Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[UncertainKitten]

Not exactly. Perhaps I am interpreting the rhetoric "alignment change" differently then you based on the information I have. I win with the town, but I am currently stuck using the suck that is WinBlows. I would like to convert to the greatness that is Linux. That is what I suspect S_B may be able to do.

Ah, yes, I think you need to be targetted tonight.

You have to be converted before you can win, correct?

[Iecerint]

That sounds reasonable. It's a little weird that Mr. Apple is apparently a Miller and you aren't, though.

[Pomegranate]

Not exactly. Perhaps I am interpreting the rhetoric "alignment change" differently then you based on the information I have. I win with the town, but I am currently stuck using the suck that is WinBlows. I would like to convert to the greatness that is Linux. That is what I suspect S_B may be able to do.

Ah, yes, I think you need to be targetted tonight.

You have to be converted before you can win, correct?

That would make sense. Put an "alignment" (if the case is that he needs to be targeted) changer in the game, as well as a role that needs it. Interesting role interaction.

But if it works correctly on Alm, would it also work on scum?

[Snow_Bunny]

@SB: What happens if you target town with your ability? Do you know?

Well, I'm not completely sure about it. It only says I will change it's alignment, so I assume that (and taking into account this is a bastard game) such town player will become scum. Luckily for me, it seems I get confirmation of the alignment change.

That was a serious post. I can change a player's alignment during night. Only one per night, though. I was thinking that it was easy to create a happy ending if mafia just outed themselves and I turned them into town. As UK said, you can test it with your weakest member.

Use it on me, please. This is not a joke.

Hmm... I'm not sure. Your reasons may be right, but what if I turn you to scum?

[Vala Mal Doran]

Wait, are you

sure

you get confirmation that the alignment was successfully changed? Did the PM state so outright? This

is

a bastard game, after all.

[AlmasterGM]

You have to be converted before you can win, correct?

My role PM doesn't explicitly say that. It merely says WinBlows sucks and it would be much cooler if I were using Linux. I inferred from this that something good for me and/or the town would happen if I was converted. It could just be flavor, but given S_B's role, I don't think that's the case.

Hmm... I'm not sure. Your reasons may be right, but what if I turn you to scum?

I don't know the precise rules text and flavor of your role so I'm not sure exactly what will happen, but a town-->scum switch doesn't really seem to fit with the flavor of the game. It would make significantly more sense for each faction to be attempting to recruit players to its side, especially given what my role PM says. Do what you think is best, though.

In any case, though, I'm afraid this debacle is destracting us from scumhunting. Let's not let all the discussion focus on this one particular issue.

Fun fact: Vaya still hasn't posted. I like my current vote.

[Iecerint]

While Vaya does often lurk D1, I think that in this instance it correlates with general inactivity on the site. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[AlmasterGM]

While Vaya does often lurk D1, I think that in this instance it correlates with general inactivity on the site. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

I don't think it has anything to do with D1 - in the last game I played with her, she was scum and lurked to victory. Moreover, even if it is D1 only, how is this even remotely acceptable?

[Iecerint]

I share your frustration, but I'm not a player who policy-lynches policy-lurkers.

Vaya was town in Moviestar Madness, and he played with reasonable activity after nearly being policy-lynched for lurking D1. Found scum, too, and ultimately survived to endgame to win for town. Something similar happened re: Vaya's behavior in I-Love-You mafia IIRC, minus finding the scum and having the town win. That's the basis of my D1-only claim. It could be that my experience with Vaya is out of the ordinary.

[Glork]

That number, split into octets is

01001001 11100111 00101110 01001010 11110011 00100000 01001011

This becomes, in decimal:

73 231 46 74 243 32 75

Any ideas what this means?

The point of a breadcrumb is that you pretty much won't be able to figure it out on your own. It commits me to my role immediately (well, part of it anyway), and allows me to claim at will without anyone saying "why did Glork wait until this point to claim?"

You're not going to figure it out, and trying to do so publicly amounts to nothing more than rolefishing.




Uncertain Kitten, do you believe that Josh is scum? Please note some points for and/or against Josh, and describe how you feel about the current wagon on him.

Vaya, if Josh were killed and turned up scum right now, which player do you think would be most likely to be his scumbuddy?


Since SB volunteered some information, we have an unsually solid starting point. I'm going to do something I don't normally do, in that I want SB to claim fully (or as much as she can), even though I currently believe her to be protown. I'm mostly interested to know what will happen if SB were to (attempt to) use her ability on a protown player. What happens if she targets somebody twice during the course of the game (i.e., can she turn someone scum and then back to town)?

This game may have a theme or subtheme about alignment changes/reveals. I think that our first step is for each of us to figure out where we stand, as individuals and as a collective. If indeed it is possible for us to convert scums to protown players without significant loss to the rest of the town, we may be able to break this game wide open.

[Iecerint]

I don't see what we have to gain from SB full-claiming. If she is scum, she'll lie. If she is not, I'm sure she can make inferences based on her flavor as competently as any of us. I suppose we might be able to glean something from her hypothetical lie, but I think that possibility is comparatively remote given Alma's softclaim.

[Glork]

Her role/ability has a very direct impact on the rest of the players, and I want to be crystal clear on what she can do, whom she can target, how many times they can target, and how this affects certain other roles, including my own and at least one other role which I am fairly certain exists in this game.

