Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Found it. It's ongoing, though, so I can't link to it. Maybe in a bit.

[Fishythefish]

Gut, honestly. Something feels...not scummy about Josh despite my earlier stance. I understand if that's not enough for you.

And plus, I want to see where this Socio thing goes ^-^.

OK. I'm fine with gut reads, and I think I can see where this one comes from. This isn't really what you said originally, but I can see how one became the other.

Vaya and SSK do NOT get lynched today.
SSK, do NOT fullclaim today.
Any protective role that exists, please protect SSK from kills.
I think D2 will be quite fruitful.

Before it's asked, yes, I have official reasons to believe this is the best course of action.

This is interesting.

You are claiming that you have reason to believe that a result that SSK thinks is 99% accurate is false.

Can you give us anything about the type of your information? It seems extraordinary that you believe you know SSK's info is wrong without knowing what it is, or anything at all about Vaya.

If you are right in your suspicions as to the meaning of your role pm and SSK's investigation, is it null, or does it mean Vaya is definitely town?

I think its worth repeating that this is a partial reveal game. I do have to wonder if SSK is scum expecting to get away with this because of that.

Seems relatively unlikely, given that as yet we have no idea what "partial reveal" will mean.

I'm a great fan of SP's Post 245. I think a Vaya/Iec team is currently very likely.

Without answering Glork's rhetorical question, I'd say that the "as scum" bits might well depend on the nature of our partial reveal, which will be known after the lynch (assuming it is consistent).

Public Service Announcement:

In this game, it is a terrible idea to assume that someone is not a miller simply because they have not claimed miller. Claiming miller on another day is not a scum tell. If you are an investigative role and you got a guilty, it is highly likely that your result is wrong.

That is all.

"Highly likely" seems very strong. To my understanding, many millers do claim day 1. If I was a sanity guaranteed cop, I'd probably be about 80% sure of a guilty result.

@Iec: even if SSK's lack of memory is very surprising, I fail to see how it is a scumtell.

Currently torn between JL, Iec and Vaya.

[UncertainKitten]

You are claiming that you have reason to believe that a result that SSK thinks is 99% accurate is false.

Yes

Can you give us anything about the type of your information? It seems extraordinary that you believe you know SSK's info is wrong without knowing what it is, or anything at all about Vaya.

I don't know it's wrong. I know there is a high probabilty it is or else my role would be retardedly useless.

If you are right in your suspicions as to the meaning of your role pm and SSK's investigation, is it null, or does it mean Vaya is definitely town?

That's classified information.

"Highly likely" seems very strong. To my understanding, many millers do claim day 1. If I was a sanity guaranteed cop, I'd probably be about 80% sure of a guilty result.

Yeah, honestly, I'd lynch anyone a sanity guaranteed cop got a guilty on

[Fishythefish]

That's classified information.

It's also information which would help us make the right decision (if you being right wouldn't guarantee anything, I almost certainly want to lynch Vaya today). From my POV, it's hard to believe that the scum would benefit greatly from knowing that if you have interpreted your role right, and it applies in this case, Vaya is unconfirmed/town (mostly because I haven't got the foggiest what your role could be). If you disagree, that's fine, but as with SK I'll be wanting a good reason later on.

[UncertainKitten]

It's also information which would help us make the right decision (if you being right wouldn't guarantee anything, I almost certainly want to lynch Vaya today).

/me sighs.

I'd rather not reveal if it can definitely cause a certainty. But there is a reason I trust my result to be more beneficial than just lynching Vaya.

[Pomegranate]

I don't think we should lynch Vaya today. And I don't think that there's a pressing need for UK to claim today.

[Glork]

I don't think we should lynch Vaya today. And I don't think that there's a pressing need for UK to claim today.

That's all fine and dandy, but which players do you think are most likely to be scummy scum scums, and why?

You've done depressingly little

actual scumhunting

, IMO.

