Mini 690 - Grimmmafia (Game over, the flavor returns...)

[Biohazard]

I'm not assuming Porkens is town, but a WIFOM case is simply not enough for me to vote him. And please, read through my other games before calling this out as anti-town behavior on my part. If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me. Also, I stated previously that points on me that you have made were BS (215). I jump on things that are scummy and defend myself when pressed. That's how I play the game, and my record supports that. This is far from the first time this 'case' has been made against me.

Hmm what this. Your not assuming Porkens is town?

anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX,

both of whom I find protown

You contradict yourself way too much Gorrad. I find your changing poistion on statements to just to fit questions on you. Also if your playstyle is to just lurk through discussion and not participate then jump on whatever you find interseting then becoming active when pressured then you seriously need to change your playstyle. Like I said before all input from people in discussion helps and just not participating is going to hinder discussion. I think if you look at it at another perspective you could see why someone might consider this anti-town.

Mod edit
Official Votecount:
Porkens (4): sirdanilot, dahill1, kloud1516, Biohazard
Gorrad (2): Plum, CoheedCambria09
Fleurdelys (1): SpyreX
dahill1 (1): Porkens
SpyreX (1): fleurdelys

Not voting (2): wolframnhart, Gorrad

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

[fleurdelys]

maybe it is time to change technique;)

[Gorrad]

I'm not assuming Porkens is town, but a WIFOM case is simply not enough for me to vote him. And please, read through my other games before calling this out as anti-town behavior on my part. If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me. Also, I stated previously that points on me that you have made were BS (215). I jump on things that are scummy and defend myself when pressed. That's how I play the game, and my record supports that. This is far from the first time this 'case' has been made against me.

Hmm what this. Your not assuming Porkens is town?

anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX,

both of whom I find protown

You contradict yourself way too much Gorrad. I find your changing poistion on statements to just to fit questions on you. Also if your playstyle is to just lurk through discussion and not participate then jump on whatever you find interseting then becoming active when pressured then you seriously need to change your playstyle. Like I said before all input from people in discussion helps and just not participating is going to hinder discussion. I think if you look at it at another perspective you could see why someone might consider this anti-town.

Finding someone to be protown is far from assuming them to be town. Yes, I think it's more likely that he's town then scum, but that doesn't mean I'm assuming a thing. And if you think all discussion helps, you've clearly never played a game with a member of TA.

The way my mind works is...complicated. A lot of how my brain works matches with ADD: I'm easily distracted, tend to focus on only things that interest me, am disorganized, etc. On the other hand, I was raised to be an engineer by my mother's side of the family, so I have extreme focus. The result is that my mind tends to wander until it picks up on something interesting, which it then focusses on, excluding almost all else. I admit, it may not be the ideal way to play mafia, but when I pick up a scent I'm usually right.

In other words, dis my playstyle all you want. It's not something I have any control of- believe me, I've tried. That won't stop me from finding scum in my own way.

[CoheedCambria09]

If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me.

To me this just screams WIFOM. It may be true, I havent read any of your other games, but if it is you have the ability to exploit it by saying that it is how you play and then actually doing the opposite. If you put in more input then theres a higher chance things will involve you actively.

[Gorrad]

An example of that is in Hasdgfas' Polygamist Mafia.

[wolframnhart]

maybe it is time to change technique;)

You were about to do the same thing Fleur, when you were about to be quiet with all the votes on you.

[Porkens]

I just put a vote out there on Dahil1 do see what your reactions would be.

unvote

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

Give it time. When someone or something interests me, I'll pursue it like there's no tomorrow until I'm proven wrong. Read Sci-Fi/Fantasy Movie Mafia if you don't believe me.

That's how I play the game, and my record supports that.

In other words, dis my playstyle all you want. It's not something I have any control of- believe me, I've tried. That won't stop me from finding scum in my own way.

An example of that is in Hasdgfas' Polygamist Mafia.

/meta

I don't think the case against you held any water, but responding to it with 5 posts of "it's my play-style" is a gigantic red flag to me.

vote: Gorrad

[Gorrad]

I kinda bloody well supported that it WAS, in fact, my playstyle. It's like Flameaxe posting once per two weeks- he does it regardless of allignment, so it's not worth a vote.

[SpyreX]

It's no vendetta,
I'm not liking meta

However demur,
I'd like to see why not fleur.

To me it still reads,
Like a set of scum deeds.

And now I would fuss
at the use of "us"

Subtly implying,
that she is not lying

But its rampant abuse,
requires a noose.

