Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[MafiaSSK]

/confirm

[MafiaSSK]

vote UK

Fun times.

[MafiaSSK]

Unvote, Vote Vala

Why not participate in a wagon on the most scummiest person so far?

[MafiaSSK]

Wait, are you

sure

you get confirmation that the alignment was successfully changed? Did the PM state so outright? This

is

a bastard game, after all.

Still waiting on a reply to this from S_B. Just sayin'.

I prefer not to take a side on the SP/Vaya thing just yet; neither particularly jumps out at me at this time. I realize it's page 7, but I still feel like not much of note has happened.

I'm taking SP's side. Clearly Vaya is scum.

[MafiaSSK]

I'm taking SP's side. Clearly Vaya is scum.

Vala Mal Doran - 1 - MafiaSSK

??

Why does your vote not reflect your assertion?

FOS: MafiaSSK

Been too lazy to change it.

Unvote vote Vaya

[MafiaSSK]

I'm taking SP's side. Clearly Vaya is scum.

...SSK...I've heard you can be a useful protown player. I understand that people sometimes give you a hard time due to your meta. So, I'll ask nicely. Is there anything else you currently think with regards to this game? Perhaps an opinion on Snow Bunny's claim, Josh's responses to my pressures...really, anything is good. As far as I remember, this is all you've given so far.

Actually, if you could elaborate on why SP has the right of the situation, I'd also appreciate it. Thank you ^-^.

In regards to SB's claim, it's perfectly valid. A bit early but valid.
Josh's responses I think are fine. Definitely not overreacting.

SP has the right of the situation because Vaya's obv scum No, I will not elaborate more on that matter.

[MafiaSSK]

Too lazy? It only took, what, 16 character strokes? >_>

Yup.

[MafiaSSK]

...SSK...I've heard you can be a useful protown player.

lolwat.

The only remotely scummy thing Vaya has done is the delayed SP vote, and even that's a stretch. I'd vote SP, except that I don't want JL to get off the hook due to V/LA. <_<

Would also like to hear SSK explain why SP isn't full of crap.

So Iec is Vaya's scum partner, awesome.

[MafiaSSK]

lolwat.

In TRADTiMM he was the ONLY TOWNIE that actually caught scum. He was also a role that for all intents and purposes wasn't actually IN the game but interacted with it (Tar game, etc), but when it came time for him to deal with stuff, he asploded and killed scum. (Suicide bomb was part of his role)

And that was the only town caused scum kill. I'm assuming he has the ability to reason out who's scum. He just isn't in the habit of telling us what he's thinking. I'd almost be willing to treat him like chamber, but I'd appreciate him giving information if he so deigns.

This is why I like being invisible. I have a hard time pointing out specific scum tells that tell who is scum.

[MafiaSSK]

SP has the right of the situation because Vaya's obv scum No, I will not elaborate more on that matter.

Is this due to official information or just a desire to protect certain scumtells you feel are true? Or is even that asking too much?

Official information.

[MafiaSSK]

So Iec is Vaya's scum partner, awesome.

Ah, but doesn't that make me scum with them? I'm technically defending Vaya as well by attacking SP, but I don't agree with Vaya's latest action. In ways, I'm worse than Iec because I haven't committed to either.

To attempt to rectify that I'd probably pressure SP over Vaya at this time if I didn't want more from Josh.

Yeah, but you don't defend your scum partners that hard.

[MafiaSSK]

This is why I like being invisible. I have a hard time pointing out specific scum tells that tell who is scum.

lolirl.

?

[MafiaSSK]

SP has the right of the situation because Vaya's obv scum No, I will not elaborate more on that matter.

Is this due to official information or just a desire to protect certain scumtells you feel are true? Or is even that asking too much?

Official information.

Okay, I want you to elaborate on that, SSK. You're claiming to have role-related reasons to believe I'm scum?

Yes.

[MafiaSSK]

This is why I like being invisible. I have a hard time pointing out specific scum tells that tell who is scum.

lolirl.

