Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[Yeet]

I apologize for holding up the game. Good luck to the mafia.

[Yeet]

Perhaps I’ll start off by voting someone random.

Vote: tenebrousluminary

since it’s going to be a pain to write that out everytime - I’d rather believe the mafia is one of these players.

[Yeet]

My account name of “maozedong” was not accepted by the mods, so they told me to change the name of my account.

[Yeet]

Ah, yeah I will have to do that at some point. I’m currently on my phone in bed but I will do that the next time I get to a computer (will probably be tomorrow evening after work).

[Yeet]

My account name of “maozedong” was not accepted by the mods, so they told me to change the name of my account.

Sounds a little far fetched!

What do you mean?

[Yeet]

I am taking suggestions for my avatar if anyone wants to. Bonus points if the file is already clipped to the appropriate dimensions.

[Yeet]

Do a lot of you know each other? I suspect it may be difficult to navigate among all the different relationships that I am unfamiliar with here.

[Yeet]

Indeed I am saddened as well. However both he and the current leader of China are very controversial figures, so I understand the sentiment behind the sanction.

[Yeet]

I suspect that Frogsterking is aligned with the town.

[Yeet]

You may have what, skitter30?

[Yeet]

My account name of “maozedong” was not accepted by the mods, so they told me to change the name of my account.

Sounds a little far fetched!

What are you implying / was your initial vote serious?

Ah, yeah I will have to do that at some point. I’m currently on my phone in bed but I will do that the next time I get to a computer (will probably be tomorrow evening after work).

I'm not joking! I think your slot is a scum power role who is required to be present or the game risks becoming mechanically unfair to the scum team.

I'm being serious I think the setup was delayed because it's balanced mechanically around a very powerful scum power role and the player who got this role never confirmed!

This seems quite a bit more far fetched than my original statement.

Why do you think that I would come out and fake this reason, as scum?

[Yeet]

VOTE: Datisi

I feel jittery about this slot’s opening posts.

[Yeet]

You realize that both skitter30 and Datisi have decided to townread you as well, right?

[Yeet]

VOTE: Datisi

I feel jittery about this slot’s opening posts.

good vote

what gives you the jitters?

Now I think you are scum subliminally signaling to me that I have, in fact, made a good vote.

[Yeet]

I am maozedong. I am not an alt of NM.

[Yeet]

You are not helping your case, scumDatisi.

[Yeet]

I explained exactly what the game delay was about - the mod team decided that my username was not acceptable and they told me to switch the name of my account. This is not something I would lie about.

[Yeet]

Frogsterking is confirmed town to me. I will not accept any vote on Frogsterking.

[Yeet]

On the other hand, Datisi is most likely scum this game.

[Yeet]

VOTE: Datisi

Post 39 feels unnatural to me.

Frogsterking, you may need to do some research on what to expect from this game.

I also don’t like 39. I don’t like the way Datisi is engaging the thread.

[Yeet]

DeasVail, would you also vote Datisi?

[Yeet]

I also wouldn’t mind getting Datisi hammered soon.

[Yeet]

I can guarantee at least one scum has posted.

[Yeet]

Save the Dragons is also town.

[Yeet]

What is nai?

[Yeet]

If I am wrong on Datisi, then skitter30 is scum.

[Yeet]

What is nai?

Not alignment-indicative.

Thank you.

[Yeet]

If Datisi is scum then I’m not sure what to make of skitter30’s reaction.

You bring up a good point that she doesn’t even seem interested in Datisi’s alignment or why we are all pushing. I don’t think she says that about a partner so early. The plausible world to me is that if Datisi is town then skitter30 is scum whiteknighting Datisi.

[Yeet]

Yes, I have played mafia before. I played a little bit on EpicMafia when that was still a thing, and a couple games on this site on different accounts. I also occasionally play Avalon with my friends.

[Yeet]

Datisi’s responses do not ease my anxiety about his alignment.

[Yeet]

After readinf 71 multiple times, i actually dont think i got any clarity from it >.>

Why is it more believeable that me/dats would townbin you than for yeet to do the same thing?

~

Nai = non alignment indicative

In other words i'm saying what dats has done thus far is neither townie nor scummy for him

skitter30, I don’t believe you are being consistent in your explanation.

I don’t believe that you would say that you’re not sure why people think Datisi is scum when you know exactly how he plays and believe this to be his town self.

You are assuming that we know him implicitly there. We do not know Datisi, so why would you expect us to have the same opinion on him with your knowledge?

You would’ve simply said that Datisi’s posts are “NAI”, without the part where you’re “not sure why people dislike him”.

It doesn’t make sense, it’s not a real read, and your approach to this whole thing feels like it’s not coming from a genuine solving headspace - rather it was feeble attempt to provide content and you felt the urge to white knight him.

Vote: skitter30

[Yeet]

It's probably worth noting that I expect Skitter and Datisi have probably played with each other multiple times before and so I imagine Skitter thinks themselves able to read Datisi to greater degree of accuracy than other players in this game can read Datisi, which may explain their posting re: Datisi.

Yes, basically

So again, if this was true, skitter30 would not have led with “idk why people dislike dats”.

[Yeet]

VOTE: frogsterking for making the first thread of serious conversation in this game be a really dumb one

42 fireisred trying to shut down scumhunting during start of day noted

getting people engaged in talking about thr game delay and who may be scum as a result of it is directly counterproductive to scumhunting bc it's dumb and is not going to result in anything useful

cmv

I mean while their approach is wrong, they did immediately give us something to talk abt and thus got the game moving, i dont think thats counterprodictive to scumhunting at all

~

I'm not really sure why people are disliking dats thus far, he's been largely nai to me

To be clear, this is the offending post. Something is wrong here. Maybe Datisi is town after all.

[Yeet]

Yeet seems trustworthy and makes a good point. But I think I'll stick with my vote for now.

this is scum

VOTE: tenebrous

yeah that was not a great post

I would like to know what you and fire think about tenebro’s post.

[Yeet]

Yeet seems trustworthy and makes a good point. But I think I'll stick with my vote for now.

this is scum

VOTE: tenebrous

yeah that was not a great post

i mean yours right after was kind of similar... the vibes aren't as bad but still

This post feels salty. Like the kind of salty you feel to push back at someone for the sake of it when someone pushes at you. Whether or not it’s scummy I can’t say for sure. In fact it may be towny.

[Yeet]

I don't think skitter is scummy for saying what she did about Datisi.
It sounds pretty normal to me. While not everyone here is completely familiar with Datisi's playstyle, I don't think it's scummy for skitter to suggest that Datisi's posts are NAI.

The point was not that she suggested his posts are NAI - that is what I expect town skitter to do. And I’m sure she knew that part, regardless of what her alignment is. The point is that she started it with disbelief that he was getting pressure from players who don’t know him, knowing full well that she is using her experience with Datisi to sort him.

She saw an opportunity to make a read (fake content) that she would as town and slipped up in how she presented it.

[Yeet]

fire, my mistake. I read that interaction incorrectly. My apologies.

[Yeet]

*and that the reasoning people were giving for him being scummy i found unconvincing*

To be clear, this is the part of your response I actually care about, skitter30, since the rest of it. I apologize for saying you thought he was town, I meant NAI there.

[Yeet]

I don't think skitter is scummy for saying what she did about Datisi.
It sounds pretty normal to me. While not everyone here is completely familiar with Datisi's playstyle, I don't think it's scummy for skitter to suggest that Datisi's posts are NAI.

The point was not that she suggested his posts are NAI - that is what I expect town skitter to do. And I’m sure she knew that part, regardless of what her alignment is. The point is that she started it with disbelief that he was getting pressure from players who don’t know him, knowing full well that she is using her experience with Datisi to sort him.

She saw an opportunity to make a read (fake content) that she would as town and slipped up in how she presented it.

'I'm not sure why X' to express disagreement is a very very common phrasing convention for me

I was basically saying that i disagree with the reasonings given for scumreading him at that point

To be clear:
“I’m not sure why people dislike Datisi” equates to “I disagree with the reasons others have presented for disliking Datisi?”

