Open 155 - Jungle Republic - Game Over before 816

[Noramp]

vote OrangePenguin

cool name

[Noramp]

I would hardly call that game completed Crazy:/

[Noramp]

I think the main reason is because its simply a 50/50 or a random vote. You would be forced to make a lot of assumptions in pursuing that line of questioning, leading to some extreme WIFOM which would be really useless at this stage in the game.

@Mole why did Heros statement garner a vote from you?

[Noramp]

ah ok just thought you were going somewhere with that, sorry:/

[Noramp]

@everyone: is it to our best interest to try and kill scum first? obviously we want them dead but if we were to take out the werewolves first wouldn't we be left with 3 really gimped scum. i guess what I'm getting at is if Mastin is actually correct and he nailed the three scum members within two pages of thread, is it to our advantage to lynch them or should we set our sights higher?

[Noramp]

I agree Chaos that we should lynch anti town people, but in this situation Mastin thinks that he has found all three scum. Would it really be to our advantage to lynch them quickly? That would place us at Day 4 with 6 people, 2 of which are werewolves. That gives us two to three days to piece together who the werewolves were. It seems that if we managed to kill werewolves first it would place us at Day 3 and the anti town faction would be unable to pick us off during the night, which means our cop would be free to investigate and even come out and say what hes found safely. I realize this is in an ideal world but I can't imagine why you wouldn't want the second set up as opposed to the first.

[Noramp]

oh thanks Crazy, I just assumed they were the same role:/ that is a good thing to clear up early on.

@Chaos you were on last night but only commented on what I said, what is your overall feeling at this point in the game? How do you feel about Mastin's case on his three suspects? Is there any validity to it?

[Noramp]

@Flava because I asked a question?

[Noramp]

if you looked at what I said, youd realize that isnt what I said. I think I may have been simply lingering on game theory though which Chaos said is active lurking so I dropped it because hes right.

I was trying to spark conversation regarding Mastin and his claim that he had already caught the three scum but failed because it ended up simply being a statement involving percentages and what ifs. I never meant to suggest that Mastin was correct but only to try and counter his claim that we should speed lynch Hero and I never meant to suggest that we should hold off on lynching scum but to hold off on lynching those three. But it seems that we have a much more diverse opinion than Mastin would like so I suppose thats good enough.

Do you think something like that is acceptable, in reference to joke claiming scum? A claim is a claim and if he doesnt want to take it seriously does that merit a vote? I dont think Mastin should be let free simply because he jokingly claims scum, perhaps theres something to it. By joking around itll make his slip ups(even though he suggests he is infallible) seem purposeful, making us second guess his scumminess.

[Noramp]

So you are more than willing to lynch Hero right now?

[Noramp]

@Zazier This game has dwindled to mainly lurking, so I was simply trying to start discussion. Chaos jumped on briefly and commented on what I said so I was wondering what his feeling were so far. My feelings tend to be that Mastin is wrong, I would be utterly amazed if he correct. However, I don't think it would be too far of a stretch to suggest that one of the three of them are in some way scum. Its good that he gets discussion going but he may have scared a lot of ppl off with his walls of text.

@Crazy do you think that Hero is scum then? I never meant to derail the wagon I just wanted people to think about it. It felt like Mastin was just trying to push and shove his way to getting Hero lynched.

@Zazier I did say that I thought it should be considered because it allows Mastin room to mess up later. If anyone else came out of the blocks by claiming scum, most people would be all over you. This is my first game with Mastin and I guess he does it all the time but I'm not sure if that makes it a good choice.

[Noramp]

well it is suspicious to vote alongside someone in rvs as the second vote but it seems like a scum member wouldn't do that. it would bring unnecessary speculation towards you which it did. Out of the three I would say Hero is the most likely to be scum but I'm going to read over Mastin's argument one more time and see what I think after a second read through and I really don't see the case Mastin has going against Ceph.

In terms of the discussion at the time. It was mainly just Mastin agruing with Hero and Flave. I didnt really see it as a group discussion because there were so many lurkers at that time, not to mention Mastin's posts sort of stop discussion to an extent because of their daunting size. My post wasn't great but it did get a comment out of Chaos and it sparked discussion from people even if it wasn't beneficial to my case.

[Noramp]

because in random voting you chose to make a vote that seemed like it wasn't random. you willingly chose to buddy up with someone and start a quasi wagon, no matter how weak the basis. And all this was before anyone else casted a vote. It seems strange that you would do that if you were town.
I'm LA for about two days, I should find time to post once a day.

