Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)

[Porkens]

Porkens (3): sirdanilot, kloud1516, Biohazard
Gorrad (3): Plum, CoheedCambria09,
Fleurdelys (1): SpyreX
SpyreX (1): fleurdelys

- me in 405
+ dahill1 in 416
+ wolf in 417 (wagoner)
+ SpyreX in 442
= 5

- Plum in 445

Nice and dramatic though, Gorrad

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Gorrad (4): CoheedCambria09, dahill1, wolframnhart, SpyreX
Porkens (3): sirdanilot, kloud1516, Biohazard
SpyreX (1): fleurdelys
sirdanilot (1): Porkens
Plum (1): Gorrad

Not voting (1): Plum

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[wolframnhart]

I think Porkens is right, i think he was at L-1 before plum unvoted him, and is now at L-2 unless i counted wrong.

[SpyreX]

Not to say the vote glamour,
would have stopped my hammer.

[fleurdelys]

Unvote

Vote: Porkens

I have been feeling less suspicious towards Gorrad recently as you can read from my posts, and last Porkens' so-called explanations do not persuade me. He is totally scummy for me, and even though I still think Spyrex can be a scum, but so can any of you. For me Porkens is the most obvious because as I said previously he does not work with the town, he's lurking he ignores the discussion.
At least, Spyrex is active

[Gorrad]

Unvote

Still firmly against Porkens lynch. The wagon on him is one case, and not a very persuasive one at that. I'm actually going to do a reread of Wolf later, I've been getting some bad vibes recently from him.

Heh, I wish I could see the scum's nighttalk tonight. Half of them will want to kill me for my role, the other half will want to keep me alive because of Bio's BS case.

Ah, and I just recalled a previous argument I hadn't responded to, the idea that the Narrator's allignment wouldn't be linked to his role. Consider- in fairy tales, not only does the monster rarely win, but there's always a moral at the end. The Narrator wants the story to be the best it can be, so he works with the town, the protagonists. A mafia role certainly doesn't fit, the Narrator wouldn't want to kill the town, it's not D&D, and a neutral role- Why would you kill that? I suppose it makes a bit of sense, but as stated above, not a neutral killing role.

Something just occured to me. I would like everyone to claim if they are a specific person (Goldilocks, Rapunzel, etc.) or an archeotype (the prince, the dragon, etc.). Don't claim your roles, just which of the two your role falls under. I want to see something.

[sirdanilot]

Sirdan isn't yummy,
a bad feeling in my tummy.

Why?

Spyrex, would you like to reply to my list of things that make porkens scum?

Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.
4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
5. He admits to be actively lurking.
6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.
7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument). Attempts to pull his attacker into his cesspool of WIFOM.
8. OMGUS votes me, the vote is based on bad logic.

w-h-a-t. Are you really seriously using this craplogic? How is her not knowing the exact quote tags even anything that resembles a sign that remotely suggest a scum tell?...Feel free to reply to point 6

Well, maybe she really doesn't know. Whining in the open that she doesn't have any idea how to use quotes could further that agenda that she is a clueless noob.

Once again you failed to convince me that your bad logic is true. That's just speculation.

Interesting bit on the WIFOM. It's a classic example of craplogic. 'Why would scum do something scummy that draws attention to themselves?'

So you are saying that; A) I intentionally pulled attention onto myself with my actions in order to double-secret fool you that I am not scum because I am TOO scummy. B) I hopped on the fleur wagon hopping for a quick lynch but then hopped off of it ONE POST LATER because my master plans "lay in ruins"? Am I reading that correctly?

This is known as the

too-scummy argument

. Generally, too scummy arguments are very bad arguments and are to be avoided, since they only generate more WIFOM. If someone does something scummy, and you say something like 'wait, hold on, no way scum would've done something like that', then every scum tell becomes a big cesspool of WIFOM.

I think you're putting WAY too much weight on the WIFOM in this situation.