[Yeet]

skitter, what did you think of 123? I thought it seemed a bit sassy to come from scum. The shade thrown gave me a very... relaxed impression?

Yes, I agree with this sentiment.

[Yeet]

i have Thoughts but i should probably let skitt speak first before saying anything

skitter has spoken so I would like to hear what your T h o u g h t s were here

[Yeet]

“yes and no. i'm used to there being meme wagons on me early game, especially from people that don't really know me.“

Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.

[Yeet]

i have Thoughts but i should probably let skitt speak first before saying anything

skitter has spoken so I would like to hear what your T h o u g h t s were here

mostly that your case was nothing because she did not say she townread me and the "you are projecting that we know datisi therefore you are scum!?!?" was a huge stretch

It’s a mindset slip. I’m not saying she’s projecting that we know you.

But I’m not that interested in my old case anymore. If she insists that her common phrasing means something other than what I think it would more commonly mean, I will drop it for now because I don’t think she would lie about that as scum.

Which means, my vote goes back to you

Vote: Datisi

[Yeet]

To be clear:
“I’m not sure why people dislike Datisi” equates to “I disagree with the reasons others have presented for disliking Datisi?”

Yes, apologies if i phrased things poorly

For anyone who is interested in the resolution of my earlier accusation on skitter, this seems to be the conclusion. My case is nothing if the above is true. Please let me know if you don’t understand something and would like to, otherwise I am ok moving on.

[Yeet]

Datisi do you think I am meme-pushing you? Is that why you feel rather unaffected by my push on you? I can assure you that I am not memeing with this push on you.

anyone who thinks they can lockscum me on page 2 is lying either to themselves or to everyone else

you may not be meming but the push itself is a meme

I have high confidence in my pushes. The real probability you are scum is probably being exaggerated by me but I can tell you with confidence when I think something leans a certain way.

[Yeet]

I am also leaving. I was about to go to sleep when I saw the day start and got excited. I have stayed past my bedtime for this and hope I don’t regret it.

From top to bottom:

Frog
fire
DeasVail
Aristeia
Save the Dragons

everyone else
Wu, skitter, tenebro
Cavernous sea of nothing
Datisi

[Yeet]

i have Thoughts but i should probably let skitt speak first before saying anything

skitter has spoken so I would like to hear what your T h o u g h t s were here

mostly that your case was nothing because she did not say she townread me and the "you are projecting that we know datisi therefore you are scum!?!?" was a huge stretch

It’s a mindset slip. I’m not saying she’s projecting that we know you.

But I’m not that interested in my old case anymore. If she insists that her common phrasing means something other than what I think it would more commonly mean, I will drop it for now because I don’t think she would lie about that as scum.

Which means, my vote goes back to you

Vote: Datisi

@Mizzy

, I am voting for Datisi.

[Yeet]

Probably you and Yeet.

Why do you think I am scum again?

[Yeet]

I am also leaving. I was about to go to sleep when I saw the day start and got excited. I have stayed past my bedtime for this and hope I don’t regret it.

From top to bottom:

Frog
fire
DeasVail
Aristeia
Save the Dragons

everyone else
Wu, skitter, tenebro
Cavernous sea of nothing
Datisi

You must be the best player that ever played this game. 10 reads on page 8? Are you serious?

I don't feel that this was abnormal. You can check other people's readslists and see that they had similar opinions as well. I am very far from the best player in this game, these were simply my hunches at the time.

[Yeet]

the second part of 207 feels like something that noob!scum says because they took a post too literally. but, i don't think it necessarily makes deasvail scum, since i think i recall someone calling him good at scum in that tm2021 game, and good scum isn't prone to such cognitive-overload mistakes

I've seen you use the "I don't think scum would do something as bad as X" a few times because you think they are "good" as scum. If you are town, I would caution against such logic personally. There is no objective standard for what is good or bad scumplay and ruling someone out as scum because of that leads to all sorts of wifom/considerations you're unaware of that they are/good scum can make mistakes too because townies don't actually know how to scumhunt as well as they think they do.

That's just my opinion.

@Mizzy I apologize, I will use the vote tags from now on.

[Yeet]

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

OK.. so I take it that I'm the worst player then, because while everyone is discerning reads I have no concrete feelings so far (in page 9) that I don't think I'd vote or defend anyone if my life depended on it.

Please don't take it that way.

Just because certain players can form hunches and opinions off of little content/few things, doesn't make them more accurate or more effective for town. If my hunches are <rand I am actually hurting town with my hunches rather than not having them at all. It is possible that being more immune to small things is good for your read accuracy, as the things you pick up on may more likely to be real tells.

Don't get too caught up in how other people form reads (except to get inside their head and see if it's a real process, if you're genuinely curious for sorting them).

[Yeet]

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I’ll catch up on other stuff this afternoon

I find this vote a bit odd. Is eyes really your strongest scumread out of everyone in the game off of just those two short posts?

[Yeet]

Aristeia, why do you think Datisi is town?

[Yeet]

I mean that's literally what you did?

Still no response to the question but okay. We all know it's bullshit.

No, we don't "all" know that it's bullshit... why would you say that?

[Yeet]

I am tentatively at

humaneatingmonkey
GeneralWu


so the other 2 scum are in

Scorpious
Save The Dragons
MalcolmTucker
skitter30
Eyes without a face
Nordom

This sounds more like the town nero I know. Nothing solid yet but a town lean.

I would like to know why you think Nero Cain is town.

[Yeet]

Aristeia, why do you think Datisi is town?

His reactions and thread presence feels unscripted and off the cuff. I expect scum him to be more planned out and careful in how he engages with the thread.

Thank you. I will reconsider on Datisi.

@Human I will take a look at that readslist again.

[Yeet]

Yeet - wild noob read after wild noob read. Somewhat question if Yeet is not an alt though, in which case maybe this means nothing.

I am not sure what this entire sentence means.

I am alt of an account that I would prefer not to disclose. I have played a few games on this site. I don't believe I've played with anyone here, unless I one of them is/has an alt that I played with.

[Yeet]

have kind of a hard time believing that monkey really thinks there's no way ari and datisi can be town here. this aggressive posturing feels a bit bluff-y to me

Bluffy in a scum way or a town way or equally likely to be either?

[Yeet]

I am on Aristeia's side in this discussion, but I think humaneatingmonkey is possibly town anyway. I think this is TvT with Aristeia stronger town to me, to be clear

[Yeet]

If someone told me to explain every single one of my 10 reads that I went out of my way to provide, I would also probably tell them to limit their request to a few.

I also had Save The Dragons as town, for the record, in my earlier readslist, so I'm also pleasantly surprised to see Aristeia coming to a similar conclusion.

[Yeet]

You each dodged around each other's questions because you expected the other person to answer your questions first.

That's how I see it. I don't ascribe any particular scum motivation to either player from this.

[Yeet]

You've now wasted far more time with this argument than it would have taken to answer.

Bingo.

It is not the fault of Aristeia alone, if that is the point you are trying to make.

[Yeet]

Humaneatingmonkey is +town because I have never seen scum ask town to blanketly explain every single one of their 10+ reads off a casual readslist as their first entry into the game. I think it's easy to feel too self conscious as scum in that approach.

I think he has his own "method to his madness" so to speak (as we all do, to an extent).

[Yeet]

The more I think about it, the more I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way (not that it's scum indicative). I assume there is history between the two from what I have read, and I would never as scum just attack someone like that flippantly who I know has a high chance of OMGUSing back at me.

I just don't see the scum motivation here.

[Yeet]

[quote="In post 582, Nero Cain"][/quote]
I haven't really looked much at your slot, but skimming you I didn't get a positive vibe at least. I wouldn't say scumreading you but you're like maybe slightly below null for me. I'll revisit you later.

[Yeet]

I would like to know why you think Nero Cain is town.

Town Nero is aggressive and stingy. Scum Nero is nice and gentle. Simple.

I'm going to come back to this; the way this was worded makes me feel like there's an alignment tell for eyes here.

