Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[ZazieR]

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game. Scumtell? Possibly.

Why?

[ZazieR]

I asked basically the same thing. It's vital for Kise to answer the question. Ask rofl on the subject of:
Softclaims.
Or take a look at Lynch all Lurkers.

woah there. do not try to involve me in your rolefishing.

softlclaims brought on by pressure = scummy = need a fullclaim

possible breadcrumb = SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY = DO NOT FULLCLAIM OR CONFIRM OR DENY A KILLING ROLE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ROLE SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT

mastin's attempt to 1) pull a fullclaim out and 2) attach my name to drawing out said fullclaim is scummy in the extreme

Ok, I don''t understand this
Rofl, can you please explain it again?

[ZazieR]

You know, I am just going to be 100% honest with how I feel right now....

I don't know if Mastin is scum or not. What I do know is, his style of play last night was un-constructive (to say the least) and downright distracting.

That being said, it may be in the best interest of the town to vote Mastin out, whether he be scum OR town. If he flips scum, we score. If he flips town, then we lose a townie, but we also lose a HUGE distraction.

I will reserve my vote for the moment, to see how others feel about my opinion.

(why do I have the feeling I am about to be shit upon?)

Join the Mudkip LURVERS, just like me, and say no to policy lynches!

[ZazieR]

EBWOP:
This part is definitly scummy:

I will reserve my vote for the moment, to see how others feel about my opinion.

[ZazieR]

Do you actually think that Khan would have roleclaimed if this were the case? Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. I am willing to believe Khan for now, unless he does something scummy. Although I believe his claim, I would hesitate to vote him for doing something scummy just because he RC'd miller. I am going to pretend he is just an ordinary player, to make it fair for everybody.

Wait. Why''d you treat somebody as an ordinary player when you think he''s town? Explanation much wanted.

[ZazieR]

Ok, I hadn''t seen yet that MM didn''t throw any opinions in.
Do you have anything to add?

(Happy scumday btw )

[iamausername]

-=Vote Count #2=-

Mastin (3) - Kublai Khan, roflcopter, Empking's Alt
Hayker (2) - Faraday, Namttam
Johnny Rotten (1) - Kise
Kise (1) - fallen angel
Kublai Khan (1) - ZazieR

Not Voting (13) - Achilles, BloodCovenent, cateraction, ckool5000, dvdkid13, Hayker, Johnny Rotten, MafiaMann, Mastin, Mufasa, Redith, reveillark, Wickedestjr

11 to lynch.

[ZazieR]

He's scummy because of saying the RVS was over, when it clearly wasn't to the majority of the players.

Nah, Rofl just got the memo first that the RVS was over, as the mod always sends a PM first to the scum, and afterwards to the townies. Which means Rofl claimed scum, and Hayker is town. Let''s lynch ahead[/sarcasm]

My opinion is that there''s no general borderline of the RVS. And I see no reason why this should be scummy.

[ZazieR]

ZazieR- I only know Mastin's meta, that's why I didn't have any other peoples meta in my argument. Will metagame later if time permits.

I assume you meant to aim this at Faraday?

[ZazieR]

i'm getting the feeling that people are posting without having actually read the entire thread. for reference, this post is very important, and if you are still discussing kublai khan right now i would like you to read it and then explain why you think its still in the town's best interest to spend time and energy debating the miller claim.

and hi zazie!

Hi Rofl
I agree that we shouldn''t spend time towards his claim, but in no way is he cleared. So if he acts scummy, I''ll try to get him lynched.

[ZazieR]

@ZazieR: Regular miller as far as I know.
@ZazieR: Your observation that my serious vote sits wrong with you without explaining why is sitting wrong with me, but I can't explain why.

As far as you know?! You claimed miller, shouldn''t you know if you''re a death miller or not in such situation?
And are you serious with the second point, or not?

[ckool5000]

Wow ZazieR, if you don't count the vote count post by the mod, you've just posted 12 times in a row! Is that a record?

[ZazieR]

Wow ZazieR, if you don't count the vote count post by the mod, you've just posted 12 times in a row! Is that a record?

I might have done worse than this XD
But that''s most likely in an ongoing game with almost 50 pages, so I''m not gonna check >.<

[ZazieR]

I'm having trouble believing that a mafia would kill Konowa.

