Open 155 - Jungle Republic - Game Over before 816

[Drench]

Deadline ahoy. You have until the 18th of A

pril

ugust, 9:15AM GMT+10.

The Thirteenth Vote Count: "Jungle Timing"

Noramp

- 5 - Crazy, ChaosOmega, orangepenguin, ZazieR, Hero764

yabbaguy
Flava Flave

- 1 - Noramp

Mastin

ZazieR
orangepenguin

Crazy
falkomagno

- 1 - yabbaguy

Netlava
ChaosOmega
Cephrir

Hero764

- 5 - falkomagno, molestargazer, Mastin, Cephrir, Flava Flave

Not Voting:

If you see any discrepancies, please let me know.

[yabbaguy]

you must admit the chances of all of us being scum is very slim, so you can pretty much conclude there is at least one pro-town person on the Noramp wagon

---

Thanks for hopping in Crazy, but yea, Noramp, since there was no deadline set at that point, delaying RVS is null at this point.

Yes, I disagree.

@Netlava-349: Why? What reasons mentioned or ones you came up with yourself stick out?

[Netlava]

- Mastin's overreaction point
- Hero has mostly been playing defense, little offense
- Links between Hero & other players
- Hero tries to set up links himself
- Too many questions about the case against him (fluff content)

I see some links between Hero and others if Hero flips mafia. But I need to see what he flips first.

[Noramp]

Hero have you claimed yet?

And sorry guys I'm so used to having a deadline its ingrained in me.

[Netlava]

This day isn't going to end itself.

[yabbaguy]

This day isn't going to end itself.

Uhh... yes it is. There's a deadline now. And the more you try to accelerate the Day, the scummier you look.

I'll buy into the little offense point.

Overreaction point, well, that's still speculative. Possible, but speculative.

Can you cite examples of Hero linking himself to others? With nobody flipping, what good does that do?

I don't understand what the case is about asking questions about a fluff case. If you're scumhunting well, don't you want to be probing those stupid questions?

[Crazy]

I've read through the thread and I suspect Hero myself too.

Okay, but can you tell us why? Just saying "lynch him" isn't very compelling. Me, I'd rather lynch Noramp, or even Flava; I don't see Hero as that scummy.

And you said you were voting him under the impression that he was mafia. The only reason I see why you would say that is because you see multiple people that you think he's scum with. Who do you think is scum with him, and why?

you must admit the chances of all of us being scum is very slim, so you can pretty much conclude there is at least one pro-town person on the Noramp wagon

Not WIFOM... I was just saying that any selection of 5 people is bound to contain at least 1 townie, due to pure probability.

[Noramp]

guys im going to be forced to lynch hero soon because it gives us a better chance of catching scum. Idk if i really buy heros case but I know im not scum so either we've been swayed by the scum or Heros been able to fool me.

*Newb Question*
Is it good practice to wait for Hero to claim if I'm pretty much 100% going to lynch him?

[ZazieR]

I think I missed some things >.<
Will get to this game tomorrow.

[yabbaguy]

Okay, first off, I don't want a lynch. We're still looking for one replacement, the deadline doesn't hit for another couple of weeks, and I still have a lot of questions I want answered.

guys im going to be forced to lynch hero soon because it gives us a better chance of catching scum.

Change:

Noramp >>>

tilting

scummy

This sounds like scum trying to opportunistically end the Day right now without his ass getting lynched. Accelerating the Day is even more scummy when you're under pressure and in danger of a lynch yourself.

I don't even know what "better chance" means. Do you consider Hero scummiest? Is that what you mean?

PS: Yes, by all means permit a claim from anyone in danger of a lynch.

[Netlava]

A deadline doesn't address a 5 to 5 tie. Votes do.

Who I think Hero is scum with I'll reveal after Hero gets lynched and if he flips mafia.

Some elaboration about the Hero case:

When Hero repeatedly asks questions about the case against him, it reads to me as scum who is curious about what he is doing wrong. It does not read to me as Hero probing against his attacker because he hardly goes on the offensive when doing so.

Instead, his reaction consists of passive-agressive statements like "Wtf?" I don't think a townie would make such statements as "wtf?" A player confused at another player's behavior would question it or express confusion. A player who thinks someone else is being ridiculous might say "wtf?" In Hero's case, Hero is expressing confusion with the statement wtf - hence the overreaction part.

[Noramp]

Yabba I know that I'm town therefore it is a better chance because whereas I'm not positive that Hero is scum I know that I'm not therefore from my perspective I know that Hero is a better chance at hitting scum. sorry if that was confusing.

At this point would you agree that Hero or myself are going to be the lynchees? or do you think from my perspective it would be wise since I don't like the Hero wagon to wait and see if a different wagon arises because personally I really dont see the possibility of someone else getting rung up to L-1.

