Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:01 pm

Post by wolframnhart »

Of course it says town, but that is something you could just have easily put in there yourself, you wouldn't put Prince (mafia) or Prince (serial killer) you would put in the one thing that wouldn't get you killed, town. Regardless I still stand by my point saying it could be a safe claim and your actions haven't been pro-town to me.

And with you backtracking on he SpyreX name/char issue i don't see why a "Prince" character would "Defend his life" of SpyreX's pretty obvious character, it just doesn't make sense to me, but I would like other's opinion on the matter.


Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Fleurdelys (3): Gorrad, SpyreX, wolframnhart
Porkens (1): fleurdelys
SpyreX (1): Plum

Not voting (6): mikanoff, CoheedCambria09, dahill1, kloud1516, Biohazard, Porkens

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:02 pm

Post by Plum »

Unvote:SpyreX
. We're out of the random stage; the vote's served its purpose.

Wow this game moved fast :shock:. I hope it won't be too hard for me to catch up when I go V/LA Monday through Wednesday or maybe Thursday. Luckily that's the only time I can think of that I'll be away for the forseeable future.

Anyway, I'm going to do a recap/analysis of Fleur's posts; it'll help me make sense of it, if nothing else.

First she says that she thinks she knows who SpyreX is and will fight for his life. She then says she's thought about it and has a good feeling about him, and follows up by saying that his rhyming post restriction makes her think of a story she assumes is pro-town. That's rather much to assume; in addition, it becomes clear to me here that she's probably not thinking of the character we seem to be thinking of, as she only notes his rhyming; she acknowledges this. Furthermore, it's hard to tell what impression she actually thought and appears to be contradicting herself. Weird early defensiveness towards SpyreX, too, though his response telling her not to defend him, in my mind, a null-tell. She further elaborates that she doesn't know SpyreX's role but thought we had to say his 'avatar name' (title?) in the thread. I recently skimmed the beginning of a newbie game where a newbie thought that the titles were game-relevent (interestingly enough, SpyreX's current title appears to be 'Mafia Scum' :?). I don't like her tactical decision to 'be quiet', either. Lurking is in almost all cases not a viable tactic for town or scum, no?

Her responses to questions state that she thought she knew his character and thought he was pro-town, which is rather at odds with her comment about it having to do with 'avatar names'. The explaination for the defense is rather odd as well - as Dahill said, she seems to have defended him to be contrary, or at least without any relevent reason. Furthermore, as Wolf said, at that time it was only him and me expressing at best moderate distrust of SpyreX; this doesn't sit well with me.

Then
she implies that we're not thinking about what her role might be: 'What if my death means that all the town dies? What if my death means that all the town dies?'. Huh? It's hard to tell whether the statement was meant literally (that her death would cause the death of the whole town), which would make me think lying scum, but it's still at least vaguely threatening and in the wrong place altogether. As far as I can tell, at that point she was under pressure but had only two votes, as many as she'd had in the random stage (heck, I'm a bit too lazy to look it up, but they might have
been
random votes), though Bihazard attempted to vote her but forgot to unvote, I think. She follows up by saying that her role is important for both townies and scum. I'm not sure what to make of this; she might be scum being a little too close to truthful or town hoping that it will convince scum not to vote her. She's worried about claiming because she's worried about being NK'd and wonders if there's a Doc to protect her. But, well, she claimed as I was writing this up.
i am important for scum, because i am an important player in the game-as i said, what if they kill me and this means they win the whole game? even if not, as a member of town i would hate being killed as an important member-for town's sake
that's why i felt uncomfortable with revealing my character earlier, and asked for the doctor to take care of me during nights
Weird
to think that killing you means the scum win if the mod hasn't told you anything to that effect.

So, some questions for Fleur: You didn't seem to think what we were thinking about SpyreX's mission. What,
exactly
, were you thinking. Detail would be appreciated, even if you end up feeling that you're being redundant. Also, you said that your role is highly important for town as well as scum, and that's why we should give you a chance. Why do you think that?

