White flag #824 game over

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I wanna try something a bit different this game. During the first couple days of D1, I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town, working with them to try and form reads, push scum, and solve the game. I think in a setup like this, a tactic like what I’m suggesting could bear some tasty fruit.

I already have a my two picks kinda set in my head and I’d rather people make selections before interactions start to really get going, so to start us off I’m picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like if it’s done early then the implied follow-up of thinking whether you want to stick to your TRs you’ve chosen will be more poignant

[Gamma Emerald]

If someone sticks to a questionable TR it’s probably a partner tell

[Gamma Emerald]

ok boomer
Could you do my thing before you go?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m kinda trying to wheel out an old tactic I’ve seen before but with a tool-up and fresh coat of paint

Also while I’m not exactly happy with what seems to be getting voted for trying to break the mold, Klick’s post is pretty much in the spirit of my exercise

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I wanna try something a bit different this game. During the first couple days of D1, I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town, working with them to try and form reads, push scum, and solve the game. I think in a setup like this, a tactic like what I’m suggesting could bear some tasty fruit.

I already have a my two picks kinda set in my head and I’d rather people make selections before interactions start to really get going, so to start us off I’m picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT.

how would you feel about every player in the game picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT?

Maybe a little weird but in essence that means you have 2 ICs for Day 1, it’s just that one or both might be scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't be bothered to explain why but you can just take my word for it

Not doing this unless you do something to justify me trusting you

[Gamma Emerald]

Seems like my faith was at least 50% warranted

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, I'm the co/backup mod of this game! If you have a pressing issue that requires resolving in a timely manner and cyrus isn't around, or you just need me for whatever reason in relation to this game, please do not hesitate to contact me on here or on Discord! Have a good game all~

I tried to iron my trousers and burnt a hole in them, now I have nothing to wear for work tomorrow, please advise

How big a hole, and what material were they?

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't be bothered to explain why but you can just take my word for it

Not doing this unless you do something to justify me trusting you

I mean, just read his posts

you might be right but I’m still not taking your word on just about anything yet

NM likely town imo

I feel like you should be the

least

likely person other than me to TR what NM is doing

[Gamma Emerald]

Pooky too ig but since I’m trusting your voice rn I want to make it clear I think you’re walking into a pitfall you’ve already been in

[Gamma Emerald]

Playing like you did in Mini 2170

[Gamma Emerald]

Playing like you did in Mini 2170

No I'm playing differently this game

Yeah, by diving directly into the scummiest part of your play that game

[Gamma Emerald]

Playing like you did in Mini 2170

I was right about NM that game

Okay. Then while you’re not falling into the same pitfall you should still be wary of NM playing like this.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know I forget every game the instant it ends

Not sure if I believe this but it’s not a counterpoint to what I’m saying

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool, why should I care?

[Gamma Emerald]

Flea would you like to participate in my exercise?

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool, why should I care?

Because it's your point that you're trying to get across

I’m not trying to get it across to you lol

[Gamma Emerald]

i also think gamma opener is p wack even if it's nai

What’s your problem with it eh?

[Gamma Emerald]

I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town

If someone sticks to a questionable TR it’s probably a partner tell

how quickly you contradict yourself is pretty weird, these two statements cannot exist together

Sticking to a questionable TR because you have to as part of the wackstrat could never be a partner tell.

You literally skipped the post with the connection you absolute baboon

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like if it’s done early then the implied follow-up of thinking whether you want to stick to your TRs you’ve chosen will be more poignant

The exercise only runs until EoD1, at which point you determine whether you want to stick with the reads you picked out or flip to scumreading one or both of them
Even in the posts you quoted that was kinda evident but you completely refused to acknowledge the post that cut the legs off the push you were trying to make
VOTE: bugspray
This kinda reminds me of how you played in the game we were scum together in but in general you didn’t even try to legitimately parse what I was saying and instead tried to hop on the anti-Gamma sentiment bandwagon

[Gamma Emerald]

how
The thing they were looking for was there and they skipped it for god-knows-why
Unless an actual explanation can be provided I’m inclined to be very doubtful of bugspray’s motivations

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess that’s true but again, do the math, it’s pretty obvious D2 is when that re-evaluating should happen

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought about it a little and I think I can allow myself to TR NM for now
I just hope his play has some real dimensionality to it going forward

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought about it a little and I think I can allow myself to TR NM for now
I just hope his play has some real dimensionality to it going forward

Elaborate on what you thought about a little?

The comparison between this game and Mini 2170
The play isn’t exactly the same, as was said earlier, I really just saw red when NM started looking like he was trying to substitute a forced tunnel for actual content again
When I thought about it I realized it was probably too early to declare that the case, and a few of his other posts kinda town ping me

[Gamma Emerald]

goats seems like town

[Gamma Emerald]

I liked Gamma's entrance, it was good.

