Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Faraday]

Wow, Mastin's on crack. And he didn't die on Night 0, which means he's scum.

vote: Mastin

(OMG Bandwagon!)

More seriously, I'm a miller. So if any cops investigated me, adjust your sanity accordingly.

Miller claiming early is of benefit, means a cop won't waste investgation on him.

I guess it's possible your scum claiming miller but it seems a sub-optimal strategy to me for scum, due to 1) the attention that's drawn to a miller claim and 2) millers being vigged is very common, so yeh.

Scum-tell 420: Claiming miller early on as mafia.

What's scum tell 420? And does this mean you consider miller claiming early as a scum tell?

no mastin, backing up your kublai khan vote with the fact that he claimed miller is not "icing on the cake" and i will not let you pretend its part of your meaningless antics, its scummy and you will now be lynched. trying to unconfirm a player who is now as good as confirmed town will not stand on my watch.

I guess this is actually a fair point, and although I dont' consider him as good as confirmed, I understand the position.

The mastin proceeds to unvote here;

Mastin Unvotes: Kublai Khan.

Because it is no longer the RVS, I need not my true RVS vote.

Why did you unvote here? Sure it's no longer the "rvs" but, there's no harm keeping your vote. Looks more like you unvoted b/c rofl called you on it.

Holy ever-loving shit!! I don't think I've ever come across a player quite like Mastin.

I seriously don't know what to do with that wall of information that he has put up in the last hour......which is probably what he wants.

Well, Idk you could always read the information and see what you think of it?

What do you mean "which is probably what he wants".

Gets discussion going. My RVS tactics get us discussing, even if it's discussion on me. I like the pressure. I love Slayer's/Fong's gambit

Pffffft it sucks and you know it

As for Mastin behaving differently, well I've read/reading along with a few of his games and he appears to be consistent in all of them, so yeh it seems the "norm" so to speak.

--------------------------

roflcopter is pressing for a lynch quite hard. This does seem typical Mastin, but I'm not sure if I'll believe it this time around. No vote for either of you yet until I read more of your behaviors.

This seems weird to me. It's like "you're ok for now, but I may find you scummy in the future" kinda thing.

And don't worry, Khan. I won't kill ya.

erm, what's the point of this?

------------

Mastin do you consider bandwaggoning to be a scum tell/scummy?

I find roflcopters constant strait up blaming Mastin being scum kinda scummy. Though I have to admit, I believe he brings up a few valid points.

So rofl is scummy for thinking Mastin is scum, yet rofl brings up some valid points. This sounds rather strange, so can you please clarify what you mean here?

Well, here are my thoughts so far- Mastin is being, well, Mastin. I'd be more worried if he acted sane. Roflcopter seems a bit scummy to me for tunneling Mastin with no real reason. Kise's voting Johnny seems really weird to me. Why him, out of all the other people who haven't posted? Out of the 21 still alive, haven't only about 7 or so posted?

Unvote, Vote Kise

.

You accept Mastin is being mastin, however rofl seems like rofl to me so far. If you're going to use meta to excuse one players actions, then surely it's strange not to apply this to everyone?

Also Kise's vote seems perfectly reasonable. he gave his reasons for it.
He didn't vote Johnny for not posting, so the 7/21 posting is an unneccessary point.

Gonna end this here as it's probably long enough, will continue it in another post.

[Faraday]

Blaming does indeed mean accusing n this case. In fact I hardly see a differance between the two words. I'll admit it's there, but it's subtle. I'm saying your attack on Mastin is scummy because it started on the first post of the second stage. The RVS didn't even seem over at that point, yet you just claimed it was.

To be honest I don't fully comprehend your cake and eating comment, but I do like cake so I will eat some(insert the eating of cake here)
But really, You did have a few valid points, and I think at least, it would be foolish to not acknowledge that.

It's only a little after midnight here, but I have to record in the morning so i'm off to bed unless there is a post I find interesting after I'm done posting this.

Why does when an attack start make it scummy?

You can't say "he's scummy, although his points are valid", well you can, and have, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

If you think he's making good points, then why does it matter if he started attacking early.


59 is a good post.

Ugh I have to be off now.

But yeh so far, rofl seems pro-town to me.

I find hayker and fallen angel to be scummy.

Mastin's posts are reasonable enough, although a bit long, but meh. He's scum-hunting, and appears to be doing so honestly.

Vote Hayker

for the moment, I'll read the rest of the thread later on, I expect another 4 pages

[Faraday]

You know, I am just going to be 100% honest with how I feel right now....

I don't know if Mastin is scum or not. What I do know is, his style of play last night was un-constructive (to say the least) and downright distracting.

That being said, it may be in the best interest of the town to vote Mastin out, whether he be scum OR town. If he flips scum, we score. If he flips town, then we lose a townie, but we also lose a HUGE distraction.

I will reserve my vote for the moment, to see how others feel about my opinion.

(why do I have the feeling I am about to be shit upon?)

It's good to see you being 100% honest,

"His style of play last night" , erm this is the first game day. What do you mean.

And no, we're here to lynch scum, anti-town players =/= scum. if you think he's distracting fine, but unless you think he's scum you shouldn't be wanting to lynch him.

And why are you reserving your vote? Use your vote, don't wait to see if others agree w/ you before voting. That's scummy.

And I don't shit on people, seems like an awful thing to do.

[Faraday]

Mastin I believe you are using a lot of sarcasm in your posts and thats definitly not helping the town and its going to create confusion.

Please try to keep answers straight for the most part.

Erm yeh, I don't see sarcasm as creating confusion. His asnwers seems generally clear, can you give a few examples of where you think he hasn't been clear?

Also MM( your new name) what's your opinion on KK's miller claim? You've asked zazie's but did you state yours?

[Faraday]

Happy scumday MM!

[Faraday]

Yeh but why doesn't it sit well?

If he's making valid points, then he's scummy b/c of what? His playstyle?

[Faraday]

He's scummy because of saying the RVS was over, when it clearly wasn't to the majority of the players.

Why is that scummy?

@ Fallen Angel, I consider hayker scummy for reasons outlined, basically I think his comments on rolf or very odd, and I don't like his reasoning here. Seems like he's making stuff up.


As for you, excusing mastin for his meta, but not applying the same standard to rofl.
also your vote on kise is strange and seems like an indirect defense of Johnny.

[Faraday]

Also there's a shit load of people who have yet to post. This game has started pretty damn fast.

[Faraday]

Hey Ckool! nice to see you again

[Faraday]

Eh you're going to have to explain to me how that's a scumslip Zazie.

[Faraday]

The "3am before bed post"

Because in the quote, especially the bolded, he shows that he knows it wasn''t the other scumteam. And that''s only possible if you''re part of it.
Therefore, scumslip.

Perhaps, I don't know. I didn't quite read it like that, I'll let KK explain it though, as I'm interested in seeing what he says.

Again, why keep a vote on someone if they're not your primary suspect?
Khan's worthy of keeping an eye on. Not worthy of keeping a vote on.

Alright, this is reasonable

Considering my post length...
That takes some serious skill.

I enjoy reading mafia games almost as much as playing in them

Like I said, you can think someone's scummy (or even know that they're scum), yet still admit that they do raise some good points. I don't really see the problem with it.

I guess, although the reasons for finding rofl suspicious were rather, sup par, I felt.

