Mini 659: The Neighborhood- Game over on Day 6

[crywolf20084]

Random vote

##Vote: Lowell

[crywolf20084]

Otherwise scum could do what iamausername did and claim miller on d1. Yes they will come up as guilty if investigated, but it wouldn't matter. Effectively, what iamausername did was make it pointless to investigate them - if there is a cop.

Certainly. That's why I think claiming immediately as miller is a good idea; it prevents the cop wasting an investigation on me. If I didn't claim, and was investigated tonight, we'd likely have a cop outed for no reason, and a mislynch tomorrow, because no one would (or should) believe someone who claims miller AFTER a cop comes out with a guilty on them. Better that I get mislynched today, if it comes to that, and leave the cop free to make actual useful investigations.

With you claiming, I can still see the cop invetigating you, just to make sure, and then outting himself to let everyone know that you

did

came up guilty. We would then have a long look at you to decied if a lynch would be a good idea or bad idea. So, the cop really does have a reason to look into you....

##unvote

mah random vote


On a nonserious tone, am I the only girl? o-o?

[crywolf20084]

##unvote, vote tony

. His post is all over the map. He's trying to sow the seeds of doubt without having to take responsibility himself.

Yay for vague, unsubstantiated attacks.

I agree with Lowell, but not enough to put a third vote on your head yet.

All you seem to be doing is talking.

FOS Tony

User claimed miller which means he is (a) a miller telling the truth (b) a mobster lying or (c) another option that I'm not going to explain for now.

I am awfully interested in what you're thinking for option (c).

I've slept on your thoughts and I think I may know where you are going, but I'll keep my thoughts to myself for a little longer.

[crywolf20084]

There are so many people I want dead.

What the hell do you mean?

[crywolf20084]

All you seem to be doing is talking.

I wasn't aware that you could do much else than talk in internet mafia. ¬¬

Tony - You call lowells attack vague and unsubstantiated. Could you elaborate on why this is? It seemed like he had a decent point to me so I'd like to see where youre coming from.

I really think lowell is the one who needs to elaborate.
He said my post was all over the map. How so?
He said i was sowing seeds of doubt. How so?
And doing so without taking responsibility myself. Responsibility for what?

That's what I meant with vague (as in just general characterizations thrown my way) and unsubstantiated (some direct criticism on what I said would've been nice)

This post satisfies me, and now makes me wanna think about Lowell.

I'll have a nice post tomorrow when I'm not feeling so bad with allergies.

[crywolf20084]

@wolf: If I thought it was pro-town to discuss option (c) I would have done so. Why are you nudging me to reveal more information?

I'm curious is all. If it's not pro town, why bring it up at all?

[crywolf20084]

Whoa there, Lowell. Firstly, there's no need to be rude.

Secondly, you're putting words into his mouth. He doesn't suggest lynching, counter-claiming or fake-claiming. It's particularly impressive that you accuse him of suggesting counter-claiming, since he introduced that concept with "heaven forbid".

He does indeed appeal to both meta-game patterns and the authenticity of iamausername's piano teacher flavour, but how can those things possibly count as "trying to bait someone else into opposing the claim"? Both of them support the claim's truth!

FOS: Lowell

I perticually don't like this post, and you were also quick to defend Tony in post 90 as well, but in post 68 (sorry none of these are linked) you told Tony to shut the hell up. Why the change in heart?

##Unvote, ##vote: crywolf

. I don't like the way she pushed a Tony wagon in this post without actually commiting to it herself. Feels like she was fishing to see if it would gain any traction, and retracted her 'suspicion' when it became clear it wouldn't.

How was I "pushing" for a bandwagon in that post? (It's post 50) I FOSed him, and that was good enough for me at the time. I didn't go shouting that we need to lynch Tony that moment.

@Fhqwh: You told User to shut up, then FOSed me, as though you agreed with him. May I ask why you agree?


As for user's claim for Miller, I'm just going to let it be a big red arrow pointing at his head, saying I shouldn't be completely trusted just yet.

[crywolf20084]

Edit:

As for user's claim for miller, I'm just going to let it be a big red arrow saying that he shouldn't be trusted just yet.

[crywolf20084]

I find it odd that people agree with crywolf looking scummy, but then vote for Lowell.

##vote: Crywolf

Can I ask what I've done scummy in your opinion before I get a little ticked off at the vote?

[crywolf20084]

I find it odd that people agree with crywolf looking scummy, but then vote for Lowell.

##vote: Crywolf

Can I ask what I've done scummy in your opinion before I get a little ticked off at the vote?

Why would anybody get ticked off at any vote?

I have reasons for my vote. My next post in this game will include them.

I can get ticked off if I don't understand where the vote is coming from. And I can't wait to hear what you have to say.

[crywolf20084]

Promise to make an analysis with a failure to follow up (that was posted Friday. It is now monday and you are obviously posting in the thread). This has been used by scum to appear more active / helpful than they are.

This I apologize for. I had a post on the last page that adressed some of the things bugging me, which is what you're replying to.

As for the rest of the stuff, thank you for making them known.

[crywolf20084]

QFT (that means Quoted For Truth, FYI (that means For Your Information)).

I was told by my friends that it ment Quit Fucking Talking, which is why there is a huge miss understanding.
Thank you for claifying it.

##unvote, ##vote crywolf.

Bandwagoning. I don't think we'll get much of a read out of her unless she feels the pressure.

What are you trying to get out of me? You of all people won't get anything out of me because you've been pretty much been a hardass since the first vote was laid on your head.

And since you were so kind to bandwagon on me, I shall return the favor.

## Vote: Lowell

[crywolf20084]

Edit: misunderstanding not miss understanding. X.x

[crywolf20084]

OK, I was considering changing my vote to Darox for some pretty shameless bandwagoning on Lowell, but then crywolf went and OMGUSed him to L-1. Other Lowell voters, are you entirely content with this situation?

Yeah, as of right now I am pretty content with my OMGUS vote on him. Maybe if he stops being a little less ruthless to everyone in general, my vote might go away.

[crywolf20084]

Hey all, I'm still here. Post coming tonight.

[crywolf20084]

Hey all, I'm still here. Post coming tonight.

I'm sorry if I've been a little busy with medical issues that

will

put me outta commission for a month.

I am creating a post right now.

[crywolf20084]

**Note: I’m just going in the order I see the posts. I don’t feel like organizing it to each person.

##unvote

this wagon went way to fast for my liking, and lowell hasnt even got around to answering my initial questions. Lets just slow it down a bit, and look more carefully at everyone voting lowell.

Why are you so concerned with how fast the people on the Lowell wagon are voting. If I remember correctly, and I’m pretty sure I do, the votes on my head added up pretty quickly too.

...by-and-large I agree that one of wolf/Lowell is scum.

Furthermore, I think only one of the pair is scum...

I don't like this line of thinking. Though I agree that it's unlikely both are scum, you've failed to consider that they could both be town. And if they are, what I've quoted above would be a smooth move from the real mafia.

Nothing to hang you over, but certainly worth noting.

I'm still more comfortable with wolf than Lowell but I'd rather have more than two choices before we lynch.

I agree with this statement. But in post 151 Rash goes on to say:

Just because I didn't mention it, it doesn't mean that I didn't consider it. Looking the other way and rewarding their bad play by overly casting doubt on legitimate suspicions is not what I'm about. Sorry if it seems harsh, but I was serious when I asked for a claim.

IMO, the statement didn’t seem that harsh. Like Ythill said, it could’ve been a very smooth move played by some very experienced scum. Though I must admit, Rash hasn’t given me much more to suspect that he is scum.

My vote is staying on cry though (for now). She admitted her vote was OMGUS and says she is comfortable with it.

Lowell’s vote on my was a OMGUS vote too, so why are you more comfy on me, than on him?

Judging from the volume of games Lowell has played/replaced in and a sample of posts I'd say his somewhat erratic posting style is not really indicative of alignment here.

No, it doesn’t. But it also doesn’t mean that he has to go out of his way to be vindictive and uncooperative.

I'd much rather hear what crywolf's reasons are for any of her actions, as seeing we have only been getting vague reasons and even an OMGUS as reasoning so far.

At least I have given some reasons. Lowell has yet to give much in the way of opinions.

As promised...

