Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Iecerint]

I agree with your case on Hayker, but I dispute that DoS kept up the pressure on SirChris. He dropped it after SirChris picked up his activity IIRC. He only brought it up again after people started to join SC's wagon.

[DrippingGoofball]

I can get behind this one.

vote: Hayker

[Iecerint]

I want to hear RF explain in a little more detail why he's pretty sure Hayker is town before I think in any serious way about abandoning DoS.

[Sir Chris]

Ok I have gotten home and read DoS in ISO, and have come to the conclusion that I believe him to be town. The reason being behind this is that through out the game he has been very constant on his case against Chris, which I just don't see scum standing out that much against someone.

Even after voting for Zwet, DoS was trying to point out why Chris is acting scummy.

Unvote

There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser

his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

I'm recently back from a break, my play style will be a little different than it was previously just based on time passed. Chris, I am not saying that you shouldn't look at me, I am just saying it appears you are looking at no one else (i.e. tunneling).

And I'm not saying they will ignore it forever, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people have other concerns with other players they feel to be a better option than I am right now, so they are working those options instead.

You really feel I am being rigid and formal?

Also if you want to do more background on me or any player if you click on their profile you can look at all posts made by them through that (and as such games they have been in).

It looks like DoS was going out of his way to try to tell me what was correct play without calling it scummy, as I said, he backed off my case really, really fast. So what in the hell are YOU reading, wolf?

[Sir Chris]

By the way doing a quick Iso (not much to read) Hayker doesn't appear very scummy to me, just pretty dim witted.

[Sir Chris]

Also notice how people accuse DoS of giving up and suddenly people are unvoting him and voting for someone else.

You can't call it giving up if it is working.

He refused to post actively for weeks, and then at his own pleasure he decides it is a good time to defend himself and attack the people who are attacking him because he ain't got anything else. He's got jack shit on me, yet here he is, saying I am all suspicious. Really? This is all it takes to make everyone feel at ease with this situation? Man, that is bad.

I would like to hear very detailed thoughts from DGB why DoS is town.

Very detailed.

Type it out in APA and include references, detailed.

[Sir Chris]

By the way, while I am here.

Of note, before I post this.

The only reason I ISO'd this person is because they disagreed with me on DoS, so it is fair to say that, but:

Wow, wake up, come back from work, find Zwet was day vigged. Big thank you to ice for that one, saves us from what would have now obviously been a mislynch, and we can now continue day 1 with a cleanish slate and much to work off of.

Question, what is with the hayker wagon forming? The heck am i missing here?

Thanking the vig for shooting a townie. Really? Instead of going 'Man, I was wrong, maybe I should try to fix that." You thank him because a townie is dead. Damn that's scummy. Damn that is scummy. Man, what is wrong with you? You rely ona power role to clean up your mess and you are thankful? What a joke.


I have never liked it when someone was lynching a town and something LIKE that happens and they go "thanks : )", I find scum there a lot.

Man this is all making such perfect sense for me right now, DoS is scum, buddies trying to save him but not too overtly, would explain why wolf can't seem to read DoS' post me vote posts properly.

Man, I wish I was a day vig, I would have shot DoS.

[wolframnhart]

yes, i did thank iecerint for using his day vig power, why wouldn't I? The way i see it Zwet was actign very scummy, so much he was about to be lynched. Iecerint day vigs him, which ends up saving us lynching who we find out it a townie and going into a night phase were who knows who might have died, maybe iecerint would have and we would have lost a day vig power. As it is zwet died, we still get to go through Day 1, and hopefully find a scum member before the deadline.

And there is nothing wrong with me, I am playing as I can, even if i am a bit rusty. Whats wrong with you? Are you upset that a few people have gotten off the DoS wagon and a couple are reading him as town now?

[Sir Chris]

Yeah, I am. I think he is obvious scum and I don't think there is anything town about him, so yeah, not in the best of moods. Also why is it that everyone I denote always likes to say they are rusty geesh.

Also you didn't explain how he backed himself up in terms of wanting to lynch me, by the way.

[wolframnhart]

I don't think the voice matters much right now, it can't really help/hurt is either way so early as we have no idea what to make of it. I would guess scum, though.