Bolded statement is very scummy. Your 'defense' was WIFOM.

You are only making yourself more scummy, Porkens. You are trying to pull me into the cesspool of wifom that you are making of your opportunistic vote on Fleur. Your opportunistic vote was a big scum tell, and that's it. I am not going to be pulled in your too scummy argument.

1. So my case on you strikes you as opportunistic. Are you serious? That's just ridiculous. At the time, I was the VERY FIRST to post anything that even remotely expressed suspicion of you. [/b]

You know, you're right. I miss-remembered the chain of events. I retract the accusation that your case was opportunistic.

Think before you accuse. This more or less proves that your vote on me was OMGUS in its purest form, Porkens. Now there's no way I am going to delete that from my list.

Wait, hold on. Firstly, I did not only focus on you, I've talked about Gorrad as well. I am focusing on two people, and I am talking about/with two others. Can I be any less tunnel visioned without that it loses its effect?

Sort the thread to show only your own posts, and quote everything you said about Gorrard. Wait, I'll just do it for you...

When one of Porkens/Gorrad's alignment is confirmed at some point in the game, this page would certainly be worth looking back to. Anyway, I find porken's defense on this page very interesting, and Gorrad's as well. I think we're on to something here. It's interesting that Porkens claims to have known fleur's mission before she claimed it. And some of Gorrad's reactions are a bit iffy.

I am not assuming anything. I find it more likely that a pro-town character has to find someone than an anti-town. I just think that it's better to wait to lynch fleur until we have more information, especially since we have two people that are more suspicious, namely Porkens and Gorrad.

Nope. I think you can see from miles away that your tunnel vision on fleur is way worse than my focus on Porkens. I am open minded about the Gorrad case, and as you saw from my first post I was open minded about fleur as well, I just think that we shouldn't lynch her yet.

And I never liked meta defenses Gorrad, especially since nobody really attacked your playstyle and it's a good way to avoid real attacks.

Gorrad: First, the newbie card vs. 'fleur is newbie town'. Second, the meta defense. Third, the softclaim followed by this statement. Fourth, active lurking.

Wait, hold on. Firstly, I did not only focus on you, I've talked about Gorrad as well. I am focusing on two people, and I am talking about/with two others. Can I be any less tunnel visioned without that it loses its effect?

2. Gorrad lynch: Gives as much information as a Porkens lynch, but I find him slightly less scummy for now.

All either agreeing with what other's have said or lumping him in with me. I also noticed how you didn't adress your chainsaw defense of fleur against spyreX.

What do you mean with the 'chainsaw defense' ? Anyway, as for Gorrad, I think you missed one really important point where I called out Gorrad for making a scummy post.

Plum

, this addresses your case on me as well.

Unlike Fleur, I know what I'm talking about.

How does this make you less likely to be scum? As a matter of fact, it makes you more likely to be scum, since scum know what they're talking about!

Anyway, a quick summary.

Gorrad: First, the newbie card vs. 'fleur is newbie town'. Second, the meta defense. Third, the softclaim followed by this statement. Fourth, active lurking.

Porkens: First he was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason. Secondly, he immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role. Thirdly, he fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town and fourthly he pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.

Town, if I'm forgetting anything, feel free to add it to these two quick summaries. I think discussion is very important, but it's also important to put it in a summary once in a while so we don't lose the big picture.

I understand both of these cases. When I first saw Gorrad's post that I'm quoting right now, I was about to vote him, but to make sure I didn't lose the big picture, I decided to reconstruct and summarize the case on both players first, and I changed my mind and decided not to change my vote yet. Both are very scummy though, and if it were any useful at all I would even speculate about a Gorrad-Porkens scum pair.

@Spyrex - What do you think about the Porkens case that I summarized? Because you only reacted to the first point of it.

I have indeed been mostly focused on Porkens, but not to levels that are within Spyrex range or even within range of being called 'tunnel vision'.

