Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)

[wolframnhart]

/confirm

[wolframnhart]

just one more we be waiting on it seems

[wolframnhart]

nah, it happens quite a bit I think. Besides, if it takes too long I am sure the mod will replace him and we get a new player that doesn't need to read up on a lot of pages because he got replaced before the day started.

Or the mod will just start the day and find a replacement as the game commences, either way.

[wolframnhart]

Well just be prepared because there are times where a game can stall out for a few days or a Game Day can take a very long time. I was the same way in my first newbie game and i got really frustrated during it.

btw, who is your avatar of? i feel i should know her, she is a celeb right?

[wolframnhart]

Actually the person that we are waiting on seems to not have posted since his sign up for this game, I do hope he does log in and confirm though.

[wolframnhart]

Gotta say, a Grimms Fairy Tale mafia makes a certain sense in the way that the Grimm's brothers tales were not all happy, they were pretty violent and dark, much like mafia

[wolframnhart]

LoL very

[wolframnhart]

vote kloud1516

the dude has Sephiroh as an avatar, obvious scum

[wolframnhart]

Mmm ok thanks, i see it now.. the eyes of Vesper!

[wolframnhart]

voting Gorrad is the correct thing to do?

[wolframnhart]

lol fair enough

[wolframnhart]

Lol took me a sec there i'm all "Big and bad? Do i give off that vibe?" then i realize you are talking about my name.. with Wolf being in it, like the Big Bad Wolf. /facepalm

[wolframnhart]

I think this is your first game right fleur? If it isn't by pass this ramble of mine but games normally start off in Random Vote stage, reason being there is no real info to go on at the get go. Once people start random voting and perhaps a wagon or two (depending on game size) is formed people then usually give more information to go off of, like reasons why they voted or unvoted a person, why they are on a wagon, who they think is scum (though that usually comes later unless someone has REALLY been acing scummy right away). It's all to generate discussion and the like. Sometimes it takes a day or two but no worries, it will pick up in serious discussion sooner or later.

And this game isn't TOTALLY based on cheating and lying, just in my view parts of it are. If you are a scum member, of course you try to cheat and lie, and not get caught, so you can win. If you are townie the only reason i can see you wanting to cheat and lie is if you are hiding a power role that you don't want the mafia to find out about, otherwise cheating and lying too much as a town can be very ant-town and put focus on you, the townie, and not on where it should be, the mafia, so there is a fine line you have to be careful on imho.

But since you bring it up, how would you like to see the game be more interesting and why would you want to make the game more complex?

[wolframnhart]

I am not the Big Bad Wolf Porkens, and since when was the wolf german? I must have missed that in the story.

What makes you even think we have the Bid Bag Wolf in this game out of all the different story villains there could be?

[wolframnhart]

who is your avatar of Plum?

[wolframnhart]

Well if Spyrex is the person i believe he is, then we have to say his name correctly. In the story the queen got three tries i believe, and I am not sure about helping someone who was a villain in a story.. hmmm

[wolframnhart]

Also if i am understanding Spyrex right if we say the name wrong something bad happens, either to us or to him.. and i am guessing us.

[wolframnhart]

Alas, this isn't true.
The bad is for me and not you.

I dunno SpyreX, if the Queen said his name wrong three times your character was going to take her baby, so for you to say the bad is for you and not us doesn't seem truthful to me, but that is just my opinion.

[wolframnhart]

We can go back and forth on this for awhile I bet lol

As it is I am not saying the name, because you are asking players way early in the game to trust you and say your name properly. For all I know this is a trick and you could be hoping someone says it wrong three times and that is your true mission, because that was the mission of your char in the story.

However if someone else wants to give it a shot that is up to them.

[wolframnhart]

Good amount happened while i was at work.
Even though it was already stated I too am keeping an eye on Fleur due to her over defensiveness of SpyreX. To say you are going to fight for someones life, then have that person tell you to not defend him is just too odd to pass up.

unvote

FoS Fleur and SpyreX

[wolframnhart]

so i think i'm done.
i don't know who spyrex is and i didn't understand that it is a character's name taht we have to mention, so i thought about his avatar name-rather stupid, but well.