Those voting for Lowell

:
Tony: I don’t like the way he agrees with user about wolf’s actions, but somehow translates that to a point against Lowell. His vote is pure OMGUS. Later (in #92) he backs this up with a post that is such a defense-attack combo that it’s hard to tell what he’s getting at. I think this is the scummiest vote on Lowell.

Tommy: I think his vote is solid, though my experience with Lowell is that the tells mentioned by Tommy are unreliable. No suspicion of Tommy here, I just don’t agree with him.

Darox: Like all of his vote changes, the reasons for this one are vague. I don’t like baseless assertions, but there are scummier votes on this wagon.

Rash: I already talked about how I didn’t like the eeny-meeny approach to this vote, but I can follow the reasoning and it seems to me like Rash is honestly trying to determine Lowell’s alignment in later posts.

wolf: Pure OMGUS, and confirmed as comfortable @ L-2. A vague statement about aggression is her only other reasoning. This vote is a close second for scummiest on the wagon.

Elias (who has unvoted): This vote came with a solid case that was the strongest of several stated suspicions. It was accompanied by reasonable follow-up and removed when appropriate. No problems with this vote at all.

Those voting for wolf

:
user: The reasoning is a little empty, considering wolf’s play, but it makes sense. He’s followed it up with a little bit of nitpicking. This vote is not a town-tell but it seems honest enough to me.

bionic: I particularly like his initial pressure vote because it was based on a trend that was concerning to me as well. He made some valid points in his follow-up case. I like the way user keeps an eye on the big picture and my read on him is starting to lean town, which is based on things separate from his vote but generally helps me to view that vote as more valid.

Ythill: Obvtown. All of his votes are jedi-ninja cool.

Lowell (who has unvoted): This vote is a Lowell-tell. I don't like it, or agree with it. If I'd not played with Lowell before, I'd even find it suspicious. But I have played with Lowell before. Those who haven't should seriously take the time to meta him.

Discuss.

I’m not sure I like you self analysis on why you are voting me, it might be helpful to list your reasons again just to make sure they are consistent.

And I have taken the time to meta Lowell and I understand this is a similar pattern of Lowell’s.

##unvote

There’s nothing I can do about his erratic play style, and my vote had no other basis other than it was an OMGUS vote.

I dunno what to say to Tony’s 167. I don’t like his attitude in it, though I do agree that we shouldn’t just stop looking at Lowell just because his play style is erratic, like always, I don’t like how Tony assumes everyone is just gonna stop looking at him. If anything, it makes me not like how Tony is acting at the current moment.

Yuck. Long post. I’m gonna pick up from Ythill’s post, 170 tomorrow, and finish up the thread then.


---

@crywolf 193 you should probably ask for a replacement if you haven't already (provided your condition precludes access to the thread)

Get well soon.

The surgery won't be till january. just lots of doctor appts ontop of college ontop of a job. Luckily, I only am in one game other wise i'd be having a hard time keeping up.

Thank you for the concern though.

[crywolf20084]

I want him to stop acting in an anti town manner. Because... it is anti town?

Well ain't that a perfect argument.

[crywolf20084]

Only if no one manages to

make themselves look scummier

and a deadline threatens, but I find this unlikely.

I find this phrasing interesting. Town are looking out for people who are actually acting scummy. Scum are looking out for townies who are making themselves look scummy.

I highly agree with this. I'm starting to think that Darox is starting to crack under the questions, which i think are fairly easy questions to answer.

Darox needs to use clearer language to reduce these misunderstandings that provide legitimate reasons for why his posts are "misrepresented."

QFT. Like i just said, i feel as though he's starting to break under the pressure of everyone 'not understanding him'.

iamausername argues that lynching someone for anti-town behavior is not what we should be doing. Instead we should be lynching scum. I want to know what iamausername thinks the difference is in these two categories of lynch reasons.

I saw that too, but when I saw you posted it i didn't feel like quoteing it myself.

I do want to know what the difference. Yes sometimes town does give off scum vibes, but are those not the vibes you should follow to make sure that, ehem, you get the scum????

@User: I think arguing with the others is more effective in finding scum, FYI.

[crywolf20084]

Just posting real quick because I'm supposed to be writing a paper for my english class...or at least starting it anyways.

crywolf

unvotes Lowell in #195, placing him at four votes, admitting that her vote had no real basis besides OMGUS, and after apparently doing some meta-reading on Lowell. This still doesn't excuse her putting it there in the first place, but the attention had moved away from her at this point, and I think she could easily have maintained the vote without taking more heat than she already had. Interesting.

But if I decide to go vote Lowell again, inevitibly hammering him, and for some reason it ends up being a mislynch, all the heat gets placed right back on me. So yeah, I'm a hammerphobe as of right now. I want to do it, I just don't want to be blamed for the hammering of a townie, because we all should know, Lowell's play style means nothing to his allignment.

But, sheesh... I just don't like how he's

blatently

avoided many of the questions posed to him, and/or ignoring them completely.


Oh what the hell...

##Vote: Lowell

What comes of it comes.

[crywolf20084]

Quick post. Making one right now.

Sorry for not being on this weekend. I forgot about a baby shower then I had to work yesterday from 9 AM till midnight (yes i worked that freakin long and I am now done with my first class.)

Couple things that I've noticed before I've even posted. A: I thought my vote was the hammer. I miss counted.

B: Darox I think will be a better day two lynch, sub-a: because his posts are often chaotic, and I wanna see if he can give us a hint to where his scum buddies are, and sub-b: Lowell

has

gotten awfully quiet, which could just mean he's damn busy, or we've gotten under his skin, and he doesn't want to hurt the scum's chances at winning.

Uhh... I think that is it for this post. Lemme read and catch up thourghly what i missed, and I should have another post with some other thoughts.

[crywolf20084]

1) Your reason for voting Lowell is that he avoids and ignores questions. Is there anything else, or is that the sole basis for your suspicion?

He’s constantly between two ideas about everything except his voting. He picked me to vote from page one and stuck with it, and now that people aren’t following his way, he seems more and more uncooperative.

2) When you say "Lowell's play style means nothing to his allignment", do you mean that it's actually impossible to find any evidence against him, and that a Lowell-lynch will always be a blind guess?

Perhaps. As of right now, he has deiviated from his play style, so that in itself could be called evidence, which I am.

3) If the answer to question (2) is yes, how do you square that with the reason I mention in question (1)? If the answer is no, when did you start feeling there was evidence against Lowell? What was it that began to change your mind?

Post 231 is one post that made me change my mind. (I may come back to this as I continue to read through)

4) Given that you were in a hurry and that you were reluctant to be blamed for Lowell's death, you could have waited till you had more time to carefully construct a detailed post giving the reasoning behind your change of heart. Why, then, did you feel it was necessary to get your vote on the table right then rather than, say, a day later?

If you haven’t noticed, my posting schedule has been a little scarce these last couple days, and I wanted to make sure I had a say if anything happened. Yes, I do think a hammer (even if it’s false) is a little drastic, but I wanted people to know where my opinion stood on Lowell. I believe that it was the best time for a lynch, and as the deadline is inching closer, and it keeps inching closer yet.

@ Bionic’s 266: Then, I was putting on a defense, now my vote is where I want it to be for the day to end on. Yes, it was put on a little early, but I want to see him swing.

Obviously I disagree since my vote is on crywolf and has been most of the day. This is not a newbie game, so I don't see any player as a newbie. If I get chance, I will try to meta her.

Good luck at that. Though, I do agree, that this is not a newb game, so I’m not looking for any sympathy if I can’t just hold in one scummy thought. It’s how I learned how to play in real life, and is how I will probably continue to play.

- I always view setting up future lynches as scummy

I like having a game plan for the next day. It is much easier that way for the scum to maybe take care of somebody I thought was scum, and will no longer have to sift through to get to the real scum.

Claim or die is not the same as 'He hasn't claimed yet, kill him.'

Uhh… Yes it is… If you don’t claim, you usually get killed. Or at least that is how it’s interpurated most times.

@Darox’s 302&304: Shut up.

Crywolf is looking scummier and scummier, its like she's stumbling around looking for a handle on this. Still, lowell today pluz

My I ask what was so "scummy" about that last post. I told you what I thought, and that was it. I'm not trying to hide any sort of allignment. All I know is I want to the bottom of this lowell issue!!!

[crywolf20084]

EDIT:

Regarding Tommy's # 3: I have nothing really else to add as of yet. I wanna see what happens with Lowell.