I haven't liked any of Gorrad's posts, they seem to really dance around any issue and aren't, how to say, impressive to me.

unvote vote Sir Chris

Why do you feel the voice is any less important than any other player in the game? Why do you think it is scum related?

Also his posts have had zero content and have thrown around suspicion on players with no real reasoning. The quoted post is good evidence of such.

This is DoS's first statement against you, and I agree with it for the most part. You hadn't up to that point said anything of importance, just a back and forth banter with RF, and then you say Gorrad's posts aren't impressive? As if yours were?

Next post:

I would like to point out that Sir Chris who has said as little (of relevance) as foilist showed up when I posted a case against him and then disappeared again. Way way way scummy.

That is all.

A true post, you did disappear, HOWEVER, so did DoS only to come back to point out you were gone, which does make that point moot. You replied and gave your reasoning, which was fine. You then attack DoS using the same argument he had against you, voting him, and then calling attention to it before DoS had even responded. When he did, he unvoted you:

Unvote There is a subtle difference in not posting, and posting nothing of content. For now you have started participating (as you state it is your day off) and so I am inclined to believe that which you say. (I also work retail I know how the hours can be).

The reason I was attacking you is because you had made no thoughts on anything or anyone in the game imo in your posts, not because of how few you had.

The omgus on me is noted, but I like the activity so no vote on you any more.

Cobalt makes a good point about Vaya wagon, but what do you think of RF's case against her as he is the only one on the wagon who has posted one?

vote Zwetschenwasser his activity is definitely less than the other games I have seen him in.

And continued on to Zwet, who was by far acting the scummiest at that time. When you called him out on backing off your case he responded:

Ah but Chris when my main point for attacking you was that you had posted very little with no content. I at least have let my thoughts be known, and its not hypocritical because of this. The reason I left your case is because you have changed the way you are playing now with the reasoning that you have some free time today. Which is supported by the fact that you have been interacting as opposed to saying nothing.

Sounds like a legit reason to me, but hey, what do i know right?

Then:

Chris you are tunnelling. Its a bad thing. In general on this site if people are ignoring it, it is because they don't believe it worth talking about at that point in time.

He calls it tunneling, you call it found scum and pushing for it, still sounds like two townies butting head to me at this time.

I'm recently back from a break, my play style will be a little different than it was previously just based on time passed. Chris, I am not saying that you shouldn't look at me, I am just saying it appears you are looking at no one else (i.e. tunneling).

And I'm not saying they will ignore it forever, you misunderstand me. What I am saying is people have other concerns with other players they feel to be a better option than I am right now, so they are working those options instead.

You really feel I am being rigid and formal?

Also if you want to do more background on me or any player if you click on their profile you can look at all posts made by them through that (and as such games they have been in).

DoS goes on to tell you he was not encouraging tunneling:

Wait when did I encourage tunnelling? I don't believe I ever said anything about it in a positive context?

On a related note, did anyone else notice, that in all of chris's posts on the last couple pages only 1 (thats all I can remember but it might have been 2) didn't include an urgent call for my lynch? Anybody else wanna say he isn't tunneling now?

Ooh Chris has convinced some people, and there is now a wagon on me. All I have to say is at this point I have posted way more than you are giving me credit for Chris, and given thoughts on multiple players.

Also I still <3 you dgb it would kill you not to be on a wagon on me I know.

My thoughts on all this. meh.

DoS was being nice here, "convincing" is what he said, being overly pushy was how i saw it, i was a lil surprised that DoS wasn't really taking the wagon seriously though.

He listed you as one of his top scum:

My top 5 scums:
Sir Chris
Raider
Cobalt
Hayker
Joe478

and stated he had given extensive thought about you and raider.

When asked to elaborate he did:

Also for those asking, that list isn't in any particular order, those are just my top five suspects, and as for chris. Lets see. His period of ranting at me, contains a blatant statement of tunneling, various AtE's and overall bullying of the rest of the town. What is there to like about him?

then stated:

Have fun following chris into sure oblivion. He has committed so many obvious scum tells that he admits too in the last 10 pages or so that it is asinine that you are all still following him.