You say you didn't understand it was his characters name we have to mention, yet those of us that have posted out thoughts about SpyreX trying to get us to say his name have all avoided saying it, just saying his Character (in my case especially) and Bio even did blank underlines.

i think i might know who SpyreX is in the game, and I definitely am going to fight for his life:P

You said here you think you know who he is in the game.

spyrex rhymes and things-it is cool and i was thinking more in terms of Grimm tales, and his rhymes remind me of one story, and basically it is a rather good character-good for me

And here you said he reminded you of a story, and the fact you also say it is good for you, not so much good for town, just you, is odd.

BTW what do you mean you are done?

[wolframnhart]

since when was the wolf german? I must have missed that in the story.

Since....the stories were written? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimms_fairy_tales


C'mon, it's not THAT far of a stretch to think there would be a big bad wolf in a fairy tale game, is it?

Ya know, i have never realized they were German, weird.

[wolframnhart]

Gah again so many things happen when i am at work! Ok with reference to Fleur. I cannot excuse her posts and pass them off as bad newbie town play, because it is not a good idea to turn a blind eye to that. First she claims her new tactic is to remain quiet, which is never a good thing for someone that is supposed to be pro-town, that seems more like a newbie scum slip trying to stay under the radar. Second, SpyreX didn't need her to "make him stay" by going to extreme defense of him, because he was never in any danger and the "People" that didn't trust him at that time was only Plum and I, and we hadn't even done much but question him, and I still don't get what she is done about and why the number of votes matter. Does she mean she is done talking until we unvote her? Really confused there.

Then to toss in the assumption that if she dies the town might die is just too much, again an extreme defense, this time a defense for her to try and get us to unvote. When asked if it was a role hint or trying to intimidate us, she didn't think she should answer that. She then goes on to say her role is important to town and scum, it just doesn't make sense.

vote Fleur

[wolframnhart]

I understand the concern on that Bio, but because of all the unvoting against her my vote i think is the third on her atm, maybe fourth if i counted wrong. I do agree however that she should claim.

[wolframnhart]

Actually Dahill1 unvoted her in the fifth post on this page, leaving Gorrad and SpyreX on her. So my vote puts her at L-3

[wolframnhart]

also he only role i can hink would make the town loose, not kill them per say as fleur said, just loose, i highly doubt he mod would use. I honestly believe that Fleur is just trying to intimedate us into unvoting her. The reason i think this is because of quotes like this:

Shouldn't we make it more complex?

I heard this game is all about cheating and lying

but we all vote randomly...how can we make it more interesting?

[wolframnhart]

You have more then one mission?

And it is strange how you go from "What if my death means all the own dies" and "my role helps town and scum" to "I'm a prince who is town." I just don't see the connection, bu maybe someone else can point it out.

[wolframnhart]

I don't think anyone can consider themselves so important for the town that if they die scum would win the whole game. I only say this because it somewhat seems that we might all start off as vanilla townie and gain an ability, power role, item or whatever if we complete our quests, but of course if someone does have a role or whatever please keep this to yourself so scum do not get extra info.

Also to claim Prince could easily be a scum safe claim, and your actions up to your claim do not seem pro-town to me.

[wolframnhart]

Of course it says town, but that is something you could just have easily put in there yourself, you wouldn't put Prince (mafia) or Prince (serial killer) you would put in the one thing that wouldn't get you killed, town. Regardless I still stand by my point saying it could be a safe claim and your actions haven't been pro-town to me.

And with you backtracking on he SpyreX name/char issue i don't see why a "Prince" character would "Defend his life" of SpyreX's pretty obvious character, it just doesn't make sense to me, but I would like other's opinion on the matter.