HOS:Fleur
.
But it says "town" in my role description i gave you
.

Pie is good. (Town) in role doesn't mean a whole whole lot.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:03 pm

Post by kloud1516 »

fleurdelys wrote:But it says "town" in my role description i gave you
Yes, but this does not mean that you are necessarily telling the truth.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:20 pm

Post by fleurdelys »

yes, but I was asked to claim and this was what i understood as claiming-i don't know other way to prove you.
yes, at this stage i am being desperate and maybe that's why i was so confused and confusing at the same time. my tactic of remaining quiet was planned only because i could not explain myself anymore- for me what i thought had made sense, however, i have to admit it might have not been so clear from the objective point of view (meaning, what i think is completely subjective and so it ight only be so clear to me)
i did not think a lot about what you think of spyrex and rather enthusiastically thought about some other character from Grimm's tales. apparently, it was different from what you thought, and i know everything was so obvious for you (who he was)- well it wasn't for me.
and yes, i have messed up with avatars and grimm's characters here- and i'm sorry for that.
at this stage i am being desperate to stay-believe me or not-this is my first game, although i admit i heard a lot about it- and i just want to have a chance to play as long as i can, so give me a chance
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:26 pm

Post by wolframnhart »

fleurdelys wrote:yes, but I was asked to claim and this was what i understood as claiming-i don't know other way to prove you.
yes, at this stage i am being desperate
and maybe that's why i was so confused and confusing at the same time.
my tactic of remaining quiet was planned only because i could not explain myself anymore
- for me what i thought had made sense, however, i have to admit it might have not been so clear from the objective point of view (meaning, what i think is completely subjective and so it ight only be so clear to me)
i did not think a lot about what you think of spyrex and rather enthusiastically thought about some other character from Grimm's tales. apparently, it was different from what you thought, and i know everything was so obvious for you (who he was)- well it wasn't for me.
and yes, i have messed up with avatars and grimm's characters here- and i'm sorry for that.
at this stage i am being desperate to stay
-believe me or not-this is my first game, although i admit i heard a lot about it- and
i just want to have a chance to play as long as i can, so give me a chance
Bolded pars are mine. I am still happy with my vote, but i do admit i am kind of wavering. She admits being desperate, twice, and wants to play as long as she can, and makes a plea to emotion. The quiet tactic just because she couldn't explain herself (which she is doing fine it seems now) seems contradictory to me, but, maybe i am just looking too hard at this and again, i think i would like ohers opinions on the matter.
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:17 pm

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fleurdelys wrote:You are The Prince (town), you know, the son of a king, who appears in most stories in which there’s also a beautiful girl.

Should I reveal my missions as well?
fleurdelys wrote:i am important for scum, because i am an important player in the game-as i said, what if they kill me and this means they win the whole game? even if not, as a member of town i would hate being killed as an important member-for town's sake
that's why i felt uncomfortable with revealing my character earlier, and asked for the doctor to take care of me during nights
Not believing it. I can believe the part up to where you are the prince and the rest of the description but I don't believe that if you die scum win and it is essential for you to stay alive for the town's sake. The description of your character had said nothing of the prince's vital importance to the town and if the scum killed you town loses and scum win. Why? Well looking back on your previous post you state "what if I die and the whole town dies?" which I'm pretty sure you were trying to state that if you die town loses as you mention in your above post. What strikes me is that your stating "what if I die? what if town loses? can a doc protect me?" It's utter nonsense. It's bascially a one way out of getting killed at all and sliding your way to victory. If someone questions you you can just pull the townie card with big letters saying "if I die we all lose"

I'm really tempted to vote you but I want to ask a few questions to the town:
.Would an actual townie act this desperate with just a few votes on them?
.What do you guys think of the "I die we all lose" claim
.Do any of you think this could be a scum gambit (especially with a newbie?)
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:28 pm