[Noramp]

I didn't mean to imply I thought he was scum but simply that his participation seemed the most scummy. It just seemed strange he would vote in stride with the person before him in rvs. If it was simply to start discussion then it certainly did the trick but its unfortunate that to start discussion you need to put your neck on the line.

And to say we should grill falko for lurking is really unfair, he may not be participating to a certain extent but sadly he is on more than half of the people meant to be playing. We need to get everyone else involved so we can get rolling.

[Noramp]

ok guys I'm back and I've been trying to follow along while I was gone so I know I have some questions to answer, I'm gunna run through the questions and then answer them. So I should have that by tonight and ya Zazier I didn't mean to leave that up for this long

unvote

[Noramp]

Instead, you argued the point that Hero might be mafia? Do you think he is and you just want to lynch the werewolves first? Or do you think he's town and you were saving him from being lynched by suggesting he might be mafia? Or do you have no opinion and you were just defending him for no reason?

I think I’ve addressed some of these already but I’ll answer them all just in case. I would say that Hero is the most suspicious not for his vote on Falko but the way he acted while getting questioned by Mastin. I previously said that I thought it was strange that Hero would vote so haphazardly as to vote in stride with the person before him. I don’t really think that in itself is scummy because as Mastin said it would give them 10/10 for style. It just seems ridiculous to think the scum would do that. But Hero got really defensive and even went as far as to OMGUS Mastin. And if you look at what Mastin said, he also mentioned it would be a good idea to take the werewolves out first. I never meant to defend Hero from being lynched I thought my question would be a good discussion starter but without realizing it at the time it was purely theory based. If we find someone we think is scummy I don’t think we should hold off because there’s absolutely no way in knowing the difference between a werewolf slip and a mafia slip.

Uhm, why were you trying to start discussion when discussion had already started? And if you disagree with Mastin, why didn''t you say so with reasons? And why did you use his suspicions then to ask if we shouldn''t go after wolves first in Post 74?

It was all based around Hero, Mastin and Flava. I wanted to attempt to get other people involved in discussion. I simply used his reasons because it worked for the situation. I never meant to imply that Mastin was correct. My question was entirely WIFOM, so it wasn’t a very good question:/

What I meant was that you think it should be considered. But only after it gets mentioned by a different player, you put your attention on it. Why not sooner?

Honestly I just missed it the first time, I came back to the game and was overwhelmed by Mastin’s wall of text and so I didn’t give it the attention I probably should have.

So you think that his vote on Falko was scummy?

I don’t really think his vote on Falko was that scummy. It was an interesting decision but there’s so much WIFOM in regards to it that it’s difficult to formulate a real case on it. I don’t know if I initially agreed with Mastin’s case but I think he did manage to get more substantial things from his bad case. It allowed us to see Hero’s reaction and that can tell us a lot. In my opinion he came off really defensive and that seemed more suspicious to me than simply voting in stride during RVS.

[Noramp]

Because I like to use to my vote sparingly, Hero might be the most scummy right now but I still don't feel that hes worth my vote at this point.

He mentioned multiple times that he caught all three scum, I just saw that he voted in RVS and moved on I didnt really take into account whom it was for.

Ya when Chaos initially called me out on the question I responded why I thought wolves would be best first, obviously that's in a perfect world but it would be nice.

I read Mastin's argument for two or three of his posts and felt it was going nowhere. He was just accusing Hero of being scum and Hero was yelling back at him that his reasons were stupid. I didn't really stop and take a closer look until you brought it up and started asking me questions. That's when Hero's defense sort of hit me as being more than just frustrated town and more like frustrated scum trying to get Mastin to leave them alone.

[Noramp]

All Hero in Iso

-And I see a SERIOUS Hero-Flava-Cephir connection.

How can you see a serious connection over jokes(at least on my part)?

unvote

vote: Mastin

Post 9

I don't give a shit.

This is one of the main reasons you come off as possibly scum. The emotional outbursts don’t help town and just make you look bad.

Post 9

Why should your joke posts be taken nonseriously but others should? Meta-defense is horrible by the way. You can change your meta anytime you want.

I agree with Hero on this point, Mastin attempted to pin them as scum because of what could easily be conceived as a joke, yet Mastin supposedly always starts the game with a joke everytime, Mastin obviously is establishing a double standard that he is using to push for someone’s lynch.

Post 11

Ticking players off is anti town, not scummy

Again I agree with you Hero, but it seems that Mastin’s playstyle is to get under people’s skin and make them say stupid things. Unfortunately, the reasons for saying stupid things can be because of frustrated town or flustered scum. It seems to me pissing people off only creates WIFOM.