[crywolf20084]

Wolf's response isn't sterling. Mainly, I don't like the waffling between #312 (where she diminishes the case on Lowell) and #314 (where she pushes it again), although this could be a function of tense. Otherwise, she's answered the questions adequately enough.

That's the nicest thing you've said about me the whole game.

Lemme look at those posts and see if I can clairfy them.

[crywolf20084]

Two posts, two terrible posts. You aren't doing too well today. I may just reread you for that.

Oman, who are you refering to? Rash or Tony??

[crywolf20084]

The NK is indeed strange. I'll have to look back, but someone noted that they think they know what option 'c' was that Ythill talked about earlier. Can't remember who now, but it might be worth looking into.

To save you the trouble, that was me asking about option c, and I think someone else mentioned it as well. Now that its been told, I'm not sure what to think.

the NK is awfully strange, and I don't what to take of it. Lemme do a reread tomorrow after classes and I'll have something for ya guys.

I wanna see Darox, Tony, and Tommy have some

thoughtful

posts before I start at them.

[crywolf20084]

This is a thoughtful post.

I didn't get why the scum would try to kill user. Despite Ythill's theories a power role claiming miller to try and avoid the night kill is far from likely in the current meta, and makes for an easier lynch, as well as all the 'Lynch all Liars' rhetoric which hurts any future results he wants to claim later.

The only reason why this post is making me think about you is because i have no idea what you are exactly trying to get at.
A) They didn't try to kill user, User is gone. No more user.
B) Easier lynch of whom?
C) Why exactly would hurt any future claims of Ythill (if thats who you're refering to)

[crywolf20084]

This is a thoughtful post.

I didn't get why the scum would try to kill user. Despite Ythill's theories a power role claiming miller to try and avoid the night kill is far from likely in the current meta, and makes for an easier lynch, as well as all the 'Lynch all Liars' rhetoric which hurts any future results he wants to claim later.

The only reason why this post is making me think about you is because i have no idea what you are exactly trying to get at.
A) They didn't try to kill user, User is gone. No more user.
B) Easier lynch of whom?
C) Why exactly would hurt any future claims of Ythill (if thats who you're refering to)

This is very easy to answer.

A) You are wrong
B) You are wrong
C) You are wrong

Oh, alright, I'll explain it a bit more.

A) Yes they did. Thats why he is, you know, dead. Unless you are suggesting there is a vigilante/serial killer who decided to kill AND that the mafia got blocked/countered by another player, the Mafia killed user.
B) Easier to lynch User. Because, you know, he was the one that claimed Miller, which brings the focus onto him.
C) I'm referring to the 'Claim miller as cop' idea from Ythill which suggests why he would be a target for night kills despite claiming miller. Someone who claims miller then later claims that they are instead cop is a liar. Considering the 'Lynch all Liars' idea, I think that claiming miller at the start would only be damaging to any pro town investigative power role.

A)No, that is not what i'm suggesting, but it could be a possiblity. A very slight remote possiblity, but a possiblity nevertheless.
B)I agree with that.
C)--Will get back to this in a short moment--

[crywolf20084]

C) I agree with you here. Why does Ythill suggest something so far-fetched? It really doesn't make much sense... Though I do see why he said it was a very anti-town for that moment.

[crywolf20084]

##Vote: TonyMontana

This vote has reasons.

you can't just vote and not tell without some looking at you even harder.

[crywolf20084]

I wouldn't say 0,

I've said my share about the Elias/bionic exchange, but they have both gone quieter after that, so no more to say on that for now. My argument on you have also hit a brick wall. And I think it would be healthier to look at others for the moment too. But the others have been pretty quiet. I guess I'll have to reread day 1. Don't have time at the moment though, maybe later tonight.

Its not that you're argument on Darox has it a brick wall, I almost comepletely agree with it, and I'm gathering a list right now about three people: Darox, Tommy, and Tony.

@Oman: I really don't know if you're really gonna get anything out of Darox. It seems like he's stalling to think up a good answer, and to tell you the truth, I'm quite surpised that my questions i posed to him came back thoughtful and quickly for that matter. And if i recall correctly, its the only time he's actually done so.

[crywolf20084]

@wolf: You didn't answer me at all. I want to know if you read the game in which I helped mislynch Lowell D1. If you didn't, I want you to tell me why you didn't

Sorry I missed you question. No I did not read that game. I read Mini 466; Lowell as scum and Mini 621 him as town.

[crywolf20084]

urrrgg... i screwed up the links.... w/e you catch the drift.

[crywolf20084]

Hey guys. Little under the weather and my power's been going in and out dispite the fact its perfectly sunny right now. I'll post again either because my power has decided to be stable, or on monday between my classes.

Sorry!

[crywolf20084]

Tommy - why did you feel the need to answer for Tony there?

Aha! So I'm not the only one that has noticed that. There has been several instences where you, Tommy have been either quick to defend, or quick to answer for Tony, and it hasn't been just recent. I have been keeping track of that for quiet some time now. Let me go find my list of posts and finish catching up to everything thats going on right now.

[crywolf20084]

68 Tommy QFTed Tony about wanting lowell to talk, which was kinda vastly agreed but that's when I first picked up on the whole one way Tommy/Tony thing

90 is the frist instance where Tommy goes out of the way to defend Tony.

I'd like you to defend your criticism of TonyMontana WITH looking back. Only then can you feasibly accuse anyone else of being "half-assed".

94 he does it again.

Secondly, you

(Lowell)

're putting words into his

(Tony's)

mouth. He doesn't suggest lynching, counter-claiming or fake-claiming. It's particularly impressive that you accuse him of suggesting counter-claiming, since he introduced that concept with "heaven forbid".

There was nothing about TonyMontana's post "clamoring for more flavor", or "implying he wanted to draw more out of the claim".

about Tony, and is trying to get lowell to talk about it.

201 he once again is talking about Tony.

Tony: I don’t like the way he agrees with user about wolf's actions, but somehow translates that to a point against Lowell. His vote is pure OMGUS. Later (in #92) he backs this up with a post that is such a defense-attack combo that it’s hard to tell what he’s getting at. I think this is the scummiest vote on Lowell.

Your first point must refer to post 87, which isn't pure OMGUS at all. The gist is that crywolf may be scummy to fall for Lowell's bait, but that Lowell is scummier for setting it in the first place. I agree with Tony there.

Post 92 is indeed a combination of defending himself and attacking Lowell, but since the scummiest thing Lowell has done was attack Tony, that's perfectly natural. It isn't hard to tell what he's getting at - in fact, I agree with Tony there too.

Since this analysis, you've gone back on part of it. Do you still believe Tony's is a scummy vote, though?

This post is a little bit more warrented because he is commenting on a group of people, but still he has more to say about Tony than he does about anybody else.

251 is yet another post. At the end he comments on how people are getting him and Tony confused. I can see why with all of this defending.

457 he starts up again with a nice period of ignoring Tony.

Could it not just be that they wanted to get the miller out of the way rather sooner than later, and save power-role hunting for when they have a better shot?
No scum wants a miller in a endgame. And the chance that user could've been fakeclaiming to protect himself would be a bonus.

I just thought of another reason to kill user. So the scum can be like "why on earth would they kill user?"

Can you please explain to me what prompted you to defend the mafia nightkill choice?

This isn't really defence. He's trying to work out how the mafia are thinking, which is pro-town. It would be bad if he was saying, "I think X and Y are Mafia, but let's be nice and not vote for them."

I really don't know why I was saving this, but I feel like now that someone else has noticed it that its a good time to bring this out into the open.

With this I shall

##Vote: Tommy

[crywolf20084]

Are you kidding me....


Let me try this again....

68 Tommy QFTed Tony about wanting lowell to talk, which was kinda vastly agreed but that's when I first picked up on the whole one way Tommy/Tony thing

90 is the frist instance where Tommy goes out of the way to defend Tony.

I'd like you to defend your criticism of TonyMontana WITH looking back. Only then can you feasibly accuse anyone else of being "half-assed".

94 he does it again.

Secondly, you

(Lowell)

're putting words into his

(Tony's)

mouth. He doesn't suggest lynching, counter-claiming or fake-claiming. It's particularly impressive that you accuse him of suggesting counter-claiming, since he introduced that concept with "heaven forbid".