Eh, fair request. Don't really see the point, though

No harm asking

Nothing else I felt particularly note-worthy atm.

I'm knackered, but yeh MM, who do you think is scum at this point?

Also Ckool, who is the only player who I've actually played a game with here seems to be playing similarly to how he did in our newbie game, except more experienced

Anyway hitting the bed, I'm sure ye bastards will post up a storm during the night and give me loads to read

[Faraday]

Alright, I'm back.......

I do have one random, off topic question. What the hell is a "scum-day"? Is that just a fancy name for birthday? (yes, it is 3 am and I am tired)



Anyway, back on topic.....I tend to look at things in a fairly black and white kind of way. Yes, the object of the game is to lynch scum (from a town standpoint) or to lynch town (from a mafia standpoint), with the

ultimate objective

being to eliminate all of the other side.

Now, my call for other people opinions on Mastin was made with the

ultimate objective

in mind, which is winning the damn game!!!

Face it, Mastin (at least so far) has been THE talk of the game. If he is town, then all he is doing is taking attention away from finding the scum. All the mafia members can sit back and fly UTR, because good ole Mastin will be drawing all the heat on himself.

THAT is why I feel he makes for the best lynch at this point. A few other players that have experience with Mastin say that he plays all of his games like this, from start to finish. In my opinion, he is a detriment to the town, and should be lynched.

Vote: Mastin

Now, the reason that I did not want to vote before is simple.....the game JUST started!! The deadline is what, 3 weeks away? I didn't see the need to do that yet, but apparently my opinion was the opposite of "good game logic", hence my above vote.

You're not scum hunting. Policy lynches are bad, policy lynches on players adding contribution (and fucking loads of it) to the game are amazingly stupid.

And he's not "taking attention away from finding scum", that only happens if you're lazy. Just read/skim his posts if you wish, but I really don't see what's so bad about him so far

And as for the KK slip, I buy his explanation as that's how I originally read it.

I don't like the fact he's not sure if he's a death miller though, since when is death miller a normal role anyway? Time's are a-changing I guess.

[Faraday]

Who? Mastin? Trying to find scum, why do you ask?

[Faraday]

Not quoting but referencing post numbers here, sorry if this is awkward/annoying w/e but yeh.

Also how do you link to a specific post? Or can you?

You know what I think? I think the following people REALLY need to share their opinions/what they've found out:

Achilles
BloodCovenent
dvdkid13
Namttam
Redith
reveillark

Seriously, you six are on the borderline of lurking.

You too Wickedestjr... But you posted right before this post, so at least we know you're here.

Calm it. The game has only been up since Sunday, it's possible there not aware of it's existence yet.

MM's

254 is fairly fence sitting-ish. he may or may not find 2 people scummy is the tl;dr of it.
He does state two people he's no longer suspicious of, so at least we're getting opinions from him.

----------------

FA

is 258 your top suspects? if you believe MM and Ckool are playing similarly which you said in a later post, then why is only one of them in your suspects list?

If this isn't a suspect list then this doesn't matter, but it's kinda weird if it is.

263- Appeal to emotion? And also did you seriously think he was condoning his own lynch. I read nothing from him that sounds like that at all.

MM's

273 is correct, Ckool. Don't be afraid to post, and keep giving us your thoughts plz.

--------------------

Reveillark

(now rev). Why not vote in your initial post? I mean you seem to have enough suspicioun for a vote on someone. Votes are good.

As for your reasoning on Ckool, hmm I think 1 and 3 are valid, but I'd disagree that 2 and 4 are scummy.

Ugh zazie seems to be asking some of the questions I'm asking, that's good in one way, in that it makes me feel better about her, but bad in a I want to ask them first way Yeh don't worry I'll not pout.

------------

Looking at the vote count, too many people not voting at all. C'mon people lay your votes down, I find it hard to believe you don't have any suspects by now.

[Faraday]

Yeh, got it Thanks.

And as for KK, I don't like his confusion over his role at all. I think it's much more damning than any slip, btw. Surely if you're a miller you know you're a miller and not a death miller. Like, and if it wasn't clear from the role pm you pm the mod, or well I would Idk I've never been a miller.

So yeh I feel less confident about it now. I've no problem with his non miller related play though, i.e. most of the stuff he's said about people, seems reasonable.

I believe he also promised a list or something soon, so I'm interested to see it.

[Faraday]

Do you've any thoughts about the people w/o votes? It just seems strange to pick the people with votes (some of them only 1) to focus on.

[Faraday]

Also I'm out of town for the next 2/3 days. Not sure if I'll have internet access, so possible V/LA.

[Faraday]

Also, why are people always posting during 1-4 a.m. Why don't you post when you are awake and can give us your most decent opinions. Not that I am saying any posts following these sort of comments have been bad, but I am just requesting this for the future

Eh, I post when I'm online, . I don't see why this is a problem as long as it's not being used as an excuse.


Also with that being said, I'm back, and gonna read over what I missed now.

[Faraday]

If kublai is town, then this is the best thing that he could have done. If he is mafia, well who knows. But he should be vig-killed and investigated. So when he is killed, hopefully cop can claim and we can figure out the sanity of the cop.

This is awful.
First directing the vig, I'm sure if we have a vig they can use their own discretion.
Then the directing the cop to investigate a miller, which is just bad, imo.
And then asking the cop to claim. Explain why the cop would claim, and how "we" could help him figure out his sanity. Surely the cop could figure that out on his own

Anything to add to the game Empking?

@Achilles (311): Why did you only focus on those who have votes?

A user asked for the people who hadn't posted much yet to post their opinion, so I figured the best way was to just comment on people who were already under suspicion. I can't think of other people beside the ones who currently have votes who stand out to me a suspicious, so I didn't comment on anyone else.

Yeh, but you could have at least said that. By commenting on the people already under suspicion it seems to be taking an easy way out. Also I find it hard to believe you have no opinion at all on anyone lacking a vote.

I'd also like to state before going on, that my posts around the beggining were all made at midnight-2amish. Therefore my thought process is kinda flawed.

This is scummy. Seems like you're making excuses if anyone finds you scummy. "Oh I wasn't thinking straight", is an easy way out.

Also I agree w/ MM in regards to "Don't answer questions if you don't know what you're talking about thing", it is misleading, wheter it's meant to be or not is another thing.

FA: The same question still applies then, why leave one of them off and the other on the list. If you felt they were both acting similarly, then why not just put both of them down on your "not really suspect list"

1) Assuming there are multiple scumgroups, then the celebrating of a mafia doctor dead is an extremely valid tell.

Why is the tell more valid with multiple scum-groups?

Hayker

: What the fuck is this about?

----------------

You are voting Ckool for

being

coached? Surely if you think there's some malicious reason for coaching, then hayker would be a better vote. At least that makes more sense to me.

People Fos'ing CKOOL, he's said similar things before, in this game, yet no Fos. Why the change now?

Eh this seems a stretch. I don't think this was what he was saying at all.

Also are scum more likely to OMGUS than town, FA?

Currently, I'm seeing ckool5000 more and more as scum. I felt 377 was just him trying to post something worthwhile, but 390 and subsequent posts seemed like scumtell.

Which of his posts "seemed like a scumtell" to you. Can you per chance be any less vague?

I thought a player as good as yourself would already know this. :/

I've only played 2 games on this site Never needed it before.