Mastin, what will you do when I flip town?

You have very valid points throughout your argument but they become overshadowed by statements like this. There’s no reason to say something like this. It isn’t beneficial and it only makes it seem like you’re trying to coerce Mastin into feeling bad for making a case against you. It makes me second guess your true alignment.

I hope when I flip town you rethink your entire playstyle

This is post right after the last one:/

I want to punch you in the face so much right now =P.

REALLY want to punch you in the face right now

I’m pretty sure these have already been addressed but the main thing is these only make you look bad, they don’t do anything to help your case on Mastin

Like I said I don’t think you’re scum Hero, there are definite moments that you don’t help yourself by your reactions but going over your posts, you do make some good points against Mastin and to suggest that the argument is one sided isn’t fair.

[Noramp]

I'm sorry Flava but what exactly have you done, if Mastin hadn't suspected you, you would have nothing, I've answered the questions asked of me and I've tried to ask questions back. Granted Zazie didn't much appreciate my questions because I hadn't yet given my take on the situation but since then I've tried my best to be active and involved. The only reason you're targeting me is because I stupidly asked that initial question. How come you are not more focused on people who are saying even less than I am?

Unvote, Vote Hero. I think more people will be willing to lynch him than Falko

why are you already attempting to cave on your opinions simply to achieve a lynch. We're a week into Day 1, why don't you actually attempt to sell your case on Falko and try to persuade people in the middle like me. Personally I'm not seeing a Falko case. Is it all based solely on him not wanting to answer the question asked of him?

[Noramp]

@Ceph, Falko, Flava, and Mole could you restate your stance on Hero for me please?

[Noramp]

EBWOP

why are you already attempting to cave on your opinions simply to achieve a lynch. We're a week into Day 1, why don't you actually attempt to sell your case on Falko and try to persuade people in the middle like me. Personally I'm not seeing a Falko case. Is it all based solely on him not wanting to answer the question asked of him?

Agreed with the first.
Noramp, why did you say this?
Also, the case is that he avoided the question, then said that his vote was random though mentioned later on that it was for serious reasons. Last, but not least, he now lies about why he didn't say that sooner.

I said it because I felt it was very strange that he would come out and say his main target is Falko but because people aren't agreeing with him a week into Day 1, he's going to switch to a popular vote. Just seemed like he was fishing for a quick lynch because that puts Hero at L-1? correct?

oh and thanks for clearing that up Zazie i guess I was stuck on the initial reason. I'm going to reread I didn't realize he said it was for a serious reason, I thought he was claiming it was a joke OMGUS.

In regards to you wanting me to elaborate, What was it that you wanted me to elaborate on? Him saying it multiple times or the fact that I overlooked his RVS vote? or everything?

I'm sorry my reading comprehension right now sucks I guess:/

[Noramp]

@Flava

In other words, the scum are:
-Noramp
-Crazy
-Falko
-Hero

And note the VC. There are players suspecting Noramp and who show it.

Sorry Zazie but what's VC?

[Noramp]

sorry should have realized that.

If all three Mafia voted Falko in the RVS, they get 10 (out of ten) points for style.

I nailed all three Mafia day one!

More votes on Hero, please. Cephir and Flava work

I’m not positive how you want me to elaborate but there are three quotes from Mastin. All his posts are riddled with things similar or the same as those three. It’s pretty hard to miss. I tend to not pay too much attention from RVS votes because I have trouble finding true tells from them so I skim through and if something glaring like the early bandwagon comes up I keep my eyes on them but the Mastin vote just didn’t ignite my radar the way it should have I suppose.

[Noramp]

I was trying to start discussion and I failed. I've stated that a couple times now, the stance wasn't necessarily what my opinion was I was simply trying to get other people to talk. I feel like I have already said this multiple times, maybe it wasn't clear.

Does most scummy=scum at this point?

[Noramp]

it was a scenario Zazie. It was a world in a vacuum. Sure I would love to lynch the werewolves first as I would assume you would too(sorry had to assume). So I suppose in that vacuum my stance is too kill werewolves first but in the real world like I said...[quote]I agree Chaos that we should lynch anti town people[/b], if it was possible to differentiate between werewolves and scum why would you not want to kill wolves first?

i obviously saw the vote but it didn't register that it was a self vote even though it said it pretty clearly. There isn't much defense I can give to that because Mastin made it so glaringly obvious. In the end it was my fault and that's really the only defense i can give.