There was nothing about TonyMontana's post "clamoring for more flavor", or "implying he wanted to draw more out of the claim".

150 he is still talking about Tony, and is trying to get lowell to talk about it.

201 he once again is talking about Tony.

Tony: I don’t like the way he agrees with user about wolf's actions, but somehow translates that to a point against Lowell. His vote is pure OMGUS. Later (in #92) he backs this up with a post that is such a defense-attack combo that it’s hard to tell what he’s getting at. I think this is the scummiest vote on Lowell.

Your first point must refer to post 87, which isn't pure OMGUS at all. The gist is that crywolf may be scummy to fall for Lowell's bait, but that Lowell is scummier for setting it in the first place. I agree with Tony there.

Post 92 is indeed a combination of defending himself and attacking Lowell, but since the scummiest thing Lowell has done was attack Tony, that's perfectly natural. It isn't hard to tell what he's getting at - in fact, I agree with Tony there too.

Since this analysis, you've gone back on part of it. Do you still believe Tony's is a scummy vote, though?

This post is a little bit more warrented because he is commenting on a group of people, but still he has more to say about Tony than he does about anybody else.

251 is yet another post. At the end he comments on how people are getting him and Tony confused. I can see why with all of this defending.

457 he starts up again with a nice period of ignoring Tony.

Could it not just be that they wanted to get the miller out of the way rather sooner than later, and save power-role hunting for when they have a better shot?
No scum wants a miller in a endgame. And the chance that user could've been fakeclaiming to protect himself would be a bonus.

I just thought of another reason to kill user. So the scum can be like "why on earth would they kill user?"

Can you please explain to me what prompted you to defend the mafia nightkill choice?

This isn't really defence. He's trying to work out how the mafia are thinking, which is pro-town. It would be bad if he was saying, "I think X and Y are Mafia, but let's be nice and not vote for them."

Yay there we go.

[crywolf20084]

@fhq: Tommy because he

is

buddying up with somebody very anti-town. Don't get me wrong, I believe that both Darox and Tony are getting what they deserve in the way of questioning.

Yes, It's the questions and critique that's getting to me

I get irked when you accuse me of not answering straight when I say that I don't think Darox is town.
That means I think he's scum, and I don't know what you would think I could gain from saying something else than "DAROX IS SCUM"

Please use the three E's as my professors have preached to the classes.

Explain.

Elaborate.

Examples.


And ya know what, people wouldn't be getting on your nerves if you would just follow that, because guess what, it's the lack of those three things that everyone is questioning you for!

[crywolf20084]

EDIT: Darox, that goes for you too...

[crywolf20084]

Add-on to Fhq: Either Tony or Tommy would be a good lynch for today because:

A) If Tommy is gone, how long will Tony last without Tommy's defence.

B) If Tony's gone, what kind of opinions can Tommy bring to the table that haven't already been spewed forthwith by Tony.

[crywolf20084]

And ya know what, people wouldn't be getting on your nerves if you would just follow that, because guess what, it's the lack of those three things that everyone is questioning you for!

"everyone" being darox and oman. ¬¬

And Ythill if I remember correctly. It saves us all trouble if people would just EXPLAIN themselves.

[crywolf20084]

cry - you are making a huge assumption if you think one player defending another means both are scum.

I can understand defending a person once or twice if you disagree with the attacker, but constant like its been? Like I said, I'd rather lynch Tommy vs. Tony

[crywolf20084]

9 is not a cincidence. sorry

[crywolf20084]

... however, this brings up some new ones. It is fine if you believe Tommy is more scummy for buddying up, but you are now assuming both scum?

You are correct in saying Tommy would be the lynch over Tony if this situation convinces you at least 1 of them are scum.

QFT. That's exactly what I think. No, I'm not assuming both are scum, fhq, but in the same breath, yes, it could be true for some stupid play by dumb scum.

[crywolf20084]

##unvote, vote: crywolf

.

Is there anything new to warrent this vote on myself? If so, please share.

[crywolf20084]

@Tony: Yeah, it may be weak...but at least we have something from him, not to defend the weak posting

[crywolf20084]

Great. Nobody's posted in almost a day. Beautiful.

[crywolf20084]

Just checking in. I see that nobody has commented on my PbPA... unless Oman's drunk double post counts.

I'm not all that sure that it does... Lets wait to see if he comes up with a sober post.

ANd in the way of a defence, I don't have much to say as I'm really busy writing a paper right now. Monday I'll probably will have a post.

[crywolf20084]

I'm voting for Tony because he is scum. I thought that was obvious.
I also thought it was obvious that I hadn't softclaimed. Because, you know, I never once hinted at something like 'I'm going to get you tonight' or 'I won't let you die' or 'I have proof of guilt' or anything along those lines.
What you interpret from my actions does not equal a softclaim from myself.

I'm sorry. You are right. I was really stretching calling this a case it was more a 'response'. My point still stands that we had to drag out the original reasoning from you while you basically ignored the pleas for you to do so. The posts you made after this 'response' was basically gunning on tony for things he said after you placed the vote.

My whole thing about Darox's responce was that it was delayed for so long, I just don't know if I could put any faith behind it.

[crywolf20084]

My whole thing about Darox's responce was that it was delayed for so long, I just don't know if I could put any faith behind it.

Says the girl who still hasn't responded to a single point of my case. It's not going away just because you ignore it.

What am I supposed to say? Basically everything you said was rhetorical.

[crywolf20084]

What am I supposed to say? Basically everything you said was rhetorical.

That doesn't cut it.

The votes are all over the place, it's time we put some pressure somewhere.

##unvote, vote: Crywolf

That is pretty hypocritical of you, because if I remember right, you refused to answer some questions. I said I have nothing to say because they all seemed rhetorical.

[crywolf20084]

There's no such thing as a rhetorical question here. Even if ythill was making accusations in form of questions, he clearly expects you to reply.

Yes there is such thing as rhetorical questions. It was a post by post anaylsis with rhetorical questions, or if you want to consider them not rhetorical then I would take them as questions set out of taking the opinions of others.

See like this:

This is pretty bad. Two of the three times that wolf mentioned her list, she was claiming to be working on it which suggests that she intends to share it when she is done. Now she cites it for the first time and claims that she’s been keeping this information close to her chest for (1) a long time and (2) no reason. This begs a ton of questions. Why would she promise a future list if she already had some of it? Why would she have claimed to have had it for a extensive amount of time when not long ago she was still working on it? Why would she keep it quiet when she was so intent on gaining others’ tacit information (option c) and decrying other players for not sharing reasoning (Darox and Tony)? None of this makes sense from a wolf-as-town perspective.

How would you respond to something like that if it were posed to you, Tony. Oh wait. You hardly responded to the strait forward questions.

[crywolf20084]

It should be easy. Where is your 'list'? Does it exist? Is this a rhetorical question?

Or is there no answers because he hit the nail on the head?

My list was over Tommy. I had started to notice Tommy's behavior right as it started and I wasn't sure when was a good time. I knew I didn't wanna do it in day one, but when Bionic noticed it too I felt it was time to point out the many other times it has happened.

[crywolf20084]

Hey still here.. I was workin on a post when my internet conked out and froze my comp up to no end. Its not at 100% yet but it will be after the cable comes in and gives me a new modem (i've had no luck with those things).

Post will be comming tomorow.

[crywolf20084]

Actually, considering our circumstances, I am requesting Crywolf claim in her next post as opposed to waiting for L-1. I would like a full claim with flavor to give us time to analyze.

I'm the doc? Yeah, so I've made some poor choices in my wording sometimes but truthfully i've done my damnedest to find the scum. Lynch me or whatever.

[crywolf20084]

Actually, considering our circumstances, I am requesting Crywolf claim in her next post as opposed to waiting for L-1. I would like a full claim with flavor to give us time to analyze.

I'm the doc? Yeah, so I've made some poor choices in my wording sometimes but truthfully i've done my damnedest to find the scum. Lynch me or whatever.

A claim with a question mark? Please include the flavor as was asked for in the original request. Name of character and brief, loose paraphrase of the description without quoting the mod.

Sorry about the question mark. It's just a typo. I'm the local doctor of the town and I'm known for once being a big shot doc in a fancy hospital but would rather work in the small neighborhood.

I protected Rash N1 because he seemed to be pretty productive and I wanted to see him last to the next day.

