Phables: Death Note Mafia (Game Over)

[Kairyuu]

Fact: Kairyuu is in a game with magnus_orion.

Fact: Kairyuu is town.

Fact: Kairyuu has yet to be the same alignment as magnus_orion.

Conclusion: magnus_orion is scum.

vote: magnus_orion

[Kairyuu]

Fact: Kairyuu is in a game with magnus_orion.

Fact: Kairyuu is town.

Fact: Kairyuu has yet to be the same alignment as magnus_orion.

Conclusion: magnus_orion is scum.

vote: magnus_orion

Why are you obsessed with your alignment?

magnus and I have noticed a trend. Whenever we try to play a game together, we are always opposite alignments. Therefore, working on that premis, me being town would automatically make magnus scum. His counterargument is, of course, the exact same thing in reverse, which is to be expected of him, since he's scum and all.

[Kairyuu]

Also, obligatory "Mastin that is so anti-town. What are you doing self-voting and claiming scum? Now we hafta lynch you cuz of WIFOM" spiel that won't actually go anywhere.

If you can't tell, I strongly disapprove of that move, but you've ignored everyone else who tried to get you to stop, so I'm not even gonna bother trying.

[Kairyuu]

I'm Lazy. Using quote instead of the QT. Rather bothersome.

Fact: Kairyuu is in a game with magnus_orion.

Fact: Kairyuu is town.

Fact: Kairyuu has yet to be the same alignment as magnus_orion.

Conclusion: magnus_orion is scum.

vote: magnus_orion

Why are you obsessed with your alignment?

I would totally do that if we were both scum. It would be awesome.
magnus and I have noticed a trend. Whenever we try to play a game together, we are always opposite alignments. Therefore, working on that premis, me being town would automatically make magnus scum. His counterargument is, of course, the exact same thing in reverse, which is to be expected of him, since he's scum and all.

Or you could both be scum, bussing each other.

[Kairyuu]

Oops. Put my comment in the wrong spot.

It should be:
________
Quoteblock

I would totally do that if we were both scum. It would be awesome.
________
Somehow my comment got shoved inside the quoteblock.

[Kairyuu]

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

...........

you are either lying or not playing toward your win condition. Unless this is normal for you, which I sincerely hope its not,

unvote
vote mastin

Note my comment on the matter. He does it all the time, and I am expecting that he will claim you to be scum and vote you now. That seems to be the general progression from what I've seen.

[Kairyuu]

@Mastin: Anti-town=/=scummy. I will not vote you for something I know you do on purpose. I do not think that it works, and this sort of thing is essentially what got people to not like playing with Natirasha, since he always claimed SK in his first post. I strongly dislike anti-town plays like that, but I'm not naive enough to actually vote you over an annoying null tell.

[Kairyuu]

EVERYBODY STOP!

Seems we have a genuine scummyperson.

Hey, people! I'm Mastin. Most of you have seen me before, some have not. I'm eternally scummy, and this time, you're right to vote me! Because I'm a ticked off scum guy who might as well be a serial killer because I know the role name of my partners, and not who they are, and while we have a quick topic, none of them confirmed! Yay! <_<
Let's scum hunt:

Mastin Votes: Mastin

.

MOD: Please take note of the quoted post.

Mastin DIE!

Unvote, Vote Mastin

Note the attempt to get Mastin modkilled on page 1. If had actually done something against the rules then yes, I would somewhat agree with you. However, I think you're just being spiteful and trying to end the Day before the RVS has even fully ended.

unvote

vote: Lamont_Cranston

In other news, Mastin is pretty obv-town. Let's get to lynching Lamont-scum.

@Zeenon: Please check the rules post. The mod said to only use formatting if it has a purpose. Color changes are formatting.

@all: Screw it. Lamont is so obv-scum he get's to die right here, right now.

Daykill: Lamont_Cranston

[Kairyuu]

Personally it doesn't bother me at all. Might want to talk to the mod about it though, just in case.

[Kairyuu]

@magnus: Well, I suppose you'll find that out when the mod checks in.

[Kairyuu]

Oh God, it's another one. Mmk, I'm just going to head this off before it starts.

@Lamont: Back off. Now. You do not want to press the ad hom further. Trust me.

I love your wiki by the way. It fails to apply at all to actual strong scumtells. Not to mention the fact that you would be hard pressed to avoid your own lynch if you tried to push lynches based solely on those criteria.

@Zeenon: Yes it was. It was totally a real kill. I swear.

[Kairyuu]

@Mastin: I don't actually dislike your playstyle, just the initial self-vote. I despise extended RVSs, but I don't really have a problem with the concept if used in moderation (aka. 1 page or less). Usually by then I can find something that I can poke at until it turns into real discussion. I must admit though, your method is quite effective as well.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont: Except for the daykill bit that whole post was serious. I think you are scum, and I feel strongly enough about that to lynch you.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont: Except for the daykill bit that whole post was serious. I think you are scum, and I feel strongly enough about that to lynch you.

Since the DK part has been proven to be air (can't be sure what to expect in this game) alot of my OMGUS has vanished.

Carry on.

Waitwaitwaitwait. You actually thought the Daykill linking to a funny video was REAL.

Heh. Heheheheheheheheh. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! That's priceless.

You're still scum though.

[Kairyuu]

@ortolan:

Modkills only end the day if the modkilled player is town.

The rules post does not specify. Some mods end the Day regardless, and some punish the modkilled player's faction. We do not know which, so I assume that a modkill would end the Day. Also, the fact that I think Mastin is town weighs in with the fact that I think a modkill would end the Day.

If we lynch him and he's town this has the same result.

Why would we lynch him? He's obvtown.

Ergo potential for modkill is better because if he's scum we don't waste the lynch.

And if he's town D1 ends on PAGE ONE. Do you not understand the implications of that or something?

Ergo ur argument sux.

You're the one spewing craplogic, not me.

Unless you are scum and know he's town, in which case you're actively scummy.

Cool. 'cept I'm not scum, and he's not scummy at all, let alone scummy enough to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

DAMNIT!

I just lost a massive post. I'm not rewriting it, as it took me 2 hours to type, and I only have that amount of time left before I leave for a party.

Short Version:

@Lamont: Your "case" against me fails to actually address why you think I'm scummy. You pretty much called it gut, and pointed out things I did that weren't scumtells. You're OMGUSing me, and it's really obvious.

@Zazie: Trying to get a modkill on page one ends D1 before 75% of the players make even a single post. As scum it is a great move, because it gives them a lynch and a kill without risking any of them except the one calling for the modkill. It's a good trade off for scum to make.

@all: magnus is probably town. I can vouch for this weird as hell playstyle being his town meta. I have expressed annoyance with it in person to him repeatedly in the past, but he ignores me, and since he is consistantly the N1 kill after catching most/all fo the scum D1 I've given up trying to convince him that it doesn't work, since it apparently does.

I'll try to pick through what I missed tomorrow, but I may still be frusterated enough to just move on. Don't expect anything more from me until tomorrow either way. I won't be home.

[Kairyuu]

Holy shit! How did you guys post that much in less than 24 hours?!?

I'm not even gonna pretend like I'm caught up. Hopefully I can read up later tonight.

-twitch-

Why is Mastin dead, and why isn't Lamont?

[Kairyuu]

@Phily: You obviously aren't paying attention. According to the flavor in the first post, Mastin was shot. I would assume that means he was shot. The likelyhood of that being a Death Note kill is somewhat low.

@all: Trying to catch up. Not really succeeding.

[Kairyuu]

~10 pages/day is NOT HELPING. If you expect me to get caught up before friggen Night then slow down already!

[Kairyuu]

Cool. Only five pages this time. [/sarcasm]

Really hoping to catch up by tomorrow, or Thursday at the latest. I never thought I'd find a game that I couldn't keep up with, but this just might be one. Unless it slows down considerably I may be forced to request replacement.

[Kairyuu]

@Kise: Experience has taught me that making multiple posts while catching up tends to be a problem (see: Open 145: Polygamist, where I flipped on zwet's alignment approximately 3 times in my 6 or so catch-up posts before determining him obvtown). I'd rather just post the compilation of all of my notes when I'm done.

@all: If someone could run through a quick, bare bones synopsis of the game thus far I would appreciate it.

[Kairyuu]

I hate you people. I really do. If I can't finish catching up tomorrow then I will be forced to replace out. I will say this one more time, since no one seems to be listening to those of us saying it.

STOP POSTING SO MUCH! NOT EVERYONE SPENDS 24 HOURS A DAY HERE!

[Kairyuu]

Thanks magnus. I like that idea. I'm reading frantically so that I can get current before tomorrow, because tomorrow begins a few extremely hectic days for me (2 double shifts and then going out of state). If the game sits still for long enough for the others to get caught up then I should be able to stay in it.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. To start, I must agree with a good majority of Mastin's analysis. Zee looks pretty pro-town, and KMD, Zazie, and myko do too. Lamont looks scummy as hell, and his constant ad hom is pissing me off to no end. Combining that with the refusals to even admit that he might be being rude make me want to get him force-replaced to keep me from blowing up at him.

I do, however, disagree with his read of magnus and Benmage. I have a decent town read on magnus, and Benmage hasn't done anything particularly scummy from what I've seen thus far.

@Lamont: You seem to like semantics. Only problem is, you argue them poorly.

No. People can do things that are perceived as scummy and not be scum. I don't think Kai is acting in a pro-town way currently but it is too early to determine anything beyond that I think he is "scum-like".

Scum-like = Behaving in a way similar to (like) the way scum would behave.
Scummy = Behaving in a way that indicates that you are scum.

Behaving in a way similar to the way scum would behave indicates that scum would behave in a scum like fashion. Following from this it can be stated that, since scummy behavior is used to accuse people of being scum, and people acting in a scum-like fashion are behaving in a way that scum would, they would be acting in a scummy way. From that we get that:

Scum-like = Scummy

And since:

Accusations of scumminess = accusations of being scum

it can be concluded that:

Accusations of being scum-like = Accusations of being scum.

Methinks that you called me scum, several people pointed out that you had a shit case, and you then backed off somewhat.

Pardon, but this was already refuted pages ago. It appeared that I had been killed by a day-vig shot and I criticized a play-style that would support such an action. I understand how you may of missed this as certain people have pushed this kool-aid of an idea.

I wish I actually was a dayvig. I would shoot you so fast your head would spin. You're scummy as hell, and I want to know why the hell Mastin died and you got spared.

@Zazie:

You probably also saw that I asked Kai why he thinks you're obv-town, not you. So let him answer.

Dunno if I responded to this, but the reason was that I could follow his logic and he seemed to make quite a bit of sense. That, combined with the fact that his motivations struck me as strongly pro-town, meant that I was confident in my read of him. Seems I was right though, just as I was right about zwet/hewitt, and Phily/Jazz in Polygamist.

(You're still a genius btw).

Mmk. I'm currently at the Mastin death scene, where I have been vindicated by the fact that Mastin was town. Now we just need to lynch Lamont to prove I was right about him too.

Hmm. Votecount was reset apparently.

vote: Lamont

@People thinking that Mastin was Modkilled: WTF? It was blatently obviously an in-game kill. If it was a modkill it would be labelled as such.

@Lamont:

Hmmm, I just googled the wiki. It says that Penber is a FBI agent who is chasing down the Kira.

So since Mastin has died this means he was just village...

This means Mastin = Master of Jackassery

This means Mastin = FAIL

My initial reaction was rejoicing but now its been replaced by being totally pissed off.

I'm going to update my wiki to include a new section in "honor" of Mastin. It will be called:

"Jackassery"

:/

Here's the thing. You sir, are the most annoying and childish person that I have ever had the displeasure to play with. If you think someone is scummy, then attack them for being scummy. If you don't like the way someone plays, then you have NO RIGHT to spend the entire game doing nothing but pestering them about their playstyle, and then gloating about it when they die. What would your reaction be if I said "You fucking suck at this game and should stop playing altogether because you are utterly useless and couldn't catch scum if they claimed?" I assume that you would feel that I was unnecessarily rude and condescending. Well guess what. That's exactly what you've been doing all game. Stop behaving like a little baby and start playing properly.

I would try to look for his "certain" defenders. People that would be more certain of his innocence than would be normal for mere blind villagers...