[Yeet]

here is my way too early vibe list:

good vibes:

yeet, frogster, fire, skitter, datisi, std

neutrali:

gwu, cape90, deasvail,

badvibes:

tenebro, monkey

can you explain each slot

Okay, I was wrong to say HEM came in guns blazing.

I still don't think he asks Aristeia to explain every single slot on her early readslist if he is scum and it seems like he genuinely expects her to. In my opinion it is easier to fabricate a more normal looking approach to the game than doing something weird and particular like this.

And I don't agree that people often get townread for getting into a heated 1v1, I personally feel the opposite. And I definitely wouldn't expect scum to welcome it against someone who is presumably OMGUSy in the first place. But that's all anedoctal on both our ends.

[Yeet]

town get into heated 1v1's too. Is HEM being overly agressive. maybe

ye I'm not saying only scum do it, but yeet was saying scum would never

I said I would never do that as scum, not that no one would.

I still feel it's a big stretch to say scum!HEM's scum agenda here is to get into a 1v1 with Aristeia to avoid doing real stuff in the thread and get townread for 1v1ing her. I think that's just a ridiculous agenda that doesn't make sense to me.

[Yeet]

I still don't think he asks Aristeia to explain every single slot on her early readslist if he is scum and it seems like he genuinely expects her to. In my opinion it is easier to fabricate a more normal looking approach to the game than doing something weird and particular like this.

asking questions that you are not really interested in the answer to is literally one of the easiest things for scum to do to coast.

Sure, but why would he ask you about every single read as scum, which is clearly a big ask? It's more likely to me that he saw noticed something in particular as town and didn't care about how the possible interaction would unfold. Scum subconsciously plan ahead more than town, is one of the theses I have in this read.

[Yeet]

VPB can also be town for now. It’s not definitive but the stance on me feels expected from a town perspective.

[Yeet]

Okay VPB you think I’m bad/noob - what does my alignment have to do with me being an alt or not?

[Yeet]

How has Yeet's takes been bad? His TvT with Ari and Monkey read was good.

I agree with this post. I’m a bit wary of anyone dismissing Yeet’s opinions as bad or newb. I think there are some errors of comprehension here and there, just as we all are prone to, but a lot of the thought processes have actually resonated quite strongly with me.

Reading comprehension is not my strong suit. I did fumble more arguments than normal this game based on misreading. I’ll try to stop doing that but no promises.

I don’t think the skitter thing falls into that ftr, I do think that in particular was more just a wording difference of interpretation thing.

[Yeet]

Okay VPB you think I’m bad/noob - what does my alignment have to do with me being an alt or not?

If you were more experienced I'd be more suspicious you have an agenda with something like that putrid skitter vote.

I am not a complete noob, let’s put it at that. I have a few mafiascum games under my belt, plus some other sites/Avalon.

I know what I look for in scum and I know it may not be the most popular things.

If you have anxiety about my skitter vote it was a wording thing that was clarified in thread by her.

And yes, I can scumread both skitter and Datisi (at the time) but argue skitter is more likely to be scum in a world where Datisi is town. I am nowhere near confident enough yet to starting solving the whole scumteam, and I don’t think anyone should be really. One of My goals today is to find at least one person today who I think is a >rand elimination.

[Yeet]

VPB, what is your read on Datisi? You don’t mention it in readslist but I do see you taking issue with my early scumread of him.

[Yeet]

Nero Cain, since you want me to commit to a stance on you: I don’t townread anything in your ISO. Overall for me that’s a slight negative, but there’s plenty of time left.

[Yeet]

It is interesting that Datisi is pretty much universally very unpopular today (except in Aristeia’s eyes, but I worry she may be biased. Nevertheless I am still keeping her opinion very much in mind because I presume she knows him well).

Is he normally this unpopular at gamestart?

[Yeet]

Datisi is the leading wagon I believe despite taking up a lot of space and actually playing the game. To my understanding No one townreads him except one person who knows him more intimately than others, it seems. He is not a polarizing slot as much as a universally southnull slot.

Wu seems to blend into the background more with less content/words ratio.

Monkey is a more polarizing slot rather than purely getting flak. I could be biased since I was one of the monkey defenders.

[Yeet]

I think we should mount the pressure on Datisi sooner rather than later.

Let’s get some wagons going, guys. I don’t want to stall around all day and move last minute and scramble when we can just go sheep sheep sheep.

[Yeet]

Perhaps I am able to ascertain why you'd think that. You may have a point.

VOTE: Dragons

Vote Wu or HEM.

Large games should consolidate D1 as fast as possible or we will end up at 100+ pages for D1 and that's just annoying later in the game.

THIS right here is why my sequence on Datisi was not wrong. We need to get things moving and start pushing in this kind of game since opinions will be far more fragmented. The probability that close to half the people in this game have the same top scumread is far lower than in a smaller game. That means we need to compromise and not always vote our top scumread at any given point. We don't want to dilly dally the whole day and scramble with no info at the end. I am saying this now so that we do not get caught in problems down the line. Just to put my money where my mouth is, I will VOTE: humaneatingmonkey, even though my last impression of him is light town (although I feel more nullish on him anyway).

Yes, Aristeia's townread on Datisi gives me some pause on him being scum. No, that doesn't mean I still don't want more pressure on him and to run him up. If people want to start voting Datisi again I will gladly switch back. And me pointing out that I didn't think many people at the time had a favorable opinion on him.

I haven't fully caught up (nor do I intend to in such a large game) but it seems things have changed. It is concerning that people are using my recent activity to discredit the townie vibes that I gave earlier. It is possible that this is scum motivated to keep the PoE wider, but it seems more likely to me that this is just poor activity logic.

[Yeet]

I feel a little bit better about Datisi right now.

[Yeet]

Of all the players here I would say I find myself nodding and agreeing the most with DeasVail's posts. Call it a mindmeld if you will, I remember he said something similar about me a while back. The similar lines of thinking would make me believe it is likely that he is also town as we seem to be looking out for similar things. If he was attempting to pocket me here, I don't think I would feel the same way about him, and moreover I'm not sure what his incentive is to overtly pocket a random player like me. Unless my earlier pushes were somehow dead on and he wanted to establish some sort of influence on me, but that feels like a stretch.

[Yeet]

Ok, anyhow, moving on...

I haven’t been keeping tabs on the case on you because I’ve been kind of tunneled and focused on a few other players to the point where I just forgot what I thought of you. You hadn’t posted in a while so other people were more prevalent.

Where is your head at currently with your scum reads? I have a hard time tracking who you actually want to lim.

Town:
Malcolm - Reasons I've already explained. I think that he's level-headed and approaching situations with nuance, and also after going back through ISOs I agree that the case on Datisi.
Datisi - I've gone through ISOs and liked his posting a lot. I think it's a solid townie mindset and I don't see what other people see in him.
Nero - I know how Nero plays. This is probably town Nero. Handled GeneralWu well and I think he's right with that read.
Frogster - Weirdly misguided townie who seems way too overeager to catch a scum early. Could be right, but for the wrong reasons. Easy townie on my end and I can't see any associatives.
Skitter30 - I also think she is misguided town. I disagree with a chunk of her townreads and basically all of her scumreads except for maybe Eyes. I especially don't see a case on Nero at all.
STD - Has brought new ideas to the table and is putting in some effort to be visible and play the game. More of a townlean than full town, but still.

Townlean:
VP Baltar - I have issues with your list, but I think your questioning lines are genuine and you are attempting to sort people.
Cape90 - Same.

Null/Not enough info:
Eyes - Barely anything in their ISO and not enough to read them off of.
Tenebro - There have been a few posts I've really liked and a few I've really hated. I've cooled off on them though and I'm not going to revote them unless something changes down the line.
HEM - I can see his play coming from scum or just apathetic town. I think he's just snappy and confrontational in general and I don't see a case on him.
Ari - Not gonna talk about this slot right now, but I can see both cases.
Nordom - Probably just an insensitive moron. No idea what to make of him and I want to see how his replacement handles things.
Scorpious - He looks scummy, but that's true of literally every game he plays. It's not worth pursuing for now and I doubt there's any valuable info we can get out of it even if he does flip scum.