And Crazy I meant what I said. Does most scummy= scum at this point? Like saying Hero and I are the scummiest, I'm assuming, does that automatically mean that we are scum or have we just had a rough Day 1. I can't assume right off the bat that someone is scum simply because of what has happened through a week of play. I'd be more willing to make that assumption as the deadline approaches. It seems that you disagree?

[Noramp]

I agree Chaos that we should lynch anti town people

my bad:/

[Noramp]

I'm really sorry I've been busy the past couple days, much more busy than I wish I was but its unfortunately unavoidable. I'm aiming to post my first case tomorrow and answer the questions that have been piling up:/

[Noramp]

All posts are Flava Flave in iso and any bold is by me
Post 3
Decides to keep his RVS vote due to extreme WIFOM

Post 5
Basically just a huge argument based solely on WIFOM to attempt to persuade people that Falko has to be scum because Flava says so.

Post 7
Introduces his idea that Hero and Falko are scum buddies doesn’t seem to occur to him until Mastin pushes him on it.

I'd prefer to lynch Falko over Hero, but Hero is my second choice so far.

Post 8

why are you looking more at Hero questioning my vote than you are at the vote itself

Why did you try and curve Mastin away from looking at you answering questions? It seems as if you said something incriminating and want Mastin to not look into it. Also seem kind of defensive.

Post 10

Because the idea of it being both was more of an after-thought that I didn't take too seriously

This reeks of major backtracking.

We need to differentiate when we have at least one confirmed and are trying to draw connections. Right now, we just need to lynch scummy players

It felt like you were attempting to connect Hero and Falko for a large part of your game but now all of a sudden you don’t like trying to connect scum, we should save it for later?

You are also still defending your claim that Falko is scum because he voted for one person and not the other. It is still WIFOM and you’re pushing a case that really is there. Granted Mastin is the one bringing it up but he’s questioning you on the fact that your reason is horrible.

Addresses Falko answering his question with ‘because of his avatar’ and again treats this like it’s so important. It’s obviously not true yet you push him on why he didn’t say that earlier. Why is it that you refuse to accept his original answer, which I felt was much more satisfying, but you accept ‘because of his avatar’. This whole thing seems like someone attempting to appear active while pushing to get a lynch off a miserable case.

Depends on the situation. I wouldn't normally rush a hammer.

Then why are you trying to force the hammer now?

Now cautiousness to the point of setting yourself up to switch to any wagon, yes, that's scummy. I don't see where I've done that though.

It seems like that’s all you’re doing these days. One wagon isn’t moving fast enough, you can hop on to the Hero wagon, that doesn’t work, why not try the Noramp wagon. That’s fair though, you’ve named all the suspects as potential scum…

Um, if Falko answered the question, I wouldn't have suspected him.

He did answer and you didn’t like the answer, so that statement isn’t very accurate.

I won't vote Chaos

What changed?

Post 11

No. I'm not as certain on his scumminess as Mastin seems to be. And I want to hear from other players. And I am more suspicious of Falko than I am of Hero and almost equally suspicious of you.

What changed? Why now that no one believes your Falko claim is Hero worth being lynched?

^This. EXACTLY this.(

this is in reference to Zazier making a case against Falko

If you were the main one pushing for Falko’s lynch how did him backtracking and saying he had a serious reason for voting Hero not become a point of concern for you?

Post 17

Hmm. Interesting how you would rather I vote Falko than Hero. But I think they are scum together, so this is weird..

You obviously didn’t understand the point I was attempting to make. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I don’t care who you vote for but if your reasons are I want to lynch someone a week into Day 1 after saying earlier in the game you don’t normally like to rush hammers, that sets my gut off. What makes this game different? Are you in a rush to get to night?

My stance is that he is scum. That's why I'm voting him

Ok noted that you are just going with the flow and have no reason for attempting to lynch someone a week into Day 1. This is extremely scummy.

Something wrong with lynching on Page 9 (allowing a claim first, obviously)

Pages aren’t a good reference point. If discussion is going good and people are talking and discussing why would you want to stop that to lynch someone when you don’t even have a case against them. And perhaps I’m wrong here but isn’t attempting to drag a claim out of someone a bad idea?

I'd already named him as my second suspect.

It seems this is what you described to be fencesitting earlier on in the game.

I also know myself to be town

I guess I’m wasting my time then.

[Noramp]

overall

Flava you seem to have focused primarily on Falko this whole game on what seems to me to be a really bad case based solely on WIFOM. You claim to have also made a case against hero that was born through what appeared to be you trying to get on Mastin's good side. Mainly appear to be simply answering questions something you accused me of doing which you classified as just simply trying to appear active. You give opinions but they all seem forced because you appear to be trying to stay in good favor with the rest of town.