Something just occured to me. I would like everyone to claim if they are a specific person (Goldilocks, Rapunzel, etc.) or an archeotype (the prince, the dragon, etc.). Don't claim your roles, just which of the two your role falls under. I want to see something.

What? That's outrageous. Massclaim on day 1? We'd only do that later in the game when we have some information.

[Biohazard]

Unvote

Still firmly against Porkens lynch. The wagon on him is one case, and not a very persuasive one at that. I'm actually going to do a reread of Wolf later, I've been getting some bad vibes recently from him.

Heh, I wish I could see the scum's nighttalk tonight. Half of them will want to kill me for my role, the other half will want to keep me alive because of Bio's BS case.

Ah, and I just recalled a previous argument I hadn't responded to, the idea that the Narrator's allignment wouldn't be linked to his role. Consider- in fairy tales, not only does the monster rarely win, but there's always a moral at the end. The Narrator wants the story to be the best it can be, so he works with the town, the protagonists. A mafia role certainly doesn't fit, the Narrator wouldn't want to kill the town, it's not D&D, and a neutral role- Why would you kill that? I suppose it makes a bit of sense, but as stated above, not a neutral killing role.

Something just occured to me. I would like everyone to claim if they are a specific person (Goldilocks, Rapunzel, etc.) or an archeotype (the prince, the dragon, etc.). Don't claim your roles, just which of the two your role falls under. I want to see something

.

Call my case BS if you want but frankly you have provided no substance in why it is faulty and all you did was
.Defend with meta
.OMGUS vote me
.Claim a role

Granted I overlooked that you were at least lynch -1 but it troubles me that already if your role is indeed true then this puts us at a bad poistion.

...And now you want a massclaim? Since you claimed your "obvious pro-town role" You find it at best motive to get everybodie's name out there. Are you aware of any consequences or you just blindly doing whatever you want to do.

[sirdanilot]

As for Gorrad's role claim, it probably means he's a third party role, meaning that he isn't cleared yet.

Y'know what? Screw it. I'm bloody well going to confirm myself and get all this out of the way so y'all can actually focus attention on scum.

Now that's a big scum tell, but obviously I'm not putting that on my list without the context of what you're claiming. Let's take a look.

I'm the Narrator.

I write the flavor.

If I die, there's not only no flavor, but allignments/roles aren't revealed on death, meaning the town don't know who they've killed and the scum don't know which town power roles they've offed. Please note the twilight rules in the first post. After lynch and after night choices are in, I'm sent who died and I write the flavor.

"-Lynching: Once there is a majority of the votes on one player (or no lynch), the game will be in twilight until I post the lynch scene. During twilight, players may still talk, but no votes or unvotes will have any effect. "
That looks like a standard twilight rule, that is used for this game and other games alike. This rule does not do anything to reinforce your claim. Nonetheless, I think you claim is very plausible and really fits the theme of the game. I highly doubt that you're scum aligned, but you are almost certainly not town either. You are a third party role.

I breadcrumbed this in the opening scene when I not only quoted 'Into the Woods' (Where the narrator gets pulled into the story) but wrote 'How the story goes is as much up to you as it is to me', as that is true: I write the story according to the town's actions. If y'all don't believe me, I can prove it when I write the night scene.

Quote the places where you said the latter, I can only find that you said 'into the woods'.

Well, there we go. You chose poorly. This town has played terribly, almost every one of you. If SpyreX is killed and flips scum, so is Porkens. I'd wish you good luck but frankly, all the luck in the world won't help you now.

Now, this is a highly informative post as you thought that you were dead at this point. Could you explain why porkens is scum when SpyreX is killed? Is the reverse true?

Now let's lynch scum. Vote: Biohazard

I don't like that you voted without reasoning, this looks like omgus.