I guess I was right in post 128: The more I post, the more I look like an idiot . (If you don't believe me about that, ask Faraday about my first game...)

Not sure if he did, but

Faraday

can you tell us a bit more?

Yeh, this newbie game is where Ckool was town and was an easy mis-lynch. I was scum in that game too. Just read day 1 and it should give you an idea what he's talking about. But basically he seemed to put his fut in his mouth a few times, and was over eager and ended up looking pretty damn scummy.


So yeh all caught up. Ckool wagon is weak, and the timing seems weird to me also. Considering he seemed to me to be at least consitent in his train of thought that he looks stupid if he posts more.

Glad to have replacements in too

[Faraday]

Ugh zazie seems to be asking some of the questions I'm asking, that's good in one way, in that it makes me feel better about her, but bad in a I want to ask them first way Yeh don't worry I'll not pout.

Does it really matter who asks the questions as long as they are asked? I want an answer to this.

An answer to what? The fact it was an obvious joke? I find it hard to believe this is a legitimate concern of yours.

The comment was meant to indicate that Zazie seems to be thinking similar to me on a number of issues, I believe if people are thinking similar to me, or asking similar questions then it makes them more likely to be town, as they're scumhunting.

Also why are you so concerned what time people post at?

P.s. adding "I want an answer" isn't needed. Generally when someone asks a question, they want an answer

I guess it might just be me. So unless someone wants to elborate some more, imma go back through, for the 8th time. :/

Erm , yes. Give thoughts on the game other than just a vague one liner, thank ya very much.

[Faraday]

Less role discussion. Don't see how it helps us. Also I'd not consider Jailkeeper non normal at all.


@ Achillies. of course the reads are still valid. Obviously a replacement can't explain his predeccesors actions, and should be judged somewhat on their own play, but I don't really think "a clean slate" works well in practise either.

[Faraday]

Sorry been neglecting this game for a bit, doesn't look like i've missed much.

will catch up later today, just posting to let people know i'm here.

[Faraday]

@Everybody who thinks that Kublai is town even after my discussion with him.

Please state the reason why.

The only thing I've seen from him that's scummy is the Death miller/miller thing.

The rest of his play looks rather pro-town to me, I just see no reason to see him as scum.
I feel there are scummier people about.

Also this game seems to be in a lull atm
I realise I haven't been posting either, busy with another game here, and 2 offsite, but yeh.

Lowell's intro seems solid, as I thought I've said.

Looking forward to when CKD catches up too (too many people needing replacement ).

[Faraday]

@Everybody who thinks that Kublai is town even after my discussion with him.

Please state the reason why.

The only thing I've seen from him that's scummy is the Death miller/miller thing.

The rest of his play looks rather pro-town to me, I just see no reason to see him as scum.
I feel there are scummier people about.

The death miller/miller thing shows that he's caught in a lie. You do not find this lie vote worthy?

He was caught in a lie how? By saying he wasn't sure what he was and would ask the mod?

I don't see that as a lie.

[Faraday]

rl hassle :/

don't expect much for a few days.

[Faraday]

I don't see that as a lie.

see this

Where's the lie in this post? Maybe I'm blind, are you reffering to the IRC thing?

[Faraday]

general malaise and apathy i would say

Kinda same for me, tho' the game appears to have picked up in my absence.

I don't likeFA dismissing Lowell thinking he's scum as an old grudge? That's weak


Kise:

Where
did you previously voice this suspicioun of FA, Kise? I don't remember you believeing he was scum. Have you mentioned it? Or was it a secret suspicioun.


Kise, I'd also not mind a summary of the points against Rotten , as I don't see what he's done that's particularly scummy, or remember anything anyway.
This would be appreciated, if possible.

Wicked:

Let's not be getting any ideas from Empking.

Unexplained votes can serve their purpose, imo.

Dvd vote is ok., are you caught up on the game btw? Cos this seems to have happened a while ago.

Because they are always using it as an excuse

I agree that that's scummy, if used as an excuse. if not it's not a problem.

I just wanted you to answer that question.

Oops sorry, I was kinda snippy there

Moving on, it seems Vp Valtar is town, this is good to know.

Welcome Clergy!

Possible scumslip, though. The classic way for the leader of a group to address their group is to call them "men". Like, say, "the men I command are loyal to me". This would fit with a Mafia Godfather-type role.
It's a stretch, though. :/

That's like the biggest stretch ever mastin.


Eh,

All caught up. Want to see CKD/Clergy get caught up, and everyone should be up to date.

Hayker still has my vote, but I'd not mind a Fallen Angel lynch either, and could easily switch my vote over. They'd be my top two by a bit. Emp and achillies haven't done any scum-hunting from memory too, and appear to be fairly useless. Could be wrong, but nothing stands out.

Baltar looks obv town to me, and the Johnny Rotten wagon itself was weird.
Lowell also looks quite good from memory.
I think Zazie is making a mountain out of a mole hill over the miller issue. I agree w/ the earlier rofl post about why miller claim won't let him live to endgame.

Ckool looks like newbtown to me still, but he's never played a game as scum to my knowledge. However his play mirrors my first game on this site with him, so I'm not worried about him for the moment.I also don't buy this supposed lie, and think the slip regarding the vig, is what he said it was.

I'd like to see rofl get back into the game too, I can understand his feelings, but yeh, get back in the game plz.


Sorry this is kinda rough, but i needed to get back into the game and this was the easiest way to do so, as if not I'd probably just continue to lag behind.

[Faraday]

Way to say nothing at all. Scummy? Not scummy? Thinking of voting him? Who knows?

Actually I was clarifying my initial position, where I found him to be pro-town. I believe the confusion over his role is a slight against him, and was scummy.

However overall I felt his play had been pro-town, but was now less confident about his alignment.

I guess that's "saying nothing". Also if I was thinking of voting him I'd have said so. I'd assume saying he's seemed reasonable would indicate that, but obviously I wasn't clear.

Overall I like your entry into the game, and you raise quite a few valid points. I'm not 100% sure who you're talking to in your point 4.

I find the FA/MM point to be a good one, I remembering noticing it the first time, but I didn't note the second one. I'll also agree it does look particularly like a pantomime.

[Faraday]

Gah! All these long posts.

I'll get to this tomorrow, this has been a busy weekend.

[Faraday]

I hate you all for your long posts

Well skimmed over them long posts, seriously headache worthy, with that amount in a row

But yeh, VP/Mastin exchange, I agree with some of what VP's saying, though I don't particularly know if they're all scum tells. The one Mstin scum game I've read, Lynch All Lurkers, Mastin seemed very hesitant to post.

Yes Mastin I'm using meta against you, or a limited meta , but it's based on the only time I've seen you as scum . However I don't get that impression here at all, and he seems...eager to fight off the case. Not a town tell , but still certaintly not scummy.
As for the claim, I believe it. Doesn't shed light on your alignment, as you said. However I find myself having no problem seeing you stay alive, as I do think you've got a good chance of being town.

As for that part of reason fgor suspecting KK, hmm, I guess I can see why might think that could a good reason, certaintly better than average.
However I find it quite unlikely he's going to claim miller because he's panicked and his kill failed. Doesn't seem very likely to me at all, seems more likely you rb'ed an actual miller.


My hayker vote seems to be doing nothing.
I'll have to re-read him, but since it doesn't seem a viable bandwagon it's not much use leaving my vote there.

