Mafia 105 - Caught in the Crossfire (Game Over)

[charter]

Vote Count, Day 1

hiphop ( 0 )
Budja ( 1 ) SpyreX
charter ( 0 )
crypto ( 1 ) charter
CSL ( 1 ) - RedCoyote
elvis_knits ( 1 ) crypto
Energetic Penguin ( 5 ) hitogoroshi - popsofctown - hiphop - imaginality - Vi
hitogoroshi ( 0 )
Hoopla ( 0 )
Idiotking ( 4 ) RayFrost - Hoopla - sigma - elvis_knits
imaginality ( 0 )
Infinis ( 1 ) roflcopter
Juls ( 0 )
Maemuki ( 2 ) - Infinis - Pads
Pads ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
Psychologic ( 0 )
RayFrost ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
roflcopter ( 0 )
sigma ( 1 ) - sotty7
Sotty7 ( 0 )
SpyreX ( 1 ) - Budja
Vi ( 0 )
Unvote ( 6 ) - Idiotking - EtherealCookie - Psychologic - Maemuki - CSL - Energetic Penguin
Total Votes ( 24 )

With 24 alive, 13 needed to reach a majority.
Deadline is at December 1st, 11am EST

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me, then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

The next clause of that sentence is you parroting what I said. Explain why I'm scummy. At the very least, explain how I'm wrong.

In response to this, this is wrong. I'm saying that you claimed to be suspicious of Crypto/Confid, but you didn't do anything with that initially. Just added support to that verbally but didn't actually commit until it was pretty clear Confid was going down, and then you took your vote off immediately afterwards.

I wasn't parroting what you said, I was accusing you of claiming to be suspicious of Confid, but not voting them.

After a quick reflection, I think that the scummiest thing you've done is accusing me of faking my scumhunting after my first post, which I want you to describe how you arrived at a clearly wrong conclusion. I don't think a townie would have possibly thought that up. Next scummiest would be saying you're suspicious of Confid as he's going down, and then voting someone else who had no votes. Pretty clear you're scum.

Will go take a look at Elvis's crypto point and see if it doesn't add up.

[crypto]

And the fact that you voted mae before you knew what your reason was... supports my suspicion that you did not have a reason.

That is not a fact. That is your stance that you are misconstruing as a fact to throw together a more convincing argument against me, despite zero evidence in its favor.

And like I said, you don't know what intuition is.

[elvis_knits]

I think there's more evidence to suggest I am right than suggest you are right.

My evidence is you never saying anything bad about mae before people called her town, AND that you voted her before knowing what your reasons were.

Your evidence is just your assurances... which add up to nothing.

[crypto]

You're right. It's much more plausible that I concocted that entire scheme by the seat of my pants after burying myself in the scumminess of a pronounced gut read.

Totally scummy play. How could I have been so blind?

[elvis_knits]

It wasn't a scheme. It was scum's most basic nature, to want to keep the lynch pool full of potential mislynches. You didn't even have to think about it to do it.

[crypto]

Sigh.

You are so hysterically wrong.

One townie is not a threat to scum. But that's not even the point. Scum limit the list of suspects all the time.

Using the fact that I attacked someone two other players happen to have a town read on is a horribly flawed joke. I'm stunned if you really are dense enough to think this.

Unvote. Vote: elvis_knits.

[popsofctown]

pops, what do you think of spyrex's vote?

Answering this before i read the rest of the thread. Bad form, I know.


Asking me what I think of spyrex's vote, to me, seems to be asking about its sincerity and its accuracy.

For its

sincerity

, the spyrex-town I remember from my last game is more than ready to get indignant over something like meta-reasoning and put his vote on top of it. So it doesn't seem out of place, in spite of the fact it's automatically suspect for OMGUS and whatnot. Iirc, Spyrex believes in zero meta. He doesn't want to hear it.

I do want to hear it, I believe meta is part of everything (i'm metaing spyrex right now), and as a result I think Spyrex is

inaccurate

with his vote, and he's putting it on Budja because Budja has different game theory beliefs than he does, not because he can actually see a dark force behind his posts.

(not rejecting Budja-scum, rejecting that reasoning. Haven't heard any cases besides Spyrex's as i recall)

[roflcopter]

yeah pops is town. charter, you should help me lynch infinis.

[Vi]

@Maemuki 478: I called you "an easy wagon". Not "easy". With that said, less defending, more attacking.