In the end it seems your whole game has been an attempt to stay under the radar and stay on people's good sides as to not look into the fact that you are doing little to really get your case across or going back on earlier statements. For these reasons

vote Flava Flave

[Noramp]

All posts are Flava Flave in iso and any bold is by me
Post 3
Decides to keep his RVS vote due to extreme WIFOM

Post 5
Basically just a huge argument based solely on WIFOM to attempt to persuade people that Falko has to be scum because Flava says so.

You are putting words in my mouth. I said he was scum based on his actions. Not just because "I said so".

Flava perhaps saying “simply because you said so” is a tad matter of fact but your case was nonexistent in my opinion and you just kept pushing the same minute detail. So you were trying your best to push a bad case which is a sense basing your attack on because I said so. You can continue to argue that you were basing your attack on details but what you were using was very weak.

Post 7
Introduces his idea that Hero and Falko are scum buddies doesn’t seem to occur to him until Mastin pushes him on it.

I had the idea already. It was reinforced by Mastin's findings.

You had the idea but failed to mention it until you were lumped together with him by Mastin. That seems very convenient.

You are also still defending your claim that Falko is scum because he voted for one person and not the other. It is still WIFOM and you’re pushing a case that really is there. Granted Mastin is the one bringing it up but he’s questioning you on the fact that your reason is horrible.

It is WIFOM. I know this. What of it?

How can you try to lynch someone so vehemently when you willing admit that your argument could be way off base? That’s what’s wrong with your WIFOM argument. If you know that you’re just making it up why are you trying so hard? Why not use concrete evidence?

Addresses Falko answering his question with ‘because of his avatar’ and again treats this like it’s so important. It’s obviously not true yet you push him on why he didn’t say that earlier. Why is it that you refuse to accept his original answer, which I felt was much more satisfying, but you accept ‘because of his avatar’. This whole thing seems like someone attempting to appear active while pushing to get a lynch off a miserable case.

If it's not true, why are you defending him? And yeah, if he was telling the truth, he'd have said it sooner, so I was proving the point that he made up a BS reason. And his original reason was pure sarcasm to avoid answering. How do you see this as a good thing?

I’m not defending Falko, I’m calling you out on trying to force a terrible case. I see the whole argument as a null tell. I honestly don’t believe his answer was that sarcastic. His answer meant in my mind that he simply chose one randomly. That’s a valid answer. Perhaps you think differently but its impossible to differentiate at this juncture so all you do is get the town distracted.

Depends on the situation. I wouldn't normally rush a hammer.

Then why are you trying to force the hammer now?

I'm trying to force a hammer? Really? Prove it.

Ok perhaps force a hammer is a little extreme but you are trying to speed the process. We disagree on the right time for dropping the hammer that has been expressed multiple times now so I don’t think we need to go any further down that road.

Now cautiousness to the point of setting yourself up to switch to any wagon, yes, that's scummy. I don't see where I've done that though.

It seems like that’s all you’re doing these days. One wagon isn’t moving fast enough, you can hop on to the Hero wagon, that doesn’t work, why not try the Noramp wagon. That’s fair though, you’ve named all the suspects as potential scum…

Don't you think I'd be smarter than that and allow myself to hop on players I've called town like Mastin and Ceph if that was the case?

Who believes Mastin to be scum? Who believes Ceph to be scum outside of Mastin? To me it would be stupid to suggest that Mastin and Ceph are scum as well because all you would do is draw attention to yourself. You’ve seen who the likely lynches are going to be and you’re sticking close to them.

I won't vote Chaos

What changed?

Nothing. I still don't plan on voting him any time soon.

But what changed from you saying you will not vote Chaos to I think he could be scum? If you think someone is scum, maybe you wont vote him today but hes moving in that direction in your mind.

Post 11

^This. EXACTLY this.(

this is in reference to Zazier making a case against Falko

If you were the main one pushing for Falko’s lynch how did him backtracking and saying he had a serious reason for voting Hero not become a point of concern for you?

What was the serious reason? The avatar thing? I believe I mentioned that. What does this have to do with what you quoted?

I was arguing in my head whether I should have quoted the whole thing, I guess I chose the wrong psyche. Falko had a post saying that after his avatar reason that he had a real reason for voting the way he did and you ignored it. Zazie made reference to it within the paragraph where he agreed with you. It made Falko look very bad because he oscillated from a different point every time he was questioned with two semi joke reasons and then finally ending on “I had a real reason”. That would have been a great thing to question Falko on but you let it go. That seems strange to me.

