Past Ages Mafia - Game Over

[Kmd4390]

Can't believe no one has done this yet.

Vote Braeden

[Kmd4390]

Vote Empking/Ortolan

For voting three times already

Vote Raider

just to change your vote.

[Kmd4390]

Vote: Kmd4390

The Cardinal's just lost the Super Bowl!

Yeah. Wasn't that Santonio Holmes TD one of the greatest TDs you have ever seen? Great game.

[Kmd4390]

Why ortolan is so sure Empking is town?

I think a better question is why vote him if you are so sure he is town?

[Kmd4390]

I'm pretty sure the distribution's random, makes no sense for it to be anything but. What we need to figure out is whether we want to lynch based on who's the single scummiest player, or lynch a pair where both heads are somewhat scummy (unless the scummiest player has a scummy partner, in which case problem solved).

I'd say the most likely individual player to be scum should be lynched while keeping in mind who their second head is.

For example, if one player seems like they absolutely have to be scum, lynch them. But if their partner seems overly protown, maybe we leave them for tomorrow when we are playing basically a different kind of game.

[Kmd4390]

Would a cop investigating their second head count as them trying to investigate them self?

I doubt it.

[Kmd4390]

Actually, now that I think about it that brings up an interesting question. When we're close to a lynch, how should we deal with claims? I think it makes sense to formally decide this before we get near a bandwagon that would allow scum to manipulate claim process based on who likely lynch will be.

I'd say only the scummy player needs to claim, but I don't want to see a power role lynched just for being attached to a scummy player, so I guess both should claim. Or maybe the scummy player should claim and the second head should answer "yes" or "no" to claiming without adding anything that the scum can use.

[Kmd4390]

I agree with this plan.. although I am not sure how we would decide who is the scummiest?

Same as any other game...?

[Kmd4390]

On a more serious note,

unvote vote UROE

for suggesting a no lynch. UR, what makes you think we'll stay in any game type for longer than one day? Even if it were true, don't you think we're much better off going into d2 with some info, even at the price of a possible mislynch?

I was waiting for this.

The no lynch is a valid discussion in a game like this. The normal consensus is that no lynch Day 1 is always bad. Easy for scum to jump on someone for that.

Unvote, Vote Raging Rabbit

As for the discussion itself, I am slightly against no lynch because it gives the scum a free kill. I can see the merit behind it because a double mislynch obviously isn't great.

Um, what's to be unsure about? Suppose we do have another two-headed day tommorow - would we really be better off if we no lynched today? We'll be in more or less the same position we're in right now. What would you suggest then, another no lynch?

I really don't expect another double headed day. But no, if it were to happen, no lynch a second time would be terrible. Assuming only one anti-town faction, but both heads dying via NK, that's 4 dead townies with no chance of hitting scum.

Actually, with that in mind, let's look at today. No lynch would give us 2 dead townies assuming both heads die and no chance of hitting scum. Any other killing roles makes it possible that 4 townies die at night. This is true regardless of what happens during the day. If we lynch someone, two people will die. So at worst, a lynch gives us 4-6 dead townies. At best, 2 dead townies, 2 dead scum (or even 4 dead scum in there is a second killing role and two pairs of attached scum). A no lynch still gives us the chance of cross-kill or vig-kill if there are other killing roles, but if not, we can't hit scum at all.

I think lynching is the right move today.

Oh, I thought that was somehow part of your hypothetical situation in which a no lynch would be good. So, if the game works like we all think it does and we switch to another system tommorow, why no lynch?

The reason for a no lynch would be that we wouldn't have to sacrifice a possible townie to lynch scum, and we could just lynch the same scummy player tomorrow.

I guess the idea looks pretty appealing seeing all the support it's getting

, so I'm not sure how much of it tell it was of UR to suggest it, but no lynching is a terrible idea. It really doesn't matter what game we'll be in tommorow, giving the scum a free night and starting tommorow with close to no info far outweighs the disadvantage of a slightly more dangerous d1 lynch.