[yabbaguy]

@Netlava-360: I think townies tend to get pissed when they're faced with outlandish facts. I think this is the sign of a weak townie, as this should be an opportunity to probe possible scum further in a calm fashion, but I don't see that as a scumtell.

Your "curious about what he's doing wrong" bit does legitimately interest me. Can you point out a few of these for me?

@Noramp-361:

Yabba I know that I'm town-

At least five people don't buy that.

If you're asking whether today's lynch is between you and Hero, I think that's a pretty safe bet, at present. I don't know if things will change, but you're right in saying it is very likely it'll be one of you two.

If you don't like the Hero wagon, what was with your threatening "I'm going to be forced to lynch him soon." Why are you doing that?

---

Also, let's clarify something. It's 7 to lynch. Both of you have 5. You two are at L-2.

[Flava Flave]

Flava from what I saw your case was based on him not answering your question. In my opinion he did answer your question and that was all you called him out on.

Actually, the way he answered it was what I didn't like because the sarcasm wasn't a good answer.

That alone is suspicious because he did several other things yet you didn't bring them up, Zazie did. These were the things I found suspicious. When he changed his mind and told us that his vote on Hero was actually serious after playing it off the whole game he went up a lot in my scum book.

I actually don't have a problem with that.

And to top it off he disappeared.

Yep. His lurking is scummy.

@Flave-313:

Yeah, that was the intent. Things that make a point stand out: Bolding, italics, profanity, repetition, sarcasm, caps, insults.

I'm trying to drive the point that that's the sign of an insecure debater. Someone who has to use those types of emphasis (which really don't look that good) so that points stand out.

Sorry about misconstruing the "why will I hate your play" statement.

Actually, anything that makes your points clear is an effective tool.

And it's all good.

I find the Flava-Noramp debate rather hilarious, considering the fact that it's two opposing scum teams at each others' throats.

Flava and Noramp are both raising good points, because they're both right in the fact that the other is scum.

Amongst Flava's strongest points is the fact that Noramp is chainsaw defending Falko, a fact I find to be rather accurate. (Noramp-Falko is my current top pick for a wolf-team.)

Heh, at least you agree with me. It's a start.

I haven't dismissed anything.

I only said that a Falko/Hero scumteam is more likely than Falko/Ceph.

And I've given plenty of reasoning against you. OMGUS wasn't one of my points, so I don't see why you feel the need to defend against that.

You put Cephrir in your town-pile simply because of falko's random vote. I think something like that is too arbitrary to be

mentioned

at this point.

Well. I guess he could still be scum opposing Falko, but I just don't see him with Noramp either. So he's more likely town than anything else.

Who I think Hero is scum with I'll reveal after Hero gets lynched and if he flips mafia.

Why so confident about surviving the night?

[yabbaguy]

Actually, anything that makes your points clear is an effective tool.

Oh no it ain't. (Open 160, Post 70- BC lashes out with excessive bolding and the works, flips scum)

Why so confident about surviving the night?

That's a very strange way to word the question of "why not tell us now".

[Netlava]

@Netlava-360: I think townies tend to get pissed when they're faced with outlandish facts. I think this is the sign of a weak townie, as this should be an opportunity to probe possible scum further in a calm fashion, but I don't see that as a scumtell.

I think townies tend to get suspicious when they see outlandish facts. So they question those outlandish facts, not go "wtf?" imo.

Your "curious about what he's doing wrong" bit does legitimately interest me. Can you point out a few of these for me?

Well, Hero spends the whole day asking questions about the case against him. His questions aren't the probing type, so I don't see why else he would ask so many questions. Plus, asking questions is a way to look active without saying anything, which is why I also consider it fluff to look active.

[ChaosOmega]

Unbelievable.

unvote, vote: Mastin

I'll switch back to Noramp at deadline if necessary to secure a lynch.

I feel like I'm in an episode of The Twilight Zone. I saw that post and was stunned. You have the balls to post in Mafia Discussion about how lurking isn't a scumtell while lurking in this game. Let me be the voice of common sense here and say that instead of making that useless post, you could have, oh, I don't know, POSTED IN THIS GAME. You've made over 40 posts since last posting here, so a no access excuse won't fly. And you can give me your bullshit "Oh, it's a null tell for me because everything's a null tell for me, blah blah blah", I don't care. You're lurking in this game, and regardless of your opinion on the matter, it's scummy as hell to me.

Let me quote something from your post to get more pissed off:

It's not pro-town to do,
And is inheritantly anti-town in nature,

Stop right here. You agree that lurking is anti-town. This means that lurking hurts the town. Now, if you're hurting the town, you're helping the scum (and werewolves in this case).