Scummy:
DeasVail - This is the slot I'm least sure on. I think depending on Nordom's alignment it could MAYBE go either way, but for right now I don't see how they can TR HEM with little explanation while SRing Nordom for his snappy dismissiveness. It feels a little bit inconsistent to me and like they're going with the easy route.
Fireisred - It's been pointed out that they're mostly playing the mediator and I'm inclined to agree. They've kind of been piling on to individual wagons and their three votes have just been whatever's easiest to pick out at the time. I think their callout of Tenebro was okay but I also want to see who they actually scumread throughout today.
Yeet - One of the more prominent pushers of the Datisi wagon. I think that Malcolm pointing out their inconsistency on the case on Datisi was a good thing, and going through their posts it kind of looks like they're pushing Datisi's posts into a scum mindset in a square peg round hole kind of deal. They briefly switched to skitter for not SRing Datisi like they did but switched back to him right after, so I don't really think they're actually taking new information into account.


Scum:
GeneralWu - Their ISO is a huge ball of nothing, they've got like 1-2 actual comments on the game compared to the game that Fire linked earlier where they got right down to business, and they ghosted the thread shortly after being called out by Nero and haven't posted in almost a day. My vote is staying here.

Is that good enough for you?

This readslist is really boring. I'm not a fan.

[Yeet]

Yeet I'm still not a fan of your slot but if you're looking to run up fua I can make a truce with you D1 so we can both wagon fua

It is not the time, he doesn't have the votes yet.

HEM does have the votes. I want to see what happens and progress the game, not stall it further.

[Yeet]

They.

Sorry, I will use they/them pronouns for you from now on. I think there's an option somewhere to have the pronoun under your avatar, if you'd like to enable that.

[Yeet]

VOTE: Fua

Frogsterking, I am ready to shake this tree with you.

[Yeet]

I will vote Wu as well but let’s see what happens here first as my read of them is actively lower than Wu.

[Yeet]

I’m very meh on Datisi’s second reason (I think there are plenty of reasons why scum!Aristeia might defend Datisi) but the first point feels like a mindmeld reason, which is akin to the kind of logic that appeals to me more.

[Yeet]

What do people think of fua/if there is anything particular townie about them I would be interested. The predominant concern I have with this slot is that I see a very bland ISO which to me signals scum going through the motions.

[Yeet]

Your tales feel very lukewarm and almost too straight/calculated and not as nuanced as some other slots. Many of your reads feel more like objective summaries/statements rather than feelings which I feel are more complicated. It could be a playstyle difference. This is purely a gut read, of course. I can do a deeper dive sometime if you would like.

[Yeet]

*takes not tales.

[Yeet]

The readslist I quoted stuck out to me, for one.

[Yeet]

Yeah, but the difference is that I’m not jumping on whatever the most popular wagon is just because it was in style to do so. I don’t see how SRing Ari, Deas. and Fire are lukewarm takes at all considering others look at them as consensus town and I’m interested in what your definition of lukewarm actually is. Who are your scumreads besides me? At the moment it just feels like OMGUS and nothing else. Even Skitter is voting me because my takes are the opposite of hers, so these are some strange double standards.

This was a really weird reaction to my push

[Yeet]

Im glad to see fua is getting more votes. I don’t understand the context behind this yet but I will take a closer look when I have time.

[Yeet]

I feel decent about Nero and Datisi being town now.

[Yeet]

Fua uses they/them pronouns (I messed up earlier too). I would suggest voting for them for game progression purposes

Fwiw I’m not sure if Aristeia is town anymore but I still think she’s lightly town for me.

[Yeet]

I feel decent about Nero and Datisi being town now.

did you ever actually do the re-eval of me you said you would? link me if you did

I am reevaluating on every slot. I factored in Aristeia’s TR on you as well. Your recent play has been townier.

[Yeet]

Im glad to see fua is getting more votes. I don’t understand the context behind this yet but I will take a closer look when I have time.

Why would you be glad to see someone getting more votes without knowing the context?

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

[Yeet]

scummy
Scorpious
DeasVail
Eyes without a face
GeneralWu

like here's Mith's gift to mafia pushing 3 lurkers and some rando as scum

Pooky is a certainly a strong player but no one is infallible. I also feel that most of the active players are more likely to be town in this game.

[Yeet]

Im not sure what you’re saying here Math. Oh and you can be town too.

Nero, I don’t. They were two independent points against your accusation.

[Yeet]

My townread on Frogsterking also kind of dropped.

[Yeet]

Im not sure what you’re saying here Math. Oh and you can be town too.

Nero, I don’t. They were two independent points against your accusation.

How does a game with a majority of the players being good town (like Pooky and others) get the game so badly they wagon two masons instead of scum?

Because they can be wrong too…?

[Yeet]

It’s D1 and we are poking around and pushing wagons and keeping the gamestate dynamic. We are not expecting a super high hit rate D1 in a large. I think the gamestate is fine.

[Yeet]

We want to keep scum on their toes, not play timidly and stall in fear and stubbornness.

Pedit: I don’t believe even the “mith level players” have severely >rand reads on D1.

[Yeet]

One problem I have with fua is that I would classify their reactions are very “reactionary” or containing “naked aggression” or “subtly threatening”. I will quote some examples that I have seen from their interactions in me. I believe these to be scum traits when pushed.

[Yeet]

VOTE: Fua

Frogsterking, I am ready to shake this tree with you.

Be careful when you shake a tree, because the apples don’t fall far from it.

Bland ISO? What do you want me to do, blown up like Nordom did?

Yeah, but the difference is that I’m not jumping on whatever the most popular wagon is just because it was in style to do so. I don’t see how SRing Ari, Deas. and Fire are lukewarm takes at all considering others look at them as consensus town and I’m interested in what your definition of lukewarm actually is. Who are your scumreads besides me? At the moment it just feels like OMGUS and nothing else. Even Skitter is voting me because my takes are the opposite of hers, so these are some strange double standards.

Fua, if you felt Ari was being scummy in the Ari v HEM fight why would you agree that Fire was scummy for being the mediator in that fight?

because now they decided I'm not the mediator anymore cause that doesn't suit the new narrative of me "hopping to Ari's defense" (which tbh is probably more accurate anyway, i believe I was on the side of REASON and LOGIC as always but i think that was more ari's side)

If you think I’m scum now you can always vote me.

Scum might honestly be just as easy as Wu, Yeet, Fire, and Ari.

“Yeah, that’s fair. I tend to be on the side of reason and logic sometimes” is apparently what you said there. Which makes zero sense in that context. This is just backpedaling.

[Yeet]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

A bland, postury ISO is probably better than most scumreads one can get, imo. Also just gut something doesn’t sit right with me.

And i don’t understand how my singular reason made you hate the wagon. There are plenty of other people on this wagon.

[Yeet]

VP Baltar is also town. I feel like I’ve mentioned this before but I felt like reaffirming my stance here.

[Yeet]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

1968 has the summary. you've played with scum fua before, do you think they are more buddying and trying to get townread as maf?

I like this.

[Yeet]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

I feel weird about this post. It’s taunty and I don’t understand why town would be taunty to me here.

[Yeet]

VOTE: skitter That is an unfortunate development.

[Yeet]

VOTE: skitter That is an unfortunate development.

What is unfortunate?

That fua was the vig (likely) and not scum.

[Yeet]

scummy
Scorpious
DeasVail
Eyes without a face
GeneralWu

like here's Mith's gift to mafia pushing 3 lurkers and some rando as scum

Pooky is a certainly a strong player but no one is infallible. I also feel that most of the active players are more likely to be town in this game.

Im not sure what you’re saying here Math. Oh and you can be town too.

Nero, I don’t. They were two independent points against your accusation.

I explain shortly after that those two points are independent. You are arguing you think they are wrong and you think they should be right.

I said, as two independent rebuttals that: 1) they might not be wrong 2) they don't have to be right to be town.