Please clarify the bolded.

Ort, yes you said you were joking, but it doesn't tell us 100% that you are being truthful. It is up for judgement. And Emp voted Brandi twice in a row to move your vote off of him. His actions are justified regardless of your intent.

Wish my other head would post more...

[Kmd4390]

It's not a valid suggestion, for reasons I already detailed and Lawrencelot just explained very well. Your analysis arrived to the same obvious conclusion, as well.

I disagree with a no lynch. I'm with you there. But it's worth discussing, and to vote UROE for bringing it up looks like jumping on the first thing you see.

I would say a no lynch d1 is always bad for the town, but given the nature of this game it's easier for scum to throw the idea around and hope the town will bite.

There are certain games where it is worth discussing. I'm not sure I've seen one where it's a good idea, but the discussion coming up isn't exactly scummy.

...which is a bad argument. Sacrificing a possible townie to lynch a prime suspect is vastly superior to doing nothing. And, of course, we're likely to find a pair of two players we consider scummy, which throws this argument out the window. Maybe if we only had one suspect paired with a very protown looking second head I would see this as a legitimate argument, but even then it's a rather poor one.

Yes, a double-scummy-player lynch is ideal. Yeah, I pretty much agree with most of this.

Many people supported no lynch, I doubt all of them are scum. Therefore, the idea apparantly has serious appeal (probably based on the scare element of two townies possibly dying today), which means UR suggesting it is likely misguided rather than scummy. However, reviewing UR's posts, I dislike how the suggestion was very tentative - he kept checking to see if the town supports it, while I'd expect a townie genuinely convinced of the idea to actually vote no lynch - and also how his last post is a two liner calling Santos (who supports no lynch) a moron and saying nothing about my counter arguments.

Ok, I wanted clarification on the "looks appealing" thing. So you meant that it looks like townies are agreeing with the idea, NOT that it was tempting because other people were agreeing with it. And you are on UROE for specifics, not just because he suggested the no lynch, correct?

Unvote

I think I follow what you are saying, and actually agree with quite a bit of it.

I agree with my other heads vote right now, and will get back on later with a post that is a little more substantial.

Even after his last post?

[Kmd4390]

same; I never self-vote in a "normal" game as a result.

Is Crush Mafia a game you consider normal?

[Kmd4390]

RR, you have a decent point, but a decent point is different from a decent case.

[Kmd4390]

RR, you have a decent point, but a decent point is different from a decent case.

Call it whatever you want, I think it's decent for early D1.

I'll give you that.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd, I think your other head wants your tonsils.

Seems that way...

[Kmd4390]

I recognize that, I was still assuming you were saying that comparing my play was breaking a rule.

Really, search it if you want to see what he is talking about.

I see how it could break a rule in the other game, but I'm going to keep quiet on that...

[Kmd4390]

Ort's vote on Slicey seemed acceptable to me. The fact that Emp was so quick to change it could mean Ort voted his (Emp's) scumbuddy.

@KMD
Why that avatar???

Super Bowl bet. Dahill picked it and it has to stay up for a month.

Tajo is playing his typical Day 1 IMO. Throw out opinions, but not a lot of reason. Doesn't mean town. Doesn't mean scum.

[Kmd4390]

but considering he was in as a replacement and not from the beginning,

I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Why?

[Kmd4390]

Ort's vote on Slicey seemed acceptable to me. The fact that Emp was so quick to change it could mean Ort voted his (Emp's) scumbuddy.

Why am I scummy for moving his vote but not him for moving my vote?

He had a decent reason to vote.

but considering he was in as a replacement and not from the beginning, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Why?

I think I'm using that expression right...

Anyway, read what I wrote.

How does someone play differently just because they replace into a game instead of playing from the beginning?

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: I'm not saying they're completely different playstyles, but depending on when he replaced in - middle or at the end, there's a lot of situations that he wasn't there to experience and to more accurately get a meta on him.