Konowa, when he/she signed up for this game, hadn't played a single game of mafia yet! He/she signed up for one, but never actually played one. Would a newbie's likeliness to be lynched make the mafia want to kill them?... Probably not.

Does this make MafiaMann innocent?... I have no idea.

It''s actually possible, as a new player is less likely to be expected and can confuse town a lot.
However, I''m not a fan of looking into who killed who as each player think differently. I''ve learned this the hard way once >.<

[ZazieR]

Ok i understand now.

Assuming we have multiple factions though should that change how we scum hunt?

Nope, why should we?

[ckool5000]

I'm having trouble believing that a mafia would kill Konowa.

Konowa, when he/she signed up for this game, hadn't played a single game of mafia yet! He/she signed up for one, but never actually played one. Would a newbie's likeliness to be lynched make the mafia want to kill them?... Probably not.

Does this make MafiaMann innocent?... I have no idea.

It''s actually possible, as a new player is less likely to be expected and can confuse town a lot.
However, I''m not a fan of looking into who killed who as each player think differently. I''ve learned this the hard way once >.<

Yes, but for night 0, it's always a good idea for scum to keep a lynchalious (to quote a certain dgb) newbie alive... But of course, that leads to WIFOM, because the newbie could be the scum... Which they were in this case...

I think MafiaMann gets my point, and that's all I wanted to do with the whole talking about night 0... So I won't talk about it anymore...

[ZazieR]

@MafiaMann (116): Mastin listed you as a member of Mafia A and you weren't sure if he was completely joking? I took Mastin's opening post as a joke calling out and ribbing people he had a history and was familiar with. The fact that you aren't someone Mastin knows is now making me say hmmm.

Interesting catch.

@ckool5000 (117): How do you know a mafioso did it? Are you lamenting the loss of Konowa?

Why aren't you rejoicing that we have a lucky vig?

Tah scumslip. Lynch ahead.

[Faraday]

Eh you're going to have to explain to me how that's a scumslip Zazie.

[ZazieR]

Because in the quote, especially the bolded, he shows that he knows it wasn''t the other scumteam. And that''s only possible if you''re part of it.
Therefore, scumslip.

[Mastin]

The RVS didn't even seem over at that point, yet you just claimed it was.

To be fair, in any game I am in, the RVS will last only a maximum of three pages.

claiming miller as scum on day one is a gambit that may work on occasion

Yet it works perfectly when people react the way you do to it and consider them instantly clear for it. A miller claim will almost never be a mafia night-kill unless said miller appears incredibly pro-town. So by claiming miller--an excuse to dismiss any cop reports--when it makes people think you're pro-town, is the perfect excuse for mafia, as they know a miller would almost never be night-killed.

Which is why I will keep an eye on Khan.

but more often backfires horribly.

When they fail to get lynched (a success), I fail to see how it backfires (them getting killed).

1) you are locked into that claim.

So?
Scum who don't lock into a claim plan from the beginning are going to end up dead. Any good scum will have planned out their claim from the second they were handed out their role.
Immediately claiming is more so, but still, good scum will have a claim planned out, locked into their head with no chance of changing, whether they end up needing it or not.

as scum, this means you will not have the option of doing any of the following things:

Perhaps.

counterclaiming a power role in lylo

In a game like this (see: Konowa's specific type of mafia flip, three deaths total), do you honestly think that this would happen, anyway? And when there is no guarantee there aren't multiple power roles (this isn't a semi-open or open setup), would a counter-claim truly be a counter-claim?
And also, see below answer.

fakeclaiming an investigative/protective role with a false guilty/protect

That's what the partners of the miller claim are for.

adapting to a changing game environment such as discovering that the setup may be all vanilla, etc.

We already KNOW the setup isn't vanilla.
An Emerald Jailer and a Mafia Doctor are both dead.

Got another example that fits this?
(Also, again, that's what partners are for--bussing a bad claim such as that if it turns out to be true.)

there are many ways for you to find yourself in a situation several game days later where you are simply fucked because you locked yourself out of the right strategic move as scum.

If he lived that long. The move he made might have simple been to rolefish, like I pointed out as a joke at the time.

no matter how your claim plays out, there is just no freaking way you're living to endgame.