Post 17

Hmm. Interesting how you would rather I vote Falko than Hero. But I think they are scum together, so this is weird..

You obviously didn’t understand the point I was attempting to make. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I don’t care who you vote for but if your reasons are I want to lynch someone a week into Day 1 after saying earlier in the game you don’t normally like to rush hammers, that sets my gut off. What makes this game different? Are you in a rush to get to night?

I'll say it again. Nothing is different. I don't want to rush. But I feel we have discussed plenty. I'm not ready to lynch

now

, but I

am

ready to run someone up to a claim, and if I'm not satisfied with the claim, I'm willing to lynch after that. I don't care if it's been a week. It's been 10 pages, and that's plenty for one day.

Again a matter of opinions it would seem. But you appear to be saying I’m switching my vote to Hero…someone hammer.

My stance is that he is scum. That's why I'm voting him

Ok noted that you are just going with the flow and have no reason for attempting to lynch someone a week into Day 1. This is extremely scummy.

Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I have no reason to vote Hero. In fact, I gave my reasons for it.

You may have a reason for voting Hero but asked what those reasons were you said because he was scummy. No how can you say that that in itself isn’t reason enough to vote someone. You show in my mind that you either don’t care about questions asked of you or you don’t trust your case on hero so you kept it to “I think he’s scummy” or you simply don’t have a case and are trying to slide under the radar while Hero gets lynched.

I'd already named him as my second suspect.

It seems this is what you described to be fencesitting earlier on in the game.

How?

You said something like fencesitting was giving a laundry list of people you thought were scum so in the end you could vote for whoever the most likely lynchee would be. In my opinion this is exactly what you are doing.

[Noramp]

Ceph could you explain why you think my reasoning for voting Flava is "attrocious"? Do you not agree on my points or just think that its terrible logic?

[Noramp]

Following along throughout the Day, Flava just seemed to me to be the scummiest and that was simply my way of compiling my case. I know it seems like I wasn't doing anything before my case on Flava but that's just because I'm not very vocal on my cases. I like to feel around and observe before I come out and proclaim anything. I'm starting to realize that some people don't like that tho:/

I still haven't gotten a reason why 238 was so terrible. I felt it was a fairly solid day 1 lead.
@Zazie if you don't like my case on Flava but you still feel he is scum, is it based solely on gut? so nothing can be truly proven?
If you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be?

[Noramp]

Why does that mean I didn't suspect you? Who else did I call scummy? Hero, then I did an iso read on him and decided my initial read was off base. So it isn't really fair to say oh well you never brought it up before because I didn't bring anyone up before but then I looked at you and found there were a lot of things that seemed really off. So I've really only been suspicious of you and Hero but it seems like thats practically everyone whos actually playing:/ I don't really think Zazie is scum because shes been really invasive with her questions and doesn't appear to be leaving any rocks uncovered but I sort of feel like someone of Zazie's experience would be capable of easily portraying herself as town in any role. Crazy, I don't know what to think of him right now. He just sort of pops in once and awhile defends himself and then runs away. That seems sort of scummy and it certainly wasn't what I remember him doing in the newbie game I played with him when he was a doctor. Those seem like all the people who are at least trying to contribute. flava, Zazie, Crazy, and myself, I suppose Ceph is now going to be here more often but its hard to get a read off of one post.

[Noramp]

in my head it meant Zazie was neutral-town read and Crazy was neutral-scummy.

[Noramp]

that was my first game Crazy and I was horribly wrong about Keyblade so to say I've altered my playstyle is an understatement.

Wait Zazie outside of the Falko part of my argument you agreed with me to an extent? yet you didnt like it?

I didn't have a very good read on Hero or Flava by that point because Mastin's posts give me headaches. I formed an opinion of both throughout the day. Flava's mainly scummy to me by comparing what he had to say early in the game to what he said later in the game.

Again maybe I didnt understand your points but it seemed outside of the first point you agreed at least partially to what I had to say.

[Noramp]

Yabbaguy I read your case on everyone and I was curious about your Hero one, you say that he is the scummiest and I think quite a few people would agree with you but is it only because of his emotional outbursts and unproductive behavior? Perhaps I'm used to newb games when things like this have to be taken with a grain of salt.

You have Falko second on your list but not for the same reasons as Zazie or Flava have stated. Is your case based around the fact that he isn't providing anything useful? Did the whole answering Flava's question saga strike you as strange?

@Zazie How do you feel about Yabba's cases? Do you disagree with any of them?

[Noramp]

Why are you FoSing Flava Flave while saying my case was based off of completely twisting his words. The things you brought up, I brought up as well. Why is it valid when you say it?

