Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Sir Chris]

*Yawned*

Well Thanksgiving was good, and lots of early voting, interesting, I guess you guys aren't shy about tossing around votes, that's cool.

I don't like the tone of Gorrad's posts so I am going to say he is scum and vote him, yes, that sounds excellent.

Vote: Gorrad

[Sir Chris]

What a troublesome player you are, RayFrost, a person with more ego than myself. I don't think I'll be obeying you, I am afraid.

[Sir Chris]

Pfft, I didn't ask for your trust.

[Sir Chris]

I don't need your permission luckily.

[Sir Chris]

I don't care what your reasoning was, at this juncture any vote you could possibly have has very little reasoning, logic, and true insight. Especially with the fact that you are such a bad player, which I have glimpsed from you given our little back and forth just now.

Do as you wish.

[Sir Chris]

I don't think the voice matters much right now, it can't really help/hurt is either way so early as we have no idea what to make of it. I would guess scum, though.



I haven't liked any of Gorrad's posts, they seem to really dance around any issue and aren't, how to say, impressive to me.

[Sir Chris]

I don't think the voice matters much right now, it can't really help/hurt is either way so early as we have no idea what to make of it. I would guess scum, though.



I haven't liked any of Gorrad's posts, they seem to really dance around any issue and aren't, how to say, impressive to me.

unvote vote Sir Chris

Why do you feel the voice is any less important than any other player in the game? Why do you think it is scum related?

Also his posts have had zero content and have thrown around suspicion on players with no real reasoning. The quoted post is good evidence of such.

Because the voice can't be given a name, it doesn't have an identity. Pondering what the voice is about does no good day one, because we don't know what is accounting for it. I think it is a scum role because I have seen a scum role like it before called Mafia Manipulator, where scum makes the host post certain stuff. Also there is no 'reasoning' day one that is concrete, it is more about feeling it out. I don't think Gorrad's post look good, so I vote for him. Makes sense to me.

[Sir Chris]

I would like to point out that Sir Chris who has said as little (of relevance) as foilist showed up when I posted a case against him and then disappeared again. Way way way scummy.

That is all.

I apologize if I appear a bit in and out, I am used to much short day times and it is hard to adjust to such lengthy days, something I am working on.

I also realized that it looked pretty bad for me to come in right as you said that, but sadly it was nothing but coincidence, I just chose a troublesome time to log onto the website.

I'll note all the discussion about the games themselves is kinda making me distance myself from the topic, as I find it boring to see so many posts about the games and less to do with the actual game, I guess I shouldn't do that though.

[Sir Chris]

Did I?

That was lots to you? Really?

Huh.

I responded a bit, but I suppose that isn't really content. Well done, that was half correct, but that really wasn't lots, that was more like "Well here is my reason." I mean, by you posting that you didn't really content any yourself, you just pointed out that my particular post was not aimed at content in the game while trying to sound like a big tough person with the false-compliment. Very aggressive post on someone who doesn't really pop in much. So I thank you for your compliment at my great job, and would like to give you one for your great job of underestimating what the word "lots" should mean and not understanding what basic "explaining yourself" is.

Back on point though, skimming the topic a bit the one post that struck me was post 300 by Colbat discussing that discussing something was anti-town. I would like to state right now that is so wrong. Mafia moreso than town generally knows what is or is not going on in terms of flavor or has better guesses. Mafia, being in a team and having the information of their combined forces and knowing everyone not them is against them (generally speaking) can guess much better at stuff like the voice better than town is capable of, because town must be paranoid of just about all of the information they get on that day. So to say discussing anything with town (aside from outright saying stuff like "I think that guy is probably cop") is almost always beneficial, getting more and more thoughts out of people is always a good thing, it allows for a basis of thought.

[Sir Chris]

Also I'll say this, scum claiming flavor day one is a very poor tactic for scum and while it is possible that it is a ruse, I highly doubt it to be one.

[Sir Chris]

Also I know this can be wifomed into the dirt, but do believe me when I say I work retail and today/yesterday as of now was my first day off in nearly a week. Don't worry, by the time this day is done most of you will wish I would have stopped talking, maybe you already do!

I don't like it when DragonsOfSummer makes a post and goes 'man that chris guy sure is scummy, that is all." Like, I don't know, when I am looking over a game I try to comment on more stuff than just one line like that.

...

Actually doing a quick search, that was his first post since he actually accused me of being scum. So this guy, walks into this topic, that has had a lot of discussion about other stuff, only to accuse me of being scummy and disappearing while he himself did the exact same thing.

Man, that is not cool.

unvote
Vote DragonsofSummer

I don't like Gorrad still too much, but I guess that's another suspicion for another time. It is one thing to say I haven't posted much, that's true, or to say my belief that the voice shouldn't have a huge impact on day one was scummy can be seen as fair.

But then, of all the things, to not post for page after page and then waltz in here and go "Hey guys, just to let you know, just pointing out, after ALL this discussion that has taken place, I just wanted to let you know that the guy I voted for hasn't shown up. Now, I could post something else, or more, but that's gonna be it. Thanks."

Yeah, that's by far the scummiest and most eye popping thing I've seen this game.

[Sir Chris]

In fact, I did some research BEFORE his post voting me, because I am just bored like that. And here are the only two other posts in the topic.

vote Deathnote

You should know why! Getting me dead and all...

I fight for truth, justice and the American way.

Also pizza.

---

How do you scumhunt a disembodied voice? Because just blindly assuming this is coming from town makes me twitch.

This post makes me happy.

Also you scum hunt a disembodied voice by finding the microphone cord and following it to is point of origin. Duh

Also RF case on cobalt please.

So basically I got voted by a guy for doing the same thing he is accusing of me doing, except he has managed to do it even worse than I am. He has posted quite literally no content in four posts, just making jokes and requesting information, and then voting for me for reasons that he honestly has no right to do so, maybe hoping that my absence would prove to make em an easy lynch target. I don't like it when I get taken for an easy target, it is just a bit annoying, especially by someone who can't even live up to his own standards of what I should be doing to be "not as scummy" it seems.

[Sir Chris]

Well you asked for some content, and by golly, there you go. So I'll ask the same of you, saberwolf, please respond to the content you so wonderfully asked for and let us content this topic to the sky together.

[Sir Chris]

Very well, saberwolf, I will hold you to that promise.

[Sir Chris]

@DTMaster

I said 'aside from saying stuff like'. I think you misread what I was saying. Also I wasn't saying to rolefish, I was saying discussing the voice isn't anti-town, and I have no idea why you disagree. There is a marked difference between what I find acceptable, which is around:

"Ok guys, let's wonder if the voice is town or scum, but let's not make any hasty decisions, it is get to get input from everyone on something as weird as this before we move forward."

You seem to be reading it as.

"WE MUST FIND THE VOICE, QUICKLY, EVERYONE CLAIM OR WE WILL CUT YOU DOWN"

I mean the latter appears to have been what happened or close enough, but that wasn't what I was trying to indicate.

Also I think I got to the "point" in my last two posts, so unless you want to totally ignore the fact that Dragonsofsummer is a totally hypocrite in his voting, I'd like to at least hear your thoughts on that.

Although I am glad you agree with my spidey sense on Gorrad.

[Sir Chris]

it is time to get input*

[Sir Chris]

So basically to conclude: I didn't approve of the claim, but I was fine with DISCUSSING it, to make more perfectly clear.

[Sir Chris]

Riku.

[Sir Chris]

Oh, I just skimmed the topic.

Why did everyone act as if he had claimed for like, two pages then.

Geesh let me re-read.

[Sir Chris]

Hm? I was just arguing theory of discussing it or not, I made no real theories of my own based on it for a reason!

Although hey, remember that whole case about dragonsofsummers voting me, disappearing himself, then saying I disappeared and acted as if all he needed to discuss was that?

Still valid!

and skimming is a bad habit of mine, also I may or may not have simply missed an entire page by accident.

Also come on Papa Zito, you know you love me. No need to sigh at the failure.

[Sir Chris]

We'll hug it out after the game Papa Zito.

My thoughts on Gorrad weren't substantial or anything I just read his posts early on and felt something was off, something artificial about how he was constructing his posts. I noticed he posted a ton of KH information which is technically useless for finding scum as I see it.

Let me go back and poke at zwet's posts, see if I agree with ya.

[Sir Chris]

Oh dear, you were right, that did not take long.

Anyway though I disagree that he is more obvious scum. He is a lurking fiend and has contributed next to nil, but he only has one less post than the glorious dragon man and he didn't vote for a guy, disappear, pop back in only to say said guy hadn't posted, and then go poof again while stating "That is all."

Honestly?

The "That is all." really just bothers me more than anything else. What is that?

[Sir Chris]

Oh geesh I said I was going to do it 8 minutes ago and then I checked an email no need to hang me

[Sir Chris]

Hm. And that meta has always been town and never scum?

[Sir Chris]

Actually I think I have been 'doing it wrong' as I am new here, what do you mean by 'iso'ing posts. I have just been shifting through by the searchng unction, going to guess there's an easier way to do it?

Sorry for the dumb question, but uh, want to clarify this early in my time here as opposed to later.

[Sir Chris]

Anyway my hangup on joining in on the fun is that I can see many scenarios where as town someone would post less often, although that is pretty bad considering their usual playstyle.

It is highly suspect, that I agree with. However I see absolutely no way Dragons doing what he did can be a person being town, so I am still going to push that lynch.

[Sir Chris]

Unvote

There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser

his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

Am I the only person who sees that as 'Oh, the inactive guy I was going after bites back, better hop off of him onto the next potential easy train'

[Sir Chris]

also saberwolf I said I was going to hold you to discussing my stuff on DoS, tis time!

[Sir Chris]

Wait, are you saying I had a bad case?

What was wrong with it? While I don't like being voted, it wasn't the driving reason behind my logic.

[Sir Chris]

Uh, why not? He has posted four, five times now, and it has been hypocritical, off topic, and then wagoning to the same logic and little more.

I'd say that's a great case for scum.

[Sir Chris]

OK, well what is more scummy than barely showing up, when pressed by a previously inactive player switching to another, inactive player, and then acting slinking back to the shadows.

