Open 148: Jungle Republic (Game over) before 800

[Wulfy]

Yo.

[Wulfy]

Khamisa is just pretending to be a cute little pussy cat, but I saw her chasing some big knotted dog...

Vote Khamisa

*barks* I'm the good kind of wolf! I'll hunt out that mafia and wolves if it's the last thing I do!

(even if we already won the "original" game with the easiest win condition ever!)

[Wulfy]

Actually, that'd be a 45% chance of being scum, so when someone is 45.5% scum, you should change your vote.

[Wulfy]

That's Mascum, to you. If you think of me as town, it's Mastown. Which I am. (OMG! He claimed scum earlier, and has changed his claim! Lynch the liar with the inconsistent story! Razz) See, my name's easy to be made into both town and scum, further proof of why I'm a hard read. Razz

To be logical:
To say you're obvtown, people would say "Mastown"
That means town - the "Mas"

Using that logic for "Mascum"
Mascum - "Mas" = cum

...Mastin, with perverted joke like that, I'm sure we can be friends.

Unvote

I support the fallen wagon, but with five (I think?) votes on him, it is better to not vote him yet.

[Wulfy]

There has got to be more then enough information that you should be able to cast a random vote.

Unvote, Vote CJMiller

You've clearly never played with CJ. I'm not an expect on town vs scum CJ, but he's always that stupid. Can't hold it against him since he was town and stupid lynched by it.

Also, you are trying to deflect on CJ.

Mod: Vote count

Just to buy you enough time to TRY and defend yourself against this bandwagon.

[Wulfy]

CJ, why is it that the only thing you're concerned with is not looking scummy?

...Check his meta...he's an idiot.

Has there been enough from CJ or Khamisa to form an opinion?

They essentially hadn't posted

at all

at that point, so I assumed they were getting around to it or being replaced.. and I feel like people are more responsive if you don't lump them in big groups and yell at them all at once. A list of only two people is much more personal.

Yos, there's just one specific thing that weirded me out: after Tarballs posted, you declared that he was right about your minigambit, then directly after that, FA posted essentially the opposite opinion, and then you immediately declared

he

was right. (Later down you just popped out another reason for voting seemingly out of nowhere after the fact, but I don't see anything especially wrong with that out of context.)

Please give the points at which this happened to make it more like a case, and I will gladly support this.

CJ, why is it that the only thing you're concerned with is not looking scummy?

Because I'm trying to last until the end of the game.

Also, I will claim now.

I am a

seer

. Each night, I can investigate someone to find out if they are a human or a werewolf. Basically, I'm a flavor cop. I win when the town outnumbers the mafia and werewolves combined.

I would like you to know that I hate you.

Side note:

FoS Tarballs

Do not vote the "seer."

Yos: Hilarious story.

[Wulfy]

Fallen angel is scum. Tarballs is almost certainly his partner, the connection was made obvious in the egregious stalling defense tar threw up for FA. If FA is mafia and not a wolf, I'd lay money on mastin being the third, for a less drastic example of the same.

Khamisa is also scum, likely the other group. My gut says Kham is a wolf considering the danger of leaving CJ alive for a mislynch tomorrow, given her slimy undermining of confidence in CJ's claim.

Thats 4 out of 5. If the 5th scum could please claim so I don't have to do any more work I'd really appreciate it.

First: CJ is almost definitely town. As *Scratches ear* As Sotty and I can tell you, he's stupid. The fact he's a seer is a terrible, terrible loss from which we're all pretty screwed (cept those fake wulves), but we can't lynch him, and if he's scum, I would be really, really surprised.

Also, I agree. I'm getting a strong FA scum feeling too. The townie claim (called for) doesn't say "save me, save me," but yos has a valid point. We should definitely avoid lynching town. So, I see no issue holding off just a bit to get a better feel and watching everyone. It is a far superior line of play than rushing into a lynch while our Seer (assumed confirmed?) will probably die tonight. So, having his say, even though he's prone to tunneling, is a better idea.

Side note: CJ, look up the Gambler's fallacy in the wiki. Learn it.

Scratch the above, as this post has given me reason to vote her:

Consider this- I don't get lynched today, the seer investigates me. CJ says I'm scum, I flip town, lynch CJ. It confirms me if CJ (or if he isn't the seer) it confirms me and possibly him. It's a risk, and I understand it's WIFOMy, but isn't it worth a shot? Yea, I know I appear to be trying to save myself. I don't really care.

False, as you are clearly mafia. You want CJ to confirm you because you know that the following line will happen because CJ can only ascertain werewolf and not werewolf.

You are mafia. You get us to no lynch. CJ seers you, and werewolves kill someone else. They know that this stupid plan will play in their favor. CJ confirms you, and either the town will lynch CJ as a liar, OR the town lynches someone else, and CJ dies by werewolves with you as the sole confirmed person (or at lest, not werewolf confirmed).

I had rather see you hang now:

Vote Fallen Angel

That was a terrible idea and is a really scummy ploy.

[Wulfy]

Thanks to some of you rushing the day 1 lynch, I don't have much to work with here. I'll go with my vote from last day, as I can't find any reasons to change it.

Vote: OGML

This seems scummy since you just kind of bail on actually finding a reason to vote based on turned roles. Who seemed to refuse to vote FA as though they knew FA was town? Who seemed to work together yesterday, etc, should give you more than your first pick. Plus, how is your first pick valid NOW?

People voting Khamisa: Reason? I could have just missed it, but I don't see any reason for the votes yet, so if you have one or want to refer me to a previous case, I would love to see what you're thinking. (That is the best move to see what people are thinking, AMIRIGHT?)

[Wulfy]

[05] One "bah" post is allowed.

SCREW YOU!

Anger issues?

People voting Khamisa: Reason?

Waiting until after it's already occurred to decry the lynch means you're not actually interested in trying to prevent a town lynch, you just want to look good by not being part of it.

I understand. Missed that then, huh?

Oh, and the case for me is that I thought it was a ploy as a mafia aligned player to "clear" themselves by hoodwinking us. See my voting post, but the other reasons was just generally scummy play. I felt mafia the moment I read that post, and even now, I am still shocked that she wasn't mafia. It...was just...I feel terrible for the screw up. But, live and learn, as they say.

[Wulfy]

Thanks to some of you rushing the day 1 lynch, I don't have much to work with here. I'll go with my vote from last day, as I can't find any reasons to change it.

Vote: OGML

This seems scummy since you just kind of bail on actually finding a reason to vote based on turned roles. Who seemed to refuse to vote FA as though they knew FA was town? Who seemed to work together yesterday, etc, should give you more than your first pick. Plus, how is your first pick valid NOW?