[Noramp]

I would like to clear something up, I never meant to suggest that I was defending Falko, Hero. I was arguing that Flava was trying to push a bad case, since then Falko has played really poorly and has become a lot more suspicious in my eyes. The main issue with Falko in my eyes isnt the lurking, however, that is a big deal but its his backtracking over Flavas question. I personally felt his first answer was sufficient, obviously not everyone felt the same but then he went and changed his mind two more times and then disappeared. This is very scummy.

[Noramp]

Flava from what I saw your case was based on him not answering your question. In my opinion he did answer your question and that was all you called him out on. That alone is suspicious because he did several other things yet you didn't bring them up, Zazie did. These were the things I found suspicious. When he changed his mind and told us that his vote on Hero was actually serious after playing it off the whole game he went up a lot in my scum book. And to top it off he disappeared. These actions are scummy in my opinion. Him validating his reasons as saying he did it for X to avoid Y, didnt seem scummy to me but it seems thats what you were pushing as your case.

Well Hero thats honestly how I perceived his motives, perhaps it was a bad case of tunnelvision but i certainly didnt take every post of his out of context. I tried to take posts that seemed to go against what he had said earlier on in the game and compare them to what he was saying now and question his motives for altering his mind a day into the game.

[Noramp]

ya Zazie I feel thats consistent. He was talking somewhat before and now hes not posting at all. I said before the case was bad, now its better but Flava seemed to drop the case entirely when falko actually started messing up. Where do you see an inconsistency? I would prefer it in your words and not just posting what I said.

[Noramp]

post 330, isnt this what I said and then was instantly pegged as scum? sorry yabba I feel like youre pro town but im just really confused.

[Noramp]

posts 4 and 5 in noramp iso.

[Noramp]

Crazy, you must have not understood or something. Flava initially questioned Falko which started this whole thing and then Falko changed his mind and said it was because of his avatar and then changed his mind again and said it was for a serious reason. This is extremely scummy to me. Do you not feel that this major backtracking along with lurking is not scummy? Did you understand what I said at all before you made up your mind to try and get me lynched?

[Noramp]

Crazy, Do you understand what Falko meant in his iso post 3? Is he just saying that voting for Hero is a better vote than a vote for Ceph would have been. That seems really scummy because he's saying that all along he had a reason but chose not to say it which sort of seems like he wanted us to stay in RVS by not bringing up a real case. This might be a bad point because I'm not positive when Mastin started posting but if his answer was before Mastin's post I think its plausible to suggest he wanted to stay in RVS as long as he could. Why else would he not bring up a real reason if he had it? And also he says he's going to focus on Hero-Flava, doesn't mention why and then never does it. This is also pretty scummy. flava did not do this case justice.

[Noramp]

prolonging the rvs means the town takes longer to get into the real game where we discuss real issues. This seems beneficial for scum because whereas rvs can be good to look back at in later days, in terms of a Day 1 lynch its fairly worthless because we don't know anyones alignments. This was my take on it. Do you disagree Yabba?

[Noramp]

Orange can you remind what exactly your case was on me?

[Noramp]

Hero have you claimed yet?

And sorry guys I'm so used to having a deadline its ingrained in me.

[Noramp]

guys im going to be forced to lynch hero soon because it gives us a better chance of catching scum. Idk if i really buy heros case but I know im not scum so either we've been swayed by the scum or Heros been able to fool me.

*Newb Question*
Is it good practice to wait for Hero to claim if I'm pretty much 100% going to lynch him?

[Noramp]

Yabba I know that I'm town therefore it is a better chance because whereas I'm not positive that Hero is scum I know that I'm not therefore from my perspective I know that Hero is a better chance at hitting scum. sorry if that was confusing.

At this point would you agree that Hero or myself are going to be the lynchees? or do you think from my perspective it would be wise since I don't like the Hero wagon to wait and see if a different wagon arises because personally I really dont see the possibility of someone else getting rung up to L-1.

[Noramp]

Zazie youre our spark plug where have you gone?

[Noramp]

Sorry Yabba I somehow missed that post. I would rather see Hero lynched than myself and that means since I thought we were both at L-1 that if you weren't going to vote Hero for the hammer I would have to which I would be willing to do because it assures that we at least have a chance to hit scum. So whether I agree with the case or not at least at the end of the day we have a chance.

[Noramp]

I'm seeing Flava and Falko as neck and neck, and I have some questions concerning Falko because I'm a little confused about his comments regarding the seriousness of his Hero vote. So right now I would say that Flava is my number one and thats why my vote is on him but Falko is right there and might even be scummier if he ever comes back long enough to answer some questions.