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Fleurdelys (3): Gorrad, SpyreX, wolframnhart
Porkens (1): fleurdelys
SpyreX (1): Plum

Not voting (6): mikanoff, CoheedCambria09, dahill1, kloud1516, Biohazard, Porkens

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[wolframnhart]

yes, but I was asked to claim and this was what i understood as claiming-i don't know other way to prove you.

yes, at this stage i am being desperate

and maybe that's why i was so confused and confusing at the same time.

my tactic of remaining quiet was planned only because i could not explain myself anymore

- for me what i thought had made sense, however, i have to admit it might have not been so clear from the objective point of view (meaning, what i think is completely subjective and so it ight only be so clear to me)
i did not think a lot about what you think of spyrex and rather enthusiastically thought about some other character from Grimm's tales. apparently, it was different from what you thought, and i know everything was so obvious for you (who he was)- well it wasn't for me.
and yes, i have messed up with avatars and grimm's characters here- and i'm sorry for that.

at this stage i am being desperate to stay

-believe me or not-this is my first game, although i admit i heard a lot about it- and

i just want to have a chance to play as long as i can, so give me a chance

Bolded pars are mine. I am still happy with my vote, but i do admit i am kind of wavering. She admits being desperate, twice, and wants to play as long as she can, and makes a plea to emotion. The quiet tactic just because she couldn't explain herself (which she is doing fine it seems now) seems contradictory to me, but, maybe i am just looking too hard at this and again, i think i would like ohers opinions on the matter.

[wolframnhart]

@Bio
1)I think anyone, townie or scum, would act this desperate with votes on them, especially considering how close she was to being lynched at one point, and even more so with the part of her quote i pointed out saying she wanted to play as long as possible.
2)I think I touched on this on my previous post already.
3)A newbie that was told about this from a friend. She could say her friend did/did not give her tips, i would be up to us whether or not to believe her.

[wolframnhart]

Sorry dahill1, sometimes i am not thinking properly when i am typing

[wolframnhart]

I was told to persuade you instead of not talking, and that was the only argument i could think of

what? who told you to persuade us?

my thoughts exactly.

[wolframnhart]

unvote

BUT i still want a

FoS Fleur

mostly because I still find her play scummy, and I am not about to dismiss her just because she has fully claimed with a mission that is pro-town seeming, it could still be a ploy.

I do not really like the quick voting against Gorrad and Porkens to be honest. Sirdanilot voted porkens right away, then gorrad was voted, and then two more votes onto Porkens. ATM I am looking at the Porkens wagon because I think there migh be scum on that wagon.

[wolframnhart]

burmmmm, um, what else are you looking for?

what?

i second that... what?

[wolframnhart]

How was the mission obvious? As a Prince there could be tons of different missions to be given out, it's not like "Oh Prince role, then he MUST be after Cinderella" it could be "Oh hes after rapunzel" or snow white, sleeping beauty etc.

[wolframnhart]

way to say his name without even consulting with anyone else..

QFT

In fact, Porkens, what made you think he was pro-town enough to say his name without consulting anyone else?

[wolframnhart]

Dont make me cry,
there's only one try!

My name can be the only reply
and there can be no lie

I know its absurd
but that can be the ONLY word

I don't think SpyreX's mission will be completed because Porkens tried once already and it had to be the only word in the post. Porkens messed up the first time. Unless I am wrong SPyreX?

[wolframnhart]

i actually just realized that Spyre probably is town mainly due to him trying to complete his mission openly. the first post said that mission bonuses are revealed once they're completed, so he would have no reason to do it openly as scum, since we would lynch him if the bonus was anti-town.
however, i can easily see Porkens, (if Spyre is town), saying the word just to gain some town points.

the bonuses are revealed yes, but I don't think that would clear anyone. He bonus could be good for the scum (assuming Spyrex is scum) but worded to where no one could really tell.

[wolframnhart]

I agree wholeheartedly that what Porkens did was not the most pro-town thing i have seen, nor is his smug attitude about it, whoever, i believe Porkens has already made reference to his char and if I was to go based off just that I don't think it would be a anti-town role, honestly i would think SpyreX's is, that however is second guessing the mod who could have easily made non scummy seeming roles scummy.

[wolframnhart]

Right now I am ok with it,but only for right now. If SpyreX proves to be less a help to the town if and when he targets someone, I would see him more as a liability. I also don't get your first question coheed, do you expect him to say no?

