Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[wolframnhart]

Sorry for the late post all, busy holiday. Well it looks like i missed RV stage, so i won't bother starting off with that.

1)Plum? It's been awhile since i played when did i play a game with you?
2)Cobalt, why did you decide to start a wagon, and why was it on Saberwolf?
3)Cobalt may have started the wagon, but it interests me on why Vaya immediately jumped on it and voted for Saber as well, and then has been quiet, so

Vote: Vaya

I would really like to hear his/her answer.

I can see why MafiaSSK would say we should ignore the voice, at this time we really don't know what the voice means, could be nothing, could be some communication like Cobalt said, yet to me it seemed Cobalt has been somewhat role fishing (and yes i know this has already been talked about) because at first he told Gorrad and Plum to think about their roles and what the voice might mean, and now says it might be a communication thing between players, and it just seems like a soft way of trying to feel out power roles, so for now

FoS Cobalt

since I am not sure if it's a total scum tell since Cobalt has tried to explain himself fairly well.

[wolframnhart]

Wolf, Discode was the one to tell Plum and Gorrad to think about what the voice means. I attacked him for it.
I picked saber for a wagon because his was the first name I thought of.

Sorry Cobalt, my mistake there. I would still like to hear from Vaya though on why he/she jumped on the wagon.

[wolframnhart]

Mod Scene 1:

The remaining people in Hollow Bastion stand in the town square, attempting to figure out who has been influenced by the darkness. All of a sudden, a sharp chill blows through the square. Then everything goes black. A split second later, the darkness is gone, as is the chill. But something has...changed. You just can't figure out what.

Vote Count does not reset.

And as this is important, the above mod scene is connected to me.

Dis, why did you feel it was important that you tell everyone this scene was connected to you when your name is not mentioned, making it seem very important (though never specifying if it is important to the town or just to you) and then when people ask you to clarify you stall saying you will get to it eventually?

I don't think the voice matters much right now, it can't really help/hurt is either way so early as we have no idea what to make of it. I would guess scum, though.

Sir Chris what makes you think the voice would be scum?

[wolframnhart]

Ok it has been awhile since i played kingdom hearts, and had only played one and two, but how is releasing darkness a good thing? To me the mod scene seems to imply more harm then good, and I do not understand Discode why you used a power that you have no idea if it influenced anyone but yourself, so just because you changed your appearance (which doesn't state if that helps the town or not) and now claim you are a miller. I can see why Gorrad and ray would want a full claim from you at this time because the whole thing seems very fishy.

[wolframnhart]

I can agree with Kdub, and for now I am goign to

unvote

and wait to hear from Dis.

Zwet, Do you have anything real to give to the conversation? Your first post was a vote against me which i have no idea if it is serious or not, and then the next post by you is two words? How about some input about the current situation.

[wolframnhart]

As much as players have posted the storyline etc about KH, why is it that miller is the only thing that fits for Dis?? With the creepiness of the scene, the whole "chill" thing and all that doesn't make me think miller, I would be more inclined to think something BAD happened, and miller doesn't make me think bad. Maybe Dis used whatever power he had and didn't know the mod would post a scene like that, so he panicked and claimed the scene had something to do with him, which since no one has countered that then i suppose it's true.

Vaya you are defending Dis pretty heavily here, even talking about the whole Riku thing before Dis full claims, and that just reeks of either buddying up to try and buy town points from someone, or scum partner.

So I ask, WHY does miller make so much sense? Please someone explain this to me, why couldn't he have somehow become a serial killer or something like that? Or am i completely off base and this Ansem guy everyone was talking about ended up being good?

[wolframnhart]

There's far too much flooding of information pretending to be contributing to the game itself.

That's probably the worst of Zwet's three posts IMHO. Even with any amount of flooding of info, whether he believes it does or doesn't contribute to the game, he is not contributing at all.

As much as I would like to hear from Dis, a lot of discussion has been around him and he has yet to respond, maybe a little pressure will get Zwet to respond/participate.

vote Zwetschenwasser

[wolframnhart]

I will help the voice, at least it's thoughts about Dis's claim mirror my own.

[wolframnhart]

Might be an honest mistake.

LoL why is this guy not lynched yet?

[wolframnhart]

@mod: I am only voting for DeathNote, you have me voting for foilist13 as well. Thanks.

Also, if DisCode has not picked up his prod yet, could we look into a replacement?

I'm not as familiar with zwet's playstyle as you guys are so I'll wait for a proper long post from him before making an opinion.

Durr... >_>

Also, DisCode still has 48 hours or so to respond to the prod.

I think Dis's prod time is almost up (since this was posted on Wed), so we more then likely are not going to hear from him, looks like we will be hearing from a replacement.

[wolframnhart]

This ISN'T his typical town play. He's lurking a ton and has made nil contribution to the game. As town he at least tries to help.

This.

More zwet votes plz.

So you realize a policy lynch is a crappy reason, so you just happily join someone else's.

So you realize you still haven't given much reason as to why we shouldn't lynch you.

[wolframnhart]

I think we're nearing Zwetclaim time.

Yes cause Zwet is really going to be around to claim.

@everyone voting Zwet: What do you hope to accomplish with lynching Zwet? What if his is town? What if he is scum?

I personally am hoping with zwet to lynch scum, he has done nothing to defend himself or really contribute.

