Mafia 96 - Murder in Emerald City (Game Over!)

[Kmd4390]

Xyl, we agree that rofl is probably town then?

[Faraday]

So wait, KMD, what happened between post 1435 and now to convince you rofl is probably town? Was it just the review of your case on rofl?

[Kmd4390]

Faraday, when writing the following post, I started to use bad logic, caught myself, and thought about the situation:

Kmd, you don't think Mastin's flip affects your case at all?

I suck at seeing connections.

<I had a paragraph here explaining why Rofl is scum, and then realized it was a terrible argument, so that's gone>

Actually, if he is scum with Mastin, he made a terrible play or has another scumbuddy still alive. If he's scum opposing Mastin, he made a dumb move offering to be vidged. Fuck.

Unvote

.

The last paragraph is my thinking. So I guess you could say Xyl convinced me.

[roflcopter]

kmd, why are you so sure hayker is town?

[Kmd4390]

kmd, why are you so sure hayker is town?

Gut read and nothing to suggest otherwise.

Btw, I expect you or someone else to call Hayker and I scumbuddies soon. If I was scum, that's probably who I'd be most connected to.

[roflcopter]

kmd, why are you so sure hayker is town?

Gut read and nothing to suggest otherwise.

Btw, I expect you or someone else to call Hayker and I scumbuddies soon. If I was scum, that's probably who I'd be most connected to.

i still think you're more likely to be mastin's last scumbuddy, but we'll wait and see what happens with hayker. you're certainly fitting my expected behavior for hayker's scumpartner, especially if he's a scum pr, given that there's probably only two vermillions left.

[Kmd4390]

Rofl, which scumteam should we be lynching today?

[roflcopter]

to answer the question (again) of which team i think we should be trying to lynch today, i say we aim for vermillion.

the remaining cerulean mafia, if they know what they're doing, will be trying to shoot vermillion mafia tonight, not town. so they'll either succeed in killing a scum (yay for town!) or they'll kill someone who probably would have ended up mislynched anyway (still helping town). and since the suspect list for cerulean mafia is not very large, and the evidence is most certainly available between the mastin wagon's days 1 and 2, the town can easily come back to finding cerulean later and mop it up.

[Hayker]

vote hayker

.

Is he kidding me? He was scummy as hell D1, all but disappeared, then came back immediately after the thread opens to say "ouch, bad day to be a citizen." Easy vote.

If you must know, I tend to post more as a game gets rolling. I'm usually clueless day 1, start to get a grip day 2, and by day 3 my thoughts start to make sense to myself.

Though day 2 I could hav ebeen mroe active if not for:
Summer School
A tournament I need to get done in FEABL
Being in 3 other mafia games on different sites
Also dealing with life in general, which is always a nuisance
and of course enjoying my summer. Part of that involves mafia, but I have many other activities I enjpoy doing. Mostly different games.

Also I like your use of words. "Easy vote"

I sense that KMD may vote for me soon.

[Hayker]

so basically one with 3 and one with 4. But who knows what the gm has in store for us really, this is all speculation. As of now, I think it unlikely for there to be a town bg.

Speculation, yes. Not useless though, as it's reasonable to assume a mafia with a doctor and rb'er wouldn't have 2 more members in a game this size with 2 scum factions.

Are uneven scum groups especially common? this seems a weird conclusion to jump to based on 1 vermillion flip.

I've little expierience in the matter of mutliple scum groups. It is merely speculation. To expand my thoughts, I think one coudl have 3 with the two power roles, and if the teams are uneven, 4 could be on the other team with less/different power roles.

This descision is based purely on gut. Rofl, you've convinced me to not be the best target for today, but don't think you're in the clear yet.

This rubs me the wrong way, not sure why but the 'warning' at the end is a bit odd.

The warning is saying that he is still triggering my scumdar, but is not going to be my target for now. I think there are people who have been flying under the radar too much. I realize I could put into that catagory, but my recent posting hopfully has altered that a bit.

Vote Hayker

, I find him the scummiest of those posting, although would like achillies to post too. So second the prod request on him.[/quote]

What about Lowell? Anhy thoughts or comments on him?

[Hayker]

Vote Hayker, I find him the scummiest of those posting, although would like achillies to post too. So second the prod request on him.

Fixed.

[Kmd4390]

to answer the question (again) of which team i think we should be trying to lynch today, i say we aim for vermillion.

the remaining cerulean mafia, if they know what they're doing, will be trying to shoot vermillion mafia tonight, not town. so they'll either succeed in killing a scum (yay for town!) or they'll kill someone who probably would have ended up mislynched anyway (still helping town). and since the suspect list for cerulean mafia is not very large, and the evidence is most certainly available between the mastin wagon's days 1 and 2, the town can easily come back to finding cerulean later and mop it up.