[Yeet]

fua's claim was instantly believeable for me not just because of the claim, but the strange interactions I had with them (along with the subtle threats that I mentioned) felt in-line with what I might expect a vigilante to do. I've had similar interactions where I tunneled a PR and interacting with them felt kind of reminiscent.

[Yeet]

I'm not really sure what people have anxieties about in my 1206 other than theories about my scum!motivation? I explained my thoughts there and I stand by the fact that it was necessary to move the game along voting the largest wagon that I didn't townread. I also wanted to show others that I was willing to compromise to set a tone to push the game forward. I guess I could've voted Wu who is kind of just at pure null for me but I thought the game was moving a bit slowly and as I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for. If you wanted to pin me down on why, I guess part of me loses a bit of confidence in a read when I present arguments for someone being town based off of a reasoning that I feel might be a specific process for myself, and get shut down by multiple people (which is what I felt happened, notably from fire and Aristeia). But at the end of the day it was just a feeling that I had enough doubt there that I could justify compromising.

I think it's somewhat unlucky that we've hit (probably) two townies (HEM and fua) but I would rather take that risk than just do nothing the whole day. I agree that it's probably fine to slow the game down a little bit (but not to a ridiculous degree, we should still compromise to a degree and push people).

[Yeet]

this does seem to be an odd post to make. how will you agree with ari's side of the discussion without thinking i'm an offending scum?

As I said, I thought your request was really outlandish which made me TR it at the time due to some wifomy reasons. People shut those reasons down and made me doubt myself. I didn't think it was unreasonable at all for Aristeia to be upset and tell you to pick a smaller subset of reads.

[Yeet]

I said HEM became a bit more nullish for me than I originally tried to defend him for.

your words are nice but this isn't how you said it, and this isn't how it was worded. i don't think you even referred to me as nullish.

Just to put my money where my mouth is, I will VOTE: humaneatingmonkey, even though my last impression of him is light town (although I feel more nullish on him anyway).

What? Is this literally not what I said...?

[Yeet]

ah so i'm light town, but more bullish. this is the better vote than the one you had a null read on because you felt peer pressure. is this accurate?

Why are you reducing my words down to peer pressure?

But besides that part, yes.

[Yeet]

If you really care about being concise, you can boil it down to "wanting to push the game forward by voting the largest wagon that I didn't townread". Peer pressure doesn't make sense because no one told me to vote for you. You could argue "peer pressure" made me doubt my original gut TR ping on you, but that's more just averaging my opinions with others in what I view as a reasonable, Bayesian way.

[Yeet]

But I literally like wrote it in my posts. Sometimes I really feel like I am not being heard when I write stuff.

[Yeet]

Maybe it is my fault for being unclear. Sorry if that is the case.

[Yeet]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

A bland, postury ISO is probably better than most scumreads one can get, imo. Also just gut something doesn’t sit right with me.

And i don’t understand how my singular reason made you hate the wagon. There are plenty of other people on this wagon.

I'm going back to this post as being really sketchy now that we believe fua to be town.

[Yeet]

Datisi, do you think it's possible scum!Aristeia acts like that towards town!Math to get people to believe she's acting the same way because she's town again? I don't remember the rules for theorizing about why she replaced (which I do have thoughts on) so I won't talk about that unless someone okays it. Also, as far as I remember Pooky is very good at faking emotions or channeling scum emotions in a townie way.

[Yeet]

because it sorta feels like you're using peer pressure as an excuse.

i guess the other hard question is... why would you say that you were nullish to me when just posts ago, you describe me as:
- possibly town,
- +town
- never seen scum ask town to blanketly explain every single one of their 10+ reads off a casual readslist as their first entry into the game
- I just don't think scum HEM would decide to enter going guns blazing at Aristeia, of all people, who seems to be reacting to this in a very OMGUSy way
- I just don't see the scum motivation here.
- big stretch to say scum!HEM's scum agenda here is to get into a 1v1 with Aristeia to avoid doing real stuff in the thread and get townread for 1v1ing her. I think that's just a ridiculous agenda that doesn't make sense to me.
- I was one of the monkey defenders

those sound like really good townreads, Yeet. these are all great compliments. how did it turn into nullish? did i become scummier in between post 712 and post 1206?

Okay, thanks for that - I am starting to see why you might have some anxiety about me. First of all, let's be clear on EXACTLY why people think I might be scummy here (so that we don't get distracted) - I stated some points for town!HEM early on, then many posts later when HEM was getting run up, in 1206 I become light town/nullish on him. And @VP I think I've made it clear I don't really have an opinion on Wu's posting and I said how I felt about HEM at the time.

We should be clear on the part about why I voted you at the time. So the only thing that we are addressing here is why my read on you went down a bit.

So let me try to recreate my process to be more transparent (again I don't remember exactly what I was thinking at the time, and there are a lot of slots to keep track of), and you can evaluate if you think it's a real thought process or if I am just making this all up.

A lot of those things I said are "viby and wifomy" arguments, and I felt no one found these convincing at the time/Aristeia and I felt were somewhat reasonably rebutting them (and I felt were engaging/listening to me, which also appeals), so I was sort of in the middle of doubting myself after that. Sometimes your reads just change because one moment you are feeling certain points matter a lot, and sometimes you go "eh, maybe it didn't really matter that much" (that is what happened here). And honestly, I am biased in this particular case, but I do feel general that this kind of dynamic, irrational and not always consistent thought process is more genuine than a forced, stoic process that always tries to be as continuous as possible. When my post 1206 rolled around, I was even more temporally removed from that interaction, so I had these vague feelings that I remembered you might be townie. I saw that you were the largest wagon and was more focused on trying to move the game forward at the time so I did that.

And I wasn't really evaluating any of your posts after that in particular, my read was based on leftover impressions of you at the time. I haven't carefully read every post in this game and I don't plan to.

Let me know if you have more questions.

[Yeet]

Datisi, do you think it's possible scum!Aristeia acts like that towards town!Math to get people to believe she's acting the same way because she's town again? I don't remember the rules for theorizing about why she replaced (which I do have thoughts on) so I won't talk about that unless someone okays it. Also, as far as I remember Pooky is very good at faking emotions or channeling scum emotions in a townie way.

possibly? though i'm not sure how much of a +ev strategy that would be for scum!her, considering at the time that blowout happened, it was me, her, and math alive (out of people that are also playing this game), frogs had already replaced out i think, and i'm not sure how much skitt, nero, or vp were paying attention to the shitfest from the dead thread.

like, that's genuinely the only logic i can actually see behind scum!her acting the way she was acting this game, and i'll admit that it's not *impossible* for her to act that way, but like. idk, it doesn't seem likely to me still.

pooky is very good at faking emotions, yeah. i think he usually does it in a pocketing matter more so than... "scream at mathblade to get the attention on him" matter.

and i do think discussing repouts is against the rules.

Thanks for the response. Noted on the replace out rules.

"he usually does it in a pocketing manner" is not convincing to me because that recent game apparently has a lot of overlap in the playerlist and I think T least one of the people would notice if Aristeia was acting wildly differently with Math? I consider the blowup NAI, I guess.

[Yeet]

so I had these vague feelings that

I remembered you might be townie

. I saw that you were the largest wagon and was more focused on trying to move the game forward at the time so I did that.

thank you for clarifying

I'm not sure if you're quoting that in a sarcastic way that I contradicted myself or if it's genuine? But what I'm trying to say there (since I know you like concision) is I had an initial TR on you and it was eroded first by two people rebutting my points and second over time/my focus on something else.

[Yeet]

now i'm trying to evaluate whether it really is scummy to vote someone you think is town vs someone you think is null. I believe the choices were Wu, Nordom, and I. Interesting that he would join a wagon he does not support because he felt that it was necessary for game progress. i dont think i buy that at all.

I thought your wagon was way higher at the time. And honestly, as scum I don't see why I wouldn't at least try to fake a backtrack or be too scared to actually vote you. I feel like the risks as a scumplayer outweigh any benefits.