As scum, if I have a claim that will buy me even a day of life...that's still a day of life that I would not have had before.
And, yea, partners are made for situations like that.

one of two things will happen

False dilemma. Anything could happen to the miller claim.

a vigilante will either not believe you or have no better idea who to shoot and will take the safest vigilante shot in the history of the game of mafia

Possible, but the vig will likely have suspects of their own, and if a doctor--for example--protects the mafia miller claim, the shot fails to go through.

or an opposing scumteam/sk will come to the point where they need to start killing semi-cleared players because cleared players are the scum's SINGLE WORST NIGHTMARE and they will end up killing you.

Again, we have a known (mafia) doctor flip. What's to say there isn't another one?

As a semi-cleared player, they're likely to get protected.

Perfect for scum.

therefore we are never, ever lynching kublai khan

We shall see. It depends on his play.

and it doesn't even matter if i'm right and he's in fact town or i'm wrong and he's fakeclaiming scum

Uh, yes. Yes, it does. It makes a difference between winning the game as a pro-town player, or losing the game as a pro-town player (or winning the game as scum, mind you). It makes a huge difference.

because the problem will work itself out long before the endgame.

It's not like I'm advocating for his lynch. I'm stating how I will keep my eye on him, and how he's a suspect of mine.

continuing to waste time discussing whether or not you believe khan's claim

Discussing a claim is NEVER a waste of time.
Know what it is?
Scum hunting.

or especially considering him as a lynch candidate

Nobody should ever eliminate a player as a lynch candidate unless there is STRONG evidence to suggest they are completely cleared. It is incredibly scummy to do so.
Lynch candidate for today?
That, I can understand, even if I disagree with it.

A vote on me for my short post earlier?

Apparently. Simple solution:
Contribute more.

My goodness that is weak sauce dude.

As I noted, it is not the best reasoning in the world.

Glad I am not alone in this being my first Large Game.

Fresh players come along all the time and get slammed into Large Games. Not exactly the best place to start one's mafia career, especially if the name "Mastin" is listed amongst the player list.

Combine that with Mastin apparently being a mind-fuck specialist

Not my fault. Okay, it might be, but this is my posting style.

I really didn't have too much to say at the time.

And that's what's scummy about it:

We have three pages, already. Lots of long posts. There should be SOMETHING to comment on.

Not too sure what to make of Mastin yet

I love long posts, and I am almost always town. Do you really need anything else?

as this is my first game with him.

Hopefully not your last, either. (I have had that impact on some players)

I am nowhere near ready to vote at this point.

And if you had to, where would that vote go at this moment?

Too many people haven't even been online yet.

This, I agree with. We need more contributors. They'll fall behind if they don't log in within the next few hours.
Scratch that--they're already behind.

I do find it quite interesting that some people feel the need to vote at this stage of the game.

It's called scum hunting. People vote for their suspicions, if they view those suspicions great enough to warrant a vote?

Scumtell?

More of a null to town tell, depending on who you ask.

Possibly.

Not to most.

I don't believe voting at this stage is a scum tell John.

And most agree with you. I imagine some disagree, but not many will. Whether it's a null tell or a town tell, now, THERE you will find some disagreement.

Especially because this is a hard game with the current majority being 12.

Players?
We've had less than that?
Needed to lynch?
That's 11.

What were you saying?

woah there. do not try to involve me in your rolefishing.

From what I had read of Lynch all Lurkers, Tajo softclaimed and was forced to hardclaim in the future.

I saw, and Khan saw, a potential softclaim. Your policy in that game was to force a hard claim from the soft claim.

I fail to see how the two are really different.

softlclaims brought on by pressure = scummy = need a fullclaim

Minus the 'brought on by pressure' part, this is what I believed you to have thought. Nowhere did I see you mention that a softclaim brought on by pressure was scummy--I DID, however, see you mention that the softclaim was scummy and needed a full claim (which turned out to be correct).

possible breadcrumb = SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN MENTIONED SPECIFICALLY = DO NOT FULLCLAIM OR CONFIRM OR DENY A KILLING ROLE OR ANY OTHER KIND OF ROLE SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT

The thing is, it didn't look like a possible breadcrumb.
It looked like a soft claim.