[wolframnhart]

If I miss in a cinch,
you'll want my lynch?

I dont find that tasty,
its rather hasty.

No I am not trying to say right away, but if it seems like you are killing off people without a really good explanation as to why, i would seriously start reconsidering my stance on you is all.

[wolframnhart]

I have ambiguous feelings right now. I was thinking Porkens was quiet and I really don't like Owen Wilson-and I reckon it's him on the avatar:(-that was the cause of my first voting. Then, he became a little scummy by lurking, and then making his independent decision without consulting the town. Also, if Porkens is a scum and Spyrex is pro-town then Porkens might want to ruin his mission, and I think he didn't pronounce Spyrex' character's name correctly when he first wrote it, so I still think Porkens behaves scummy

Ok first, how was Porken lurking anymore then any other person? Gorrad and in a small way Plum (no offense to either) could have the same thing said about them at that time. Also are you saying there is no other posting done by him from his "lurking time" to his "independent decision" where you also thought he was scummy? As it is you seem to be picking up on parts that others have voiced and reiterating them to give you reason for keeping your vote on one person since the RV stage.

I am no dope,
she needs a rope!

My target stays inside,
So they cant run and hide.

Now it is different- Spyrex was pointing me desperately for a quite a long time, although I was ignoring it. This time he strongly suggests that I am a scum, but he actually never says why he thinks so. His tone is though really strong, and I don't like it.

UNVOTE: PORKENS

And then here you unvote Porkens while stating that SpyreX's tone against you is strong and you don't like it? Then who do you think is scummy and why Fleur?

[wolframnhart]

When did he call you stupid? And the fact about Porkens is before his unvote of you with no explanation he never had a reason to explain himself or need any defense. He has defended his actions thus so far though.

@Dahall1
What is the difference between Co's trust in Spyrex because he said he was pro-town, and the trust Fleur got by saying she was a Prince(town) role?

[wolframnhart]

Oh im not completely trusting SpyreX either, i believe i stated that before. I still just don't see much of a difference between what Fleur did and what SpyreX has done. Fleur claimed a specific role and mission to make her seem town and get votes off of her, and SpyreX just came out and said "i'm pro-town", the result was the same even if the methods were different.

[wolframnhart]

Oh im not completely trusting SpyreX either, i believe i stated that before. I still just don't see much of a difference between what Fleur did and what SpyreX has done. Fleur claimed a specific role and mission to make her seem town and get votes off of her, and SpyreX just came out and said "i'm pro-town", the result was the same even if the methods were different.

i guess it's different for everyone
but fleur's was convincing to me

Fair enough

[wolframnhart]

@Porkens

why the dahill1 vote?

[wolframnhart]

@Fleur

What question? You did answer the previous one then the very last one that i asked, that you have not answered, was when did SpyreX call you stupid? The only thing i can think of is you might have the other game we are in mixed up.

[wolframnhart]

for this game yes.

[wolframnhart]

thats going a little far to say that SpyreX is calling you stupid, seems a bit of over exaggeration to me on your part, but you are not really voting him because of it so *shrug* guess there is no real harm done.

[wolframnhart]

I like Bio's post, i also am questioning Fleurs sudden vote, but i very much agree that we have two players that need to start posting more.

[wolframnhart]

maybe it is time to change technique;)

You were about to do the same thing Fleur, when you were about to be quiet with all the votes on you.

[wolframnhart]

Oh, and for the scum that may or may not be pressing me- my role is probably the coolest one I've seen in a long time. However, it has an unexpected upside- if I die, it does hurt town, but it hurts scum almost as much. It's one of those everyone loses scenarios (looses the scenario, not the game or anything).

this is sounding to me a lot like Fleur's "I am valuable to scum and to town" post she did.

[wolframnhart]

I am in agreement SpyreX, which is why i did not vote gorrad for it. In all honesty i still can't shake the Fleur is scum feeling but that post by Gorrad didn't really help him in my opinion.

[wolframnhart]

what exactly are you trying to get across Fleur? If i read those right and those quotes within the quote are yours, I am in agreement with SpyreX's case against you.