First of all, there's no one here who

knew

FA was town. Werewolves may have thought he was mafia, and mafia may have thought he was a werewolf. I had a newb town read of FA, so him flipping town didn't surprise me as much as it seems to have surprised some of you.

OGML seemed the most suspicious to me when I first voted him, was the most suspicious until the hammer, and remained the most suspicious when FA flipped. And thus far nothing has happened today that would change my mind about that.

Oh, and the case for me is that I thought it was a ploy as a mafia aligned player to "clear" themselves by hoodwinking us. See my voting post, but the other reasons was just generally scummy play. I felt mafia the moment I read that post, and even now, I am still shocked that

she

wasn't mafia. It...was just...I feel terrible for the screw up. But, live and learn, as they say.

It's 'he'.

And you shouldn't defend yourself, when no one's really even blaming you for the hammer. You gave your reasons when you hammered, no use to add anything to it now.

Mod: Prod Mastin, Caboose and Korejora please.

First: Good point. I do suppose that is completely true.|

Second: I'm not defending myself. Someone asked if there "even was a case on FA."

I explained the case as I saw it.

[Wulfy]

Khamisa:
1) Do you have any conclusions on who exactly could be scum based on that riveting analysis, or are you just going to sit on your hands and wait for someone else to figure it out?
2)

CJMiller - For being last to confirm and yelling NOT SCUM. Note that this was the same person who claimed seer under no pressure.

Why do you insist on taking another potshot at the already dead and confirmed town guy?

I approve of this above product and/or service.

I'm going to say that at least two of the people on this lynch are scum.

There were six people on that lynch who are still alive. There are five townies left. If we take the assumption that you are one of them, which I assume you are claiming to be, that means only four left to have possibly been on that lynch, which would mean there would have to be at least two scum. So this isn't really a particularly bold statement, is it?

And, again, if you thought the case on fallen angel was so bad, why didn't you say anything about it yesterday, when it might have actually made a difference?

I'm reluctant to make a decision this early in the day with us at half to half odds with the scum.

Are you expecting the odds to get better later in the day?

I approve of the above product and/or service.

Yos, to be clear, was your reason for voting FA just the reaction to the NOT SCUM fun and for voting CJ?

My inital vote was based on the "not scum" thing and the Mastin vote; both of which seemed odd to me. Of course, at that point, it was just a "somewhat better then random" vote.

I also had kind of a bad feeling about the tone of FA's posts in general. When FA was trying to push for an OMGUS lynch of CJ, in a situation where it was pretty obvious that CJ was in fact the most important pro-town power role in the game, that made my vote a lot more serious. Granted FA was town, but that was still an incredibly anti-town thing for him to suggest there.

I'm inclined to believe Yos' above reason for his vote. I had similar thoughts which is probably what painted the post I quoted and attacked yesterday to be so scummy. In isolation, it is still scummy, but I guess the build up did cause me to have little mercy in my voting post.

I have to go now! BBL to finish up!

[Wulfy]

OGML seemed the most suspicious to me when I first voted him, was the most suspicious until the hammer, and remained the most suspicious when FA flipped. And thus far nothing has happened today that would change my mind about that.

What exactly is suspicious about him?

OK, for one, let's consider the reasons for votes on the fallen angel lynch.

Yosarian2 - Random Vote. Later explained by random reasons.
Mastin - Rolefishing?
Iamusername - not quite sure, looks a little random
Sotty7 - based on meta. Note that FA is fairly new has only completed two games.
OGML - No explanation in vote post. probably agreeing with earlier suspicions.
CJMiller - For being last to confirm and yelling NOT SCUM. Note that this was the same person who claimed seer under no pressure.
Caboose - Based on her "plan", which actually has good reasoning, but note that it was the hammer.

This case was weak, and with no deadline pressure (I think), we chose this simple lynch? I'm going to say that at least two of the people on this lynch are scum.

Again I ask, if you really felt this way, why didn't you bring this up

yesterday

? You came in and unvoted as FA was being wagoned and instead of even talking about him you throw some dirt on CJ. Looking back you didn't even mention FA at all yesterday almost like you were content to let us all lynch him without having to commit either way.

I also want to know who you think is scum Khamisa.

This brings up an interesting point on Khamisa. I am going to go ahead and suggest that this is definitely negative points on Khamisa.

*props to Sotty on this one.*

Hm... on the flips:
CJ is dead seer. Well, his death would have made FA look bad, which means that she wasn't the worst lynch. I think that as Sotty just pointed out, Khamisa gets scum points on FA's lynch=town. Looking at the wagon, I think that pretty much everyone had a reason to vote FA and that looks like a dry well.

Hm... looking at who didn't vote FA yesterday:

Votecount:

1 – OhGodMyLife (Tarballs)

7 – Fallen Angel-town* (Iamausername, Sotty7, Mastin, OhGodMyLife and Yosarian2, CJMiller-seer(town),* Wulfy)

1 – Iamausername (Khamisa)

Not voting:

Fallen Angel
Caboose
Korejora

Hm.. looking at this, Caboose didn't hammer, I did. Is that a slip Khamisa?

Vote Khamisa

I would like some response here.

[Wulfy]

Post 183

Why did you side step the question?

And the slip is that maybe you know something about Caboose we didn't?

Kore: Okay, did I miss something? I think you just ninja'd yourself.

Yos, don't exaggerate - I thought you were town that one time. Of course, that was the one time you ended up being scum

Anyway, Kore is mostly on the list for defending Kham by way of attacking Wulfy, which is the classic and very useful Chainsaw Defense. I would not be willing to lynch Kore before Kham is dead and confirmed as some flavor of scum.

You are right in that respect, but I suppose that agreeing with people until having a reason to vote is scummy. I still don't like Kham who continues to talk of Caboose's hammer (side note:

MOD: Prod Caboose

) which didn't happen, IN THE SAME POST that Kham realizes she is wrong about the hammer. I think Caboose is slightly scummy for not speaking, but this hammer thing reads false charge.*

Kham has also side stepped actually giving a conclusion to her intial analysis.

*I agree that Kham and Caboose, if both scum, are highly unlikely to be scum together. I really don't have any read in terms of wolf versus mafia scum of either. (Giving some views.)

However, Caboose is down on my list since lurking isn't the biggest thing pinging my scumdar.

[Wulfy]

Prodding Caboose.

Side note: Wulfy, Shut the f**k up.

Love you too, kitty kitty.

Thanks!

I've no trouble with people agreeing with one another, but Wulfy is taking it overboard. I've not seen barely anything from him that wasn't already just said by someone else. Sure, he paraphrases sometimes, and doesn't always say he's agreeing with someone, but what's he said so far that wasn't just said by someone else? It's driving me nuts.

By the by, OGML, your list places everyone voting Khamisa as town, leaving room for no scum on the wagon. Are you sure that's all that likely?