[Noramp]

oh and in terms of the Hero issue, I dont get why its ridiculous to rather see Hero lynched than myself. I dislike the case against me more than against him but I will certainly wait to see what happens and see if one of my choices gets rung up

[Noramp]

i don't really see how i was trying to stop the discussion, and if you ignore whether or not I was trying to stop discussion and you look at the pure meanings of our posts are they not the same? Mastin also said something similar in his original posts. Yet they are not accused of stopping discussion. Half of the town wasn't involved in the that discussion so how is it scummy that I asked a question that was similar to Mastins and then was later reiterated by Yabba. Obviously other people are considering this problem and not just me yet I'm the only one receiving flak because supposedly i was stifling discussion. Should i have waited until everyone started lurking to ask?

[Noramp]

[quote='Zazie'] And I think you are scum mainly due to the question you asked about if we didn't prefer to lynch Wolves first, or something like that. [/quote]

Again why do Mastin and Yabba slide by for making similar remarks?

[Noramp]

And I think you are scum mainly due to the question you asked about if we didn't prefer to lynch Wolves first, or something like that.

whoops

[Noramp]

Extremely scummy statement. This just sounds like scum trying to put the brakes on someone's scumhunting by suggesting other candidates are more viable than themselves. This just wreaks of cornered scum trying to drag people down with them. My newbtown speculation is back-burnered now.

No i was just confused because in my eyes I didn't see a difference between the three of us, and that was Zazie's main argument against me. So it seemed as if he was protecting you and Mastin. He explained it though and I suppose I sort of understand what Zazie is talking about.

[Noramp]

No i was just confused because in my eyes I didn't see a difference between the three of us, and that was Zazie's main argument against me. So it seemed as if he was protecting you and Mastin. He explained it though and I suppose I sort of understand what Zazie is talking about.

I don't buy that.

I dont know what else to say to persuade you. i was legitimately confused and suspicious, you not buying a legitimate reason makes me a little more suspicious between a Yabba/Zazie connection.

[Noramp]

Wait?!? You didnt read my reasoning at all but decided to not buy it?

[Noramp]

Zazie

I sort of had this discussion with Yabba already but its fine. I wanted to lynch Hero because I figured it would be either him or me and I didn't really see things, in terms of bandwagons, changing very quickly. I was also under the impression that we were short on time rather than had loads of it. I'm no longer looking to hammer but as each day goes on without Hero doing something substantial my scumdar peaks a little more. Hes now told us twice with huge intervals of time that he's behind in this game. This seems extremely scummy. And I asked for him to claim because I thought we were short on time and I was going to hammer.

Well Zazie I don't really know what else to do, my vote is on Flava and I would move it to Falko happily if something were to arise. I've shown my case against both players and it seems the town agrees that Hero or myself are the better choices for today.

newbie 802: I feel to an extent I answered this in the one above. There wasn't too much discussion going on during the hammer talk so I'm not sure how this relates to your third point because I wouldn't being cutting off discussion.

@Yabba You're missing the part where I mention the connection. To me it seemed almost like Zazie was protecting you and Mastin because from my point of view the posts seemed very similar. So why target me out of the three of us? She explained it and it made sense to me. but then you said you didn't buy my reason which was legitimate which made me think that you two were ganging up over something that was excusable in my mind.

[Noramp]

At this point Hero is getting just as scummy/annoying as Falko. Popping in every prod to say cya until next prod. Can we request a replacement?

[Noramp]

I'm starting to think Hero is telling us he's seer so he can live through Day 1 without actually trying hopefully getting a counter claim in the process. He starting to smell like a WW.

unvote

[Noramp]

@Zazie, we were down to two potential bandwagons and Yabba agreed with me. I'm not going to hammer myself and if I'm going to hammer Hero I'm going to ask him to claim. Now that he has claimed I don't know that I necessarily buy it and it actually makes me sort of suspicious of Hero.

[Noramp]

Well I wasn't suspicious of Hero but then with his claim of Seer, I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't know how to act confident when I'm not.

vote: Hero

Because scum don't care about the Seer its just another townie to them. WWs though hes the cop. If they could find him on day 1 at the cost of one of their WWs, that would be a fair trade to them I'm sure. So Hero seeing he's going down claims seer in the hope of a counter claim or if no one counter claims it raises the chances of him living through the day.

[Noramp]

unvote vote Noramp

many mistakes to learn from from this game:/ I don't want you guys to wait another week for those guys to hammer me when it's going to happen.

Good luck brethren