Vote Wicked

Makes sense. Cerulean would be dumb not to shoot for Vermilion tonight.

I sense that KMD may vote for me soon.

Umm.. why?

[Hayker]

I just sensed a slight change in your opinion towards me, is my sense false?

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl, we agree that rofl is probably town then?

Yes.

[Kmd4390]

I just sensed a slight change in your opinion towards me, is my sense false?

Yeah. I'm pretty sure you are town still.

[SerialClergyman]

Firstly a disclaimer: I can't post as much content as I have been due to lack of time and access.

I'll give some thoughts over the last 4 or 5 pages.

I think rofl didn't bus. He's either vermillon or none. I continue ot think that if one scum faction has a doctor, there's a better-than-usual chance that the other one will have one as well, and rofl could well have made that gambit knowing he had a doc (or a roleblocker) in reserve to make sure he didn't die.

Kmd's U-turn on rofl has me utterly confused. I've never seen someone make that kind of extreme flip. Kmd - you very much glazed over your reason for your transformation - perhaps it's not significant to you but it's really significant to us. Could you please post the full paragraph you removed and point out the bad logic? At the moment, you've gone form being prepared to die yourself for a chance to get rofl killed to ignoring that he was on both wagons in your bandwagon analysis.

I think Hayker's Sucks To Be Us is a minor point, but it's unusual for someone with a low activity to suddenly be there at the ready at the start of D3.

I think people who are deciding which class of scum to lynch are really pushing their own ability to find scum. Either that or they're just a hell of a lot better than me at it. If I was sure that the person I was targeting was scum I'd lynch them, regardless of which faction they belong to. And as much as they could cross-kill, so could they not - the longer we have 2 scum groups against us, the longer we lose an extra person each night. In fact, as I write this I'm more and more suspicious of those who are pushing this line - I'd prefer to have the time to make more lynches than hope that the mafia get it right and kill their opposing faction.

I think rofl mentioning it is a null tell, but I think all of the people that accepted it without actually thinking about it could well be vermillion trying to distance themselved from his theory.

I read molestargazer's post attacking those on the mastin wagon as pro-town but misguided.

KMD mentions empking being mufasa's neighbor in a weird way. It's not really relevent or insightful or does anything significant at all. It just didn't sit well with me.

I did a brief run through of VPs posts to try to find a breadcrumbed investigation but couldn't, I'll have another look when I get a chance though.

I think the little wagon on rofl yesterday has a good chance of finding scum. I'm not ruling out rofl from being scum, but I think that the last cerulean could well try to use his gambit as a reason to attack him (you're prepared to die via vig so we're going to kill you is a damn stupid argument). Of the two, mosestargazer made his point loudly and clearly and put his money where his mouth is, which I have always found pro-town. Namttam however was pretty weasly, and switched after a poor case on VP he had been riding since the day before, when he took up some reasoning of mine against VP.

That's enough to earn my vote.

vote Namttam

[Wickedestjr]

I think the Ceruleans may have been planning to kill VP once Mastin was dead. Does anybody else think this?

I'm not sure what you mean here, we know this happened, so yeh I do think this.

VP attacked Mastin a lot, and therefore killing VP before Mastin's death would make Mastin look bad. That was just my opinion though. I could be wrong.

[Wickedestjr]

i think i've been forgetting something. did mastin ever claim to have blocked vp baltar? i know baltar was part of that fantasy scumteam he was trying to pitch us. if he was blocked by mastin that explains why its been so hard to find evidence of investigation results in his posts.

Mastin never said that he roleblocked VP. He said that he roleblocked Khan and Lowell.

[Wickedestjr]

There is scum on the MM wagon. Likely more than one.

I remember voting because it was MM or no lynch

, and Hayker voted later than I did. That means that we can find scum in the following list:
Serial
Wicked
Rofl
Lowell
Faraday

That is one of the main reasons why I voted MM too. I think that Lowell might be a Vermillion. He has been acting strangely and wanted Mastin lynched.

[molestargazer]

Rereading. I'm going to try this format for catching up, in an effort to avoid a wall of quotes and text. I will keep any reasons I make for what I say, so if you see something that looks a bit off, ask me about it and I'll gladly explain.

Right, I've reached the end of P56, so here's a summary.
So far, I find Hayker pretty scummy. I don't like his "gloat" post at the very start of the day, nor do I like his absurd suggestion that Rofl is scum because his playstyle means that he could have bussed.