If he is town, from there analyze the wagon and whatever happens at night and go from there on day 2.

If he is scum as i believe, still analyze the wagon, and those not on the wagon, and hope to catch a scum partner.

[wolframnhart]

Hey all, sorry for the lack of posting on my part, I put this game on back burner (which is sad since I am only playing one other) and i need to catch up and re-read some of the pages. Is there anything anyone wants me to talk about/give opinion about inparticular?

[wolframnhart]

Hey all, sorry for the lack of posting on my part, I put this game on back burner (which is sad since I am only playing one other) and i need to catch up and re-read some of the pages. Is there anything anyone wants me to talk about/give opinion about inparticular?

You're #2 on DGB's scumlist.

This means you're probably going to die.

So sorry.

Doesn't really bother me if DGB thinks I am scum, he might change his mind if I am alive as the game goes on, he might not, we shall see.

[wolframnhart]

Sorry, SHE then, my bad.

[wolframnhart]

I'm still good with a Zwet lynch for a few reasons:

1)He has been extremely anti-town, and in my view more scum anti-town then crappy town playing anti-town
2)He refuses to contribute anything to the game
3)I can agree with DGB, if Zwet comes up scum his mates were more then likely bussing him, if he flips town, then the votes agaisnt him can still be analyzed to find scum because in a game this big of course there will be scum on a wagon.
4)He claimed vanilla, then threw the name Kairi out there kind of as an after thought, and STILL hasn't said much else concerning why we shouldn't vote/lynch him etc.

[wolframnhart]

Wow, wake up, come back from work, find Zwet was day vigged. Big thank you to ice for that one, saves us from what would have now obviously been a mislynch, and we can now continue day 1 with a cleanish slate and much to work off of.

Question, what is with the hayker wagon forming? The heck am i missing here?

[wolframnhart]

Ok I understand the Hayker wagon a lil more now, his post have basically been trying to ignore the voice, talk about the game (though it was asked) and then really nothing after that.

Sir Pent, why are you fosing ice for using a day vig ability when:
a)Had zweet flipped scum we would have had one less scum and still be able to use todays votes to hopefully lynch another.
b)You were ready to hammer Zwet in the first place.

And if you believe vaya, ice, and plum are scum, why are you not voting one of them or trying to build a case? Seems to me you are using the names of some people who have been talked about in a possible scum manner and have no real evidence against them.

[wolframnhart]

As can I, though I definitely want an answer to my previous question regarding Hayker's wagon.

Vote: SirPent

.

If there's two things I've learned in my time here, one is to trust DGB. ESPECIALLY if she's scum. It makes games so much more fun.

Why would you trust someone and use the wording "Especially if she's scum"? that just seems odd to me.

[wolframnhart]

Im back from my last minute V/LA, I should have posted something saying i got a call and had to go out of town and just got back, i thought the mod would but i see nothing was said. I will be doing a re-read (ugh again) and posting either tonight or tomorrow.

[wolframnhart]

DoS, you gave your list of top five mafia, but yet you are voting one of your bottom two. You say you have given extensive thought on Sir Chris and raider, what thoughts are those? Can you point out posts that have made you think that way? It seems odd you are targeting two people out if the 5 that you say followed chris, but you are not voting chris, or really giving much of a case against him, just a round about one through other players.

[wolframnhart]

Cuz he is at L-1. DoS, you are at L-1, your lynch is being called for, yet you are not going to point out anything more with your case against chris? You are just going to roll over and take it?

[wolframnhart]

Reckoner are you just going to vote DoS because no one (in your opinion) is listening to you or do you really feel DoS is scum?

[wolframnhart]

He has clearly indicated that it is the former.

Ok good point, i did ask a redundant question there didn't i?

What i was trying to get at is did Reckoner at any time really feel DoS was scum? I know the dead line is coming up, but to switch a vote like that when a person is so heavily insistent on another seems odd. It also seems more like a safe vote, he is not hammering, he has put DoS at L-2 i believe, and certain things about the last few pages makes me wonder about what might happen tonight.

[wolframnhart]

I was wrong.

xRECKONERx is town.

I agree with this. He comes off more as frustrated townie.

This.

[wolframnhart]

Mod: Can we please have a prod or replacement for Modvoice Sajin?

So....Reckoner's one-post-which-negates-all-suspicion worked, but DoS's didn't? Double-standard much ><

I'm going to argue that a bit more. Reckoner's been scummy to DGB since she entered to game, but suddenly one post negates all that? Now, DGB has the scumdar of a ferret on Ritalin (focused but changing focus rapidly), so for her? I can understand the abrupt change. But Saber and Wolf, WTF? Are you just following DGB blindly?

DoS has done nothing to improve my opinion of him.

No Gorrad actually it was not just because of DGb's post. I had been feeling that Reck was more frustrated townie then anything for a bit now, maybe I have not played enough games, and it has been awhile since i started playing again, but I just don't see scum acting quite like he(she?) has when there really is no amount of pressure or wagon on them personally.

I am still trying to decide on DoS though. He has posted more since his wagon got bigger, and is now at L-1 i think?, but to put someone on his scum list after they vote him would seem odd, yet the post Plum uses in i guess you could call her case against him is just odd to me.

I need to read DoS in iso once i get back from work, and will go from there.