I sincerely wish to know sort of pointing a sign that says "I am scum", how you can be more scummy than that, also I guess disregarding meta on you too.

[Sir Chris]

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

Not exactly. I said Gorrad didn't look good in just about the same way you said I didn't look good. Also I am glad you agree that my reason is sound, as it is the truth, but it doesn't mean your actions have been less scummy. Now you must do what I did and come out into the light more and start posting, because at the moment we have precious little from you.

[Sir Chris]

Well, just because he attacked me doesn't mean my observation of his posts are invalidated. Unless you are claiming that for some reason my actual points don't make sense.

[Sir Chris]

Ok, I like Pokemon as much as the next teenage nerd, but it seems to me that this is absolutely the MOST off-topic we can possibly get.

This is not a challenge.

Still waiting on that claim, Dis. For those who don't want Dis to claim because 'it's wrong to claim unless you're L-2': VOTE FOR HIM! Get him up to L-2 if that's your belief. The L-2 is yet another policy scum use to hide intentions and....just read my last rant about them ><.

What if we don't find him scummy. What am I supposed to do then?

[Sir Chris]

Ah, will do then!

Also maybe I am just paranoid but the zwet lynch seems way too easy, and I don't like how people are dismissing DoS as if I am being an idiot or as if something is more important. In my time of playing mafia it is generally the people that are pushed to the side day one that come up scum later. It is hard to get a majority of town to agree to anything day 1 a lot of the time, so if someone is getting votes it makes me worried it is "scum approved" so to speak.

[Sir Chris]

I have been playing mafia online for eight years, and while it changes in many forms and while you guys use a couple of different terms and play longer days, it is generally the same. You can take it with a grain if you wish, but I trust my instincts either way.

[Sir Chris]

Also I make a point, and you guys just, again, brush it aside.

Are you saying here on this site it is uncommon for scum to be harder to lynch and get people on than it is town day one?

[Sir Chris]

Yeah, it does seem that way. I just don't like how people are responding to DoS. It is one thing if people just liked zwet better, but it doesn't seem like that is the response.

[Sir Chris]

Eh, if people are willing to ignore it then they are tunneling too and they are bad. I don't see how I am tunneling, hard to tunnel when a lynch I find acceptable and have said as such is leading, I am just being paranoid and feel it is never bad to look at more than one person. Not to mention you saying this about your own lynch is suspect.

[Sir Chris]

Which policy did I break this time? The one that states I must be a drone to a policy? That'll be one I break if you lynch me 1000 times, I am afraid.

[Sir Chris]

Although to be a little less smartassed about it, what policy do you feel the itch to lynch me for this time? I am a bit new here so I am not really familiar with all of your rules and likes, and the dislikes. I am too busy trying to hunt scum to go over the details overly much, but you seem to have time to not hunt scum and talk about policy lynching, so do continue.

[Sir Chris]

Ironically, I was looking through newbie mafia 508 just now (I am a newb who is finding it hard to search) where DoS said he was intentionally acting scummy, reminds me a bit of his play this game in his diction.

[Sir Chris]

Also just browsing through his town posts throughout the years, he seems a lot more rigid and formal than he is as town, or at least, from what I had went through.

[Sir Chris]

I am not trying to tunnel, I would call it moreso focusing. I have said that I agree on the general reasoning of zwet and that Gorrad feels about a mile off for a town member, he seems to love posting information and not as much content.

It is just how I play, I push hard to get you to talk more, and you have. The reason I continue to push is when backed you have done absolutely nothing but defend yourself, a habit I myself have had at times over my mafia career on other sites when I am scum, so you post and you rationalize and I cannot help but to see it as scum. You aren't really posting anything new when you post, merely responding to me. I would have felt an awful lot better about you if when I had made my case on you that you didnt hop onto the biggest bandwagon of the day and then proceed to defend yourself and nothing more.

[Sir Chris]

I just want everyone to acknowledge and recognize that DoS is being very scummy and even if you have other lynches that you prefer, it should at least be obvious that the stuff I have posted is scummy.

Perfectly willing to lynch other members of scum, can't be only one scum in a game after all!

[Sir Chris]

to clarify: "I have posted is scummy' can also be read as 'that the stuff I have highlighted about his play is scummy.'

[Sir Chris]

For those of you who, like me, are geeky enough to watch Yu-Gi-Oh the Abridged Series, that last post reminds me of Marik:

IGNORE ME!

(For those of you NOT geeky enough to follow a youtube parody of a show about children's card games, in one of the more recent episodes, the villain (Marik), while incognito, shouts Ignore Me after every time he does something to tip his hand as an evildoer. This, not surprisingly, works.)

Now I want to run Yu-Gi-Oh: The Abridged Mafia. Damnit.

I believe it is;

"IGNORE ME PUNY MORTAL! IGNORE ME I SAY!"

[Sir Chris]

RayFrost, try to focus a little better and respond when I ask what policy you think I have offended, it is troublesome if you just pop in and post randomly.

[Sir Chris]

This doesn't seem to be much of a policy lynch as much as "this is how you place as scum let's lynch you."

[Sir Chris]

I'd probably like to burn that school to the ground.

I wonder what school I am in! I'd call it Dragon Quest Academy and only hire blondes.

That's a bit off track.

I don't see anything obviously wrong with Cobalt's play, which was what I wanted to originally say, but then he posted he belonged to a school of thought so I just was compelled to be silly.

[Sir Chris]

Damn right I am not a good lynch.

But uh, yeah, DoS again has gone away for days again unless I missed a post (in fact, let me check on that)

Post 452 I respond to DoS' post and let's see if he has posted since.



Also guy with the cool homer avatar (I should probably memorize names) you noted in one of your posts how I was trying to build a case based on false info/a lie, actually I was just commenting on how I like the game to be played when it came to speculation, I skipped a page while making my way through the topic and didn't read it properly, which is my bad, but I was way behind from having a ton of days of work in a row, I try to avoid that!

k back to DoS

Then he accuses me of tunneling, which I am glad people have noted seems like defensive BS, as I have made my fair share of commenting on other issues. I mean, I really want the dude dead and stuff, and if I can convince people to vote him that'd just be fantastic, but zwet has a lot of damning past play against them, but I also worry that this is a scum approved lynch, but then I can't discount the fact that smart scum would throw their buddy under a bus if they were playing that bad either, so I am willing to accept zwet's corpse and hope it flips scum, which is a lot more likely than not unless zwet just decided to stop trying randomly.


And then he proves he is around and lurking when he makes a comment about the yugioh abridges series, which is cool and all, but I mean, I don't know. It is extremely scummy to me how a guy posts nothing but defenses and one liners to vote other players in a game this large. I don't know how active mafia games are here, but there has been a crapton of content to sift through and try to draw conclusions, and DoS doesn't seem to be doing it. He said he is back from a break, and I believe that. With that said, I don't think if you play mafia a fair bit you can forget to scum hunt in this blatant manner. He has voted, he has defended himself, but he hasn't scumhunted. He has no contributed one thing in the pursuit of scum. He gives one line reasoning and then doesn't talk about it again. Damnit, if you think someone is scum you at least come at that scum with the intent to shred them from their very being as town. I guess it could be chalked up to playstyle in that regard, but style only masks so much.

664 from Kise saying that they "skipped over" the 'squabble.' Damn, I want to know what passes for scum tells here. I sincerely wish to know this. Dude defends himself, does nothing else, does not help town in the pursuit of any lynches, gives flawed reasoning, backs off fast as hell when the guy he votes proves he can post (that's me btw) and then just goes back into the shadow. Also I see this as scummy if DoS does indeed flip scum at a given point because I have found it common that people sometimes get uncomfortable talking directly about taking sides when their scumbuddies are involved because it can be picked at later. Just food for thought.

I understand if people don't want to see DoS outright dead today, the case against zwet is strong, however you know what's awesome about posting a lot about a person? It's there. This is a big game, I am not content to only have a few posts about DoS. I am new to this site, but this is how I hunt down scum. I make them post and I post about them And it has worked. Every time I have made a DoS comment, or at least around the time I have, DoS suddenly appears from his lurking spot under a rock to post a defense. This is behavior he accused me of himself as being scummy, and then later was forced to drop because I think he realized I don't go down quietly like he wanted his chosen lynch of the day to go down.

Gorrad continues to look interesting to me. I hesitate now to call it scummy, but I just don't like the way he posts his thoughts. As of now I don't know if I am getting a genuine scum read or if I just don't like how he posts, noting this out loud just because I was thinking it and I may forget, so, note to self: Still don't like Gorrad.

Anyway I see the deeper I get into the topic the more Raider (ie homer simpson guy) seems to agree with me, glad for that.

I really do hope that zwet is scum and it was this easy, it is just that where I usually play this kind of lynch has about even odds of being a bad townie just choking and not bothering to try to recover, probably less common here though. Not to be confusing, I see the case and I am "fine" with the lynch, but at this point if I was day vigi I'd have probably just popped DoS by now and called it a day.

(and yes, I know, vigi'ing that early is a bit reckless, oh well.)

[Sir Chris]

"If DoS does indeed flip scum at any given point Kise looks terrible for that"

whoo forgetting who parts of a sentence.

[Sir Chris]

Basically to help for those who skim.

DoS as scum: kukuku, Sir Chris has barely posted and is brand new to the site, a perfect target!
Sir Chris: Uh
DoS as scum: kukuku, appearing right when I accuse him!
Sir Chris: *eight metric tons of shoving it back down DoS' throat*
DoS as scum; I... see. Well, cheerio mate, well played. Oh hey zwet vote time!

<_< >_>

maybe a bit of mocking in there.

[Sir Chris]

Mostly cuz you misrepresented DoS to be Sir Chris, who said that everybody was tunnel visioning (don't remember the exact wording) cuz they didn't agree with him (basically).

If your talking about me there then your ability to read is disappointing.

[Sir Chris]

Edit: You are*, not your.

[Sir Chris]

Eh, if people are willing to ignore it then they are tunneling too and they are bad. I don't see how I am tunneling, hard to tunnel when a lynch I find acceptable and have said as such is leading, I am just being paranoid and feel it is never bad to look at more than one person. Not to mention you saying this about your own lynch is suspect.