:/
you liked my entrance but didn't think to interact with it?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay
would you like to participate atp or are you gonna opt out
I'd rather everyone do it but that seems very unlikely

[Gamma Emerald]

But why would scum!Datisi go through with posting that regardless afterwards once he confirmed it wasn't indicative and I was consistent across the two games?

...why not? He'd just be doing it to emulate a town thought process. But etc.

I think dwlee's reaction to the votes on him is probably townish. It feels too willing to be in the limelight to be scum. I like Infinity's play so far though I'm definitely biased because she called me town when I was getting annoyed at the votes on me. Gamma's place in the game feels exactly like some distant memory of a game or two, years ago, where he was really contentious and I was hard townreading him and he was town.

the game I pulled my exercise from was probably from around that time if you mean what I think you do (the game I'm guessing you're referring to rn is Mini 1838)

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm skeptical of the implo scumreads because I initially TRed implo in a recent coalition game and ended up getting talked out of it even though I was right, and I also think he's being town in this game so I want to stick to my guns here

[Gamma Emerald]

Town As Fuck: GuiltyLion, Not Mafia, Gamma Emerald

the "plan" just involves picking two townreads to stick to for the duration of D1
I guess I can take a set of 3 as well honestly, so I'll just jot this down as your picks

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah this doesn't feel like his scumrange
I can link an implo scumgame if you like, it's the one that I pretty much use as my template to read him

[Gamma Emerald]

also pooky has a point re: the coalition game, because most people scumread two town but we still managed to exclude the two actual scum from the coalition

[Gamma Emerald]

bruh moment

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd disagree but I'll try to keep it down, your rules are yours

[Gamma Emerald]

yikes

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I know what dwlee means but I'll let him say it first

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk if GL is scum but goats definitely feels like town

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma wants to actually do something with his opening and use it to solve. It wasn't just the entrance specifically but also how he built off of it and showed how he wanted to use it to solve in a genuine way

What solving did Gamma do with his opening exercise? I didn't see him make many reads off it, he moved on really quick.

Gamma talks about how the info gleaned from it can be used later for associatives and to get people a core group to discuss things with.

Yeah this was what I figured would be said
The solving aspect of my exercise comes from those evaluations D2 and whether they make sense
There’s also how people react to the exercise itself but I’m not gonna read into those until N1 comes, to avoid tainting it somehow

[Gamma Emerald]

Read on.

[Gamma Emerald]

I pretty much see it rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Is the case caught for wrong reasons or something else?

That’s how I feel GL’s play rn looks

[Gamma Emerald]

has scum!him tricked you before? if you're scumreading him incorrectly you're probably just expecting too much from his scumgame. though when he's town he doesn't always have the most energy so i'm waiting for him to post a bit more here

this matches what I've seen of him

[Gamma Emerald]

@implosion + MURDERCAT: aside from the people who are clearly against it and Not_Mafia, y’all are the only two to not do my thing yet. Would you like to pick some people or are you opting out?

[Gamma Emerald]

why is klick town?

Are you scumreading Klick rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

goats
bugspray

Why aren’t these your top two?

[Gamma Emerald]

bugspray and Pooky have both visited the site elsewhere but not here since the whole goats/GL thing, in a vacuum I find that slightly suspicious

btw since when are this kind of reads allowed?

It happens, some people don’t like it but it happens
The validity is mixed

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh Flea has kinda been in my blind spot so far this game

[Gamma Emerald]

@implosion + MURDERCAT: aside from the people who are clearly against it and Not_Mafia, y’all are the only two to not do my thing yet. Would you like to pick some people or are you opting out?

I thought it was implicit I was choosing you and infinity

okey

[Gamma Emerald]

[sarcasm] klick is lockscum because he has a townread on me. town!klick has literally never read me correctly, he must know i'm town. [/sarcasm]

Funnily enough I feel like the way Klick has been interacting with me has been pretty towny

[Gamma Emerald]

bugspray and Pooky have both visited the site elsewhere but not here since the whole goats/GL thing, in a vacuum I find that slightly suspicious

btw since when are this kind of reads allowed?

It happens, some people don’t like it but it happens
The validity is mixed

on the usual site i play on you'd get a warning from the mods at least

i guess this is the wild west

My homesite also frowns upon it

[Gamma Emerald]

Not gonna board the murdercat wagon but also don’t think GL feels right
I feel like he believes in what he’s saying

[Gamma Emerald]

What game do you think I'm similar to rn infinity?

Answer: open draft where I didn't play anything like this

So you're wrong

what
why even ask?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: bugspray
In the prior scumgame I saw from bugspray he had similar play D1 to how he’s playing here, at least until I pushed him in order to light a fire under his behind

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m for bugspray because I’m set in not trying to eliminate MCat today

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry

[Gamma Emerald]

why are all of your townreads tone and "they did something similar to a previous town game"

What else should I use 15 pages in?