Post by fleurdelys »

i never stated that if i die, the town lose-i said what if
Its not just a few votes-i got like four and only three people haven't voted yet so it is quiet clear who will be done
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:29 pm

Post by wolframnhart »

@Bio
1)I think anyone, townie or scum, would act this desperate with votes on them, especially considering how close she was to being lynched at one point, and even more so with the part of her quote i pointed out saying she wanted to play as long as possible.
2)I think I touched on this on my previous post already.
3)A newbie that was told about this from a friend. She could say her friend did/did not give her tips, i would be up to us whether or not to believe her.
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:35 pm

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first off, i think fleur should claim her mission ASAP for a reason which i will say after she claims it.
next,@ fleur: i still don't see how killing your role makes the scum win..can you elaborate?
@wolf: i'm a guy :oops:
@bio: definitely don't think a simple townie would be this desperate to survive. and if she is a power role, she sure hasn't claimed it. also, you have to keep in mind the pre-game scum talk in which a more experienced scum could have given her some tips
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:39 pm

Post by wolframnhart »

Sorry dahill1, sometimes i am not thinking properly when i am typing :D
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:46 pm

Post by Plum »

I'm not sure what reason Dahill has for asking Fleur to claim her mission, but as she's so close to being lynched I'm not sure how much harm would come of it. Her desperation to survive is a little excessive for someone who appears to have claimed vanilla, I agree.

Fleur: Why did you 'what if' with no basis/did you have a basis for doing so, besides flavor speculation? What made you think your role might be that crucial and valuble? Also - what
exactly
were you thinking regarding SpyreX? Please elaborate, even if you feel you're being redundant.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:13 pm

Post by fleurdelys »

I was told to persuade you instead of not talking, and that was the only argument i could think of
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:16 pm

Post by dahill1 »

fleurdelys wrote:I was told to persuade you instead of not talking, and that was the only argument i could think of
what? who told you to persuade us?
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:23 pm

Post by wolframnhart »

dahill1 wrote:
fleurdelys wrote:I was told to persuade you instead of not talking, and that was the only argument i could think of
what? who told you to persuade us?
my thoughts exactly.
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:27 pm

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fleurdelys wrote:i never stated that if i die, the town lose-i said what if
Its not just a few votes-i got like four and only three people haven't voted yet so it is quiet clear who will be done
*sigh* You do relize that "what ifs" are going to get us nowhere in discussion. Part of me really wants to see you as a newbie who really doesn't quite understand the concept of mafia (this is not to insult you just a general observation) but with your previous actions I don't if I can just take you up on the newbie card. Your previous posts contained a poor defence and then you pull out "what if I die then town loses" thing. I tend to think that even for a newbie wouldn't pull this kind of thing with the "what ifs". It seems to me an overly desperate play to save yourself from lynch and it misleads town.
wolframnhart wrote:@Bio
1)I think anyone, townie or scum, would act this desperate with votes on them, especially considering how close she was to being lynched at one point, and even more so with the part of her quote i pointed out saying she wanted to play as long as possible.
2)I think I touched on this on my previous post already.
3)A newbie that was told about this from a friend. She could say her friend did/did not give her tips, i would be up to us whether or not to believe her.
Fair enough. But is there a line between "desperate in not wanting to be lynch as a townie" or "too desperate that anything would be said to save themselves" because as I see it a townie that is trying to save oneself from a lynch can be desperate but in a more rational way (i.e putting up a defence and showing why their pro-town while wanting to not get lynched so that town doesn't mislynch on them) and the other way with being overly desperate which tends to be more irrational (i.e fake claiming a role/powerole, trying to put blame on someone else,etc.) The overly desperate part seems most likely to me being scummy but Fleur is also a newbie so it is hard to figure out her alignment.
dahill1 wrote:first off, i think fleur should claim her mission ASAP for a reason which i will say after she claims it.
next,@ fleur: i still don't see how killing your role makes the scum win..can you elaborate?
@wolf: i'm a guy :oops:
@bio: definitely don't think a simple townie would be this desperate to survive. and if she is a power role, she sure hasn't claimed it. also, you have to keep in mind the pre-game scum talk in which a more experienced scum could have given her some tips
I see the sense of her claiming her mission as it might clear up some things. Also I am thinking about if she was a townie wheter she be this desperate especially since she is a newbie.
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:28 pm