@Wulfy - not sure what you mean?

I'm a snitch irritated that Khamisa's chosen to ignore a request endorsed by, what, five people? Overlooking that seems like pressure floundering.

You voted and the unvoted me between two of my posts so I was like: Whoa, wtf, did you ninja yourself? It was a joke.

At Kham: Okay, you have made a valid point, but you haven't really chased after one or made a case on anyone.

*Acknowledges Caboose's points but had rather hear Kham elaborate first.*

[Wulfy]

I'm really confused. What exactly am I getting lynched for? Pointing out the reasonlessness and swiftness of the FA lynch?

You haven't done this with any real effort, just broad generalizations.

Yos2, what exactly were your reasons, if they aren't the random ones you posted with your vote.

I would like to hear this myself.

Tarballs: You think Kham's wagon is better than FA's wagon yesterday. Okay, I can see your point, but have you yet explained how Kham's wagon would be better than a potential OGML wagon? Or do you think they're scum together? (I am assuming that from your post you'd be willing to hammer Kham if Mastin pot's more reasoning or something to that effect since he's been quiet today.)

[Wulfy]

I just checked, and I noticed that Mastin was active in another game yesterday. Maybe we should ask for a prod since it has been about 4 days since his last post.

So:

Sorry Mod, but could you prod Mastin please? Thanks!

[Wulfy]

Hmm...I think I should pay more attention to this game... (I forgot I was in it, really. Why haven't I been prodded?)

Commenting on current events is always appreciated, and desired, Mastin. As shortly as your posting enables.

[Wulfy]

Ha, first of all I want to point out that Mastin didn't hammer Khamisa; he was already on the wagon, then unvoted and re-voted

Wait, but Yos2 was totally scummy yesterday for reasons I don't currently remember.

Reread is usually the answer for those situations.

And Tarballs has this weird fixation with me that has prevented him from taking part in the Khamisa wagon at all, though he was happy to cheer it on from the sidelines.

When I made my last post of Day 2, Khamisa was at L-1 at that point, so me hopping on that wagon would've ended the day prematurely. At the time of my second-to-last post, Khamisa was at L-4, I believe, and it wasn't much of a wagon at that point.

Do you see what I see?

Not quite. What is that supposed to mean?


My picks for the third mafia are Sotty7 and Caboose. It has to be one of them, but I'll need to reread to be totally sure. I'm agreeing with Mastin that we need to focus on the wolves - that would be the case even if a townie had been killed last night - so I'm not going lynch a mafioso claim today. Let the wolf(es) kill the last maf next night, if they can/want.

Yes, ruin Matin's [bad] plan to get the mafia claim.

Okay, let's look at scummy people. We're looking for two people who are scummy, but are not connected to Kham or Kore.

Hm... my wolfy (notice the spelling) board includes the following people in no particular order:
Yos2
Caboose
Sotty7
Mastin

Now, of them, the last 3 are for lurking. Yos in on there because of his last post and a few of his posts this game. They generally don't make sense to me. I don't think Yos is connected to Kham because Kham's constant attacks on Yos. However, this could be distancing and not some desperate attempt at legitimate scum hunting... Hm... I dunno, but I could see Yos not being scum with Kham, ergo a wolf.

@Yos2: WTF is up with your weird post? I don't even know what your talking about unless you and Mastin are wolf together. (Even then it makes little sense, but I can find that working.)

I think Caboose definitely nailed Kham yesterday, but his lurking definitely puts him on the wolfy board. Hm... other than lurking, I can't find much to make him scummy. Well, except his post 10, in which he asks for a vote count before voting. Seems a little too cautious. Anyone know Caboose enough to know if not posting often is his style.

@Caboose: Why are you lurking so much in this game?

Sotty7 isn't tremendously scummy, but Sotty is on my list primarily because she hasn't posted much. She posts about as much as Caboose, but I feel Caboose has made much better points in his posts than she has. So, much like Caboose:

@Sotty7: Why are you lurking so much in this game?

Mastin: I don't like your style of play in general and have a generally null read on you. Since the mafia have it easy to just look for wolves and the wolves have the advantage of looking for mafia, it can seem like either side is *really* scum hunting. When it comes to you, Mastin, I feel like you made a bunch of big posts day 1, disappeared day 2, and to start off today, you're kind of are valid, but the mafia fishing still doesn't feel town... it feels like wolf searching for that last mafiaoso...

@Mastin: You're posting format seems kind of famous, but why is that you're not making a significant case on anyone? You seem kind of floating.

[Wulfy]

-Wulfy seems like the last Mafia goon.
-We still need to werewolf hunt,
-I'll be rereading to see what I can catch up on. We're looking for a two-some, not in any way related to Kham/Kore.

I feel inclined to ignore your conclusion solely because it's baseless.[/end of counter argument.]

On to other things:

Spidey senses are tingling - Tarballs and Sotty as wolves. Calling it now.

Any reasoning why me and him?

My picks for the third mafia are Sotty7 and Caboose. It has to be one of them, but I'll need to reread to be totally sure.

Has to be?

You know something I don't?

Vote: Tar

Sotty7 isn't tremendously scummy, but Sotty is on my list primarily because she hasn't posted much. She posts about as much as Caboose, but I feel Caboose has made much better points in his posts than she has. So, much like Caboose:

@Sotty7: Why are you lurking so much in this game?

*sigh*

I guess I have been lurking, looking at my post count (I thought I wasn't). There is a reason but it's not game related so I'll just say my bad and take the heat. Consider this my “will do better post” As for Caboose making “much better points” than me I will call BS. Caboose pretty much came on yesterday and echoed everything that had already been said by me (things you gave me props for yesterday remember) and others before asking for a vote count.

I want to see what great points he gave that weren't just him regurgitating what had been said by others.

I will look into timing. Since I read each of you in iso, I guess I should have checked the timing of those posts. If I have them reversed, I will be sure to correct that. Hm... in fact, lurking is my main issue with both of you, so it's unlikely you two are scum unless scum together. It would account for why Caboose would echo you as you claim.

But, I really haven't a shred of proof, and my general theory behind this game's mechanics favor otherwise. For this reason, I'm getting a vague Yos2-Mastin connection. I think that since Mastin's posts give me a head ache... I'm going to reread Yos2 instead. Oh, and I will give the timing of your and Caboose's posts a look at. If you're correct, then maybe OGML is right and caboose is the last mafia. If that is true, I see little reason to worry about Caboose-mafia since a wolf interests us today. *Sorry, this was my thought process, so if I lost you, just reread it as a thought train.*

@OGML: I don't follow your post's logic. In fact, I'm pretty sure its a logic error, if I catch your intended drift. To be simple, OGML, simplify whatever it is you're tryin to explain in post 232.