[wolframnhart]

Ok I have gotten home and read DoS in ISO, and have come to the conclusion that I believe him to be town. The reason being behind this is that through out the game he has been very constant on his case against Chris, which I just don't see scum standing out that much against someone. Even after voting for Zwet, DoS was trying to point out why Chris is acting scummy.

I personally believe in Hayker being more scum then DoS. The reasons for which are:

1)Rolefishing:

lol. hayker is scumlord.

So which one should I shoot? I wish the townies would play better. <_<

Well, well, well, "Captain Jack Sparrow"

I remember something being brought up about a single shot, but you yourself never did say you only had one did you. Why is it, that you, the man with a single shot, and no additional powder, bring up having another bullet to let loose?

It seems to me Hayker is trying to find out exactly who Iecerint is and if he has any more bullets to use.

2)Opportunistic voting:

Scum list eh?/ There are a few names roaming around my mind From greatest to least:

DoS
He's pretty much rubbed me the wrong way the whole game, on top of the inconsistancy with suspecting Chris
/vote:DragonsofSummer

Hayker has only posted once mentioning DoS in a negative manner, if DoS "rubbed" Hayker the wrong way he never really mentioned it accept in this post:

DoS, you never seem to stick to your cases very hard. Generally when someone finds someone suspsicious, they keep going after them. You seem to hop form person to person, and never make more then an indirect reference to that person(specifically) again.

You have shown suspiscion for:Me,SirChris, Zwet and then Joe. You pursued Chris for awhile, but stopped, and went after the Zwet. After Zwet died, you targetted the next lurker, me.

Hayker himself has only jumped from Dis, to Mafia, to DGB, then to DoS, but DoS has been pretty voiced about Chris, Haykers biggest voice was to explain the game in three long posts.

3)Hayker has admitted being a lurker, he has admitted inconsistency with his stance on the voice (going from telling people to ignore it to saying he wants to help the voice), and all around doesn't seem very pro-town to me.

Vote: Hayker

[wolframnhart]

yes, i did thank iecerint for using his day vig power, why wouldn't I? The way i see it Zwet was actign very scummy, so much he was about to be lynched. Iecerint day vigs him, which ends up saving us lynching who we find out it a townie and going into a night phase were who knows who might have died, maybe iecerint would have and we would have lost a day vig power. As it is zwet died, we still get to go through Day 1, and hopefully find a scum member before the deadline.

And there is nothing wrong with me, I am playing as I can, even if i am a bit rusty. Whats wrong with you? Are you upset that a few people have gotten off the DoS wagon and a couple are reading him as town now?

[wolframnhart]

I don't think the voice matters much right now, it can't really help/hurt is either way so early as we have no idea what to make of it. I would guess scum, though.



I haven't liked any of Gorrad's posts, they seem to really dance around any issue and aren't, how to say, impressive to me.

unvote vote Sir Chris

Why do you feel the voice is any less important than any other player in the game? Why do you think it is scum related?

Also his posts have had zero content and have thrown around suspicion on players with no real reasoning. The quoted post is good evidence of such.

This is DoS's first statement against you, and I agree with it for the most part. You hadn't up to that point said anything of importance, just a back and forth banter with RF, and then you say Gorrad's posts aren't impressive? As if yours were?

Next post:

I would like to point out that Sir Chris who has said as little (of relevance) as foilist showed up when I posted a case against him and then disappeared again. Way way way scummy.

That is all.

A true post, you did disappear, HOWEVER, so did DoS only to come back to point out you were gone, which does make that point moot. You replied and gave your reasoning, which was fine. You then attack DoS using the same argument he had against you, voting him, and then calling attention to it before DoS had even responded. When he did, he unvoted you:

Unvote There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

And continued on to Zwet, who was by far acting the scummiest at that time. When you called him out on backing off your case he responded:

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

Sounds like a legit reason to me, but hey, what do i know right?

Then:

Chris you are tunnelling. Its a bad thing. In general on this site if people are ignoring it, it is because they don't believe it worth talking about at that point in time.

He calls it tunneling, you call it found scum and pushing for it, still sounds like two townies butting head to me at this time.

I'm recently back from a break, my play style will be a little different than it was previously just based on time passed. Chris, I am not saying that you shouldn't look at me, I am just saying it appears you are looking at no one else (i.e. tunneling).

And I'm not saying they will ignore it forever, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people have other concerns with other players they feel to be a better option than I am right now, so they are working those options instead.

You really feel I am being rigid and formal?

Also if you want to do more background on me or any player if you click on their profile you can look at all posts made by them through that (and as such games they have been in).

DoS goes on to tell you he was not encouraging tunneling:

Wait when did I encourage tunnelling? I don't believe I ever said anything about it in a positive context?

On a related note, did anyone else notice, that in all of chris's posts on the last couple pages only 1 (thats all I can remember but it might have been 2) didn't include an urgent call for my lynch? Anybody else wanna say he isn't tunneling now?

Ooh Chris has convinced some people, and there is now a wagon on me. All I have to say is at this point I have posted way more than you are giving me credit for Chris, and given thoughts on multiple players.

Also I still <3 you dgb it would kill you not to be on a wagon on me I know.

My thoughts on all this. meh.

DoS was being nice here, "convincing" is what he said, being overly pushy was how i saw it, i was a lil surprised that DoS wasn't really taking the wagon seriously though.