Notice the if, champ.

[Sir Chris]

Oh, so you admit to tunneling. That's terrible then, shame on you.

[Sir Chris]

But other than mocking your poor play, I am confused where you draw the "you must be mistaken" because DoS has a post that's saying that tunneling is going on as well, earlier in the topic.

[Sir Chris]

Hoho, we'll see. I trust my reads, if that rubs you the wrong way I couldn't care less. I have played this game too long to be shove around by some guy who thinks he has seniority on me. So how about you start providing meaningful content and stop trying to push me around, its not going to work.

[Sir Chris]

Also maybe its because DoS has like seven posts and I have a lot more than seven posts, so when I say something that's the same it is different circumstances surrounding it. Also DoS was accusing people of tunneling while defending himself, while I accused people of for tunneling while I was attacking someone. They are similar in a way but completely different given context, or would you disagree?

[Sir Chris]

Maybe not. I have high standards after all, takes a lot to impress good ole Sir Chris, I am afraid. Maybe one day you'll meet those standards!

Also I worry for any player who does not care for how a player acts, what an interesting reaction from you.

[Sir Chris]

Fair enough, I toss my pride aside for mafia because I find it is just one more barrier between me and a more pure read of people, helps me find scum. To each his own.

So, back on track as I am done taking random jabs at you, do you disagree that the circumstances between DoS and I and the whole 'tunneling' are vastly different? I mean, you say someone is off the mark, but then it turns out that you are the one that tried to present false infomration as a way to make someone voting DoS bad. I'd think that'd make you feel a tad awkward, I know I did earlier when I skipped a page!

[Sir Chris]

Google image searched, this looks cool enough I guess.

[Sir Chris]

But he didn't ignore me at all, he mentioned me in several of his posts actually, I don't think he specifically mentioned it in the way he did DoS, but he noted my play a lot, so you claiming he ignored that doesn't jive.

Also I am sure people have scumtells for literally every situation, that's kind of the point. Basically you can metagame your head off all day I suppose, but I don't see a problem with going after a lurker who when pressed quickly changed his vote and then hopped onto the nearest lynch and when he posted only found time to go into survival mode and not do anything offensive, only defensive.

Also just about anything can be a scumtell if twisted enough.

[Sir Chris]

How about you do the same and provide more content than "hey guys, I am going to be super pro town and make a half joke post and then say nothing else despite a good deal of content being posted since my last post."

So yeah, how about you get on track.

[Sir Chris]

How about you do the same and provide more content than "hey guys, I am going to be super pro town and make a half joke post and then say nothing else despite a good deal of content being posted since my last post."

So yeah, how about you get on track.

I've provided much more actual input than you have, so try to keep your facts straight.

RF took my post the right way, so kudos to him

Really? I think you've posted nothing but crap, huh. Different standards I guess yet again.

[Sir Chris]

Chris, I don't feel bothered by him ignoring you completely cuz he didn't.

It's the fact he called DoS out on something but not you when you both did very similar things.

I am thus wanting an explanation from

Raider

, not

you

.

By all means, though, keep responding to me for him.

Well I am not so much responding for him as responding on the fact that I think your point is baseless, full of crap, and needs to be examined by another player. That's why I responded.

[Sir Chris]

P.S. when examining content there is no such things as facts, by the way, all content and how it should be weighted is subjective, bad use of a cliched phrase imo.

[Sir Chris]

Actually, I do find that post rather useless, despite your implied sarcasm.

[Sir Chris]

I like that you are defending your own posts from early in the game, but uh, those posts from saber are crap.

[Sir Chris]

Well that last post was pretty good. I need to not use stuff like "all", it is rarely true.

[Sir Chris]

Poor Ray can't read.

Also rather than be man enough and take it, because frankly I am a total and complete bitch while I play mafia, I'll just note the following things about my mafia philosophy, and you'll probably call me a noob and say it is flawed and we'll all have fun.

1. I don't think you've really done more contentual (good word by the way) input than I have.
2. Well, given that the people saying that could very well be scum, I don't really care.
3. I am a bitch, tis true, but also I feel that constantly trying to spread out one's attention over many targets at the end of the day weakens your ability to catch scum on a whole, especially if scum is clever. I have talked about a lot of people, but I am not one to spread the love around equally. I think I have found scum, therefore I feel it is my duty to post about it a lot, get reactions, get people talking, start new chains, and just keep talking. I admit I am not the most pleasant person to play to, in part because I am trying my best to get my feet under me here, and I am used to playing in a place where I had a book of tells on just about every player.

I play paranoid, it is how I am. I view all of you as potential scum and when people say something that doesn't jive with me, I tend to wonder if it was scummy or just something that doesn't jive with me. My instincts and my mafia experience tells me that DoS is scum. Tunneling isn't always wrong, especially after I've given my thoughts on a variety of subjects. However if you feel I have missed any important subplots, do tell me, I am always interested in providing more broad content, even if I want to put a bullet into DoS.

[Sir Chris]

I am aware of that, I think I have too, though you obviously disagree.

Basically I am getting the feeling I am working on a different playbook than you guys. You think certain things are scummy, while my experience elsewhere says other stuff is scummy. Earlier in the topic I couldn't help but feel that I was just the newb being ignored. I mean, if you say I am wrong at least that is something.

[Sir Chris]

Fair enough.

BTW Frost, if it means anything to you, one of your posts gave me a sharp town read on you, so I'll give more weight to your opinions from now on.

[Sir Chris]

mafia theory post.

Also Hm, sure, let me try to restate it again.

Although DoS is a lurker, that isn't my "main" problem with him.

My problem is actually the posts he has provided moreso than the absence of them. I found it extremely scummy that he backed off so quickly on me at the first sign of me having a pulse in this game, as if he really wanted to avoid any sort of "trouble" that a lynch might have provided. I find it more likely that a rusty scum player would want to avoid trouble than a rusty town player. What further made me believe this is his vote on zwet, a person who fit the same archetype as myself as a 'safe lynch.' So I am voting him because I believe that his votes lack a genuine feel behind them that I come to expect from town who is earnestly trying to win the game.

I don't know if that is any better.

[Sir Chris]

Yes,but, why would he use his vote to encourage active play when he himself can't seem to encourage himself to play active? It isn't just the fact that he is lurking, it is that possible scenarios like yours come off as weird if that is truly what he is thinking.

[Sir Chris]

that was DoS.

[Sir Chris]

Getting the flu is not a fun thing.

Also I tend to fire from the hip more often than not, guess I'll have to make my points clearer from now on.

Also I find it jarring that pages after Ray and I stopped arguing people wanted to smack us around, those that did that should find better things to fill their posts other than "grrr @ arguing."

[Sir Chris]

Man, asking for an extension 17 days before deadline. Again, I am used to 48 hour days, this will take awhile to not amuse me greatly.

[Sir Chris]

Thought the big post of doom said deadline was the 26th at the start of the topic.

[Sir Chris]

Score one for my memory.

[Sir Chris]

Vote: DoS

Just a continuation of my previous vote, reading through the topic lightly, still got a bad fever to do with the flu, but I'll scrap something together.

[Sir Chris]

K so anyway I don't know how you folks are going to meta this but I sincerely hate being correct when it comes to bad townies who just roll over and die even though they are town and not scum. So yeah, good job on being bad zwet. I can't really wag a finger at people who voted for zwet as a whole (because 1. you can't all be scum and 2. because there appeared to be valid reasoning there)

But not to beat a dead horse, but DoS comes back in, posts a bit, votes a guy for the exact same reason he voted me, exact same reason he voted guy before me, same exact reason he voted zwet, and then has done.... nothing of note.

OK, so Zwet is dead, and we are down a town member. How about we do something awesome with our day 1, like kill scum. I note my previous post to do with DoS along with the fact his vote was on a confirmed townie (can't count overly much against him, as almost half the player list was on him) along with everything else. In my offsite experience, and from the browsing I have done here it can apply here too, scum will often go for people who don't say much/lurk because it is, in essence, a neutral tell.

Also you have given painfully little thoughts on me, really. You give thought on me when I backed you into a corner and you had to force your way out. Also I am again reading a scum tell from you because instead of just providing more content you defend yourself repeatedly into the ground, which is a novel idea to do as scum because it doesnt force you to generate new content. You post lightly, defend yourself into the ground (when you could be posting even more new content) and then vanish again. I was willing to cede a little bit of experience in the early going because I am new to this site and I don't know the metas and the playstyles just as well but I'll be damned if that flip of zwet when I had a hunch of it and DoS' continued scummy playstyle isn't starting to lead me to believe some stuff remains the same.

I've got a scum read on DoS, I would like every one to place their vote on this scummy bag of bones so when can lynch him and find a probable scum behind this mask of defense and vanishing and then we can all just be great friends and have cookies.

[Sir Chris]

Also SirPent has obviously played mafia a lot here before, he feels way too comfortable in his own skin to not be at ease. This doesn't indicate alignment for the purposes of this game (although if I was asked on my deathbed, would lean slightly scum just by just how practiced his posts seem) I just noticed people asked him if he had played before, and I thought it was worth a note.

[Sir Chris]

Goofy: But no worries. Even if this place goes poof, our hearts ain't goin' nowhere. I'm sure we'll find our pals again. Yup, I just know that we will.

The Tenth Vote Count:
SirPent (5): DrippingGoofball, RayFrost, Iecerint, Gorrad, saberwolf
Hayker (3): Papa Zito, Shotty to the Body, DragonsofSummer
Gorrad (1): Kise
MafiaSSK (1): Cobalt

Not Voting: wolframnhart, Hayker, Kdub, DTMaster, Deathnote, fuzzylightning, MafiaSSK, raider8169, Plum, Sajin, SirPent, Vaya, xRECKONERx, joe478, ace5993, Sir Chris

With 25 votes available, it will take 13 to lynch.

Starting to look for replacement for fuzzylightning. joe478 has told me he will be V/LA, but will most likely be replaced since his last post was November 28.

OK, reasonable Chris is over. I don't care how reasonable or "good" I look if this is the votals I am going to be seeing.