Post by Biohazard »

fleurdelys wrote:
I was told
to persuade you instead of not talking, and that was the only argument i could think of
???
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 4:32 pm

Post by Plum »

Biohazard wrote:I see the sense of her claiming her mission as it might clear up some things. Also I am thinking about if she was a townie wheter she be this desperate especially since she is a newbie.
I think newb town are more likely to be desperate to stay alive.

Also, I third/fourth everyone's reaction to
I was told to persuade you instead of not talking, and that was the only argument i could think of
Fleur, elaborate, please. Who told you, etc? Because that statement looks reeeaallly scumy as it stands.
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:42 pm

Post by fleurdelys »

Biohazard wrote:
Actively lurking is not going to do any good. If your town then participate within discussion and if you believe the votes on you are unjustified then present your reasons for doing so. ][/quote]
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:50 pm

Post by dahill1 »

ah i see..now please claim your mission
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:35 pm

Post by Gorrad »

I have nothing to add that hasn't been said. My vote is solid.
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:45 pm

Post by fleurdelys »

i don't see sense in revealing everything, for you'll get everything after i;'m done, aren't you? what's the point-you'll be surprised.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:03 pm

Post by Plum »

fleurdelys wrote:i don't see sense in revealing everything, for you'll get everything after i;'m done, aren't you? what's the point-you'll be surprised.
Are you sure that's true? I rescanned the rules and didn't see anything about mission-reveal on death; it seems to be left ambiguous at best. Maybe you'll ruin our surprise if you tell us, but I'm the more suspicious of you for refusing to claim your mission.
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:11 pm

Post by fleurdelys »

i don't see the fun of the game after letting everybody know who i am and what is my mission either it is pro town or bad. so, if it makes you suspicious-pity, that's fair enough, but i'd rather play it shorter then revealing everything about me and remain with nothing
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:19 pm

Post by Plum »

fleurdelys wrote:i don't see the fun of the game after letting everybody know who i am and what is my mission either it is pro town or bad. so, if it makes you suspicious-pity, that's fair enough, but i'd rather play it shorter then revealing everything about me and remain with nothing
Playing mysterious isn't earning you any credit. If you're town, revealing your mission may help us make better-informed decisions. It's not just about fun; you win with the town even if you die, assuming you're a townie. Withholding information in this case is pretty scummy, and in combination with the rest of your play has earned my vote. L-2, I think.

Vote: Fleur
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:45 pm

Post by SpyreX »

I'm really tempted to vote you but I want to ask a few questions to the town:
.Would an actual townie act this desperate with just a few votes on them?
.What do you guys think of the "I die we all lose" claim
.Do any of you think this could be a scum gambit (especially with a newbie?)
Where I come from,
the explosion is scum

A role they dont choose,
they have much more to lose

Thats why they get afraid
and stay in the shade

As for her claim,
she is to blame.

The words from her cup,
just dont add up.

Its easy to prove,
this could be a scum move.
i don't see the fun of the game after letting everybody know who i am and what is my mission either it is pro town or bad. so, if it makes you suspicious-pity, that's fair enough, but i'd rather play it shorter then revealing everything about me and remain with nothing
I think her mission is evil,
hence the upheaval.

The reason she lied,
was to try and hide.

Since in this great nation,
we need information.

Refusing to give,
no reason to live.
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I always lynch scum... sometimes they're just not mafia. :P

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