He ends up voting for you, even posting quotes that he based his case off of:

Just cause townies do all 3 doesn't make them any less scummy.

Fine I've posted most of it in previous posts over the past few pages, but I'll clutter up the thread with a ton of the same info for you.

Tunneling:

I also, as you are starting to find out, believe tunneling is a in fact a good practice if it is towards the result you want.

THAT I SAID I WAS NOW TUNNELING ON HIM.

AtE/Bullying:

Seriously people, if you are just going to keep getting swept away in the idiocy of the moment and ignore my excellent case against DoS I am going to have to get uglier and uglier.

Cobalt, how about you vote DoS so he posts something worthwhile.

Ignore what the other people says, joe: I hate you for that vote.

I've got a scum read on DoS, I would like every one to place their vote on this scummy bag of bones so when can lynch him and find a probable scum behind this mask of defense and vanishing and

then we can all just be great friends and have cookies

.

Bolded part.

You guys just piss me off, I've got to say. Wrong on one lynch, gee, let's just hop on another

I can't help but have regret when DoS still draws breath, and if that is a scumtell then you got a messed up book of scum tells.

Those are just a few of the statements you made that appeal to emotion in some fashion.

Next two posts by DoS where basically him not caring much at that point if he got lynched, and it was because of his assurity that he would flip town, which bad reason or not, made me completely sure he was town. Why call for his own hammer? Had he been hammered as it looked like it was going to happen, his case against you Sir Chris would have been null, but he was still claiming it.

He still goes on:

I just find people who use AtE/bullying to get other players to do what they want come out scum more often than town. Tunneling is really a null tell its just a bad practice because you lose sight of everyone else. You stop looking for connections between players, you stop looking at players who could be doing even more blatantly scummy things than the person you are tunneling on, and thats just not good for anyone involved. Plus it will result in you needing to reread over 60 pages to have somewhere to look day 2 (I don't feel bad for you about this by the way. Its my vengeance in action).

Now to me, this is what made me post that DoS was trying to point out that to him you were acting scummy. I don't believe at this time either of you truly are scum, just two very different playing townies. Hope that answers it for you Sir Chris.

[Iecerint]

SirChris, I think your interpretation of that WFH post is off-base. I'll agree that the tone is a little weird ("Gee, thanks!"), but he posted it just after a large number of players had insinuated that I was anti-town for shooting zwet for whatever reason. I think scum would've gone along with that, even if it didn't make much sense. Even up-til-then credible players like Gorrad were getting in on it. WFH looked pretty lackluster before that post, but that was a good one.

I am sort of dumbfounded that you don't understand Hayker being scum. It does not require very much imagination.

[Sir Chris]

Hrm, somewhat I suppose. The problem for me is it took him weeks to assemble those posts, and in between he posted a lot of nothing but defensive posts. I asked him several times to post more, he brushed me off UNTIL he got a lot of votes on him. As I said in a previous post of mine, he did not feel pressured by me so he just brushed me off. I find it UNACCEPTABLE if he is town that he just brushed off everything until I brought a lynch down upon his head, then suddenly he is willing to talk.

Also the lynches that require the least imagination are also the ones that are usually wrong. I am paranoid after the zwet lynch, I don't know how many people I trust that were on zwet, and hayker logic seems pretty damn familiar.

[Sir Chris]

Also the heavy resistance I keep meeting for DoS is making me feel better and better about his lynch, it feels very familiar to me in a good way, it has been the same for many scum lynches in my past.

[Iecerint]

I agree with that last.

[Sir Chris]

Like I said on the zwet lynch, and why I am so adamant about this lynch (because I feel bad about the zwet lynch, his death could have been avoided if I was more forceful about my belief) is because I don't want two dead townies dead day one. I just cannot believe in the whole scope of things, how I have seen them proceed day after day, that he is town. It just seems too good in a textbook kind of scum way. He tries to hide away from the new player, hoping I just go away. This actually worked until zwet got popped. Think about that for a minute. DoS's strategy of barely defending himself and letting me rant to myself worked like a charm, zwet was dead and the lynch. Then zwet died. Then Hayker was getting popular in a hurry until I personally put my foot down and threw a fit. So his strategy was working in terms of staying alive, and then he hopped onto the next lynch, and then only when I bring forth argument after argument, day after day, is he FINALLY roused from his slumber to grace us with suspicions.