This is a bad assumption. You seem to be under the impression that anyone who agreed with Mastin or thought he was town must be scum because, in your little world, Mastin's play was so terrible as to be impossible to find pro-town. Get it through your head that you were wrong and move on.

Your premis is flawed. You are trying to salvage your original case even though the crux of it was proven false by Mastin's flip. You're flailing.

FoS: mykonian and Starbuck

Why would you agree with that complete tripe?

@Kise: You're barking up the wrooong tree my friend. Mastin broke no rules, and I never suspected that he did at any point. He was killed by another player, and his alignment was editted into vote counts. It's simple.

@Lamont:

Its easy now to say that Mastin was townie. My case against him crap play however. Those guilty of crap play can't blame their lynchers for lynching them; its their fault (please see my wiki). If it was a townie that vigged Mastin, they can't be blamed for being wrong -- it was Mastin's fault.

Pure, grade A bullshit right here. If Mastin was playing poorly, then yes, it would be his own fault if he was policy vigged. However, he was not playing anywhere close to poorly. You are just using the fact that he can't respond to your bullshit anymore to slander him. I won't stand for it. Even if he was scum he wouldn't deserve this shit from you.

@Mod: I would like to lodge a formal complaint against Lamont. He is being petty and rude for no purpose other than his own vindication. I request that he be replaced forcefully.

Noted.

@Lamont:

@ Kai: What are your reads on Spoilum & Philly?

Spoilum I have no read either way on. Neutral.

Phily I'm also neutral on, but leaning slightly scummy. His logic was simple to follow as town in Polygamist, but now I find myself wondering where he could possibly be getting some of his opinions from.

@all:Mmk. Here's the thing. I started this post at about 8pm. It is now 11:15, and I just finished commenting on page 23. As I have work early in the morning, I'm just going to leave this here. I didn't want to do this, but I pretty much have to if I want to convince myself I have a chance to catch up on this game.

Unfortunately, I'm working a double shift tomorrow, so if I end up posting it won't be until late at night, and seeing as I have another double on Saturday I might not even have the energy for that. Please try to keep posting to a minimum for the time being. You have several other people besides me who can't keep up, and several more who have expressed that they are hanging by the skin of their teeth and could fall behind at any time. Even if you don't want to slow down for my sake, perhaps you should consider doing so for them.

[Kairyuu]

We're lynching Lamont. That will happen. He's scummy as fuck, and is only suspecting me because I accused him of being scum, called Mastin town, and was right.

Also, note how he completely ignored my entire first catch-up post, when a large chunk of it was directed at him. Scummy McScumscum needs to die, and quickly too.

That said, I continue to be V/LA for a few more days, so I can't finish catching up until then.

[Kairyuu]

Alright, guys... if 14 of us make a lynch, we can enter night phase, and those who need to catch up on reading can do all that good stuff when the thread is locked. The best thing we can do right now is decide on lynching top suspects instead of continuing to flood the thread with posts.

Lamont = fun to lynch and full of candy. (and he's been ignoring my posts, and already said ignoring people is a scumtell)

This^^^^

[Kairyuu]

I'm back now. Will endeavor to finish reading tomorrow.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont:

We're lynching Lamont. That will happen. He's scummy as fuck, and is only suspecting me because I accused him of being scum, called Mastin town, and was right.

Also, note how he completely ignored my entire first catch-up post, when a large chunk of it was directed at him. Scummy McScumscum needs to die, and quickly too.

Add this as well to the above post.

Lamont

, what do you have to say?

I say that they both are buddies in RL,

Yes we are. Your point?

they have decided they want to lynch me and regardless of what I say it will be scummy. They will deny it but it is true.

Bullshit. We've barely even spoken to each other since this game started, and wouldn't be stupid enough to talk about it outside of the thread either way. Essentially what you're saying is that because magnus and I agree on something and we know each other in rl, we must be plotting against you for our own nefarious purposes. That's the most contrived, bullshit defense I've ever seen. How about Mastin? Was he in on our "scheme" too, even though we don't know him in rl? Is everyone who suspects you "plotting to get you lynched regardless of what you say?"

The post he referenced is such a wall-o-crap "case", I didn't see how anyone could take it seriously.

Address my fucking points. I don't remember seeing where you call ignoring people a scumtell, but magnus said you did, so therefore you are being blatently scummy BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION. Also, calling something crap does not invalidate it by any means. Either address my points or concede them. Those are your only two options. If you ignore them in your next post you have effectively conceded the entire case to be true.

Bolded mine.

Preview edit: Yeah. What magnus said also.

@all: Still working on reading. I just couldn't let that post get by without response.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont:

they have decided they want to lynch me and regardless of what I say it will be scummy.

The wording implies a choice, which cannot be made unknowingly. To decide somethingyou must be aware of the choice. Either you worded that very poorly (as both magnus and myself interpreted it the same way) or you actually wanted to imply deliberate cheating on our parts. If it was the second then it's another point against you in the asshole column, since there is nothing that either of us has done to warrent such an accusation.

Also, I'm giving you one more chance to address all of the cases against you (and calling them crap or saying you already have does not cut it) before I will assume you to be conceding every point that has been leveled against you (this means Mastin, myself, magnus, and anyone I'm missing who have brought cases against you which you then ignored or wrote off as crap). You cannot expect to get away with holding yourself to a different set of scumtells than those you apply to others.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage: If you hold others to scumtells and then commit the same scumtells yourself then it is logical that those who notice will call you out for both being hypocritical and for being scummy based on your own definition of such. It's a good way to get lynched.

And yes, I have recruited a good number of rl friends onto this site. magnus, Isacc, madeofphail, Nightwolf, Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn, fallen angel, Bloody bAndana, and blackcatcontract were all recruited by me. Of those, only Isacc, magnus, and fallen angel spend any decent length of time on site anymore.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. Lamont has now had the opportunity to answer for the cases presented against him and has ignored them when it was clearly stated that to refuse to respond was to accept the cases as true. He has now conceded every point made against him by Mastin, magnus, and myself. He needs to be lynched ASAP.

[Kairyuu]

Lamont, what do you think of ignoring players?

Look, if the two of them want to make a short and concise, well-resoned case I'll answer it. I don't want to have to wade through endless invective and crapologic.

Invective is your MO, scum, and if you wanna claim craplogic then you must explain how it is such. I don't intend to tolerate you ignoring cases made against you simply because you don't feel like responding. The cases are there, and have been there, but left unanswered for, for much of the game thus far. Ignoring them will not make them go away, and will instead continue to affirm my opinion that you have admitted to the scummy behavior that people are accusing you of. Get lynched already.

[Kairyuu]

Based on the above, can you see why its better just to accept their two votes so the village can move on?

First off, there are more than just us two calling for you to answer for the cases against you. Secondly, I am utterly amazed that you don't think that ignoring cases against you won't come back to bite you in the ass. Even if you don't get lynched D1 it will happen eventually, since I have faith that other players in this game will realize how your complete disregard for cases made against you is scummy as hell. You see that the people suspecting you are few, and since you don't seem to realize the speed with which a small number of attackers can grow, you disregard our cases, since you don't feel threatened by us.

I am perfectly content to continue to push for your lynch until either you die or I do, and if it's me, I fully expect that others will step up to press the attack as well.

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage: Lamont obviously has a good deal more time to devote to the game than I do. Besides, if he wants to find

my

case against him he simply needs to view my posts in isolation. I don't have many, and my case is clearly presented in them. It's not that hard.

[Kairyuu]

Mastin was a CRAP player (please see my wiki). At least ABR & Gorrad are playing intelligently & logically.

If you do not stop this RIGHT NOW, I will not rest until you are force replaced. Mastin is dead, and therefore cannot respond to your bullshit ad hom, which means that your continual repetition of these insults towards his play are nothing but slander, and you are being a complete asshat by pushing this issue.

Think about it. How would you feel if you were killed early in a game, and then one or more of the players spent the rest of the game talking about how absolutely terrible your play was for the time you were alive? I bet you would want to be able to speak in your own defense, but you couldn't, due to being dead. That is what you're doing to Mastin right now. I fully expect you to issue him an apology for your extremely rude comments.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. Time to get some more of my catch up done, starting on page 23.

@Spoilum:

I look back on Kairyuu's #477 with concern, principally because he didn't consider the possibility of a specified cause of death (for the uninitiated, this is a heavily-used plot device in Death Note). I cannot fathom why a townie familiar with the Death Note story would dismiss that hypothesis and can only presume there is an ulterior motive.

Given that his death flavor said

shot

, and there are characters in the series that have access to guns, I chose not to extrapolate, and instead went with simple facts. To assume anything else would require assumptions that I am not comfortable with.

In addition to that, if he was killed by a death note, the implications don't make a bit of sense. The rules post specifically states that as soon as a death note enters the possesion of someone pro-town it wil be destroyed. Therefore, if Mastin was killed by a death note, he was killed by either scum or a Shinigami. Why would an anti-town role kill Mastin when so many people were beginning to suspect him? Seems much more like a foolish policy-vig to me.

@Tajo:

Kairyuu -> Mastin supporter. At first glance, townie, what made you so sure Mastin was obvtown?

I may have already addressed this, but it was his play. I liked his logic, and he seemed to be acting in line with the interests of catching and eliminating scum. I didn't necessarily agree with his suspicions of magnus, but they were understandable given magnus' own meta.

@cateraction:

While I think Lamont is scum he makes a decent case on Kairu in post 123.

Please note that nowhere in his entire case does he actually mention anything that can be considered a scumtell. Explain how his case was decent.

Lamont has a good point about Kai finding Mastin obvscum. I, too, felt he was buddying very strongly. The point is equally valid on myk and kise, Lamont is growing more town in my eyes. Maybe Mastin really did rub him the wrong way. But there are other alighments so I don't know. IGMEOY

1. I said he was obvTOWN, not obvSCUM.

2. Let's run through my motivations if I were scum.

I go to the trouble of agreeing with Mastin, and provide my views that he is town, even though he is quite the easy mislynch. I even know that I'll take flak for supporting the top lynch suspect, but I press forward anyway with the intention of making an ally of the most probable lynch of D1.

Motivation analysis is tech.
____

Hmm. Seems zwet has come up with another weird claim. Null tell for him. I don't honestly care if he's being truthful or not, and speculating on it is not going to help. Move on already.

____

@Lamont:

@Kai: Why were you so convinced that death notes cannot be used as gunfire?

See my response to Spoilum.

Ok then I seriously want to know how Kai could of missed this. What do you think about my questions concerning specifying kill methods for notes?

Missed what? How does Light finding a death note in the beginning of the series mean that Mastin was killed by scum? Or a death note even? And how does my not thinking that Mastin was killed by a death note imply that I missed anything?

@Zazie: I've already mentioned why I thought Mastin was obvtown.

Also, what's your point about the wiki stuff in this quote? Do you see it as a tell, and why?
(New question: Are you warning Lamont in this quote? And if so, why?)

I was merely pointing out that Lamont's wiki is a sign of screwed up priorities. He's more concerned with getting people he doesn't like lynched than getting scum lynched.

And no, it wasn't a warning. It was an observation.

@cateraction:

I felt that Zee was making points that fell in line with Mastin while Kai was just agreeing and affirming without making any real contribution.

Really? Can you back this up, because to me it seems like I was providing plenty of my own theories. Hell, for some of the issues we disagreed completely, and for others is was HIM agreeing with ME.

____

Mmk. Now zwet has called his claim a fakeclaim. Still null. It's zwet's zwet-meta, not indicative of alignment methinks.
____

Alrighty then. I'm now at the top of page 33, and need to leave to go clean stuff. I'll hopefully be able to pick back up on this tomorrow.

[Kairyuu]

I'm not gonna be able to get to this game until probably tomorrow night to get more of my catching up done.

Apologies.

[Kairyuu]

@Mod: I would like to resubmit my request that Lamont be force-replaced. He is being blatently rude to Mastin when he can't even defend himself. That is the definition of poor sportsmanship.

Also, I'm V/LA until tomorrow night, what with another grad party today and Fathers Day being tomorrow.

Lamont's behavior is acceptable, if juvenile.