There’s been a few substantial pushes
What do you think of them?

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

484 contains enough solving content that there's no way I'd eliminate him today even aside from my position in the exercise

[Gamma Emerald]

i dont even understand this bugspray wagon

what has bugspray even done in this game

Nothing, which is scummy in their case
Until I pushed him as his buddy in mini 2185, he was very ineffectual

[Gamma Emerald]

Shit I fucked up twice for getting it right once

[Gamma Emerald]

hrmpvh.

I'm very interested in the juxtaposition of Infinity "this is very obviously MC's town meta" 324 and PookyThe "this is very obviously not MC's town meta" MagicalBear.

I want to proxy my read on him to other people but it's difficult when not all other players in the game agree on what his alignment is.

For me Murdercat’s play can go either way, I’d need to wait and see, I’ve seen Murdercat have a slow start as town before

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm very interested in the juxtaposition of Infinity "this is very obviously MC's town meta" 324 and PookyThe "this is very obviously not MC's town meta" MagicalBear.

Could it be ... one is scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

i remember muffins once played a game where he responded to literally every single post in the thread, votecounts and his own posts when he caught up to them included. always thought that was hilarious – not sure i'd have the energy to do it myself though, at least in a way that ended up slightly comedic like his was rather than just being annoying (which, to be fair, his probably still was).

I think I was in that one? I remember seeing someone do that in a game once

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
NSG is looking at least alright at a glance

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm gonna look at some MURDERCAT scum games in between spells of work today to see what his top scum performance can look like cause I'm worried the Infinity examples might be closer to his worst rather than his average/best

I also dislike the argument on this page of "why would I not want a bugs hammer as scum" on first pass, feels WIFOMy

In my experience MURDERCAT!scum tends to be decent at best

[Gamma Emerald]

Is it just me or does Flea feel low-key scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, I guess it’s not “just me” because a few others have fae at the bottom of their readlists
What I’m saying is I don’t TR Flea but I also don’t see how some people are as confident in fae being scum as they are

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah tbh the thoughts expressed in the catch-up don’t make sense with where I’m placed either, all I remember was calling my post @ goats a towntell

@nsg

as a general question, why are you paranoid of me/implo/GL/goats? Tbh I think implo should be obvtown to you because the one scumgame I remember from him was a game you modded and that was night-and-day from here (and in a recent completed game implo has asserted that his scum play still needs work, to paraphrase)

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm gonna look at some MURDERCAT scum games in between spells of work today to see what his top scum performance can look like cause I'm worried the Infinity examples might be closer to his worst rather than his average/best

I also dislike the argument on this page of "why would I not want a bugs hammer as scum" on first pass, feels WIFOMy

It's this one: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85633

Yeah that’s probably the best scumgame I saw from you
The only other contender being Draft Mafia (imo it still counts despite being a hydra game)

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d rather explore the topic of Flea before having a MURDERCAT/dwlee thunderdome

[Gamma Emerald]

he was kind of flat in draft mafia too and pretended like he wasnt actually playing

p sure infinity and noraa did like 99% of the posting while murdercat just hid in a tree

Yeah I kinda remembered that being sorta the case

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think goats is a hydra?

[Gamma Emerald]

Infinity what’s your feeling on Flea rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

murder, you are gonna have to try to explain your pooky read if you want people to listen to you

pedit: i'm gonna be honest i have no idea how to read flea but i will try if fae posts more

I’m kinda lost because I feel like in the past Flea’s been an easy read, but this game I just get a weak scum vibe from fae

[Gamma Emerald]

I could elim dwlee too

when your other scumread is thunderdoming dwlee?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah tbh the thoughts expressed in the catch-up don’t make sense with where I’m placed either, all I remember was calling my post @ goats a towntell

@nsg

as a general question, why are you paranoid of me/implo/GL/goats? Tbh I think implo should be obvtown to you because the one scumgame I remember from him was a game you modded and that was night-and-day from here (and in a recent completed game implo has asserted that his scum play still needs work, to paraphrase)

Reposting this

[Gamma Emerald]

I could elim dwlee too

are there people you wouldn't eliminate lol

Anyone not named implosion, MURDERCAT or dwlee. Willing to give nsg a reprieve for now. But I would hammer anyone

I really think this scumteam doesn’t make any sense
Why does murdercat just sink a member of their team like this out of nowhere?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: northsidegal
I don’t feel entirely comfortable with this thunderdome idea so I’m going back here (plus she still needs to answer my question)

[Gamma Emerald]

oh, missed this.