You can still take meta from where he

was

there.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not saying you can't. o_O

@URoE's meta: I'll take a glance at the game, but considering he was in as a replacement and not from the beginning, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

[Kmd4390]

That's interesting...

I don't think I play any differently when I replace in.

[Kmd4390]

Someone asked me what I agreed with KMD about ages ago that I changed my mind about. I believe it was concerning

his

vote on RR. I agreed with it until he made a post that convinced me otherwise. KMD also unvoted after that post.

[Kmd4390]

Well Braeden does seem pretty scummy. I'll admit that. But that's my second head, so I'm against the lynch. Even if Braeden is scum, there are other scum in the game who I'd rather lynch. But yeah, I can see myself going after Braeden tomorrow.

Vote Animorph/Slicey

I'm kind of torn between No Lynch idea. D1 NL's are almost always bad because then we have very little to go on D2. However, if we lynch, we have to possibility of losing 4 townies (two on the lynch and two at night.)

I'm more in favor of a lynch, but I'm not throwing the NL idea out the window.

See both sides, but never take one. This accomplishes a few things. First, you look active. Second, your stance isn't scummy because you don't have one.

Ort is stupid for thinking odd means scummy. >___>

I'm not really getting any scum vibes from anybody. A little from ort, but not for any real reason other than that he's rubbing me the wrong way. >_>

"Ort is stupid", not "Ort is scummy" or "Ort isn't necessarily scum".

No scum vibes? "A little" from Ort? But no real reason?

Still fence-sitting.

I can see why people may think I'm not pro-town because I really haven't done much. Problem is, I can't really find anything. Emp changes Ort's vote from me to Santos is kinda scummy, but other than that, I got nothing. Santos hasn't done anything really scummy, IMHO.

I feel like KMD hasn't posted much content in his last few posts. Makes it seem like he's playing, although he kinda isn't.

No vote for now, cause I wanna see what my other head has to say.

You say you can't find anything, but you have small things to start on. You said you have a little on Ort for "rubbing you the wrong way". If this is true, look at his posts and see if you think he is scum. You even say Emp's vote change is scummy. That's both heads of a pair. If both are scum, that would be an awesome lynch. 2 scum lynched in 1 day.

And then no vote because you are waiting for your other head? If you have opinions, expand on them and do something. If your other head disagrees, he has the power to change your vote.

So basically, Slicey is sitting on the sidelines throwing out very small suspicions and letting Animorph think for him. Well, let's see what Animorph has done this game...

hai all.

vote: Empking

for voting "me"

Literally, this. One post.

So between the two, we have a hardcore lurker paired with someone who is fence-sitting, apparently scared to push any opinions, and wanting the hardcore lurker to do everything for him.

I think this is a good pair to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

now if you would like i guess i could go through and give my thoughts, but it will end up being a pretty long post.

I'm with Brandi. Please do this.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I didn't see that Animorph had been replaced. I still think Slicey is a better place to look than anything else right now though.

Slicey,

You said you were "torn" about no lynch. I don't see anywhere in your posts that suggests you were pushing it.

If you thought something was off about Ort, you should have posted it. You still should post it. No one will agree with you blindly. You need to present your case.

Vote stands.

[Kmd4390]

@KMD
I'd like you to put your main points against Slicey (Ani/IT) in your next post. Something like:
-Reason 1
-This
-And not to forget that.
You make lots of points in that post, so it would be nice to just see the main points.

-Posts "opinion" on No Lynch without posting actual suspects or anything else with content.
-Lack of stance with "torn" comment regarding No Lynch.
-Fence-sitting
-Calls Ort "a little" scummy. Doesn't back it.
-Small jab at Emp for vote change. Later says he found nothing in Emp's post history.
-"waiting" for other head.

@Lawrence and KMD
How come you missed that Ani was replaced by IT?

Looked at this to see who Slicey's other head was:
[quote="KaleiÃ

[Kmd4390]

@

Kmd, Braeden:

What are the reasons for the votes on those above people?

If you don't know, you aren't reading.