[Yeet]

Plot development, content, etc., really whatever ends up happening I feel is generally good. I have been in games where town just sits around on their vanity wagon all day and almost nothing gets accomplished, and scum are easily able to move the wagons away from themselves because people don't want to compromise on pushing people. I thought it was necessary to set this tone at the time so that we do not become one of those towns.

[Yeet]

Don't you feel this wagon on me is generating some interesting content, for example? Now I am feeling a bit of pressure to defend myself and that can help you all evaluate me better too.

[Yeet]

Because fua is currently my top scumspect. It’s pretty simple…

A "bland Iso" is causing your biggest scumread right now?

I think you're full of it... It's a horrible reason to begin with,looking at their Iso makes it even worse.

Got anything better? you just made me really hate this wagon.

A bland, postury ISO is probably better than most scumreads one can get, imo. Also just gut something doesn’t sit right with me.

And i don’t understand how my singular reason made you hate the wagon. There are plenty of other people on this wagon.

I'm going back to this post as being really sketchy now that we believe fua to be town.

I'm interested in people's thoughts on Scorpious's post here. It was so pingy that this alone gave me a bit of doubt that fua was scum at the time, and now that we believe fua is town it looks even worse to me. Assume both me and fua are town. It feels like he is setting up for me to look bad at some point down the line if fua is shown to be town. And again, I don't see why town feels the need to single me out and taunt me here.

[Yeet]

scummy
Scorpious
DeasVail
Eyes without a face
GeneralWu

like here's Mith's gift to mafia pushing 3 lurkers and some rando as scum

Pooky is a certainly a strong player but no one is infallible. I also feel that most of the active players are more likely to be town in this game.

Im not sure what you’re saying here Math. Oh and you can be town too.

Nero, I don’t. They were two independent points against your accusation.

I explain shortly after that those two points are independent. You are arguing you think they are wrong and you think they should be right.

I said, as two independent rebuttals that: 1) they might not be wrong 2) they don't have to be right to be town.

Nero, can you read my (now 2nd) response and tell me if that eases your anxiety about this?

[Yeet]

@HEM Sure we were not close to deadline but that's kind of the point - I don't want to wait until deadline to start advancing plot and having serious wagons. I wanted to have more than just your wagon on D1 and have plenty of time left so that we don't have to do suboptimal things during the time scramble. And in a Large game like this, it is extra hard to coordinate everyone and takes extra long.

Also townlean is a word that means a lot of things, and not everyone does the same thing with their reads of varying confidence. I don't think a particular read changes the actual probability that person is scum by that much, I think it would quite arrogant honestly to assume that it does. But I can understand why it looks weird to you.

I do think you should ponder this though (there is obviously wifom here but I think you should consider how much value it genuinely serves me as scum):

As town I don't care that it looks like I voted for a "townlean", I care about what I'm thinking and writing about at the time (game progression). Although honestly maybe I should've been more cognizant that it might get me scrutiny, but it's just not the priority for me.

As scum I know you're town and every time I make a post I am probably thinking "does this look really bad"? And I think the way I approach this as scum is not some crazy double wifom thing where I know I get scrutinized for this vote down the line when people go down the wagon list and analyze motivations, but rather that I would try and come up with a real reason to scumread you and work the clock to drop my read on you in a "less suspicious" way. It's just a much more intuitive scum approach and I think in practice almost all scum would rather do something like that than what I did.

[Yeet]

{fua, HEM, MathBlade}
{Nero, Datisi}
{VP Baltar, Cape90, DeasVail, fire}
{Aristeia, Frogsterking}
{tenebrous, STD, Malcolm, Wu, eyes} - null tier
{Scorpious, skitter}

[Yeet]

Skitter seems a bit underwhelming in general this game when I've heard as town she is basically a master scum crusher. I also give a little bit of weight to fire's "ping" tell. I also saw people voting there which makes it an appealing vote.

And I honestly haven't read through that much at all and I think that's one of the things I need to look at first, thanks for the reminder.

[Yeet]

though did you like, actually learn anything from the wagon on monkey?

Also I think it's beneficial for the game state to run people up sooner rather than later as a whole. So the intention wasn't really a reaction test on my part that I was dying to analyze myself or anything. But I think you're right that it's still worth rereading, if I get a chance to (with the game moving as fast as it is).

Re: you, Aristeia made me rethink your slot. You started getting very active and your posts did feel very "off the cuff". I started to get the same vibe that she did about your posting and I do feel like as scum you are more methodical/less abrasive and a lot of your later engagement felt like anything but that.

[Yeet]

That is results-oriented thinking. And I am fine slowing down the game a bit now that clearly it can move quickly.

[Yeet]

I'm starting to read go over some of the sections. Can someone explain to me why MathBlade even claimed both of you guys as Mason to begin with? You two weren't even like that high at that point...

Like what was the point? There was plenty of room to start talking yourselves out of the wagon. Instead MathBlade just decided with like half the required votes on you guys not even halfway into D1 to just throw out the mason bomb immediately.

[Yeet]

skitter is really good as town, yeah. the thing i'm thinking of right now is what i commented earlier, i find it weird that there was an actual wagon happening on her seemingly right after she went for a few-day-vla.

Datisi there are 3 people on skitter's "wagon" and two of these people are close to confirmed town.

[Yeet]

the ping tell is really entertaining to me because it reminds me of a game where bob and i were scum, and one of the townies was like "btw bob is scum because he said the word 'fellow' 14 times this game and he says that word more often as town than as scum" and i wanted to bang my head against the wall because it was such a caught for the wrong reasons thing when that game was a complete outlier

anyway, i'm not a huge fan of such takes because good scum (like skitter is) are generally perfectly able to replicate word tics like that so it's more likely to be a coincidence than an actual tell, as i once got townread by someone because i said "hot take" a few times and they looked at my games and concluded i only say that as town

I think your take is very reasonable and I also don't assign a crazy amount of weight to this. But I don't think it's zero.

[Yeet]

it's not that i inherently have a problem with people voting someone they town lean for the greater good of the gamestate or whatever it is. but like, when townies do do that, i expect that they're actively paying attention to how the wagon does, who gets on or off, and are drawing conclusions from it, since it's not something they really like, want to be on. as opposed to scum who decided they're gonna do the "hehe i voted a townlean for the gamestate!" defense.

That may be your expectation of what good townplay is and I would agree to an extent. But a) never said I was good b) rereading is not my strong suit nor is it super enjoyable and this game is long/goes by quickly c) I wanted to respond to present accusations first as I find that keeps me engaged more and up to date. If I was constantly in catchup mode this game would be unplayable and I'd probably be a straight up lurker at this point.

And again I talked about in a post where I look at the scum vs. town motivations for my actions. I really don't think it makes sense to do this as scum and I don't think the excuse is as "convenient" as you think it looks.

[Yeet]

skitter is really good as town, yeah. the thing i'm thinking of right now is what i commented earlier, i find it weird that there was an actual wagon happening on her seemingly right after she went for a few-day-vla.

Datisi there are 3 people on skitter's "wagon" and two of these people are close to confirmed town.

i am in fact aware of that (though there were more people on there previously)

it does not refute my point that it's odd how her wagon took off only once she went v/la and how it's much easier for scum to vote her once she's away. and how your progression on skitter is less than stellar.

That's a fair point. What issues do you have with my skitter progression now?

[Yeet]

These pages have damaged my yeet read successfully but not enough to vote them

Okay, why?

[Yeet]

I feel that I am being very transparent and open with my thought process and I have answered anxieties about me adequately.

[Yeet]

What is the point of interrogating this? It was probably suboptimal but we cannot exactly undo it now.

Trying to understand what happened.

Also HEM keeps blaming my "push the gamestate forward quickly" argument on us running up 3 TPRs.

This was the decision Math and HEM made. I don't think it was necessary.

[Yeet]

I feel that I am being very transparent and open with my thought process and I have answered anxieties about me adequately.

it feels like you are doing your best to LOOK transparent and open, but it comes off looking kinda self-conscious and artificial. but it's also hard to know of that's just who you are, bc I also got those vibes at the start when i was townreading you

Yes, I am trying to be open and transparent. Yes, I'm a little self-conscious since I'm getting flak. Artificial is a bolder claim that I would need you to expand upon if you want to push that.