[dahill1]

Finding someone to be protown is far from assuming them to be town.

this whole paragraph is just ..i can't even imagine how you could attempt to explain this

Yes, I think it's more likely that he's town then scum, but that doesn't mean I'm assuming a thing.

what is this supposed to mean? statistically he's more likely to be town? because if it was any other scenario then yes, it would be an assumption on your part.

I just put a vote out there on Dahil1 do see what your reactions would be.

boy, do i love when people do this
just from my experience, the only people that tend to say that are scum (and no i can't cite any specific games because i don't remember the exact ones). some questions porkens, what kind of reactions did you expect to receive? what would you do if you received said reactions? any reason you chose me, or was it random?

unvote

Big FoS: Gorrad

probably will turn into a vote but i'm waiting until i see the vote count first. the vote is mainly due to his contradiction. specifically,

Yes, I think it's more likely that he's town then scum, but that doesn't mean I'm assuming a thing.

and

Finding someone to be protown is far from assuming them to be town.

. also, as porkens said, his main defense just being "it's my meta!". as much as i dislike that porkens is on this wagon, the case is strong. i still suspect some degree of bussing is possibly occuring though.

[kloud1516]

First:

I think the mission was obvious. Yeah that's what I'm telling you. That's why I unvoted.

How was the mission obvious? As a Prince there could be tons of different missions to be given out, it's not like "Oh Prince role, then he MUST be after Cinderella" it could be "Oh hes after rapunzel" or snow white, sleeping beauty etc.

How was the mission obvious? As a Prince there could be tons of different missions to be given out, it's not like "Oh Prince role, then he MUST be after Cinderella" it could be "Oh hes after rapunzel" or snow white, sleeping beauty etc.

QFT
there is no way he could have just known it was Cinderella

Porkens' quote here makes me very comfortable with my vote. I am in agreement with wolf and dahill here, as there are many possible missions for a character named "Prince Charming" to have when considering the tales of the Brothers Grimm. Sure, the Prince could serve the role he did in Cinderella, but he could also be trying to protect/save the princess in question, as was the case in both Rapunzel and Snow White.

Well, it was pretty obvious to me that someone who claimed "prince charming" would also claim a mission "find a/the princess."

To say that the claim made her mission obvious does not sit well with me, for it wasn't obvious. There were many different Prince Charmings in the Grimm's tales if I am not mistaken. The way in which you immediately conclude, even without Fleur claiming her mission, that she would be searching for a princess alarms me.

Secondly:

The card she was using was not as an excuse yet, but rather the whole 'I assume it's day' right after the day post, etc. Obvious newbie play in a non-newbie game. That just screamed to me that she was trying to play us for saps.

Did you check and see that she joined the site four days before the game started and consider that? These following are all Gorrad quotes (I'm being ever so slightly lazy and not putting his name in the code):

Further:

I dislike the newbie card. I'm not sure I've ever seen it played by town. More Fleur votes!

Next:

See above post. You're using the newbie card- you're using it BIG TIME. I don't trust it.

Then:

Also, when I said Fleur was using the newbie card, she WAS. I stand by that.

Finally:

Also, I misphrased- there, she was acting in a way that made me think she was using the newbie card. If I was in that situation again, I would think so again. However, her later actions made it clear it was not the card, but rather the fact that she is a newb.

The key changing point was the mission claim, and there were a good deal of posts between my last two. Also, I misphrased- there, she was acting in a way that made me think she was using the newbie card. If I was in that situation again, I would think so again. However, her later actions made it clear it was not the card, but rather the fact that she is a newb.

The card she was using was not as an excuse yet, but rather the whole 'I assume it's day' right after the day post, etc. Obvious newbie play in a non-newbie game. That just screamed to me that she was trying to play us for saps.

I can't find this explanation credible. The reason because as Plum pointed you stand by your newbie card accusation even if your last post then suddenly state you misphrased it. I'm seeing that when pressured with my previous post you change your statement into saying it was a "misphrasing of words" instead of standing by your oringal statement. I think your just changing your words to slide out of suspicion and I don't like. As stated in Plum's post you stated you "stand by the newbie card statement" then when I question it it suddenly becomes "I meant to say I thought she was using the newbie card until later" hence why I can't find your explanation credible.

QFT. There are indeed notable inconsistencies between your earlier arguments against Fleur and your opinions of her by this point.