MM wagon is not something I'd object to. I think I'd slightly prefer FA to get a dose of death, but am happy either way.

Either way this game is kinda dragging, sometimes you just have to say fuck it.

]b]Unvote Vote MafiaMann[/b]

[/mech]

[Faraday]

unvote vote mafiamann

[Faraday]

Ya active lurkan bro? @ Empking and mufasa.

[Faraday]

Sorry I've been busy, and haven't been online as much:(.

I want to get a bigger post up before long, hopefully by friday evening/saturday, tho' that leaves it kinda tight, though I'm working tomorrow and friday so

Anyway, a rofl wagon doesn't interest me at all. I mean sure, he's not posted a lot recently, but I don't find him particularly scummy. I'm aware of his playstyle, and don't really find it scummy in general, either. I think he could do with posting something do, as I'd like his opinions on the game, in general.

Mufasa seems to be playing similar as to how he was in the ongoing game me and him were both in (both dead, so I'm sure it's okay to mention it), he was fairly absent there in terms of content too, and provided little to no content, and was kinda useless.

[Faraday]

Ckool isn't that a slight contradiction?

[Faraday]

Ckool isn't that a slight contradiction?

Also gives him a lot of options.

And is not how I remember him either. In fact quite the opposite, in that he was, well too easy to write people off as town.

@ Ckool. You say you see everyone as scummy but me and Molest( ; ). And say you've learned your lesson with me. So then, if you think everyone is scummy, why am I not included. Surely the fact I fooled you before would lead you to be more wary of me,and not write me off as town.

Does that make sense?

[Faraday]

Yeah Faraday... But your posts in general seem so town, that it's hard to find you scummy... If that's not redundant..... I guess what it really is is that there's nothing in your posts that can be considered scummy, as far as I can tell.... Hmm.... Does that make you scummy?

Okay, but the same could be said for other people in the game.

And is not how I remember him either. In fact quite the opposite, in that he was, well too easy to write people off as town.

Was he town in that game(s)?

Yes, although he can correct me if I'm wrong it was his first mafia game?
Up untill that his play to me, looks fairly similar to that game. Generally being unsure of himself. Thinking the more he posts the stupier he gets things like that, his generaly play seems similar, but the "being suspicious of everyone thing" was odd, to me.

[Faraday]

Welcome Xyl.

Also the neighbor thing - as far as I'm aware, they don't know each others alignments, so even if we got the neighbor Mufasa was talking to, we couldn't guarantee that they were town, so there's no point to them claiming. Is that right?

Basically neighbours are masons w/ unconfirmed alignments.

A quick skim of zazie's posts reveals the following to me:

The her/KK arguments, her overstating his lies etc, means he's not scum w/ zazie.
LOTS of buddying w/ Mastin. It's fairly awful looking back.
I don't think Ckool is mafia with Zazie, she said he was town, but didn't seem too concerned about him getting lynched, perhaps wanting to make herself look good if he came up town? Also note it was her "gut" that told her ckool was town, this leaves loads of wiggle room to switch her opinions.
A few exchanges between Hayker/Zazie that looked like noise to me too. And Hayker is also scummy enough by himself. Possible partnership there.

I need to re-read the game in a bit I think, I'm fuzzy on a lot of the details.

[Faraday]

I don't think Ckool is mafia with Zazie, she said he was town, but didn't seem too concerned about him getting lynched, perhaps wanting to make herself look good if he came up town? Also note it was her "gut" that told her ckool was town, this leaves loads of wiggle room to switch her opinions.

I disagree with this. Often times scum would say they have a "gut" town read on their partners because they can't really be called for defending them outright. I don't get the first part of what you are saying at all, why would she be pushing for his lynch if she said she had a town read on him?

Neighbors are indeed unconfirmed masons. I'm currently weighing out the pros and cons of Mufasa's neighbor claiming.

I see no pros to Mufasa's neighbour claiming, at this point.

As for the other; I don't think she was pushing his lynch, I'm saying she didn't seem overly bothered by his lynch, and after professing a gut town read on him for a while, HOS'd him quite quickly afterwards. Seemed like she was willing to switch her opinion on him quite quickly, if a wagon formed on him.

[Faraday]

t;]

I don't think Ckool is mafia with Zazie, she said he was town, but didn't seem too concerned about him getting lynched, perhaps wanting to make herself look good if he came up town? Also note it was her "gut" that told her ckool was town, this leaves loads of wiggle room to switch her opinions.

interesting comment. I am not sure how you are making this judgment. There are thousands of possibilities as to why someone might do something. To right someone off just because of what you have stated thus far seems off.

Well yeh, there are loads of posibillites as to why someone would do anything. But I thought what I suggested was most likely, given the way it played out. I mean there are loads of posibillites as to why people do everything.

I'm not writing him off, just because of this either, I thought Ckool seemed town based on my previous experience of playing with him.

Also weekend, so I'll have little time to post.

[Faraday]

t;]

I don't think Ckool is mafia with Zazie, she said he was town, but didn't seem too concerned about him getting lynched, perhaps wanting to make herself look good if he came up town? Also note it was her "gut" that told her ckool was town, this leaves loads of wiggle room to switch her opinions.

interesting comment. I am not sure how you are making this judgment. There are thousands of possibilities as to why someone might do something. To right someone off just because of what you have stated thus far seems off.

Well yeh, there are loads of posibillites as to why someone would do anything. But I thought what I suggested was most likely, given the way it played out. I mean there are loads of posibillites as to why people do everything.

I'm not writing him off, just because of this either, I thought Ckool seemed town based on my previous experience of playing with him.

Also weekend, so I'll have little time to post.

what is this previous experience?

Played a newbie game with him, where he played pretty badly and was mislynched.
I've linked it in one of my posts since someone, zazie i think, asked about it.

[Faraday]

/unvote

I still suspect rofl, but it seems that many agree that rofl is playing to his meta. I will most likley make another atempt later in the day phase.

/vote:ckool

There have been several arguments made towards you ckool, answering some might give us a clearer read on you being scum or town. KK makes sense to me, we don't need to lynch you right now, just pressure you.

This is an awful vote. You don't even say you think he's scum, you just want him to "give you a clearer read". Also saying you don't intend to lynch him and it's just for pressure defeats the whole point of the vote
.

Vote Hayker

I'm really doubting that Empking's Alt is even reading this game.

Is he always like this?

CKool's claim of vig makes sense, and the "breadcrumb" of sorts in Xyl's 1247 seems to make sense.

I think the thought of auto-vigging two people who agree ot be auto-vigged is probably not in the best interest of the town, given the only people who agree ot that are likely to be town.

Eh I see what you're saying here, and I can see why but I dunno it's fairly WIFOMy no? Rolf looks fairly town to me and KMD has been pretty okay so far, so yeh I'm not sure if the plan is well, all that good.

I just now realized that I'm probably going to get killed without the help of a doctor...

Ummm....what? We don't even know if we have a TOWN doctor.

Wat. why is this relevant?

I must be scum in every game I have ever played before then. WIFOM can be used to catch scum just as much as it can be used to confuse town. Mafiascum generally doesn't like that idea though and twitches at anything that is remotely connected to WIFOM. I'll get away from theory discussion though. I'll rant about this in MD or something the next time it gets brought up there. No need for it here.

Also that. WIFOM can be useless, but not always.