Unvote, Vote: Pomegranate

[Fishythefish]

OK. I'm happy to leave the Vaya-SSK-UK situation alone today. Both claims strike me as genuine.

unvote, vote: Iecerint

[Iecerint]

SSK's "misremembered" business is scummy because I don't think he misremembered it at all. I think he said I defended buddies as scum under the assumption that I have been scum somewhere on this site. You'll notice that he only mentioned his reasoning after UK pushed him for it, and his answer was very, very minimalistic. Then we had to pull teeth to get the whole story out of him. I think he was filling in the gaps as we requested them.

The counter possibility requires that he really did:

1. Misremember the alignment of his mason-buddy who died before him in a recent game,
2. Misremember my alignment in said game,
3. Saw fit to explain his belief and error as slowly as possible.

Which is possible (the last bit fits his meta), but remote as a whole.

[Iecerint]

Both claims strike me as genuine.

SSK's and UK's?

[Pomegranate]

I don't think we should lynch Vaya today. And I don't think that there's a pressing need for UK to claim today.

That's all fine and dandy, but which players do you think are most likely to be scummy scum scums, and why?

You've done depressingly little

actual scumhunting

, IMO.

Unvote, Vote: Pomegranate

I find it hard to do good scumhunting D1, but I try. I usually work based somewhat off of wagons, lynches, NKs (not as much), and flips. It might be harder in this game, as it's only partial reveal, but I'll manage.

I'll try to do more now, though.

[Glork]

"Try" is such a vague word.

What I've noticed is that in nearly twelve pages of gameplay, you've made approximately two original thoughts, about a dozen throwaway posts/comments, and some piggyback/check-in comments based on what other people have already said.

I don't think you've made a sincere effort to contribute to finding scum, which puts you at the very top of my list.

[Pomegranate]

I see.

By "try", I mean that I'll hopefully get a decent post up tomorrow after school.

[Iecerint]

Pome still has her RV.

Unvote

.

[AlmasterGM]

Yeah, honestly, I'd lynch anyone a sanity guaranteed cop got a guilty on

Bad idea. I liked Fishy's less extreme response a lot more. Why so confident?

I don't think we should lynch Vaya today. And I don't think that there's a pressing need for UK to claim today.

Ok, so what should we be doing?

I find it hard to do good scumhunting D1, but I try. I usually work based somewhat off of wagons, lynches, NKs (not as much), and flips. It might be harder in this game, as it's only partial reveal, but I'll manage.

I agree with Glork on the lack of content issue. In addition, this excuse is particuarily bad because it is extremely generic and doesn't even apply to this game at all - there's been plenty to analyze thus far. Get to it.

I'm putting Pom in the same crate as Vaya right now.

[Glork]

I'm putting Pom at a much, much higher level. Vaya has contributed. He has given his thoughts on players, and he has made direct, game-relevant attacks/interactions with others.

Alma, you have this pre-disposition against Vaya, but I'd like you to compare
Pom's posts to Vaya's posts and look at quality, not quantity.

[Glork]

EBWOP: Vaya's posts

Hotlink fail.

[AlmasterGM]

Point very well taken.

Unvote. Vote: Pomegranate

[Vala Mal Doran]

Do you think we should lynch one of them today.

>_>

I'm not sure how I feel

There could be a Windows cult versus the free Linux users, and SB being someone who can distribute Linux to brainwashed windows users. I'm guessing that the leaders of each cult can't be changed though :S.

This makes sense to me. What if there is no scum, and this game only qualifies as mafia because we are somehow led to believe there is, and it's really just a battle between Winblows/Linux/Crapple/whatever other factions have been mentioned? (I don't know much about bastard games on this site, but having no actual mafia to be a not-unheard of reason for calling a game bastard -- Pokerface's Bad Reveal Mafia comes to mind.)

@Everyone: Without giving away your role, do you think the above is at all a reasonable assumption, and if it is, should we still lynch today?