@Sotty7 480: You are correct; normally I hate every bandwagon except the one I'm on. However, I expressed interest in all of the wagons I've been on long before I joined them.
imaginality and Hoopla are two more people that come to mind that I'm curious about. (To answer your next objection, I was the one who

started

the imaginality suspicion as well.)

I'm having a difficult time reading RedCoyote, and for reasons a couple of people here know about I'm very worried about that.

e_knits' case against crypto is lame IMO, largely because it consists of crypto doing something I wouldn't expect to do as scum, and crypto's responses saying exactly that.

Sotty7 is now comfortably Town, and I'm willing to agree with roflcopter that pops is too.
Infinis reads like newbscum and wouldn't be a terrible lynch, but I'd like to stay with my E-Pengy vote right now.

[zoraster]

EtherealCookie replaces Juls.

Thanks, Ethereal!

[crypto]

I agree that Sotty looks town. Not Pops, though.

Not sure why Infinis is getting so much bad press.

Preview edit: Oh, no ...

[roflcopter]

I agree that Sotty looks town. Not Pops, though.

Not sure why Infinis is getting so much bad press.

Preview edit: Oh, no ...

define "so much bad press," then please give a legitimate reason to defend infinis rather than making vague unhappy statement designed to dissuade anyone from voting for him without giving reasons he shouldn't be voted for

[Vi]

Not sure why Infinis is getting so much bad press.

Terrible formatting aside, over half of Infinis' posts is made of filler. Read it for yourself.

pops is partly meta. A good comparison would be RayFrost plus experience minus hyperposting.

I feel like there's some kind of pun I should be able to make on E-Cookie's name, but I can't think of one OTH.

[crypto]

I just don't see what earns him a scum read. He seemed to be thinking independently with his shots at Sigma, which strikes me as town.

Er, while I was skimming the iso. I saw his join date. He's been around since January. I've been reading him as new to the site. That changes things. I'll have to take a look at his meta.

Vi, the Pops/RayFrost comparison doesn't help me much. What are RF's virtues?

[roflcopter]

I just don't see what earns him a scum read. He seemed to be thinking independently with his shots at Sigma, which strikes me as town.

Er, while I was skimming the iso. I saw his join date. He's been around since January. I've been reading him as new to the site. That changes things. I'll have to take a look at his meta.

Vi, the Pops/RayFrost comparison doesn't help me much. What are RF's virtues?

not seeing what earns him a scum read is a terrible reason to try to influence someone else's read on him away from scum. unless you're scum with him, in which case carry on making yourself obvious.

[Vi]

Er, while I was skimming the iso. I saw his join date. He's been around since January. I've been reading him as new to the site. That changes things. I'll have to take a look at his meta.

newb

scum

Infinis has never been scum.

I just don't see what earns him a scum read.

over half of Infinis' posts is made of filler. Read it for yourself.

[popsofctown]

bolds mines

This was in response to my first post, and already Pops has accused me of faking scumhunting. Please explain how that works.

It works when you post content your first post of the game, and that post is scummy.

And yeah, the things I pointed out there are probably insubstantial in the long run, but at that point, that was all I had to go on, so I point it out instead of just an empty post.

Thin and silky reasons are fine page one. Absolute thin air isn't allowed at any point in the game.

Please explain how I "want someone else to follow up" on my accusations, and how you determined that off of my first post.

As the scumCharter story goes, and you skepticism is already noted, i think you did it so that if any of those five people gained popularity you could claim founding fatherdom. And because I have never seen such broad and light FoS flinging be used as pro-town scumhunting

Other than a bunch of weak votes from you, I find nearly all of your posts to be reactionary to what other players are saying or doing.

I find myself to be rather proactive. Shall we agree to disagree or can you give me more to work with?

298, Pops is a third scum. If I was a daycop this game... His post comes back to OMGUS on me,

then accuse me of "sprinkler scumhunting" on page five or whatever

. Also claims to be suspicious of the Crypto/Confid pairing but does nothing about it.

The next clause of that sentence is you parroting what I said. Explain why I'm scummy. At the very least, explain how I'm wrong.

In response to this, this is wrong. I'm saying that you claimed to be suspicious of Crypto/Confid, but you didn't do anything with that initially. Just added support to that verbally but didn't actually commit until it was pretty clear Confid was going down, and then you took your vote off immediately afterwards.

I said "the next cluase of that sentence." I meant part of the same sentence, in context the same sentence in which i OMGUS was mentioned, which means the part I've underlined. (so, underlining mine) So this is miscommunication. The underlined part is parroting, because unless "using that dang sprinkler argument" is in the public consciousness as being a scumtell, you've got more analysis to do to explain how I'm scummy.