He listed you as one of his top scum:

My top 5 scums:
Sir Chris
Raider
Cobalt
Hayker
Joe478

and stated he had given extensive thought about you and raider.

When asked to elaborate he did:

Also for those asking, that list isn't in any particular order, those are just my top five suspects, and as for chris. Lets see. His period of ranting at me, contains a blatant statement of tunneling, various AtE's and overall bullying of the rest of the town. What is there to like about him?

then stated:

Have fun following chris into sure oblivion. He has committed so many obvious scum tells that he admits too in the last 10 pages or so that it is asinine that you are all still following him.

He ends up voting for you, even posting quotes that he based his case off of:

Just cause townies do all 3 doesn't make them any less scummy.

Fine I've posted most of it in previous posts over the past few pages, but I'll clutter up the thread with a ton of the same info for you.

Tunneling:

I also, as you are starting to find out, believe tunneling is a in fact a good practice if it is towards the result you want.

THAT I SAID I WAS NOW TUNNELING ON HIM.

AtE/Bullying:

Seriously people, if you are just going to keep getting swept away in the idiocy of the moment and ignore my excellent case against DoS I am going to have to get uglier and uglier.

Cobalt, how about you vote DoS so he posts something worthwhile.

Ignore what the other people says, joe: I hate you for that vote.

I've got a scum read on DoS, I would like every one to place their vote on this scummy bag of bones so when can lynch him and find a probable scum behind this mask of defense and vanishing and

then we can all just be great friends and have cookies

.

Bolded part.

You guys just piss me off, I've got to say. Wrong on one lynch, gee, let's just hop on another

I can't help but have regret when DoS still draws breath, and if that is a scumtell then you got a messed up book of scum tells.

Those are just a few of the statements you made that appeal to emotion in some fashion.

Next two posts by DoS where basically him not caring much at that point if he got lynched, and it was because of his assurity that he would flip town, which bad reason or not, made me completely sure he was town. Why call for his own hammer? Had he been hammered as it looked like it was going to happen, his case against you Sir Chris would have been null, but he was still claiming it.

He still goes on:

I just find people who use AtE/bullying to get other players to do what they want come out scum more often than town. Tunneling is really a null tell its just a bad practice because you lose sight of everyone else. You stop looking for connections between players, you stop looking at players who could be doing even more blatantly scummy things than the person you are tunneling on, and thats just not good for anyone involved. Plus it will result in you needing to reread over 60 pages to have somewhere to look day 2 (I don't feel bad for you about this by the way. Its my vengeance in action).

Now to me, this is what made me post that DoS was trying to point out that to him you were acting scummy. I don't believe at this time either of you truly are scum, just two very different playing townies. Hope that answers it for you Sir Chris.

[wolframnhart]

How are you meant to find out that wihtout finding out who has it?

Lol was wondering the same thing

[wolframnhart]

Guys I'm claiming today due to Vaya's death.

I'm Vaya's other half as co-Bus driver. I am Dale.

We are bus driving masons and last night we targeted Icerent and wolf under Vaya's suggestion since I was away for most of day one (around 50 pages worth so I need catch up post).

How does this affect town?

1: As co-busdrivers we need both chipmunks to busdrive. So when one of us dies we lose the ability to busdrive and become as effective as VTs. (We are a team yoh!)

2: I bread crumbed this last day in my posts. If you noticed I threw gummie blocks at people. If you are familiar with the game flavour we help make the gummie ships so :p.

Well that at least clears DT unless someone counter claims.

[wolframnhart]

Based on the arguments made in this post:

vote: joe428

Huh? Sorry this one is lost on me.

[wolframnhart]

I have no thoughts and probably won't have thoughts today.

Erm. Today as in December 21st or today as in Day 2?

I didn't think about that. December 21 for sure but maybe day 2 as well... it depends on what happens.



BTW, I am just going to go ahead and do this now before people make a big fuse over my last post.

Claim: Jiminy Cricket, Vanilla Townie

As if people won't make a big fuss over this post? Why claim so early? Do you really think that you will be wagoned so quick you need to post now? And if you knew people were goign to make a fuss why post such a ridiculous post?

[wolframnhart]

Nah. He's probably just vanilla.

Dunno. it's just too convenient to let him off the hook. He states he has no thoughts and probably won't about today, then one person votes him while others ask WTH and he claims. About the oddest play I have ever seen and one that definitely bears watching.

[wolframnhart]

Oi, completely forgot to mention something about last night ><

So due to someone using a power I have no vote for today, or at least it won't count for anything. I am guessing that whoever used it was really targeting Iecerint due to the fact that we were bussed together and if i am reading the wiki properly whatever was to happen to him happened to me? Not sure if this will help the town or not but I am hoping it will.

[wolframnhart]

Yea, only votes.

It does seem a lame scum ability, but none the less it was an ability used, and one that as i said i am guessing was targeted to you since i got it. I will be happily scum hunting today, but unfortunately I will be unable to vote.

[wolframnhart]

@Wolf- Even though you are voteless please vote on wagons as if you had one. Its helpful to get reads.

Good point, I will just have to keep reminding people that my vote doesn't count.

[wolframnhart]

Okay, but that's wrong, see. You need to vote MSSK.

Correct me if i am wrong, but last i saw you were voting DN, not MSSK

[wolframnhart]

That is a damn good catch, one that I can totally agree with.