[Kmd4390]

Anyone else wanna lynch Slicey now?

[Kmd4390]

That claim was very early...

[Kmd4390]

Brandi, There's a big difference between a player who has played in 1 or 2 games and a player who has played 7 or 8.

Braeden, I'm not going to present evidence against someone who I don't want to lynch.

[Kmd4390]

just out of curiostiy but what's the big deal with Slicey claiming townie so early?

He was nowhere near a lynch. My vote was the only one on him. He did NOT need to claim.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, are you usually that aggressive?

I can be aggressive, yes. Not so sure I'd call anything I've done in this game aggressive though...?

[Kmd4390]

Slicey, since you claim townie, do you know your partner is 100% town as well?

I hope this isn't a serious question. If it is, you should know the answer already if you are town. You should be able to assume the answer regardless of alignment.

[Kmd4390]

Nice AtE.

[Kmd4390]

Appeal to emotion.

Also BSG, off topic but do you know why Zazie hasn't been around lately?

[Kmd4390]

Appeal to emotion.

Yeah...no. >_>

cause you guys are about to lynch (probably two) townies. >_>

Yeah.

Why? Would you like to see her again

Of course I know . School and such. I don't know when she gets back, but I think soon as we're having a holiday in less than a week. You know, you could have just PM'ed her as she gets online once in a while (she's having her turn soon at modding and she's in one mish mash game if I'm correct).
But I think that you'll be one of the first who will know when she gets back

Just /in'd.

[Kmd4390]

Still supporting a Slicey lynch. I don't think BSG is scum. I'm on the fence with Ort, but leaning town.

Also, Emp, pay attention:

BSG is a female, fyi.

I guess mentioning BSG is a female is an understatement.

Anyways...

Personally, I'm on the fence with BSG.

He

rubs me the wrong way, gut really.

[Kmd4390]

KMD, whats the case on Slicey?

-Posts "opinion" on No Lynch without posting actual suspects or anything else with content.
-Lack of stance with "torn" comment regarding No Lynch.
-Fence-sitting
-Calls Ort "a little" scummy. Doesn't back it.
-Small jab at Emp for vote change. Later says he found nothing in Emp's post history.
-"waiting" for other head.

Also add the early claim and the AtE.

Also, KMD, I have a question for you (not really game related and you don't have to answer it if you don't want to): Do you think you play differently when you're scum as opposed to being town? A simple yes or no answer would suffice.

I think my play depends on the other players in the game more than it depends on alignment. I try to play the style as scum that I would as town though.

[Kmd4390]

I've become less sure that ort or empking is scum (I do want to hear from ort why empking is obvtown), and this also counts for slicey. Unvote. I don't like populartajo's play in this game, but

I'm not sure if it's scummy.

Santos is the only of the 'big wagons' that i like, but he's attached to BSG so I'd rather wait with Santos till later.

Vote: populartajo

for now.

[Kmd4390]

UROE, that need to be posted in thread why exactly?

[Kmd4390]

UROE, that need to be posted in thread why exactly?

What?

You should know what.

Yes, but I'm treating as if Ort was Emp's scumbuddy just because Ort is afraid that Emp will act scummy. I'm not saying that Emp is 100% town, I just think he's town, that's all.

I also considered the fact that he may be a town power role. But I still think there's a higher chance of him being scum.

I knew that was going to be worded poorly. >_____>

julienvonwolfe, if you didn't like lawrencelot's vote, then why don't you change it? >_>

Same as UROE. Stop. Now.

Well UROE did say what I didn't want to say. Since it's out there: I think ortolan is either scum/independent, or town with a good role. That is why I don't want to lynch ortolan/empking, it may cost the town a lot.

WHY ARE WE DISCUSSING THIS.

[Kmd4390]

Why should I not be allowed to post my views on the game in-thread?

This is mafia, you aren't the mod, quit telling me what I can and can't do.

Don't tell the scum who you think the power roles are. I can't believe 3 players are discussing that.