I'm pretty much all caught up I think.

[Faraday]

Votes being used as pressure seems rather commen here. I don't see what's wrong with it. Not every vote needs to be merely to lynch someone, it limits your options too much.

If you

admit

that it's just a pressure vote and you don't really want to lynch then target, then it doesn't actually apply any pressure. Duh.

It might have in this case, due to the target being ckool, but yeh this is the point.

[Faraday]

Ouch, not a good day to be a citizen.(goes to check on who is still alive)

this went w/o saying but anyway.

As for people I'm suspicious of:
Achillies and Hayker would be top two atm.

Achillies has pretty much luirked his way through the last day phase and has failed to catch up, despite promises to the contrary. Hayker still seems likely to be scum to me.

For post 1258 mostly. It struck me a little weird that Mastin's defenses were so poor and scarce on Day 2. I know this is WIFOM, but surely his mafia teammates should have tried to come up with a strategy to make his RB claim more believable. One good explanation why they didn't would be to make themselves look town by being his biggest attacker.

Enter roflcopter. He was one of Mastin's biggest attackers. Plus his attempt to direct the vig-kill based on the guilt/innocence of his scum-mate Mastin accomplishes a lot of tasks: He looks town. He controls the vigilante (protecting himself). He eliminates a townie. Even if ckool5000 doesn't listen to him (or his vig got re-directed maybe?), he still ends up with the better part of the deal.

Blah this is a very flimsy reason to be suspecting rofl. Are you saying you think him/mastin are scum-buddies then? I find that fairly unlikely due to the way rofl has pretty much wanted mastin lynched from the get-go.

Rofl seems pretty town overall.

Need to read/re-read a few people in iso I think

[Faraday]

Nice activity

First off 3 men scum-teams seem likely to me, thus rofl as mastin's partner is something I'm in no way buying and any potential bussing would have to assume rofl is suicidal and pretty much ends his factions victory chances.

i suspect thats also why the obv vermillion nightkill hit ckool instead of hunting for opposing mafia. they need to save the opposing mafia now so they can look like they're honestly scumhunting in the day time.

I like this reasoning.

so basically one with 3 and one with 4. But who knows what the gm has in store for us really, this is all speculation. As of now, I think it unlikely for there to be a town bg.

Speculation, yes. Not useless though, as it's reasonable to assume a mafia with a doctor and rb'er wouldn't have 2 more members in a game this size with 2 scum factions.

Are uneven scum groups especially common? this seems a weird conclusion to jump to based on 1 vermillion flip.

I think the Ceruleans may have been planning to kill VP once Mastin was dead. Does anybody else think this?

I'm not sure what you mean here, we know this happened, so yeh I do think this.

This descision is based purely on gut. Rofl, you've convinced me to not be the best target for today, but don't think you're in the clear yet.

This rubs me the wrong way, not sure why but the 'warning' at the end is a bit odd.

Reasons I think roflcopter is town:
1) Defense of Kublai Khan
2) Attempts to get Mastin lynched
3) Attack on me (misguided)
4) Doing whatever it takes to kill scum

Reasons I'm not sure roflcopter is town:
1) Willingness to be vigged as a distraction

Re the reason you're not sure; he's getting shit now that he was right about mastin,, there's some weird potential bussing thing being mentioned that I find absurd, can you imagine what'd have happened if mastin hadn't been scum, he's probably right in that it would have taken up the whole day and led to a rofl lynch, so I can see why rofl town would see this as a good idea.

Vote Hayker

, I find him the scummiest of those posting, although would like achillies to post too. So second the prod request on him.

[Faraday]

i think i've been forgetting something. did mastin ever claim to have blocked vp baltar? i know baltar was part of that fantasy scumteam he was trying to pitch us. if he was blocked by mastin that explains why its been so hard to find evidence of investigation results in his posts.

mastin claimed to have blocked KK and Lowell I think.

[Faraday]

So wait, KMD, what happened between post 1435 and now to convince you rofl is probably town? Was it just the review of your case on rofl?

[Faraday]

I've little expierience in the matter of mutliple scum groups. It is merely speculation. To expand my thoughts, I think one coudl have 3 with the two power roles, and if the teams are uneven, 4 could be on the other team with less/different power roles.

Yeh I guess this would be possible, I've never seen that done before but that doesn't mean it's not possible. I was just curious as to how you could come to this conclusion based on the flips so far, or why it'd be the most logical conclusion.

The warning is saying that he is still triggering my scumdar, but is not going to be my target for now. I think there are people who have been flying under the radar too much. I realize I could put into that catagory, but my recent posting hopfully has altered that a bit.

Okay, but it just seems so unneccessary. Like you're giving for wanting to switch your vote on to him in the future.

What about Lowell? Anhy thoughts or comments on him?

I find it hard to read him as he doesn't seem to post a lot. I found his earlier posting after joining the game quite townie actually as his ideas were similar to a lot of mine.

VP attacked Mastin a lot, and therefore killing VP before Mastin's death would make Mastin look bad. That was just my opinion though. I could be wrong

Ohhhhhh. Okay that makes sense I guess, tho there's always WIFOM involved in Night kills, also there's a chance mastin thought he could wall his way out of suspicioun.

That is one of the main reasons why I voted MM too

. I think that Lowell might be a Vermillion. He has been acting strangely and wanted Mastin lynched.

Erm, well that's a blatant lie.

One of the reasons that I think my idea could make sense, is the fact that all games have mind games within them. Mafia is a particularily good example of a game where mind games come in all the time. In fact, mafia is one giant cluster**** of a mind game. Mind games can be done in many, many different ways. One particular mind game, is for a "good" player, doing a "bad" move. This often makes a once terrible move, into a glorious Solar idea(cookie for referance). I play witht the assumption that mind games will come into play from many different angles, because mind games tend toi be very effective. Well, if done correctly anyways. Some times they crash and burn, but hey, every mind game has a downside.

Wait...what? This doesn't seem remotely relevant.

You're correct, I wouldn't have voted for you before your vote, because you didnt stand out to me at the time. That doesn't mean I'm voting you in an OMGUS fashion, my reasons for voting you are my own, and will be revealed when the reason has been fufilled, which should be long before you are lynched(if you are even lynched)

Well it kinda does, no? You're voting him b/c he's voting you, that's OMGUS. I get that you say he has weak reasons or w/e but it's basically OMGUS. Plz don't start arguing OMGUS definitions though, it's fairly pointless. Your vote looks bad, Omgus or not.

Wicked trying to play himself off as voting mafiamann to avoid a no lynch is weird, since he clearly wasn't, as the vote-count showed. He's either forgetting or just making stuff up.

Hayker's reaction to molest( ) and his vote is really weird, and going on about mind games and all is weird and seems like he';s just babbling on.

The lack of support for lynching Wickedestjr makes me

What do you think of hayker? Sorry if you've already said.

[Faraday]

Unvote

I believe the mason claim. 2 pairs of unconfirmed neighbours + 2 masons aren't that impossible are they?

I think the posibility of mole lying is pretty much zero.

I also think lynching one of the claimed masons's today would be stupid.

[Faraday]

The scumtell you pointed us to says that people who focus on one group exclusively are likely to be scum.

You have made no secret that you are focusing on one group exclusively.

Why should I not think you scummy based on the tell you yourself are using?