'Lynch me or whatever?' That doesn't sound like a doc.

I know there are a couple people pretty set in lynching me today, such as Ythill, that most likely won't be swayed.

[crywolf20084]

Other conflicts are with the claim of crashing computers when here activity elsewhere was not effected.

I wanted to spend sometime on this page after I did all the other stuff I'm active in, I wanted to focus on this for some time and then the my stupid internet went out for the second day in a row. It's fixed now.

[crywolf20084]

unvote
Vote: darox

Self-explanatory.

Umm..I don't think so.

unvote Vote: TonyMontana.

You've been everywhere with your votes and your posts, and clearly my vote on Tommy wasn't going anywhere, at least now it's on somebody I beleive to be scummy.

[crywolf20084]

1. She claimed with a question mark (typo? You have to hit shift to make a question mark. A comma or slash would have been believable as a typo.)

I type too fast for my own good. I often am already shifting for the next sentance before I place down my punctuation.

[crywolf20084]

Post coming early tomorrw. ..well later today cuz it's 1AM here and I just got off work.

[crywolf20084]

I protected Rash N1 because he seemed to be pretty productive and I wanted to see him last to the next day.

Could you elaborate a little more on your decision here. Rash didn't stand out to me as super productive on D1 and I thought a few people called him out as being unproductive.

Further, could you explain your thoughts on Iamusername and your opinion of him during day 1.

Yes, Rash's posts were few and far between, but I found most of them helpful and to the point. I was putting a little bit of faith in him that he would show up in D2 and do a bit more than what he did in D1, which happened in the begining and it lulled like almost everybody else.

As for User, I didn't see the scum targeting him at all. Yeah, I didn't believe the claim, yes, but I thought Rash was a more useful to the town than User was based on the information I found useful.

[crywolf20084]

Claim, Darox.

I'm not voting Tony. I think the case against Darox is far better. Ythill sums up his day two play nicely; his day one play was nothing but opportunistic bandwagonning.

You're funny.

This isn't funny Darox. We are in the last moments of the day.

Oh and, I'm starting to think Jester with Darox and his stupid moves here.

[crywolf20084]

Claim, Darox.

I'm not voting Tony. I think the case against Darox is far better. Ythill sums up his day two play nicely; his day one play was nothing but opportunistic bandwagonning.

You're funny.

This isn't funny Darox. We are in the last moments of the day.

Oh and, I'm starting to think Jester with Darox and his stupid moves here.

You're really funny.

Tony is still the best lynch.

I don't think so anymore.

Vote: Darox

[crywolf20084]

Daroxclaim is not a good idea because daroxscum does not exist.

This is probably too late, but what the hell do you mean? (With two hrs left to go.)

[crywolf20084]

@Yhtill's and Bionic's question: I protected Rash again. It was between him and Fhq. I felt that his day play in D2 was even better than it was on D1. I don't like protecting somebody two nights in a row, but I made an exception because the way that Rash has posed his questions have never given me the inkling of worry about his allignment. And as a note, I'm surpirsed I was NKed because of my claim.

@Rash: You're last statement worries me, though. I don't know what you're trying to get at.

As for the Popcorn thing, I'll agree to it if everybody else does.

[crywolf20084]

Hey, sorry I wasn't on last night. Got called into work. Post comin' tomorrow morning.

[crywolf20084]

I'm gonna do the same as Ythill. I have some thoughts on paper waiting until the popcorn is done.

[crywolf20084]

I can tell you, I tracked pickmegenoius last night. No target, of course, but I did get a front row view of his death.

I'll save my N1 for after the popcorn.

Whoever didn't like this, I agree.

[crywolf20084]

EDIT: Whoever didn't like this, I agree with them.

[crywolf20084]

I'm in class now but i'll be going to the library in an hr or so... Post comin' then.

[crywolf20084]

M4yhem, did you get any information about elias' nightchoice on N1?

Strange that the vig did not make a choice on night 1?

I find both these comments a little odd. I think it is pretty obvious there was no vigilante kill on n1 (he had already mentioned it anyway).

I also would not expect a vigilante to kill every night - and typically not on n1.

I agree with this statment a lot. N1 is deffinately not the night to be killing somebody as a Vig.

crywolf: big city doc
m4yhem: florist/vig
Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
TonyMontana: Ice Cream Man / tracker
Oman: Librarian / watcher
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla
fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla
Ythill: Postman / vanilla

My thoughts on the claimed power roles.

M4yhem: I'm inclined to believe it, but i really don't have any other sort of a read on him.

Tony: Now I don't believe him. Mostly because I don't think he ever answered the question who was your targe N1.

Oman: I'm not sure about him, and it'll be hard if he does get replaced because of the role and the volume of information we have in this game right now.

As for the vanilla's I think we are very vanilla heavy, and that is where I would like to start looking for the scum. Much easier to hide as a vanilla than a power role, IMO.

The vanilla at the top of my list is Fhq. There's been something about him in the last couple posts that have screamed, I'm hiding something from you. Don't know what yet, but I would love to find out. Thus,

Vote: Fhqwhgads

[crywolf20084]

I will be replaced, regardless.

I forgot to mention that it's a shame.

[crywolf20084]

Whoa... Okay just was gonna post but then I saw this intense discussion between bionic and ythill so i'll be posting tomorrow when I have more than 4 hrs of sleep.

[crywolf20084]

Whoa... Okay just was gonna post but then I saw this intense discussion between bionic and ythill so i'll be posting tomorrow when I have more than 4 hrs of sleep.

Heaven forbid more than 2 people have a discussion.

I was more or less getting at information overload.

[crywolf20084]

My only thing that I really want answered is for Tony.

What did you exactly mean when you said I had a front row of Peg's death.

[crywolf20084]

My only thing that I really want answered is for Tony.

What did you exactly mean when you said I had a front row of Peg's death.

I said *I* had front row of peg's death.

That's what I meant. that **You** had a front row. Still answer the question. I would like to know more about it.

[crywolf20084]

Imeant that i tracked him ad I got a very flacored de scirption og his attack before the relevcant- answer that je target no one

Nice. I got through like half of that post before I was throughly confused.

[crywolf20084]

If it was "very flavoured" maybe you should share it. I wouldn't recommend quoting, but you could paraphrase for us. There might be clues.

That is what I would like. Bringing it up would not be good if it's avoided.

[crywolf20084]

Right now there seems to be just idle chatter going on.

Well it may be idle chatter here, but I keep thinking about Tony's claim. I just don't believe it. Mainly because he's been asked several times to give some of the supposed "Flavor" and hasn't.

Vote: TonyMontana

Maybe this well help get some of the delayed flavor out.

[crywolf20084]

I can tell you, I tracked pickmegenoius last night. No target, of course, but I did get a front row view of his death.

I don't like this at all. Why would you track PEG? You never mentioned being suspicious of him. Why wouldn't you track Darox or better yet crywolf? If you are a tracker, you were probably the best shot at getting any sort of definitive answer about her (though we would have to trust you and your results). You track her and if she didn't visit Rash, you would know she was lying.

You had asked here for some reasoning, as did Rash. I believe he promised it after the popcorn, and never gave it. When I brought it up again, he felt no need to comment on it again.

Besides, i just have a really bad feeling about his claim, as in i just don't believe it.

[crywolf20084]

So I read that, but I still would like some flavor.

[crywolf20084]

Thank you. I still don't believe your claim nessicarily, but thank you for the flavor.

[crywolf20084]

@cry, while you might find trouble believe Tony's claim, we have to take into account the chances of a tracker/watcher pair. If you don't believe Tony's claim, do you believe Oman's? If Tony is lying, it means that both him and Oman are probably not telling the truth.

Not really, but throughout the game i have not had much of a read on him. But because I really doubt Tony's claim, i'm inclined to disbelieve Oman's. My mind could go either way though when his replacement comes around.

[crywolf20084]

3 days. Let's take some chances and make some votes. A timid town is a losing town.

I wouldn't be upset lynching a 'nilla. I agree that at least one of the scum has to be hiding as a 'nilla.

[crywolf20084]

I agree with Bionic's statement.

[crywolf20084]

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla
fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla
Ythill: Postman / vanilla

So this is the list of nilla's and my thought's on them.

Rash- Clearly I've though he's pro-town this whole game because I have protected him both nights. To me I think is the least likely to come up scum. So...