Plum, consider- even if I'm lying about my allignment, my role is clear and confirmable, and I'm frankly shocked that you'd be willing to risk keeping me at L-1 considering the consequences should I die. Unvote, Vote: Plum. Biohazard, while I still dislike the cases he made, doesn't compare to this.

There, my interest is peaked. Congrats. More Plum votes.

So, your interest is peaked, and a couple of posts later:

Unvote

You have a very short attention span I guess?

I find your opportunistic, sudden, omgusy and non-backed-up votes right after your claim rather weird, I'd almost say suspicious. Reasoning?

[Porkens]

As for Gorrad's role claim, it probably means he's a third party role, meaning that he isn't cleared yet.

How can you assume that that is probably what it means?

[sirdanilot]

As for Gorrad's role claim, it probably means he's a third party role, meaning that he isn't cleared yet.

How can you assume that that is probably what it means?

Read the rest of the post before you comment on it.

"-Lynching: Once there is a majority of the votes on one player (or no lynch), the game will be in twilight until I post the lynch scene. During twilight, players may still talk, but no votes or unvotes will have any effect. "
That looks like a standard twilight rule, that is used for this game and other games alike. This rule does not do anything to reinforce your claim. Nonetheless, I think you claim is very plausible and really fits the theme of the game. I highly doubt that you're scum aligned, but you are almost certainly not town either. You are a third party role.

I'll take the opportunity to further explain myself. The claimed role affects the game as a whole, and flavor wise, a narrator is typically someone who doesn't participate in the story, hence a third party role.

Also Porkens, where do your suspicions lie, aside from your ridiculous OMGUS vote on me? Also, you had better reply to my list of your scum tells, the fact that Gorrad is now in the center of attention does not mean that I will ignore you. For convenience, I will post it for you below. While you're at it,

Porkens, please reply to #455, or at least the part that's directed at you.

Don't make me add something like 'He is avoiding to address the attacks that have been directed at him'.


Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.
4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
5. He admits to be actively lurking.
6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.
7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument). Attempts to pull his attacker into his cesspool of WIFOM.
8. OMGUS votes me, the vote is based on bad logic.

[SpyreX]

I like when my vote leaves,
hers also deceives.

As for my vote,
I'll explain why I tote.

His play gives suspicion,
Although I dont know his mission.

I look at the role,
and it gives a toll.

The choices are two,
lying or true?

If he is lying,
then he should be dying.

If he is the true,
what do we do?

The role as town,
makes us frown.

It acts only to harm,
That gives no charm.

If the role is bad,
the scum would be glad.

Confusing the flips,
would help them equip.

And if he is third,
living is absurd.

Now I think he's lying,
and hence for the dying.

You may ask why,
I wont deny.

Saying the flip AND text,
definitely has me perplexed.

Why tie the twain,
it makes me insane.

The mod has no fun,
if this role is done.

And the "Narrator" hmm?
Wouldn't he be a Grimm?

Now thats just the claim,
there's more to his name.

The meta declare,
a good way to scare.

Without trying to address,
his terrible mess.

Assuming hes clear,
when being nowhere near.

My vig will be shown,

but alignment still not known.

And claim en masse?
How can that pass?

If SpyreX is killed and flips scum, so is Porkens. I'd wish you good luck but frankly, all the luck in the world won't help you now.

This made me curse,
the order is reverse.

If names are switched,
no reason to twitch.

But me being killed,
putting Porkens at will?

I cant comprehend,
since I did defend.

So if Porkens is bad,
the weight I would have had.

Pushing my kill,
hurting town will.

He is the right choice,
I've given my voice.

[SpyreX]

Why?

Spyrex, would you like to reply to my list of things that make porkens scum?

Look what you're saying,
attention you are not paying.

Half I've addressed,
the way I feel best.

You keep harping on me,
for no reason I see.

Except to deflect,
from MY suspect.

Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.
3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.
4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.
5. He admits to be actively lurking.
6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.
7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument). Attempts to pull his attacker into his cesspool of WIFOM.
8. OMGUS votes me, the vote is based on bad logic.