@Lamont: I warned you REPEATEDLY to shut your goddamn mouth about Mastin. If the mod does not replace you this time, then he is saying that your attitude is within the bounds of the game. If it is proven as such, you will have one more chance. A single post to take back what you've said, with the assurance that you will be apologizing via PM immediately. Keep in mind that the site guidelines say this:

You should not make any post, or start any thread, with the intention of abusing, ridiculing, insulting, offending, or upsetting any other user on this site.

You have been blatently disregarding this all game with regards to Mastin, and if the mod decides that this is within the bounds of the game, then expect to get a taste of your own medicine.

[Kairyuu]

V/LA is being extended until tomorrow night. Apologies.

[Kairyuu]

Back.

Tired.

Sleeping now.

Post tomorrow, and I'm setting a 15 page improvement as an absolute minimum for the amount I'll get caught up tomorrow.

[Kairyuu]

@Llama: Ok.

vote: Lamont

myko-wagon is weak from what I have so far. Lamont-lynch is better. Lamont has STILL not addressed accusations against him, but NO ONE seems to want to call him on it except for me and magnus.

[Kairyuu]

unvote

vote: mykonian

You just claimed to have shot someone who you had declared looked town. That doesn't make sense.

[Kairyuu]

*grumble*

Things did not go as planned today (of course, now that we've already redone a living room and a bathroom we have to PAINT again now ). I apologize.

[Kairyuu]

Also.

@Vi: I hope you feel better soon.

[Kairyuu]

Lynching myko is optimal play today methinks. If he's scum, then we have a reasonable chance of hitting a death note if he has one. If he's Shinigami same thing. If he's a town vig then we have a problem, but I don't see that as a very high probability. On the other hand, if he's scum and gets NKed, we need to hope he was killed by a town vig or else all we did was move the death note if he has one, and if he's Shinigami and gets NKed then we have the same situation, except with a much higher probability of the scum keeping any death note he may have.

The situation isn't nearly as simple as people are assuming. We don't really care so much about killing all of the scum. What we care about is actually hitting the death notes. We can win with scum still alive as long as we take out the notes. Therefore, if we assume myko is scum and has a death note, we MUST lynch him, because any other method of death has a lower chance of eliminating the note.

Of course, if he's town then all of that is pointless anyway, given that he wouldn't have a note to take out.

@all: In other news, I've decided to just go with the flow until Night, and then finish catching up then. It's easier that way. If anyone had some pressingly urgent questions that I need to address from the large chunk of the game that I haven't read, then please point it out to me and I'll see what I can do.

[Kairyuu]

And you're surprised a made a good point because . . .?

[Kairyuu]

@myko:

Kai, I forgot you people could be scared of deathnotes, but wouldn't it make sense to wait for tomorrow to see if my intentions are town? You decide, I kill. In case I get killed by someone else, and I would carry a deathnote, wouldn't that mean that the amount of people able to carry a deathnote gets smaller?

While you are correct in that the number of people able to carry them will go down, you are disregarding my other point, the number of deathnotes themselves probably would NOT go down, and given that we're trying to destroy the deathnotes, not eliminate all of the scum, then we should take the opportunity to further our win condition rather than risk letting the one we have in our sights get whisked away by scum. Optimal play is that you die via lynch ASAP.

[Kairyuu]

Note 1: I didn't get around to reading during Night.

Note 2: I don't really care. I'm gonna jump into D2 as if it's a new game entirely.

On to some info.

Mmk. So our N1 deaths were:

Zazie, cateraction, and semioldguy.

Of those, the only one I am not scratching my head about is Zazie. Neither of the other two had contributed much. From this, I am going to draw that Zazie was the scum NK, and that cateraction and semi were killed by Shinigami trying to look pro-town.

Following from this, I believe that we need to reread Zazie in iso, because she may have been onto something that few other people were picking up on, in addition to giving off strong pro-town vibes.

Proceeding with that shortly.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont: Yes, and his second post, which is probably what you are talking about. I disagree, as is quite obvious by the fact that I proposed my own theory. Either Kise is stupid scum that outed himself by pseudo-claiming the kill on semi, or our two theories need to be evaluated seperately to see which one is more likely.


Also, protip for everyone: Since all of the kills that happened appear to have been caused by death notes, we have AT LEAST three of them to destroy still, and it is also likely that the scum have no factional kill, and that they are either currently completely harmless (having no death note), or contain exactly 1 death note at this time (balance issues with giving the scum multiple kills as well as the fact that they can switch off each Night if they want to make it unlikely that they would be given more than 1 to start with). If we are dealing with the former, then the scum can be safely ignored while we hunt for the Shinigami. If we are dealing with the latter (more likely in my opinion, given my theory on the kills) then the scum with the death note will be more difficult to lynch than other scum and/or townies and/or Shinigami, given that the scum will be EXTREMELY hesitant to bus the partner with the death note.

Next, and this is a bit late, but it's something to note, myko refuses to self-vote as town. This is a meta I have on him from Open 145, when he was my Lover partner, and I thought we had broken the game and could get ourselves lynched as part of it. He blatently refused to self-vote. However, he self-voted D1, probably in the hopes that he could get lucky and salvage his death note after his lynch.

Following from that, we must take note that just because we have taken myko's death note, we CANNOT ignore him for the rest of the game. As he is a Shinigami, he is an eligible target for receiving a death note from another player, so if the scum or another Shinigami decide that he is a safe place to store their note temporarily or permanently then they could give it to him. Keep this in mind as we progress. myko is not to be ignored.

Preview edit:

@Vi: But I

like

when my name is abbreviated as Kai, though your preference of Yuu is fine too, though counterintuitive. The only abbreviation I don't like is Kair, because it forces an incorrect pronunciation.

Also, please provide your case on me (and "lurking" doesn't work. I don't purposefully lurk as any alignment. I've simply been having trouble keeping up with this game).

[Kairyuu]

@Kise:

@Kai - how did I out myself as SOG's killer?

I never said you did that. Scumslip, possibly? The wording makes it seem as if you have been caught and are wondering how your accuser found out.

FoS: Kise

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage and Lamont: No. Flat out no. If we have the ability to locate a death note then we will NOT be giving it to a confirmed Shinigami. We will be destroying it as fast as we possibly can. We do NOT know what happens to the death note myko holds when he fulfills his win con, and we do not know if he is even telling the truth about his win condition. It is very possible that he is lying about his win con, and wants to take a death note late in the game just so that he can pass it off, hiding it from us again extremely late in the game when it might be enough to ruin our chances. We will NOT be attempting to give him a death note at ANY point.

[Kairyuu]

@Kise: I apologize. I thought I remembered typing it, but then when I looked at my post I couln't find it, so I figured I was remembering wrong. Guess I wasn't. Meh. I didn't actually consider that bit to be likely when I typed up the post. It's use as a counterpoint was to illustrate that if you had done that as scum it would indicate extreme foolishness, which I would not expect from you (or anyone else for that matter). Essentially the "scum would have to be really stupid to do that, as it benefits no one but town, therefore it is not a scumtell."

However, the vibes I'm getting off of your initial question post are definitely scummy. Not enough for a vote, but something I will be keeping an eye on.

@magnus: Do you think that the scum faction was given multiple death notes? If so, how many, and which kills do you think came from them? If not, do you think they have a factional kill that would make them willing to give up their death note? Following from that, if you think that they have a factional kill, then do you think one of the three kills was this factional kill? Which one? If you don't think that they have a factional kill, then why would they give away their death note, the only source of killing power they have, just to give it to myko?

That said,

vote: Lamont

Thought I did that earlier. Reasons haven't changed. He's admitted to everything leveled against him D1 by refusing to address any of it, even after repeated demands for responses, besides the fact that he's scummy by his own tells in ignoring the arguments in the first place.

[Kairyuu]

@Gorrad: I agree with magnus here. I assume that, like in the series, all death notes are the same. Given that when the mod quoted that text he titled it The Rules of Death, I assume that the same rules apply to each death note in the game.

It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

[Kairyuu]

Agreeing with Vi here. Kise gets major scummy points for that post.

unvote

vote: Kise

[Kairyuu]

FoS: Stepho

That post gives me a baaaad feeling.

[Kairyuu]

@Gorrad:

I am saying that if Mastin WAS genuine on his claim as Shinigami, then that

would

only result in a new Kira by the time D2 rolled around.

Please take note that Kise demonstrates he knows that Mastin's killer is not town, meaning that either HE is the killer, and played the fool with the modkill speculation D1 or he is a member of the scumteam that did it (with the same implication about the speculation).

Hmm. Actually, come to think of it,

unvote

@all: Kise almost definitely does not have a death note, which means, scum or not, we don't need to lynch him now. Priority is hitting one of the remaining death notes. Lynching Kise will not accomplish this.

Reasons for this are that if Kise is the one who killed Mastin then he did not use a death note to do it, as death notes only kill at Night, and if he is part of the scumteam that did it (the assumption of a factional kill, during the Day no less, which I do not support, is required for this to be true) then he could possibly have it himself, but the odds are extremely low, as, again, that would require the scum to have a factional daykill.

So, in essence, Kise-wagon is pointless, regardless of his alignment, as it will not further our win con to lynch him.

Back to Lamont. Much better lynch pickings there.

vote: Lamont

[Kairyuu]

@Gorrad: Yes. I did just say that we don't need to kill scum. Killing scum without death notes does not further our win con. Logic says that Kise does not hold a death note, and therefore is a BAD LYNCH. My preference would be to find the scum WITH the note, and kill them. If that happens, then the scum will be rendered harmless at Night, allowing us to focus on lynching Shinigami with notes, and on the off chance that a scum manages to get another death note, they will be quite obvious, since they'll be forced to mindlessly wagon in the hopes that they can get one. We just cross-reference wagon jumpers to nab all of the scum if we actually end up having to do that.

I'm not overly concerned that you find me scummy for my views. Your logic is flawed, to put it simply. If we lynch scum, and they don't have a death note, we don't get any closer to winning. If we lynch scum who DO have a death note, we get closer to winning, because the likelyhood of destroying the note is HIGH. Lynching non-holding scum merely to improve our odds of destroying the note when we DO hit a holder is a waste of time. Destroying notes>lynching scum. If scum =/= note, then lynching is suboptimal. Make a note and then move on.

I repeat, Kise cannot have a death note. Lynching him is sub-optimal regardless of alignment.

[Kairyuu]

I find it hilarious that I'm trying to stop the lynch of someone I am reasonably sure is scum of some sort. Definitely liking this mechanic.

[Kairyuu]

Based on Kise's own words he cannot be holding one, since the likelyhood is that he was the one who killed Mastin, during the Day, which can't be done with a note. Therefore he doesn't have one. It's simple. I refuse to support the lynch of someone who would not advance our win con, scum or not.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Giving some more thought to myko's claimed win con leads me to believe that any Shinigami with a similar one (getting to Day X with a note) would do well to NOT use theirs, as all kills speed the end of the game. Therefore, it is

possible

that any Shinigami in that situation thought of that, and didn't kill N1. We may have more than 3 notes left to destroy if that is the case. Also, if any of them DO have that type of win con, optimal play would be to stop using the note they have, to increase the probability of getting to the Day that they need to. This is a win/win for both town and them, since it increases the length of the game for the Shinigami, and decreases the number of possible town deaths/Night.

@Lamont: He stated definitively that if Mastin was telling the truth about being Shinigami then there would be a new Kira by D2. This means that he knows who Mastin's killer was. This narrows it down to either him, or a scumgroup he is part of, because that is the only way he would know for sure who the killer was. The only way he could possibly be holding a death note would be if it was a scumbuddy who killed Mastin, and Kise is the one holding the scumteam's note. I am discounting this possibility, since the assumption that must be made is that the scum not only have a factional kill, but that that kill is a daykill. I would put the likelyhood of this at about 1%. That leaves only the first possibility, that he himself is the killer.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. The quote read like it had been made after Mastin had been killed. That does kinda blow up my theory. Back to square one.

unvote

vote: Kise

Since my theory is no longer valid I have no reason to believe that Kise, who is still likely scum, is not holding a note, so I no longer have a problem supporting his lynch. Context is important.

@magnus: Regardless of the fact that my theory about Kise no longer holds, my opinions still do. If we end up finding likely scum, but have strong evidence to support that they are not in possession of a death note, they should NOT be lynched. We should simply make a note of who they are for future reference, and try to find someone who does have a note.

