I'm not asking to be lynched. I'm just pointing out that SerialClergyman's claimed beliefs are logically inconsistent, and therefore unlikely to be genuine.
Again, for reference, the three statements that were logically inconsistent (all in the same paragraph no less!) are:
SerialClergyman wrote:However, I think we'll be just as likely to hit scum and we'll have more information if we lynch Lowell. If we lynch Xyl and he flips scum, it's possible he was just buddying Lowell and trying to ditch the responsibility of leading the town astray. But if we lynch Lowell and hit scum (Vermillon) then I think we can definitely understand this derailing that Xyl is doing.
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi
I'm writing this on my phone, so I'm forced to be more brief than I'd like to. Your reconstruction of my attacks about your bad meta arguments are crap.
1) If you're telling me that mentioning a game where rofl thought you were scum and you turned out to be town was just an attempt to jog memory for some non-argument reason, then you're seriously grasping at straws. Go have a look at post 1768 and tell me if that's not trying to make a self-meta argument that you're town. Rofl saw that and summarily dismissed it in 1770.
This is terrible logic.
2) You absolutely and specifically make this point against CKD. It's hard to quote on my phone but it's post 2016. something like "You were attacking empking and so after two games of accusing someone of being scummy for backtracking you haven't learned anything?"
This is terrible logic.
3) If your argument is that your failure to deal with a loaded question doesn't prove your scum, then that's so trivial it's not even worth saying. It is scummy, it is less scummy if it's something you've done often as town, but I don't like it either way because it shows you are unwilling to engage with the argument, which is awfully convinient as scum who doesn't have a good reason to justify their actions.
I do think you're scum, and I do think you're making up bullshit, but it doesn't follow that I should vote you. I view people posting and providing a defence as less scummy than people trying to coast through and I'm not giving up on Lowell just because you are making more noise. (See yesterday, where I was the first on Nam's wagon and stayed there the entire day despite you looking scummier and scummier and being an easier lynch for much of the day with rofl's case. It might have been the wrong decision, given you're looking like scum and nam wasn't, but so it goes.) I don't think there's anything wrong with my reasons for being on one wagon or another and I'll be damned if I let one of my top suspects tell me who to lynch. You're playing semantics, statistics and bullshit because you can't argue the merits of the case.
Incidentally, this is also why Faraday is hugely more suspicious than CKD and me. Because we're actually facing the music and making arguments and attacking who we think are scummy, where he seems content to sit at the back and make non-threatening noises like he's done ALL GAME. So you got that bit wrong as well.
And your argument about me wanting to lynch Lowell because he's not part of my supposed scumteam - well that would apply to you as well! So it would be easier to just switch my vote to you.
And finally, more bullshit about you waiting for how your actions make sense even with (AGAIN with the self-meta) your no bus meta.
Well it actually makes even MORE sense, so I'll spell it out. You vote Lowell to start the day for a bit of distancing. You don't really have any intent to lynch but it's something you can point to later (like now.) Then suddenly the lynch takes off, people like me continue to find evidence against him and he completely fails to defend himself. Now you're in trouble. You didn't really want him lynched, so what do you do? You totally derail the wagon and vote someone that KMD voted (never mind you weren't sure at the time why). Then you continue to put presure on the Lowell wagon to get derailed by instantly calling out anyone on the wagon as scummy and adding them to your scumlist, even if that involves increasing Ver numbers from 3 to 4 to include everybody. It's totally transparent, and in fact, your actions ONLY make sense if you are unprepared to bus.
And for the record, this post has cost me About ten bucks of data allowance so everyone had better bloody read it!
SerialClergyman wrote:I'll be damned if I let one of my top suspects tell me who to lynch
So... you won't vote me because you think I'm scum.
I can dissect the rest if anyone (other than SerialClergyman and curiouskarmadog) cares, but I think that right there is enough to prove that SerialClergyman is spouting bullshit.
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi
Xylthixlm wrote:Also, please add "bad logic" and "strawman" to the list of reasons I'm voting SerialClergyman. Although he and CKD are doing a damn good job convincing me they're both scum.
Faraday hasn't done anything to make himself scummier lately, though. Where is he?
what an odd way to phrase it. It's almost like I should have done something to make myself scummier. .
But yeh I haven't been around, it's pretty much site wide. College shit.
I'm still pretty damn certain Lowell is probably scum, and I don't really think there's much gonna change my mind, the breadcrumb seems way too damning.
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
I give up dealing with xyl. That was one of the worst summaries I've ever seen. I'm voting Lowell because he's one of the two people I think are scum. I reject your challenge to vote you because I see no reason to favour your lynch over lowells. And EVEN THEN, your argument doesn't make sense because if you were scum with Lowell you could have plenty of reasons to take the heat off of him. Maybe he's a power role scum and you aren't?
Not to mention, if I had changed your next post would have almost certainly been filled wih rhetoric of me switching to another target and calling me scummy for that.
So go on, keep attacking those who disagree with you and find you scummy while giving everyone else a pass now that they arent vocally disagreeing with you, and keep spending hours writing up statistical arguments to Try to set up catch 22s. Go on ignoring the bulk of the posts I write and legitimate issues about you and making terrible meta defence and arguments. I cannot believe you'd be convincing anybody.
SerialClergyman: Ah, but I know I'm town. I just have to hope that the rest of the town is competent.