[wolframnhart]

vote Gorrad

I have to agree with dahill1 here. I really didn't find gorrad scummy, but his recent posting hasn't helped him much in my mind and his stance of "i know what i am doing" when asked about how his "i am important" was different from Fleurs.

[wolframnhart]

I think Porkens is right, i think he was at L-1 before plum unvoted him, and is now at L-2 unless i counted wrong.

[wolframnhart]

Ok i will be a work today doing a spli shift, so if i don't post later i will try to get on tomorrow after work if i don't fall to the floor and pass out. In the meantime SpyreX, could you please tell us which of the two NK's you killed and why?

[wolframnhart]

I don't like your post, wolf-the new one. why are you so openly accusing spyrex of killing? i think if he could choose he would choose me:/

Umm lets see Fleur, because he is a vig due to porkens helping him fullfill his mission? So the obvious person other then the mafia that killed a person was SpyreX, which is why i asked him o explain the why on whomever it was he killed off, which he claims to be Sirdanilot. The fact that you are upset that Sirdanilot was killed, because of his logic and helping defend you, and lets face it you were probably going to be lynched until he came in, which unfortunatly since we don't know alignment i could say he was your partner and helped get you out of a bind, and now he is gone and you are sad at that fact. So you vote SpyreX because of that, then you unvote him with a "detective role" theory? If you mean a cop role then he would only know if sirdanilot was guilty, unless SpyreX had a second ability.

FoS Fleur

[wolframnhart]

I agree that the shoe thing confirms Fleur's role, but i don't believe it confirms her alignment right now. I am sure we can all say why would the prince be a mafia member if he is trying to find someone, and i have no answer for that. For all i know he could be the ogre from puss in boots disguised as a prince finding cinderella, something weird like that. But for now (i realize everyone has said this) i don't like the night action choice by Fleur. There was no reason to test SpyreX when he claimed Rumple, in fact just because he was not the person you were looking for doesn't prove anything Fleur, just that he isn't the princess, and also i am not saying that SpyreX isn't Rumple, but i think you all get what i mean (at least i hope you do).

@SpyreX
What makes you sure that Porkens was Hansel? I can get why you thought he was one of the two characters, but why Hansel by name?

[wolframnhart]

The answer by far,
lies in his avatar.

At the start of the game,
this picture did change.

To what it became?
Someone with that name.

Maybe i am missing something in translation here, but you are saying that Porkens changed his avatar to someone that looked like Hansel? And by that you mean Owen Wilson playing "Hansel" in Zoolander? Thats a pretty far reach.

[wolframnhart]

Yea I get the reason why you would think Porkens was one of the two kids, Hansel or Gretel, i saw that post by him too, I just thought that because you were so sure he was Hansel and Gretel is still alive (and lets face it maybe because no one has answered yet sirdanilot could have been Gretel, or else Gretel is staying quiet for his/her own reasons) that i thought you were privvy to info that made you sure Porkens was Hansel, i just didn't think it came from his avatar.

[wolframnhart]

huh, well i am inclined to believe that Plum is indeed Gretel, the knowledge of the reason why the communication rule was changed and the reasoning why is too much to be untrue on her part. Of course where we go from here is a different matter.

Personally i can't shake the Fleur vibe. I am still hung up on the fact of why she would give SpyreX the shoe. Why waste a night action like that? It is obvious she gave the shoe to SpyreX because he admitted he recieved it, but to what point? She wanted to check him? Check him on what? To see if he was really Rumple? Fleur does your ability tell you who the person's character really is once they get the shoe and it doesn't fit?

It just seems such a safe thing to do, giving the shoe to someone who was so obviously not the person you were looking for, and now the question becomes why would someone who is possibly scum do that? The shoe didn't kill SpyreX nor did it seem to impede him in anyway. Actually before i go on with my train of thought, Spyrex, can you go into more detail about what happened with the shoe? Where you given it and tried it on and told it didn't fit (too big/too small)? Do you stil have it or did you give it back?

[wolframnhart]

@Spyrex

I agree with you on the lurking issue, and would like to know what exactly about dahill1 gives you weird feelings.