[Wulfy]

Noting Sotty's point on Caboose's posting, I did have it backwards. Still Sotty, as you have admitted, you haven't been too present in this game. Lurking aside, I think the last few posts have made pretty much everything clear.

Sotty, therefore Caboose, have been giving me vaguely town reads because of their statments. Sotty claims (and to an extent, I agree) that Caboose repeats (intentionally or not) several thing Sotty, or someone else, has said. While this is not super scummy, it definitely would be a viable scum tactic. I can see a townie doing the same thing is my point. However, I don't feel a connection with Caboose with anyone other than Sotty, and therefore, unless they are scum (wolf) together, I doubt either is scum. If one is scum and one isn't, I'd say that Sotty has a significantly better chance of being town. In this latter theory, since Sotty wouldn't have organized with Caboose, I think Caboose would be mafia. Since this chance is high, I am not terribly interested in Caboose or Sotty when there are bigger fish to fry. These two, specifically Caboose, is my default in case we cannot find wolf among these other players. (ie, they have a sensible defense, make a better case, or the lead runs dry.)

With these two (Sotty and Caboose), I feel that there is enough to suspect them, but aside from lurking, I can't really pin down both of them as scum together. I just don't get that vibe.

@Yos2: In post 226, I thought you meant you were talking with Mastin in a scum quicktopic. And that this reference was some code. Honestly, I just didn't follow your point. Now that I understand it (yay, stupidity over), I understand your point on Mastin. He has been absent, and as early as page 2 or 3, I believe Caboose mentioned that Mastin's posts were less frequent than in other games. Now to be fair, I would need to figure out if Mastin is Mastin-mafia or Mastin-Wolf.

Hm... Mastin-mafia and Mastin-Wolf would be similar, but in this game, Mastin of either one could legitimately scum hunt for mafia members, which would semi-negate this. The fact he has remained quiet tells me that, if he is mafia, that Mastin's issue is knowing something about the set up and being afraid to give that away. He could probably fake scum hunting.

Hm... I don't think that this provides us with anymore information than this: Mastin is likely to be some kind of scum.

Given that, who would be Mastin's partners? The two dead mafia members or someone still alive?

The other players are:
Caboose
Tarballs
UN
Sotty
Yos2
OGML

I can't imagine Caboose connected to anyone (afore mentioned) except to Sotty. It isn't impossible.

UN and OGML are completely remote to me. I'm not feeling them too much in this game, so I suppose either could be a partner to Mastin. Mastin followed OGML yesterday on the Kham lynch. UN later joined that lynch. On day 1 Mastin followed UN and OGML was right after Mastin.
Hm... yes, if Mastin is wolf, I think one of these two are most likely wolf with him. If Mastin is mafia... hm... I don't think he is mafia with Kham since he was a middle person on the lynch. Also, his early "gambit" with mafia today makes it very unlikely he's of that scum faction. He has no one to "warn" if he did. And the wolf would gain the most from their claim.

Hm...Yos2 isn't a possible partner.

Just realized i forgot Tarballs (despite the list... >.<)... I'll reread him.

So, my working theory is the following:

Mastin + OGML or UN for wolf
Caboose is the last mafia?

Vote Mastin

It makes the most sense.

[Wulfy]

Let's do a short version short:


1a Yosarian2 and Iamausername are the werewolves.
1b Wulfy is likely the last Mafia Goon.

2 Yos's meta case on me is full of holes and completely inaccurate.

3 We are a LONG way away from deadline; GIVE ME SOME TIME TO BUILD A SOLID CASE ON MY SUSPECTS.
4 Give me some time to ask the Mod a question or two vital to my defense.
5 The case of a Yos-Mastin pair is absolute ludicrous.
6 Anyone who hammers me before I have had a chance to explain why Yosarian and Iamausername are the scum...should fall under heavy scrutiny, for I could be wrong with this opinion.

I numbered the above.
1a: Okay...I'm listening. Give me a case and I'll see what I think."
1b: This is false.
2: Hm.... I don't know about this exactly, and your sole defense is meta... I think your play, regardless of alignment would be to lose the meta defense and just constantly play aggressive. Oh, and post in some sort of understandable format.
3. You deserve this, I agree.
4. Bah?
5. I can agree with this since I don't see it. I feel that Yos2 was going at you pretty heavily, and while I thought his post was really scummy, after I understood the context, I realized he was actually slamming you with meta (which is apparently your favorite defense as a cursory glance of your play history shows.)
6. You are correct that Yos2 and UN could be scum. I would like to hear this. I don't think whoever hammers you is scum, since I feel comfortable you are scum.

Out of some good faith, however, I will temporarily suspend my vote.

Unvote

You might have a really strong point, so I would like to withhold my vote to see if you can prove that with a good, logical case. I must warn you though, I don't buy this meta defense bull shit. (Pardon the expression.)

[Wulfy]

Just popping in from my BlackBerry to mention that I am nearing 100% certainty on Yos2 being a bad guy of some flavor.

Wulfy please explain why Mastin and Yos2 could not be partners.

I don't think Yos2 would be going on Mastin so hard if they were. It isn't impossible, but on my reading it, I just don't see it at all.*

*As below, after reading early page 11, I conceived of how it was possible. This is a response to the above. My thought changes below, and I am aware of that.

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

Pretty sure Mastin-wolf indicates Yos2-wolf. Yay bussing.

I still disagree because of above, but it isn't impossible. I suppose at this point, however, Mastin appears so scummy, that a partner would bus pretty hard. I guess if Yos2 knew that Mastin was scum, he could have been hard on Mastin (hoping for a masterstroke-esque defense?) because of the disappearing act yesterday.

Ebwop as this was meant to go first.

[Wulfy]

You weren't on the Kham wagon either so all this applies to you too right?

Yes, I suppose it does. I am also a potential mafia, but from my point of view it's clear that I am not mafia.

Yeah, I think you are wolf. Not sure who I would peg as the last mafia.

This bothers me because you seem unconcerned with the other wolf. This means that either you know who the other wolf is OR you are bussing your partner so didn't think of it. This could be a slip, but I may be reading too much into it.

Also, Two days (about) is more than enough.

Vote Mastin

If someone agrees with my thoughts on Sotty, do tell. I'm not sure if that is just me reading the wording too closely, but I think that the odds Sotty could potentially be bussing are high (based on wording, again, I need other's opinions on that.)

[Wulfy]

I see your point Sotty. It just seemed that your concern is just on finding 1 wolf (versus 2), but I really understand now since you explained conversation now. I feel silly for finding it suspicious actually.

[Wulfy]

Caboose misquoted, that was me, and I have had that clarified so scratch that. It was a reach, in hindsight, but I wasn't understanding the conversation flow, so more like player error. This is why I ask and don't insta-vote.