Yeah tbh the thoughts expressed in the catch-up don’t make sense with where I’m placed either, all I remember was calling my post @ goats a towntell

@nsg

as a general question, why are you paranoid of me/implo/GL/goats? Tbh I think implo should be obvtown to you because the one scumgame I remember from him was a game you modded and that was night-and-day from here (and in a recent completed game implo has asserted that his scum play still needs work, to paraphrase)

you i can't read. i wouldn't say i'm "paranoid" of you

specifically

, moreso just the idea of townreading you before really getting a ton of evidence. you were posting a lot towards the beginning of the game but around where i am at in my catchup you've sort of fallen off in posting (at least from memory), so i'm reticent to put you higher.

don't remember what game you're talking about with implosion being scum, and either way i don't have a very good model one way or the other of his play.

i think that people had some decent arguments regarding GL's reaction to goats' push, specifically what he said about an early vote and whether or not it makes people less likely to be aligned. i think that his response was pretty well reasoned but even still i have too much respect for his scumgame to put him as a top townread just because we tended to have the same thoughts on things.

goats i actually would put higher if i were remaking that list right now. think i had some alt paranoia that i don't think is warranted.

Okay
I don’t feel like I’m processing this fully rn, prolly gonna hop on PC and look over again

[Gamma Emerald]

But acknowledged to you still catching up

[Gamma Emerald]

You've never seen Titus ask for wagons between two players without the immediate intention of limming one of them? I know you aren't this dense.

Doesn’t she not normally involve herself in the 1v1?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t feel like either of you are scum rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Happy scum day Pooky!

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah man you got me. I'm trying to convince the rest of the town to vote you out and am making posts that insinuate you are mafia. you really exposed my hidden motivations there.

back to catching up – this style of playing where every post you make to someone you suspect is designed to maximally say how so super scummy they are is honestly just really obnoxious. it also makes you look sort of foolish if you're ever wrong. not that i expect it to mean a lot to you or anyone, but i would personally advise against doing it. for in-game reasons it hurts your reputation if you're wrong, out of game i think it makes the game less enjoyable for the person you're talking to and probably other people in the game as well. there's also a subtler psychological aspect which i suspect actually does make a difference – i think that acting this way probably makes it harder for you to change your mind. if you act super confident / arrogant towards someone in making every post over the top in calling them scum, you run into some kind of heavy cognitive dissonance if you ever see evidence that that person is town. you would have to reconcile the fact that this person may be town with the way that you were treating them, which isn't an easy thing to do. thus, like i said, i would suspect it'd be harder to actually change your mind.

anyways, just thought that might be interesting.

Yeah I’ve dealt with that sort of player myself before, it’s not fun

[Gamma Emerald]

hi I'm here again I'm esooa I've read nothing

Oh shoot I haven’t played with you since that newbie!

[Gamma Emerald]

I can name the divergent solving tell after you but you need a snazzy name for it

Did NSG actually start that? I mostly associate this “divergent” thing with Bell because it’s near-always used on him

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Flea the Magician

I don't like any of the Dwlee/MC/NSG wagons currently

Pooky - I see where you're coming from, I definitely don't think this is inspiring play from MC, but I noticed in another game he said "Infinity knows me best" and I think Infinity's meta read holds up

hmmm...

[Gamma Emerald]

you're talking about one post he made under pressure after ghosting the thread for a week.

his previous post had been called out as weak one liners that had no substance or depth, so of course his next post is going to contain like more than one sentence.

he knows he has to make something that looks good or he gets yeeted so why wouldn't he fake some nuance?

like letting someone self-meta their own scum game is like setting up a 5 inch high hurdle for them to walk over.

btw this is the last time murdercat like scumread me for real reals on d1:

Mini 2170

Notice how much more involved he is in solving, interacting in the thread, look at the depth level of his reads and how much detail he goes into for the town even for post elimination after I had already more or less put him in a coffin.

This is not the same at all compared to what he's doing here.

solvy flareon is a rare flareon

like you're assuming that town!murdercat would always have reads with a ton of depth which is clearly not true, even in the game that you linked there are multiple points where his reads aren't super deep

my first assumption is never that someone expanded their scumrange and i'm not sure why yours is

Yeah MURDERCAT wasn’t exactly the towniest in that game
Tbqh I don’t think I’ve ever actually miseliminated MURDERCAT since that game? Only possible exception might be the TM game from this year but I literally gave up my agency so I wouldn’t get miseliminated myself

[Gamma Emerald]

I think goats is scum now

Actually I think they’re town for how different esooa’s approach is
Here’s my own tell, one I’m confident enough in that if I’m right here I think it should get named the Gammatell: hydra dissonance that detracts from any logical agenda is a towntell! Esooa has literally gone against their partner’s established positions like everywhere so far. If they were scum I’d expect at least some sort of tabs to have been kept on what the plan was, but since nothing was forwarded to esooa, it’s way more likely the hydra is town.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's the use of snap reads they out wolves without even trying

Idk how much I actually agree but I’m at least willing to take a side in Mcat vs. Dwlee now

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: flea

Another empty vote.

How about giving some reason to your scumread? You've hardly mentioned me at all and I seem to be the bottom of your list.