So zwet is dead, what do we do? Just conjure up two new wagons just like that. You guys just piss me off, I've got to say. Wrong on one lynch, gee, let's just hop on another. I also have not seen the main thrusts against SirPent in terms of a scum suspect but the fact DoS continues to repeat the same behavior in cycles of minimal content, votes a player for small posting, defends himself and nothing but defends himself, then disappears. Also I took a brief look in his game log and his style here just seems so jarring from his past games, he seems to be a good player too which is why I am questioning such, frankly, outright pathetic play on his part.

I'll also say this again: A mark of a good scum team is deflecting suspicion off of its members. Now, if we didnt get a nice shot through zwet's heart, day one would have just ended with a scum victory, ie scum not dying, so as far as I am concerned, scum 1, town 0 in terms of moving the flow of the lynch. So how about instead of hopping onto the next gravy train, just slow down a little bit, try to reverse direction instead of leaping, and give more consideration.

Because I'd just be over the moon if DoS died today.

You guys don't know me very well, just a collection of posts, me arguing here and there, and me getting over excited. But I feel it in my bones, that DoS is scum. Everything really adds up to it quite nicely. His every vote seems to make a mockery of honest scum hunting. His continued defense of himself in such a way that it really adds nothing to the game. His long absences as he provides such bad content.

Focus more on the bad player who is radiating 'I am scum, please tell me town.' if you don't mind.

[Sir Chris]

Also if scum wants to use their power to kill a member of town who was almost lynched on the off chance they are going to lead another town wagon...

Then either we collectively are really screwed if they can actually pull that off

they are really screwed for being dumb

or the guy that shot a person right in the middle of the day is not scum

heavily leaning that last one.

[Sir Chris]

I have seen this scene play out a ton with scum controlling the influence of the game.

Scum helped on that zwet lynch, as I said before, getting that many votes that fast was truly worrisome, and I should have spoken up more, even though there was good logic. Which is part of the problem, scum can have good logic to lynch a lot of people, good logic on someone can lead to a lot of mislynches, which is why people have got to scum hunt actively themselves so they can get information on their terms, and not rely on people to provide them the logic and be like "sold."

I believe scum hunting is such an important aspect of being town. I also, as you are starting to find out, believe tunneling is a in fact a good practice if it is towards the result you want. I am used to 48 hour days, and I have spent a lot of time discussing other people and areas of discussion. That needs to stop now. I believe someone is scum. I want them, with all of my heart, to be dead today. I am aware there can be other scum but as my earlier post indicated my faith is a bit shaken here. That type of zwet lynch (classic dumb and bad townie being lynched) is the mark of a decent scum team. Pulled off easily, without much effort, and it railroaded any other lynch. We lost a townie because we got dominated. There is no other way to look at it. I firmly believe that mafia is a battle of will, of effort, and of scum hunting. True scum hunting versus the real deal.

DoS defends himself but he doesn't feel pressure. That is such a scumtell. It is so easy to go "blah blah blah blah defense" like he has, but a person who truly feels the pressure to change their play will change their play. How many times have I said he needs to be more active, to post more, to stop his own overzealous defenses, to pop in more. Has he done it? No. He posts a couple of times, defends himself a lot, posts observations that lack insight, and then go away. Because he sees a zwet lynch get pulled off that smoothly and looks at all of my posts being brushed to the side and feels utterly safe in his scummy little haven.

and DoS, IF you are town, you have to stop acting so scummy. You've been playing this game for years, you must know what is required of you as town.As town, you have an obligation to lead town after a town member is dead instead voting a wagon with a few words. This is not the same man I saw giving notes to newbies after a game and trying to better them. I refuse to believe this is the best you have to offer. I simply refuse that this is town play at its best, rust or not.

Damnit, I am mad.

[Sir Chris]

*Tilts Head*

That was some pretty insane skewing of that post, Goofball. He essentially said my exact stance on zwet 'not who I want to be lynch, but I see the reasoning.'

And... uh, frankly, any loss of town is bad. I forget how crucial you were on that zwet lynch, but you flat out failed.

[Sir Chris]

The only reason I say the loss of town is bad aside from the obvious, is you sure as hell aren't holding yourself accountable for a bad lynch, and that's unacceptable. If you want to lynch bad townies all day with your excuse "b-but they played badly", just hope on the scum team now please, thanks.

[Sir Chris]

The only reason I say the loss of town is bad aside from the obvious, is you sure as hell aren't holding yourself accountable for a bad lynch, and that's unacceptable.

Pffft! zwet was a fantastic lynch. Zwet is more useful dead than alive. Pretending to be sad over a zwet lynch is what scum does for town cred. Honest townies hold a parade.

If you want to lynch bad townies all day with your excuse "b-but they played badly", just hope on the scum team now please, thanks.

Oh wait - did I want zwet lynched because he played badly? I wanted him dead because he was posting very little for him, and because I believed his buddies were bus'ing him.

Nice to see that you know I'm town, with you urging me to hop[sic] on the scum team now.

1. I am aware, but you aren't being accountable.
2. I tend to give a town slant to most players, just how I am "by default." I am well aware you could be scum and your vote on raider with that bad reasoning and your casual dismissal of your mistake/being manipulated to have a mislynch/JUST AS PLANNED MWHAHAHA scum thing. But, like I said, I just town slant people until I want to accuse them of being scum. Hell, even after I accuse them of being scum I'll talk about them from a town perspective at times to make a point.

Also why is DoS doing ever so well, Goofball. or DGB I guess is your real nickname. I think I am going to like you, you and I have the same fun to win ratio beliefs when it comes to mafia.

[Sir Chris]

Oh, and while there are indeed certain players that I know from where I play that "parade" for being dead would be my attitude, I can't help but have regret when DoS still draws breath, and if that is a scumtell then you got a messed up book of scum tells.

[Sir Chris]

Your diction in your posts, your use of common mafia lingo, how you refer to mafia situations. It is how I would expect someone with a lot of experience to post.

[Sir Chris]

I love votes without reason, its epitome of my game

[Sir Chris]

Also why is DoS doing ever so well, Goofball. or DGB I guess is your real nickname. I think I am going to like you, you and I have the same fun to win ratio beliefs when it comes to mafia.

yes fun is what it's all about.

DoS always sets my scumdar on fire. I recently pushed for his lynch and he flipped town (so was I), so I'm a little singed.

Ah, I see. Yeah, that stops me a bit. I don't know, part of my problem here is I am used to coming from a place where I can write a book of tells on all of the best players, and it is a tell best game. This is the first honest to goodness flat out instinct, reading, and mafia intellect scumhunting I have had to do in a year. DoS helps my beliefs more and more, and I am ill at ease to sink my teeth into another project until I see how my ability to read scum is going. I am slightly emboldened now because my read of the zwet situation was right on the money though. Plus, it seems it is easy to dismiss a new players opinion, and it is something I would do as scum.

[Sir Chris]

Well I wouldn't expect someone with no experience to say the phrase 'epitome of my game.' It is something I would say as a joke perhaps, and I have played mafia since 2001.

'I didn't think the vig was a good shot at first because the lynch of zwet would've gotten the same result. But now that I look at how it is day 1 and two people dieing before scum get action a vig made since. '

Has an insight to it that I think takes experience

but....

it doesnt matter

as I said, it doesnt mean much to your alignment. In fact, I would be honored if I was actually a new player who seemed to be experienced, not quesioning.

But maybe that's just me.

[Sir Chris]

I am left wondering what I wished for.

[Sir Chris]

Oh, sure.

[Sir Chris]

Also whoever had the thought of "I named every single person from KH with a gun, he claimed the one that would reasonably be town, I FORCED HIM TO CLAIM IT!"

should just be slapped and told to go to their respective rooms.

[Sir Chris]

I think 3 was mockery.

[Sir Chris]

saberwolf why did you just ask that random question that has no bearing on alignment.

[Sir Chris]

Good answer, leaning town now.

[Sir Chris]

DoS is being so damn stupid he can't even read the fact THAT I SAID I WAS NOW TUNNELING ON HIM.

And it is given hardly a mention.

This is such obvious mafia bullshit people.Open your god damn eyes. I have played mafia for eight years and I have seen this exact same scene play out before me hundreds of times here. DoS, if he had even fully READ the posts I had posted, would know I admitted to tunnelling now and I noted it is needed.

I post 5 posts against someone, and all you stupid bastards can do is vote the player giving content. Also Gorrad looks bad too, so I like that read from DGB

Seriously people, if you are just going to keep getting swept away in the idiocy of the moment and ignore my excellent case against DoS I am going to have to get uglier and uglier. I tried being nice, I tried posting a lot, but it seems you are content not to listen.

Fine.

Have it your way.

There is going to be blood for this.

lots of it.

[Sir Chris]

Note: That was figurative, not role related.

[Sir Chris]

I mean the first thing that stands out to be about the top two lynches is I don't trust everyone on them. I have not liked Gorrad or DoS all day and both of them are voting for those people, so that makes me nervous. People voting DGB make me sad too because DGB is just rolling around having a good time and while the possibility of scum is there, a person providing this much content with this much cheer with no obvious scum tells out of hand (aside from voting for raider which I still believe makes no sense, but town is allowed to not make sense in theory...) is disturbing. A common mafia thing is to not recycle old lynch targets, move onto news ones instead of stay right where you are. Frankly, I have not heard ONE good defense of DoS. Not one from another player not DoS. We have a lot of people not voting him. Why? Who is so important we can't just stab DoS in the face. Just stab and stab and stab until he quits breathing and we see his role. It was initially brushed to the side for zwet, which I found understandable, a mistake on my part, but then we got two new fresh lynch trains with barely ANY logic on them and I am calling massive bullshit. If you have a reason not to vote DoS, NOT 'I like this person better', but a reason for thinking DoS is town.

Post it.

Just post it.

I KNOW YOU PEOPLE READ MY POSTS, I HAVE TOO MANY OF THEM TO IGNORE.

[Sir Chris]

Cobalt, how about you vote DoS so he posts something worthwhile.

Or he gets lynched and dies

either works.

[Sir Chris]

Thank You.