The question here is, do you think rofl is cerulean scum just trying to focus on a vermillion lynch? If you do then this is valid, however since I think rofl being cerulean is ridiculous then this doesn't work.

Also I'd agree with the 4th neighbour claiming at the moment, it would confirm the 2 groups of neighbours theory.

WTF? I might believe his neighbor claim if a 4th neighbor came out of the woodworks, but to take it at face value? No way.

It seems a ridiculous gambit for scum-mole to make, and I see no reason for it, unless he's trying to get 1 confirmed mason lynched, but it just seems unlikely.

[Faraday]

The comment was meant to indicate that Zazie seems to be thinking similar to me on a number of issues, I believe if people are thinking similar to me, or asking similar questions then it makes them more likely to be town, as they're scumhunting.

Faraday, got anything to add to this now?

Erm, no?

I still think that's the case, usually, as it's been fairly reliable for me in the past, but obviously zazie wasn't town, so I was wrong.

[Faraday]

Unlikely? molestargazer did agree to the "Let's testlynch the masons" idea shortly after his claim.

Well this makes it more likely he's a neighbour who believes there aren't masons in the game then surely? I don't see how it's scummy when you're coming from his line of thought, I do think it's a bad idea to testlynch them though.

If he's faking he's scum so he's either:

1)Faking being a neighbour as scum- when no one claims as the other neighbour, and it appears/is shown no one is the other neighbour he's kinda screwed.

2)Or he's a scum neighbour who saw the opportunity to try and get masons lynched. But he'd have to assume, the town would be willing to lynch masons, which is possible.

Now 1 seems unlikely to me as it makes no sense to me as a gambit, so yeh I don't think he's lying about being a neighbour.

[Faraday]

v/la for next 2 days. sorry for short notice.

[Faraday]

back etc.

will read back.

[Faraday]

Hmm w/ 13 alive poe is probably as helpful as anything.

Rofl, the masons, Kublai are all obv town in my eyes. I think it's highly likely at this stage the 4th neighbour is a scum, due to the lack of a claim.

This leaves 8 people. (when I take myself out)

Spyrex's catching up post was fine to me. I don't see it as a tell either way, he eventually did post his thoughts on the current situation.

I find Xyl neutral-ish, but Fallen Angel was quite scummy as his predecessor. And was my second suspect for quite a while.
Nam hasn't really caught my attention with much of anything the whole game tbh.

I think both have a fairly good chance of being scum actually.

Mole's timing of the claim was fairly good, and he went about it in a 'townie' way I thought.

Need to read back over the last few pages a bit more, sorta skimmed them, but those are my general thoughts atm.

[Faraday]

Still reminding myself what happened yesterday.

I see molestargazer came up neighbor. This gives a pretty high probability that the last neighbor is scum. And there is no way you are going to convince me that this was not a breadcrumb.

vote: Lowell

I agree, with the fact that this breadcrumb makes Lowell very likely to be scum. Especially with the shooting of mole, who if he was a neighbour would maybe assume he was scum neighbour, I see no other reason to shoot mole if not for the chance of him being scum.

I think a Lowell claim is probably in order, as this breadcrumb + the hammer yday is quite damning.

The thing is if he's scum he's more than likely has to be cerulean (unless the kill was complete wifom, but cerulean are shooting for vermillion I would assume, anyway). But I think w/ 3/3 scumgroups we could be better getting rid of a scum-group now? ANyone with a better sense of large game balance know which is better?

As for a list:
Town:
The masons
KK

Leaning town:
SpyreX
CKD

Including myself that's 6 players.

I think our remaining scum are probably in Xyl, SC or KMD more by process of elimination than anything else.

CKD has seemed fairly solidly town throughout the game, and SpyreX has looked quite good since he's joined.

I don't see why anyone would be surprised that an obv town rofl died.

Xyl : Why are KMD and Spyrex more likely to be town than say, Kublai?

[Faraday]

The last neighbour being cerulean makes sense, imo due to the fact the ceruleans killed mole last night.

I don't see any other reason for them to hit mole over say, a mason if they're trying to hit someone they think is town. So obviously they were aiming for opposing scum? The only reason they'd target mole would be a mafia neighbour of their own surely?

Seems fairly sound logic to me.

[Faraday]

logic/reasoning meh you know what i mean :p

[Faraday]

Eh, Bullshit. Claim ASAP. Stop stalling.

[Faraday]

This makes no sense.

If you mean that it makes no sense as in 'your english is awful, i can't understand this' then I don't think I can make it any clearer.
If you mean it makes no sense as to how I'm coming to this conclusion, then well , no you're wrong, it does make sense from my point of view.

And well, I guess I'm willing to wait and hear what he has to say, not overly fussed either way.

[Faraday]

I don't really understand it either. I think that molestargazer was killed just because he was a threat.

Faraday, what makes you think that the scum neighbour would be more likely to kill molestargazer than anybody else?

I don't see Mole, the way he was playing, as any sort of viable threat to the scum to warrant a kill. And if he was shooting for opposing scum maybe he assumed that mole was one.

Wicked: What do you think about Lowells...unwillingness to claim at the moment? does it make him more likely to be scum.

As for the kills, well the only

odd

one there is Kise, for me. Which certaintly seems sub-optimal. Not sure what to make of it, but I don't think your theory is probably kinda weak.

[Faraday]

Just for reference because I know cheating is for quitters:


While playing, hit ENTER, then type in the code: HOW DO YOU TURN THIS ON


They have machine guns and move super fast. Didn't expect that, did ya Ghengis Khan.

Vote Lowell

; claim isn't gonna change my mind. He had his chance but stalled.

That's L-1.

[Faraday]

Well if you think he's a neighbour, Lowell that is, then he's clearly some form of scum, no? I mean what other reason was there not to come out when Mole claimed. And the thing w/ Mufasa's alt is far more likely to be an early neighbour breadcrumb than anything else.

So you don't think this makes him more likely to be scum than anyone else in the game? Which was the reason you switched your vote change. Or are you now saying you're more concenrned trying to find a specific scum group.

[Faraday]

Well if you think he's a neighbour, Lowell that is, then he's clearly some form of scum, no? I mean what other reason was there not to come out when Mole claimed. And the thing w/ Mufasa's alt is far more likely to be an early neighbour breadcrumb than anything else.

I'm very well aware of the case on Lowell. I'm the one who found the "breadcrumb" and started the wagon! Don't act like I don't understand my own case.

I quite obviously didn't/am not acting like that. I'm asking you a question. It's in the part of the post you didn't quote. Answer it.

[Faraday]

Probably should be question(s) even if they don't have question marks at the end, oopsie.

[Faraday]

Also, please add "bad logic" and "strawman" to the list of reasons I'm voting SerialClergyman. Although he and CKD are doing a damn good job convincing me they're both scum.

Faraday hasn't done anything to make himself scummier lately, though. Where is he?

what an odd way to phrase it. It's almost like I should have done something to make myself scummier. .

But yeh I haven't been around, it's pretty much site wide. College shit.

I'm still pretty damn certain Lowell is probably scum, and I don't really think there's much gonna change my mind, the breadcrumb seems way too damning.

[Faraday]

lowell is most probable scum**

[Faraday]

lowell is most probable scum**

Second & third most probable are?