PLEASE remember that unfortunately my vote does not count, but I am doing this because I agree with DGB.

vote: MSSK

[wolframnhart]

If you are counting my vote he is still really at L-3 just fyi.

[wolframnhart]

This wagon is going fast. I think a response from SSK is needed before anything else happens to include more votes or daykills.

Also anyone who hammers is obv scum. Allow the day killer to work his magic while the town scum hunts. K THANKS .

OK.

Unvote; Vote: MafiaSSK

. Now he's L-2. I won't shoot him until he refuses to claim or we receive a claim.

Iec, hold off on that shot until after we can evaluate the claim please.

Yea raider I am pretty sure that has been established. Way to try and seem more townish.

FoS raider

[wolframnhart]

I wonder what I should fakeclaim. Namine, No. Too obvious. Sora, Way too obvious. A planet? No way too hard to come up with a fakeclaim for. Meh, I guess I'll just claim what I really am.

Claim: Mulan.

Ability: OSV

Kill Flavor: Blasted Away

A one shot night vig? Really? Even after iecerint's ability, plus the scum group, and the apparent third party we have another person who can kill someone off? Even if it is a one shot attempt? Seems a bit much.

And blasted away seems like such a.. i dunno...can't think of the word for it right now but doesn't fit is were I am trying to go with this here. I realize that Mulan at the end of the first movie used fireworks to kill that Hun dude, but Blasted Away? Hmm... gotta think on this one.

[wolframnhart]

Um, DTM, that is NOT what I said. My action does the following:
I send in a claim post by a player.
If that player LIED, the shot misses and he lives.
If that player did NOT like, the shot kills him.
Why are you treating this as two different actions? SSK is NOT kill immune. My ability IS a lie-detector that kills if the post was not a lie.

That just seems so ass backwards, why would the ability kill a player telling the truth? Why not kill him if he is lying?

[wolframnhart]

Hope everyone had a fun holiday!

also

vote MafiaSSK

[wolframnhart]

Hope everyone had a fun holiday!

also

vote MafiaSSK

Wolframnhart, again, if you don't have a vote to use, why are you voting?

I am voting (even though it doesn't count) because I agree with Sajin:

@Wolf- Even though you are voteless please vote on wagons as if you had one. Its helpful to get reads.

I made sure the first time i voted that people knew it did not count, but that I agreed wtih DGB's case against mafiassk, I still do hence the vote.

[wolframnhart]

lol.... your ok with voting for me to pressure me? That makes no sense. I already claimed so what is reason behind pressuring?

Very true, Deathnote has already claimed, so the pressure votes seem a little silly to me.

Deathnote, who are your top suspects and why?

I can't remember who was Vaya's co-bus driver. Who is this again?

DTM is.

[wolframnhart]

SSK dies, we lynch joe afterward.

AFTER BUS'ING Cobalt ALL GAME!

[/i]

As much as I'd hate to admit it, that is actually extremely troubling.

Pressure votes aren't just to get claims. In fact, they're almost never to get claims. They're to encourage a player to play the game and are effective inasmuch as they are often symptomatic of genuine irritation that morphs into intent to lynch.

Ah, fair enough.


Also DGB, what do you think of Kise's case against you?

[wolframnhart]

Also DGB, what do you think of Kise's case against you?

The case revolves around me being an evil genius, which makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. For modesty's sake I should deny it, but it wouldn't be sincere. It's also based on my Gorrad-love, which was misplaced in this game. This I cannot deny. But Gorrad did play it very townie (I won't trust him so readily in the future), even for his meta, and perhaps he wanted to get on my good side to be safe for my unpredictable furies. There isn't a whole lot more I can say.

Alrighty then.

Another quick question:
Why did you say:

Speaking of which, UncertainKitten slept all night.

What I mean by that is if you are somewhat claiming tracker why bring it up now about UK?

[wolframnhart]

DGB/Discode certainly isn't a Nobody.

That doesn't clear you from being a heartless though

[wolframnhart]

I must say, that is exelent directing of the vig papa zito. I wonder what other fun things you've said this game...

Umm Hayker if you are talking about Iecerint, a read of the past few posts would show you Iecerint already explained he can't do another vig...

I just read your iso and found a bunch of juicy goodness, and am now pointing out everything.

So three small, basically meaningless posts are all you could find in your ISO of Papa Zito and those are the "juicy goodness"? Sad.

This is me scratching my head in confusion.

Scumtell

/vote:Papa Zito

Are you even trying? Or are you just posting for the sake of posting? Someone saying they are scratching their head in confusion is a scumtell? And you vote them over it?

Really this looks like a reaction to Zito's post about you.

[wolframnhart]

Rayfrost, couple questions for you.

A)If you had (have) a secret one shot ability that told you Zito is a Nobody, why did you decide to use it on Zito?
B)If he is a Nobody, why are you not voting him?

[wolframnhart]

I would still like to hear RF's answers to my questions, but thinking on it it would be a dumb move on RF's part to be lying at this point just to get Zito lynched, because RF would be the next day lynch pretty much auto if Zito flipped town. Since I don't see RF doing something like that:

Vote Papa Zito

I agree with DGB that RF could be a Heartless, but I would think as much as Heartless want Nobody's dead as much as town, it seems more like a townie wanting to give good info just in case something ended up happening to him at night.

[wolframnhart]

There are some nobodies that are not aligned with the others in the games.