Where do you draw the boundary between breadcrumbing and soft claiming?

Kise definitely crossed over to the latter, in my mind.

mastin's attempt to

Not just me, either. Khan, your "clear", asked for the same thing.

What makes him excluded yet me included?

pull a fullclaim out

My wording was, originally, essentially,

"Please...tell me that I didn't hear you say what I thought I heard you just say...could you clarify?",

meaning I wanted to see if that was what I thought it was (a soft claim), or if I were mistaken.

attach my name to drawing out said fullclaim

I'd do the same to elvis if she were alive. Or Xyl if he were in the game. Or Tajo. Or pretty much anyone who stated their opinion on soft claiming being scummy and needing a full claim.

earlier in this very post you made reference to lynch all lurkers mafia

So?

and appealed to me as an authority

I've always said the same basic stuff. "ask Alduskkel about it."
"ekiM can confirm it."
"AceMarksman should back the story up." (How much do you want to bet at least one of them will search their name and find it referenced in here? )
Yadda, yadda, you get the idea.

Basically, I like to back up my points. Other people confirming it is perhaps the greatest evidence I can give.

Do you really have an issue with that?

in making a (ill-conceived) point.

I've explained this already.

but now your memory seems to very selective

1: Face it: I've got a bad memory, so if it were true that my memory wasn't telling even half the story, it wouldn't be a scum tell.
and
2: As I am about to explain, this is not the case and my memory is in no way selective.

as you are failing to take into account the same game, lynch all lurkers, where i did the exact same thing, as town, to zwetschenwasser, who flipped scum, starting on page 2.

So?
You hit scum once.
Big f-ing deal.

How many other people did you target in that game?
I imagine rather some number.
They weren't all scum, were they?
You still tunneled.
Tunneling IS anti-town. It can catch mafia and sometimes does, but when you tunnel on a townie, it only hurts the town, and this happens far more often than it does not.

so yes, i do in fact deny that it is not pro-town

Tunnel Vision is listed as being a Logical Fallacy, and the second paragraph lists how it is Anti-town in nature.

Khan brought out the fact that he was tunneled on by a townie in another game (he brought this up in 742, mind you, where I had a guilty on him--I must admit, I flat-out ignored the link. *shrug*), and both were left alive until Lylo, where the scum hammered him for a win, for example. Tunneling then was anti-town. And it is anti-town now.

and counter with the above evidence. check.

Okay, I will. I've still got the Lynch all Lurkers tab open. I'll look at your posts in isolation--let's see how many people you tunneled on.
And how many of them were scum.
You also said that you were thinking a Zwet-Elvis team (saying you were paranoid about it) the very next post after you said Zwet-Tajo. In fact, you had expanded your suspects here.
Tunneled on scum: 1-2,
Tunneled on town: 0-2 (depending on the interpretation of thinking one of the three listed is scum)

Posts later (around Here), you’ve tunneled on two more players, and think a third is likely scum.
Tunneled on scum: 2
Tunneled on town: 1-2

Of the ones listed here as your scum-team, which evidence supports you were tunneling on, only one was actually scum.

You continue calling Brian, DGB, and Xtoxm scum with Tajo, similar to what you have done this game with me and FA—let’s see how long it takes you to add another two or three names to that list.

At this point, you’ve tunneled on,
Zwet (scum), Tajo (scum), Xtoxm (town), DGB (town), and Brian (town)—
2 scum,
3 town.

Your post here again only has one actual scum in it. And yet you focused on those players a great deal, did you not?

By your defense, at least half of them should be scum, if I read your argument correctly.
They weren’t. You tunneled on mostly pro-town players. And helped get them lynched. You drove their lynches, really. So how is that not anti-town, to get three pro-town players lynched?

Statements like this

i think dgb is at least 95% likely to be scum at this point.

Showing a refusal to listen to others are what’s so anti-town about tunneling.

which you should also have been intimately aware of since you were reading the game as a replacement onto the scumteam.

I read part of the game. Not all of it. I didn't even remember Zorblag or SpyreX (and to a lesser extent, Xtoxm and DGB) were players, yet alone, what was said. Only some comments which were brought up at the end of the game that were said earlier stuck in my mind. Like, oh, the people stating that the soft claim was scummy, for example.

so that just makes you attempting to brush off a similar statement from me regarding a mastin-fallen angel pairing seem even more hollow.