Are you trying to say that if you knew someone was scum, but also knew that they didn't have a death note, you would try to get them lynched over someone else who you suspected to have a death note? That does not advance the town's win condition, and is therefore sub-optimal play using the mechanic in this particular game.

Also, your logic fails to apply the same way that Gorrad's does. It is far more efficient to destroy all of the death notes BEFORE whittling down the number of scum than it is to eliminate the scum and then go after the remaining notes. Also, the maximum number of Days during which all possible anti-town roles possess death notes is 2, assuming that all of the shinigami and the one remaining scum are in possession of notes. Then, if we lynch the scum we get a 100% chance of destroying the note. The following Day's lynch of one of the Shinigami will also work 100%, but after that there would be less notes than Shinigami, and we will always have a failure chance of increasing size as the noteless shinigami hop on every lynch wagon all the while killing us off at Night. Better to destroy the notes fast while we have cannon fodder than to wait until the scum start having good odds of getting a death note from any given note holder lynch.

[Kairyuu]

That's not what I'm arguing though magnus. My point was that if we think we've found scum then we should lynch them in the hopes of them having a death note, but if there is strong evidence to support both them being scum AND them NOT having a death note, then lynching them would not be in our best interest. Instead, taking note of who they are for a later lynch (when they might have been given one) would be a MUCH better play. That is the situation I believed we had with Kise. I am still reasonably certain of his being scum, but now there is no evidence to support that he is not holding a death note, so I support lynching him once again.

[Kairyuu]

@Kise: Claim in your next post or die. It's as simple as that.

[Kairyuu]

Also, everybody take note that myko acting exactly as expected. For the rest of the game, we should consider the votes required to lynch to be X less than the given number, where X is the number of Shinigami who have had their death notes taken and burned (at this point, X=1, obviously).

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Interesting.

vote: Lamont

@Kmd: Nope. That wasn't me. If I had daykilling powers I would definitely have killed off Lamont over Mastin D1.

[Kairyuu]

@Kmd: Aye, but Mastin was the only other daykill. I highly doubt that Gorrad is right, especially since the gunshot flavor is consistant with Mastin's death.

[Kairyuu]

Yes, but they must be SUBMITTED at Night. They can kill during the Day, but the number of posts must me specified at Night. Therefore, unless the killer used the same flavor as the D1 kill (which couldn't have been done with a death note) to try to disguise it AND managed such impeccable timing for the post specification, the kill was committed with a plain old gun, not a death note. Occam's Razor says my theory is more likely.

Also, if you are right, then Mastin's killer still hasn't shot, so there would probably be another daykill today if you are somehow correct.

[Kairyuu]

Yes I am. myko had a death note. According to the rules of the death note, myko COULD NOT have submitted the kill on Mastin unless he also has a built-in kill

in addition to

his claimed note-cop ability. He was fakeclaiming dayvig.

@myko: Just to confirm, you were lying about killing Mastin, correct?

[Kairyuu]

@MBL: We don't actually have any idea what Phily's role/alignment was. e was modkilled.

That said, I wholeheartedly support your vote.

@Llama: The case on Stepho is nice. I agree with pretty much all of it, but I think that Lamont is a far better lynch choice for today.

[Kairyuu]

Oy. Stop talking about (and friggen quoting) ONGOING GAMES! We've already had one modkill. We don't need more.

[Kairyuu]

Hey, I'm dead anyway.

so can I propose a zwet policy lynch?

I wouldn't mind that.

I would. It would detract from lynching Lamont-scum. Lynching Lamont-scum is a good idea, and that is what we're doing.

[Kairyuu]

@myko: You call 6 votes "not a lot?" If WLC hadn't just unvoted it would be 7. It's the biggest wagon at the moment, so you're probably wrong.

[Kairyuu]

@myko: Why? Do you have reason to believe he does not hold a death note? If not, I can see no reason why you would not be on the wagon in the hopes of getting one.

@Benmage: If he flips town then I was wrong. Simple as that. I doubt it will happen, but on the off chance that it does it just means I need to reevaluate some of my reads.

[Kairyuu]

@myko: My case has nothing to do with that. My case was presented D1 via my 2-3 catch-up posts as well as the early stages before Mastin was shot. Given that he has either denied doing things he's been accused of (blatant ad hom) or ignored the cases against him entirely. He even stated flat out that he was going to ignore everything I brought against him "for the good of the town." He's scummy as hell, and needs to be lynched pronto.

[Kairyuu]

unvote

vote: Stepho

Every post he makes he just gets scummier. I actually have him as higher on my scumlist than Lamont right now, which is surprising to me.

[Kairyuu]

Grr. I don't like millers, but tajo and magnus are correct in their assessment, and Lamont is, once again, proving his scumminess. Don't really have much else to say. The Stepho lynch is much anticipated, and nothing else is really noteworthy at the moment.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm.

unvote
vote: MafiaSSK

Die fakeclaiming scum die.

-goes to count up the size of the wagon-

This makes 8 votes. L-3. I'm totally comfortable with this lynch right now.

[Kairyuu]

SSK is tomorrow's play.

unvote
vote: Stepho

Will answer questions later.

[Kairyuu]

@Wey:

Especially Kairyuu is opportunistic with his 'SSK is tomorrow's play'. That is standard scum text. Jump on a bandwagon, and already highlight another player that's voted for a lot to go after next day.

. . .

I was voting SSK. I switched over because of deadline necessity, but still consider SSK to be high priority.

unvote
vote: MafiaSSK

[Kairyuu]

@myko: He's lyyyyiiiing. This much is quite obvious. But meh. Both he and SSK are scum. I don't care which order we lynch them in. Curious as to why you're not helping though. I would assume you'd want a death note if you could get one.

Oh. By the way. Can you communicate with anyone at Night myko? Llama seems to think that Shinigami can, so I figure I may as well ask our resident apple-lover himself.

[Kairyuu]

@Gorrad: See the first 2 sentences of 2827. It's quite obvious he's caught in a lie. However, this is not a 1-1, since SSK is fakeclaiming too. Both are scum. I don't care which we lynch, but we have to hurry up and pick a goddamn wagon before deadline hits in THREE DAYS!! I'm not No Lynching when we have two guarenteed scum sitting in our laps.

[Kairyuu]

@Stepho:

I have only seen my own role PM and one other player's. Might as well be clear.

Hmm. So, since this was a Day Start, you've only had one Night to do anything, and you therefore cannot have both recruited and investigated someone by this point in the game. Hence, YOU'RE LYING.

[Kairyuu]

@Stepho: Ok. Let me make this abundantly clear.

D1, Group consists of:
Stepho

Night 1 options:
Recruit

Investigate

D2, Group consists of:
Stepho
XXXXX

You've only had one phase for actions. How then, were you able to perform two actions, when you were quite clear in stating that you can't? Don't you get it? To an outsider, your claim makes NO SENSE, and the only logical conclusion is that YOU'RE LYING. So, unless you can come forward with some big reveal that allows you to meshthe two conflicting scenerios, it is quite apparent that you're lying through your teeth.

[Kairyuu]

I refuse to share anything else about what I know, and I ask that no one else speculate in public about it. Surely there are others who understand ways that everything I said might make sense (and reasons that I might not want to go into more detail), even if Kairyuu cannot.

-twitch-
-twitch-

Are you really this stupid? You have provided NO REASON for ANYONE to believe your claim, because the way you made it CONTRADICTS ITSELF. Unless you can provide reasons WHY your claim DOES NOT contradict itself, you cannot be believed. I am trying to HELP YOU if you're town. Refusing to share the other information that you supposedly have is not only anti-town, it makes it IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE YOUR CLAIM.

You need to look at this from an outsider's point of view. Nothing you've claimed is provable at the moment, and even appears contradictory. You need to either fix that problem, or agree that you screwed up your fakeclaim and get lynched already.

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. Benmage pretty much just confessed to being a Shinigami. Time to die.

unvote
vote: benmage

We either lynch him now or risk scum taking the death note he's worried about protecting.

@all:

I repeat. Benmage has confessed to being a Shinigami in his questions about how a Shinigami can hang onto their death notes. We need to lynch him before the scum have a chance to take it

@Gorrad:

What I want to know is what happens if a townie is on his own lynch wagon. Is he included in the odds of finding/destroying the note?

I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic here. Why would a townie have a note in the first place? It would be destroyed instantly, so they would never have it while in the process of being lynched.

[Kairyuu]

@TheAdmiral:

So...hypothetically if shingami were to hammer themselves, would they be in the runnings for the dropped DN?

Right here. He wants to know if there would be a chance for him to keep his death note if he self-votes. He's Shinigami with a death note. We need to lynch him NOW before the scum take it.

@magnus: We have a near guaranteed death note hit if we lynch Benmage, and if we don't lynch him, the scum have a high likelyhood of taking it without us knowing. If you hesitate then we lose the chance we have. If absolutely necessary we can switch back to SSK to avoid a No-Lynch, but that should be done only as a LAST RESORT. I'm not giving up a death note to the scum because of people being INDECISIVE!

[Kairyuu]

I'll be severely LA until Thursday night. This game will be my top priority on the 1-2 times I'm able to get online.

[Kairyuu]

Interesting.

vote: mykonian

If we assume that magnus, who's role was one of the Kiras from the series, was holding a death note (I find this likely based on the fact that he was under little suspicion, so his lynch was not likely). Given that we were not informed of a death note being destroyed, the Shinigami who killed magnus (it must be a Shinigami, since the kill was obviously a death note) would have passed it off to the only person who was a known safe zone for it. mykonian.

My guess is that the note was given to mykonian as a storage point, so that if the Shinigami who killed magnus loses their note, but still has a kill (assuming myko is telling the truth that he had a 1-shot kill, and that the others do too) they can use their kill on myko to get one back.

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl: Welcome. Good seeing you again after my utter failure in MS3. Hopefully this one goes a bit better.

Ah, but like I said, magnus was looking rather pro-town, so even if he didn't start with the scum's note (I assume they had one between them) he would have been a good transfer person to hold onto it, since the risk of his lynch was low.

[Kairyuu]

Kairyuu, magnus

died of a heart attack

. If the scum had given him a Death Note, they obviously wouldn't have killed him! Either there's a serial killer with a Note, or magnus was some sort of traitor/ally role and the scum didn't know his alignment. The latter case would fit the flavor - in the series he was recruited by whatever the shinigami other than Ryuk's name was, after Light gave up his Note.

One word. Shinigami. There are multiple, and one would assume that most/all of them hold notes. They are not SKs per se, since their win cons are strange, but they are not town aligned. Since he was scum, and killed by a death note, he was 100% guarenteed to have been killed by a Shinigami who still had their note. Following from that, if he

did

have the scum's note, the Shinigami who killed him would have been given the note, and, since no one can hold more than 1 death note, the Shinigami would be forced to give it away. Since Shinigami are unlikely to know the identities of other Shinigami or the scumgroup, especially if myko's comments on the matter are to be believed, the ONLY place where the Shinigami could send the note and know that it wouldn't be destroyed on receipt would be myko, the confirmed Shinigami.

[Kairyuu]

@Gorrad:

'm going to start off with a nice, solid Vote: L_C. You should have died two days ago.

As much as I hate to say it, Lamont is almost definitely town. magnus does not bus, like, ever. That he was attacking Lamont so strongly makes it highly unlikely that Lamont is scum. magnus is like me. He likes to keep his team intact as long as possible, and bussing is just not an option unless the lynch is inevitable, which Lamont's definitely was not. I am willing to call Lamont very likely town at this point.

[Kairyuu]

Kairyuu, magnus

died of a heart attack

. If the scum had given him a Death Note, they obviously wouldn't have killed him! Either there's a serial killer with a Note, or magnus was some sort of traitor/ally role and the scum didn't know his alignment. The latter case would fit the flavor - in the series he was recruited by whatever the shinigami other than Ryuk's name was, after Light gave up his Note.

One word. Shinigami. There are multiple, and one would assume that most/all of them hold notes. They are not SKs per se, since their win cons are strange, but they are not town aligned. Since he was scum, and killed by a death note, he was 100% guarenteed to have been killed by a Shinigami who still had their note. Following from that, if he

did

have the scum's note, the Shinigami who killed him would have been given the note, and, since no one can hold more than 1 death note, the Shinigami would be forced to give it away. Since Shinigami are unlikely to know the identities of other Shinigami or the scumgroup, especially if myko's comments on the matter are to be believed, the ONLY place where the Shinigami could send the note and know that it wouldn't be destroyed on receipt would be myko, the confirmed Shinigami.