See folks? It is that easy. Let's lynch some scum. Unless, you can defend him. If so, do so. Defend his towniness if you disagree. However, if all you have to say is "but I like this guy better...!" just vote him. Your guy will be there another day, or maybe he'll die before you get to him. Let's get some focus on this town. We've got to stop running in the wrong directions, it is time to do good.

[Sir Chris]

I hope SirChris is RPing his character with that absurd tone. I like reading his posts.

I think foil's poor play ("Great job! More flavor discussion, please, Hayker!") and SerPent's inability to make unique or compelling observations about the game coupled with evidence that he is reading said game make him a better target. DoS doesn't seem any different from the prior game I played with him (the same one DGB mentioned), so I'm less comfortable with that option atm.

However if he is indeed new his inability to make compelling observations is easily explained away with a whopping case of "I haven't played mafia before." Or he could just be bad.

BTW, which specific game are you talking about? I'll give it a look over.

Also I am not RPing, I am sick, frustrated, and at least want people to either vote the scummy guy, or like you, give reasons why you don't want to vote him. I want people to be accountable for their opinions and their votes at this juncture.

[Sir Chris]

k brb, reading!

[Sir Chris]

"Hooray for omgus in the RVS! Where very little seems to matter much. I'll tell you one thing I am 100% sure that DBG will agree voting her is a scumtell! Laughing"

Three posts in and his tone sounds wildly different to me, by the way.

"Crap... I thought we were past you thinking I am scum on day one every single game we play in DGB! (Aside to MordyS, there is no seriousness in the reasons used to vote you by myself, and really its a joke to the period where every game DGB and I were in together she decided I was scum in the RVS of day 1).

Also MordyS those sort of statements are just DGB's playstyle, you get used to it. "

I mean, for one he posts a few times, which is more than here, and he seems much looser and at ease in his own skin already. Am I the only one seeing a vastly different DoS?

[Sir Chris]

oh geesh that is such 'hesitant townie or hesitant scum, pick one" that it isn't even a clear scum tell. Focus better, reckoner.

also

"@Mordy: What do you have against the use of metas? I understand you have only been with the site about 7 months now, and only played 3 games as a part of it, but why should that limit other people from using the metas they have on players, especially on the first few pages? "

He is actually like, probing. I have not seen probing here at all.

This reads like an entirely different person to me, to be honest, guys. It makes me feel even better about wanting DoS's head on a platter.

[Sir Chris]

Ignore what the other people says, joe: I hate you for that vote.

[Sir Chris]

Um, no. "Convince me to vote someone" = "I'm too lazy to scumhunt, so I'm gonna blatantly say that you guys need to tell me who to vote for".

"I am bad and have no reads, please help me."

Bad player, not always scum. Don't 'no' me. Not in the mood to be 'no'd at the moment. Also you did not do what I asked and tell me why you are not voting for DoS. Do that.

[Sir Chris]

Also I'll note as town it was sure as hell a lot easier for people to vote DoS than it is here.

[Sir Chris]

Did I talk about this in the the post before yours by asking him to give DoS reasoning, or do you mean something else.

[Sir Chris]

OK, that's cool.

Man, if I knew you guys would have responded to my more blunt candor, I would have done it sooner. This is whta happens when I try to be polite and civil, it gets in the way of scum hunting ;_;.

[Sir Chris]

No, that's perfect. Absolutely perfect. I love you now, I'd give you a hug but I'd probably give you the flu.

Thanks for helping out, you hapless townie you!

[Sir Chris]

See, this is what happens when people actually have to try to come up with reasons for defending DoS from death: They can't really do it. People jsut get preoccupied, see this isn't tunnelling, it is focusing! Totally different!

[Sir Chris]

My apologies, I am quoting from another game when I am doing quotes. I am bad at this.

[Sir Chris]

Also I happened in here, Papa Zito. No more nice Chris, it is time to paint the streets with whatever color blood DoS has in his veins.

[Sir Chris]

Because he is very scummy when he posts disappears like the wind, defends himself, and despite what other said, his tone is completely different in defending himself and attacking others than in a very recent town game of his.

[Sir Chris]

Because he is very scummy when he posts disappears like the wind, defends himself, and despite what other said, his tone is completely different in defending himself and attacking others than in a very recent town game of his.

The devil is in the details, Sir Chris. I'm not swayed by rhetoric, provide proof.

Also boo meta.

Um, I have posted about thirty posts about DoS, including a couple with quotes on the last page. How about you go find them instead of asking me to repost information I have posted a lot.

[Sir Chris]

Well too bad, I think something gets lost in translation. So either you can actually do what you are supposed to, and read the damn topic, or you can continue arguing with me about you wanting to be lazy. Your call.

[Sir Chris]

and inability to read a topic is a big thumbs down from me. That tells me you were wanting a case handed to you instead of forming your own opinions based off posts that happened in real time.

[Sir Chris]

Man raider you and me are like brothers who got lost at birth.

[Sir Chris]

I mean that was such a classic. "Man, you post for dozens of pages how you want this guy dead, resatate your points dozens of times, light a fire under people, but when a lazy player asks you to be concise even though you've reposted your message a lot, and thus it is clear this player has not read the topic, CLEARLY YOU WERE NOT SCUM HUNTING!!!"

What a bad post.

[Sir Chris]

It reflects back onto you to, that isn't how it works. I have posted a metric ton about him, more over, I have condensed my thoughts before. This isn't about me, this is about you now, I am afraid. I have posted my case against him in one posts quite a few times, go find it. You said aggressive was good, well this is aggressive me. It is telling to me that you can say the things you do because you haven't read the topic. i am not failing, you are the one that is failing.

[Sir Chris]

But you know what, I've got scum to catch, which may or may not include you Zito, so I am going to just let your utter failure go for the moment and give you a nice big summary. I am such a nice and humble guy like that.

Also that MJ gif never gets old.

1. His voters have been a combo of bandwagony and bad, his reasoning while voting has never been thought our or unique.
2. He has been hypocritical when it comes to his voting styles, voting people who exhibit the same behavior as he does.
3. When he meets resistance he sheds his vote quite easily. I find it scummy when people unvote from resistance instead of clear logic. When he met resistance with me, he unvoted. Really quickly. Instead of going "hey he is just posting because I voted him for it", he completely absolved me of my sins and backed off faster than anything I could ever consider town-like.
4. His posting style is wildly different here than it was in a game where he was town. He posts less, defends himself more, and attacks far less. In Movie Madness, his posts are a lot more fluid, a lot less rigid, and he seems more sure of himself. Here he comes off as nervous, stiff, and has an overwhelming need to defend himself before providing content. There he let votes slide off of him, here he is very concerned when people vote him and he defends himself into the ground.

I have found this behavior to be scummy, he has not altered that behavior, making me believe his defense of himself is not genuine, because if someone was really that worried about being suspected I think they would change their play for the better, which he has proven as town he has the ability to play better.

Now, as I said, I am sure much has lost in the translation because of either your laziness or scuminess, but there you go.

[Sir Chris]

edit: Votes, not voters.

[Sir Chris]

Also it is the first time I have ever been accused of being stupid because someone didn't want to read the topic. Who knows how many potential scumtells you could have caught if you read this topic through, assuming you are town.

[Sir Chris]

No wanting to note who you think may be scummy on your wagon?

No pointing out where you have provided content thats substantial?

Just a meh?

Really? That's all you got for me? I manage to convince a lot of people and you just give a single line of defense and that's all? That's kinda anti-climatic.

I am unsure what the official policy on claims is, but I'd like one sooner rather than later if that's all you are going to provide in terms of commentary.

[Sir Chris]

And yes, Gorrad, I thought about that. But I think it is WIFOM, honestly. He is playing a certain way and I think he is trying to head fake me at this point. What an odd post. It seems town in a way, yet not his town. As I said, I looked over his last game and he just had an air about him he doesn't have here. That was just a really jarring post.

[Sir Chris]

Also the fact that you've looked pretty meh to me today, Gorrad, and are bringing up WIFOM arguments on someone I think is scum, worries me.

[Sir Chris]

If you say so.

[Sir Chris]

Anyway these quotes are ALL from the movie madness game, where he was town. Notice how he defends and attacks there, and tell me if there is no difference, in fact, that's a huge difference.

For your first point, its a discrepancy in how you view logic and I view it, I still think its logic that DGB compared the play to previous Vaya games and said oh this is how he acted in that situation, and he is acting similar here. That is logical to me.

True but you actually laid out your case against me in earnest finally. I still think your case is WIFOMy at best, the case you have on me is that I am "buddying" with DGB. It is based largely on my random vote where I called you scummy for voting her as a joke. You took that and ran with it, and are now trying to make later facts fit your theory. You are saying that I am obviously scum for buddying with DGB, when really I haven't buddied with DGB at all. (See my explanation of my Vaya vote).

I don't think you magically did anything, I do however think that for whatever reason Ice decided that I wasn't joking either, and thought you had a reason to vote me because of it. My read on Ice is neutral right now.

You are scummy because you latched onto me at the beginning of the day with that vote and haven't looked anywhere else (except for DGB, and CKD slightly) since it started. Iece was merely commenting on the precedings and has been looking at all the players.

So I was trying to work it out, and you are right WIFOM is the wrong thing. I can't think of the word or term for what it is you are doing right now, but simply put this is what I see, You voted me for my random vote, and now have been harping on it ever since, with no other evidence to support your theories, you are forcing other posts of mine to fit it, but they don't. (Maybe its a fallacy of some sort? I've forgotten)

Wait... your gut tells you I am scummier? Didn't you just attack CKD for a gut vote on the last page MordyS?

Also besides my Vaya vote, which I feel I have explained, point out one place to me after we left the RVS that I was buddying with DGB?

Wait, why am I scum now DGB? I was on your neutral list all of yesterday.

I'm with DGB on the claiming, it actually seems like scum trying to find out who the most powerful townies are on day 2 so they can get rid of them tonight. Especially with this few "active" players.

That said I also agree that Jason should investigate whoever he wants to. With six players left that have votes, it is all too likely that scum are going to try and direct our lynch today (if I am right and there is more than one "active" scum today), and they will do their best to direct night actions as well.

vote Populartajo

the more I think about it, the worse the claiming idea becomes, and you have made a crap case against Vaya as DGB said.