?

You're funny.

Or were you being serious?

Joking.

[MafiaSSK]

SP has the right of the situation because Vaya's obv scum No, I will not elaborate more on that matter.

Is this due to official information or just a desire to protect certain scumtells you feel are true? Or is even that asking too much?

Official information.

Okay, I want you to elaborate on that, SSK. You're claiming to have role-related reasons to believe I'm scum?

Yes.

Alright, as far as I'm concerned, you're either drawing the wrong conclusions from the info you have, or are lying. Please share with us exactly what it is you know so I can figure out which it is.

1. This is exactly what scum would do.
2.I do not want to be night killed for the reason for this info.

[MafiaSSK]

I have a hard time buying that SSK has role-based reasons to find Vaya scummy. Vaya hasn't claimed anything. It would only make sense if SSK were told up-front "PS VAYA IS SCUM."

Or I'm just not creative enough to figure it out.

And yet there is a reason.

[MafiaSSK]

This is why I like being invisible. I have a hard time pointing out specific scum tells that tell who is scum.

Hmm. Not sure I like this, and I have too small a sample size to determine if this is alright. But, overall, I want to see how this goes. I think that we can definitely get some use out of you (sorry, that sounds so condescending :S). I'd rather not see any meta based attacks on SSK this game. Remember the tale of the North Wind and the Sun ^-^.

This would be nice.

Yeah, but you don't defend your scum partners that hard.

How often have you played with me as scum anyway ^-^? Rather, scum with actual scumbuddies . That said, have you noticed this trend with Iec (more liable to heavily defend a buddy?)

A few times. One example would be Time Spiral Mafia. Yes I have noticed this trend with Iec.

Okay, I want you to elaborate on that, SSK. You're claiming to have role-related reasons to believe I'm scum?

I agree with this, actually. But! I am not for a full claim. I'd like you to determine what is a safe amount of information to impart, SSK?

Fine. It involved a rapid action in Tar's terms.

[MafiaSSK]

I've never been scum on this site.

I think you're more likely to get a meta-based defense of SSK than a meta-based attack on SSK. Actually, you've kinda already offered one of those. <_<

I could have sworn you were scum in ILY Mafia.

[MafiaSSK]

1. This is exactly what scum would do.
2.I do not want to be night killed for the reason for this info.

Do you believe that your role is worth more than one caught scum? Answer VERY carefully, and please don't forget that in general, a 12 player game has 3 scum and 9 town, making each scum far more valuable to their team than any townie.

Actually, thinking on it, scratch that question. Obviously you think it is or you aren't certain of your results.

Hmm...I've changed my mind SSK. Don't claim anything. I'm not sure if I'll vote Vaya yet. I'll have to assess both your behaviors throughout the day.

Meh. I guess not. Now that I think about it more.

[MafiaSSK]

A few times. One example would be Time Spiral Mafia. Yes I have noticed this trend with Iec.

Ok, but Iec says he has no scum experience on this site.

And yet I misremembered him being scum.

Fine. It involved a rapid action in Tar's terms.

You have mostly persuaded me. One last question that you may deign not to answer without me worrying. If you were to place a percentage confidence in your results, what would you put it as?

99%.

[MafiaSSK]

I could have sworn you were scum in ILY Mafia.

Hmm. OK. I did survive until the end of ILY, and I was big on SSK's D2 lynch, so I could maybe see SSK misremembering that, especially if he didn't check in post-game much. Lemme check.

@SSK: Is Iec as likely to be Vaya's scumbuddy with this information coming to light?

I guess not.

[MafiaSSK]

I checked ILY post-game, and Slicey never posted in the post-game. It could that he just never checked back but was pretty (mistakenly) certain of my alignment there.

What's a rapid action? I assume it means that he could use it at any time (e.g. Daycop)?

And get an immeadiate result.