Vote: Hayker

I agree with Wicked that the inactives should come forward. I don't want blatant lurkers to survive longer than they have to.
Wondering why Xyl targeted purely Wicked's defence of Mastin near the start of the day and not others such as my own.

[Wickedestjr]

Kmd, I don't understand why you are voting me. For being on both wagons? You also have me listed as scummiest on your big catch up post. Care to elaborate on that? Notice that the only dead people that were on both wagons were ckool and VP. They were both innocent. So you are just assuming that I'm scum? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Wickedestjr]

In my previous post, when I said "big catch up post" I meant to say "big analysis post". Sorry.

[molestargazer]

So let's move onto P57 and onwards.

Summary:
Don't like Wicked's defence of him attacking Mastin when he could easily be a member of another group.
Not sure I like forcing a claim out of Rofl, but I might not object if it could help clarify things.
I like Xyl's play for these pages.

Not sure I like Kmd's mega-quick flip from thinking Rofl is obvscum to thinking he's town, and listing me as possible scum for voting him on DAY 2, when Kmd himself still thought Rofl was scum, iirc.

[Hayker]

Wooohoooo! Yeaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh. AWSOOOOOOOMMMMEEEEE!!!(use any random steriotypacle voiced that come to mind)

It seems like I was right last night to think I would be the first target of the day.

So I just read redith/mole's iso posts and don't like the way he always seems to be catching up. He also made the last minute defense of Mastin, which I gotta say, looks pretty bad. His predasessor was also quite a bit of a lurker(more so than me)

Also, atr one point he says there is barely any reasons for mastin to repond to being voted. Well you know, except for all the posts wicked did on Mastin, or the 45 point view by VP of why Mastin is scummy. Sure not everyone put in 2 cents, but as one or two others have mentioned, some times, you simply need to make a vote. The case on Mastin was fairly complete, and wasn't about to grow any time soon because of Mastin's all of a sudden drop in posting.

And I'll throw in a defense of myself as a bonus.

One of the reasons that I think my idea could make sense, is the fact that all games have mind games within them. Mafia is a particularily good example of a game where mind games come in all the time. In fact, mafia is one giant cluster**** of a mind game. Mind games can be done in many, many different ways. One particular mind game, is for a "good" player, doing a "bad" move. This often makes a once terrible move, into a glorious Solar idea(cookie for referance). I play witht the assumption that mind games will come into play from many different angles, because mind games tend toi be very effective. Well, if done correctly anyways. Some times they crash and burn, but hey, every mind game has a downside.

Anyways

/vote:molestargazer

[molestargazer]

It seems like I was right last night to think I would be the first target of the day.

So I just read redith/mole's iso posts and don't like the way he always seems to be catching up. He also made the last minute defense of Mastin, which I gotta say, looks pretty bad. His predasessor was also quite a bit of a lurker(more so than me)

Also, atr one point he says there is barely any reasons for mastin to repond to being voted. Well you know, except for all the posts wicked did on Mastin, or the 45 point view by VP of why Mastin is scummy. Sure not everyone put in 2 cents, but as one or two others have mentioned, some times, you simply need to make a vote. The case on Mastin was fairly complete, and wasn't about to grow any time soon because of Mastin's all of a sudden drop in posting.

And I'll throw in a defense of myself as a bonus.

One of the reasons that I think my idea could make sense, is the fact that all games have mind games within them. Mafia is a particularily good example of a game where mind games come in all the time. In fact, mafia is one giant cluster**** of a mind game. Mind games can be done in many, many different ways. One particular mind game, is for a "good" player, doing a "bad" move. This often makes a once terrible move, into a glorious Solar idea(cookie for referance). I play witht the assumption that mind games will come into play from many different angles, because mind games tend toi be very effective. Well, if done correctly anyways. Some times they crash and burn, but hey, every mind game has a downside.

Anyways

/vote:molestargazer

Firstly, wow, don't you just

LOVE

OMGUS?

1) I am not voting you because of ANYTHING you did yesterday.
2) Sorry, that's how I play. Like it or lump it.
3) Yes, my last-minute defence of Mastin looks bad. I did what I thought was right, I put my opinions forward, and I was wrong. I don't want to stray too much into WIFOM territory, but it would have been astoundingly dumb for me to do that as scum.
4) I was saying that at the TIME OF VOTING, no-one put any reasons forward.

5) You're talking about "mind games". That's no excuse for you to make an attack at someone that you cannot prove and has no reasoning to back it up other than playstyle. That's not a defence at all.