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla

bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla
fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla
Ythill: Postman / vanilla

Next up is Bionic. The only reason why I can think of wanting to lynch Bionic is an OMGUS for the persitant attacks on me. I can say the same thing about Ythill, though with a bit of a twist. Though is flavor seems to be okay, I'm more worried that he's trying to use me as a scapegoat. I must say he's been persistant, and hasn't varied much from me, but that might just be it. With that:

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla

fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla

Ythill: Postman / vanilla

As for Fhq, his posts have been sketchy... And I'm not sure if we'd hit anything if we lynched him or not.

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla

fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla

Ythill: Postman / vanilla

Italized is a maybe. Bolded is who I will probably go with, because I know I won't be able to convince the rest of you to go with my gut feeling on Tony.

Thoughts??

[crywolf20084]

Unvote/Vote: Ythill.

After some thinking, I think we'd get the most of this vanilla lynch, but I could revert to fhq as stated before.

[crywolf20084]

Elias replaces M4yhem who replaced Elias.

Well, that's interesting.

[crywolf20084]

Deadline extended to 10/30 at midnight east coast US time and not a moment longer.

(Someone remind to share some thoughts on deadlines post game).

Thankies!

[crywolf20084]

nobody seems to be taking advantage of this extension.

I would like to consider going back to a plan of no lynching to bring about lylo tomorrow (vig does not shoot).

Not sure about the No lynch, but I really wanna hear from Ellias to get his thoughts on what's happened since he's been gone.

[crywolf20084]

workin on it...

Thanks

Elias

M4yhem

Elias

M4yhem

Elias

M4yhem

Elias!

Thanks and woooow Bionic...

[crywolf20084]

I think bionic may be bored

Rampant lurking in all my games has me entertaining myself anyway possible.

QFT.

[crywolf20084]

Elias.. Speed would be nice....

[crywolf20084]

Almost done. I'm in several games.

Thank You, seeing as how we're almost into our extension.

[crywolf20084]

I'd rather us lynch today, because the Vig was a One Shot. We don't have many more chances to lynch scum, and where my vote is on Ythill, I think is pretty good.

Though, whomever said that voting for a no lynch is a joke because we asked for the extentsion. I wouldnt be surprised if we had a no lynch, but i'd rather wait until the dead line is done.

[crywolf20084]

[quote="Ythill"]Question: if you really are a protective role, why were you not suspicious of Oman's claim? A doc and watcher together is improbable. [/quote

I am, and same goes for Tony's claim. Tony is the one i'd rather lynch though. I'm curious to see if DR will change the claim.

[crywolf20084]

I would assume that at least one of Wolf and Oman are telling the truth.

What happens if you lynch me, and find out I'm telling the truth? What would that do to your claim with your logic?

unvote/Vote: TonyMontana

If Oman's claim is false, well DR's claim is false, what would happen to you? Tracker is something I've never seen without the Watcher.

[crywolf20084]

Add-on: I repeat again, I'm very curious to see what DR says about Oman's claim, and if he changes it or not.

[crywolf20084]

I was just reverting my vote back to you. I really don't believe your claim, and I don't believe Oman's. But i'm not going to vote DR until he's posted with some thoughts.

[crywolf20084]

Mmmm.... *Waits for DR's report semi-patiently*

[crywolf20084]

Okay, DR this is getting a little obnoxious. I was happy with my vote until this long delay has happened.

[crywolf20084]

I'm really not. I've had my own arguments that are seperate than yours, and besides, I don't think you're considering putting it on DR for pressure, are you?

[crywolf20084]

M4yhem, did you get any information about elias' nightchoice on N1?

Strange that the vig did not make a choice on night 1?

I find both these comments a little odd. I think it is pretty obvious there was no vigilante kill on n1 (he had already mentioned it anyway).

I also would not expect a vigilante to kill every night - and typically not on n1.

I agree with this statment a lot. N1 is deffinately not the night to be killing somebody as a Vig.

crywolf: big city doc
m4yhem: florist/vig
Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
TonyMontana: Ice Cream Man / tracker
Oman: Librarian / watcher
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla
fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla
Ythill: Postman / vanilla

My thoughts on the claimed power roles.

M4yhem: I'm inclined to believe it, but i really don't have any other sort of a read on him.

Tony: Now I don't believe him. Mostly because I don't think he ever answered the question who was your targe N1.

Oman: I'm not sure about him, and it'll be hard if he does get replaced because of the role and the volume of information we have in this game right now.

As for the vanilla's I think we are very vanilla heavy, and that is where I would like to start looking for the scum. Much easier to hide as a vanilla than a power role, IMO.

The vanilla at the top of my list is Fhq. There's been something about him in the last couple posts that have screamed, I'm hiding something from you. Don't know what yet, but I would love to find out. Thus,

Vote: Fhqwhgads

My only thing that I really want answered is for Tony.

What did you exactly mean when you said I had a front row of Peg's death.

I said *I* had front row of peg's death.

That's what I meant. that **You** had a front row. Still answer the question. I would like to know more about it.

Right now there seems to be just idle chatter going on.

Well it may be idle chatter here, but I keep thinking about Tony's claim. I just don't believe it. Mainly because he's been asked several times to give some of the supposed "Flavor" and hasn't.

Vote: TonyMontana

Maybe this well help get some of the delayed flavor out.

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla
fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla
Ythill: Postman / vanilla

So this is the list of nilla's and my thought's on them.

Rash- Clearly I've though he's pro-town this whole game because I have protected him both nights. To me I think is the least likely to come up scum. So...

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla

bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla
fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla
Ythill: Postman / vanilla

Next up is Bionic. The only reason why I can think of wanting to lynch Bionic is an OMGUS for the persitant attacks on me. I can say the same thing about Ythill, though with a bit of a twist. Though is flavor seems to be okay, I'm more worried that he's trying to use me as a scapegoat. I must say he's been persistant, and hasn't varied much from me, but that might just be it. With that:

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla

fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla

Ythill: Postman / vanilla

As for Fhq, his posts have been sketchy... And I'm not sure if we'd hit anything if we lynched him or not.

Rashiminos: crossing guard / vanilla
bionicchop2: Game Shop Owner / vanilla

fhqwhgads: Newspaper Editor / vanilla

Ythill: Postman / vanilla

Italized is a maybe. Bolded is who I will probably go with, because I know I won't be able to convince the rest of you to go with my gut feeling on Tony.

Thoughts??

Unvote/Vote: Ythill.

After some thinking, I think we'd get the most of this vanilla lynch, but I could revert to fhq as stated before.

And I think this is the third person I voted today…I really don’t know why I’m so indecisive today….

I would assume that at least one of Wolf and Oman are telling the truth.

What happens if you lynch me, and find out I'm telling the truth? What would that do to your claim with your logic?

unvote/Vote: TonyMontana

If Oman's claim is false, well DR's claim is false, what would happen to you? Tracker is something I've never seen without the Watcher.

Right here I was so dually corrected about how Tracker can be found as an independent role. Though I still don’t believe Tony’s claim.

I think that's my posting history for this day.

[crywolf20084]

Edit: Yeah I didn't miss anything. THis is my posting history for today.

[crywolf20084]

cry - I know your vote is on Tony, but if you are town you should realize that Tony is town by not hammering you (which ends the game if you are town) and you can feel confident we have a tracker.

Unvote

Hey DR, can you give us those people that Oman watched, because I don't remember him ever doing so.

[crywolf20084]

***deadline is 11 hours and 14 minutes from this post***

thanks i was wondering exactly when it was.

[crywolf20084]

Shhh??? What? The deadline will come if we announce how much longer we have or not.

[crywolf20084]

Shhh??? What? The deadline will come if we announce how much longer we have or not.

I think he is hoping we can get our no lynch through deadline ignorance (he is voting nl along with me).

Really all that needs to be done is convince Elias it is not the best course of action to lynch here today. He has suggested he will lynch at deadline.

It may just come down to that. I do believe that the scum is on my bandwagon, otherwise we'd have a hammer by now.

[crywolf20084]

Maybe I was just picked on that I was an easy scapegoat. I wish I would've never protected him.

[crywolf20084]

4 Hours and 10 minutes and no hammer. Hm. guess all the scum is on me, eh?

[crywolf20084]

1 hr and 20 minutes to go.. Ya guys just may get your No lynch. I'd rather force it than vote for it though..