[MafiaSSK]

Out of curiosity, who did you remember me protecting in ILY, SSK? O_o

Elvis.

[MafiaSSK]

Out of curiosity, who did you remember me protecting in ILY, SSK? O_o

Elvis.

Man, my memory of that game was shotty. Neither of you were scum.

[MafiaSSK]

I see.

By "try", I mean that I'll hopefully get a decent post up tomorrow after school.

Only one? Will you then just go back on to piggybacking?

[MafiaSSK]

Pom, use word then. You have no excuse not to make a better post than that. In fact, for pressure

unvote vote Pom

[MafiaSSK]

Bah! Stereotypes! You can't just put girls and guys in boxes like that

You can't say that males and females generally don't have similar playstyles.
Adel had a very masculine, analytical playstyle even before he was a male (that is, onsite )

Its no absolute though. (as I would see a box as being as)

Seriously? hmm...I...don't like this. It makes me want to get Pom's flip. But I really want Iec's as well .

Shes a 13 year old girl in school with an older sister on the site. Pressure and people hounding her might be a bit overwhelming to the average 13 year old.
And in depth psychoanalysis and playstyle descriptions isn't something I would expect from her either. This goes with the ASL meta, and her site meta I have on her.

I am 15. I was 13 when I started out on the site. It is fine to be pressured. Don't stereotype kids as wimps.

[MafiaSSK]

Don't see it working. I don't see how my gender has factored into this actually.

I'm aware. Course, if you want to keep complimenting me, go ahead ^-^.

Also notice how virtually every response to a part of my post starts with a short, snippet of a sentence.
Was that something that happened on purpose in that you had planned?
Or did it just sort of turn out that way?
Now, its not uncommon for you to have a such response, but look at the concentration.

SP your case makes no fricken sense.

[MafiaSSK]

Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.

[MafiaSSK]

Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.

Did you actually read the post?

Yeah, you gave how he was hypocritical about posting little content. I am saying that you were mainly focusing on him being hypocritical and not on him lurking.

[MafiaSSK]

Pom, your post is just a super extended OMGUS. Being hypocritical is not a scumtell. IIoA is outdated.

Did you actually read the post?

Yeah, you gave how he was hypocritical about posting little content. I am saying that you were mainly focusing on him being hypocritical and not on him lurking.

I said that he lurked,

and

that he called people out on lurking, which was hypocritical.

Then aren't you being hypocritical too?

[MafiaSSK]

Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]

Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.

So you admit you're being hypocritical by your own logic?

The only other part of your case is IIoA which as I've already stated is outdated.

[MafiaSSK]

Top scum pick: Alm.

At first glance, this may seem like OMGUS. But it's not, and let me explain why. [...]

Also, there is more to the case. It still doesn't seem like you've actually read it.

So you admit you're being hypocritical by your own logic?

Not really. But I see how you could think so bit.

But according to your own logic,

Being hypocritical is not a scumtell.

Yes, but that's my own logic. But by your own it seems you think hypocrisy is a scumtell and you're thus calling yourself scum.

The only other part of your case is IIoA which as I've already stated is outdated.

Why?

It's an old wikitell and meta has changed from such.

[MafiaSSK]

I have an opinion on the subject, but I want Pome to give hers first. I'll say that I think your SB interaction is very important and Pome appears to have minimized it except to point out that it wasn't scumhunting.

Why did you want to hide this much?

[MafiaSSK]

I think we should let alma get the alleged alignment change. It will help town.

[MafiaSSK]

@Glork: The vote was just to pressure you, to get you to post something.

Unvote

.
.

Do you even know who Glork is? Do you not see the award below his name? There is no way this is the real reason for your vote.

[MafiaSSK]

JL lynch will tell a lot of information about others. However, it seems there is enough interest in the lynch already for me not to vote.

[MafiaSSK]

By this game's ruleset, JL can lurk another day before he's prodded.

So we lynch him regardless?

