Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[crypto]

/cremate

[crypto]

Vote: ConfidAnon.

Bastard guised me.

[crypto]

Will probably be on V/LA this weekend.

[crypto]

Hotel wireless. Checking in briefly.

Caught up. Ten pages already, without my power posting? Impressive.

---

Unvote. Vote: Maemuki.

Kill: RayFrost.

Baffled by Hiphop's wagon on SpyreX.

Not liking CSL and ConfidAnon. IIRC, such play is standard from CSL. ConfidAnon's a bit of a Rubik's Cube to me, but his going with the flow remains icky. Iso. 4 rubs me way wrong: "You sound very jumpy and cautious, almost overly so." Yecch.

Still, I'll be fence-sitting on both of them for now.

SpyreX isn't being pro-town, but I don't find him scummy. I've been wrong before, though ...

One of {Maemuki, Sotty7} needs a non-purple avatar.

[crypto]

Missed Spyre's post. I like it.

[crypto]

I don't random-vote on page 10.

[crypto]

I don't random-vote on page 10.

It would be super-chocolate-covered-awesome if you explained your vote then~

More baffling is that you left the ConfidAnon wagon for this vote.

My ConfidAnon vote was random. I think Maemuki is more scummy.

[crypto]

On that meta front I am still absolutely baffled at the Ray-hate (I'm assuming that kill was a joke). The three amigos on the wagon are ALL much more hateable thus far.

No, it was real.

[crypto]

My ConfidAnon vote was random. I think Maemuki is more scummy.

Que? Sure you didn't get the names mixed up there?

I don't think so ...

Why?

A hunch?

[crypto]

Mae, Vi just made an avatar for you. Let's force Sotty to change instead.

[crypto]

Why?

A hunch?

What activated that hunch?

Why are you so eager to fend me off?

[crypto]

Mae, Vi just made an avatar for you. Let's force Sotty to change instead.

Vi made Sotty's too if I'm not mistaken.

/suicide

[crypto]

What if I refused to tell you what "activated" it?

[crypto]

@crypto: Do you want people to discuss your Maevoteki, or not?

Not sure yet.

Also, if your kill on RayFrost turns out to be fake I will be upset with you.

[crypto]

What if I refused to tell you what "activated" it?

You aren't going to lynch a person if you don't post reasons, mah boi.

Um, that's beside the point. Right now I'm not interested in lynching anyone. There hasn't been enough discussion yet. I'm talking about my vote, not my ostensible eagerness to lynch you.

[crypto]

Because I think you're scum. Thinking you're scum ≠ wanting to lynch you.

[crypto]

Then kindly stop staging a diversion from our fully warranted SpyreX/ConfidAnon hate

Your Spyrex hate is not warranted.

with your unwarranted Maemuki hate.

Why is it unwarranted, again?

[crypto]

If you think somebody's scum, why wouldn't you lynch them?

Because there hasn't been enough discussion yet ... Maybe it's better worded this way: I think you're scum, but I'm not willing to lynch anyone yet. Emphasis on "anyone" and "yet."

[crypto]

Because I think you're scum. Thinking you're scum ≠ wanting to lynch you.

Unless you're calling Maemuki scum as a personal insult, you just admitted you're not playing to the Town win condition.

That was easy.

See post 278.

Why is it unwarranted, again?

Good question! You answer.

Hi, I'm the one who's saying it

isn't

unwarranted; I'm disinclined to argue against my own conviction.

[crypto]

You'll always find me scummy =P
All jokes aside, I like the EM reference, if it was intentional.

Now I wish I hadn't wasted my day kill on RayFrost.

The crypto/maemuki issue is bizarre, but I understand where crypto is coming from.

REALLY? Elaborate.

Quite frankly I wouldn't be too surprised if there were NO scum on your wagon.

Budja.

---

And I'm out. I'll post my Maemuki case after ConfidAnon responds to my question. Should be on again later tonight to do so, but if Anon hasn't responded by then, my lips will remain sealed.

[crypto]

you're technically playing against your (assuming you're town) win condition, crypto.

No, I'm not. Not wanting to end the day prematurely is not playing against the town's win condition. Sorry. Nice try.

So. Why aren't you willing to lynch me? Not enough discussion? Hehe. Wagons cause discussion after all, don't they? So, why are you confusing me? Why?

You used the term "lynch," not "wagon." I have responded accordingly. I love how you're accusing me of confusing you, though. That's rich.

Why? Why are you voting me? Gut? What about all of what happened before? Apparently, that never happened did it?

I don't get it. Can you use proper English instead of spewing (rhetorical) questions?

[crypto]

Wow. I love the "Crypto doesn't instantly unveil his reasoning, so he must be scum" jackassery, especially

after

I explain that I will in fact do so shortly. Popsofctown, you must be literate in order to play this game. Why the flying fuck do you accuse me of refusing to explain my vote when I clearly state that I will in a few hours? Take a pill. Same goes for Elvis. I'm baffled. Did you two temporarily go blind when you scrolled over post 284, or are you going out of your way to misconstrue my words and arbitrarily paint my method here as scummy? Never mind, don't answer.

Crypto comes up with gems like this:

Elvis, would you suffer to favor me with your reason why this is a "gem," or are you going to sit on your ass all day and discredit my forthcoming argument via abuse of catchy punchlines like that? Really, I apologize for being so opaque in my approach as to slight your graciousness with failure to announce, while conversing with Maemuki, that I was in fact exploring her reactions to a gut-based vote. If you're one of those impatient degenerates who drool over the notion of concocting cases and urging bandwagons

immediately

after picking out a top suspect, then fine, but don't impose your proclivities on players who adopt other strategies.