[Yeet]

I'm starting to read go over some of the sections. Can someone explain to me why MathBlade even claimed both of you guys as Mason to begin with? You two weren't even like that high at that point...

Like what was the point? There was plenty of room to start talking yourselves out of the wagon. Instead MathBlade just decided with like half the required votes on you guys not even halfway into D1 to just throw out the mason bomb immediately.

Semi considering you're trolling now...

Why? Do you feel that the claim was necessary at that point?

[Yeet]

that's not a "wacky radical action that would be such a risk to take as scum" like you're making it out to be

How is it not when like half the game is turning against me now? As scum I technically couldn't have "known" for sure that this would happen, but... really?

[Yeet]

Why? Do you feel that the claim was necessary at that point?

I don't think it was necessary, and debating that point was to some degree why Math ballooned the page count yesterday. It took a lot of effort to get that to stop and it kind of feels like you're trying to prod math so the game becomes harder to read/distracted again.

That was not the intention, and I didn't read much of that tbh.

[Yeet]

mostly with the fact that it's, uh, nonexistent. if i'm going by the reasons mentioned in 2268 - the first one, that she's underwhelming, is eyebrows-raising to me because you never actually mentioned any of that, even when nero was trying to build a wagon/pressure there, so it seems like retconing your read on her that you didn't really have. the ping tell and seeing other people vote there is... okay, i guess? the bigger problem i have is that i don't see a clean trajectory to back that vote up with.

So it's a bad trajectory because I voted first and then explained the vote after? If I explained the read before voting is that suddenly an okay trajectory now...??

[Yeet]

I may need a break from this game. Datisi I know I am taking a bit of my frustration out on you and I'm sorry because I feel like you are one of the voting who is actually engaging with and elaborating for me.

[Yeet]

These pages have damaged my yeet read successfully but not enough to vote them

Okay, why?

You did explain thoroughly but like monkey I am not sure I believe the explanation is truthful.

To be clear, you actively think it's more likely that I am scum lying about this rather than town telling the truth?

Do you have any insight to add to HEM's concerns or do you pretty much stand exactly with what he said?

[Yeet]

I think you are assuming that I was actively engaged in the game when this "Nero push on skitter" was happening which is a big assumption. I was not and didn't even know that this happened.

When did I say I was scumreading her play earlier on (except for that 1 wording confusion)?

[Yeet]

that's not a "wacky radical action that would be such a risk to take as scum" like you're making it out to be

How is it not when like half the game is turning against me now? As scum I technically couldn't have "known" for sure that this would happen, but... really?

is that why there is a wagon on you? if so, the that's... dumb. i don't find it to be scummy...

Ask @HEM

[Yeet]

There are 18 slots I need to evaluate in this game, why did it have to be mentioned somewhere?

[Yeet]

If you want me to be more specific, I guess the timeline of my skitter read was something like "scummy for wording thing" -> "uhh fine never mind confusion" -> "ill shelve this for now" -> time and other stuff passes -> "people start voting skitter again" -> "hmm, maybe that's a reasonable vote, I do feel like she's been maybe more underwhelming and I had her had nullish anyway".

If that doesn't line up with what you think my ISO would imply, let me know where and what questions you have.

[Yeet]

You don't think I have been showing a solvy process at all this game...? Sure my recent posts have been focused on defense based on the circumstances, but I think I have been at various times been "solvey". I would say that's a strong characteristic of my towngame, so if truly aren't seeing solviness in my posts, I would objectively consider that a good reason to vote me.

[Yeet]

Well my top scumread was fua and we all know how that turned out. skitter and Scorpious are lowest on my list right now but it doesn't mean I have a strong scumread on her or anything like that.

[Yeet]

VOTE: GeneralWu actually, this is a better place for my vote now that it's bigger. skitter will contribute regardless but I think we should draw Wu out more.

[Yeet]

Why do you think I'm "desperate townie" rather than "desperate scum"?

[Yeet]

I'm with Scorp, honestly. I am caught up, but the last 40 pages have been worse than worthless, and my vim to continue is suffering. At this point, I am ready to just elim Wu and move on.

My approach is to just engage with the present and not worry too hard about catching up. It definitely comes at the cost of missing some game related things but I think you can still play the game this way at least.

Just a suggestion, you don't have to take it if you don't want to.

[Yeet]

Why do you think I'm "desperate townie" rather than "desperate scum"?

I don't think I can quite put my finger on it without really sitting down and analyzing the language selection in your responses.

I get a vibe of trying to explain a decision that wasn't all that thought through at the time, and just not doing a good job of it I guess. And the could be scum, of course, but I'm paranoid it could just be town you who has struggled to keep up with the game I guess.

This isn't a well thought out point by me, just vibes

Okay thanks for responding. I think I sort of get what you're getting at... maybe.

You don't think I have been showing a solvy process at all this game...? Sure my recent posts have been focused on defense based on the circumstances, but I think I have been at various times been "solvey". I would say that's a strong characteristic of my towngame, so if truly aren't seeing solviness in my posts, I would objectively consider that a good reason to vote me.

it's not about your "solveyness" overall, it's about the fact i didn't really notice you drew a lot of conclusions from the monkey wagon (who you apparently had a townlean on), and i expect a townie who's voting a person who they townlean draw some.

Okay, so it's just that part that you have an issue with, and I think this is a reasonable critique. I mean you have your expectation of how town would handle that spot and I know that I was voting just for overall gamestate boost. But we don't have to keep talking about this for now I guess...

yeet is very good with vulnerability i must say.

by the way yeet, why did you vote generalwu? do you think scorpious was townspewing?

I mean not really? Idk what I think of Scorpious right now. In order for me to be worried about that one post I quoted I have to assume he's actually trying to win the game as scum? Which it doesn't feel like he's trying to do so right now? But regardless I don't really feel like wagoning him will do that much right now given the way he's acting, and also there's zero wagons on him.

I do think we need Wu to contribute more and I think putting him as a serious wagon will aid in that process, plus he already has a few votes. I think, for example, running me up did motivate me a little bit to engage more. I would be down to compromise on Scorpious later in the day if we can't find a suitable wagon barring nothing major changes.

[Yeet]

fua is probably still town. And independently skitter vs fua really doesn’t feel like SvS.

[Yeet]

Feels like TvT. Don’t think this is how either player approaches today as scum.

[Yeet]

I could maybe, maybe see fua being a serial killer? But I still think they would look more survivalistic. Like their day play doesn’t at all match with how I would expect a serial killer to play. I think it’s more likely they are town for reacting in the way they did (the way they played), and skitter is town for how she is aggressively questioning everything while seemingly pushing in genuine faith. It’s a really difficult balance to strike as scum imo, and while it’s I guess possible skitter is theatreing all of this, it seems unlikely by vibe/gut as well.

[Yeet]

VOTE: Cape90 Let’s start with this greedy hammer vote. Sure it could be town miscounting but scum could totally use that as an excuse. I am unhappy that instead of running Wu up, we ended up straight hammering him, and I have seen scum just go for the kill because wifom. Why Cape is getting zero scrutiny is shocking to me.Plus they are in a hood with VP and Nero and skitter who I all believe to be stronger town than Cape atm.

[Yeet]

Survivalistic, more postury, more ingratiating, not naked aggression and subtle threats all day and throwing a hissy fit, not refusing to claim target and just yell at people, etc.

[Yeet]

Like they were either scum or some confirmable PR (especially vig) by dayplay imo.

[Yeet]

@Yeet can you explain your discrepancies between posts 1214, 1629, 2002 and post 2218.

Initially you push Fua over a pretty consistent period of time, and yet after their vigilante reveal you then indicate you got a vibe they may have had their given role? If that was the case, why were you pushing Fua as potential mafia so consistently?

I'm really not sure what to make of your slot so far in general. Early on you struck me as very town - you were boldly making sometimes baseless accusations without any care as to how you came across but that helped progress the game. But it's notable that your playing style has since changed a fair bit, you seem a bit more tentative now when it comes to making outright accusations despite us having more to go on. Your play feels deliberately more measured and careful, but I'm not sure why that is...after all you didn't necessarily come under a lot of heat for your early posts.