[crywolf20084]

Why have me vote for it when its now less than an hour away?

[crywolf20084]

EDIT: It as in the No-Lynch

Add on:

Why are you really pressing for a hammer? Everyone has had multiple times to try and hammer me, and I don't think you'll get that quick of a change of heart from any of them.

[crywolf20084]

My reason is that it made no sense, seeing as how we were gonna get a no lynch with or without my vote.

[crywolf20084]

Could you point to the part where he noted even being mildly suspicious of Crywolf?

I thought I could but, looking back, it seems you're right. I must've confused something Elias said as attributed to DR when they replaced in at the same time. Let me see if I can find it...

I think Bionic is right. He voted for me for the hell of it without much explination, then he didn't respond to the question i posed earlier today about who Oman's targets were.

[crywolf20084]

Vote: Dead Rikimaru

for failure to answer any of my pleads for a summary of his thoughts, and for not disclosing who his watcher targets were.

[crywolf20084]

Feel as you may, I can do as I like, and what happens when DR turns up scum?? Will you loose a little bit of your attitude on me?

[crywolf20084]

I wouldn't expect DR coming up scum to competely clear me, no. To expect it would is practically insane, but I was just making sure that you'd cut me a little bit more slack there.

[crywolf20084]

Hey, Ythill...we're over the deadline by an hour and 9 minutes if I read it right.

[crywolf20084]

Yep. The deadline was at midnight EST. It's now 1:10AM EST, so we're already overextending our extention that proved to be useless with the slow catch-ups with the replacements.

[crywolf20084]

Hey, Ythill...we're over the deadline by an hour and 9 minutes if I read it right.

Oh, right. It was eastern time, wasn't it? I wonder if votes after deadline count.

I would think they would because the Mod hasn't posted yet.

[crywolf20084]

It was between Bionic and Elias. But I protected Elias just incase he was lying about being a one shot vig to keep the scum away from him.

[crywolf20084]

I'm gonna give DR til tomorrow, than I'm voting. I'm sick of waiting.

[crywolf20084]

I hate to make posts saying "I'm catching up and will post later", normally I just catch up and post, but yesterday I was reading the game and suddenly MS stopped loading for me for the rest of the day. Other sites, incluiding Grey Lab, were working fine.
I don't know if this happened just to me but later today (if everything goes well) I will finally "join" the game and the wait will be worth it.

So we have Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and today's now sunday, I'll give him most of today and I'm voting.

As for scum buddies, not sure, but Fhq is kinda in the lurking mode, and has yet to comment about DR not posting today.

[crywolf20084]

Vote: DR

I gave you all day.

[crywolf20084]

Every time I have any conversation with you that extends beyond 3 replies, I feel like banging my face into a wall since you jump to ridiculous conclusions. Maybe it is the lack of anything else going on in the game.

You didn't need to post this to let everyone else knwo this is the way you feel. It's pretty readable in every post.

And Ythill: I know you want me lynched and all, but I

cannot

believe someone who is pretty damn sure one person is scum, DR, would jump off just because his next suspect, me, gave a little bit more pressure under my terms.

[crywolf20084]

And Ythill: I know you want me lynched and all, but I cannot believe someone who is pretty damn sure one person is scum, DR, would jump off just because his next suspect, me, gave a little bit more pressure under my terms.

You think you're my

second

suspect? That's very, very funny.

Fine. Other suspect. It really doesn't matter either way because DR is really looking good.

[crywolf20084]

EBWOP:

Is really looking good for today's lynch.

is what i meant to say

[crywolf20084]

Ythill removed a pressure vote when wolf-scum followed him onto the wagon. What difference does LYLO make in this scenario? Explain how I would benefit from my action as scum.

I didn't

follow

you. Yes I voted after you, but I gave my own terms, and DR did not reply within my terms so I voted. My vote was seperate from yours. I did NOT vote just cuz you did.

Major FOS: Ythill

.

[crywolf20084]

@wolf: All I meant by "follow" was that you voted him after I did.

Yeah I got that. Under my terms. I did not vote him purly because you did.

[crywolf20084]

EBWOP: *purely

[crywolf20084]

@wolf: All I meant by "follow" was that you voted him after I did.

Yeah I got that.

If you understood what I meant, then why did you twist my words to make it sound like I meant something different?

Because you're twisting mine, or my actions rather.

[crywolf20084]

-grumble- Thanks for showing up, even though my mind is pretty set on you.

[crywolf20084]

Wolf, answer my question.

Sorry, missed it.

I thought you were talking about my reasoning becuase of this statement:

It does matter, pertaining to what you said. Yes, DR looks quite scummy but, if only one of you two is scum, I pick you. There is little reason for you to bus at this point, so I'm not staying on any wagons with you.

Maybe I read a little too far into it, but I thought you were talking about my reasoning.

[crywolf20084]

3 posts and still nothing about last night...

I had similar thoughts.

Looking at your posting history, and giving us the links to them seems quiet a bit like stalling to me.

[crywolf20084]

Why did you vote then unvote?

[crywolf20084]

Doublepost..Some thing caught my eye.

If I'm not finished until deadline (I will) simply lynch me.

I do

not

like this statement at all.

[crywolf20084]

Why did you vote then unvote?

Do you think it was scummy for me to do it?

I have my reasons for what I did. I do want to vote DR and I would love to pressure him with L-2, but I don't feel safe leaving it there for any extended period of time.

Not scummy, just kinda think you took the pressure away as soon as you applied it, which I kinda find soft...and weak.

[crywolf20084]

At least you agree.

And I do agree that the vanilla's are where the scum is hiding. I can easily see Ythill, and would've voted for him if I was not so cofident in my vote on DR.

@DR: Even though my vote is already on you, I would love to see some answers too.

[crywolf20084]

This is bullshit. He said if he didn't get what he wanted said tonight, we'll have to wait until monday. MONDAY. May I note that monday is the 17th, a day before the deadline???

[crywolf20084]

can we NOT force a lynch 3 days before deadline?

...I am quickly warming to a DR lynch. Post your results within 24 hours or die.

More than 24 hours has passed.

unvote; vote: Dead Rikimaru

HE HAS CONNECTION PROBLEMS. He has legitimate connection problems and is serving as a mod in one game and a back up mod in mine. Additionally, he has work (i cant say if thats legit or not). However, lynching him when you can just give him 3 more days is plain STUPID.

He could've saved those couple posts he got, spewing nothing but utter bullshit that does not pertain to the game, and posted something that is helpful!

[crywolf20084]

Edit: ....couple posts he got,

instead of

spewing nothing but utter bullshit ....

[crywolf20084]

mod

repeating request for deadline extension since Ythill and Rash had a quote-war explosion and I don't want my request lost.

I second the request for the extension, and am quiet amused with these quote wars....

[crywolf20084]

Last Night, I watched

crywolf again.
I would have preferred to watch Elias, but after using his one shot vig he was like another Vanilla, so I decided to watch the claimed doc again.

She was tageted by

fhqwhgads.
The flavor says something about him reading a Nursery tales book to crywolf.
The fact alone that fhqwhgads claimed vanilla is reason enough to vote him, since it's obviously a lie. So:

vote : fhqwhgads

Umm..fhq can I--we--have explination?

[crywolf20084]

Thanks, Mod.

[crywolf20084]

unvote

I want to hear what fhq has to say before I place my final vote for the day.

[crywolf20084]

If it is not too much to ask, I'd like to hear Elias and Crywolf's take on what's happening.

Workin on a post right now.

[crywolf20084]

First off, I am not going to automatically going believe DR, but I must say, that I never once got a bad vibe from Oman. The only thing Oman did that made me worry was not releasing who he had targeted to watch at night.

DR is lying.

The reason I voted crywolf

By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.

Sure,

or you were just bussing

, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

Agree with the bolded statement above to a point. I’m not sure if I’m ready to do a 180 with my opinion on DR.

The reason to avoid a no lynch

Is that in most cases it favors mafia.
If town can't decide between two players and choose a no-lynch mafia will simply kill a player that is not in danger of being lynched. The next day town will have the same doubt about the same players and will have one townie less.
The only time I agreed to a no-lynch it was a 2 townies+1 SK+1 Mafia situation in hopes scum would kill each other.

Actually, I agree with you here. I've been arguing this point since our first no-lynch. Probably your bit of 'looking townie' to add more weight to the BS claim to follow.