Thirdly:

Why would "The Prince"
somehow convince?

it was the mission that convinced me combined with her role name in relation to the mission.

i don't think she could have come up with that by herself

In this game (actually in all my theme games) the scum have safeclaims. Therefore, massclaiming is allowed but not recommended for town.

If she is scum, then she wouldn't have necessarily needed to make it up by herself.

Fourthly:

I found it weird as well, and i don't like the fact that Porkens voted without consulting anyone.
So i still keep my vote for him-this time for the reason

As for consulting with the rest of you; Some of you had made your stances clear. Other's hadn't said anything about it. I decided it would be in the best interest of the town if I just went ahead and did it and, frankly, I don't care if the rest of you agree or not.

If you are indeed town, then this doesn't do anything to convince me of it. Functioning/performing actions without consulting the group was neither very smart nor pro-town, as we still had no indication as to whether or not it was a good idea to allow Spyre to achieve his mission. Doing so without any indication could have proved disastrous, and such recklessness will only serve as a detriment to the town down the road in my opinion. Granted, doing so got us a vig, but the fact that you did not even announce that you were going to complete the mission makes me weary of you.

More to come in a little bit.

[Gorrad]

In this game (actually in all my theme games) the scum have safeclaims. Therefore, massclaiming is allowed but not recommended for town.

If she is scum, then she wouldn't have necessarily needed to make it up by herself.

What do y'all think the odds are of the mod including fake mission claims?

[SpyreX]

What do y'all think the odds are of the mod including fake mission claims?

Considering flavor,
the odds are in favor.

Gorrad is iffy,
Porkens is spiffy.

Kloud isn't dumb,
neither is Plum.

Still no one loose,
why Fleur has no noose.

[fleurdelys]

maybe it is time to change technique;)

You were about to do the same thing Fleur, when you were about to be quiet with all the votes on you.

I was about to, but I never did.
I'm looking at Gorrad's posts now and yes, i agree-they look scummy even if it is his way of playing the game. Although, Porkens and SpyreX are still more scummy in my eyes; however, i would like to see some more from Gorrad. I just don't understand the reaction-instead of get involved in the game, you try to find good explanations for being purely scummy. i think town should work with each other against mafia-and this is what game is about. if you are lurking, you're not helping finding mafia which is totally against town's mission. Porkens does not work with us either, because he does not consult decision with us.

[/b]

[CoheedCambria09]

Ok, so since my last post Gorrad has continualy defended his actions during this games as his "playstyle". Its not a feasable tactic because its very easy to lie about something like that. I'm liking where my vote is right now.

Second, Spyrex, is there anyone else you think could be the lynch today other than Fleur. You've been very persistant about the case today, but if her lynch is not possible (it still may be), who else do you think would be a suitable candidate?

[Biohazard]

I'm not assuming Porkens is town, but a WIFOM case is simply not enough for me to vote him. And please, read through my other games before calling this out as anti-town behavior on my part. If anything, I'm more active as scum because more things are of a direct interest to me. Also, I stated previously that points on me that you have made were BS (215). I jump on things that are scummy and defend myself when pressed. That's how I play the game, and my record supports that. This is far from the first time this 'case' has been made against me.

Hmm what this. Your not assuming Porkens is town?

anything that could change someone's mind on Porkens or SpyreX,

both of whom I find protown

You contradict yourself way too much Gorrad. I find your changing poistion on statements to just to fit questions on you. Also if your playstyle is to just lurk through discussion and not participate then jump on whatever you find interseting then becoming active when pressured then you seriously need to change your playstyle. Like I said before all input from people in discussion helps and just not participating is going to hinder discussion. I think if you look at it at another perspective you could see why someone might consider this anti-town.

Finding someone to be protown is far from assuming them to be town. Yes, I think it's more likely that he's town then scum, but that doesn't mean I'm assuming a thing. And if you think all discussion helps, you've clearly never played a game with a member of TA.

The way my mind works is...complicated. A lot of how my brain works matches with ADD: I'm easily distracted, tend to focus on only things that interest me, am disorganized, etc. On the other hand, I was raised to be an engineer by my mother's side of the family, so I have extreme focus. The result is that my mind tends to wander until it picks up on something interesting, which it then focusses on, excluding almost all else. I admit, it may not be the ideal way to play mafia, but when I pick up a scent I'm usually right.

In other words, dis my playstyle all you want. It's not something I have any control of- believe me, I've tried. That won't stop me from finding scum in my own way.