I think one of you and Sc are scum. I don't think both of you are in the same scum group. It's possible you're both scum of different scum-groups, although I consider this less likely, as I think you were both voting for Mastin for a fair bit of the game, so I don't think you're probable cerulean. Sc is more possible for Cerulean, but he looks more likely to be vermillion mafia.

Then Lowell is more probable scum than either of you.

[Faraday]

Hmm that's a fair list of assumptions.

5 and 6 in particular don't seem to be very strong.

What about Xyl and Sc's interactions with Zazie means they can't be vermillion, or even SC's Mastin interactions. I agree Xyl doesn't seem very likely cerulean, but yeh.

While 7 and 8 are in fact both true, the reasoning of me accusing him of something seems kinda weak. It is possible to state you're suspicious of your buddies. Unless you're saying the way it was done makes it unlikely but even still.

[Faraday]

However of the main two (Xylthixlm & curiouskarmadog), I think curiouskarmadog is more likely to be Vermillion, so..

Vote: curiouskarmadog

Do you also think CKD is more likely to be any sort of scum, not specifically vermillion? I don't think either are actually particularly likely to be Cerulean, I need to re-read CKD's opinion of Mastin, but I'm pretty sure he was very pro-mastin lynch. Do need to check though.

Quick check: He didn't back off mastin veery quickly after the claim, untill Mufasa made himself look rather scummy. He was V/La for a lot of the day mastin was lynched but did manage to put a vote on Mastin, also pretty sure he wasn't on the mini Ckool wagon, so I don't think he's very likely Cerulean.

He's probably Vermillion if he's mafia, though I think he's looked quite town-y so far.

I'm still in favour of a Lowell lynch as he's by far my top choice.

What do you think of Lowell?

[Faraday]

My top choice is Lowell, then it'd be one of Sc or Xyl. Don't like a CKD lynch.

[Faraday]

3) faraday looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly deny it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

Well I think your reasoning for breadcrumbing would be b/c you are actually a neighbour. And denying it, well the reason seems obvious, with 3 dead town neighbours and 2 masons who are confirmed town, it seems very likely the last neighbour would be scum, and claiming it would make you more likely to be lynched.

That's basically why I think you'd be unwilling to claim neighbour.

[Faraday]

I think he's got a good chance for either, really.

We've yet to see a vermillion power role flip, so for that reason it's possible he's one of those. Vermillion neighbour + goon + ??? versus Roleblocker/Doc/??? , is that balanced if it's 3-man scum-teams a piece?

I did see the suggestion brought up by..Hayker? that it's possible Vermillion have 4 members, so I don't know how that'd fit in with that.

Basically not really sure which he is, I don't think it matters, as if he's cerulean we eliminate a night-kill which is good, and if he's vermillion well he's still mafia lynched.

[Faraday]

3) faraday looks bad. I like him earlier in the game, but his tunnel-vision is starting to drive me crazy. He's never explained why I would breadcrumb, then so flatly and repeatedly deny it. Further, I've never understood why being linked somehow to mufasa would make me scum, and it hasn't been explained, except hastily after the fact of the wagon surrounding me.

Well I think your reasoning for breadcrumbing would be b/c you are actually a neighbour. And denying it, well the reason seems obvious, with 3 dead town neighbours and 2 masons who are confirmed town, it seems very likely the last neighbour would be scum, and claiming it would make you more likely to be lynched.

That's basically why I think you'd be unwilling to claim neighbour.

It's shocking how little sense this makes.

So, to clarify, my thought process is this?
1) aha, I'm scum, but I'll claim mason, so that when other masons are confirmed town, I'll look town!
2) time to breadcrumb!
2) oh no! Other masons have died and been confirmed town! ABORT ABORT!

@KK- hayker isn't trying, faraday's tunnelling, and ckd and SC think with one brain. That's probably why the case on me seems contrived.

unvote, vote SC

. For some reason this one is more popular than ckd. They're basically the same person so that's fine.

Well your 1) is wrong as you didn't know there were masons in the game, so yes, pretty much exactly what you said here, with the change that the you find out about the other masons claim and then ABORT ABORT.

Makes perfect sense, really.

[Faraday]

I don't see myself moving from a Lowell lynch between now and deadline. There's plenty of room here, let's try and lynch the scum today plz.

Also Xyl who haven't I taken a position on? I'm curious.

I think KK and the masons are obv town.

SpyreX looks pretty damn town too.

I think the remaining scum are in Lowell, SC, Xyl and KMD.

Lowell is still far and away my top suspect.

[Faraday]

Wicked's vote seems to be parked on KMD, and he's gone V/La, this makes it more difficult since we need a full majority for deadline. Also we've only got around 2 days left to come to a consensus.

Well I'm not sure what to make of Xyl's vote change. Slightly unexpected. Seems like a more townie thing to do at this stage of the game, I think, rather than push through a lynch.

I still think Lowell is most likely to be scum, but I think I probably need to read through KMD, who I've been kind of forgetting and had scum by POE, and CKD who I've thought was quite town just to make sure.

Also I'm perfectly sane, most of the time.

[Faraday]

Hmm never mind, it appears Wicked could be back before deadline, depending on when he actually left. He posted he was gone for a week last Friday, so he might be back.

[Faraday]

@ Spyrex, it's pretty much gut relating to CKD.

@ Sc I think lynching Vermillion is better today. On the off chance we have 3 of them it's far better but even with only 2 it's still not bad, as there's the chance of mafia cross killing each other. But the preference isn't the thing making me vote, I'm voting for the person more likely to be scum, atm, which is Lowell.

Unoffical vote count atm is:

Lowell (4) - SerialClergyman, Faraday, Hayker, curiouskarmadog
curiouskarmadog (4) - Kublai Khan, Xylthixlm, Lowell , SpyreX
SerialClergyman (1) - Kmd4390
Kmd4390 (1) - Wickedestjr

We can't count on wicked switching as he's AWOL (V/La)

[Faraday]

Well fucking ninja'd quite badly then.

[Faraday]

Okay let's just get on with it.

I'm vanilla,

I have nothing to do with mufasa. My comment was a joke regarding my (and his) non-explanatory vote posts.

I feel like I have two kinds of games: those I have a handle on (and am active) and those I don't (and tend to lurk). I doubt it's much of a scum/towntell either way, but I can see why the latter looks scummier.

Still, with 78 pages it's a bit depressing that this is what we're looking at to lynch folks. I'll post some thoughts in the next few minutes if I can hold internet connection for that long, otherwise I'll be back Sunday to answer whatever needs answering.

@ KMD

[Faraday]

Ckd is claiming an every second night hider? Who's only hid once? That's not a claim I was expecting. The plan sounds okay though. Although it doesn't really prove anything if he's scum fake claiming. Still going with my town read on him, and saying I'm more content with a Lowell lynch than ever.
I think the plan that spy has lined up:
[quote=SpyreX's plan]If the masons are pulling a gambit this means that CKD-scum, unless the numbers are way off, is not scum with them so his "hide" behind them would be a death.

If CKD is town this is forcing the scum to pull a move they didn't want to do yet in trying to hit masons at this point. Especially when its so choreographed investigative AND protective roles that exist will be all over them. [/quote]
Is correct, although I don't find it especially likely the masons are pulling a gambit. Their play has been kinda weird, but I get the legit feeling from them and have them obv town.

Also deadline is looming pretty quickly. Lowell is at L-1 atm ftr.