I agree with this as well. I would much rather not have a no lynch today as well as the ‘looking townie’ part. Not sure if I buy it yet.

Oman watched

Night 1 - Ythill
Night 2 - crywolf

Last Night, I watched

crywolf again.
I would have preferred to watch Elias, but after using his one shot vig he was like another Vanilla, so I decided to watch the claimed doc again.

Nice backstory. Care to add some flavour Oman got on his results? You know, just to make this story fit better?

This kinda bugs me because you ask for flavor where clearly, right below there is some. I would like to have a more exact wording of the flavor, though.

She was tageted by

fhqwhgads.

The flavor says something about him reading a Nursery tales book to crywolf.

The fact alone that fhqwhgads claimed vanilla is reason enough to vote him, since it's obviously a lie. So:
vote : fhqwhgads

(Bolding mine)
Lies.

Could you please elaborate more on the flavour other than 'something about'?

Dunno about the ‘lie’ part yet. I would love another post from DR to hear more of the flavor.

BTW,

FOS : Ythill

After I said I would not be able to use internet during the weekend (only on Monday at work) you gave me a 24h warning

KNOWING I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO POST

. You, sure is a great candidate for tomorrow's lynch.

Wow, setting up tomorrow's lynch as well. Nice one. But if your plan works, there won't be a lynch tomorrow.

Fine, enough with the rhetoric. Firstly, apologies to Ythill. This has almost cleared you 100% in my books. It also makes me wonder about rash's alignment, but that's an argument for tomorrow (if we have a tomorrow).

First off, I understand why DR’s complaining of Ythill’s vote. Though I wish that DR would’ve used his first couple posts, that were content-less, for something better.

Look, I'm not going to try and give a soppy appeal to anyone not to vote me. You just shouldn't. Because town will lose. Bionic, you are either wrong (or lying).

I've just got this to say. Why wait until now? DR knew we were waiting for his investigation. He even mentioned it, and posted more than once afterwards without saying anything. If I was so obviously guilty, why wait until right before the deadline?

I have been the one complaining about votes in LYLO. I've been the one saying we should vote, rather than no-lynch. My vote is easy.

vote: Dead Rikimaru

. Town's fate is now in the rest of your hands.

It is 00:07 now in my time zone, so I probably won't be here to answer any questions to follow. But do ask, with the deadline extension (thanks mod!) I'll sure have time to answer your concerns. I won't wait until deadline to sow confusion.

I do believe that DR’s timing was kinda poor, and that it could’ve been relayed a lot quicker, BUT I do not believe everything you’ve said. It’s understandable why you have a defensive wall up right now, because whether or not DR is scum, it was one hell of an attack on you.

I have voted you previously, as a good vanilla to lynch, and I am not afraid to vote again, but I will hold off on it until just before I leave for the movies tomorrow. Just so everyone knows, my vote is for fhq.

[crywolf20084]

Cry,

Uhm, thanks, I think. At least you are posting. Hoping for more positive results from the rest though. Ok, one technical thing:

DR is lying.
Dead Rikimaru wrote:

The reason I voted crywolf
By the time I voted crywolf I had not finished catching up and I didn't know she had claimed doc.
I just wanted to avoid the no-lynch (see below) and voted the player closer to get lynched.


Sure,

or you were just bussing

, because you thought crywolf would be the inevitable lynch. Or maybe Cry is still telling the truth, and you were on your way to an easy win.

Agree with the bolded statement above to a point. I’m not sure if I’m ready to do a 180 with my opinion on DR.

I think you misunderstand what bussing means. I was saying that if you were scum, he was jumping on your wagon to look townie. For you to agree to that is admitting you are scum, which I am sure you did not mean.

No that is not what I meant. Thanks for understanding what I did.

All I can implore you is to please consider DR's posts and the amount of time he's had to post what he did. I believe he chose his timing deliberately. Unfortunately, Oman was playing pretty bulletproof, so there's not much I can do to convince you from his posts, other than him also delaying his results without proper reasoning.

I know that he has had plenty of time to come up with this, and I may go back after I have a bit more time to go back through and do a proper re-read, rather than a quick post while i'm studying, like I did just there.

[crywolf20084]

Edit: Thats for understand what I meant to say

that makes a little bit more sense....

[crywolf20084]

@ wolf: I thought you were convinced that DR was scum. Are you really anxious to believe what he says?

No, but I was looking at Fhq previously, and DR's claim, though it may be bogus, it just adds to it.

[crywolf20084]

It also could be a ploy by DR-scum to point a finger at someone new to get the votes off his back. A set-up that would benifit DR-scum only. Doesn't matter if Fhq is town or not.

[crywolf20084]

It also could be a ploy by DR-scum to point a finger at someone new to get the votes off his back. A set-up that would benifit DR-scum only. Doesn't matter if Fhq is town or not.

Isn't it easier for him to get votes off him and onto you since you were already the alternate lynch?

Also remember that I could have hammered you yesterday and ended the game

(if you think I am scum trying to mislead you)

.

@the bolded part: no I do not think you are scum trying to mislead me and I know that you could've hammered me yesterday and I am greatful I have not been fully taken advantage of by the scum.

I was just trying to come up with another reason why DR would do soemthing like he did.

[crywolf20084]

I was hoping to wait a little bit longer but my friend called and we're going out to eat prior to going to go see Twilight, I have done my final review and have seen the things about Oman that I failed to notice, and I do find scummy, and combine with that the claim, which I now believe is false, I am going to:

Vote: Dead Rikimaru.

[crywolf20084]

I was reading all day today. Sorry. I had basically wrapped up my thoughts for today(Day four) yesterday (the 19th). And in my reading I found that I didn't like him. I'll explain why i did this in D5, and if he does turn up town(which I highly doubt), I'll post my reasonings in post-game. Now I must actually go.

[crywolf20084]

So I guess the first question I'll ask today is this: Who did crywolf protect, and why was this person chosen over Elias?

Bionic. I didn't want to see him gone seeing as how he's been the most helpful in finding the damned scum, even though he wasn't on DR's kill.

[crywolf20084]

I swear to god everytime I went to post in any of my games something else came up and this just got shoved to the back burner.

As for why I thought Bionic was town. He just struck me that way from the begining. Usually when people are vocal like he was through out the game, I get a bad read from them, but this was different. And besides, I didn't like Elias's continuing absence in D4.

Look I realized that I could've prevented a now obvious kill, and I hate being the Doc in games because I do pick the wrong person, a lot.

_{And besides...I have a looming feeling that Bionic might have a better role than just a vanilla...}

[crywolf20084]

I swear to god everytime I went to post in any of my games something else came up and this just got shoved to the back burner.

@fhq:

The above quote seems true for this game, but not so much for others.

Yes it is true. One game was easy quick posts _{that's in a stalling pattern}, and I was working on one other, and then this one and two others have just been put on the back burner because my life has been anything but normal, and thank god, it's getting back to normal.

[crywolf20084]

Yay! Good Work Buddy

[crywolf20084]

><! Shaddup! I know I shoulda died so many times!

And just about everything I did, I though about it AFTER the fact and realized that I could've done something better.

[crywolf20084]

><! Shaddup! I know I shoulda died so many times!

And just about everything I did, I though about it AFTER the fact and realized that I could've done something better.

I felt your sticking around was worth a title nom.

I nommed Ythill for Best Performance: Mafia.

If I can think of any others (like anyone who figured it all out or something- I gotta skim back) I'll nom them as well.

Yay!! Thank you!!

[crywolf20084]

Even though it's clear in the mafia-chat, I'll explain that D4 debacle. I was checking in constantly, waiting for wolf to vote fhq so that I could hammer. I'd been rallying so hard against DR that it was too risky for me to be the third vote on fhq. If bionic checked in before wolf, it might have cost us the game.

Like I said, hindsight is a bitch. Each and EVERY time I did something, including with "protecting" Tony, which would have been an easy lynch on Fhq. And the non vote of fhq, as well as countless other things where I could've had this game won sooner.
Disclaimer: I ALWAYS hate being a doctor, because I tend to make stupid mistakes.

Wolf, your performance was truly astonishing. I don't know how you lived as long as you did, but I've got to tip my hat to you. That "annoying fly" strategy worked

very

well. I think you've been my most useful buddy ever.

Yes, well you were an effective Annoying Fly.