I think most of why I think you can be scum is despite having a decent number of posts I can remember like zero of the stances you’ve taken
So: what’s your thought on Murdercat and Pooky?

[Gamma Emerald]

Every hydra keeps up the appearance of internal disagreements always.

what?

You’re telling me you think hydrae DELIBERATELY show dissonance?

[Gamma Emerald]

MC read on Pooky reminds me of MC read on LLD in Yggdrasil so that is tempting.

Okay this doesn’t really vibe well, this reminds me of how scum!me twists anecdotal meta to my ends
And I’ve never really seen anyone even practice my brand of anecdotal meta on ANY level so it’s doubly skeevy

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes... it's been seen as a towntell since I joined. I mean here is a quote from a game I played in 2016:
Subject: Cyberpunk Mafia [Game Over!]

Full disclosure: I told Titus we should push players I know will crack under pressure like Beeboy, Dwlee, and Rylai. She argued with me before our first post and then started shit with Diamond to mess up my game plan. I disavow her posts.

Bad

Okay, well that was deliberate and therefore has an agenda
What the fuck is the gain by contradicting both the GL push and the objection to my exercise?

[Gamma Emerald]

oops

[Gamma Emerald]

I think this hydra dissonance is probably legit and town-indicative

if scum!goats then I doubt a head comes in here and starts posting takes without reading their own ISO or consulting with them about the gamestate, especially one that contradicts a primary scumread
and I also think if scum!goats then whichever head was hard-pushing me would have been talking about it

so either this head is lying about not knowing the game or they're town

See GL is saying the exact things I am

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: flea

Another empty vote.

How about giving some reason to your scumread? You've hardly mentioned me at all and I seem to be the bottom of your list.

I think most of why I think you can be scum is despite having a decent number of posts I can remember like zero of the stances you’ve taken
So: what’s your thought on Murdercat and Pooky?

I cannot read MC at all. I'm literally 0% for reads.
Pooky is doing pooky things, cautious town for now.

srsly
Fine then, I want a full read list since I somehow managed to land on two slots you somehow couldn’t commit to a read on

[Gamma Emerald]

I disagree with most of what Klick says in their first post but I think the post is towny

???

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

The first two people to join me here will be hard town for the rest of D1

This was Klick’s first post
How do you disagree with this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah yes because a cautious town read is not a valid read ^_^

I just want you to actually take a hard stance

[Gamma Emerald]

It doesn’t have to be permanent, just something that doesn’t sound entirely noncommittal

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I see both sides here, but I don’t wanna say more until mcat responds

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah hydras with secret heads are absolutely allowed

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it’s not in character for murdercat!scum to do that sort of play fwiw

[Gamma Emerald]

asdf

[Gamma Emerald]

Pooky please stop because you’re making me want to fly right in the face of the no swearing rule with how irrational you’re being here

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think it’s worth self-voting over

[Gamma Emerald]

Yikes to that VC

[Gamma Emerald]

Another read with no basis.

Hey gamma, pooks is town.

Cool

[Gamma Emerald]

GuiltyLion
Gamma Emerald
Dwlee99
implosion

Datisi
Flea the Magician
PookyTheMagicalBear
Infinity 324
MURDERCAT
Klick

northsidegal
Not_Mafia
goats

This is where I'm at when I just put everyone into what my head associates with their slot and I'm annoyed I have much less solid townreads than before. If I'm wrong on Esooa I am probably wrong on northside cause I'm bad at this game.

nah dude
VOTE: dwlee
That little esooa-NSG read dependency does not look okay

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm really torn on Dwlee. I struggle to read them, so I did the townlock thingie gamma suggested and there's been a lot of "don't push... don't dew it... just no." moments and I'm actually thinking Dwlee has been pretty town here.

I feel like when you have a lot of moments like that the person is just scum
That tends to be the best way to read Noraa!scum I’d say

[Gamma Emerald]

What are don't push it don't dew it moments?

for me they're moments of doubt on townreads when I'm like "this behavior/action seems scummy but not explicitly so, and I don't wanna ditch the read over this one thing"

Gamma do you believe in meta

yup
I waver back and forth on how much I want to rely on it, but I think there are ways to use it well (I'm not sure if my way is one tho tbh)

[Gamma Emerald]

In advance so you don't have to wait for when you respond: I don't believe in meta BUT if you do then I think my play here is similar to Chrono trigger including getting wagoned for dumb reasons. And my goats read is in part motivated by my experience with Guillotina who seemed very assertive in a way you don't expect scum to be but was scum and pushing me in a similar way the more aggressive goats head has been.

this perspective makes sense, don't agree with the goats read but I geddit
UNVOTE:
tbh I might just go "whatever" and "hammer" someone I think has a decent chance of flipping scum (hammer is in quotes because I'm saying I'd put down E-1 with NM in the game which is essentially hammer)

[Gamma Emerald]

my baseline for scum!n_m is jk9++, where he was pretty much posting once every prod. if you want to present me with links to the games you've played with him, can look.