I've basically disagreed with everything he's said

Disagreement does not make him scum.

Are you claiming scum or town right now?

As I remember it, I have not explicitly claimed either. I'll gladly claim town if that will do anything to improve your opinion of me ...

Why am I not dead then?

Because it was fake, bonehead!

[crypto]

Psh, if I wanted to seriously insult your intelligence I would have used something more offensive than "bonehead."

[crypto]

Be quiet. You're supposed to be dead.

[crypto]

Maemuki Iso.

3.

Response to Vi's SpyreX case. Asks if she needs to do a meta to confirm that SpyreX's scum, or if someone can spoon-feed it to her. This isn't necessarily scummy, but it sets up for piggybacking on the meta argument.

4.

Says she doesn't find SpyreX scummy. Says she'll reread him in iso.

5.

Says she's still rereading. Timestamp: 9:08 am.

6.

Overreacts to CSL.

Italics!

Looks like contrived outrage. Timestamp: 9:25 am. Safe to assume she's finished reading SpyreX's iso. But I'll temporarily hold off on that front, just in case.

7–10.

Rampages on CSL.

11.

Asks CSL if he would join the SpyreX wagon. Curious given she was just asked a similar question. Timestamp: 9:53 am. She should be done reading SpyreX's small iso. But she hasn't updated her answer to Vi's question of whether or not she thinks Spyre is scummy. Weird. Wasn't that the whole point of the reread in the first place? Mae's more interested in badgering CSL, I guess.

12.

Again trying to eke a SpyreX read out of CSL. Still doesn't give her own read.

13.

"How dare Sigma single someone out? This demands investigation!

More italics!

"

14

Finally pukes out her read: "I don't see SpyreX's actions as scummy." Unimpressed with a wagon that's grown out of nothing but gut and meta. Also unimpressed with the players who mindlessly wagoned.

16.

States that it

may

prove to be a good informational wagon, but remains unconvinced. Criticizes lack of scum hunting perpetuated by the wagon. Warns that the wagon may be a cover-up for scum. (I love when players do this: If Spyre flips scum, Mae can claim credit for having said the lynch might produce solid information, but if SpyreX flips town, she can claim credit for having said the lynch might be pro-scum. All bases covered.)

19.

Grills CSL for taking issue with Rofl and Vi's town read on her, but also questions the town read itself. "Look at me; I'm such a take-no-prisoners pro-town interrogator I even question pro-town reads on me!" Smells like acting. Smells like scum.

22.

"Switching sides so quickly"? No. LYLO is a long way off.

25.

Finally, she sees the light. But why is Maemuki only now grasping SpyreX's scumminess, instead of way back when she iso-read him (or before then, for that matter). Possible answers off the top of my head: (a) Mae didn't want Hoopla's offhand post 150 to come back and haunt her, or (b) she wasn't yet confident in the momentum of the wagon, or (c) she simply took a while to make up her mind whether or not to go with the flow. And Mae's case? That SpyreX OMGUSed Budja (which is blatant misrepresentation by oversimplification) and that something's off about his reaction to the bandwagon—apparently resisting your own lynch is a scum tell. (That's 50% OMGUS and 50% gut. She can use gut, but I can't, huh? Woe is me.) But wait! Mae doesn't actually vote for SpyreX. Trepidation, much? Worried that you'll look shitty if he flips town?

Mod Note: This is 515 words. Hardly worth mentioning, but I wanted you/everyone to be aware that I am keeping track.

[crypto]

Pops, I also think I'm being rude. But I don't care how long the read is. I've done longer. Thirteen pages aren't so much that you completely miss a post right before the end.

Hiphop, that post has 513 words. It started out with over 700. I spent half an hour trimming it. Unless the mod prohibits posts that go roughly a sentence over the limit, then I'm sorry but that's how it works after being V/LA for seven and a half pages.

[crypto]

Pops, it's more about the weirdness of how Mae's read on Spyre completely flip-flopped. Going off on CSL simply coincided with the gap between her Spyre reread and the post she made where her opinion on Spyre's alignment flip-flopped. The whole thing about CSL was a huge overreaction on her part, and I find it difficult to believe she's so worried about CSL-scum since she's already experienced CSL's style of play, which is scummy by default even when town.

She didn't forget to respond about Spyre, necessarily. After she allegedly reread, she said that she still didn't find him scummy.

[crypto]

RedCoyote, I didn't summarize because I was already over the word limit. Like I said, that post was over 700 words when I finished it (according to OOo), and I didn't even have a conclusion typed. I had to trim down the PBPA itself just to get near the word limit.

But the point is that I don't like the progression of Maemuki's read on SpyreX in light of her overall play. I don't like how she rereads him, wanders off against CSL, then says she still doesn't see what's so scummy about SpyreX, and

then

, hours later, makes a paper-thin case against him.

In my experience, people who resist accepting players as town... are scum themselves.

In my experience, that's, um ... not how it works.

Mini 842. SpyreX insists that Benmage is town even though a number of other players, myself included, find Benmage scummy. SpyreX turns out to be scum, Benmage turns out to be town, and all but one of the players who have a scum read on Benmage also turn out to be town. SpyreX had been trying to keep Benmage from getting lynched early on because he wanted him alive later in the game or in LYLO, for an easy mis-lynch.

Newbie 805. I call Excedrin scum and push for his lynch on day 1. Pretty much everyone denies my case, many of them (IIRC) believing firmly that Excedrin is town. Excedrin survives day 1. The mafia roleblocker gets lynched. Day 2 we cook up a foolproof follow-the-cop plan. Rather than delay his inevitable defeat, the last mafioso commits suicide night 2. Of course, this story would be rather pedestrian if that last mafioso was not Excedrin.