You just made this whole big case against Zito, now you're suggesting he might be a Nobody, but not be scum???[/quote]

Bah, beat me to what I was going to ask.

[wolframnhart]

PZ, you are at L-2, RF says that his one shot ability has claimed you to be a Nobody, do you not feel the need to claim to try and disprove him, or are the rolling eyes supposed to show us your innocence?

[wolframnhart]

DGB- I just thought of something. You claimed miller with no flavor and we have a dead flavor cop (heartless specific). It seems odd to have a generic miller rather than an appears as a heartless/nobody to investigations, no?

I'm only a miller of the Heartless variety. I should scan clean to a Nobody cop. When I read the PM I didn't even realize the significance of "Heartless" because I don't know the first thing about KH.

Wait.. did you just claim Heartless Miller/Tracker?

[wolframnhart]

Sigh. I hate dealing with this BS.

Hai I'm Donald Duck.

Now what Ray?

Not a failed self-hammer.

I'm VT, so killing me doesn't really matter. Trying to get more info out of Ray isn't working so we may as well end the day so you guys can lynch him tomorrow and move on with the game. There's really nothing else to say here.

I pray RF was telling the truth now.

I also pray Slicey wouldn't make Donald Duck a VT.

[wolframnhart]

Looking at RF's quote from Kdub, I am not completely positive on raider being a Nobody, he could very well be Heartless, but I would think Kdub would push a little more on raider, and in that post he also said he was good with pressure on DeathNote, so unless he had gotten a guilty on both DN amd Raider I wouldn't condemn either of them too fast on just that one post.

I liked the vote posting from DGB, good thing to look at and see where people were placing everything, unfortunately I can't seem to get much off that with Kdub's votes because they were split between DGB and Reck for the most part, then when to cobalt.

Welcome to MME , I don't think we are in any hurry to have him read up, we have the time, and it might be good to have a good read through, yet if it becomes a bit much MME start on day 2 like Starbuck and go from there.

[wolframnhart]

I'm really not following you here Kise. You build what looks to be like a case against DGB, then vote DN in a way that it looks like it belongs in the RVS.

[wolframnhart]

Kise is dropping character crumbs so bad right now i don't know if he could really be scum, of course the second option is he is getting ready for a claim incase the wagon grows larger, though why he is starting to crumb now is weird.

[wolframnhart]

Kise I never said you were a roleblocker, I said you were character crumbing. Not once in that sentence did i imply you were a roleblocker, so calm down.

Also, how can a roleblock stop the nobody's kill? I thought RB's didnt stop a kill, just a power?

[wolframnhart]

WRH:

Roleblockers stop actions unless they are automatic (possibly auto too), or the RBed individual is RB immune.

thanks for the explanation.

[wolframnhart]

I really can't see Kise pulling some kind of gambit right now. I think he has info against DN, otherwise he would be more then likely lynched tomorrow and that wouldn't benifit him at all, because we have alot of days left.

Either way

vote Deathnote

[wolframnhart]

K unofficial here but I believe DN is at L-3, and has yet to post. Even though he has already claimed beforehand, i agree with RF that we should hold up for a bit until others post/catch up.

[wolframnhart]

Kise, the reason i thought it was possibly a gambit is you could be heartless or a nobody that if DN flips the scum faction opposite of yours you got lucky and would more then likely be cleared for the rest of the game. However I don't think this the case because it would be one hell of a leap of faith to pull it off.

Maybe I am using the word gambit wrong (more then likely).

To answer Iecerint's question out of the two I would pick DN for scum over Kise, and if that turns out to be false then Kise got me fooled.

[wolframnhart]

Shotty rubs me the wrong way, but I think the case on raider is a little better, and your secret scumtell on DeathNote also lets him beat Shotty for now.

What secrete scum tell? Who is slipping false evidence against me?

I bet if you actually read the start of today up until now you could actually see the answer to your place holder post question.

[wolframnhart]

I'm not sure I understanding. You're positing ShottyHeartless Raidertown (e.g. setting up for an I-told-you-so on raider)?

I think Raider is scum.

I'm saying it's logically possible for ShottyHeartless to defend RaiderNobody.

RF thoughts run along side mine. If we were 100% positive that there was just on last scum group though, I would probably choose raider as the scum over shotty, but that is based on vibe more then anything, and i have been known to be wrong before.

[wolframnhart]

Who have we not heard from yet today at all, Hayker?

Course even hearing from him you really aren't getting anything but pointless chatter...

[wolframnhart]

If that was even remotely possible RF I would second that request.

[wolframnhart]

I do note that he comepletely droped going after Mae as far as I can remember after day 2 or so.

That might be because Mae was killed night 1...

[wolframnhart]

Either that or hayker thought that you were a traitor to the mafia (as in wanted them dead because you would have won with town) in which case he was trying to get a townie lynched?

[wolframnhart]

Like I said. Makes no sense.

Please clarify.

A member of the mafia that wishes to take down the other mafia members and win condition that revolves around killing off the rest of the mafia. It was a hunch, and I do not regret going at this hunch. It been quite useful.

Is this really a true role? Never heard of it and it sounds bass ackwards to me.

[wolframnhart]

Oh but you can't pick option #2 DGB, because according to Hayker anyone that calls him town is scum.

[wolframnhart]

Shotty why are you calling me a sheep? When did i ever jump all over your avatar? I didn't even know where it came from until kise said something.