I've already referenced mini 2170, and GL posted a link to it when talking about MURDERCAT

[Gamma Emerald]

What is the iconeum tell? Is it that we are both sort of unsure of the other's wagon?

if it's this idk how much it applies when the game hasn't had a strong wagon since bugspray got replaced imo

[Gamma Emerald]

implo is using like, sample size 2 i feel like i really shouldn't be putting too much stock into that but his numbers are so pretty

it's not that hard a rubric to apply to other NM games tho I'm p sure

[Gamma Emerald]

it's possible white flag changes that consideration, though.

now i'm somewhat nostalgic for team mafia 2018 white flag, that was a good game.

yeah I liked that one too, that's maybe where I started feeling like my towngame wasn't just "I get townread for being an easy target if I make it past X point in the game"

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah, two leading wagons at pressure refusing to vote one another

i was thinking how dwlee is town because they're not voting flea (and said they don't want to) when fae seems like the most likely counterwagon, then i wanted to vote flea, then i was like, wait if flea doesn't wanna vote dwlee who is faer most likely counterwagon, shouldn't i by the same logic be townreading fae but *then* i was like hang on a second, what would the dragon do here

... I'm at pressure?

I both get this and want to ask for more info
why don't you feel pressured, Flea?

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I see both sides here, but I don’t wanna say more until mcat responds

Not sure what you want me to say, this isn't even the basis of my Pooky read anymore

I was mostly not wanting to suggest something you could piggyback
my main thought was that it isn't a requirement to see someone's meta on another player and agree that it's entirely true
and now that I'm writing this a better way to put this would be that might be that there's the chance pooky advanced his ability to read implosion
but most of all my thinking around that time was that pooky wasn't even TRing implosion until he blew up (lol) so like, in a way there's no contradiction to what you said?

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you've been miseliminated enough that you'd kinda feel the heat from that anyway
am I wrong?

[Gamma Emerald]

why dwlee is scum here

It's gut, I don't feel like dwlee's opinions have been genuine/I haven't followed the progression

I'm kinda with this
the reaction to the goats push was just completely gross imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Compare to Death Curse.

I've slept since then

wat

[Gamma Emerald]

Pooky is doing pooky things, cautious town for now.

what's your read on MURDERCAT?

I literally asked about in the post that prompted that :/

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah, that’s valid

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma am I allowed to reverse on my D1 townread and vote N_M or no

By talking about it it’s out there that you’re not really still believing in it, so you do you man

[Gamma Emerald]

I said gamma's name and he didn't respond wtf

That’s because I didn’t get why you directed that at me, I’m not actively pushing you

[Gamma Emerald]

ok but while you're a slow starter, you do lurk it out as scum. And this came up twice that I remember and accurately.

Compare this game to:
-Team Mafia
-Dogs vs Cats
-Among us
-Yggdrasil

All games I was town in, took a bit to get going, then found my footing. Then look at:
-Open 802
-Open 805
-Open 821

FYI my main sample for MURDERCAT slow start games is Student Council

[Gamma Emerald]

hmm

now, i don't think we've actually played together before nor do i think you've been in a game i've modded, but i sort of get the feeling that you probably would never make that kind of comment as town. i think that if i were just trying to keep things super simple 1109 alone probably warrants your death.

[Gamma Emerald]

hmm

now, i don't think we've actually played together before nor do i think you've been in a game i've modded, but i sort of get the feeling that you probably would never make that kind of comment as town. i think that if i were just trying to keep things super simple 1109 alone probably warrants your death.

Actually death kitty has said that before repeatedly, it's their literal D1 defence and they're not wrong either.

VOTE: NorthSideGal

Yeah that feels like NSG is trying to channel other play styles to hide behind them

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah that feels like NSG is trying to channel other play styles to hide behind them

elaborate?

Between shading dwlee by saying RC would have pushed him and that, it feels like you’re going “I think others would push this so I will”. There’s two issues I have with that, it’s shifting the blame somewhat because you can claim you were just playing like someone else might have, and it makes any meta deviations harder to pin.

[Gamma Emerald]

so i will"? and what about anything from my play seems like "channeling other playstyles"? just off-hand mentioning something i think someone else would notice once doesn't to me seem to make it so that somehow any meta deviations would be more difficult to see in me.

The fact you’re like “I’d probably push this if I were playing a different way” tells me that you’re not playing a natural game, you’re forcing things in some way. You could be town doing it perhaps, but rn it feels like a scum tactic

[Gamma Emerald]

a "lockscum if not obvtown" player

I’ve never really considered NSG one of these players for me

[Gamma Emerald]

so i will"? and what about anything from my play seems like "channeling other playstyles"? just off-hand mentioning something i think someone else would notice once doesn't to me seem to make it so that somehow any meta deviations would be more difficult to see in me.