Mini 827. On day 2 I'm pushing for CoCo's lynch. Goatrevolt insists that CoCo is town. We lynch CoCo. CoCo flips town (but his role is basically a jacked-up miller and it turns out his role PM literally tells him to be a nuisance to the town, so you can't entirely blame me/us for lynching him). Goatrevolt flips cult, recruited night 1.

I was town in all of those games. I'm not saying any of them are what's going on here, but I am saying that—and this is one of the many examples of mafia's similarity to real-world democracy—going against majority (i.e., the town's) or expert (i.e., Vi and Rofl's) opinion doesn't inherently make you the bad guy.

That, and it's frustrating that you're going off on me based on my case coming after Vi and Rofl's pronounced town read, because it would have been impossible for me to develop my Mae case beforehand. Not only was I V/LA, but the progression of Mae's Spyre-scum read climaxed well after the announcement that she was town.

I do not at all buy the bad memory excuse. Maemuki, you are misconstruing my case as being that you forgot. Stop. That's clearly not what it is. After you read Spyre's iso., you SAID you still didn't see what was so scummy about him. Then, later, you spontaneously converted with REALLY BAD reasoning—that he OMGUSed Budja (which he didn't, and even if he did OMGUS is not a good tell, especially so early in the game), and that something felt wrong about his resistance to a lynch. Townies resist lynches all the time. Townies have the right to do so. That's a horrible, scummy excuse for a wagon.

[crypto]

Pops, going from having a town (or non-scum, to be PC) read on Spyre to demanding a defense from him is a flip-flop.

Maemuki, you seem quite riled by my and Infinis' attacks. That's very similar to the bandwagon tell you applied to SpyreX. Cute.

Regarding Mae's insistence that I answer Elvis in more detail, I thought it was clear that my gut feeling stemmed from something in particular. That's how intuition works, as I understand it. Something ticks you off; you can't put your finger on it; you break it down and the specifics become apparent. Using the fact that my attack on Mae came after Vi and Rofl's town read announcement is a load of bullshit, as I've already outlined.

CSL's continued wagoning is inexcusable. I don't care how scummy his meta is.

Getting very strong scum vibes off of Energetic Penguin.

ConfidAnon is scummy, but I'm more interested in other players (including but not limited to Mae).

[crypto]

Ah, seems Penguin-scum is a popular sentiment as of page 16. Good stuff.

[crypto]

No, we don't reward anything but pro-town play.

[crypto]

@hiphop: Oh hi. Post.

Don't you love it when they do that?

[crypto]

Wat.

[crypto]

Option B.

[crypto]

Vote Count, Day 1, Post ConfidAnon Daykilled

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 1 ) Hoopla
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 )
Energetic Penguin ( 2 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 0 )
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - crypto - Infinis
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 0 )
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 3 ) - RayFrost - Budja - hiphop
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 14 ) - Idiotking - Juls - imaginality - Psychologic - Maemuki - sigma - CSL - roflcopter - elvis_knits - Pads - Vi - Sotty7 - Energetic Penguin charter
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 still needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

Dunno, but moar voats on Maemuki.

[crypto]

Hiphop is active lurking. I can't decide if that's scummy enough to warrant a vote, though; it's possible that he's got a perfectly towny reason to lay low, though I don't know exactly what it could be.

This seems to me like scum fishing for a power role.

IdiotKing's rolefishing is noted.

So is his general play. Distinctly less pro-town than usual.

[crypto]

( though with you being cryto, I don't know what I was thinking.)

Now

you're talking. I am always right about everything. Everyone else needs to get with the program.

As for wall-o’-texting, I missed seven pages and was then urged to post a case. Normally I agree with you.I realize that I can get long winded and I do try to be as concise as possible. But considering the situation, it had to be done.

Also about post 400, don't start that again. Remember what happened last time

(Headdesk.) This entire time I've been calling for a wagon but NOT a lynch, and I've been very clear about it and people started getting worked up about it. Again, calling for a bandwagon is very different from calling for a lynch. Both games may be categorized as "large," but twenty-five players, many of which are quite active, make for a vastly different scenario than sixteen players, many of which lurk egregiously. Anyway, we shouldn't get any more specific about this; mod kills are no fun.

RedCoyote, my meta problem with Idiotking is more general. I've played a game with him and I did a meta of him during that time (can't honestly say I remember many specifics), and his play here seems drastically less decisive than usual. He isn't pursuing anyone, he isn't producing nuanced observations/arguments, etc. As for his posting style, it always strikes me as town or scum by turn, but his iso. 1 still isn't anything like what I'm used to. It absolutely looks like he's trying to cover all his easy bandwagon options.

Does post 450 by Pops strike anyone else as a tad contrived and melodramatic?

elvis is right re. calling people town, crypto looks scummy

I don't get it. I just provided experiential evidence that says otherwise. Maybe my experience pool is too small, but I really don't see how this is a bang-up job by Elvis. In fact, I think she's one of the

least pro-town

pro-town players here, if that makes sense.

Don't these targets look kind of... easy to you?

I've been thinking this about some of my own reads, to be honest, but it's a twenty-five-player game and it appears we have two scum teams. I don't necessarily agree with that list, but we should be more flexible.