This is a blatant 7-for-7 fallacy.

You were right once.
Big deal.
You're not Mr. Perfect. You're not going to be right every time.

Rofl, to be fair, your attitude is not one which I think is scummy. Your playstyle is annoying, to say the least, and you tunnel and refuse to give up, no matter how well your target defends themselves. It can work (which is why whenever it does, you gain rather the ego, in my opinion) well sometimes, but it is far from 100%. Or 50%, for that matter.

---

Okay, this was typed last night when I had an internet failure, with minor revisements when I had my internet back in the morning. Posting it now; I’ll catch up with the rest of the posts soon after.

[dvdkid13]

well seems you guys have been quite active. sorry i havent checked yet i was at a tennis thingy. anyway i'll read and then comment

[MafiaMann]

@Empking's Alt (112): Oh, okay.

@MafiaMann (116): Mastin listed you as a member of Mafia A and you weren't sure if he was completely joking? I took Mastin's opening post as a joke calling out and ribbing people he had a history and was familiar with. The fact that you aren't someone Mastin knows is now making me say hmmm.

Also: You're making some pretty reaching arguments which seem to betray a deeper knowledge of the game and it's setup than I've got. All I know is that there are 3 kills. Since the flavor is pretty minimal, the fact that the Cerulean Mafia has a name would strongly indicate that there are at least 2 mafia groups. The third kill could be a serial killer, a vigilante, or a third mafia group. The listed causes of death (Slaughtered/Murdered/Annihilated) give us no hints as to which group did what.

These are the bare basic facts. Your wild speculation about multiple mafia doctors is unhelpful and has been noted.

1 Im not saying its all true by any means but there maybe some truth in that statement. It shouldnt be disregarded and ignored because it was mastin who said it. Im tired of everything is just mastin being mastin.

2 Im not making reaching arguments i havent even really made many argument please quote what you are referring to because all i said was wouldnt make sense for the mafias to be symmetrical.

[MafiaMann]

Ok, I hadn''t seen yet that MM didn''t throw any opinions in.
Do you have anything to add?

(Happy scumday btw )

I think mastins not being completely clear in everything he says. His use of sarcasm is confusing and breeds WIFOM arguments. I dont know if its scummy or the way he plays but definitely is not helpful when he isnt straight forward with the town.

[MafiaMann]

Ok i understand now.

Assuming we have multiple factions though should that change how we scum hunt?

Nope, why should we?

Ive never been involved in game where we might possibly have two factions ( which i still strongly believe is the case) and i didnt know if there was somthing else to be looking for.

[Mastin]

Vote: Mastin

This has to be Empking's policy day one vote, or something. <_<

For unvoting her ranom vote.

...
I'm a guy. <_<

You know, I am just going to be 100% honest with how I feel right now....

That's good. Honesty-->Towntell.

I don't know if Mastin is scum or not.

Best to assume I'm not. Because, well, I rarely am scum.

What I do know is, his style of play last night was un-constructive (to say the least) and downright distracting.

I got us out of the RCV.
Explain to me how that's unconstructive.
I've got us talking.
Discussing.
Debating.
Scum hunting.

How's that not constructive?

That being said

Unnecessarily, I might add.

it may be in the best interest of the town to vote Mastin out

Red flags have officially been raised over this comment.

whether he be scum OR town.

The goal of the town is to lynch scum.

The goal of scum is to lynch anyone but their own scum.

Policy lynches are exactly that--lynches not of their own.
Which is precisely what you are suggesting.

Yea, anyone got a tall flagpole? Definitely a huge red flag raised here.

If he flips scum,

I won't.

we score.

Again, you might as well suggest a policy lynch of Empking, Zwetschenwasser, or other players with similar playstyles.

It's similar to this policy:

"either he's scum and yay 1 less scum, or he's town and yay 1 less zwetschenwasser. " ~Moratorium
Words to live by.

If he flips town

Like I will...

then we lose a townie

1: Rolefishing for my role (you say "townie". "Townie" is a role.),

2: It is almost NEVER a good idea to lynch a pro-town player. ESPECIALLY off of Policy. It is FAR better to lynch scum, and to actually SCUM HUNT instead of a Policy Lynch.

but we also lose a HUGE distraction.