The fact you’re like “I’d probably push this if I were playing a different way” tells me that you’re not playing a natural game, you’re forcing things in some way. You could be town doing it perhaps, but rn it feels like a scum tactic

?

do you really think that saying "if i were just keeping things simple then X" indicates that i'm "forcing" my playstyle?

Yeah? You’re saying that you’re not doing X, that makes it seem like under standard circumstances you’d do X

[Gamma Emerald]

pretty sure she's like an 85 on the Bell Curve

Okay this is clever

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: murdercat
yes I know this is going against my own exercise but this was probably visible from a mile away and it's kinda close to deadline so I'm sacrificing artistic integrity for game advancement
idk how effectively I masked it but I've pretty much been feeling like murdercat stood a solid chance of being scum since a little bit after he got more active since a lot of his posting has stood out as generally scummy
plus I think the thunderdome came in with the intent of taking eyes off of NSG who was replacing into a tight spot, in order to allow her to navigate into the scum agenda smoothly.
take it away, NM.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: but since the cat's out of the bag (lol) I'm still probably going back to murdercat once these things happen

[Gamma Emerald]

But if MC is town, Pooky actually has a ton of reason to want him specifically gone because he will probably be able to get a good solve later. From what was linked earlier, scum!pooky pushed MC in their last game with scum! pooky and town!MC

yeah MCat solved both scum!pooky and scum!NM correctly in mini 2170 and got mislimmed D1

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like infinity is town here
I am sticking to THAT read from the exercise

[Gamma Emerald]

i am kind of unnerved by implo seemingly fading into the background recently. maybe it's just because he hasn't written any of those wallposts in a bit but it feels like he's playing lower effort. which doesn't necessarily imply scum but it's noticeable at least

ditto but goats~

I've been following along but there just hasn't been all that much that's modified my core of reads at this point.

yeah I'm really wondering where the original goats head went, I think I was probably wrong to give them towncred for the new head coming in when the push on Dwlee was consistent

reskimming their ISO again I could see them as partners with MURDERCAT - a lot of early scumreading / light distancing but no vote, tunneled me instead, and when push came to shove and MC wagon took off they largely disappeared

I could see this

[Gamma Emerald]

I dislike Datisi, who waiting something from me, like i could add something after 3 hours of replacement at night time, makes me think about Murder+Datisi team, expecting i say something dumb and become viable target instead.

...

yeah ok sure why not, i think this is crazy enough to be town paranoia.

It feels more defensive than paranoid
Could go either way in terms of alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

And what are you basing that off of?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Murder hasn’t really been doing towny things, even after shifting into “second gear” so to speak
I’ll admit I’ve been wrong before but I feel like Murder!scum feels viable in a good number of scenarios

[Gamma Emerald]

Very well.

Do you consider my reasoning wrong or something?

No, I’m just confused why your basically doing nothing rn
Do you not intend to catch up on the game? If so, how do you plan on being aware of events? If not, why haven’t I seen signs of it yet?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not convinced we auto elim pooky but I’m open to it.

So scum lol

Yeah I kinda feel this myself from that comment

[Gamma Emerald]

-_-

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll actually contribute soon, I just kinda got behind on stuff I intended to do during the night phase

[Gamma Emerald]

NM not even once did you ever even approach talking about my exercise
would you like to offer some thoughts? I'd probably be fine with the most basic of surface level statements, I just need SOMETHING on that front

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I wanna try something a bit different this game. During the first couple days of D1, I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town, working with them to try and form reads, push scum, and solve the game. I think in a setup like this, a tactic like what I’m suggesting could bear some tasty fruit.

I already have a my two picks kinda set in my head and I’d rather people make selections before interactions start to really get going, so to start us off I’m picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT.

this one

[Gamma Emerald]

also I'd like everyone else who directly gave selections to tell me what they're thinking of their picks atp
flea most of all I think

[Gamma Emerald]

would you like to offer some thoughts?

No thank you

fair enough

[Gamma Emerald]

@pooky

: why did you initially decide to limit your post count D1?

[Gamma Emerald]

because as I see it no matter your alignment you stole that shtick from someone else

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I wanna try something a bit different this game. During the first couple days of D1, I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town, working with them to try and form reads, push scum, and solve the game. I think in a setup like this, a tactic like what I’m suggesting could bear some tasty fruit.

I already have a my two picks kinda set in my head and I’d rather people make selections before interactions start to really get going, so to start us off I’m picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT.

how would you feel about every player in the game picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT?

@implo

: was there any actual point to this???