Hmm, you're right. So,

if

he had a note, it's probably with mykonian now.

Mhmm. And if it's there, we want it gone NOW, before it can be taken from him and sent somewhere else.

[Kairyuu]

I like Kay.

With the exception, why do you think Lammont is town?

Why thank you. I like you too tajo.

I think he's town because I highly doubt magnus would have bussed him like that if they were partners. He's never done it from what I know off the top of my head of on-site games, and he's literally never done it in the many face to face games I've played with him. I consider this a strong enough meta to base my whole read on. Which sucks, cuz I really wanted Lamont dead.

[Kairyuu]

I so hate "meta", which is why I think I'm playing newbie games from now on. Basing reads on "meta" is basically giving in to skilled players who will change their playstyle.

I'm not speculating on whether or not Lamont is town...but I must say I am completely unimpressed with Kairyuu's play in this game. I'm sure that makes me "stupid".

First bit is meh. Newbie games mean you're gonna be dealing with people who have no clue what they're doing though, making tells much less consistant.

Second bit I have to agree with you on. I haven't been overly impressed by my own play in this game either. Then again, you haven't exactly had a great game either, considering that you were scummy enough to be forced to claim.

@all: STOP F***ING VOTING LAMONT ALREADY. HE'S NOT SCUM.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Just thought of something. myko claimed that the gunned down flavor came from him D1. I see no reason why he couldn't have been lying about it being 1-shot. If Light didn't have a death note (he appears to have been a SK) I will eat my hat. Which means, myko ALMOST DEFINITELY has one now.

vote: myko

[Kairyuu]

Mmk. I just counted up the votes, and with the new lynch count, Lamont is L-3. I'm not letting this wagon come to fruition. I didn't want to have to do this, but it's time for me to claim.

I'm a cop of sorts. Beginning N2 I get to check someone each Night to see if they're talking to anyone. I checked Lamont. He was not talking to anyone. Hence, he cannot be Mafia. This does not necessarily rule out Shinigami, but myko claims that prior to losing his death note he was able to talk anonymously with someone. If this is true, it means that, even if Lamont is Shinigami, he DOES NOT HAVE A NOTE. We're not lynching him.

Oh, and there's a 10% chance that my target will be alerted of my presence and told my identity. This does not stop my investigation.

Rolename: Stephen Gevanni. I'm a total badass.

We can lynch myko nao. kthxbai

[Kairyuu]

@zwet: You should vote myko. He's got a death note. Trust me, it's a good idea.

[Kairyuu]

@Stepho: Hold on. I just realized something. Can't believe I missed it. You're totally scum. The role you claimed is completely gamebreaking. If you are telling the truth, you could just end up recruiting scum and then nabbing the entire scumteam when the complete PM is revealed to you. That is FAR from balanced. You're lying.

@all: Stepho is very likely to be sum of some sort. However, at the same time, myko is almost definitely holding a death note right now. Therefore, myko should get higher priority.

I'll get to answering questions later.

[Kairyuu]

Dammit.

Unvote

I think we all need to look hard at the SSK wagon.

Alternately, we can look hard at (read: lynch) mykonian, who has about a 75% chance to have a death note right now, possibly higher, depending on some research I need to do.

[Kairyuu]

Ok and if this is not true then it will have the effect of a no-lynch right?

Yes, but if we don't lynch him, and he has a death note, the scum WILL take it tonight, and we'll lose our chances at it.

[Kairyuu]

I've been away, and have missed some stuff. I'll post tomorrow after work when I'm not functioning on 2 hours of sleep in a 48 hour timeframe.

[Kairyuu]

@Steph: You do realize how blatently obvious everything is now that zwet has claimed, right? Telling people not to mention the "breadcrumbs" is pointless. I don't even know what breadcrumbs you are talking about, but I still know exactly what's going on, and I'd be surprised if a single player hasn't figured it out yet.

That said, I am considering both you and zwet confirmed town now, so I'll respect your wishes.

(sidenote regarding my last post: Yes, I did just get home from work. Working an unnanounced double shift is annoying.)

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl:

My additions are in

blue

Scum

Cuddly Bear

ortolan

MafiaSSK (Dead town)

Starbuck

mykonian

(Shinigami)

magnus_orion

(Dead neutral)

Kise

(Dead town)

WeyounsLastClone

(Prob town)

Kairyuu (please do not abbreviate this name as "Kai")
Benmage?

(Modkilled)

populartajo?

cateraction

(Dead town)

MrBuddyLee?

Town

Stephoscope?

(Prob town)

ZEEnon

Xylthixlm (Town)

ZazieR

(Dead town)

Lamont_Cranston
LlamaFluff

Spolium

ThAdmiral

(Dead town)

Gorrad? (Gorrad almost looks Town to me; I have no idea what to do)
Kmd4390

No signal, step away from the carpeted wall

Everyone else

=
zwetschenwasser (Prob town)

millar13

Knight of Cydonia (

Mod: Please update first post

)
DeathNote
semioldguy (Dead town)

Vi's scumbuddies are probably distributed between the groups (I learned this analysis trick from DGB). I expect one in the "No signal" group, one in the "Scum" group, and the rest in the "Town" group.

There are only two people left in the "No signal" group who aren't prob-town. Both of them have a good chance of being scumbuddies with Vi.

There's four people left in the "Scum" group, plus mykonian was in there, so there's at most one left there and maybe none.

That leaves four people left in the "Town" group who have a moderate chance to be scum.

So:

High chance of scum

DeathNote
Knight of Cydonia

Moderate chance of scum

Lamont_Cranston
LlamaFluff
Gorrad
Kmd4390

Low chance of scum

Starbuck
Kairyuu
populartajo
MrBuddyLee

Umm. You do realize that anything Vi said cannot be used to find scumbuddies right? You know, because he didn't have any.

[*]After a player dies, that player's name will be revealed. Their role alignment will be given by color. All vote counts will be modified so that their name reflects their alignment. The colors are as follows:

Light Yagami,

Pro-Kira,

Shinigami,

and

anti-Kira.

Note that Light is in a section of his own. It is EXTREMELY probable that Light was a Serial Killer.

Can we lynch myko now?

[Kairyuu]

Oh, and magnus isn't a dead neutral. He's dead Mafia. Pro-Kira is the Mafia based on the flip colors.

[Kairyuu]

I meant that once they die and are revealed as Shinigami, then they can be ignored. We all know they are anti town and once they no longer have a deathnote, then there is no reason to worry about them. Yes they will still be able to vote and talk to us but we know what side that persons on so we have no reason to trouble ourself over him/her.

Read the rules of the death notes that were posted after we lynched mykonian (a Shinigami). Death notes can be transferred from one player to another. A Shinigami who has lost their note cannot be ignored, because they may recieve possession of another note at any time. This is what I believe has happened to mykonian as of now. When Vi was killed, but the note that almost certainly should have been in his possession was NOT destroyed, it means that it was transferred to another player.

If we assume that the kill was made using a death note, then the holder of said death note would need to pass it to someone else, and since the only player alive that has a 100% certainty of recieving a death note WITHOUT destroying it is mykonian, the most logical destination for the death note taken from Vi would be mykonian, and lynching him means we have a rather high chance of destroying it.

On the other hand, if we assume that the kill was made without a death note, we are in a difficult situation, as it means that the killer is NOT pro-town, and has successfully obtained a death note in addition to inherent killing abilities. Following from this, mykonian is still the best lynch for today, because while being wagoned D1 he CLAIMED THE SHOOTING KILL. Therefore, there is an above average likelyhood that mykonian is holding a death note right now regardless of who killed Vi or how they did it.

Add to that the fact that if I'm right the scum will definitely be submitting their kill for myko tonight, and therefore taking his newly acquired death note and hiding it again among the rest of the players. That is to say, if we don't lynch him TODAY, then we will lose any chance of destroying the death note he probably has right now.

[Kairyuu]

Where has KMD been?

And Kai, are you basing post 3389 on the rules of Death Note that I found on the Death Note Wiki?

No. I'm basing them on the Rules of Death that the mod posted in post 1991, on page 80.

[Kairyuu]

Lamont: Vi was killed, not lynched, so the Note goes to his killer.

Another thing... magnus_orion, pro-Kira, was killed by a Death Note last night. So either Vi was an SK, killed magnus, and was killed by magnus's mafia, or there are at least three scum factions.

Mod: What happens if the player who kills someone who is holding a Death Note is already dead when the kill happens?

No I was querying Kai's theory which stated first that Vi was killed with a note and THEN that he might of been killed by our vig.

I said that it doesn't matter who killed him, or how. The fact that his note was not destroyed means it had to go somewhere, and given that he was KILLED and not lynched, it cannot have gone to anyone but his killer. If he was killed by a note then mykonian has the note now almost definitely. If the killer was our mysterious dayvig then it means that said dayvig is anti-town. It is possible that this player is now holding Vi's note, but even assuming that, myko has claimed that the gunshot kills are his, so it doesn't matter which way you look at it, myko has quite a high chance of having a death note right now. I, for one, am not willing to let the chance to destroy another one slip away.

zwetchenwasser -1 (populartajo)
mykonian -3 (Kairyuu, zwetschenwasser, Llamafluff )
WeyounsLastClone -1 (Kmd4390)
Kmd4390 -1 (xylthixlm)

Not voting: mykonian, Kmd4390 Gorrad, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, WeyounsLastClone, Knight of Cydonia, Lamont_Cranston

Greetings, I am L.

With 15 alive, it's 8 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

So Vi's note obviously didn't end up with a townie, which means its in the hands of scum or mykonian. It is not definite that it ended up with mykonian.

Exactly, but take a look at what you just said. It's either "with the scum" where none of the scum are known for sure, as well as the fact that any one of them could be holding it right now, or "with mykonian" where we know exactly which player to lynch in order to destroy it, and have a very limited window of opportunity with which to do so, as if it is currently "with mykonian" at the moment, it will definitely be "with the scum" by the end of N3. The best lynch choice BY FAR is mykonian for today.

[Kairyuu]

So Vi's note obviously didn't end up with a townie, which means its in the hands of scum or mykonian. It is not definite that it ended up with mykonian.

Exactly, but take a look at what you just said. It's either "with the scum" where none of the scum are known for sure, as well as the fact that any one of them could be holding it right now, or "with mykonian" where we know exactly which player to lynch in order to destroy it, and have a very limited window of opportunity with which to do so, as if it is currently "with mykonian" at the moment, it will definitely be "with the scum" by the end of N3. The best lynch choice BY FAR is mykonian for today.

There is no reason for them to wait until N4 to use it; they would just give it to one of their Kira buddies and use it N3.

We have one of these situations:

1. Vi was killed by a SK of some sort without a death note. Said SK now has Vi's note.

2. Vi was killed by a SK of some sort or a Shinigami, and the kill was done using a death note. Said SK or Shinigami would have to pass it off to someone else, and myko is the only way they know that the note wont be destroyed on contact.

3. Vi was killed by the scum faction. Vi's death note is now in the hands of the scum faction.

Of the 3 possibilities, 1 can be almost entirely discounted as well as the SK portion of 2 based on the fact that Vi himself was a SK, and the likelyhood of another one being present is low.

That leaves us with 2 and 3. Either he was killed by a Shinigami with a death note (or myko with his claimed shooting kill) or by the scum faction. I'd put the likelyhood of the Shinigami kill MUCH higher than the scum faction, since if it was the scum faction, the scum have a factional daykill. Highly unlikely. Even if you assume the two exactly equal, it means that myko has a 50% chance of having a death note right now. That is CONSIDERABLY better odds than we could get with ANY other lynch at this point.

[Kairyuu]

I'm just not sure on this mykonian lynch though. We aren't sure if he has the Death Note. What if he doesn't and we waste today? I know that the counter-argument is: what if he does. I think that's currently where we are at.

If he does and we lynch him:

Death note destroyed (high likelyhood).

Town win condition advanced.


If he doesn't and we lynch him:

No lynch.

One wasted Day.

If he does and we don't lynch him:

Scum take the death note.

Town win condition made more difficult to achieve.

If he doesn't and we don't lynch him:

No effect on game.