My "distraction" only lasts until the RVS is over. Then I start scum hunting.

I will reserve my vote for the moment

Scummy, considering how you've expressed a willingness to vote for me.

to see how others feel about my opinion.

Why would others' have such an impact on your opinion?
If the majority of the town would think so, sure, they can't all be scum--but any less than that, and the scum may or may not be influencing that opinion.
Are you going to wait that long?

Or are you going to wait for just a few to weigh in?

How about this option C: You want the advice of your scum buddies on whether to vote for me or not.

(why do I have the feeling I am about to be shit upon?)

Because you just made so many scummy comments, it's not even funny.

Johnny with this post single-handedly steals away my vote for such a scummy post.

Mastin Votes: Johnny

.

I am a bit surprised by how frequent and how long Mastin's posts are

Eh, I get that a lot. You'll get used to 'em eventually.

but if he has a habit of doing this early in games

Yea, I was nominated for the title of "Unabridged" for a reason.

then I'm not sure what to make of it.

Nothing special. Treat my posts no differently than those of any other player.

It is distracting in a way

Yet it works brilliantly in the long run for discussion, especially since it only lasts for the RVS before I start getting serious.

but at the same time, it generates conversation

I like this guy. He makes good observations.

and the more talk there is, the more likely chance there is for scum to slip up.

And there we have the quoted for truth opinion of the day--this guy's good.

He does it all the time

Heh. I figured there was a reason there were seven pages when there were only three before--you came online, Zaz.

Yea. I like doing what I do in the RVS.

At least, he has done so in my games with him.

I do it in most of my more recent games, so, yea, I do it often.

Well, in this case it doesn't apply

So you say...

You obv knew that and are now trying to get me lynched.

Well, duh, of course I did.

Reasons for that can be found below XD

Ah, I love playing with Zaz. So vitalizing.

Obv a lie as Rofl would never betray me

XP

right Rofl?

Eh, you never know...

Mastin is planning to use circular logic here

It's the best kind.

when I get lynched and turn up as Mafia A traitor in order to keep himself and the rest of our team safe

The government of Mastin will neither confirm nor deny the existence of this claim.

Discuss that

Zaz, you're so much fun. So much for my promise to not tell so many jokes.

Do you actually think that Khan would have roleclaimed if this were the case?

1: Yay! New feedback!

2: Wicked, you've obviously read a good portion of the game--why is that the first thing you comment on?

3: I have explained this opinion many times, though Kise should as well, considering that's his quote.

Maybe, but I kinda doubt it.

I'm keeping an eye on Khan. He's never going to leave my suspicion list because of this.

I am willing to believe Khan for now

As long as he appears pro-town, I am as well.

unless he does something scummy.

Glad that someone else agrees with me on that matter.

Although I believe his claim

At this very moment, so do I.

I would

hesitate to vote him [ufor doing something scummy[/u]

just because he RC'd miller.

This seems to conflict with the earlier opinion--

I am willing to believe Khan for now,

unless he does something scummy

.

Can you explain the inconsistency, Wicked?

I am going to pretend he is just an ordinary player

I wouldn't take it that far.

to make it fair for everybody.

I can understand this opinion, though, like I said, I disagree with it.

I am sorry, but your posts are getting too long and none of which actually include content that is helping this conversation.

How is scum hunting not helping conversation?

I think that some of your posts are just distracting.

Of course my early ones were--it was the RVS; that's what they were meant for.

But you can't call all of my posts distracting when they're scum hunting.

Are you calling scum hunting a distraction?

If I did not think that anybody else was scummy

'Cept, only scum don't think anyone is scummy.

and we had a deadline that was near

We're nowhere close--we've got weeks left.
Why state this now?

then I'd vote Mastin

Fencesitting-->Scumtell.

because he is not helping us at all

Right, scum hunting is in no way helping the rest of the town. [/sarcasm]

and I think it would be really hard to tell whether he was mafia or town.

And vote me because of it?!?
Seems like guilty-until-proven-innocent (GUPI) logic to me.