[MafiaSSK]

You'd think he'd at least pop in and apologize for the Mod being unresponsive or something. <_<

For real.

[MafiaSSK]

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

#1. Faraday
#2. MAybe UK for being slightly dodgy

[MafiaSSK]

To you and any other investigative roles: It's a BASTARD game. I don't think anyone can be 99% sure of anything.

Don't assume my role is investigative. I can be pretty sure about this given the very NATURE of the role.

You're right, I should have said information roles.

You don't know my role then, now do you?

[MafiaSSK]

Also, why isn't your DC guilty on your scumlist when the player undermining said DC is? O_o_O

Because that would be a role based reason to vote him and thusly he's not on my list. And of course anyone who tries to undermine the truth is scummy.

[MafiaSSK]

Is Faraday scummy because of something that's happened since he replaced in, or for JL?

Scummy for the claim and for JL.

[MafiaSSK]

I have very little time. Can someone please summarize what I need to answer to?

[MafiaSSK]

#2. Maybe UK for being slightly dodgy

Dodgy? Could you elaborate?

Because that would be a role based reason to vote him and thusly he's not on my list. And of course anyone who tries to undermine the truth is scummy.

Does your role PM confirm your sanity in such a way that you KNOW it's the truth?

That would take care of my question for you, too, which is whether your flavor implies sanity or whatever accounts for the 99% number.

At #1. I just feel that UK is hiding too much. I don't know how.
At #2. It could not be the truth but I really think it is.

[MafiaSSK]

#2. Maybe UK for being slightly dodgy

Dodgy? Could you elaborate?

Because that would be a role based reason to vote him and thusly he's not on my list. And of course anyone who tries to undermine the truth is scummy.

Does your role PM confirm your sanity in such a way that you KNOW it's the truth?

That would take care of my question for you, too, which is whether your flavor implies sanity or whatever accounts for the 99% number.

At #1. I just feel that UK is hiding too much. I don't know how.
At #2. It could not be the truth but I really think it is.

Also for #2. IT's not really the flavor as much as my role implies my sanity

[MafiaSSK]

Then why aren't you, ye know, pushing for your presumed-legit guilty on Vaya?

UK didn't want to lynch either of us today QED I don't push for Vaya

[MafiaSSK]

One request for Phate. can you please give a list of suspicions before you get lynched?

[MafiaSSK]

Shouldn't we just stick to one wagon two days away from deadline?

[MafiaSSK]

So I would like to note, that my role did not say that I could convert alignments. However, this is due to different circumstances.

[MafiaSSK]

Less than majority lynches are never good

This is fact.

Agreed

[MafiaSSK]

SSK needs to die.

Parroting what I said, (which is essentially a more confirming parrot of someone else.) SSK's current vote is in no way, shape, or form...helpful.
Vote is on Pom, originally to create pressure, then had a back and forth with Pom.
When questioned about scummiest people, Pom wasn't even on the list. In fact, he just half-assedly through names out there. (UK for being dodgy?)
Also is 99% certain of role-based information on someone else, and yet doesn't pursue it in the least. Essentially, I originally make a case saying Vaya being scum, SSK says 'yeah Socio is right', and then moves on never thinking about it again.

1.Pom is a good vote.
2. Yes, I did throw together the list half-assedly. I'll admit that and that's the reason why Pom was not on the list.
3. Yes, 99% information that can be proved for the right lynch tomorrow with the help of FL.

[MafiaSSK]

Of these two lynches Phate seems the best. If only not to have a nolynch

Unvote vote Phate

. His claim seems to be the worst. I just don't find to have any true and strong scumtells on either.

[MafiaSSK]

We have to explicitly vote NoLynch to have a NoLynch. I just posted this on the previous page. Are you reading the thread?

Nice that you picked, though.

No lynch being defined as a bad lynch, of course.

[MafiaSSK]

Kay. Winblows hacker for Linux. I can use a script to see someone's alignment. Once I have used that script,which I did yesterday,I turn have a red flag set on my computer and thusly investigate Guilty. This is why I am sure Vaya is guilty, it would be the most bastardish thing for a mod to do for my result not to be sane.