There is a very great deal to be gained from her full-claiming. I don't want her to make inferences for herself, but I want to make inferences for myself within a clearer, more appropriate context. And I'm sure that there are other players who



IMO, the main objective in any bastard game is to get a feel for what you can and cannot trust, and what you have to do to give yourself the best chance of winning. While I realize that the scums will gain from us providing more information, I also know that we can get our own bearings a little straighter, and that's huge. A town which flails about -- even a little bit -- in a bastard game is setting itself up for failure. If this weren't a bastard game, I wouldn't even consider asking for more information, and there's a decent chance I would be ranting and raving at SB for having claimed anything to begin with. But this isn't a regular game. Not by any stretch of the imagination. We need information on what's going on, and this is probably the best we're going to be able to do.

[Glork]

EBWOP:

And I'm sure that there are other players who would like to do the same as well

...completed the sentence. I got distracted by my roommate and skipped ahead to the next thought/paragraph. >.<

[Iecerint]

I suppose she can use her best judgment.

Has the Mod modded games like this in the past? If so, could you direct me to them? I want to get an idea of what to expect.

This is only the 2nd game I have modded and the first theme game.

[Fishythefish]

I agree with Glork that an SB fullclaim would be nice. Knowing the details of the role would help us think about the possible uses much better. It's up to SB whether to claim, but if she isn't going to I'd like there to be a good reason later on.

If not, I'd still like this answered -
At SB - if you used your role, it had an effect but did not change an alignment, would you feel the mod had lied to you?

[Snow_Bunny]

I'll full claim if more people ask me for it.

[Vaya]

Snow_Bunny, please just go ahead and full-claim. I'm sure most players here would want it, and I doubt there's anyone here who's that strongly against it.

While Vaya does often lurk D1, I think that in this instance it correlates with general inactivity on the site. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

I don't think it has anything to do with D1 - in the last game I played with her, she was scum and lurked to victory. Moreover, even if it is D1 only, how is this even remotely acceptable?

As Iecerint pointed out and you ignored, I haven't been posting at all on site in any of my games for the past few days, it doesn't have anything to do with my alignment in this game.

Vaya, if Josh were killed and turned up scum right now, which player do you think would be most likely to be his scumbuddy?

I don't know, I'm really not particularly feeling scum from Josh right now. If I had to make a guess if he were scum, I would think that at least one of his buddies are busing him, as I usually see happen when scum is wagoned like this. I'd guess that this would most likely be SocioPath.

[UncertainKitten]

The point of a breadcrumb is that you pretty much won't be able to figure it out on your own. It commits me to my role immediately (well, part of it anyway), and allows me to claim at will without anyone saying "why did Glork wait until this point to claim?"

You're not going to figure it out, and trying to do so publicly amounts to nothing more than rolefishing.

I'm unused to breadcrumbing as a tactic despite knowing of it's existence. I shall drop looking at it.
I thought you were giving us something useful without actually claiming hence why I wanted to decipher it.

Uncertain Kitten, do you believe that Josh is scum? Please note some points for and/or against Josh, and describe how you feel about the current wagon on him.

For the time being, Josh is the most likely candidate to be scum. The backtracking from his random vote because people called him out for it started his slide into scumminess. Especially claiming it was completely random when he actually did have a point that could be taken seriously.

Secondly, when he basically asked some very...anti town questions of snow_bunny regarding her role which would allow the scum to know if they should claim or not (in the sense that it benefits mafia).

I see no reason to change my vote.


As for SB claiming...hmm...at this point we can deduce most of the mechanics of her role. Her full claiming will not provide any more information except that which we can use to deduce if it's a game breaker. So...I support and SB fullclaim.

[AlmasterGM]

Has anyone considered the possibility that scum will kill S_B if she reveals and they determine her role is too powerful?

[Vaya]

I very much doubt that would be a problem. I'd think that scum already know enough about her role from what's been said already to know whether or not they want to keep it around.

[Vala Mal Doran]

I dunno. If there's any other aspect to her role that she hasn't revealed yet (say, she's a cop as well as a converter or something else like that that would make sense in combination with it), I'd kind of prefer she keep that under wraps. If all she does is change alignments, then sure, why not hear more about it. But as this is a bastard game, I'm kind of expecting complicated, multi-faceted power roles, so if that's the case and it were me I'd certainly only elaborate on what was immediately relevant.

[Glork]

I dunno. If there's any other aspect to her role that she hasn't revealed yet (say, she's a cop as well as a converter or something else like that that would make sense in combination with it), I'd kind of prefer she keep that under wraps.

This is actually a good point, and it hadn't crossed my mind because I assumed that SB wasn't "a cop or something" in addition to being an alignment-converter.

SB, if you have any completely unrelated abilities, I think you should keep those close-to-chest. But I'd still like to know everything you're willing to tell about this alignment-conversion thing.

[SocioPath]

Snow_Bunny, please just go ahead and full-claim.

What an excellent way to start the game with their first line in their first post.

Unvote
Vote: Vaya

[Iecerint]

I doubt SB has other abilities. If she did, she wouldn't have come out and claimed that way. But she should clearly take that into account when she makes her decision.

SP, why are you singling-out Vaya for that? Several other players have already said the same thing.

[SocioPath]

SP, why are you singling-out Vaya for that? Several other players have already said the same thing.

Because of what I said in my post.
Vaya's first line in his first post.
Strange that you felt the need to ignore the intent and try and call attention to others not Vaya.
I smell defensive buddyment.

Unvote
Vote: Iecerint