I don't understand your first post. Finding a person to be pro-town is far from assuming them to town? I'd think that if a person finds a player pro-town then they could assume the player to be town because if all the players found people to be pro-town but had doubts of assuming them town then it would affect the way to scumhunt because they can't lock on in any people if everybody they see isn't town but acts protown. Also wheter I think all discussion helps, yes I do. I'm not sure what TA is but I think at the moment it's irrelivant to the current game at hand. If you believe all discussion doesn't help then state your reasons instead of just trying to fit it to your liking so you can defend your non-participation in discussion.

As for your playstyle I'm not going to bother meta not because I'm ignorantly going to disregard whatever you say but I rather not compare this game to other games because it usually misleads people into thinking a person's alignment would be the same as the meta game and they must be town or scum because of the playstyles they incoporate in games. If your telling the truth about your playstyle then it's not going to help discussion or town much because if you just lurk through discussion and only become active when pressured it certianly isn't going to help anybody on your part and everybody elses part.

I just put a vote out there on Dahil1 do see what your reactions would be.

unvote

Read through my games. Unless I have a specific person/case I'm pursuing, I don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute. You call it 'active lurking', I call it not riddling the game with the unneeded fluff that I'd spout if I posted more.

Give it time. When someone or something interests me, I'll pursue it like there's no tomorrow until I'm proven wrong. Read Sci-Fi/Fantasy Movie Mafia if you don't believe me.

That's how I play the game, and my record supports that.

In other words, dis my playstyle all you want. It's not something I have any control of- believe me, I've tried. That won't stop me from finding scum in my own way.

An example of that is in Hasdgfas' Polygamist Mafia.

/meta

I don't think the case against you held any water, but responding to it with 5 posts of "it's my play-style" is a gigantic red flag to me.

vote: Gorrad

Did anybody catch this? After not even responding to the post I directed at him he unvotes his other vote on Dahill1 saying it was for reactions then jumps onto the Gorrad bandwagon when suspicion gets turned on Gorrad. Yeah I am defiantly liking my vote right now.

[dahill1]

Did anybody catch this? After not even responding to the post I directed at him he unvotes his other vote on Dahill1 saying it was for reactions then jumps onto the Gorrad bandwagon when suspicion gets turned on Gorrad. Yeah I am defiantly liking my vote right now.

both cases are very strong
as i said before, i highly suspect that both of them could be scum

[SpyreX]

Ok, so since my last post Gorrad has continualy defended his actions during this games as his "playstyle". Its not a feasable tactic because its very easy to lie about something like that. I'm liking where my vote is right now.

Second, Spyrex, is there anyone else you think could be the lynch today other than Fleur. You've been very persistant about the case today, but if her lynch is not possible (it still may be), who else do you think would be a suitable candidate?

Meta mentions,
makes Gorrad question.

We can't pretend,
that meta defends.

The vote that decends,
still probably not Porkens.

I've still seen no reason,
that fleur isn't that season.

Lying multiple times,
isn't a crime?

All of her actions,
put me in traction.

It's a disgrace,
no one else sees her case.

[fleurdelys]

When did I lie, Spyrex? If you know say that I claimed my that if i am killed everybody's killed, then please, read my posts about it again, i always used "what if".
Porkens seems really scummy now, but spyrex is just so annoying in not focusing on anything else but lynching me. However, I am seriously thinking now about changing my vote to porkens again, as for Gorrad, yes, he is definitely scummy, but Porkens made too many mistakes

[Biohazard]

When did I lie, Spyrex? If you know say that I claimed my that if i am killed everybody's killed, then please, read my posts about it again, i always used "what if".
Porkens seems really scummy now, but spyrex is just so annoying in not focusing on anything else but lynching me. However, I am seriously thinking now about changing my vote to porkens again, as for Gorrad, yes, he is definitely scummy, but Porkens made too many mistakes

Fos:Fleur

like I haven't already. Seriously if your going to jump onto two of the biggest bandwagons then present a case with your own reasons instead of just nodding your head and saying he's scummy then prepare to vote him. Your just following whatever bandwagon is out there without stating any reasoning.

[SpyreX]

i can only say that you should save me. i don't know if i can reveal my role, i don't think i can.; however, it is

highly important

for the townies but important for scums as well. this is why you should give me a chance

i am important for scum

, because i am an important player in the game-as i said, what if they kill me and this means they win the whole game? even if not, as a member of town i would hate being killed as an important member-for town's sake
that's why i felt uncomfortable with revealing my character earlier, and asked for the doctor to take care of me during ni

I don't think he does put words in my mouth, quite a few times i said

that i never claimed that my role is that important,

i said i was only asking you what if-look at my posts just before claiming and after claiming my role

I'd like to see you try,
to say thats no lie.