[MafiaSSK]

I forgot to

Vote Vaya

.

[MafiaSSK]

Hey, I'm alive.

Iecerint, did you honestly miscount, or were you trying to deceive someone into thinking I was that close to lynch?

We're massclaiming today. I adamantly refuse to lynch anyone before we massclaim.

During the massclaim, claim as much of the following as the mod will allow you to: Rolename, traits and abilities of your role, flavor, affiliation, targets, results, and anything that's happened to you. If there's something else relevant I've forgotten, claim that too. Everyone should go ahead and send claims into the mod now to check to see if they're alright, so we don't have to wait for mod permission every time.

Since MafiaSSK has already claimed today, we can popcorn from there. MSSK, choose someone else to claim.

@Everyone: Feel free to claim whatever you like about your roles, just make sure and paraphrase well. Don't quote your role PMs.

Why should we MC on Day 2?

[MafiaSSK]

Phate, do you really think that all bastard games are breakable?

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, I have a few questions for you.

1. Is you ability one-shot? If not, would you be able to investigate yourself to check your sanity?

2. Why did you not claim miller Day 1? Do you not usually claim when you are a miller?

1. Yes, it is.
2. I thought breadcrumbing would be enough

[MafiaSSK]

Unvote
Vote: Almaster

I still don't like that request to be converted Day 1, and his unusual sureness that he wouldn't be converted to scum. Given that, and Glork's claim of having a similar line in his role PM that very well may have been hinting to the scumteam or an attempt to buy his buddy a night, he seems like a very good lynch right now.

Read up to this point and have a question which may or may not be asked after this post. If it is please ignore this: But why switch to Alma when you think I'm fake?

[MafiaSSK]

Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think that Glork's interaction and 'buddying' with me is more likely to be scum to scum than it is scum to town. Scum side with people they know are town all the time, and Glork-scum would have plenty of motive to side with me-town like this. It makes him look good not pushing the mislynch if I were lynched and I flipped town, and on the off-chance he would die first, his interaction with me could help incriminate me and help my lynch along.

I agree with you if you and SSK are both town (e.g. SSK is an insane daycop, and UK was roleblocked), but I disagree with you if we're operating under the assumption that one of you is scum. Not that that's an impossibility.

For the record, I actually don't think it's unlikely that we're both town, that SSK is sanity challenged and Kitten was blocked.

Alright, ignore my last post

[MafiaSSK]

It looked like he thought you implied 'gotcha scum', and he responded with 'oh well when I use my role I'll go guilty thats why'.

It sounded like he was trying to explain your result on him because he thought your 'no result' was a guilty at the time.

How does no result=guilty in any scenario?

[MafiaSSK]

Not crazy about the one-shot revelation. Not crazy about putting off the Miller claim either, come to think of it, especially given that Fishy had already claimed.

SSK, have you ever been a Miller in a completed game on the site?

I don't believe so.

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, where did you crumb that you were a miller?

By me being 99% sure of my sanity. Meh, I guess it was a bad crumb.

[MafiaSSK]

SSK, have you ever been a Miller in a completed game on the site?

Also, please answer this.

It takes me time to read posts.

[MafiaSSK]

Could someone explain how SSK's breadcrumb suggests miller?

It doesn't suggest "miller," but it does suggest "something is up." The miller claim fits with that. The crumb is "I have reason to believe that my results are accurate." The ultimate reason was that the information comes at a price (millerhood).

SSK, was the millerhood instant? Did you know you would specifically become a miller when you used your ability?

Yes it was. Yes, I did.

[MafiaSSK]

OK. I think the side-effects of all that means the scum are here:

MafiaSSK
SocioPath
Fishythefish
Pomegranate

I believe everyone else is largely cleared given VayaGlorkAlma-Town.