Fine, as I am at lynch -1. I am Bruce Willis, My role yesterday was David Dunn from Unbreakable and I couldn't die, The night action for that role is to see what someone did on the previous night, but since there wasn't one I couldn't do anything last night. Today I am John McClane from Die Hard, I can either vig someone or Send someone to jail tonight. My other movies are the Sixth Sense and Armageddon. I win with the town. I also call poptaj and possibly vaya as being scum on my wagon.

I really don't like how Milkshake pretty much disappeared when pressure went on me and it seems like he might be trying to slide through the day.

This game was very recent to, so no amount of 'rust' excuse makes sense for it. This just seems like town play vs scum play.

[Sir Chris]

Unvote

There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser

his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

I mean this just seems so rigid in comparison to his town posts just a game ago. He has no life in him, like he is pressing himself. Like there is no energy his posts, seems clearly to contrast the ones from the other game.

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

"Ah but Chris" just seems so measured and lifeless compared to the fire I see in his town posts.

I bring this up a lot because one of the things that people were hung up on is that they got burned by voting him in a previous game and he flipped town. Well, he isn't acting similar in any way, shape, or form. So that note can be put to rest.

[Sir Chris]

Edit: That last post was from this game, in case you were not guessing.

[Sir Chris]

I don't know, maybe I am misreading it, but I truly do feel, given everything else I've seen this day 1, and the posts I read from his previous play, that this is a ploy.

[Sir Chris]

I don't know, maybe I am misreading it, but I truly do feel, given everything else I've seen this day 1, and the posts I read from his previous play, that this is a ploy.

Who is this referring to?

Starbuck replaces fuzzylightning!

YAY

Your point about DoS' general deposition.

[Sir Chris]

I'm recently back from a break, my play style will be a little different than it was previously just based on time passed. Chris, I am not saying that you shouldn't look at me, I am just saying it appears you are looking at no one else (i.e. tunneling).

And I'm not saying they will ignore it forever, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people have other concerns with other players they feel to be a better option than I am right now, so they are working those options instead.

You really feel I am being rigid and formal?

Also if you want to do more background on me or any player if you click on their profile you can look at all posts made by them through that (and as such games they have been in).

For more reference, mostly because I finally found the button that allowed me to track posts by one user. I made several notations about 'rust' and this was not out of context, because he made an excuse about his tone being different due to a break, which appears very false.

[Sir Chris]

And because it appears that DoS' lynch is going well, some other stuff to keep in mind.

Gorrad: I didn't like him from the start of day, and I am very weird about him still. I can offer nothing in the way of concrete suspicion, I just don't like his mannerisms. He appears very slick in his wording and his suspicions don't ring true, also his defense of DoS seems almost well timed, and if I am indeed correct about DoS being scum I would follow up with a heaping side of dead Gorrad tomorrow if at all possible because of his mentioning of the wifom defense.

[Sir Chris]

ok, so chris, I looked over it, and I have come to the following conclusion:

You are both town.

You seem like the disgruntled townie. Scum would make a better case than you presented. As scum, DoS would be more likely to remain active to prove a point to continue to make you look bad.

On the flip side of things, if DoS is town, this post just rubs me the wrong way. I don't suspect DoS is going to flip town (if you hadn't gotten that hint yet) but I feel obligated to point this out, as this is the sole person who has actually looked at DoS heavily and said "seems town to me."

[Sir Chris]

Everyone can be wrong, you and I included. As I said, it isn't a heavy suspicion, but one I feel I should note as I noted it a lot earlier in the game, but moved on from it completely to focus my efforts on DoS.

[Sir Chris]

I have a % system I use for thinking people are scum.

The most I will ever be sure of someone is scum without any other knowledge day one is 80%.

I am at about 85% right now with DoS given zwet's town flip.

[Sir Chris]

Well, the thing is, one post in a sea of many, what is more likely: He has one "townish" post in a sea of many not as town and doesn't help town at all with that attitude, or he is scum trying to fake us?

[Sir Chris]

No one is impressed, least of all me. However, there is a common held belief that scum simply rolling over like he did there is extremely rare.

[Sir Chris]

Interesting Scum List.

Let me go back to ISO and retrieve your thoughts on me.

[Sir Chris]

OK for some fun, I have compiled EVERY post from DoS aside from his last few that mention me aside from referencing me for something unrelated to his perception of me/interaction with me.

I don't think the voice matters much right now, it can't really help/hurt is either way so early as we have no idea what to make of it. I would guess scum, though.



I haven't liked any of Gorrad's posts, they seem to really dance around any issue and aren't, how to say, impressive to me.

unvote vote Sir Chris

Why do you feel the voice is any less important than any other player in the game? Why do you think it is scum related?

Also his posts have had zero content and have thrown around suspicion on players with no real reasoning. The quoted post is good evidence of such.

I would like to point out that Sir Chris who has said as little (of relevance) as foilist showed up when I posted a case against him and then disappeared again. Way way way scummy.

That is all.

Unvote

There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser

his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

OK so at this point those three posts are "Chris is not doing his scummy thing anymore." I am following you so far.

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

Here he appears to be reasonable, "Hey Chris, while it is OK for you attacking me, here's why I am not dirty scum, I am not being a hypocrite!"

Chris you are tunnelling. Its a bad thing. In general on this site if people are ignoring it, it is because they don't believe it worth talking about at that point in time.

Here he relies on "the site" to back him up, but he doesn't really seem very suspicious of me.

I'm recently back from a break, my play style will be a little different than it was previously just based on time passed. Chris, I am not saying that you shouldn't look at me, I am just saying it appears you are looking at no one else (i.e. tunneling).

And I'm not saying they will ignore it forever, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people have other concerns with other players they feel to be a better option than I am right now, so they are working those options instead.

You really feel I am being rigid and formal?

Also if you want to do more background on me or any player if you click on their profile you can look at all posts made by them through that (and as such games they have been in).

Here he outright says that I have a right to look his way. Also when I look in his background my notes are confirmed, ironically.

To answer the one question in your post, similar behavior is not necessarily scummy for two different people. Point out where I have tunneled and I will explain why its not. It doesn't seem I can win with you, either I am tunneling by defending myself from accusations, or I am just "shrugging" off what my attackers are saying by giving it minimal notice. You can't have both, pick the one you want and stop attacking me for the other.

You call me calling out Chris for lurking scummy because I was lurking too. Fine, but at least I was putting my opinions out there on someone. Which I did not feel he had done. Which was my actual case, not the lurking itself, and I would appreciate if people would stop mischaracterizing what I did.

Also note, that when I am attacking a player for what I feel is scummy my thoughts on other players is not nearly as important though they are there, and I don't feel the need to divulge every thought I have about the rest of the players in this game to stop giving the impression that I am tunneling. If thats how you see it, you and I just have a different view of how to play the game, its as simple as that.

I could note that when I was not here I had a vote down on Gorrad for reasons that are persisting a little bit, but beyond that, he still really hasn't given any thoughts on me, just a couple of notes to this point.

@Raider: How about my thoughts on Chris? Or my thoughts on you? You can't omit them just because you disagree with them. Also I believe that thoughts on 4 players at this point in the game is more than adequate. I know you disagree lets not argue that point because it will have the same result as an unstoppable force hitting an immovable object.

How about your thoughts on Chris indeed...

DoS, you never seem to stick to your cases very hard. Generally when someone finds someone suspsicious, they keep going after them. You seem to hop form person to person, and never make more then an indirect reference to that person(specifically) again.

You have shown suspiscion for:Me,SirChris, Zwet and then Joe. You pursued Chris for awhile, but stopped, and went after the Zwet. After Zwet died, you targetted the next lurker, me.

You are right, I stopped attacking chris when he changed the behavior I was attacking him for. Zwet is dead, that ended that attack. I'm not attacking Joe for lurking but nice effort at that. Neither am I attacking you for lurking. I am attacking you because up until the last page where you had a ton of completely ludicrous statements you have done no scum hunting and tried to make it look like you were contributing with huge block posts explaining what happened in the KH games. Saying a lot, while saying nothing.

@Raider: I attacked Chris first, and just because I gave my thoughts after you gave yours on me doesn't make them any less valid.

On a related note, did anyone else notice, that in all of chris's posts on the last couple pages only 1 (thats all I can remember but it might have been 2) didn't include an urgent call for my lynch? Anybody else wanna say he isn't tunneling now?

He even notes here he stopped attacking me, and doesn't really make a point to say he changed his mind again. Huh.

Ooh Chris has convinced some people, and there is now a wagon on me. All I have to say is at this point I have posted way more than you are giving me credit for Chris, and given thoughts on multiple players.

Also I still <3 you dgb it would kill you not to be on a wagon on me I know.

My thoughts on all this. meh.

Again, he doesn't really give thoughts, he just says I've convinced people, statement of fact really.

You say I've been defending myself most of the game but I disagree, I've been having conversations with people about their suspicion of me. All I bring to the town is my vote, so if I am lynched today thats fine, the town could do a lot worse with its d1 lynch. I do think that when I flip town chris and raider should be under a ton of scrutiny tomorrow also cobalt.

Then suddenly me and raider should be lynched, OK.

and then finally

Chris keeps telling me to post a defense, when really all I would say against his case has been posted before and I see no reason to post it all again.

Also for when I am dead because I feel fairly certain that no matter what I say will change the lynch away from me today.

My top 5 scums:
Sir Chris
Raider
Cobalt
Hayker
Joe478

Thats all I got.

Also Iec, at the rate my wagon was growing I wanted to make sure I could get at least a partial claim out there before my lynch in case I wasn't back before it happened, so I put that part. I don't intend to claim my full role until L-1.

I am at the top of his scum list.

Am I the only person not seeing the logical jump here?

[Sir Chris]

Since everyone is so busy how about we just go ahead and finish DoS and we can all enjoy a nice long christmas break.

[Sir Chris]

Omgus noted Hayker.