[Kmd4390]

So right now, Slicey/IT would be our lynch. Works for me.

[Kmd4390]

Less than 1 hour (+/- 45 min.)

I'm happy with the current lynch choice. Wish people on MS were around more often for deadlines though. On SA, anyone not on within the last hour or so, unexcused, gets crap for it the next day.

[Kmd4390]

Slicey, self vote.

Are you being serious?

[Kmd4390]

Because inexperienced scum wouldnt try to direct the game from the grave.

What makes you think that?

How do we know Slicey's going to get lynched without a majority, anyway? Where are the rules on deadline votes?

No idea. Mod never answered. I assume plurality lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Because inexperienced scum wouldnt try to direct the game from the grave.

What makes you think that?

Think about Slicey and think about his behaviour all this game. Do you really think he would be able to generate the amount of WIFOM in only 1 post if he were scum?

You make it sound like a mastermind plot to name off a couple of players as scummy.

[Kmd4390]

I am willing to argue that point, see ongoing-NG 707. (No specifics, see

ongoing

)

Even though we are facing different situation and obv different players, I would like a not ongoing game to comment with more freedom.
Think about Slicey and think about his behaviour all this game. Do you really think he would be able to generate the amount of WIFOM in only 1 post if he were scum?

Seems you're generating some WIFOM of your own, Tajo.

Do you think that only scum generate WIFOM?

[Kmd4390]

Prodded. And here.

What time is the deadline EST? Or how many hours from that post?

[Kmd4390]

Monday @ 2PM EST then.

[Kmd4390]

KMD: Whsat is your read on IT?

No read. I'll look back.

Stupid snow storm.

QFT. Road was closed on my way home from Utica.

[Kmd4390]

Not so sure about this...

Why haven't you had any thoughts on the game so far? (If you had thoughts, I doubt for would "forget" about the game...)

I kinda stopped checking sometime because NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE was happening. Thusly, I forgot the game.

What are your thoughts on Slicey, Ort, and Emp?

[Kmd4390]

Raider, I've already posted it twice. Go through my post history.

[Kmd4390]

Budja, who do you think is scum right now?

[Kmd4390]

Vote Santos

[Kmd4390]

Good idea, let's just vote like normal and BSG can use that information to form his opinion.

Better yet, vote like normal and when a majority is reached, BSG kills the "lynched" player.

[Kmd4390]

Good idea, let's just vote like normal and BSG can use that information to form his opinion.

Better yet, vote like normal and when a majority is reached, BSG kills the "lynched" player.

QFT

Who voted BSG?

I did. She seemed more protown than anyone else IMO.

[Kmd4390]

The whole point in not quicklynching is to get discussion. We weren't going to get that yesterday, so quicklynching was fine. Also, convincing people with a case wasn't going to happen. I personally voted Santos as a policy lynch. Everyone was pretty much ok with lynching him. We couldn't get a real read on him. And if he was town, he wasn't helping. I was fine with lynching him and lynching him quickly.

Raider, I disagree about BSG doing what she wants. The power should be with the majority of the group. Of course she has the power to say otherwise, but I'd prefer playing this like a normal day. We don't know what kind of rules we'll have in future days, so when we have the chance to play a normal day, we should do it.

[Kmd4390]

Mass prod recieved.

Still here.

[Kmd4390]

Wow. I missed literally nothing here during Marathon Day. Oh well. I'm "back". XD

[Kmd4390]

Sorry I didn't get to this game. I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Wow.

Show of hands, who wouldn't have picked BSG if they knew she'd be replaced by someone they've never heard of?

*Raises hand*

[Kmd4390]

I don't think that replacement in this case is a tell.

Just really freakin' annoying. However, many thanks to WIT for being good enough to replace.

My thoughts exactly.

[Kmd4390]

See my sig.