Anyways, keep on with your plan to get Lowell lynched. He's at L-1, just a push away, why give up a sure thing? Oops, I guess SpyreX unvoted. Well, you still have a chance there, you only need two more votes. You must be too afraid to lynch me first because when I come up town people will think maybe I was right. So keep on insisting that we're both scum, and then if Lowell gets lynched and he comes up town (or maybe Cerulean) you can turn around and say that hey, Xyl is still scum, let's lynch him next. It'll still work as long as no one believes me! So keep on trying.
#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi
, ladies and gentlemen, is why I try to ignore attacks on me if I can. Too many people view the simple act of defense as scummy and don't even realize they're doing so.
No, I am voting you because of all your weak attacks of CKD during pages 80 and 81.
Xyl wrote:I'm giving you the chance to pick the game which will demonstrate your point the best. If you don't want to, I'll just pick one randomly.
I don't see how a townie would benefit from randomly choosing evidence to use.
Xyl wrote:So he's probably not Cerulean, and probably not Vermillion. What does that make him?
I don't see where I said he wasn't Vermillion. I still think that is a possibility, and don't see why it couldn't be.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
-Wickedestjr
I think one of you and Sc are scum. I don't think both of you are in the same scum group. It's possible you're both scum of different scum-groups, although I consider this less likely, as I think you were both voting for Mastin for a fair bit of the game, so I don't think you're probable cerulean. Sc is more possible for Cerulean, but he looks more likely to be vermillion mafia.
Then Lowell is more probable scum than either of you.
are you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?
Wickedestjr wrote:No, I am voting you because of all your weak attacks of CKD during pages 80 and 81.
1: Which attacks are you calling "weak"?
Wickedestjr wrote:I don't see how a townie would benefit from randomly choosing evidence to use.
2:
That's why I gave him a chance to pick.
1: Let's just say that none of your points convinced me.
2: So? Just because he doesn't pick a game, doesn't mean you randomly pick. If you are going to accuse somebody of playing the way they play as scum, you should have some recent games in which they were town, and some recent games in which they were scum to use for reference. Don't you agree?
Xyl wrote:
CKD's attacks on me in this game contain loaded questions, which according to Wikipedia is a logical fallacy.
I think it's a null tell. I have seen townies ask pretty stupid questions. I have asked some pretty stupid questions when I was town. Give me the three worst questions that CKD has asked in this game in your opinion, and that may change my mind.
Xyl wrote:
CKD has definitely used similar attacks, including loaded questions, in a previous game where he was scum.
I'm sure he has done the same as town. Has he even tried to give examples? If he hasn't, then I'd like to hear from him too.
Xyl wrote:
CKD has not shown any cases of him using similar attacks in any previous game where he was town.
I'm waiting for some too.
Faraday wrote:as I think you were both voting for Mastin for a fair bit of the game
From memory, I recall SC being on the Mastin wagon near the end of day 2. And Xyl wasn't on that wagon very long either.
[/list]
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. -Wayne Gretzky"
-Wickedestjr
Looking through every game CKD has played as town would be a poor use of my time, and if CKD doesn't pick I have no reason to pick any one game over another. So I'd just pick one. ("Random" here doesn't mean selected by chance, it means selected arbitrarily.)
I asked CKD to provide a town example and he hasn't. I'm assuming that's because he can't.
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"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi
Looking through ckd's posts for quotes for Wickedestjr. Just found this about roflcopter:
curiouskarmadog wrote:I have been down this EXACT same road with him before (exept maybe he posted more). I attacked him for spouting that "X is obv town"....I felt that it was scum motivated...I was wrong...his play is scummy to be sure, but for him, it is a null tell.
Interesting. So CKD, by this logic my avoiding questions is a null tell - you attacked me for it in Frogs Mafia and were wrong. Do you agree that it is a null tell?
#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi
Wickedestjr wrote:I think it's a null tell. I have seen townies ask pretty stupid questions. I have asked some pretty stupid questions when I was town. Give me the three worst questions that CKD has asked in this game in your opinion, and that may change my mind.
Your wish is my command.
curiouskarmadog wrote:KK, why are you in a rush to get the day over?
curiouskarmadog wrote:you are back tracking and contradicting to the extreme yourself to avoid this lynch, why?
curiouskarmadog wrote:If you think he is scum of any variety, why is it a bad lynch? How is it protown to lead people away from a lynch of someone YOU THINK IS SCUM?
Again, compare those with this quote from a game where he was town.
curiouskarmadog in Mafia 86 wrote:I dont want to misquote you or assume you are saying something you are not
Does that seem like it's from the same player who is making wild assumptions and misrepresentations about what I said, and then immediately accusing me of contradictions without even trying to get clarification?
#mafia@irc.globalgamers.net
"Xyl was completely berserk" -dramonic
"Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game." -Vi
Xylthixlm wrote:Looking through ckd's posts for quotes for Wickedestjr. Just found this about roflcopter:
curiouskarmadog wrote:I have been down this EXACT same road with him before (exept maybe he posted more). I attacked him for spouting that "X is obv town"....I felt that it was scum motivated...I was wrong...his play is scummy to be sure, but for him, it is a null tell.
Interesting. So CKD, by this logic my avoiding questions is a null tell - you attacked me for it in Frogs Mafia and were wrong. Do you agree that it is a null tell?
I'm pretty sure this quote is refering my my distrust of roflopter.
Anyways, I think Xyl is very scummy, and should be lynched, but I am more so happy with lynching Lowell at this point in time. Therefore my vote stays of Lowell. BTW, Lowell, it's Wednesday.
Why would I breadcrumb mason and then deny it? Still reading, but this is the part of the case against me that is the dumbest. Wouldn't I, um, WANT people to think I'm a mason?
what an odd way to phrase it. It's almost like I should have done something to make myself scummier. .