Also, looking at just the basic probability here, the odds say that myko's lynch gives us a considerably better chance to destroy a death note than any other lynch would.

@Whoever was talking about the missing note kill: Another possibility is that Benmage was holding one when he was modkilled, and that it was destroyed. I'm hoping that this is the scenerio we have.

[Kairyuu]

@Kairyuu, please answer why you only had a N2 action/result, and not a N1 action?

Also, if zwet can check people talking at night, and Kai can too, I'm inclined to think one of them is scum.

I mentioned this in my claim. I didn't get to start investigating until N2. There was no flavor reason for this given in my role pm. If I had to take a guess, I would say that I was delayed because I showed up so late in the series. That's just a guess though.

Also, zwet claimed tracker. I claimed pseudo-cop. There's a pretty big difference.

[Kairyuu]

Nighttalk-cop, 10% chance of alerting,

and

you don't get to start until N2? I call bullshit.

unvote, vote Kairyuu

Why? Also, I claimed all of that in my original claim post. ALSO, if I'm scum I'm a complete idiot.

1. I was not forced to claim by a wagon.
2. I claimed to protect another player.
3. My claim is far more complicated than I would normally come up with on my own. I very much prefer the simple vanilla claim as scum. It's easier.

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl:

So your scumbuddies helped you?

Totally. /sarcasm

I am not so new as I would need assistance in crafting a fakeclaim. Like I said, I prefer vanilla claims as scum. If you're not in a lynch position, they generally draw much less scrutiny.

Also, address the other two. Why would I claim like that as scum?

[Kairyuu]

Why would I claim like that as scum?

So you could argue you wouldn't claim like that as scum. Why wouldn't you claim like that as scum?

Because it is foolish and puts me in a terrible position. If I'm scum I've claimed with no provocation to defend someone who may or may not be scum with me, and claimed an information role that does a specific thing which, based on Stepho's claim, multiple non-scum people can do as well, and the number of those people has the potential to increase over time. I will now somehow have to make sure I provide results every Day that are actually correct when I could be called out as a liar at any time if I get a single result wrong. It puts me in a very BAD position if I'm scum. The risk is not even close to worth the reward if I'm believed, because even if I am I might become the target of Shinigami.

[Kairyuu]

If I'm scum I've claimed with no provocation to defend someone who may or may not be scum with me

Wait, what? If you're scum you should know who's scum with you. That, and your comment about not having anyone to help you make a fake claim, sound like you're assuming that the scum in this game don't know who the other scum are ...

...

...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

That's . . . not what I said. Operating under the hypothetical that I am scum, I may have been defending a random townie, or I may have been defending a scumbuddy, hence, may or may not be scum with me. You're jumping to conclusions.

[Kairyuu]

V/LA for today and tomorrow

[Kairyuu]

Tajo is an acceptable lynch. I'm out of suspects, and deadline is fast approaching, so . . . yeah. Not optimal, but better than a No Lynch.

vote: tajo

@WLC: Are you serious? Please explain to me why claiming when someone I had investigated as probably innocent was at L-3 from an extremely rapid, serious wagon, was unnecessary, and also, how is is scummy to CLAIM COP to protect your INNOCENT investigation from being lynched?

@all: This dayvigging is beginning to seriously piss me off. This is the third Day out of 3 that the lynch candidate was shot reasonably late in the Day, which threw off all of the town's momentum and essentially forced us to lynch a suboptimal candidate. The deadline is a powerful tool for the scum. We need to start being far more efficient in our lynches to prepare for the likelyhood that our first attempt at one will end up shot down before we can lynch them.

[Kairyuu]

Kairyuu, why are you annoyed about the town essentially getting two lynches a day?

Because we're not getting anything like that. We already know that the dayvig is almost certainly not town, so the first "lynch" is completely wasted. If it would have yielded a destroyed death note, it now ends in a rehidden one, and we are none the wiser. Also, the second lynch of the Day was far from optimal except for D1, which gives us a considerably lower chance to hit a death note at all with our "two lynches."

[Kairyuu]

Alright. Just a note. I moved into my dorm yesderday, and will have spotty internet access AT BEST for around 1-2 weeks, so don't expect much from me at all during that time. I'll make an effort to post, but I'm not making any promises.

vote: Starbuck

Claim makes this an obvious choice. We will be destroying Llama's note when we lynch Starbuck, so it's a win win.

@Xyl: Did you talk to anyone last Night? If so, tell us who, and explain the connection (i.e. claim).

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl: Really now, because my investigation just turned up that you DID talk to someone last Night. Want to explain to me why you lied now? Did you doubt my claim that much that you'd be willing to take that risk, Mr. Scum?

@all: Xyl and I are now in a 1-1 situation. Exactly one of us is town, and the other is scum. Keep this in mind. This is not a guarenteed hit on a death note, so it probably shouldn't be looked into today, but this should definitely be kept in mind for future reference. I'd be happy lynching either Llama or Starbuck. Both have claims pointing to scum. Methinks that Starbuck is a better lynch than Llama for today, but I'd be willing to switch if necessary.

Also, regardless of what we do, we MUST LYNCH AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. If we don't, the dayvig/SK/whatever will TAKE AWAY THE CHANCE TO HIT LLAMA'S NOTE. Keep this in mind.

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl: The way it looks is that it's an active conversation that you were having last Night. However, I've PMed the mod for clarification.

@all: There was a good point made about Llama probably giving away his death note because he expected an investigation. However, this puts us in EXACTLY the same situation as yesterday. Who would he give it to? That's right, mykonian. mykonian is once again a viable candidate for possession of a death note RIGHT NOW. Keep this in mind as well.

@Lamont: I'm posting as much as I possibly can. I'm on indefinite V/LA right now due to moving into college. I'd say I'm doing pretty damn well despite that, wouldn't you?

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl:The word is in. A result of communication present means that there is at least one open line of communication that you have available to you. It does not tell me whether or not you used it.

Right then. Time for your claim.

[Kairyuu]

My actual ability is apparently to check to see if you have the ABILITY to Night Talk on the Night I investigate you. According my result, you have the ability to Night Talk. For one last clarification, do you have the ability to Night Talk?

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont: What made you decide to flip me into the scum part of your list?

@all: Well, Xyl is definitely lying here, and with these new Starbuck issues, I would have to say that our 1-1 is now considerably more important.

unvote
vote: Xyl

[Kairyuu]

unvote
vote: MBL

HoS: Xyl

At this point we have 2 1-1s with one side of each claiming to be a cop. I don't care which we lynch, but one of Xyl and MBL needs to be lynched today. Preferably quickly.

@Mod: If a death note were to be set to kill after a rather large number of posts, and the Day ended before that was reached, would we have negated the kill?

Noted and ignored.

[Kairyuu]

-bows to Lamont-

Our dayvig is now confirmed town. Whoever it was just destroyed a death note, and that's one of the two 1-1 situations taken care of right there.

vote: Xyl

He's the lynch today, for obvious reasons.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont: the KoC/Starbuck situation can be dealt with tomorrow. We had 3 cop "guilties" at the beginning of the Day, and it has thus far lead to a destroyed note. I think we should take care of the other guilties before we deal with an unknown.

[Kairyuu]

Hmm. Another interesting bit of information that can be gleaned from the destruction of this death note is that Vi (Light) was NOT holding a death note after all. I wonder why.

[Kairyuu]

@Lamont:

1) I would be fine with it, but keep in mind that it wastes an investigation when lynching one of us would be far faster.

2) I don't care who get's investigated. If it's me it will be town, and if it's Xyl it will not.

3) If the investigation clears me, then yes, you have my full permission to assist me in lynching Xyl. Then again, you can help me lynch him today instead and save time. Hell, you can lynch me and have the dayvig take Xyl down right off the bat tomorrow if you REALLY want to.

@all: the scumteam has been considerably weakened over the last 2 game Days. Motivation for me to put myself into a 1-1 situation is completely nonexistant, as I have drawn only slight suspicion over the course of the game, and it would lead directly to my death even if i got Xyl lynched first. On the other hand, motivation for Xyl to put himself into a 1-1 with a claimed cop, when the alternative is telling the town the name of at least one of his scumbuddies is CONSIDERABLY higher. Correct play for scum in Xyl's situation is to call me a liar. He will die and flip scum regardless, but at the same time he has the potential to take down a cop in the process AND doesn't have to throw a scumbuddy in the line of fire. If you look at the motivations which led to this situation being a 1-1, the choice is quite clear as to who stands to gain the most from lying.

[Kairyuu]

If he had admitted to talking with someone last Night, then he would have had to tell us who it was. If he lied, then the person he claimed to have talked to would have called him on it and he would have been speedlynched. If he would have told the truth, it would mean revealing the name of one of his scumbuddies, and if either of them died, the other would be the automatic next target.

[Kairyuu]

@Deathnote

At night,

you may anonymously give away your Death Note to any player. You may also choose to destroy it.

Please note the bolded. The death note can only be destroyed by a scum player during the Night phase. That it was destroyed upon the death of MBL means it must have been a pro-town player doing the killing, because that's the only way they would be destroyed on contact.

@Xyl: You would still have to reveal a name your way, and it would put you in a quasi 1-1 with KoC. If you were lynched, then the name you mentioned would, again, be the next target for the town.

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl: Ah, right. Missed that bit. Still. This way you're in a 1-1 with a cop, and that way you're in a 1-1 with someone else. The potential to get a cop lynched is better for scum than getting some other random role lynched, so you picked the 1-1 with me. It's simple. You're scum. My investigation says you are lying about not having Night talk, so you must be scum.

[Kairyuu]

That you were talking to someone last Night, or at least that you had the ability to talk to someone last Night. Just like I claimed.

Why would

I

claim a false result on you? What do I have to gain from getting you lynched if I'm scum?

[Kairyuu]

"If the investigation clears me"?

It'll either clear me or condemn you, so I don't really see what you're getting at here.

[Kairyuu]

We have 10 days til deadline. Can we lynch someone already (preferably Xyl)? I'd rather not run up against deadline again.

[Kairyuu]

I'm not liking that you want a quicklynch.

We have a clear cut 1-1 situation. Is it too much to ask for people to PICK ONE and get it over with already? I have ALWAYS had a problem with the indecisiveness that is rampant on this site. Hell, if you want to pick me, then pick me. Just make sure Xyl dies a RAPID death tomorrow when I flip town of you do.

I repeat, Xyl and I are in a 1-1 situation. One of us MUST be scum. Hurry up and decide which one it is already. I'm getting sick of waiting. It's boring.

Xylthixlm -2 (kairyuu, Lamont_Cranston)
kairyuu -1 (xylthixlm)

Not voting: mykonian, Gorrad, LlamaFluff, Stephoscope, Kairyuu, DeathNote, Starbuck, Kmd4390, Knight of Cydonia, xylthixlm, zwetchenwasser

We'll just act like we're kissing.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

2) Kairyuu's claim makes no sense thanks to QTs. If people give fake names in the topics (Recall, KoC's claim relies on being anonymous) then the mod can't know who talked and who didn't.

Vote: Kairyuu

.

Wait . . . what? That makes no sense. How would the mod not know if the roles he made himself are able to talk at Night? I clarified it with the mod, and my investigation tells me whether or not the person I investigate is ABLE to talk at Night during the Night I investigate them. I mentioned this a few days ago. For example, if I investigated someone and got that they couldnt talk to anyone, but then they were recruited by Stepho and I investigated them again, I would get that they could talk at Night, even if they decided not to.

[Kairyuu]

I believe Kairyuu more than I believe Xylthxlm. Can someone quickly summarize why at least one of them is scum?

I investigated Xyl. Result was that he was able to Night talk. He flat out denies this. Therefore, either he is lying about not being able to Night talk (and therefore is almost definitely scum) or I am lying about my role (and therefore am almost definitely scum). So yeah. One of us MUST be scum.

[Kairyuu]

@Xyl: So because my role is complicated and yours isn't I'm the scum? Keep in mind also that MafiaSSK claimed miller too, and his claim was nothing like yours. He flipped town, so I assume he was not lying.

You're flailing, and it's funny. I've never seen you this worried about your own skin, even as a SK in Tar's Unreal Tournament game.

[Kairyuu]

You're flailing, and it's funny. I've never seen you this worried about your own skin, even as a SK in Tar's Unreal Tournament game.