However, Vi—you caused me to look back at Imaginality's post. And I'm now seriously questioning why Elvis's one post was enough to give him a "shifting from town to scum" slant on me ... because I was the one who brought up the case against Mae, and if you look, Imag has a scum read on Mae. If he thinks Mae is scum, why is he so quick to be leaning toward a scum read on me? I find it especially dubious because I'm baffled that he finds Elvis's case against me so strong, but even without that bias this is a huge red flag.

FOS: Imaginality.

Will do a reread for town hunting.

[crypto]

And for scum abusing ConfidAnon wagon.

[crypto]

@ crypto, you shouldn't lynch me because I'm trying to be useful.

That's an unfathomably poor excuse not to lynch someone scummy. Even then, your play has been remarkably useless since square one. You can

I answered my own question. Now, are you going to give me a real case or are you going to throw more hypocrisy? (You never answered to my questions either, you know?)

I don't know why I'm being hypocritical.

I gave you a real case. Before I did, though, I explored your reactions to unsupported claims. Those reactions were not good. Speaking of hypocrisy, using SpyreX's defensiveness as a scum tell of any magnitude and then spewing vitriol at my solo case against you is rather telling, isn't it?

I don't care for Elvis's case against me. I exposed her "Rejecting town reads is scummy" argument for the bullshit it was, and her argument that my initial gut feeling statement contradicts my logical argument against you—and that it makes me scummy—is also a load of crap. By refusing to give a reason, I wrung as much reaction juice out of you as possible, but that's beside the point, the point being her gut/logic argument hinges on a fundamental misunderstanding (or misrepresentation) of intuition, as well as of what may and may not constitute valid scum hunting.

I agree that Budja is scummy.

[crypto]

Elvis:

I did not find my reasons later. I think I had a gut scum read on Mae somewhere between Roflcopter's read and her attack on CSL. Mae's vacillation over SpyreX reinforced it with a concrete "logical" reason. I assure you I didn't just shit out that reason

after

I vote for Mae. As much as I'd like to hang my vote on intuition,

That still has nothing to do with the fact that you don't know what intuition is. Your case is shitty in and of itself and even shittier bearing in mind that it's built on a misconception that does not even have anything to do with the game of Mafia. Learn what intuition is before you use a transfer from gut to logic as a scum tell.

That aside: In MD, plenty of players talk about how they start out with a gut feeling and build a logical case around it. All. The. Time. I have a hard time believing you are so oblivious that you would make a case against me using the same

Lose the idiocy. Accusing me of rejecting a town read and using that to paint me as scummy is singularly the worst argument for someone's lynch I have seen in this game, as far as I can remember. For the thousandth time, you're abusing timeframes and using my V/LA against me. Smarten up or spew your stubbornly vacuous accusations at someone else.

But I don't think that's what's happening here, right? Or are you saying it is?

I'm saying there's abundant evidence that the town should not blindly follow a couple of players' town reads. The players could be right or wrong, town or scum; I don't care. It shouldn't happen. Using my contrary read on Maemuki as a scum tell against me is so absurd I'm having a hard time coming to terms with you, as a townie, being so dumb as to really believe as much.

[crypto]

No, I'm retarded; Elvis did.

[crypto]

And the fact that you voted mae before you knew what your reason was... supports my suspicion that you did not have a reason.

That is not a fact. That is your stance that you are misconstruing as a fact to throw together a more convincing argument against me, despite zero evidence in its favor.

And like I said, you don't know what intuition is.

[crypto]

You're right. It's much more plausible that I concocted that entire scheme by the seat of my pants after burying myself in the scumminess of a pronounced gut read.

Totally scummy play. How could I have been so blind?

[crypto]

Sigh.

You are so hysterically wrong.

One townie is not a threat to scum. But that's not even the point. Scum limit the list of suspects all the time.

Using the fact that I attacked someone two other players happen to have a town read on is a horribly flawed joke. I'm stunned if you really are dense enough to think this.

Unvote. Vote: elvis_knits.

[crypto]

I agree that Sotty looks town. Not Pops, though.

Not sure why Infinis is getting so much bad press.

Preview edit: Oh, no ...

[crypto]

I just don't see what earns him a scum read. He seemed to be thinking independently with his shots at Sigma, which strikes me as town.

Er, while I was skimming the iso. I saw his join date. He's been around since January. I've been reading him as new to the site. That changes things. I'll have to take a look at his meta.

Vi, the Pops/RayFrost comparison doesn't help me much. What are RF's virtues?

[crypto]

Vi, I don't think filler is much of a scum tell.

Roflcopter, too much summary and too little analysis is not a convincing case given our options. That said, I'm not terribly interested in debating this with you.

[crypto]

IioA is one of the best tells ever. For serious.

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have said that but I did anyway. I can't recall seeing it in any of my games.

[crypto]

if he later said he wanted reactions

I said that.

Argument fail.

[crypto]

taking it back two posts later saying he knew what he was saying wasn't true. Really not seeing any way that's town.

You are so pro ...

[crypto]

Re: 530. Bullshit. That was a huge point.

If you agree that I really had a reason for my Mae vote but was holding off on revealing it, then why the heck do you think I wasn't reaction-fishing? You think I was just screwing around, deliberately doing what a few players will always construe as scummy, instead of just getting my ass in gear and posting my case?

This is another phantom defense to a legitimate point. Kind of just digging your own grave here, but I'm not complaining.

Sorry, no, a nonchalant concession about Mafia theory is not a scum tell.

You know for damn sure, Charter, that I am a jerk in 90% of alignment-relevant debates. Do not play that card on me.

[crypto]

Budja-scum's defense of Charter makes this too easy. Two men down on scum team number one.

[crypto]

Never mind, I mixed up Charter's post with Hito's. My point that his case is crap still stands, though.