You have NO way of knowing if ANYONE is mafia or town, unless you, yourself, are mafia.

This applies to ALL players, not just me.

Why use it against just me, then?

Mastin I would like to see more contribution from you.

I'm scum hunting right now. I have been. WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED?!?

Which of these three people do you find the scummiest?

Of those three?

Hayker gave me bad vibes last night, and Kise needs to answer a few points. At this point in time, I am thinking that Fallen Angel is likely town.

I am a bit suspicious of roflcopter

This is not surprising.

because his vote for mastin doesn't really seem to have a good reason.

Hey, he's roflcopter the tunneler. Does he need a good reason with an ego like his?

He is also trying to convince us that Fallen is mafia without giving reasons.

Rofl is a strong believer in Tarhalindur's Chainsaw Defense--defending me and attacking my attacker (rofl) would make FA scummy to him, because he thinks I am scum.

I don't know if this is his normal playstyle or what

To my knowledge, it is.

but if I didn't have any other games to base his playstyle on

His sig gives all of his completed games. You can find them easily.

then I'd vote him.

So, where is your vote going?

I would like to hear from others whether roflcopter is acting normal or not.

To my knowledge, yes, he is.

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That's page three. I'll do page four as well.

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"MafiaMann
is having a scumday!"
Happy S-day, Mafia Mann.

Mastin I believe you are using a lot of sarcasm in your posts

I mark my sarcasm with either the roll emot or with "[/sarcasm]".

Really, what's wrong with sarcasm?

and thats definitly not helping the town

My RVS tactics work wonders, don't they?

It does help the town.
I've gone over this a million times.
It

-Gets us out of the RVS,
-Gets us debating,
-Gets us scum hunting,
-Generally at least gives me suspects.

Now, how does that NOT help the rest of the town?

and its going to create confusion.

Only if people put some weight into my RVS tactics. They're generally worthless.

Aww, the image broke. I can't see your wonderful picture, Zaz.

Fortunately, copy image location works well. Yay!

This image answers your question and explains that we shouldn't be that sure of it, Mastin

So I'll say we use Mudkip next night to ensure our victory Twisted Evil
Who else LURVES mudkips XD?

Why did you claim?

He did claim at the best time for any miller to claim.

And for clarification, dead miller or miller?

I asked what type of Miller he is (I think I did, anyway. Meant to, if I didn't), because there are at least three. You listed death miller (who shows up as mafia upon death) and just miller (shows up as miller upon death), but there are more than just those two.

Bad vote

Yea, yea. I know.

Mudkipz say no to this!

Aww...but it's soooo much fuuuuun...!

Definitly LAL!

Yet you don't vote me. Vote for the person who isn't voting her suspicions.

Mudkipz support LAL, and so do I!

My, my, you sure say what your vote doesn't seem to support...

OMG Shocked ^^That's so LAL

Eh, I'll change it when I have the time.

As said, Mudkipz support LAL
So Mudkip LURVERS support LAL! Let's lynch Mastin XD

Don't tell me you think Kublai is town, based upon him claiming miller, right?

That was what I understood from rofl.

Yeah, it's known site-wide.

I wouldn't say that--I'd say most-of-the-site-knows, but not site-wide.

Which means that scum could also use it like this.

Yea. I know.

So, in my opinion, it doesn't say anything about his allignment.

It is, however, worthy of keeping an eye on.

Miller claiming early is of benefit

The question is...benefit to whom?

means a cop won't waste investgation on him.

The same applies to if he is scum. :/

I guess it's possible your scum claiming miller

Which is why Khan has my eye.

but it seems a sub-optimal strategy to me for scum, due to 1) the attention that's drawn to a miller claim and 2) millers being vigged is very common, so yeh.

Perhaps you failed to consider that maybe Khan tried to do something last night as scum (like, say, night-kill someone), and him panicking if it failed to go through, thinking he'll be exposed.

If scum fail to successfully carry out their action, they have reason to be afraid, in my opinion.

What's scum tell 420?

Eh, I just randomly assign scum tells with the number 42 in them.

And does this mean you consider miller claiming early as a scum tell?

RVS Shenanigans. I will keep an eye on Khan, but his claim isn't a scum tell. (Doesn't mean it's a town tell, though.)