After a quick reflection, I think that the scummiest thing you've done is accusing me of faking my scumhunting after my first post, which I want you to describe how you arrived at a clearly wrong conclusion.

Here is your opening post:

VOTE SPYREX!

Traitorous scum!

Now that that is out of the way, I think pops is scum. I actually have like five likely scum candidates, which is kind of awesome. Others to include: imaginality, Energetic Penguin, and hitogoroshi.

unvote, vote Pops

Pops for his K7 tangent and his 'why aren't you opposed to Hoopla's avatar' comments.

imaginality for posting to say he isn't going to post.

Energetic Penguin for his FOS of Sigma and then vote for Hoopla.

hitogoroshi because I don't like his last two posts.

I don't think sigma is scum.

I italicized mere information. I colored the analysis bright red with blue polka dots. I am sooo not a fan of thread narrators, and that's why I jumped on you out of the gate.

I don't think a townie would have possibly thought that up. Next scummiest would be saying you're suspicious of Confid as he's going down, and then voting someone else who had no votes. Pretty clear you're scum.

Zero votes on Energetic Penguin isn't the way I recall it, but maybe so. Even so, public opinion against EP was polarizing so EP was a viable alternative to ConfidAnon, and i decided if I could kill one on the spot it would be EP so that's who I voted for.



@all - Can we not cuss ITT? If you'll indulge me.

[crypto]

Vi, I don't think filler is much of a scum tell.

Roflcopter, too much summary and too little analysis is not a convincing case given our options. That said, I'm not terribly interested in debating this with you.

[popsofctown]

IioA is one of the best tells ever. For serious.

[crypto]

IioA is one of the best tells ever. For serious.

Yeah, I knew I shouldn't have said that but I did anyway. I can't recall seeing it in any of my games.

[popsofctown]

I can't recall a game without it.

[RayFrost]

IioA is one of the best tells ever. For serious.

QFT

when I saw the bold responses in the quote, I thought "OMG, Vi is right that pops and I are similar O.o"

Also QFT pops' post right above this one

[EtherealCookie]

Hello, Crypto, Charter, other people, like Ray, and what not.
Sweet damn, 21 pages to catch up on?
Give me some time. I'll try to read all of it on the weekday. Going to be long.

[RayFrost]

Read the rules too... carefully.

[charter]

Checking the facts about Crypto.

192, rofl says Mae is town (I think he's the first)
193, Vi agrees.
crypto votes Mae in post 248.

Then crypto spends his time being vague and fighting off others when they ask for his reasoning.

He finally gives a case? (not really a case, a useless commentary on most of her posts) in post 307. None of the posts he mentions in there are after his vote.

I think it's much worse how he was very argumentative after people asked why he voted. He did wait until people call Mae town before he votes her, but I don't think any of his reasons are good for thinking she's scum. The only thing leaving doubt in mind is crypto looked a lot like Confid's buddy.

Pops:
You don't explain how, from a single post of mine, you determine that I am faking scumhunting. You just say my post is scummy. Accusing me of a scummy post is way more vague and general than the very specific faking scumhunting, which I'm positive you can't determine from one post.

I italicized mere information. I colored the analysis bright red with blue polka dots. I am sooo not a fan of thread narrators, and that's why I jumped on you out of the gate.

You forgot to color the part of my post where I call them "likely scum candidates" since I'm pretty sure that their posts weren't tagged with a "hey guys, I'm scum" stamp. That is me analyzing their posts. I also gave my analysis on sigma saying I don't think he's scum, since he was the top voteholder at the time, but hey, I guess that's just me keeping all my options open like you're saying.

As the scumCharter story goes, and you skepticism is already noted, i think you did it so that if any of those five people gained popularity you could claim founding fatherdom. And because I have never seen such broad and light FoS flinging be used as pro-town scumhunting

You don't really know how I play, I don't wait for people to gain popularity, I pick who I think is scummy and I make them gain popularity.

If you guys are all going to let Pops pull the wool over your eyes, I'm voting crypto because of his argumentative attitude when people asked for his reasons for voting. It might be understandable (not actually, though) if he later said he wanted reactions. I think his 517 is scummy too. Trying to get his opinion out but not justify it, just trying to get rofl to accept what he's saying. Not to mention his point is wrong, and then he says he knew that two posts later, which is also scummy. Crypto's vote for Elvis looks a preemptive OMGUS vote

rofl, why should I be voting infinis?