Will catch up next week.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Budja

Vote Hohum

I've had a gut feeling on Budja for a while and he is just lurker hunting now. Hohum replaced Braeden who was too quick to agree with me on everything Day 1. I'll get better cases up when I get a chance. I realize I haven't put enough effort into this game since Day 1 really. I will have to get to this one though. Cases on Budja and Hohum are just what I need to get myself, and hopefully others, back into the game.

[Kmd4390]

nobody else has any opinions?

I still need to get my cases up on Budja and Hohum.

[Kmd4390]

Right now, I'm planning to blow up myself and ort in 24 hours, if there are no objections

Why Ort?

[Kmd4390]

Cop.

BSG was town

hohum is town

raider is town

I voted for Kmd because I saw nothing to contradict my usual town-read of him.

Plus I knew he would just defer to voting for the lynch anyhow, which I'd prefer.

Why did you pick me over BSG, who you had an innocent result on?

[Kmd4390]

Because there was a good chance BSG would kill me

But if I was scum, couldn't I get away with claiming a gut feeling on basically anyone I wanted and make some BS case? You had an innocent result on BSG which makes her much more likely to be town (Inv immune or sanity issues are the only chance she isn't) and her intentions are protown.

Although I disagree with your actions, I can see the logic behind them. I'll back off.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Budja

[Kmd4390]

Sigs allowed?

[Kmd4390]

Double posts?

[Kmd4390]

Quotes?

[Kmd4390]

learn mafia...

[Kmd4390]

Double posts?

Change quotes?

[Kmd4390]

< naive???

Everyone town?

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

[Kmd4390]

Now what?

Explain lurking.

[Kmd4390]

Your posts.

[Kmd4390]

Mostly excuses.

[Kmd4390]

Vote FL

[Kmd4390]

AtE.

[Kmd4390]

Won't work.

[Kmd4390]

Won't work.

Oh well

Votes please?

[Kmd4390]

Why?

[Kmd4390]

What restriction?

[Kmd4390]

I disagree.

[Kmd4390]

Other days.

[Kmd4390]

gave info.

[Kmd4390]

I disagree.

Other days.

gave info.

These together.

[Kmd4390]

Lynch today...

[Kmd4390]

[quote="KaleiÃ

[Kmd4390]

[quote="KaleiÃ

[Kmd4390]

Possible LYLO.

[Kmd4390]

Slight suspicion.

On Ort?

[Kmd4390]

Suspicious why?

[Kmd4390]

That's dumb.

[Kmd4390]

"no PRs"?

This is.

[Kmd4390]

Discrediting claim?

[Kmd4390]

Because vanillas.

[Kmd4390]

Lynch for

[Kmd4390]

Scummy behavior.

[Kmd4390]

Not becuase

[Kmd4390]

outguess Mod.

[Kmd4390]

Sleeping. Bye.

[Kmd4390]

Power role.

^This.

[Kmd4390]

whats hapnning?

Read it.

[Kmd4390]

[quote="Brandi"][quote="KaleiÃ

[Kmd4390]

for later.

[Kmd4390]

Back.

Wanna help?

[Kmd4390]

Vote count?

[Kmd4390]

Or FL.

[Kmd4390]

Or FL.

Why FL?

See earlier.

[Kmd4390]

more absent

Possibly right.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote

[Kmd4390]

a idiot

Stop insults.

[Kmd4390]

[quote="KaleiÃ

[Kmd4390]

EST = GMT -5

When's deadline?

[Kmd4390]

vote: k7

hammer?

[Kmd4390]

VC
forbiddanlight: Kmd4390
Brandi: raider8169, Empking
K7: ortolan, Budja

+

Vote K7

+

Vote K7

'+'

Vote K7

+

Unvote

5.

vote: k7

6.

[Kmd4390]

11 alive.

[Kmd4390]

Vote DGB

?

[Kmd4390]

L-1..

[Kmd4390]

wait claim

^This

[Kmd4390]

Why

[Kmd4390]

It was DGB, right?

[Kmd4390]

Ort, why'd you fake the guilty on me?

And DGB was obvscum after replacing FL who was also obvscum.