Four I've addressed,
lets put that to rest.

As for number five,
I'll admit it doesn't jive.

She quoted fine before,
forgetting how is hard to ignore.

Considering my rhyming,
explaining 7 is tiring.

The context defines,
the use of the wine.

This is an interpretation of what I did, and doesn't represent any claims I have made about my actions. Of COURSE I'm going to say it's wrong. I voted for Fleur because she was scummy, as other had pointed out, I felt no need to regurgitate it. I unvoted because I assumed her mission and it seemed pro-town to me.

Here's a little more WIFOM for you; Why would scum jump on a wagon at L-3 in such a way that would draw attention to themselves?

The highlighted bit,
makes sense I admit.

The latter question,
has reason to mention.

If you're going to define,
so liberal the use of wine.

Everything we do,
could be drunk too.

As for the eight,
he doesn't have part straight.

That doesn't change,
some of what you say is strange.

Wait, hold on. Firstly, I did not only focus on you, I've talked about Gorrad as well. I am focusing on two people, and I am talking about/with two others. Can I be any less tunnel visioned without that it loses its effect?

Looking at your history,
this post is a mystery.

In thirteen whole posts,
only two boast.

Going to the game,
without Porkens name.

Gorrad is worse,
only one verse.

Where he is the center,
without Porkens metor.

To say the focus is two,
simply isn't true.

At best its one beast,
with two heads at the feast.

As for your squawking,
besides me who are you talking?

You haven't mentioned by name,
most of the players in the game.

With this derision,
you site my tunnel vision.

When by every measure,
yours is truly the treasure.

If porkens is evil I'm pissed
because I've had to persist

In this "case"
which has been a disgrace.

So let us be clear,
and try to adhere.

I'm not voting on this,
and for now I'll dismiss.

So stop asking me,
if I agree.

I cant understand,
why you want my hand.

When I wont dance,
with this stance.

[Porkens]

Porkens, please reply to #455, or at least the part that's directed at you.

The only question directed towards me is "what do you mean by chainsaw defense." I suggest you look it up in the wiki and re-read your own posts that include SpyreX. Prohint: You've attacked SpyreX for A) attacking fleur and B) defending me.

Adress your list? Ok.

Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.

- That's not why I did what I did. I've explained this. You don't like my explanation, I don't care.

3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.

Sure did.

4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.

yep

5. He admits to be actively lurking.

sarcasm, but fine.

6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.

Again, not what I said, twice, but ok.

7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument). Attempts to pull his attacker into his cesspool of WIFOM.

You don't what I said about that, and that's fine, but it stands.

8. OMGUS votes me, the vote is based on bad logic.

True, I retracted it.

That should sum it up.


Now,

Read the rest of the post before you comment on it.

So if I read your post more carefuly the comment would explaine itself? But wait...

I'll take the opportunity to further explain myself. The claimed role affects the game as a whole, and flavor wise, a narrator is typically someone who doesn't participate in the story, hence a third party role.

Now you re-explaine it. Well, you've just slipped into needless personal insults. And on that note; we have had our lasts words.

[Porkens]

On a different note; I agree with SpyreX about Gorrad.

1. As it's stated, his role is only a detriment to the town.
2. Outing the "no-reveal" aspect of his role is a bad move if he is town, and so it just seems like a scare tactic.
3. Whats the narrator's mission?

I think it's a balls-out scum claim.

unvote

vote: Gorrad

[CoheedCambria09]

1. As it's stated, his role is only a detriment to the town.
2. Outing the "no-reveal" aspect of his role is a bad move if he is town, and so it just seems like a scare tactic.
3. Whats the narrator's mission?

I think it's a balls-out scum claim.

QFT, I agree with these three points, and second point number 3. What is your mission Gorrad? Please explain to the best of your ability.