[crypto]

Meta me.

I didn't know it wasn't true. It was just a foolish thing to say. Making mistakes about theory is not scummy.

[crypto]

And here is the scum tell to end all scum tells, in which Crypto admits to having known he was wrong before submitting his post:

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have said that but I did anyway. I can't recall seeing it in any of my games.

Wait, what?

Where did I admit to having known I was wrong?

Oh, whatever. Hang me.

[crypto]

Because as far as I can remember I've never seen scum use it in any game I've ever been in.

I can use italics, too.

[crypto]

Whaaat?

[crypto]

Er, no, this is my main. Crypto.

[crypto]

Are you arguing that I'm lying on my wiki page?

[crypto]

No, I'm curious as to what that is all about. Hence the question "What's that all about?". With a :/ face to express my general puzzlement at the idea.

Fiddling with play style without the burden of a meta, however small. I tend to get hyper about meta, so I wanted to play it safe. Symbol wound up outing his main after getting called out for use of apparently devious play in a newbie game (guilt trip).

I'm done spamming the thread. Way off the track of alignment hunting.

Vi.

[crypto]

Pops, stop smearing your suspicions wherever the crowd goes.

Oh, no, I'm debating another town read from the almighty Rofl/Vi duo! Elvis, hold me.

(More evidence of being more pro at rich text than Vi.)

Pops, because two players castigated me for it, that's why. If I stuck with my argument, I'd have been called scummy. If I admitted defeat, I'd have been called scummy. FFS.

[crypto]

More dumpy arguments for my scumminess are the hell.

[crypto]

Why?

[crypto]

I don't think IIOA is a scum tell. Another player joins in and disagrees with me. I back down. I am called scummy for backing down.

I thought it was obvious that I was admitting to inexperience, not to knowing I was wrong in the first place. But whatever.

[crypto]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 0 ) charter
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 0 ) crypto
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 4 ) RayFrost - Hoopla - sigma - elvis_knits
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 1 ) roflcopter
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - Infinis - Pads
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL - Energetic Penguin
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

For the fucktillionth time, I have never noticed IIOA as a scum tell in any of my games. That is what suggests I actually believed it was not a scum tell. I am still unconvinced about it.

[crypto]

Cut.

Had you said 572 a while ago we wouldn't be here like this.

I can't recall seeing it in any of my games.

Because as far as I can remember I've never seen scum use it in any game I've ever been in.

I didn't know it wasn't true. It was just a foolish thing to say. Making mistakes about theory is not scummy.

Sigh.

---

Scum can feign scum hunting. Some players are good at tricking themselves, or just being flat-out devious, or whatever. In this game, there are two factions. In another game I was in, there was a cult. In another game I was in, there was a serial killer. If scum know from the start they have anti-town rivals, it should be straightforward. If not, they have to assume so (in order to trick themselves).

Every player has a post or two where his brain farts and he unwittingly posts info instead of an actual case. You can be town, scum, cult, SK, hippopotamus, survivor, jester, traitor, whatever.

[crypto]

The hell with it. His latest post didn't do much do help, but I still don't find Infinis that scummy. But Mae or IK or Budja isn't happening.

Unvote. Vote: Infinis.

A+ for busing, Roflcopter?

[crypto]

Unfortunately for your "Wow," I would have been scum if I defended him or avoided the issue. It's lose-lose for me, I think I'll live through a day 1 mis-lynch, and apparently I am looking at it the wrong way anyway. Adds up.

[crypto]

Why jump on a wagon on someone not that scummy (we still got SOME time before this has went on too long today).

Because so many players are willing to follow the infallible Roflcopter and Vi that it really isn't worth the effort to poke around doing my thing. Wagons are generally pro-town anyway, especially on day 1. Regardless of whether that wagon results in a lynch.

Why pre-call out the bussing?

Because this has been an abortion of a game for me, so by God I'm going to abuse every chance at ill temper I get.

[crypto]

Charter, I accused myself of busing. I also said "that scummy," not "scummy." The qualifier makes a huge difference. Infinis is far from my choice for a wagon, but he certainly isn't a

bad

choice.

[crypto]

So, no, not good point, Charter.

[crypto]

Usually when I write things down I try to use words that mean something. I don't know about you.

[crypto]

I think accusing Rofl of the bus would be a bit suicidal.

[crypto]

Crypto - go zen. Deep breaths. "I will not self destruct. I am not a VI. I will help lynch Bujda because he deserves it."

Unfortunately for everyone involved, it's jolly good fun being on the trollish end of the stick.

Anyway, ninja

unvote

. Really not interested in Infinis. Will come back tomorrow and find scum for all you admirers.

[crypto]

One last thing.

infinis =

active scum

-

may brainwash some of the town

,

possibly scum PR

FOS: RayFrost.

Italics are debatable at best. Boldface is just absurd. Underline is piggybacking.

[crypto]

I was going to bring up the ConfidAnon wagon, but RedCoyote beat me to the punch:

Sigma wagon, peaking at p. 5

Sotty7

- infinis -

Vi

- RedCoyote -

Hoopla

SpyreX wagon, peaking at p. 12

Pads -

Vi

-

RayFrost

- Budja - hiphop -

Hoopla

-

roflcopter

-

ConfidAnon

ConfidAnon wagon prior to kill

sigma - CSL -

roflcopter

-

elvis_knits

- Pads -

Vi

-

Sotty7

- Energetic Penguin - charter

Energetic Penguin wagon, p. 22 (out of date)

hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality -

Vi

Idiotking wagon, p. 22 (out of date)

RayFrost

-

Hoopla

- sigma -

elvis_knits

Too lazy to count off Infinis wagon.