As for Tarballs'

Secondly

, I think he's right. OGML and Mastin have both done this action (attacking by association), which makes it very likely that one of them is scum with Yos2 and are trying to get a mislynch. They then expect the mislynch (=not wolf) would then result in Yos2 being unlikely wolf. Thus, they would get +scumhunting point and their (whoever is the actual wolf) partner would be free for that day, ensuring the last mislynch needed to win.

This ascertains my reasons to vote Mastin. However, Tarballs doers have a point I made earlier. When Mastin was no show, I was ready to lynch him again, but in light of Mastin's latest post (along with time to think about it),

Unvote

.

I apologize for my aggression simply cause I'm stuck in the mindset that we're playing a game were the bad guys lie.

[Wulfy]

As for Tarballs'

Secondly

, I think he's right. OGML and Mastin have both done this action (attacking by association), which makes it very likely that one of them is scum with Yos2 and are trying to get a mislynch. They then expect the mislynch (=not wolf) would then result in Yos2 being unlikely wolf. Thus, they would get +scumhunting point and their (whoever is the actual wolf) partner would be free for that day, ensuring the last mislynch needed to win.

What you are saying here is simultaneously "Mastin and Yos2 look like scum partners" and "OGML is scummy for suggesting that Mastin and Yos2 look like scum partners". Problematic.

See also: Wulfy keeps voting and unvoting Mastin, because he can't decide if Mastin is a lost cause that he needs to bus + Mastin declares Wulfy as the last mafia, which achieves all the benefits of distancing, without the setback of increasing the chance of losing his partner.

Calling Mastin/Wulfy as the wolf pair.

First, don't tell me what I'm saying.

Second, I am actually going along with Tarballs, who would rather Mastin not be lynched until he has a chance to present his case which may/may not give new light on the situation.

Third, I made a conclusion based on logic Tarballs presented. I figured that if it were not both OGML and Mastin saying the same thing about Yos2 (and just one of them), then my logic works. I argue my logic still works for either being wolf scum. Since Mastin is far scummier than OGML, and I don't see a case on Yos2 (as the above is just a theory), Mastin is the logical lynch. If/when Mastin flips scum-wolf, then we should go back and trace Yos2 (and possibly OGML?) to be his potential scum partner. If he flips scum-mafia, then we are in lylo tomorrow, and we still have leads on OGML, Caboose (who would then not be written off as mafia-scum as I suggested), and Yos2 (who can be given another glance).

[Wulfy]

*jabs Mastin*

Now it just seems like you're stalling...

[Wulfy]

Vote Mastin

At this point, the answer is obvious.

Caught scum.

[Wulfy]

Okay. So let's do this very simply because I am tired.
One:
Mastin has failed to convince me of anything except he, much like Zwetchenwasser and Empking, is a special kind of stupid.

Two:
If Mastin and Yos2 are scum together, I will change my avatar to whatever either of them would want for a year. If a pair of wolves (As 2/3 mafia are dead) could actually do this, I will have, for the first time, actually feel completely and utterly outclassed.

Three:
I'm slightly more comfortable with a Mastin lynch than a Yos2 lynch, BUT the serious issue, in my opinion, is that I haven't a clue how to do this mathematically. I realize that two a decent extent, both of them are scummy. I'd estimate at least 40%. I am going to presume that, at the very least, they are not scum together. I have decided that OGML (I believe) and Mastin are probably the last two wolves trying to lynch who they think the last mafia is. I think, therefore, that Yos2's scumminess is a reason Mastin would attack him. It could be I just don't know Yos2's playing style. But basing off what the other says, Mastin and Yos2 heavily suspect each other, and while some of each's reasons are complete bullshit, each raises very valid points on the other.

I am able to go for a Mastin lynch, and he is who I support today. I think that, if he flips wolf, OGML is a very viable partner. If Mastin isn't wolf, than Yos2 is a possible next in line... but since i can't connect him to anybody, I can't see Yos2 as wolf....

Gah... maybe a lurker like Caboose...?

Thoughts anyone on possible wolf team? And don't forget the last mafia! Keep him on the back burner!

[Wulfy]

Pro-tip, Mastin: Lying about what people have said dosn't work in forum mafia.

Next time you're scum,

I would avoid it.

I'm not liking the bolded part very much. Based on my limited experience, only scum use that line.

I am able to go for a Mastin lynch, and he is who I support today.

I think we can all figure that from the fact that you're currently on his wagon. Also, why do you believe OGML to be the second wolf?

If Mastin isn't wolf, than Yos2 is a possible next in line... but since i can't connect him to anybody, I can't see Yos2 as wolf....

That is a good point.


Mastin, if you have any final words that we need to hear, now would be the time to talk. Or have you given up?

I realize this next point is post hoc but he just accused OGML of being scum with his wolf team suspicions (Yos2 and IAUN) despite claiming I am a mafia member for days. Does this not strike you as odd?

I mentioned earlier similarities between Mastin's play and OGML's play.

I think I'm ready to draw this conclusion:
Mastin-Wolf
OGML-wolf
Yos2-mafia

[Wulfy]

UN, that actually makes sense with Caboose. However, I can't think of anyone who was not active yesterday that would have to also have been inactive to miss their chance for a night kill.

Hm...

Maybe someone under suspicion was afraid that killing anyone would suggest they were mafia too heavily and decided not to kill anyone at all?

I'm unsure...

[Wulfy]

Mastin was slightly more helpful in this last post than all game.

Anyway, Caboose has been lurking the most so:

Vote Caboose

That's the best I got for today.

[Wulfy]

2 and 2 eh? Hm... one of em be scum since there isn't a quick lynch yet...or scum is already on the wagon?

Hm... I can't complain about a Tarballs lynch too much simply because the case is at least partially valid. My main preference for Caboose deals with the lack of a kill this previous night.

Hm...why would tarballs fit that? Sotty, UN?

[Wulfy]

one of em be scum since there isn't a quick lynch yet...

Nope, not lylo today. (Would have been if the wolves had made a kill, though).

Wasn't the wolf thing. I was just thinking three scum =lylo. I didn't disassociate scum from each other. My bad.

I also don't like the scent of this whole situation...

I won't unvote cause enough people have posted without a follow up vote, and if Caboose is scum, I think he won't be voting himself, so I am fine with my vote at the moment.

The tarballs support isn't all that shocking since town/wolf/mafia Tarballs would all make sense to support a lynch, even his partner given his play and the signs pointing to his involvement.

I dunno, just don't like it.

[Wulfy]

In other news, I could also go with a Caboose lynch, since he's going to be lynched at some point anyway and this game is pretty much lost if he doesn't flip wolf.

Unvote, Vote: Caboose

That should be 3 votes on Caboose and 2 votes on me.