[dahill1]

alright regarding Gorrad's claim: from all of the games i have played/read, it has been more times that scum have had this type of role than town. the only town version of this role i can think of was DGB in iPick. the reason it is usually scum that get this role is because they can manipulate the night scene to make it seem like a certain character made the kill. for example, if a player claimed "The Dragon", the scum could write something like "Player X - scorched to death Night 1". also, Spyre made a good point about the Grimm brothers being the narrator. furthermore, this seems like too powerful of an enabler role to even exist. the game goes into no-reveal after one death? sirdanilot makes another good point about the narrator being a third-party, which could translate into neutral in the game. all that being said, my vote stays.

Porkens, please reply to #455, or at least the part that's directed at you.

The only question directed towards me is "what do you mean by chainsaw defense." I suggest you look it up in the wiki and re-read your own posts that include SpyreX. Prohint: You've attacked SpyreX for A) attacking fleur and B) defending me.

Adress your list? Ok.

Porkens:
1. He was joking around, until he saw a fleur bandwagon growing and decided to hop onto it without any reason.
2. He immediately hopped off after fleur claimed, later said that he somehow 'knew' that fleur had to find someone and also assumed it was a pro-town role.

- That's not why I did what I did. I've explained this. You don't like my explanation, I don't care.

3. He fulfilled spyrex' role without consulting the town.

Sure did.

4. He pointlessly voted dahill 'to see his reactions'.

yep

5. He admits to be actively lurking.

sarcasm, but fine.

6. Thinks that fleur not knowing the exact quote tag conventions is a scum tell.

Again, not what I said, twice, but ok.

7. Attempts to debunk point 1 with a classic crap logic argument (specifically, a 'too-scummy' argument). Attempts to pull his attacker into his cesspool of WIFOM.

You don't what I said about that, and that's fine, but it stands.

8. OMGUS votes me, the vote is based on bad logic.

True, I retracted it.

That should sum it up.


Now,

Read the rest of the post before you comment on it.

So if I read your post more carefuly the comment would explaine itself? But wait...

I'll take the opportunity to further explain myself. The claimed role affects the game as a whole, and flavor wise, a narrator is typically someone who doesn't participate in the story, hence a third party role.

Now you re-explaine it. Well, you've just slipped into needless personal insults. And on that note; we have had our lasts words.

on to porkens...this whole post is not helping you at all. if anything it's raising my suspicions for just basically saying "yeah i OMGUSd, went ahead and achieved the mission with no consultation, voted dahill for no real reason...so?"

[Porkens]

on to porkens...this whole post is not helping you at all. if anything it's raising my suspicions for just basically saying "yeah i OMGUSd, went ahead and achieved the mission with no consultation, voted dahill for no real reason...so?"

I'm not saying that those actions (especially the ones you bring up again here) couldn't be interpreted as scummy.

I was asked to respond to each point, so I did.

I think one or two of the points, as they are written on the list, are up for interpretation. The majority, however, are just true.

sirdansilot is saying that the things on this list indicate that I am scum. He is entitled to his interpretation, as are we all.

I'm not going to deny those actions or change my story on why I took them. If those actions, or my reasoning behind them, are 'crap' or look scummy to some people; that's just how it is.

So, to summarize, I'm not trying to say those actions couldn't make me look scummy. I feel like I've addressed (but not really argued) the points against me but I'm not saying "yeah, so what?!"

[dahill1]

on to porkens...this whole post is not helping you at all. if anything it's raising my suspicions for just basically saying "yeah i OMGUSd, went ahead and achieved the mission with no consultation, voted dahill for no real reason...so?"

I'm not saying that those actions (especially the ones you bring up again here) couldn't be interpreted as scummy.

I was asked to respond to each point, so I did.

I think one or two of the points, as they are written on the list, are up for interpretation. The majority, however, are just true.

sirdansilot is saying that the things on this list indicate that I am scum. He is entitled to his interpretation, as are we all.