The shoe theory i was going on is this. As i asked before why would a person who claims to be Prince, not Prince Charming just Prince, give a shoe to someone who was so obviously not the Princess? Fleur claims:

I have just thought I am going to check every single person randomly. Yes, the technique might be bad but it is the one i feel comfortable with. How can i be sure that spyrex's claim was true? so i have just checked him -just in case
and now, i am sure

She wanted to start by checking every single person randomly. First, there is not enough time to do that (i know it is nit picking on my part but she put it up there) and if it was random on her part, then why does she admit she did it with Spyrex to see if his claim is true? There was really no doubt that SpyreX is Rumple, and since the shoe doesn't tell her who the character is, then there is nothing that told her specifically that SpyreX's claim is true, just that he is not the Princess Fleur is looking for. So why would Fleur give the shoe to SpyreX? To lock in her role claim as Prince, as we have come to believe because SPyreX got a shoe.

But does that mean that Fleur is really Prince? No it doesn't, and that is what i am getting at. All it means is she wasn't lying when she said she had a shoe and was trying to find who the shoe fits, Fleur could be any role doing that, it could be something as easy as the Stepmother trying to find who the shoe fits to stop the Prince from finding the Princess. I don't know about you guys, but my mission does not say what happens when i complete it, just that i get a bonus, yet Fleur has stated:

I wrote something once asking if i should claim my missions- that was a spelling mistake, i meant should i claim my mission. i don;'t have more than one

Then stated today:

Ok, so every night i have a chance to check one person. if the shoe i found suits him/her

i get a bonus mission.

i didn't get it yet, cause i didn't find the person tonight. i am a prince

She said she has only one mission, yet she also says if she finds the person the shoe fits she gets a bonus mission, so there is a contradiction there.

Due to the this and the fact that i still find her scummy as i did yesterday:

vote fleur

[wolframnhart]

I am not sure i see where you are coming from there Bio. SpyreX is right, why would he be scum with vigilante powers? That would really seem unbalanced to me. Care to explain your though process on that one a little more?

[wolframnhart]

mod can we prod dahill1 and kloud? kloud is past 3 days and dahill1 will be at three days today since his last post.[/b[

[wolframnhart]

sorry was v/la friday and saturday
i don't really see the case on biohazard..
also, lots of people have been saying "scum vigilante" aka a scum with 2 kills..but it could easily be just regular scum pretending to be a vigilante..
that being said, i do think spyre is town at the moment and if i had to pick scum right now i'd probably say coheedcambria, kloud, wolframnhart. (this is assuming there are 3 scum)

Any particular reasoning behind thinking that if there are three scum that it would be myself, coheed, and kloud?

[wolframnhart]

Really not sure i get that dahill1, how can you besure of anything, especially process of elimination, when we can't even tell right now if the people that are gone are even town or scum? Sirdanilot could have been scum, Porkens was not obivously due to the fact that if SpyreX killed Sirdanilot that means Porkens was the townie killed by mafia.

[wolframnhart]

Coheed who is in your top suspects list and why?

[wolframnhart]

I'm here.

Coheed, do you believe that due to dahill1's logic that that alone made him deserving of a vote? Or was there something else?

and what did you mean by:

The lastest time you used PoE was not the first either.

[wolframnhart]

He did? where did i miss that?

[wolframnhart]

But what you are missing on that last quote CC is dahill1s explanation of why he found you are the most scummy, which is in my opinion the most inportant part.

@dahill: why do you find me as one of the most scummy people in the game (just curious)

I'd like to see a vote count soon because those two quick votes on Gorrad put him at L-2 I believe.

mainly by process of elimination

i don't think you're

that

scummy. you're mainly only down there for that one situation with Spyre about trusting him, which isn't incredibly big, but it's something

The bolded part i did, which is what i am talking about.

vote CC

I believe that leaving that part of the quote out is misinterpreting dahills quote, making it seem like it was only by process of elimination when there was more to it then that.

Mod: not counted, unvote first

[wolframnhart]

unvote

wanna give klouds replacement time to catch up and see CC's explanation