Under some attack,
you pedaled back.

The "what if" was said twice,
Town take my advice

This one is a cinch,
and deserves this lynch.

[fleurdelys]

I'm not following any badwagon, I have voted for Spyrex, not Porkens or Gorrad, although it is hard not to admit that they're being scummy.
I still think the role of Prince is important, and for townies-because it is pro-town, and as for scums, because i have a mission that they might destroy.
Of course, i am thinking strongly about whom i voting on, because as I said previously, I have stated few pages ago that for me Porkens was scummy and actually I voted on him. Then, Gorrad has a good explanation, however, he does not want to change his playstyle even though it is hard to admit he is pro-town if he does not make pro-town moves. If I remain with Spyrex vote, you may think i am just angry at him because he keeps lynching me and trying to redirect all your attention on me. but, i have stated some other arguments as well which for me make him look scummy.
i don't see me just claiming what you say-of course, sometimes i agree with you, but isn't t just paranoid to make somebody fos just because you have good arguments with which it's hard not to agree?
I haven't unvoted spyrex, so don't judge me that early

[Plum]

Thanks for the in-depth post on Fleur, SpyreX. While for the past while or so I've been thinking that she seems more likely newb town than newb scum, that's been a bit more on the gut level. I still think so, but feel less certain about it. It may be that my mentality is colored by a game I'm playing in which a player did a very many scummy and/or newb-scum-ish things, and, replacing in, I thought 'newbies can always exceed your expectations'; he did turn out to be town. While that does not by any means mean that Fleur is definitely town, well, I'm keeping in mind that she is new and could be exceeding our wildest expctations. But your case is ver good; she has done scummy things since her role and mission claim, and I don't feel comfortable letting that stuff go just because I think it's possible she's making newb-town mistakes. Basically, though, what I need right now is a good, solid, and logical refutation by Fleur on the case you made on her. Especially I dislike the claims that you called her stupid and that Porkens considered you (SpyreX) pro-town because you didn't vote for him; both of these seem to be clearly untrue. She seems to be voting a claimed vig on what seems to be only somewhat more substantial than an OMGUS.

FOS:Fleur

.

So, Fleur, please address SpyreX's case, if you will. And the lies I pointed out. There they are.

Gorrad: If the town's persuing cases that don't interest you or you don't find strong enough to argue for, tell us why. Doesn't have to be a long post just something like 'the town seems to be focusing on this case on player X, and I don't think it's relevent because Y, and instead I think we should hear more about situation Z, which I think might have more potential'. Doesn't have to be long or pointless, just something short and to the point a bit more often that'll help the town find scum. I don't like your lack of participation and your argument that it's your meta. In any case, I'm still unconvinced by your defense on your newb-card statements earlier, and continuously trying to convince us your lurking is just a playstyle thing doesn't make me any happier about it.

Porkens: Frankly, the thing you've done that I think is scummiest is the vote on Dahill 'for reactions'. What sort of reactions were you looking for? Generally, 'for reactions' =/= a legit reason for out-of-the-blue votes. You've done some other things which are questionable, as I and others have pointed out. Minor

FOS: Porkens

there.

[fleurdelys]

I don't think the posts Spyrex is quoting were written by me since I have claimed- as I remember they were written before I have claimed my role and mission, so Plum-what scummy things have I done since claiming my role and mission?
For me, if I ask a question, and someone says something like 'you don't think so you don't know' then, i consider it offending. i'm sorry
also, i didn't (HONESTLY) know what claiming role is, and if it is legal in this game, so i was in the quoted posts trying to give you some sort of clues. then, after someone said that i should tell what my role is, i claimed my role

[Plum]

You most certainly wrote certain important of the posts SpyreX was quoting after you claimed:

Porkens, you weren't that creative either throughout the games, and I might even say that for me your reasons for say spyrex name are unconvincing; especially second one-

if he doesn't vote for you, he must be pro-town? what?

You also stated that SpyreX called you stupid in response to your arguments was also clearly untrue; though the quoted bit is my primary concern. In any case, it doesn't matter whether you posted something before you claimed or not; it can still be scummy and it can still be legitimately questioned. I'd also like a clear and logical response to SpyreX's case on you, like the explaination you provided in post #193 about some of your actions before your claim.