Also for those asking, that list isn't in any particular order, those are just my top five suspects, and as for chris. Lets see. His period of ranting at me, contains a blatant statement of tunneling, various AtE's and overall bullying of the rest of the town. What is there to like about him?

Awww, the newbie player is now bullying? That's not nice =(. Also I have no idea what AtEs are.

[Sir Chris]

Actually that was the mocking people who called me a newbie card, not so much the newbie card. =P

Also appeals to emotion more like "hey guys how has DoS looked good, read his posts and tell me." everyone: oh, he looks like crap, let's vote him.

Really appealing to pure emotion there, I am.

[Sir Chris]

Unless me getting angry at being ignored is appealing to emotion, if so, sure.

[Sir Chris]

I've got a scum read on DoS, I would like every one to place their vote on this scummy bag of bones so when can lynch him and find a probable scum behind this mask of defense and vanishing and

then we can all just be great friends and have cookies

.

Bolded part.

You guys just piss me off, I've got to say. Wrong on one lynch, gee, let's just hop on another

I can't help but have regret when DoS still draws breath, and if that is a scumtell then you got a messed up book of scum tells.

Those are just a few of the statements you made that appeal to emotion in some fashion.

The bolded part, for the very big record, was me being a smartass.

[Sir Chris]

but yeah, I do appeal to emotion a lot in general, I just think those are bad examples of me doing it.

[Sir Chris]

-1, -3, mafia isn't really in the details I have found.

Also while I am slightly biased here due to the fact that I have said everything he has ever posted in the history of ever appears scummy to me, beast a townie, having played the kingdom hearts games, just seems weird.

But, I try not to let the flavor control my reads, and that is why I am glad I have thrown the book at him.

Of note, I will say my read on raider is dependent on DoS being scum. If DoS is scum, I am feeling A+ about him not being on that same scum team, at the least. At the time of his piping up I was nothing more than a newbie (to outsiders and other players this game) talking too much, and he really came to bat and looked up my case, and I am pretty sure he was the first to take a hard look. If DoS flips town, this looks to be some sort of buddying practice (I think that's what it was called) and makes him look worse, although I still think he sounds town either way, just need to get my ducks in a row.

I am so used to dying night one, it happened about 90% of the time where I play, it is why I stopped. Hell, even died when I was Bulletproof.

Anyway, as I said a bit more jokingly before. Holidays are coming up, and no one has really stated, in my estimate at least, a strong objection to this lynch on the basis that DoS seems so positively good and wholesome.

Unless I missed it.

[Sir Chris]

Perhaps. I must ask, DoS, where did that fire of yours go? It makes me sad when a seemingly good player just tanks. It is disappointing, I expected to either be proven wrong by a fiery rebuttal at some point during this long argument of mine or confirmed with an even more fiery defense. You just kind of went under on me. In fact, these last moments are the most town you've ever seemed all game, and that's only because you take the situation lightly. You are a troublesome player, DoS.

[Sir Chris]

Logic is insulted that you invoke its name sake for your arguments, by the way.

[Sir Chris]

Well, I look at those such as this:

What is the purpose of tunneling as scum?

To focus in on a player you want lynched to hurt town.

What is the purpose of tunneling as town?

To focus in on a player you want lynched to help town.

Now, doing that as scum you tend to do it early and often, focus your efforts and just never let go. (you here is me, by the way, take notes!)

I, as town, on the other hand, did my best to discuss other players and make motes on them. If I am not supposed to try with every inch of my soul to get you lynched when I find you absolutely scummy, sorry. Not how I am programmed. I feel I would be doing a disservice to town if I did not fight with every bit of effort I have to nail you to the wall. As the day wore on, I grew bolder by your responses. Finally my first gut was revealed to be accurate, and it also proved that this town was not heading in the right direction. Where I come from, I am a game changer. My very presence shifts the foundation of games, I am used to it. So when my scumdar is so brightly lit to a single person, I have to push them. I don't know anyone's alignment here, people who I could trust could be scum, people who I think are scummy could be the town's savior one day. So, with that in mind, I push hard. Tunneling I admit is one phrase for what I do. Another is trying.

Also AtEs are just how I am, and so is bullying. null tell on me, for future reference.

[Sir Chris]

Okay, I'm back. Opinions time. On my first read-through of the stuff I missed, Hayker seemed incredibly scummy, but reading him in iso he just seems like bad-town, so idk. Wouldn't mind a lynch of him either way.

I'm going to agree with RECKONER, most of your "reasons" are utter crap DGB. That is the problem with spamming too many nonsense posts, people can use them as "scumtells".

I'm not liking the bandwagon on DoS at all - SirChris, first you reprimand us for starting quick bandwagons on zwet and hayker, yet are perfectly fine to start one on DoS. Your posts LOOK like they have a lot of content, but your argument basically boils down to: DoS played different in this game where he was town, DoS hasn't posted enough, and DoS was voting for me for bad reasons. Yes DoS played different in the other game, but many things could explain that. People play differently in different roles, it's not as clear cut as you seem to think. Lurking is always a great scumtell, but MANY other players are also lurking (DeathNote, MafiaSSK, Hayker before he was called out, and DTMAster just to name a few). It seems the only thing you find more scummy about DoS is that he voted for you.

Along with this you basically have been bullying the town to get them to vote with you (appeals to emotion are bullying in this game), have completely ignored scumtells on any other player, and have generally been very argumentative.

I'll

Vote: SirChris

for now, but I'll switch my vote to Hayker if it is necessary to get a lynch. The DoS wagon gets the official "ace seal of disapproval."

Huh, interesting.

1. I don't think it counts as quick when my words fell on deaf ears for a good twenty or thirty pages and the only reason I am getting a word in now is because a dayvig offed the leading vote getter who I couldn't get nearly anyone to budge from. So yeah, I can see the many problems you'd have with this being a quick lynch that I compared to zwet's except not really.

2. I mostly didn't like the hayker one because DoS was on it, just to be blunt.

3. Of course I am perfectly fine starting one on someone I believe I am scum, that's the point.

4. Actually, my argument didn't really have much to do with the other game, but if someone came in a topic trying to make a splash and looking all impressive, and only skimmed instead of using that iso feature I finally figured out, I could see where you might come to that conclusion. However what you fail to understand is that my entire point about his other game was merely a smaller subsection of my argument labeled "looking at people weirdly for claiming he played similarly in this game with another game." My broad argument, before that, reposted about twenty times I believe, was that, and I quote, "He votes for lurkers, then lurks, then comes off totally defensive,and then goes back away again." Smartassed and completely rough in its translation, but that's a rough estimate.

5. There's more than one scum to be fair, only can pick one a day (er, well, maybe not.) I chose DoS today and I like my case and his responses have been scummy and more scummy, with the exception of his relaxed attitude, but it isn't overwhelming me with its towniness, nor logical conclusion. (This was to the lurker part btw)

6. Yes, clearly,I only think DoS is scummy because he voted for me around 50 pages ago. Well done. I just typed everything else for the giggles. You are clearly the next Sherlock Holmes of this generation. Or maybe, his voting of me caught my attention, I did a ton of work, research, and pressuring, and I just found to be scummy. But ya know, your theory might make more sense.

[Sir Chris]

What's scummy to you? I'll tell you right now though, if you tailor every player to one specific kind of scummy, I think you are pretty bad.

[Sir Chris]

edit a couple of posts ago: I believe I am scum

meant to say: I believe to be scum

[Sir Chris]

Oh, this is his first real game. OK, that explains it. Well that's fine, I mean I was going to say your post didn't really seem scummy whatsoever, just kinda disjointed, bad, and weird. Also I don't expect any scum at this point to have the nerve to vote for me after the slaughtering I have laid upon DoS (and now I have wifomed that possibility, oops. Also if DoS is turn I will sincerely beat the crap out of my own scumdar, it is true.)

[Sir Chris]

I still maintain that I have no cookies to give to anyone. That was a total lie. Lynch all liars? : (

Also sure, I tunnel. Who cares? I'll tell you what, if you are scum like I think you are nobody in town is going to care if I fought a little dirty to get the job done.

[Sir Chris]

not liking ace's attack on chris, makes me think ace is scum with DoS.

Oh come on, what kind of scum that has been apart of this board since 2007 wouldnt be like "ABANDON SHIP!" a long time ago? It is so a newbie being a newbie. I COULD be wrong, but that post just seemed to try so hard to be right in such an obvious manner. I don't think that's a scum post.

[Sir Chris]

Oh wow, I kinda skipped over that. That is a scummy line, but still.

[Sir Chris]

It's true, this is my personality. I said awhile ago you guys are probably going to wish I didn't talk as much as I did, I mean it. I am kinda bullyish, I am excitable and hopping all over the place. You have no way to varify this (actually I could link you to past town play if you really way but I think the archive is having virus trouble atm) but just trust me, I am 9/10 times, especially in themed games where the pace is really good, a major active sarcastic guy.

[Sir Chris]

The problem with post 156 is that it is a long game. Note the past tense in my first phrase, and the more present tense in the last phrase. See, it is called 'changing gears.' If I did nothing but give broad views I wouldn't have lead this lynch.

Also hey, sarcasm is good.

[Sir Chris]

Btw, my name has a space in it tyvm, please use it.

[Sir Chris]

Oh bad Maemuki, you NEVER tell a player to quit. EVER. Bad. Just bad, nothing will ever piss me off quicker than that. I don't care if you think I am the POPE of towniness and DoS is condemned to hell, he should fight. I might not think he is smart, but if he is town then he has an obligation to give us his opinion, what we do with it is our own right, granted. If he is scum, well, he can do what he wants there too. You should never tell a player, in all seriousness, to just 'quit.' That is NOT how mafia should ever be played, and you should be ashamed of that post.

[Sir Chris]

Furthermore, if he IS scum, his posts give town more ammo for later days to look at. Don't tell people to quit, damn.

[Sir Chris]

If it makes you guys feel any better the last, like, five people who said the one 'sheep' as I lynched them were scum.

If it makes anyone feel better.

[Sir Chris]

You told Ace to quit.

[Sir Chris]

Sorry, my post was confusing: I was speaking about Ace but using his belief that DoS is town in my example in that post.