So your soul reason for dropping your 100% vote on Yos seems to because Caboose is going to be lynched at some point and to bump him above you in the vote tally.

Weak.

I think I somehow only saw him voting Caboose and completely missed what was obviously flawed and scummy reasoning.

Okay, Sotty. I think you've swayed me with this point (intentionally or not) so:

Unvote; Vote Tarballs

For the same reasons Caboose is likely wolf, Tarballs is wolf. Also, Sotty's point in the above post makes it slightly more likely Tarballs is scum.

[Wulfy]

Well, Caboose and Tarballs are nearly tied at the top of my scum list... I think it's entirely possible that they are scum together.

If they're not, then there is one other theory I can think of, but it seems contrived and stupid.

Meh...if Caboose and Tarballs are mafia, we got lucky. Still, I smell a rat. Seems too easy...

Gah, I hate these situations...

I'm stickin' to my guns and maintaining my vote. If someone can convince me of Caboose>tar, I can still switch, but right now, Tar looks slightly worse.

[Wulfy]

Hm...
Might be that new feeling Hero still has attached, but his play is just interesting...

I can't even fault what he is saying cause it is all pretty much the truth. Yos' only points against him is taking abstract points Hero makes and taking them literally.

On the other hand, this could be two scum partners bickering?

Hm... let me think...
4T 2W 1M
I think Tarballs is wolf. Ideally, this would lead to
3T 1W 1M
His likely partner would be Caboose/Hero
3T 0W 1M
Again, ideal. This should make weeding out the last mafia member a piece of cake. And that assumes Wolf doesn't strike down the last mafia member for us. I have a few suspicions on who this person is, but for now, I'll continue to focus on the wolf.

So, the other option is...
Tarballs is mafia or town. For worst case purposes, I will just guess that he is town if not wolf.
So...
2T 2W 1M
This is less than ideal..but mafia will definitely assist us. Let us say we hit wolf to avoid loss.
If Wolves hit mafia, they win. If not, they lose. So that last wolf will never unleash an attack that night.
2T 1W 1M
If we hit anyone other than wolf, we lose.

The other option would be we lynch a mafia today:
3T 2W
which is lylo...


Okay, so, given the above, I am okay with the following plan based on my suspicions:

lynching Caboose/Tarballs today. I prefer the former at the moment. Also, Caboose's replacement, Hero, seems fairly town to me at the moment... based on the circumstance of absentees, he is suspicious. If Tarballs is wolf, either Yos2 or Caboose are his likely partner. Hero has pointed out that Yos2 is his most likely partner. Despite the wifom involved, logic states that due to the no kill, Yos2 is also a likely candidate for a scum buddy with either one of Tarballs and Caboose.

So, my question is reduced to who among Tarballs, Caboose, and Yos2 is innocent assuming two of them are guilty.

Tarballs/Caboose
Yos2/either

At the moment, my current plan is this:
Lynch Tarballs. If town/mafia, lynch Caboose. If Caboose is a wolf, then lynch Yos2.
Lynch tarballs. If Wolf, lynch Yos2. if wolves are still alive, lynch Caboose.

OR

Lynch Caboose. If town/mafia, lynch Tarballs. If Tarballs is wolf, lynch Yos2.
Lynch Caboose. If wolf, lynch Yos2. If wolves are still alive, lynch Tarballs.

basically, my plan is the same for both of them.

I am about 80% sure 2/3 of them is scum. I am about 70% that those 2 scum are wolves.

Thoughts anyone?

[Wulfy]

OGML, where's the support on that claim?

Also, I am [fake]Vote Hero[/fake] as I promised. If one wasn't scum, the other has at least a 60% chance of being wolf.

I understand that Yos2 makes a logical common denominator, but is he a better lynch than Hero? Or do you think that the lack of a kill was an attempt by wolves to shift blame on the least active of this game's players? Also possible: Do you think Yos2 is just as likely to be the inactive wolf as is Hero? Or does it not even factor into your equation?

[Wulfy]

Yosarian

Hero is the common denominator of all the wolf teams that I think make sense. Still pretty much sure that

iamausername

Wulfy is town. Gonna re read.

Is that your opinion, or are you being argumentative on OGML's positions?

[Wulfy]

EBWOP: I am ignoring the above argument in terms of presenting commentary. I wanna see more on there interaction.

[Wulfy]

Okay, at this point all I am really feeling from the Yos2 vs Hero is some heavy distancing...

Yos2's point on both being inactive makes himself, OGML, or (maybe) UN. On one hand, I am forced to believe this with 67% accuracy:

Yos2 and Caboose (now Hero) would be forced to slam each other as there is a 100% chance one of them would be scum today.

The remaining 33% assumes either one of them maybe scum with someone else and are trying hard to make it through this one day.

The odds are in favor that their scum together, so I'll keep my pseudo vote on Hero.

[Wulfy]

What do you mean where do I get that? My theory yesterday states that between the three of Tarballs, Yos2, and Hero (caboose) there is (essentially) a 100% chance of at least one scum. I can't even fathom the contrary. Today, one of those people (Tarballs) is gone, so why would my reasoning not continue to say my above statement that concludes a 100% chance of wolf between you and Hero. I feel that you're reaching Yos2.

[Wulfy]

You're argument is self-destructive. Even you just acknowledged my deduction:

Plus, both OGML and Iamusername have looked pretty pro-town to me this game. That really just leaves you and Hero.

This is part of my sentiments exactly. Maybe, you're town. However, that doesn't explain why your paranoia. I stated that between you and Hero there is a 100% chance of scum. I didn't intend this to mean the scum team. That has a 67% chance of being correct.

So, we both think that UN and OGML is town. You are attacking me because I'm making the obvious deduction that Hero and Yos2 is scum? Also, I was attacking Hero, Tarballs, and you yesterday. One of the things that push me to vote him is his hammer. What exactly did you expect me to do? Unvote? Say:
Oh, well, I said if Tarballs flipped town that I would vote Hero tomorrow, but he hammered, so maybe I was wrong?

I mean, really. You're creating a giant ball of speculation based on conjecture and nonsense. Then again, you might be caught scum who is trying his best bet, which is to attack anyone with baseless speculation...

It's not impossible, but I still wanna continue picking through other potential pairings. One can be wrong, you know.

[Wulfy]

So this is how I see it happening.

1. We lynch hero today. He flips scum, as he obviously will.

2. OGML dosn't get killed tonight, even though he's obvtown, for the same reason you've been keeping him alive all game; because you want him to vote for me in endgame.

3. OGML then has to make a decision. You figured you had it in the bag, especally if you tie me to hero strongly enough, and especally with OGML's game-long suspicions of me. I don't think he's that manipulatable, though.

Well, I guess we'll find out.