Have you ever seen me get wagoned as town before?

Given that I've never seen you as town before (SK in UT, and Mafia in MS3), then no, I haven't seen you wagoned as town before.

And I still haven't, because you're quite clearly lying scum here, and you're throwing up weak counter after weak counter to try to take down a cop on your way out. Not gonna work though. My position is sustainable. Yours isn't. It's checkmate. You were a worthy opponent, but you've been caught and exposed. It's over.

Eh. Don't remember him. I liked the Kira Task Force characters much better than the later characters... most of the later ones were kind of bland.

I agree with this. I didn't much like the Near arc for plot either. After L died there was a distinctive drop in the quality of the manga (I only watched like 2-3 episodes of the anime). Not subtle enough. Near was too flashy.

[Kairyuu]

Given that I've never seen you as town before (SK in UT, and Mafia in MS3), then no, I haven't seen you wagoned as town before.

"Funny, you're not playing the way you do as scum. But you're scum anyways."

More like I don't have a meta on you at all beyond UT, which had you playing SK since I wasn't in MS3 long enough to really notice how you were playing. Also, as you can note from my GTKAS thread recently, I don't consider a meta strong enough to sway me unless there are a pretty decent number of games represented of both alignments. I've yet to see you play as town, so I cannot attribute your behavior to any meta at all.

And I still haven't, because you're quite clearly lying scum here, and you're throwing up weak counter after weak counter to try to take down a cop on your way out. Not gonna work though. My position is sustainable. Yours isn't. It's checkmate. You were a worthy opponent, but you've been caught and exposed. It's over.

Well, if I get lynched, you die tomorrow. I presume there were enough scum left that you thought you could win with just one mislynch, at least until MBL got daykilled.

Then why is it that you are so worried about your own skin. Assuming that you are town, you shouldn't be worried about getting lynched yourself, since I'll still die regardless once you flip. You're acting far too worried to really be town. In your situation (and mine, since it is the same), town has no incentive to worry, since scum will be killed either way. I'll be the lynch today if the majority leans that way, and I won't complain, because you'll die anyway at the start of tomorrow once you're proven scum.

Bolded mine.

[Kairyuu]

And heeere comes the "too defensive" attack.

Obviously, I would prefer to lynch Kairyuu first, rather than lynching me then Kairyuu. It gives an extra day to find the rest of the scum. But read the answers to Lamont's question #3 if you want to know which of us is more afraid of being lynched.

Let's assume you town. You want to stay alive for another Night so that you can "find the rest of the scum." What can you do with an extra Night that you can't do before Night hits?

Now let's assume me town. I want to stay alive for another Night so that I can get in another investigation, the results of which I can provide to the town tomorrow right away.

Compare the two. Which of us would have the larger incentive to stay alive another Night?

Also, keep in mind that neither of us will live to see Night 5, regardless of the choice today. If you are lynched, you'll flip scum and confirm me town, which will quite possibly draw the NK to me. If we lynch me, I'll flip town, and either a Shinigami tonight or the dayvig tomorrow will take you out.

So Xyl, are you the last Mafia? Are you Misa? Is that why you want to hang on to life as long as possible?

[Kairyuu]

And heeere comes the "too defensive" attack.

Obviously, I would prefer to lynch Kairyuu first, rather than lynching me then Kairyuu. It gives an extra day to find the rest of the scum. But read the answers to Lamont's question #3 if you want to know which of us is more afraid of being lynched.

Let's assume you town. You want to stay alive for another Night so that you can "find the rest of the scum." What can you do with an extra Night that you can't do before Night hits?

I said an extra day, not an extra night. As in, an extra day before town loses, because town has made one fewer mislynch. Twisting my words, scum?

Alright fine. My point still stands as is. If you assume me town then we get the extra Day AS WELL AS the extra Night for me to investigate. Nothing changes. Nitpicking much, scum?

[Kairyuu]

Hey Kai could you ask the Mod in-thread here about your role and get the Mod to answer you here so we can all see it?

It wouldn't be answered, or would be answered via pm. It also could potentially risk a modkill depending on my wording, so I'm not doing it.

@Xyl: So now the mod is refusing to tell you whether or not your millerdom would affect a cop looking for Night talk? That makes me quite uneasy. He answered my question without a problem, and was completely straighforward with me.

[Kairyuu]

Hey Kai could you ask the Mod in-thread here about your role and get the Mod to answer you here so we can all see it?

It wouldn't be answered, or would be answered via pm. It also could potentially risk a modkill depending on my wording, so I'm not doing it.

@Xyl: So now the mod is refusing to tell you whether or not your millerdom would affect a cop looking for Night talk? That makes me quite uneasy. He answered my question without a problem, and was completely straighforward with me.

Why don't

you

PM the mod to ask what result you'd get on my role, and see if you get a straight answer?

Done. Waiting for a reply.

[Kairyuu]

@zwet: Your theory is very indicative of severe paranoia, and it has a number of holes in it. While I still do not trust Xyl, I would like to at least pursue this line of investigation before I fully commit to my suspicions again. It is possible that this was all a misunderstanding. Unlikely, but possible. Also, note that my vote has not been removed. Xyl is not receiving the benefit of the doubt from me. At this point, the onus is on him to provide reasoning to gel both of us being town. Unless he can convince me of that, I will not be unvoting.

That said, if the mod evades the question as Xyl claims he will, then I will be more inclined to accept Xyl's theory. I'm not sure how likely that is at the moment though, so all we can do is wait for now.

[Kairyuu]

Yay I got a straight answer. Let's see if Kairyuu got one too.

I have received a straight answer as well. You get to reveal first.

[Kairyuu]

I got that the inspection role would get whatever they would get from inspecting L.

Speaking in hypothetical terms, I got that if there was a role that would investigate as if it were another role that had Night talk, I would receive the result that the player I investigated had Night talk. Essentially, that you would investigate as having Night talk because L has Night talk.

unvote
vote: Llamafluff

Tis the play for today.

[Kairyuu]

So. Why are we trying to lynch an unknown instead of a near confirmed Shinigami exactly? Alternately, the fully confirmed Shinigami could very well be sitting on a note again today as well if Llama decided to pass his note in the expectation of being lynched, so we need to pay close attention to him as well.

Llamafluff -3 (Kairyuu, zwetchenwasser, DeathNote)
DeathNote -3 (Gorrad, Kmd4390, Lamont_Cranston)
Xylthixlm -1 (Stephoscope)

Not voting: mykonian, LlamaFluff, Starbuck, xylthixlm, Knight of Cydonia

The enemy is Yotsuba, but also Kira.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

DeathNote is turning into a second Mastin. When he's scummy, he's scummy. When he's townie, he's scummy. Frankly, I'm getting fed up of it.
That said, the shameless wagoning he usually does is a little over the top even for him today. Gorrad's above quote is a perfect example of this.

unvote; Vote DeathNote

/sigh

Ok then. Deathnote it is. I hope you guys are right, because this is taking away our shot at Llama's note.

unvote
vote: Deathnote

[Kairyuu]

Lamont voting DN already? Check.
KoC no posts since last DN vote? Check.
Kairyuu completely flipping his stance to follow a pretty weak lynch? Check.
Lamont coming in and asking for the hammer? K, maybe scum, maybe not.

Conclusions:
KoC and Kairyuu are likely scum here. More Kairyuu than KoC. Lamont could still go either way. DN is town. There is another scum who they expected to hammer.

Vote Kairyuu

That logic is terrible. I would VERY much prefer a Llamafluff lynch. However, as the consensus appears to be for deathnote, I am tossing my vote there to get a lynch in. I have expressed my extreme distaste for these forced deadline lynches several times. If I see an apparent consensus, I am not going to fight it. This is what I do in the vast majority of my games.

In addition to that, I believe that my results on Xyl and Lamont have now confirmed that I am, in fact, a cop, just like I claimed.

I repeat, that logic is terrible. You assume that I'd be stupid enough to draw that kind of attention to myself as scum.

[Kairyuu]

I don't think drawing attention matters in a quickhammer if we are in LYLO.

You call it general consensus. This wagon popped up over what? A couple of days? Rather than analyze why it comes up, you jumped on and placed DN at L-1.

I doubt we are in lylo. We have 3 dead scum already. There can't be more than ~1-2 of them left if you factor in Shinigami. I have at no point expressed the belief that we are at lylo. Frankly, I believe that us being at lylo right now would be silly given the original number of players.

Also, that's exactly what I did. Did I not expressely state just now that I don't want to be forced into a FOURTH deadline lynch? I want Llama lynched. People disagree with me. I will not be recalcitrant when it would probably end in me swapping my vote due to deadline necessity either way. A LYNCH NEEDS TO HAPPEN at some point. If it's gonna be Deathnote, what exactly is the purpose of stalling it until the last possible second like so many people in this game just LOVE to do? I stand by my position.

[Kairyuu]

Original lynch plan is preferable, obviously, and now has enough support to be viable.

@Lamont: The Llama wagon is comfier than the Deathnote wagon. You should jump on.

unvote
vote: Llamafluff

[Kairyuu]

@zwet: Wasn't hhe confirmed town when he claimed cop and got MBL dayvigged, which destroyed a note?

[Kairyuu]

AAH! You $%$#$&$&$*^Y$$%^$!

What?

[Kairyuu]

Damn you rampant wagoners. You're confusing my mind!

IT'S FUN!

WAGONWAGONWAGONWAGONWAGON

Seriously though. Llamafluff lynch >>>>>>> Deathnote lynch.

[Kairyuu]

Well, we know that Llama almost definitely has his note. That was, in all likelyhood, the same as with myko. A last ditch attempt to grab his note back for being on the lynch wagon.

[Kairyuu]

There is no way to say that "Llama definitely had his note" at best he might have but probably didn't.

Where would it have gone exactly? If you were so confident that he passed it off, why didn't you push a myko lynch?

[Kairyuu]

And yes, Llama self-hammered.

[Kairyuu]

Well we really dont know... Your Myko idea is good but with nigh communication being central to this game, how do we know who Llama is talking to at night? He has already shown that he has no interest in helping us (as we already decided about Shinigami earlier)...

Reading is tech. Stepho would have told us if Llama could Night talk, since Stepho got Llama's entire role PM. Since Llama cannot Night talk, it stands to reason that the only place he could have sent the note would have been to myko. Therefore, either Llama is holding the note or myko is. We'll see which one once the flip happens.

[Kairyuu]

I'm an idiot. I could have sworn I sent in an investigation, but apparently I didn't. My apologies.

vote: KoC

[Kairyuu]

The Misa thing from yesterday made me uncomfortable. I suspect that KoC may, in fact, be Misa.

Knight of Cydonia -1 (Kairyuu)
Not Voting: zwetschenwasser, mykonian, Gorrad, Knight of Cydonia, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, xylthixlm, LlamaFluff

You can't buy peace and love with money, you know!

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

@Zwet: Can you stop that please? It's behavior like that that makes people not want to play with you. Personally, I find it amusing, but most others tend to disagree with me.

Knight of Cydonia -1 (Kairyuu)
DeathNote -1 (Gorrad)
Gorrad -1 (zwetschenwasser)
Not Voting: mykonian, Knight of Cydonia, Starbuck, DeathNote, Stephoscope, xylthixlm, LlamaFluff

Light's L now, right?

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

HOLD ON A MINUTE! You're still alive! This is absurd. My first serious vote for today:

Unvote; Vote: Kairyuu

. Everybody please remember Kairyuu's early attempts at coordinating multiple mislynches through his attempt at lynching mykonian three times.

...

What? First of all, I supported myko's lynch D1 based on good evidence he was not town. This support was put in the right place, obviously, as that lynch yielded a destroyed death note. Secondly, I pushed for myko's lynch again on D3 because there was again a large amount of evidence that myko had been given another death note. That time it was incorrect, but we didn't even use our lynch to find that out, since the dayvig showed us that he was not holding one. I brought it up D4 again as a sidenote, and didn't actually push for the lynch, since Llamafluff seemed a better candidate for holding the note.

So . . . care to explain how I attempted to "coordinate multiple mislynches through my attempt at lynching mykonian three times?" The way I see it, one of the three lynch attempts was not my idea (it was Llamafluff's), one of them was based on a flawed assumption, and the third was not actually a lynch attempt at all.