@Iec: Do you think that if SSK realized he was mistaken before he let on that he was mistaken, that he's scum? Or do you think it's more curious than scummy?

@Fishy: Can you elaborate in your own words why you think a Vaya/Iec team is likely? Do you have anything to add to SP's thoughts on the matter?

[Fishythefish]

@Fishy: Can you elaborate in your own words why you think a Vaya/Iec team is likely? Do you have anything to add to SP's thoughts on the matter?

Not much. While I dislike just using another player's argument, I find it very convincing - Iec's play reads like someone trying to derail the Vaya wagon, with his suspicions of SSK, subsequent attacks on SSK over the misremembering issue (which I still don't buy. The picture Iec is trying to sell is of SSK deciding to randomly throw out an accusation of defending buddies, and hoping it's true. I don't see anyone being that stupid), and his easy acceptance of UK's claim. The only thing I'd add is that I believed SSK was telling the truth, and I think that was the natural reaction (unprompted scum claims on day 1 just don't seem very likely)- so I find Iec's disbelief quite hard to swallow. Less relevantly, I feel similarly about his reaction to SB's claim.

[Vala Mal Doran]

but having no actual mafia *seems to be

Fix'd.

[Fishythefish]

There could be a Windows cult versus the free Linux users, and SB being someone who can distribute Linux to brainwashed windows users. I'm guessing that the leaders of each cult can't be changed though :S.

This makes sense to me. What if there is no scum, and this game only qualifies as mafia because we are somehow led to believe there is, and it's really just a battle between Winblows/Linux/Crapple/whatever other factions have been mentioned? (I don't know much about bastard games on this site, but having no actual mafia to be a not-unheard of reason for calling a game bastard -- Pokerface's Bad Reveal Mafia comes to mind.)

@Everyone: Without giving away your role, do you think the above is at all a reasonable assumption, and if it is, should we still lynch today?

I'd say it's a possibility, but definitely not a "reasonable assumption". It's an attempt to outguess the mod, in a bastard game, on next to no evidence.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Ugh, nevermind, you're absolutely right. Your response just prompted me to re-read my role PM, and it does in fact mention town. Furthermore, Slysly quoted a vanilla townie PM at the start of the game. Durr hurr, L2read VMD. I just had a real idiot moment there. ._.;

[MafiaSSK]

I see.

By "try", I mean that I'll hopefully get a decent post up tomorrow after school.

Only one? Will you then just go back on to piggybacking?

[UncertainKitten]

Bad idea. I liked Fishy's less extreme response a lot more. Why so confident?

Because it's far too easy to lose a scum lynch just because they claim miller. I should know.

I've gotten away with it before.

What if there is no scum, and this game only qualifies as mafia because we are somehow led to believe there is, and it's really just a battle between Winblows/Linux/Crapple/whatever other factions have been mentioned? (I don't know much about bastard games on this site, but having no actual mafia to be a not-unheard of reason for calling a game bastard -- Pokerface's Bad Reveal Mafia comes to mind.)

Cults are still scum. I'd argue a cult game would still be mafia, just not the greatest form of it.

@Everyone: Without giving away your role, do you think the above is at all a reasonable assumption, and if it is, should we still lynch today?

I think it REASONABLE, but...not necessarily true. We don't have enough information. We should probably treat the game like mafia and keep the idea that it could involve cults near the forefront of our thoughts without letting it dictate everything we do.

EDIT WHILE READING OTHER POSTS: Wait, did you mean that it's cult vs. town or that we all are fragmented factions? I meant the first one is reasonable.

Ugh, nevermind, you're absolutely right. Your response just prompted me to re-read my role PM, and it does in fact mention town. Furthermore, Slysly quoted a vanilla townie PM at the start of the game. Durr hurr, L2read VMD. I just had a real idiot moment there. ._.;

To be fair, I've quoted a Vanilla PM at the start of my games where there existed no vanilla townie. But yeah, there is definitely a town, lol.