Vote:Hero

I think this is you trying to set up a lynch for tomorrow. Now, it wouldn't matter who the wolf kills because according to your theory, I'm guilty. If you, who I am now completely certain is a wolf, kill OGML, you'll simply claim that because of the above post, I killed OMGL to look better in UN's eyes. If you kill UN, you'll claim I left OGML alive as you predicted, and with this much projection and speculation, even I'd be confused (if I were either UN or OGML).

I am, however, assuming that *if* you were a wolf, then you couldn't kill me.

You've done nothing today but throw up pure speculation to confuse everyone for the lylo situation, which will definitely have either you or Hero (assuming both are scum). If this is 100% accurate, you're entire act today has been the scummiest play all day. Not to even MENTION your broad strokes of my recent game play, such as how my "play yesterday and today is exactly how I'd think scum would act."

You're casting soft doubt and tossing up more and more speculation. In *fact*, the only person you have attacked strongly or defended well against is Hero. My guess is that this is due to some plan concocted N4 due to the screw up no-kill you and Caboose had N3.

NOTE: All the above assumes Yos2 and Caboose (hero) is the scum team.

Now, as for why I voted Tarballs yesterday:
Copy pasted from IAUN's voting post yesterday:
1) Huge inconsistency in his opinion on fallen angel.
2) Another incosistency as to whether people should have to provide their own reasoning to join a bandwagon.
3) Spent D3 repeatedly saying "need to hunt us some wolves", but at no point actually did anything about it.
4) Carefully avoided taking a side in the Yos/Mastin bust-up.

As I have also said: For the same reasons Caboose looks like wolf, Tarballs looked like wolf. And in my next post, I stated that Caboose and Tar were nearly tied, but I leaned slightly toward Tar that day. I even stated, however, that Tar+Caboose was my fav scum pair, but you got wound up as you were the next scummiest player.

Plus, you didn't have an issue with my vote yesterday. If you did, why not bring it up? Instead of explaining why any of our votes were wrong (UN, mine, and well...I guess Sotty would have wanted to get wolf too), you simply kept attacking Hero.

Plus, should I have quoted UN? How would that have strengthened my argument? If it wouldn't, why are you not questioning UN?

Also, I just realized your argument is flawed. In my reread, I came across UN's post in isolation:

Yosarian

Hero is the common denominator of all the wolf teams that I think make sense. Still pretty much sure that

iamausername

Wulfy is town. Gonna re read.

OGML: Yos=scum. IAUN=Town.
IAUN: Hero=scum. Wulfy=Town.

You presented a grand logical fallacy in your earlier wifom that I already attack as a "damned either way" ploy to cast doubt on me and my play all game. However, the basis is illogical because one player thinks your guilty and the other thinks I'm town. We both have a town read on them, therefore YOU are my obvious target. And you use this to attack me when you drew the same conclusion (if you were town)? Weak.

[Wulfy]

I think this is you trying to set up a lynch for tomorrow

Funny you would say that, when that's all you've been doing all day. I had wanted to just lynch Hero and move on, but you have been acting so scummy.

Point 1: "I just wanted to lynch Hero and move on." ~Yos2
This=Scummy. You prove, as much as this game allows you, that a person is scum then lynch them. You don't seem very interested in that considering this sentence.
Point 2: "You have been acting so scummy." ~Y2
A broad generalization without any facts to back it up as a statement.

Now, it wouldn't matter who the wolf kills because according to your theory, I'm guilty. If you, who I am now completely certain is a wolf, kill OGML, you'll simply claim that because of the above post, I killed OMGL to look better in UN's eyes. If you kill UN, you'll claim I left OGML alive as you predicted, and with this much projection and speculation, even I'd be confused (if I were either UN or OGML).

Well, of course we know you won't die, because you're the wolf. And of course we know I won't die, because you've been trying to set up my mislynch all day.

So now you're saying that if you die, I'm scum because if I was scum, I would purposely kill you to confuse who, in your hypothetical, is the remaining town in OGML and IAUN. If I were scum, you're not making a difficult case, your painting me red. Essentially, you've made it seem like no matter the night kill, unless I die, I'm scum. That is...well, I have to admit that it is a prime wolf move in your position. However, I am very certain that the town (assuming it *is* OGML and IAUN, as I feel and you suggest with your inside knowledge) won't fall for your "WIFOM games" sense that is the number 1 scum tell as far as my Book is concerned.

By the way, that "who I'm now completly certain is a wolf" line is a dead giveaway. You're scum, wolfy. Earlier, you were pretending to try to look at things with an open mind, and now that I've cut down your options, you're just going after me. Fine. Bring it, scum.

Cut down what options? You've don no such thing. I said yesterday that Tarballs and Hero (Caboose) was the likely scum pair. If scum was not this team, then you were the likely partner with either. I cut my own options down by deductive reasoning, which is the town thing to do. ALSO, if you were town, you wouldn't be cutting someone's options down (in terms of who to attack). You would have an open mind, or at least explain why your theory is better. However, you're trapped. You know your partner's caught, so you had to pick someone else for his partner. What fails, however, is that I am very active in this game. I post once per day and haven't missed anything. So explain how I would have missed a night kill. In your hypothetical, my partner would be Caboose. He hasn't been the most active player all game, so do you really think someone who visits this site every day would just miss the night kill action? Despite the 2 or 3 days one would have an opportunity to make the night kill? No. That fits your profile slightly better. And the only person who it fits better is Caboose AND Tarballs or Yos2. You, Yos2, did know you would be going to the Beach. And sure, maybe you could have sent in a pre-nk, but you would have known Caboose was around. You probably even reminded him, but you didn't know he would flake. Or, you might not have thought about. You could have forgotten to actually sent the PM. I *don't* know why you missed it, but I do know that if your wolf, as I suspect, then you missed it.

If OGML and Iamusername are town, then you must be scum, of course. That wasn't the only thing I used to attack you, though. I also thing that how hard you were trying to draw a connection between me and Hero is incredibly scummy.

Ignoring the whole center mesh cause if you didn't understand it then I can't possibly make you understand it. However, on this last tid bit, I can retort with this:
Drawing connections. It's called "scum hunting" and is therefore pro town and not scummy. Oh, and you should take your own advice, if I am scum, then you better explain to me how your town, because then I know who my next guess is. Just, right now, you're doing a really shitty job of defending yourself, so I'm kind of hoping your not town for my own sanity. If you flip town... I'm going to be so pissed with myself.

AH!, I did think of something! I'm not voting Hero because there is a still a small chance that he's not scum and you are. It is small, but not impossible. If that is the case, I'll stick with my pseudo vote until I am ready to say Hero is scum. I won't let a quick hammer happen, not yet.

[Wulfy]

Really, everyone reading this game now should be completly confident that either I am town and Hero is scum, or that me and hero are both scum. There are no other possibilities; Hero simply must be scum here. So can we please just lynch him already?