[wolframnhart]

Sorry to hear that MME, but hopefully everything works out for you!

[wolframnhart]

I'm fine with a popcorn, raider first then go from there.

[wolframnhart]

I'm 85% sure you and DTM have it backward. Cobalt claimed Mulan. SSK claimed King Mickey. Not that that neutralizes your post.

SSK claimed Mulan, Cobalt Mickey, like you said it doesn't neutralize anything, just clarifying.

[wolframnhart]

Heheheh, raider is lying. Scar is NEVER a heartless in the game; merely a ghost. His flavor is too long for a VT anyway. Unless you want to believe Scar is really here and is 3rd party, then put the votes back on him, prease. Scar is not Heartless, I repeat.

http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/Scar

I agree with Kise here, aside from the Scar fact the flavor seemed too buffed up for a VT, probably trying to succeed where Cobalt and Papa failed.

unvote, vote raider

[wolframnhart]

I still intend to post why I voted for Ace, but that will take a few mins. For now I'm gonna post a little flavour analysis.

A claim that has bothered me since day 2, or whenever the second shot was fired, was Jack Sparrow. Why does he have two bullets, why? Now I got a couple things I thought up.

First I will state why it could be Jack Sparrow:
You visit most worlds twice in Kingdom Hearts 2, including Port Royal.(While I'm at it, someone asked the villian of Port Royal, and that'd be Barbossa of course)

While it could make sense, I dunno.

Now Gorrad, I have to thank you for pointing out all the gun users, as I had compeltly forgotten about Clayton.

Clayton fires his gun exactly twice within cutscenes. Coincidence? I wonder

Another one is the Riku appearing as Ansem claim.The role with this claim was aparently called "Not Quite Vanilla Townie", which baffles me as how it is a tracker. Though it is mentioned that the releasing of the blindfold did activate a power. Tracking is quite a powerful power, not a lame one like was mentioned.

Anyways, Riku looks like Ansem(Xehanort's heartless) in two situations, one where he is fully possesed by Ansem and is essentially him, and one time where he is Riku, but somehow considers himself to be Ansem.

Niether of these people should be treated as clear as they have been, and DGB's behavior should be defenetly be noted.

So lots of speculation and flavor for other people, pointing fingers and saying "look over here!"

it probably took you awhile to type all that up and look up any info you needed off KH wiki, yet you didn't have time to also state the most important part, why you voted ace? Oi....

[wolframnhart]

Well if Ace's claim is true it seems we will find that out soon enough. I agree with Iecerint, that the roleblocker won't hurt the investigation too much if at all. I am not liking raider's quick vote after the claim though, Ace explained why he hadn't used his ability yet. It's lucky he hadn't been killed, but now that the list of suspects has been narrowed his chances of finding scum are much better, so I am happy that he saved his ability, so I am keeping my vote on raider for now. I would really like to hear more from DN though.

[wolframnhart]

@kise

I thought you were crumbling Goofy, but after looking back at it, I saw you were just talking to DGB and calling him different Goof names ><

[wolframnhart]

No not at all

[wolframnhart]

Alright if more votes is what it will take then lets get him to L-1 at least

unvote, vote Flareonage

[wolframnhart]

He was not able to bus anyone on night 2. His partner died night 1, so therefore starting day 2 he has been complete vanilla with no bussing power.

[wolframnhart]

I am too, especially since the play is reminding me of an ongoing game.

I would like to see his claim though, even though I am sure I know what it will be.

[wolframnhart]

Then claim already.

[wolframnhart]

Why is it so difficult for you to claim Flare?

[wolframnhart]

Everyone is pushing for you to claim, now you are just stalling to make something up. Even if you think we are going to lynch you just claim and stop being difficult.

[wolframnhart]

He probably cant claim cuz he can't make up a good enough claim to lie to us about.

[wolframnhart]

this is getting sad

[wolframnhart]

I had the same thoughts as Iecerint, though i did not catch the UK part.

[wolframnhart]

AtE= Appeal To Emotion

[wolframnhart]

unvote

Gotta think Flare is more then likely town. Unless he is a great faker he didn't know about the Jiminy claim, added more to the flavor that makes sense, and I only added my vote to him to get him to claim anyways.

[wolframnhart]

No ray he claimed Mulan, an ally from KH2:

I wonder what I should fakeclaim. Namine, No. Too obvious. Sora, Way too obvious. A planet? No way too hard to come up with a fakeclaim for. Meh, I guess I'll just claim what I really am.

Claim: Mulan. Ability: OSV Kill Flavor: Blasted Away

[wolframnhart]

Playing this has gotten me into playing KH again, so I know the Council.

Maleficint, Hades, Hook, Oogi Boogie, Jafar, and Ursula. Clayton was never really a Heartless, he just used them (unless that counts?). Scar was in KHII as a shadow from what I remember. Mulan was an ally in KHII.

Maybe Iecerint could be right about the Council being the Heartless Scum Group 1, and the Nobodies be Scum Group 2, we would have to lynch another Heartless to find out.

[wolframnhart]

WFH, what does it mean that Scar is a "shadow"? Is that different from being a Heartless?

Well i haven't gotten to KHII yet, so maybe shadow and heartless is the same? I guess when i think heartless I think Heartless Council who had control of their thoughts/actions and Scar's shadow was more like evil emotions left over and haunting the Pride Lands.