Short on time (at school), so temporarily this will be a dreaded case of IIOA (O, the irony!), but I'll try to make some sense of it later.

---

Elvis continues to sit on her ass. I have no idea how she is so content with her pathetic case against me. Townies lie. Townies deceive. All those are valuable for scum hunting and are not scum tells, per se. That said, I've done none of them here. Elvis's best argument against me is that I lied by omission. That's an appallingly bad reason to vote for someone.

I still can't make head or tail of her. Her first content post (78) rubbed, but since then I've seen nothing dubious from her other than this persistent roflollery.

Mae is still scum, but I'm not interested in her at the moment. She's regressed into twiddling her thumbs, spotted with the occasional post devoted to defending herself or badgering me.

Imaginality is very scummy, for reasons outlined some time ago.

Vote: imaginality.

Will hopefully come up with something more entertaining later today.

RedCoyote's point and Pads' elaboration about CSL's wagon behavior are very, very good. I'll gladly jump on the CSL

choo-choo

if I don't see anything more intriguing when I do the reread / vote analysis.

Everyone's blind trust of Roflcopter is finally starting to piss me off. I don't care how good he is or how consistent (i.e., lacking in substance) his meta is. Very annoying.

Sorry if I missed anything.

[crypto]

Oh, and Charter goes with Elvis in the loony bin.

[crypto]

There are two scum teams, smart ass.

[crypto]

If there’s anything

Mafia 2

hates worse than

Mafia 1

, it’s a town that tries to fight back against its ruthless despotic rule. So, finding common cause,

Mafia 1 and 2 became one

once more…

or at least

until the town could be dealt with.

You can decide the meaning of that and the rest of the narrative for yourselves, if you insist. Me, I would go out on a limb and assume there technically are two families, not one, especially considering it's a twenty-five-player game. The narrative implies one team but becomes rather ambiguous and I have a very hard time believing the mod would write flavor involving two mafias if there really is only one.

But moving on, and returning to my point that there are so many stupid people in this game my brain is going to explode. I could just as well urge a bandwagon for you people for assuming there's only ONE mafia. Read the mafia names. There are—gasp!—numbers. Until we lynch a mafioso and get a flip that says "Mafia Goon" rather than "Mafia 1/2 Goon," I will assume there are two scum teams rather than one. ESPECIALLY when the third dead mafioso is aligned "Mafia ? Goon." Note the question mark. Rather telling, isn't it? Again, I wrestle with the idea that this is all flavor that has absolutely no bearing on the game, especially given the significance of the other aspects of the night 0 reveals (cult, bomb, jester). I truly, deeply apologize I turn out wrong, but until further notice, my money is on two mafia teams, not one.

George Thompkins, the

Mafia 1

Don, has been killed Night 0.
Tina Williams, the

Mafia 2

Don, has been killed Night 0.
The Unknown Goon, the

Mafia ?

Goon, has been killed Night 0.

Again, are you REALLY insisting on lynching me for assuming two mafia teams instead of assuming one, based on that? Are you literate at all? Or is it English that's the problem for you? One moment.

George Thompkins, Mafia 1 Don, on tapetud Öösel 0.
Tina Williams, Mafia 2 Don, on tapetud Öösel 0.
Teadmata Goon, maffia? Goon, on tapetud Öösel 0.

George Thompkins, 1 Don ya Mafia, imekuwa waliuawa usiku 0.
Tina Williams, 2 Don Mafia, imekuwa waliuawa usiku 0.
The Unknown Goon, ya Mafia? Goon, ameuawa Night 0.

조지 Thompkins, 마피아 1 돈, 나이트 0 살해되었습니다.
티나 윌리엄스, 마피아 2 돈, 나이트 0 살해되었습니다.
알 수없는 스콰, 마피아? 스콰, 나이트 0 살해되었습니다.

George Thompkins, the Mafia 1 Don hefur verið drepnir Night 0.
Tina Williams, the Mafia 2 Don hefur verið drepinn Night 0.
The Unknown Goon, the Mafia? Goon, hefur verið drepnir Night 0.

喬治 Thompkins，黑手黨一唐，已被殺害之夜0。
蒂娜威廉姆斯，黑手黨 2唐，已被殺害之夜0。
鮮為人知的古墓黑手黨？古墓群已被殺害之夜0。

George Thompkins, มาเฟีย 1 ดอน ถูก ฆ่า Night 0.
Tina Williams, มาเฟีย 2 ดอน ถูก ฆ่า Night 0.
ไม่ รู้จัก คน โง่, อั้งยี่ หรือ ไม่คน โง่ ถูก ฆ่า Night 0.

George Thompkins, a mafia 1 Don, foi asasinado onte á 0.
Tina Williams, a Mafia 2 Don, foi asasinado onte á 0.
The Goon descoñecido, a mafia? Goon, foi asasinado onte á 0.

George Thompkins, maffian 1 Don, har dödats Night 0.
Tina Williams, maffian 2 Don, har dödats Night 0.
Okänd Goon, maffian? Goon, har dödats Night 0.

Now, is this good enough for you? Or are you still going to assume ONE scum team and hypocritically wagon me for assuming TWO?

Fuck. Damn it. You people.

[crypto]

And once again Elvis does not understand basic concepts that don't even relate to the game of Mafia. Dictionally/syntactically, an assumption is written precisely the same way as a certain statement.

[crypto]

He was stating it as a fact, in an attempt to discredit charter's post. I think because he actually used it as a rebuttal, it seems more like a genuine scumslip.