I'm not going to deny those actions or change my story on why I took them. If those actions, or my reasoning behind them, are 'crap' or look scummy to some people; that's just how it is.

So, to summarize, I'm not trying to say those actions couldn't make me look scummy. I feel like I've addressed (but not really argued) the points against me but I'm not saying "yeah, so what?!"

that's exactly my point
you're just straight up admitting to doing all of those things, which were scummy

[Porkens]

that's exactly my point
you're just straight up admitting to doing all of those things, which were scummy

mmm. fair enough I suppose.

[Biohazard]

On a different note; I agree with SpyreX about Gorrad.

1. As it's stated, his role is only a detriment to the town.
2. Outing the "no-reveal" aspect of his role is a bad move if he is town, and so it just seems like a scare tactic.
3. Whats the narrator's mission?

I think it's a balls-out scum claim.

unvote

vote: Gorrad

Wow you just put Gorrad at lynch -1. Also you statement on "balls-out scum claim" is hypocritical and WIFOM. Reason being your saying he's doing it as scum and no town could do that. Your using the same tactics you were using in your defense in when you stated that if you were scum why would you complete SpryeX's mission. You put Gorrad at lynch -1 without second thought with just an agreed nod to SpryeX and then calling out on a scum claim.

Now my thoughts on Gorrad's claim: It's confusing me to a whole ordeal. Honestly if he's town then he's target number one during night (because of the role ability) I agree he should of withheld on the "no-reveal" but he was lynch -1 at the time so it's easy to make that kind of mistake. I don't want to vote Gorrad because he's at lynch -1 without his take on it. Also I find Porkens to be much more scummier with that rushed lynch -1 vote. Also to note his responses on his previous actions is troublesome because I'd expect better responses instead of "yep I did."

[Porkens]

Wow you just put Gorrad at lynch -1. Also you statement on "balls-out scum claim" is hypocritical and WIFOM. Reason being your saying he's doing it as scum and no town could do that.

No, a town could do this, but I don't think a real town would.

Think about it;

If you're town, and you die, the town is f---ed. Why give the scum some information? It doesn't jive for me.

Just an "agreed nod"? I don't think so. SpyreX didn't mention the mission at all.

I

did

think about this before I voted, depsite what you say. And I'm glad he's at L-1 and I hope someone hammers soon.

[dahill1]

actually

unvote

as i don't want anyone hammering him irrationally
i do think gorrad should mission claim

[Biohazard]

Wow you just put Gorrad at lynch -1. Also you statement on "balls-out scum claim" is hypocritical and WIFOM. Reason being your saying he's doing it as scum and no town could do that.

No, a town could do this, but I don't think a real town would.

Think about it;

If you're town, and you die, the town is f---ed. Why give the scum some information? It doesn't jive for me.

Just an "agreed nod"? I don't think so. SpyreX didn't mention the mission at all.

I

did

think about this before I voted, depsite what you say. And I'm glad he's at L-1 and I hope someone hammers soon.

No you misinterprented my statement "agreed nod" I directed it at you in your "agreeing with Sprye X then voting Gorrad" in your above post. Also why not give everybody the information? If he was at lynch -1 then he gets lynched anyways then if what he has stated is true then the effects will go on their way and the town won't know what happened when his alignment doesn't gets turned up. Basically it wouldn't matter if he stated it or didn't because if he didn't he had more of a chance of getting lynched and what was in his role would happen anyways. Not to say I 100% believe in his claim but just showing why it wouldn't matter.

[Porkens]

If he didn't claim that part of his RP, he wouldn't be such a useful tool for scum, whether he's town or not.

[Biohazard]

Also:

I

did

think about this before I voted, depsite what you say. And I'm glad he's at L-1 and I hope someone hammers soon.

Basically stating "lets go go go! Hammer him!" Smells of oppurtunitisic pushing

without even waiting for him to post.