[wolframnhart]

why exactly is Captain Hooks presence odd?

[wolframnhart]

What exactly is flavor? The rest of the PM?

My journal is erased and I'm working with the town to get rid of all threats and hopefully get my notes back

You never said anything about Castle Oblivion before...hmm

[wolframnhart]

Site might be lagging for some people, I know it is for me.

I am not completely sold on Simba being in the game. I don't feel Scar is here because I agree with Kise, the flavor of the kills doesn't seem to fit, and if I had to make an educated guess I would think the actual council would be the Heartless scum, and the more popular Nobodies making up the Nobody scum team.

However the flavor doesn't seem to be mod flavor, just made up flavor.

Example:

Flare said his character is Jiminey Cricket, and

My journal is erased and I'm working with the town to get rid of all threats and hopefully get my notes back.

while raider said:

I'm Simba, king of my homelands which is the Pride Lands. Scar so killed my father, the bastard. I was so trying to kill him so the only real help I have is that someone named scar is in this game and is scum. Yeah I know not of much help and of course you guys think its something off the wiki or some crap like that.

Flare's flavor explained why he was helping the town, where as raider just tells us in not mod sounding words a simple recap of The Lion King, without any reason he is helping the town. And why would he be given information on what villan is in this game? That doesn't sound like something Slicey would give away.

vote raider

[wolframnhart]

My win with the town condition gives flavor as to why, and that still doesn't explain why Slicey would apparently give you the name of a villain in this game, if said villain is indeed here.

[wolframnhart]

I'm trying to decide whether we should claim whether helps-town is in our PMs. On the one hand, it will help us determine whether this is null. On the other hand, we need to make sure players don't weasel out of it.

True Iecerint, it's an iffy situation. I still say though why would Slicey tell Raider a villain that is in the game? Even if Slicey didn't tell him who Scar was, it is still information that I don't see Slicey giving out.

[wolframnhart]

I'm trying to decide whether we should claim whether helps-town is in our PMs. On the one hand, it will help us determine whether this is null. On the other hand, we need to make sure players don't weasel out of it.

True Iecerint, it's an iffy situation. I still say though why would Slicey tell Raider a villain that is in the game? Even if Slicey didn't tell him who Scar was, it is still information that I don't see Slicey giving out.

I have said this before but who cares if there is a role of scar in the game or not. I am not even positive there is someone with that role name. No one is going to claim it so speculating on a possibility that the role could be in this game is just a waste of time. At best it is nothing to be concerned about as we can also just name every evil character in the game and say these roles could be in this game.

you are not positive there is a role of scar in this game? You said:

I'm Simba, king of my homelands which is the Pride Lands. Scar so killed my father, the bastard. I was so trying to kill him so

the only real help I have is that someone named scar is in this game and is scum.

Yeah I know not of much help and of course you guys think its something off the wiki or some crap like that.

Bolded I did. Sounds like you are positive there raider, and now you say you aren't?

[wolframnhart]

A)Why is Kise being hard to lynch a good omen?

B)I am lost on the Kise case i admit...

[wolframnhart]

And who would have shed a tear if DN was lynched... You?

SW, do you really think a giant lion named scar is responsible for the crushed kill flavor? Do you really think there is an SK here? Honestly? Why are you overthinking a very simple day phase? Raider said Scar IS HERE and IS SCUM, then later says he doesn't know for sure.

At least I admit when I'm full of crap.

I have to agree with Kise on this one.

[wolframnhart]

Sorry I should have made it clearer. I was talking about the Scar part.

[wolframnhart]

@DTmaster

I am not sure what a lyncher? is so I don't know if that is where I am going with my argument.

@SW
Ok thank you for a much clearer clarification on the Kise case, however here are my thoughts.

To me we are dealing with two liars today, Raider and Kise, question is which one do we choose?

I understand that Kise lied and almost got who people are now believing to be a townie lynched, yet if DN wasn't acting so scummy I don't think people would have gone along with it as quickly as they did. Flare has been slighty more active, but just barely, and maybe should be looked at again. Had DN flipped town Kise would have had a lot of explaining to do, but I am not sure that a scum memeber would admit to lying to get a possible townie lynched.

Raider, on the other hand, to me has lied about his role PM, saying that Scar is in the game, then saying Scar is not or might not be in the game. To me, lying about your role PM means you are trying to save yourself from being lynched, which is very scummy to me. Because of this I am still comfortable with my Raider vote because I do not believe his Simba claim since he lied about the Scar part of it, so i therefore think he is lying about the whole thing.

[wolframnhart]

Yes I am making a big deal out of it Raider. You

claimed

you knew Scar was in the game. You basically said you were privy to information. Then you went back and said you didn't know, when you said you knew the first time around. DN (nor Flare) was not lynched. Kise lied. []bYou[/b] lied and I believe you lied about your role entirely. I don't care which villains are in the game, scum is scum.

Both lies are bad either way, i am just saying that you lied to try and protect yourself, which means you lied about your role, in other words you are scum.

[wolframnhart]

I don't care if Scar is or is not in this game, what I care about is that you said (once again) you

knew

Scar was in this game, then you said you didn't know if he was or wsn't, you lied about the fact that he was or wasn't in this game, which to me means you lied about your role pm, I won't say this again raider.