Can you put that in syllogism for me? It makes zero sense.

[crypto]

And how do you know that the mod is not making stuff up?

And once again. Yet another instance of either illiterate, lazy, careless, or opportunistic players.

[crypto]

I think it's nitpicking to lynch over the omission of a single word.

Assumptions and statements are not distinguished with qualifiers. It's simply an irrelevant point.

[crypto]

And lastly.

Ok, crypto just confessed to being on scumteam B. I see this in the rules "a. This game will have at least one Mafia faction, and no more than two." I see nothing saying "there are two scumteams"

Did you just confess to being on scum team A? Oh, wait, no, I am starting to feel silly for taking the time to shoot down all these obscenely thoughtless arguments like puppies on an assembly line.

Then again, there's nothing saying, "There is one scum team." So I guess you really are scum. Hmm.

Or, you, Elvis, Hoopla, Maemuki, and Roflcopter (and others I can't remember) can let go of your stupid cases.

this is what happens when a scum gets wagoned for reasons he believes to be totally idiotic

This is when a comical tween posting style starts to shed its glitter for the useless drivel it becomes once the thread ticks past page 10.

Hmmm, I actually forgot about the N0 kills including two factions, but the N0 kills also include cult deaths when the rules say there is no cult.

Yes, and Zoraster also confirmed that those deaths are representative of the roles that will not be in the game. Use your brain. They have a purpose. Again, I would not be surprised if there is only one scum team, but as of now I'm confident there are two, and that the pact they form in the narrative is intended to be one that, through appropriate scum hunting, the two mafias must facilitate in the game itself, as opposed to having it spoon-fed to them in role PMs.

[crypto]

No.

Unvote. Vote: elvis_knits.

[crypto]

Charter, it's one thing not to read the thread, but could you please try to be a better actor about it?

His latest backtrack of "I would not be surprised if there is only one scumteam" is just trying to cover his tracks, but now he's flip flopped again.

That's silly. I have maintained my two-team theory all along. I admitted it's possible there's only one team. That's not a flip-flop. Learn English.

Idiotking, yes, actually, it is a popularity contest. It was obvious by page 7 or 8.

@ Everyone who is making excuses to cover crypto: why are you making excuses?

What an original accusation. Haven't heard that one before. What happened to you striking out on your own and

harassing village idiots

hunting scum before I called you out?

@ crypto, just because they're not yours doesn't mean they're stupid. Why do you think they are?

If you're referring to arguments, then, yes, the arguments made by Charter, Elvis, Hoopla, Roflcopter (non-argument, really), and yourself are all cataclysmically stupid. No, I am not going to reiterate my rebuttals yet again.

His different languages post made me lol though.

Credit goes to Netopalis for doing something similar in another game.

[crypto]

Once again. Surely you aren't this stupid/illiterate?

But moving on, and returning to my point that there are so many stupid people in this game my brain is going to explode. I could just as well urge a bandwagon for you people for assuming there's only ONE mafia. Read the mafia names. There are—gasp!—numbers.

Until we lynch a mafioso and get a flip that says "Mafia Goon" rather than "Mafia 1/2 Goon," I will assume there are two scum teams rather than one.

ESPECIALLY when the third dead mafioso is aligned "Mafia ? Goon." Note the question mark. Rather telling, isn't it? Again, I wrestle with the idea that this is all flavor that has absolutely no bearing on the game, especially given the significance of the other aspects of the night 0 reveals (cult, bomb, jester).

I truly, deeply apologize I turn out wrong, but until further notice, my money is on two mafia teams, not one.

I am saying there are two scum teams. I am not claiming to be absolutely 100% certain. That would be ridiculous. For fuck's sake.

[crypto]

You can keep calling me stupid, but it just makes you look scummier.

Do you really think I care about how scummy I look at face value this game? The sweetie pie play ended when I got called scummy for reaction fishing. Which was the dumbest attack evar.

crypto wins some sort of prize for being so devoted to the use of ad hom. does me being a tween or not have any bearing on my point? nope. but thats all you could muster in response to it.

My point was that

you don't make points

. You churn out one-liners that repeat the same FOS without bringing anything to the table. You may have good gut instinct but your posting style (this game, at least) is as detrimental as mine is, and that's saying something.

More scum points to Imaginality for softly accusing like fifty different people of scumminess.

[crypto]

Putting Charter on the town list is a horrifically misguided move. He has made next to no pro-town posts all game.

---

Yeah, Idiotking, like I said—

Is this a popularity contest?

elvis also

might

be scum, but i like her way too much to lynch her on day one.

[crypto]

Much as I love the idea of putting a shell through Elvis's forehead, I don't really trust our case on her. Scummy, but we have much better options. Like Maemuki or Imaginality. And we seem to be in agreement about the latter.

Unvote. Vote: imaginality.

[crypto]

D'oh, ctually, you're right. I'm not used to the inflated number of scum in a twenty-five-player game.

Vote sticks, though, for other, more important reasons.

Choo, choo.

[crypto]

Crypto is also now really flailing, pretty much going for anyone he can.

And ONCE AGAIN Charter proves his illiteracy.

FOS: Imaginality.

Imaginality is very scummy, for reasons outlined some time ago.

Vote: imaginality.

Will hopefully come up with something more entertaining later today.

Your Hoopla meta is a load of crap. Her play varies immensely.

Multiple scum groups means this point fails.

Not necessarily, I don't think. But

unvote

. The guy just made a sensible argument following my attack on him. Something Mae and Elvis have not done.

[crypto]

Charter

I truly, deeply apologize I turn out wrong, but until further notice, my money is on two mafia teams, not one.