We could piss into the wind awhile and argue game theory and have a debate over whether lurking is a scumtell, but I'd rather not. The fact is, you're doing something that is hurting the town, regardless of your alignment. If you're town, your play right now is pretty pathetic, especially since you posted elsewhere saying that what you're doing is anti-town. The point of being a pro-town role is to do pro-town things. If you saw a nun out on the corner giving blowjobs for cash, you'd think she was a whore. Same concept here.

[Crazy]

Hmm, I saw that topic by Mastin a while ago in Mafia Discussion, but I never really thought much of it.

You're right... posting that topic while lurking in this game was stupid, and yes, it's anti-town. But is it scummy?

Firstly, by posting that in Mafia Discussion, Mastin assures us that he

does

believe that lurking is not a scum-tell. Lying in MD to help oneself in a game would be

extremely

bad form, and I don't think anybody I know would actually do that.

His actual argument is debatable and I don't think it's particularly relevant here.

As another point, why would scum purposefully lurk? The only reason would be to fly under the radar. Do Mastin's earlier posts from this game (or any game) reflect that he's trying to fly under the radar? No, so hasn't he already broken that strategy?

In your post, Chaos, you did not express how Mastin lurking is

scummy

, only how it is anti-town and how it pisses you off. Well yeah, I agree. But if Mastin is lurking in this game for strategic reasons, that means he lied in Mafia Discussion, and I don't buy that.

[yabbaguy]

@Netlava-365: Thank you.

@Mastin: Why did you decide to post the topic in Mafia Discussion? Did an event in some game prompt you to get this message across?

[Noramp]

Zazie youre our spark plug where have you gone?

[yabbaguy]

Zazie youre our spark plug where have you gone?

This is a greatly fascinating statement. I'm still trying to figure out it's scumminess/towniness as we speak.

Noramp, why aren't you trying to generate thoughts of your own? And my question to you in 362, I would like an answer to.

[orangepenguin]

Unbelievable.

unvote, vote: Mastin

I'll switch back to Noramp at deadline if necessary to secure a lynch.

I feel like I'm in an episode of The Twilight Zone. I saw that post and was stunned. You have the balls to post in Mafia Discussion about how lurking isn't a scumtell while lurking in this game. Let me be the voice of common sense here and say that instead of making that useless post, you could have, oh, I don't know, POSTED IN THIS GAME. You've made over 40 posts since last posting here, so a no access excuse won't fly. And you can give me your bullshit "Oh, it's a null tell for me because everything's a null tell for me, blah blah blah", I don't care. You're lurking in this game, and regardless of your opinion on the matter, it's scummy as hell to me.

Let me quote something from your post to get more pissed off:

It's not pro-town to do,
And is inheritantly anti-town in nature,

Stop right here. You agree that lurking is anti-town. This means that lurking hurts the town. Now, if you're hurting the town, you're helping the scum (and werewolves in this case).

We could piss into the wind awhile and argue game theory and have a debate over whether lurking is a scumtell, but I'd rather not. The fact is, you're doing something that is hurting the town, regardless of your alignment. If you're town, your play right now is pretty pathetic, especially since you posted elsewhere saying that what you're doing is anti-town. The point of being a pro-town role is to do pro-town things. If you saw a nun out on the corner giving blowjobs for cash, you'd think she was a whore. Same concept here.

While I agree with everyone you said, I am getting a extremely bad vibe from this post. I don't know how to explain it, but the fact that you're voting based on something out-of-thread just seems... opportunistic? Not sure if that is the best way to describe it. But I do agree that what he is doing is scummy, but maybe he has a reason for what he did? Also, you said town about 100 times in that post, making you a bit desperate to sound town. I don't know.

[Noramp]

Sorry Yabba I somehow missed that post. I would rather see Hero lynched than myself and that means since I thought we were both at L-1 that if you weren't going to vote Hero for the hammer I would have to which I would be willing to do because it assures that we at least have a chance to hit scum. So whether I agree with the case or not at least at the end of the day we have a chance.

[Drench]

Remember folks, if you want prods all you have to do is ask!

[Crazy]

While I agree with everyone you said, I am getting a extremely bad vibe from this post. I don't know how to explain it, but the fact that you're voting based on something out-of-thread just seems... opportunistic? Not sure if that is the best way to describe it. But I do agree that what he is doing is scummy, but maybe he has a reason for what he did? Also, you said town about 100 times in that post, making you a bit desperate to sound town. I don't know.

This post lacks any sort of confidence or substance whatsoever. It seems like you're afraid of Chaos retaliating.

What I don't get is why if you agree that what Mastin is doing is scummy, then how is it opportunistic if Chaos pointed it out?

Also, if I repeated the word "antelope," would that mean that I'm trying to look like an antelope?