[Sir Chris]

DoS, only thing i can tell you, if somehow you are town, if this: I always say sorry, and I always learn from my mistakes. But man, you've been a really scummy guy this game.

[Sir Chris]

I wish I knew what a chainsaw defense was. Boy, I feel like an anime character who is useless at books but kicks ass in battle!

Was it really that few? Huh. Felt like more.

[Sir Chris]

I know, I just do genuinely feel bad whenever I am wrong. I know more than anyone here ever could how much of a relentless player I can be. I haven't even reached near my capacity for epic douche levels in this game, I am quite a troublesome guy when I think I smell scum.

But, I mean everything looks great, from every angle. Your style is so lifeless to me, I just am feeling your lynch completely. I am really nervous right now, I must confess lynches really do excite me. Am I right, am I wrong, what do we learn from it, what happens during the night.

It is fun stuff.

[Sir Chris]

Man, if I was scum (famous words right there, "If I was scum") I would have so given on this lynch a long time ago. I don't think even my petty scum self has it within him to be this patient and daunting.

[Sir Chris]

I didn't figure you were defending DoS, not much to defend there.

I have to ask, Ace, what would you have liked me to discuss more?

[Sir Chris]

Also DoS, asking you as if you were town here (which you are saying you are!) what is it about the way I have tunneled, appealed to emotion, and bullied that leads you believe these are not the actions of a townie?

[Sir Chris]

I didn't actually assume anything, but that could be because I ignored much of those early posts.

[Sir Chris]

Actually, if it is any comfort to anyone else, I keep a running tab of notes on every player in the game, and I think I've pointed out random stuff that I have seen at a glance int he topic a lot. I am not exactly coming at you as if my life depended on it here. You shouldn't feel bad, because I only plan to re-read to build any new cases I might have if I survive to day 2.

[Sir Chris]

Well, just to give you an idea, I just randomly thought of these notes to post in quick box without opening my word file.

1. Gorrad - Slick, Goofball person stuck up for him.
2. Kise
3. wolframnhart
4. Shotty to the Body
5. Hayker - Seemed a bit too quick to get votes, kinda sucks though.
6. Kdub
7. DTMaster
8. Deathnote
9. Starbuck
10. RayFrost - Brash, an interesting attitude for a player.
11. MafiaSSK
12. raider8169 - aces if dos is scum, otherwise, meh.
13. Plum
14. Sajin
15. DragonsofSummer - die plz.
16. DrippingGoofball - a dominating personality that I think I am probably going to get into a huge fight with sometime.
17. Papa Zito - Brash with a heaping side of 'just as planned' behind every post, I don't like him.
18. Cobalt - seems kinda townish to me, makes interesting posts and seems sincerely.
20. saberwolf - Dislike.
21. Iecerint - Reading town, seems very thoughtful.
22. Maemuki - Too hyper, seems too quick sometimes with certain stuff, not a fan atm of this person's towniness.
23. Vaya - no tells so far, really.
24. xRECKONERx - all around a trouble player who seems to make weirdly phrased votes.
25. joe478 - very poor showing thus far, keep an eye out.
26. ace5993 - probably town
27. Sir Chris - lovable me.

[Sir Chris]

Why did the word lurker enter your mind.

[Sir Chris]

Why so?

[Sir Chris]

Um... Play how you like? You confuse me. My post was not to express disapproval or approval with how you play, I am simply leaning slightly scum on you.

[Sir Chris]

Posting thoughts you have on almost every player in the game in one big post? Seems dangerous on day 1 to me.

Those were hardly thoughts, more like nudges. Also I am a dangerous guy, what can I say? I do not live in fear of scum, for if scum fear me, I ultimately control them, do I not?

[Sir Chris]

"Not a fan of this person's towniness" can be roughly translated into "Not liking the odds that this person would flip town."

[Sir Chris]

k going to go for a bit now. Let's get this wrapped up so we can enjoy christmas damnit.

[Sir Chris]

[mrow]Scum[col]IGMEOY[col]Neutral[col]Town Kdub[col]wolframnhart[col]Kise[col]Gorrad ace[col]Hayker[col]Starbuck[col]Shotty Cobalt[col]DTM[col]RayFrost[col]Plum joe[col]Deathnote[col]Icerint[col]Zito Vaya[col]DoS[col]DrippingGoofball[col]Reckoner ---[col]SirChris[col]Icerint[col]--- ---[col]MafiaSSK[col]saberwolf[col]--- ---[col]raider[col]Sajin[col]---

So basically no read means you've got your eye on him?

Also why do you have your eye on me?

[Sir Chris]

I don't like the manner in which DGB is rather casually declaring people town left, right, and center. If town, it really weakens your position to pursue them at later times.

My problem with people unvoting DoS is he hasn't done anything to warrant it, not at all. Instead of finding new lynches to pursue realize something: There's more than one scum. I noted that Mae isn't doing any wonders for me with that defense of me, didn't like it at all. However, the fact it took DoS weeks to finally decide to show up and post regularly on the brink of his death isn't exactly something I think should be rewarded with a "kudos." Although I am glad we are having these smaller discussions are the day continues to go on, it helps us for future days. I just don't see there being any benefit to switching off now when DoS has done very little to change anyone's mind, and what he has done doesn't follow logical sense.

[Sir Chris]

edit: If you are town*

[Sir Chris]

Ok I have gotten home and read DoS in ISO, and have come to the conclusion that I believe him to be town. The reason being behind this is that through out the game he has been very constant on his case against Chris, which I just don't see scum standing out that much against someone.

Even after voting for Zwet, DoS was trying to point out why Chris is acting scummy.

Unvote

There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser

his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

I'm recently back from a break, my play style will be a little different than it was previously just based on time passed. Chris, I am not saying that you shouldn't look at me, I am just saying it appears you are looking at no one else (i.e. tunneling).

And I'm not saying they will ignore it forever, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people have other concerns with other players they feel to be a better option than I am right now, so they are working those options instead.

You really feel I am being rigid and formal?

Also if you want to do more background on me or any player if you click on their profile you can look at all posts made by them through that (and as such games they have been in).

It looks like DoS was going out of his way to try to tell me what was correct play without calling it scummy, as I said, he backed off my case really, really fast. So what in the hell are YOU reading, wolf?

[Sir Chris]

By the way doing a quick Iso (not much to read) Hayker doesn't appear very scummy to me, just pretty dim witted.

[Sir Chris]

Also notice how people accuse DoS of giving up and suddenly people are unvoting him and voting for someone else.

You can't call it giving up if it is working.

He refused to post actively for weeks, and then at his own pleasure he decides it is a good time to defend himself and attack the people who are attacking him because he ain't got anything else. He's got jack shit on me, yet here he is, saying I am all suspicious. Really? This is all it takes to make everyone feel at ease with this situation? Man, that is bad.

I would like to hear very detailed thoughts from DGB why DoS is town.

Very detailed.

Type it out in APA and include references, detailed.

[Sir Chris]

By the way, while I am here.

Of note, before I post this.

The only reason I ISO'd this person is because they disagreed with me on DoS, so it is fair to say that, but:

Wow, wake up, come back from work, find Zwet was day vigged. Big thank you to ice for that one, saves us from what would have now obviously been a mislynch, and we can now continue day 1 with a cleanish slate and much to work off of.

Question, what is with the hayker wagon forming? The heck am i missing here?

Thanking the vig for shooting a townie. Really? Instead of going 'Man, I was wrong, maybe I should try to fix that." You thank him because a townie is dead. Damn that's scummy. Damn that is scummy. Man, what is wrong with you? You rely ona power role to clean up your mess and you are thankful? What a joke.


I have never liked it when someone was lynching a town and something LIKE that happens and they go "thanks : )", I find scum there a lot.

Man this is all making such perfect sense for me right now, DoS is scum, buddies trying to save him but not too overtly, would explain why wolf can't seem to read DoS' post me vote posts properly.

Man, I wish I was a day vig, I would have shot DoS.

[Sir Chris]

Yeah, I am. I think he is obvious scum and I don't think there is anything town about him, so yeah, not in the best of moods. Also why is it that everyone I denote always likes to say they are rusty geesh.

Also you didn't explain how he backed himself up in terms of wanting to lynch me, by the way.

[Sir Chris]

Hrm, somewhat I suppose. The problem for me is it took him weeks to assemble those posts, and in between he posted a lot of nothing but defensive posts. I asked him several times to post more, he brushed me off UNTIL he got a lot of votes on him. As I said in a previous post of mine, he did not feel pressured by me so he just brushed me off. I find it UNACCEPTABLE if he is town that he just brushed off everything until I brought a lynch down upon his head, then suddenly he is willing to talk.

Also the lynches that require the least imagination are also the ones that are usually wrong. I am paranoid after the zwet lynch, I don't know how many people I trust that were on zwet, and hayker logic seems pretty damn familiar.

[Sir Chris]

Also the heavy resistance I keep meeting for DoS is making me feel better and better about his lynch, it feels very familiar to me in a good way, it has been the same for many scum lynches in my past.

[Sir Chris]

Like I said on the zwet lynch, and why I am so adamant about this lynch (because I feel bad about the zwet lynch, his death could have been avoided if I was more forceful about my belief) is because I don't want two dead townies dead day one. I just cannot believe in the whole scope of things, how I have seen them proceed day after day, that he is town. It just seems too good in a textbook kind of scum way. He tries to hide away from the new player, hoping I just go away. This actually worked until zwet got popped. Think about that for a minute. DoS's strategy of barely defending himself and letting me rant to myself worked like a charm, zwet was dead and the lynch. Then zwet died. Then Hayker was getting popular in a hurry until I personally put my foot down and threw a fit. So his strategy was working in terms of staying alive, and then he hopped onto the next lynch, and then only when I bring forth argument after argument, day after day, is he FINALLY roused from his slumber to grace us with suspicions.

This is not how he plays as town. I refuse to believe it. Absolutely refuse. So damn right I am pissed that people are getting off of him, and damn right I find it scummy.

[Sir Chris]

Oh and, before the past few pages calling anything that DoS has posted
"extensive" is a total joke.

[Sir Chris]

I've said stuff like that before as scum, I see no reason why that is town only.