Try again. Your case is based on nothing but misrep of my behavior.

[Kairyuu]

EBWOP: "The way I see it, one of the three lynch attempts was not my idea (it was Llamafluff's)

and was a SUCCESSFUL lynch

, . . .

[Kairyuu]

Respond to my points zwet.

Can you address the fact that the D1 lynch was not only not my original idea, but also ADVANCED THE TOWN WIN CONDITION?

Can you also address the fact that the second one was based on signifigant evidence, and that YOU SUPPORTED IT?

Finally, can you address the fact that you are accusing me of trying a third time to get myko lynched D4, when I not only offered it as merely a sidenote to the Llamafluff lynch, but also NEVER PLACED A VOTE to support it?

Your "case" is a massive reach at best and complete misrep at worst.

[Kairyuu]

I feel that Myko would be a bad lynch today anyway. Odds are, that there is not three deathnotes still active. I was under the impression that there was only one the day before, but I was wrong seeing as there was two night kills the night before.

Who is suggesting we lynch myko?

[Kairyuu]

@myk: So you DO have a deathnote. Thanks much for that tidbit.

unvote
vote: mykonian

[Kairyuu]

Heh. Myko, you screwed up your claim.

and I act as a rolecop, and that helps me with looking for a deathnote.

zazie didn't have one

Kai however, is. It was my last night result, since I have normally a town read on him, but this time, he is an 3rd party player,

who might have a deathnote, but that is something I don't get to know

.

Take note. He originally claimed death note cop. Now he's claiming alignment cop. Lying through his teeth. Probably cuz he has a death note now and wants to push towards his claimed win con of having a death note when it hits D7.

[Kairyuu]

He claimed "rolecop". There's no inconsistency there.

He claimed "rolecop" and then explained his ability to be that he can determine if someone is holding a death note. Now he's changed it. Also,, his current claim does not mesh with the "rolecop" claim either. He has claimed that his result on me was "3rd party player" which is an alignment result, not a role result. Either way, he's trying to claim 3 different types of cops all at once. It doesn't fit. Hence, he's lying through his teeth in an attempt to get me, one of the few players actively keeping tabs on him, lynched.

[Kairyuu]

He claimed "rolecop". There's no inconsistency there.

He claimed "rolecop" and then explained his ability to be that he can determine if someone is holding a death note.

and I act as a rolecop, and that helps me with looking for a deathnote. zazie didn't have one

I read that as saying that checking for a death note is part of the rolecop ability, not the whole thing.

Even allowing for that, why would he now not be able to know whether or not i have one?

[Kairyuu]

I'm strongly inclined towards revoting Kairyuu right now. For the fourth time he's trying to coordinate a mykonian lynch, this time for a case I find a bad case of reaching.

Pfft. In order to revote me you'd need to unvote me first, which you haven't done.

Also, this is the 2nd time I've tried to coordinate a myko lynch, and given that he's claiming a completely screwed up cop investigation on me, methinks my vote is rather justified.

Oh, by the way. Claim all of your results in your next post. It's about time for that.

@all: I propose a massclaim. It's rather close to endgame, and I think that waiting any longer would remove any useful information we can draw from it.

[Kairyuu]

I think everyone but Starbuck and DeathNote have already claimed.

I do believe you're right.

@Starbuck and Deathnote: Claim away. No reason to continue to hide anything at this juncture.

[Kairyuu]

I got no result back last night.

List target and result for each Night please.

@Deathnote: Need ability and flavor as well.

[Kairyuu]

Sachiko Yagami, I am Light's mother.

I am a caring individual, although naive, and only want my children to succeed in life. << (this is not a quote from my PM as I don't think that is allowed anyway)

I am basically just a VT now as Vi is now dead. I had a QT thread with him only I did not know his role. His name appeared as Vi and my name appeared as DeathNote. I am unsure if he knew my role but I am positive that I didn't know his until he died. I was never able to talk to Vi other then to say, I am replacing in as he died the next day.

BTW, should we be worried about Rem and Sidoh? I am unsure what to do about that at this point. If there is a Sidoh, then perhaps he has a deathnote along with Misa instead of my original thought of Mikami having one. I dont know where to go with this right now. Thoughts?

Did you know that Vi was Light, or were you just told "you can talk to Vi at Night, but you don't know who he is?"

That claim reeks of scum by the way.

[Kairyuu]

unvote
vote: deathnote

I'm pretty sure that Light's mother would know who her own son was. Not that he was Kira, but at least that he was Light.

You're claim doesn't make any sense at all. Plus, given your claimed rolename, it should have been glaringly obvious to you who the person you could communicate with at Night was, even of the mod did somehow not tell you explicitly.

Scum scum scum scum.

[Kairyuu]

unvote

Deathnote is Shidoh based on Llama's vote.

[Kairyuu]

I'm betting on DeathNote = Sidoh.

Is there an echo in here?

Who do you think is Misa?

[Kairyuu]

Starbuck is Misa.

Why?

[Kairyuu]

Doesn't the KoC QT thing point to her NOT being Misa though based on assuming Misa to be a rational player?

[Kairyuu]

vote: Deathnote

Ugh. I can't think of a better play. Starbuck probably isn't Misa methinks. Deathnote probably isn't either, but his claim reeks. I say we lynch him and hope for the best.

[Kairyuu]

So who do

you

think is Misa?

I don't honestly have a clue. I don't have strong town reads on anyone left in the game except Steph, and pretty much anyone else I could see the argument for them being Misa.

[Kairyuu]

unvote
vote: zwet

Had a brainwave. If zwet is scum then Gorrad is too 100%.

[Kairyuu]

How so, Kai?

Gorrad claimed 1-shot cop of the same variety as Kmd. He also claimed that he investigated zwet and got 99% confirmed town. If zwet is scum then Gorrad was lying. I can't see there being more than 2 scum left aside from our resident Shinigami annoyances, so if we hit one in zwet we've hit both.

[Kairyuu]

And that dignifies a vote? If you are wrong and we lynch Zwet, then town is pretty much shot. Assuming that there are two pro kiras left and three shinigami, that leaves five town players. If we lynch the wrong person today, then two more people get killed tonight, more then likely two of them town, leaving two town players tomorrow. It game over then.

It's zwet or you. Would you prefer I go back to you? I'd be happy to oblige.

[Kairyuu]

Had a brainwave. If zwet is scum then Gorrad is too 100%.

Then why are you voting zwet?

Because the causality does not work in reverse. If Gorrad is scum then zwet could be town.

DeathNote -2 (Gorrad, Knight of Cydonia)
mykonian -1 (Stephoscope)
Kairyuu -1 (zwetschenwasser)
zwetchenwasser -1 (Kairyuu)
Not Voting: mykonian, Starbuck, DeathNote, xylthixlm, Llamafluff

Mello's story?

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

AHAHAHA! That's the last straw with you, scum.

Unvote; Vote: Kairyuu

. . . .

You unvoted me . . . so you could revote me.

Good show.

[Kairyuu]

We are not cooperating well as a town right now. Too much suspicions on everyone.

"You're not lynching me like you were supposed to after my obviously screwed up claim."

That's essentially what you just said.

[Kairyuu]

We are not cooperating well as a town right now. Too much suspicions on everyone.

"You're not lynching me like you were supposed to after my obviously screwed up claim."

That's essentially what you just said.

Wrong again. YOU just voted for zwet based on the fact that it would be ideal for him to be scum since Gorrad would also be scum. More then anyone else, your votes have been all over everyone.

I get erratic when I don't have solid reads. Now stop trying to get yourself lynched already. It's not gonna work.

[Kairyuu]

It pains me to say that Kairyuu and Deathnote are working together to screw us over, while Llamafluff is just trying to confuse us.

Bullshit. Where is the logic?

[Kairyuu]

Vote: DeathNote

His claim reeks of scumminess. I tried to do some reading on Light's mom, and there really isn't anything related to the story. I just don't buy it.

unvote
vote: Starbuck

Ok. Yeah. Deathnote is definitely Shdoh, and you're still voting him. Right. I think you might have just had the forethought to set up the double bluff.

[Kairyuu]

Had a brainwave. If zwet is scum then Gorrad is too 100%.

Then why are you voting zwet?

Because the causality does not work in reverse. If Gorrad is scum then zwet could be town.

THEN WHY ARE YOU VOTING ZWET?!

I'm not.

However, I'm not seeing where your logic comes in here. If zwet then gorrad is a true statement. If gorrad then zwet has no causal relationship. Therefore, lynching the one that will confirm the other scum on a scum-flip is the optimal play. Lynching Gorrad instead simply puts us in the same situation informationally tomorrow if he flips scum, and confirms zwet town if he flips town.

Hmm. Actually, looking at both sides, we could lynch either of them to possibly determine the alignment of the other, depending on what we're looking for. If we think they're scum, we lynch zwet to see if they are both scum. If we think they're town, we lynch gorrad. Given that it would be literally the stupidest move we could make to lynch a claimed cop in the hopes of confirming his results, lynching Gorrad to confirm zwet is out of the question.

So yeah. I don't really know what you're looking for here, but if you think I should be voting Gorrad in the situation I brought up, you haven't thought it through at all.

[Kairyuu]

So given two players with linked alignment, you are voting the one you think is

less likely to be scum

.

Do I have that right?

No. You don't. I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

Also, I'm not voting either of them at the moment.

[Kairyuu]

Your logic doesn't hold if you think zwet scum but don't have a read on Gorrad.

Gorrad doesn't factor into my reasoning unless zwet is scum. If zwet is town, then Gorrad gets left alone, because I don't have a scum read on him.

Of course, this is all hypothetical at this point, as the play for today is Starbuck.

[Kairyuu]

So who do

you

think is Misa?

I don't honestly have a clue. I don't have strong town reads on anyone left in the game except Steph, and pretty much anyone else I could see the argument for them being Misa.

Just looking back on these last few pages and I wondered...

What has Steph done to make him confirmed town? From what I gather, he claimed L correct? If it is true... why is he still alive? If I were scum, I would have killed him right off. I am guessing that I just missed something somewhere so if someone could please enlighten me.

Watari's flip after zwet's tracker result on Steph confirm Steph's claim.

[Kairyuu]

But if you think zwet is scum, and zwet being scum implies Gorrad being scum 100%, then you should think Gorrad is scum regardless of your read on him!

IIRC I've caught scum using exactly the same bad logic Kairyuu is using here twice, and town making it once.

/sigh

I'm not even going to attempt to argue this with you anymore. You're looking for anything and everything you can find to call me scummy. I'm a goddamn cop. Give it up already.

[Kairyuu]

Kairyuu can't refute my logic so he stops arguing. Wonderful.

But if he is wrong about Zwet being scum then that means Gorrad is clear. This is why Zwet would be lynched first.

zwet being town would not clear Gorrad.

Your "logic" is simply nitpicking over optimal vs. suboptimal plays when both plays are inherently good. There's nothing to argue over, and my way doesn't make me any more likely scum than voting Gorrad would have.

Now drop it and vote for Starbuck. You said yourself you think she's Misa.

[Kairyuu]

Kairyuu, I hate to burst your bubble, but reread. I got a 99% town on L_C, not Zwet.

Post 3263:

Gods above and below...

Unvote

I'm Mogi. 1-shot daycop. Lamont's town ><. I get a percentage based on how likely they are to be Kira-aligned. Lamont has a 1% chance.

And how do you know that Deathnote doesn't have, well, a Death Note? Even as Sidoh.

Right then. Moving on . . .

As for Deathnote, I highly doubt that someone who appears to be actively attempting to get themselves lynched would be trying to just hand us a death note to destroy. It just doesn't make logical sense. Starbuck on the other hand, is perfectly capable of a double bluff as Misa. She's a much better lynch.

[Kairyuu]

Pfft.

DeathNote is confirmed Shidoh, and totally doesn't have a death note.

@Dayvig: If you're still alive, take a potshot at Deathnote please. That'll wipe the smirk off his face.

[Kairyuu]

And Starbuck is confirmed Misa and totally DOES have a deathnote. Otherwise Deathnote wouldn't be so damn desperate to get himself lynched.

@Deathnote: If you were telling the truth that would be a suicidal play. We know that there are only 2 death notes left based on the number of kills, so lynching you would nearly guarentee a town win of you were telling the truth. Therefore, since I assume you rational, you're lying.