[Faraday]

Bah fucking tags, intention is clear though.

[Faraday]

I think the lynching was better than the nl, it's always possible Lowell would have hit town anyway, instead of opposing scum.

Happy to lynch scum.

[Faraday]

BTW In Twillight Faraday said he was scum. Just member that.

lolwut?

[Faraday]

BTW In Twillight Faraday said he was scum. Just member that.

I've been saying he was scum all day.

(I thought you meant Twilight mafia the first time I read this hence the confusion )

[Faraday]

I'm here. My internet at home is gone and my phone is a piece of shit.

I'm at an internet cafe atm. Gonna read back and stuff.

As for thoughts mass claim seems like a good idea

[Faraday]

Not really fussed about mass claim. I see no real benefits/drawbacks of doing it a today, but then we won't know untill we start. So yeh, why not. Agreed.

Could we get more info on your role and choices, CKD? Unless you think it would hurt the town?

I want this. Now. The potential benefits outweigh any negatives.

Ok - so my case on Faraday. Mostly - he's been useless. He's had no real scumhunting all game. Perhaps his biggest case ever was on Hayker, who he then promptyl unvoted at the mason claim and then left himself unvoted ALL THROUGH THE DAY while everyone else were focusing on Xyl or Namttam. Given I now think both of them are town, it looks to me like he was just calmly avoiding the wagon on what he knew was likely to be town.

Why would I as scum not want to pick a side here?

If someone could point to a gutsy, good bit of scumhunting from him I'd be greatly surprised.

Gutsy bit of scum-hunting? What does that mean?

Yesterday he was on the Lowell wagon and did essentially what Xyl was suspecting me and CKD of doing. But at least I and to some extend CKD tried to demonstrate why I thought Lowell was scummy, look for additional evidence, construct scumteams and the like, Faraday just sat there and let the vote sit on Lowell (and everyone else's vote sit on me).

I said exactly why I thought Lowell was scummy. I thought he breadcrumbed neighbour and then went back on it due to looking bad. I don't see what's so hard to see there. Scum-teams are better looked at when we have the flip so yeh, I was slightly lazy and didn't look for scum-teams with Lowell I don't see how that's scummy.

Then I started looking back through his history and found a few suspicious posts. Note - this essentially assumes KK is town, so adjust suspicion accordingly.

That's a subtle way of encouraging a vig, isn't it?

You're reaaaaaching so badly. It's clearly not encouraging the vig, more-so saying why it's a not a good idea for scum to claim miller.

Eh you're going to have to explain to me how that's a scumslip Zazie.

Looks like teeing up a scummate to me. Very easy way of getting her more air time for her theory.

I didn't see what she was talking about and asked for clarification. I then disagreed. So asking for clarification, or questioning someone on something is 'teeing them up'.

Ugh zazie seems to be asking some of the questions I'm asking, that's good in one way, in that it makes me feel better about her, but bad in a I want to ask them first way Yeh don't worry I'll not pout.

I thought she was town, yes. I was wrong.

And as for KK, I don't like his confusion over his role at all. I think it's much more damning than any slip, btw. Surely if you're a miller you know you're a miller and not a death miller. Like, and if it wasn't clear from the role pm you pm the mod, or well I would Idk I've never been a miller.

Ok, so one post lending support to Zazie and then one soon after agreeing with the case on KK. This is making KK vigbait I think.

How does it make KK vig-bait. I didn't like his confusion over his role and said so. I still felt he was probably town and didn't support his lynch, which was what was in question at the time.

This is awful.
First directing the vig, I'm sure if we have a vig they can use their own discretion.

Hypocrasy, not to mention encouraging the vig in his own way I think.

Wait what? I've already pointed out how I'm not being hypocritical. And I'm telling people to stop encouraging the vig. How is that encouraging the vig? Really?

Yeh, this newbie game is where Ckool was town and was an easy mis-lynch.

I was scum in that game too.

Just read day 1 and it should give you an idea what he's talking about. But basically he seemed to put his fut in his mouth a few times, and was over eager and ended up looking pretty damn scummy.

Possible slip???

What? I was referring to my alignment as a side note, in regards to Ckool. Don't see what you're talking about.

578 and 589 he starts to switch his view on the miller. It's all this sort of cautious dialog with Zazie and I'm not sure it's legit.

Erm the view is pretty much expressed in one of my earlier posts. I didn't like his confusion over his role pm, but in the end thought he was scum-hunting and likely town. Also is changing your view on something scummy? In general I mean.

589 is me saying that's obviously not a lie. It's suspicious but not a lie. Once again not a change of stance. You've just shown I remainined pretty consistent here actually. I don't really see the relevance.

Far more work done to discredit a few minor constructions done than he ever did to scumhunt. It's just more work derailing working theories without providing any real alternatives or fire or belief.

Shutting down crazy theories, or bad ones is good though.

So that's my case. I think Faraday is Vermillon scum. If I had to pick a scumpartner, I'd say KMD for the pattern of behaviour. The fact that they were both so quiet yesterday (and while V/LA for some of it, KMD certainly wasn't for all of it) and both were voting different people quietly yet both ended up on the same wagon to lynch a townie makes me suspicious of the pair, but Lowell should be the first lynch imo.

We;ve already lynched Lowell

I don't see where your getting all of this. You seem to be over-reaching and interperating my posts in a very weird manner, i.e. me encouraging vig speculation when it's pretty clear I wasn't.

I don't think CKD is a hider. The claim is so fucking dodgy. I thought he was town before, but it just seems such a fake claim. He picked an obv town target to claim to have hid behind so yeh, and he hasn't been using his role, when he could be confirming people with it.

As for my suspects I'd have them somewhere like this:

Sc/CKD would be my top 2 lynches for today.

Sc apparently seemed townie enough to get people to back off yesterday but yeh, he seems to be deliberately finding ways to see my posts in a negative light.

KMD's hammer when discussion was going on is slightly weird, but obviously he thought Lowell was scum. He also lurked through yday, but he was V/La so I guess that partly explains that.

Xyl I'm actually pretty unsure of atm. I don't see him in a scum-team with Sc, or even indeed CKD, but it's possible they're opposing scum groups.

Wicked and KK are town.

Spyrex is probably town. His play here seems similar-ish to WOT from my recollection.

SpyreX has claimed, so do we continue in a popcorn method or ..what?
Never mind.

Idk when I'll post again, hopefully eircom fix my net soon. So yeh, I'll post semi-regularly for the next week if possible. Should be back by then.

See ya guys tomorrow *hopefully*

[Faraday]

vanilla townie.

who's left to claim?

Xyl? Is that it. He can go next if so

still no net :/ so yeh.

[Faraday]

Holy hell wasn't expecting this to be over.

Erm obv I have no problems about the qt,

I'm really, really surprised I wasn't lynched. I don't think I was even voted untill the final day, but yeh.

*goes off to read green room*

My most fun game here by far, btw. Great scum-team and great players all round, and I think I'd play with everyone again

[Faraday]

Reading over the graveyard I'm surprised more people didn't see me as scum.

I mean I really didn't do that much, and my voting record was horrendous. But yeh, I also think I played very differently than WOT and Twilight :/
I also thought I slipped the day before, when I assumed Lowell was a Cerulean neighbour for no apparent reason.

Very fun game Iam.

[Faraday]

I thought CKD was town up untill his claim >__>