I thought fua’s demeanor made sense with a very specific town role vig. When they claimed that role like exactly, it just clicked for me.

Regardless my demeanor that’s some like psychoanalysis stuff that I’m not really self-aware of, lol. It could have to be with getting under vote pressure changed my tone a bit?

I am vibing with VP it seems

[Yeet]

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

[Yeet]

You’ve probably been mentally adding the posts you’ve made in the scum PT.

[Yeet]

HEM is alive?

[Yeet]

Cape your hammer is not NAI because there is obvious scum motivation to do it.

If anything because it has hyperlinks it was not a planned hammer so lean more town

Hyperlinks?

[Yeet]

re: the hood - i have at least a light town read on everyone, is it possible it's pure? i'll reassess and see if i change my mind.

Yeah maybe, although cape is a ??? For me rn

[Yeet]

I had 3 votes on me at the time. That’s hardly a counterwagon

[Yeet]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

[Yeet]

I feel that I am being very transparent and open with my thought process and I have answered anxieties about me adequately.

I'm reading through teet right now. I think this post encapsulates why I am not seeing yeet as scummy. They seem genuine.

Cape did you read on me flip from eod1? I guess mine on you sorta did too, lol.

[Yeet]

Uh oh, now it just sounds like you have an agenda neighbor!

You made that giant post after I called you out and you don't actually vote me?

Who you calling a coward?

This game is really just that easy

Well then the other one better be scum since its so easy .. Cause I ain't

VOTE: VP Baltar

as a word of advice

this only confirms the fact to me that one of you is mafia and you are probably not both town

Why cant they both be town?

[Yeet]

Did you plan on responding to its substance, or just shading Cape for writing it?

I'll look at it in depth and with good faith when I have a moment (which is not now). That being said, I am extremely skeptical a person puts that much effort into a giant post and doesn't vote. It's a failure of being timid as scum.

How long do you think it took Cape to write that and link all those posts? Two hours? You think he just did that on the fly in response to the most I made this morning just a couple hours ago? I'd say that's very unlikely.

What is more likely is he started last night when I posted in our hood and has been honing it with his scum buddies to reply today. He wasn't expecting me to come after him, probably content to let me and Nero fight it out if Nero is town. Cape knew he was going to have to respond with an overwhelming show of effort to sway town to his side. That's fine. I'll let the record speak for itself when I quote you Cape's viewpoint on Wu yesterday. Standby.

It could’ve taken him at least an hour, looking at the time stamps. I don’t think it’s impossible he did that. “On the fly” is a misrep, however.

[Yeet]

You know an apology for “miscounting” would go a long way. You haven’t shown any regret for quick hammering.

This is a weird post. You, among a number of other people, were keen for turn one to be over and for us to get the game moving. Wu had been given plenty of time to claim and should've known writing was on the wall. Players suddenly being so reticent about the elimination they were pushing, or complaining about an elimination in general when they were willing for the turn to end, is not particularly good.

Please tell me where in my ISO I wanted D1 to be over…?

[Yeet]

UNVOTE: Cape90 Cape and Baltar is probably TvT.

[Yeet]

I think Cape’s reaction today has been pretty annoying but townie. And I independently TR’d VP, also his reactions are what I’d expect as well. And we also vibe on a lot of sentiments but at the end of the road we look for different things as specific alignment tells. I don’t think I explained that very well but that roughly encapsulates where I am on him. There’s very little reason for me to think Baltar is scum, at least.

Fua v skitter
Cape v Baltar
Nero

All these slot seem like town to me. I would like to push outside of these 5 today.

[Yeet]

Wanting to move the game is not the same as wanting D1 to be over immediately.

[Yeet]

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[Yeet]

I don’t townread this slot and honestly I’m sort of running out of places I want to vote.

[Yeet]

I don’t townread this slot and honestly I’m sort of running out of places I want to vote.

are too many of them your partners?

Do you have a real question for me?

[Yeet]

Hm, actually I can see why you think that. I don’t actually 100% agree with Baltar’s statement, I’m not really sure why I quoted it as if I completely agreed. I probably looked for the part that I cared about which is “consolidating as fast as possible” and the fact that we had the same stance. Anyway, the explanation I actually give in the post is what I care about.

[Yeet]

i genuinely think that town overall is being towny here to the point where scum is running out of places to push, and i think a few people have expressed that sentiment lately and i expect at least one of them to be scum just being honest

I could’ve just picked a side for either the skitter fight or the cape fight, I don’t think it would’ve been that hard to justify.

And if you think townies are being so townie too why can’t I think the same thing…

[Yeet]

I don’t townread this slot and honestly I’m sort of running out of places I want to vote.

are too many of them your partners?

I'm also unsure how a player who was basically making absolute claims on who was mafia about two hours into the game is now completely stumped as to who to vote for over 2,000 posts into the game with a multitude of interactions to base their views on. They also conveniently haven't actually presented a scum-case for me at all because they presumably don't have one and feel their suspicions need to go somewhere. Yeet's early approach is still making me wary to be completely certain about their mafia leanings but it's looking more and more convincing, their entire style and approach has increasingly changed as the game has gone on.

Information has changed since 2 hours into the game, funnily enough. And that was early game.

[Yeet]

i genuinely think that town overall is being towny here to the point where scum is running out of places to push, and i think a few people have expressed that sentiment lately and i expect at least one of them to be scum just being honest

Who else has expressed that sentiment and why are you singling me out?

[Yeet]

not sure how much playing of mafia since 2008 has helped him, like come on, I was a literal child back then

i feel so old now

Trust me, I’m way too old to be playing online forum games during work

I do anyways to procrastinate, haha. I can definitely sympathize with this sentiment.

[Yeet]

Did you not read overnight at all?

oh hey, this reminds me of the fact that scorpious entered the day complaining about how many pages there are and how he didn't read, after a period of 48 hours where there we absolutely no posts, isn't that wild haha

To be fair, I often avoid reading during night because of the flawed reasoning that I might die of someone else unexpected might die which would change things.
Of course, I am just lazy, but it’s not hard to come up with a bad excuse!

Same, honestly.

[Yeet]

Phone dropping my current reads before I sleep for reference:

Math
skitter Datisi Baltar Nero cape deasvail enchant - feel decent about these being town for now
Scorpious - ??
fire April tenebro eyes Malcolm frog std - would guess most scum are here

[Yeet]

Do I give you a similar impression, fire?

[Yeet]

Luminary are you pushing Malcolm now, what is happening?

I will say, Frogster's aloofness in this game is very different from his town play in the last game.

What's up with that Frog? You've seemed not super engaged with the flow of the game for awhile now.

Yeah, I think Frogster is being slept on after the very early game which felt kinda townie.

[Yeet]

I don’t Have a strong opinion on tenebro. Could be frustrated Town or AtE scum. I could see either. If I had to pick maybe slightly lean town because it’s a sort of believable frustration.

[Yeet]

VOTE: Frogster

[Yeet]

It’s weird that there’s an implicit expectation that somehow that post was supposed to change your mind on us being partners. Why did you frame it that way?

[Yeet]

I don’t Have a strong opinion on tenebro. Could be frustrated Town or AtE scum. I could see either. If I had to pick maybe slightly lean town because it’s a sort of believable frustration.

You two could easily be teammates and this does nothing to dissuade me of that. You're understandably not jumping onto the wagon but town hinting anyway while not making a particularly strong defence that openly shows you off as partners.

Uh I’m referring to this post haha.

[Yeet]

Actually, I’m not sure I love this wagon anymore? I think I’ll stick around a bit just to see what happens.

[Yeet]

Re skim of ISO, weird naked adamance in pushing me
Skimming Malcolm’s provided ISO
Math’s adamance against the wagon

Enough to make me think it’s certainly possible this is town!Frogster.

[Yeet]

I’m having trouble finding scumreads this game. That’s why I’m poking and prodding around.