[Gamma Emerald]

let him answer pls

[Gamma Emerald]

like yes that's possible but you chiming in doesn't help anything there

[Gamma Emerald]

lol

[Gamma Emerald]

atp I think I have everyone's response to the initial exercise properly notarized and I have reads on each of the players based on them pretty much (there's like 2-3 slots I dunno if I can pull anything AI from)

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma - so yeah I still have you as locktown but N_M I think is just scum who got me with a good early game

p-edit: hmmm I just saw DGB do a similar "didn't realize the NK" townslip as town, I could maybe buy that one

also I think flea did notice the NK and is being cheeky about it

[Gamma Emerald]

okay
am I wrong about you taking it from nacho or whoever did it in TENET tho?

[Gamma Emerald]

"1 post per day" doesn't result in 25 posts per game day tho, which is the limit I was more interested in
but that answers that I guess

[Gamma Emerald]

ah

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: goats
I feel like the fact an entire 3-head hydra just ghosted is a bad sign

[Gamma Emerald]

how about pooky?

i felt pretty good about both goats heads that posted so not interested in an elim there

Here’s the thing, when I actually turned on my brain to look at how those heads interacted with my exercise I noticed they kinda split the middle on two stratagems I feel like scum might tend to do

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like goats and nsg seem right which would be enough to win anyway

[Gamma Emerald]

do i have to read things

yes

[Gamma Emerald]

what....

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like goats and nsg seem right which would be enough to win anyway

why's this btw

I did something early and I think both of those slots interacted with it in scum ways

[Gamma Emerald]

do u actually think that would do anything

do you think this is ai for dwlee?

i struggle to believe anyone would expect that trap to work so in a vacuum it seems like a thing done to try to look town rather than anything that would actually get a read on me

I feel like goats and nsg seem right which would be enough to win anyway

why's this btw

I did something early and I think both of those slots interacted with it in scum ways

hm your theory is probably bad then

I don't feel like it is
I'm very likely not going into full specifics but this is a continuation of someone else's body of work

[Gamma Emerald]

as such there's potential for wrongness in the undiscovered territory but I feel like what I'm SRing from goats is previously tread ground in a way

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I wanna try something a bit different this game. During the first couple days of D1, I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town, working with them to try and form reads, push scum, and solve the game. I think in a setup like this, a tactic like what I’m suggesting could bear some tasty fruit.

I already have a my two picks kinda set in my head and I’d rather people make selections before interactions start to really get going, so to start us off I’m picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT.

how would you feel about every player in the game picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT?

@implo

: was there any actual point to this???

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking about it anyone not at least suspicious of goats/bloodhail rn kinda needs a real good reason

[Gamma Emerald]

Why the hell’d you ask then? You’re literally abdicating the possibility you were trying to sort me with that question by just straight up denying you had any intention with it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ellitell is the best way I can put it while making sure I’m staying on the good side of ongoing game discussion
But I also just think if it were a town hydra at least one head would have remained to play solo

[Gamma Emerald]

And in addition the fact that the heads managed to split the difference on two different ways I’d expect scum to interact with my exercise is just no bueno

[Gamma Emerald]

I forget when I’ve applied it in the past but I remember the foundational instance that led me to believe scum hydrae tend to flake out entirely versus just having one head falling away

[Gamma Emerald]

noted player who I have historically never successfully read before.

wut
pretty sure you've had a decent trck record of finding town!me? Do you just not think you have an exact method for doing so and thus not think I'm readable yet?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why the hell’d you ask then? You’re literally abdicating the possibility you were trying to sort me with that question by just straight up denying you had any intention with it.

I mean, it was a half assed joke about it being a somewhat silly exercise. Wasn’t much else to it. It’s not like I was desperately searching for opportunities to read Gamma Emerald, noted player who I have historically never successfully read before. It’s also not like asking that question prevents me from using your play around the question to sort you later.

yikes
NM might be right about you when I think about what's being said here wrt the exercise

[Gamma Emerald]

okay...?

[Gamma Emerald]

I do think if you thought it was silly and were town you'd have actually spoken up more on the subject

[Gamma Emerald]

im pretty susp of dwlee/enchant

why?
I kinda feel like enchant is town, somewhat by virtue of klick's play

[Gamma Emerald]

You made more grammar errors than me.
Congratulations!


Also, no, i still think you are competent enough. I don't need to play with you to know it. It's also part of reason, why i never believe you are town fully.

this just sounds like a load of crap -_-

[Gamma Emerald]

might not be scum indicative crap but it's definitely crap

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think you are painting your knowledge of pooky correctly
I don't feel like you'd act like you are if you don't have experience playing with him.

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

damn I sucked it this game

[Gamma Emerald]

how the fuck did I get shot when my reads were total dumpster trash for most of the game

[Gamma Emerald]

wb rc

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah gg scum, you all did pretty well, even bloodhail despite being doa

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I'm too much of an emotional wreck to swear rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I had a PT but I’m not releasing it because it’s pretty much all either me venting salt and feeling of betrayal from MCat or stuff that would break the Magician’s Code if I let it go public just like that