I'm absolutely convident that he's scum, but I'm not ready to lynch him until I'm satisfied that you and Wulfy are actually giving serious consideration to the possibility that OGML is his partner.

Huh? Hm...

If Yos2 is town as he suggests, then OGML's the actual only partner for Hero. UN has been as active as I am, which means that the odds UN would miss the night kill is zero. Maybe I'm stretching here, but after the above counter arguments by Yos2, he does seem too meticulous to miss something like this, even if he was V/LA.

I finally ceased being lazy and glanced through a Yos game or two. He's a fairly experienced player, and while that kind of amateurish mistake can happen to anyone, I doubt he'd not think of it after having it happen in a game he modded. He would be overly careful about such things, and there is no danger in that since it would not be seen by town.

I am going to do two more things before placing my vote:
Mod confirmation that he would have accepted a pre-sent night kill.

As for the night phase, I am going to reread OGML in isolation as a possible scum partner for Caboose. Also, I will read their interactions as UN has pointed out to check for potential scum pair.

I'm also going to look at Yos2's end game as scum in another game if I can find one I like, just to be a little more reassured he's town.

[Wulfy]

Interesting.

Actually, after that last post of Iamusername, I am absolulty 100% convinced he's town now; if he was scum I would expect him to encourage me and wolfy to fight.

And I do agree, we really need to hear from OGML before we end the day. He's been way too quiet.

Smartest thing you've said. If I successfully had you lynched with a town flip, I think I would simply die...

My records bad enough from everyone acting prematurely. As before mentioned, CJMiller was an idiot in another game I played. Lynched without a real case.

In the one that just finished, the town just decided to ignore my counter claim as doctor (I was) and randomly lynched a townie in lylo. I think I should learn from these mistakes and slow down.

So yes, slowing down is a good thing, particularly waiting for OGML. Oh, and I am still waiting on the Mod to reply.

[Wulfy]

Good news:

*Data confirms that Yos2 isn't lying. However, it requires a stipulation such as a V/LA. Given that Caboose wasn't exactly trust worthy, I could see wolf-Yos2 acting early. After a mild review of his play as scum, he is far too...methodical to f**k that up so badly, so the odds he is a forgetful wolf are virtually zero. Since I can't find any reason for him to intentionally not kill, I will make the assumption he is town.

*By deduction, OGML is far more suspect than IAUN.

*

Vote Hero

for several reasons. 1. I initially deduced that within Yos2, Caboose, and Tarballs was the wolf team. I felt 100% certain of this fact. However, UN has brought forth a need to reconsider OGML. Since Yos2 has defended my attacks and suspicions unbelievably well, I hgihly doubt he is scum. Plus, metagame evidence also supports the idea he wouldn't have screwed up. So, I'm gunning for OGML+Hero, with hero being the more obvious scum.

@UN: Do you agree or do you think OGML might be a partner to someone else, and thus, Hero is the wrong lynch?

[Wulfy]

If the mod wanted to replace OGML before night ended, then why not just prolong night until a replacement is found?

*sighs*
I have no idea why my post is deleted, but I'm just not going to post again until Data posts and states that OGML has been replaced.

[Wulfy]

OGML is cleared, but since the mod would have just deleted and ignored your hammer, it's mostly null. However, the odds you are scum are virtually zero as Yos2 pointed out.

Next time I know, don't let Yos2's smooth talking distract from what fits.

Vote Yos2

Sorry Yos. Still, I can't help but feel you got screwed out of a potential win today.

[Wulfy]

Lol. Nice try, wolfy.

By the way, in case you were wondering, this was the final nail in your coffin.

If the mod wanted to replace OGML before night ended, then why not just prolong night until a replacement is found?

*sighs*

The point when you were upset that the mod accidently confirmed OGML as town was the final thing that made me confident enough to vote you this quickly.

Anger? Of course I'm angry! I am overly competitive and cheating isn't my idea of winning. If your scum, your might be very well capable of pulling out more BS than me to support a case based on logic, emotions, opinions, diction and whatever the hell else is lying around. If OGML were scum (while the mod essentially confirmed him), his experience might lead the same thing. However, I cannot stand winning a game (should OGML make the correct choice and vote you) by what I chalk up to cheating, an unfair advantage. I know this seems like a load of bull, but I would be so willing to go for game abandonment. Winning isn't everything. It's fairly beating your opponent. People being stupid isn't a reason to win or lose. Especially if its the moderator's fault. CJmiller? That didn't make it fair for town. I have that moron, but at least he was part of the game. A moderator error like that? One that essentially proves OGML is town?

You know what...if OGML is a wolf.... I will quit playing this game. F*cking cheap shots. Stupid morons. It's all such a waste.

[Wulfy]

Well, I feel bad because without all these shenanigans there was a pretty decent chance I would have ended up being the lynch today.

So, I'll repeat what got deleted earlier and say that I don't think the Yos v. Hero thing was a charade, and I don't think there is any way they could be scumpartners.

Which leaves me with my

Vote: Wulfy

You played a very good game. I thought you were town basically the entire time. (Its going to be very sad and ironic if you are town and I got totally taken by Yos.) I'll have more to say once the game is officially over.

I understand. I rethought my strategy and aimed to get you lynched and have you and Yos get in a tiff. I would be amiable and pensive today. Unfortunately, I feel royally screwed by your confirmation, and I really did think about self voting. I just couldn't break the rule I have "always play to the win condition."

Yos2, I won't say you deserve the win this game because I honestly don't know who should have won. I will say, however, that your play up until yesterday was by far the worst play I have seen from any player I have ever played with except for Exalt and Mastin. Your play yesterday is the best I have ever seen. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

I personally don't feel I lost as much as I was cheated. The essential mod confirmation screwed me, and I wouldn't have missed the night kill, but the mod didn't respond for days, and I couldn't imagine a mod would receive a note from a wolf, which does not include a night kill, about his partner's absence, and then start the game so soon after receiving it. The only thing that makes me angry about this is that I PMed Datadonne 2 days prior to deadline, and he didn't respond until about the time he reopened the thread. I responded to his reply as soon as I got it, but when I went to my other game, I found the gamethread opened, but...grr...

whatever...

Data: I like you as...commentary. Therefore, I might like you as a person/player. However, I don't really care for your modding style...at all. I understand you may have skimmed my letter, but the core of it asked you that IF YOU WERE GOING to replace OGML, do it before night ends. I *knew* that it would screw me for OGML to be replaced. The PM to OGML with a failure to replace seems like a direct contradiction to my request. The deleting of game posts is a serious violation of moderator ethics, and I just generally frown upon the close in this game.

Anyway, that's all the comments I have on this game. After this, I am dropping mafia for a while.