This is not how he plays as town. I refuse to believe it. Absolutely refuse. So damn right I am pissed that people are getting off of him, and damn right I find it scummy.

[Sir Chris]

Oh and, before the past few pages calling anything that DoS has posted
"extensive" is a total joke.

[DrippingGoofball]

This is my case, Sir Chris:

Ooh. Add plum to my scum list. Opportunity much?

^^^words spoken by a townie.

That is all.

[Sir Chris]

I've said stuff like that before as scum, I see no reason why that is town only.

[RayFrost]

I would be all over a Hayker wagon, except that RF swears on the Bible of Meta that he is town.

It would be nice if RF could explain his position a little more clearly.

I believe the game I'm referencing is still going currently, but hayker's play here is a virtual carbon copy of his play there.

[Kdub]

Reckoner, I asked you earlier why ace was on your scum list because I don't recall you making a case against him. Can you elaborate?

I'm a bit puzzled at the sudden lack of interest in Reckoner. If people disagree about the zwet scum-meta thing, that's fine, but his admission that he made up reasons to push a zwet lynch when there was no need to is just not something I can understand a town player doing.

If there is no interest in a Reckoner lynch, I am OK with a DoS lynch given his lack of defense against Sir Chris's case. I'm not sure about Hayker yet, I'll have to take a closer look at him.

[Sir Chris]

Well I am very interested in seeing Reckoner dead, for I don't like him one bit really. But, first things do come first as they say.

[Sir Chris]

This is the logic I am using to some degree, it isn't always right but...

Zwet lynch as an example.

Was zwet acting scummy? Yup.

Did everyone agree? Yup.

Was zwet scum? Nope.

There wasn't any resistance there because zwet didn't have anyone advocating for them. No one at all, really. It was quite the sad and lonely death.

Now almost as soon as zwet dies, Hayker is up to like five or 6 in a heartbeat. In a freaking heartbeat. For a bunch of guys who totally blew it on the last lynch, everyone is happy to move on to that next lynch.

So, then, after tons of arguments, people are like "DoS is scummy, yeah."

But again and again people seem to shift, turn, and try to divert this lynch. Again and again. The fact that DoS has decided to finally post ONLY when the votes back up his death should make everyone's radar go off. He was more than content to stay out of the way until his focus was required to stay alive.

As a townie, vanilla or not, your focus should be on scumhunting REGARDLESS of the pressure on you. I shouldn't need to rub a lamp, make ten votes magically appear on you, for you to start trying.

He does not make content for killing scum.

He makes content to stay alive.

This attitude is clearly not from a town perspective, and thus must die.

It is that simple.

It is why I accept no other lynches.

[Gorrad]

Yeah, if there's one thing I absolutely HATE, it's when someone claims Vanilla and then their wagon loses steam.

Seriously! Why don't we just run up EVERYONE to L-1 until we find a power role, and then lynch them because some scum says their flavor doesn't match their ability. Because nowadays, that seems to be the only way to finish a lynch.

DGB's case, in classic DGB style, has absolutely no explanation to it. No analyzation other than what's going on in her mind. Now, I do not find her scummy for doing this, but everyone else unvoting and going for the new trend? WTF. I'm frankly flabbergasted that people are so willing to give up a wagon good enough to drive a scum to claim vanilla.

Get y'all's acts together and let's bloody well end today on a solid, scumcatching note.

[RayFrost]

Dunno where my vote currently is, but...~

unvote, vote: DragonOfSummer

I've been thinking on this for a while, and I honestly want mae dead, but DoS has far more accumulated against him at this time.

Mae, you get to live for another day, isn't that great?

[Sir Chris]

You know, slow night for me so I decided to read over a game where DoS was third party and his posts are reminding me a lot of this game, I am speaking of Legecy of the Ancients mafia. I don't know how anti-town his role was in that game, haven't gotten more than a cursory glance, but man his posts really remind me of this game.