Again, I would not be surprised if there is only one scum team

What about the similarity of these statements do you not understand?

Imag, that could be a mental error by a townie, 20/20 hindsight, etc. But I do think IK is profoundly scummy.

After thinking it over some more, I'm back to thinking Mae is the single

best

choice, but this works too. (

Unvote

in case that last one didn't register.)

Vote: elvis_knits

.

[crypto]

Excellent rebuttal.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: CSL.

1. I remember reading somewhere that CSL hates being scum.
2. Too many replacements.
3. I hate adjusting my read on a particular player slot for the incoming replacement. It's infinitely worse when the original slot occupant is both scummy and VI.

CSL is getting hanged today.

Announcing scum read on Idiotking, in case it wasn't clear before. Not very interesting, though.

That is all.

[crypto]

Oh, and EC is town.

[crypto]

Also, EC—page 10, eh? You've just passed through the portal of no return.

[crypto]

No, Spyre, we're expected to follow the chopper like dogs.

[crypto]

Pops, if someone does something scummy, you lynch them for it. It doesn't matter

what

it is. That's how it works.

This is a twenty-five-player game. We'll have more than enough chances for more orthodox lynches.

[crypto]

Note: Being Awesome at Mafia includes knowing when to break this rule.

Did you just claim scum or whatever?

[crypto]

Why you gotta mute me? I WILL NOT BE SILENCED. DOWN WITH THE PROLETARIAT.

That said I agree with 758.

Claim: mafia silencer. Night action target attained.

Oh, wait, this isn't EM.

[crypto]

How many mafiosi are there typically in a 25-player game?

EM is fun with the right players (obviously). The rare game without trolls/lurkers/flakers/morons is amazing.

[crypto]

Okay, thanks, Vi. I thought so. Watch this.

RedCoyote

crypto

SpyreX

hiphop

popsofctown

elvis_knits

Sotty7

sigma

Vi

hitogoroshi

Idiotking

RayFrost

Hoopla

Psychologic

Budja
Maemuki
CSL
Energetic Penguin
roflcopter
Infinis

Pads

imaginality

EtherealCookie

charter

---

Reads get hard as hell now.

charter

imaginality

Infinis

roflcopter
Energetic Penguin
CSL
Maemuki
Budja
Idiotking

sigma

elvis_knits

SpyreX

---

imaginality
roflcopter
Energetic Penguin
CSL
Maemuki
Budja
Idiotking
elvis_knits

That's the best I can do and the forced reads probably make it >70% inaccurate. In fact, it's at the point where I know at least half those last scum reads are wrong and I don't even care. The hell with it.

How do you know this crypto? Did you spectate one?

I've played on EM for a few weeks now.

[crypto]

By the way cryto, just because someone agrees with your case, does not mean they are not scum.

It should be rather obvious that I am aware of that. Just about no one agreed/agrees with my Maemuki case. Elvis and Charter are scummy because they're clinging to arguments that have repeatedly been proven idiotic. I simply can't fathom that there is no ulterior motive.

Not sold on the Idiotking-CSL connection, but he's plenty scummy anyway so whatever.

Whoever said Hoopla is obvious town is correct.

[crypto]

PREVIEW EDIT: Hats off for E_K to restating the obvious far after the point where we may've even considered that an original idea. Encore!

What else is new? +1.

Fixed quote tag

[crypto]

Oh, I was wondering why he would've felt the need to say that given he's in another game with me.

Bah quote fail.

[crypto]

I Got My Eye on SpyreX now that Budja has a strikingly pro-town replacement (or just someone really good at faking it, which I'm happy to fall prey temporarily).

[crypto]

Unbelievable.

[crypto]

Because your lack of commitment to a damn game of Mafia is unbelievable.

Defending yourself is part of the game. Improving your play is part of the game. Defending yourself is part of the game. Making the effort to submit decent posts is part of the game. If you deliberately use a scummy posting style, you will be suspected in every game until you prove yourself to be a consistently useful scum hunter.

You refuse to improve your play. You refuse to improve your posting style. So, yes, people suspect you—and they should. An always-scummy posting style does not mean you don't have to defend yourself. But you've actually done scummy things this game. And even in the games where you are not scum, you should be policy-lynched for this sort of thing, because you do not find and lynch scum frequently enough to validate your technique ... if you can even call it a technique.

Doing all that, getting duly wagoned, and then demanding a replacement and whining about it like a four-year-old with his eyeball dangling by a tendon out of the socket is unbelievable.

[crypto]

Why?

[crypto]

No, I'm genuinely interested. My attitude makes me the second most anti-town player on the site?

[crypto]

Well, my exchange with CSL started to give me a legit frustrated townie feel. But CSL's claim that he read so much of SpyreX's iso. in two minutes (less than two minutes, more likely) is just lollish. Tastes like scum slapping. So if CSL flips scum ...

[crypto]

If CSL flips scum, my vote will be on SpyreX tomorrow morning.

[crypto]

Actually, I thought the satire was fairly obvious from the first post she made using it.

[crypto]

That would be because you were the person that posted it... and I'm not your keeper.

I don't get it.

[crypto]

Maybe I don't understand what Vi is saying here, but Hoopla's satire of my argument was easily understood, and as far as I'm concerned, her explanation checks out.

[crypto]

1:50 am. WTF. Wanna see my poetry explication, guys?

[crypto]

actually no fuck that i'm going to bed

[crypto]

Ha
Haha
Hahaha
AhahahahahAHAHAHAAHAAAAAHUAHAUHAUHU AGHGHUYUGGH (chokes)

(Drops dead.)