I guess this is actually a fair point

If you want to put any real weight on my RVS tactics, sure, go ahead and bandwagon rofl's logic.
Really.
It was the RVS,
And not having fun's a scum tell.

and although I dont' consider him as good as confirmed, I understand the position.

As do I. I can understand someone thinking that, but I definitely do not agree with the opinion.

The mastin proceeds to unvote here;

Of course I do.
Khan was my RVS vote.
In reality, he's worthy of keeping an eye on,
But not worthy of a vote.

Why did you unvote here?

Keeping a random vote on needlessly is pointless and unproductive.

Sure it's no longer the "rvs" but, there's no harm keeping your vote.

It's no longer the RVS. My vote was a RVS vote. Simple conclusion: remove RVS vote, for it is no longer useful.

Don't see why I would keep it on, unless I was seriously, seriously suspecting Khan's claim. (I have minor suspicions of it--not enough for a vote.)

Looks more like you unvoted b/c rofl called you on it.

Again, why keep a vote on someone if they're not your primary suspect?
Khan's worthy of keeping an eye on. Not worthy of keeping a vote on.

Well, Idk you could always read the information and see what you think of it?

Exactly.

What do you mean "which is probably what he wants".

He's accusing me of wanting to cause confusion and have people not know what to do with my posts, of course.

Pffffft it sucks and you know it

I've explained why it's a good tactic several times. I've yet, other than the explanation of it being confusing, to hear a good, solid reason as to why it doesn't work.
It gets us out of the RVS within an hour,
It gets discussion going,
It gets us scum hunting.
What more do you need?

As for Mastin behaving differently

I'm erratic.

well I've read/reading along with a few of his games

Considering my post length...
That takes some serious skill.

and he appears to be consistent in all of them, so yeh it seems the "norm" so to speak.

I wouldn't say I'm consistent. Mostly consistent, sure, but some games do have notable differences.

This seems weird to me.

I agree.

It's like "you're ok for now, but I may find you scummy in the future" kinda thing.

Yea--fence sitting.

erm, what's the point of this?

We all want to know. :/

Mastin do you consider bandwaggoning to be a scum tell/scummy?

Depends on how it is done.
With little/no/poor/repeated from another's reasoning, yes.

With their own, good, darn-solid logic, no.

So rofl is scummy for thinking Mastin is scum

Yea, I disagree with that as well.

yet rofl brings up some valid points.

Like I said, you can think someone's scummy (or even know that they're scum), yet still admit that they do raise some good points. I don't really see the problem with it.

This sounds rather strange

Not to me, it doesn't.

so can you please clarify what you mean here?

Eh, fair request. Don't really see the point, though.

You accept Mastin is being mastin

Because I am.

however rofl seems like rofl to me so far.

Well, he hasn't played with rofl before. From what I've seen and heard, I believe this is normal rofl play, but to my knowledge, FA hasn't played with Rofl before (but he has played with me).

Not really a large issue. For many, I imagine it's vice-versa.

If you're going to use meta to excuse one players actions

I have no problem with this.

then surely it's strange not to apply this to everyone?

If he knows about rofl's play, then, yes.
Otherwise, not really.
I've been called scum(my) by those who don't know my playstyle, and then they reverse their opinion later on.

Also Kise's vote seems perfectly reasonable.

And I agree. It's not the best reasoning in the world, but it did have reasoning.

Gonna end this here as it's probably long enough

It's not long until it matches the length of my average post.

will continue it in another post.

I suppose it'd be fair to do the same with me, when I finish page four. Start a fresh post for page five.

You and I seem to be of a similar kind, Zaz.
The vig direct thing you noted, of course, was me drawing reactions, as at the time, I had not declared the RVS over.

It makes him worthy of watching. Keeping an eye on him after the claim is a very good idea.

As I explained, I didn't even see 33. I didn't know it existed due to a simulpost, and the first new post I saw was FA's.

And no, we're here to lynch scum, anti-town players =/= scum.

By the way...did I mention that Faraday is obviously a pro-town player?

Good posts like this make it so that I'm already putting him on my pro-town player list.

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Okay, that's page four.
"OH, LORITHIA, MY EYES!!!!!!!"
Sorry, sorry, I was holding back as much as I could... :/