Woah ,what? Could you please explain every one of those?

[MafiaSSK]

Could you please explain every one of those?

It's not that those players are particularly scummy, but rather that everyone else is largely cleared:

1. Glork is town because he was probably a death miller (GDM).
2. Alma is probably not scum because his reaction to Faraday's gag rule is consistent with his claim. (The numbers post still bothers me, though, tbh. I really expected it to be explained when Alma claimed.)
3. Vaya is not scum for pointing out the situation with Alma in a circumstance where no one had picked up on GDM even after I'd mentioned it.
4. Given all that, UK has to be town, because there was no reason for her to stop the Vaya lynch D1 if she was scum.
5. Phate/tubby is town because of something that happened N1 and early D2. I will elaborate on this later.
6. I think SB is probably town because of her claim on Phate. She claimed it before I intimated any insight, so she cleared Phate, Cop/converter.

That leaves the 4 players on my list.

1. SSK is only town if he is insane AND UK was roleblocked as far as I can tell.
2. SP looks bad in my eyes for the unwarranted Vaya attack D1, and for vacuity.
3. FTF's D1 miller claim looks weird in light of all the gag orders elsewhere. Also, he's been a pretty on-the-backburner player all game. The only post of his I can remember is the one justifying that he wasn't likely to be 3rd party on account of his checking guilty. O_o
4. Pome is just really vacuous, even moreso than FTF. There's no disconnect in her claim, though. Come to think of it, there isn't any claim at all.

There are some holes in my theory:
1. No one is insane. This makes UK's role seem pretty silly. It could be that Faraday was insane, or that UK's role is a red-herring. But this still bothers me.
2. Alma and Glork's big early-game "breadcrumb" posts don't make any sense with their roles. I also don't like that Vaya ignored them in his post, but the GDM evidence is pretty solid IMO.

If there are holes in your theory, then why be so sure of it?

[MafiaSSK]

[quote="AlmasterGM"]The more I evaluate SSK's claim, the shadier it looks. I think Pom needs to claim and/or die today, though.

I like Fishy's last post. In retrospect, the one thing I don't understand is why his Miller claim did not have the no-claim-on-D1 clause like Glork's and mine did. I suppose this could have something to do with him being Apple and not Windows, but I'm not sure.[/quote
Can you describe how my role is looking shadier?

[MafiaSSK]

Pomegranate, who are your top three suspects right now? Who do you think we should lynch today?

FTF- He hasn't done much, and claimed miller early. I smell scum. Also, his miller claim doesn't fit with Alma's and Glork's PM clauses (assuming GlokDM, which seems extremely likely right now)

In this game, we have three claimed millers (including GDM), and one role verging on miller (SSK). Do you really think that the minor variation of my role from those of the others points to me being scum?

Can you expand on "he hasn't done much" please? In particular, why does it make you think I'm scum?

@SSK: if you had got an "innocent" result, would you check guilty?

I need to think about whether or not I want iec to claim.

Yes

[MafiaSSK]

Blurgh, and why aren't we lynching Vaya?

[MafiaSSK]

vote: Vaya

There was a strong iec-Vaya connection day 1, and I don't see anything to weaken it.

Can you point it out?

[MafiaSSK]

HEY WAIT! DIDN'T YOU GET A GUILTY ON VAYA, SSK? WHY THE HELL ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM?

Not defense, mainly curiousity

[MafiaSSK]

First case

Apparently I cleared Iec because I couldn't find anything outside the Vaya connections. That was stupid.

It was stupid. Now, should I vote UK, or Vaya...?

The person who has had a guilty investigation on them. Speaking of which, I don't think I'm voting Vaya

Vote Vaya

[MafiaSSK]

Why are you rehashing an old case that I've already responded to?

[MafiaSSK]

Fine, maybe I haven't. First though, shouldn't we massclaim?

[MafiaSSK]

Of course, SP just had to be the SK. I could have killed you and won the game. Ah well.