Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[SpyreX]

We will not stand here and be made fun of you sons of childish goathearders. We will raise our hands HIGH and bellow down laughing-foolery at your mother's feet.

And now for something completely different...

Did you know? Douglas Adams actually has writing credits for Flying Circus?

BE AMAZED

[SpyreX]

We may all use the lines! Together!

Unless you are too silly

THEN BURN THE WITCHES.


And now for something completely different...

Yep, The Hitchhikers Douglas Adams - he was even in an episode of the last season too.

The more you know....

[SpyreX]

GENTLMEN

I HAVE FOUND THE ANSWERS

We are here hunting for those that are far too silly. Whom here, of course, causes silliness?

You know it as well as I

Vote Mirth[\b]

There will be no silliness on my watch you eldeberry scrounger

[SpyreX]

GOD, Good work SpyreX. I should just launch myself out of a catapult.

Vote: Mirth

[SpyreX]

Unless they are space frogs.

Vote Mirth[\b]

Mirth leads to silliness! WE CAN NOT DON THINE HATS

I did this once, but NOOO the game hadn't started yet. What a silly reason for my vote not to count.

FoS Shafted[\b]

[SpyreX]

Wow. Lets try that again, smart like.

Vote Mirth

FoS Shafted

[SpyreX]

I notice Shafted hasn't responded to my FoS... SOMETHING TO HIDE MAYBE

[SpyreX]

Imagine might be on to something

Unvote[\b]

Vote Bruce[\b]

I dont trust Bruce, one bit. He's far too silly for my likes.

[SpyreX]

Now is definitely not the time for roleclaims I'd say.

Although, with monty python... I have no way to ever tell if we're out of the joking stages.

Forward men, to the cave of AUuuuuhhgghhhhh

[SpyreX]

He probably gets some kinda prizes or we explode. Its python, afterall.

[SpyreX]

Oou dont you come in here and play the I'm confused card, that'll get you in los troubales.

[SpyreX]

I haven't played in a lot of games yet, but I've read quite a few. Its not enough to build a case on, but in general "I'm soo confused" is a scum-maneuver. Especially in context of random voting.

THIS ONE IS FOR REAL

Unvote

Vote Chenshi

[SpyreX]

I dont know what I think about the whole breadcrumbing at al... it really seems like an odd move this early.

I still like my honest, non-silly, vote. Its FAR too easy to use "I'm confused" in this setup and I dont like it one bit.

[SpyreX]

I dont see The Internet's "rolefishing" as honest rolefishing. IM came out and said "I've got a role! Wooo" so, of course, people are going to look for it.

The thing is faking a claim, even believable, would give everyone else a chance to look for discrepancies. It'd have to be a good a fakeclaim to be 100%.

I have to think that IM is doing this as part of a PR or something.... otherwise, if you asked me with a gun to my head which one of the two was scum I'd lean towards Ironman.

[SpyreX]

I've been thinking about the Iron Man issue.

Now, its obvious the town isn't going to let it drop unless we get a full disclosure. At this point, what purpose does it serve to keep hiding that information when it is apparent that, one way or another, the town is going to need it?

You cant dangle information and not give it.

So, Iron Man, please just spit out whatever it is you're trying to have us hunt. It is becoming too large of a distraction and we should start moving forward and looking for scum.

[SpyreX]

In general, I do not like rolefishing, at all. Let the town use their roles to what they feel is going to help the most. Now, if you have some method to FIND roles without alerting everyone then, yes, it would help the town (assuming both sides involved were town, )

The ONLY time I can understand rolefishing is in an open setup where, by knowing a role, you can eliminate options. But, thats about it.

As for this situation, I dont like The Internet backing away from what is going to be the OBVIOUS next question:

Ironman, what, if anything, do you do as the Announcer?

If someone is going to claim, it bothers me when they just dont claim it all. Again, once you've hinted, the town is going to need to know before we move ahead.

But, SpyreX, you said that you dont like rolefishing??
I dont, but if the net has been cast by the fish themselves, you have to pull it up.

I am anxious to see what hte Bruce vote does (I was the AWESOME MAN who cant use tags real good)

[SpyreX]

I expected to get a vote for that, honestly, more than one.

Now, under normal circumstances, I'd never even ask. However, when someone does "I'm role X, guess what X is." and I know, at that point, they're going to just have to claim...they better just claim fully.

[SpyreX]

Chenshi,

You've really got to post some content. I'm glad you're posting, but you're still just acting like "I'm confused" and not really doing much. It's why I've got my vote on you and its why its staying there for now.

[SpyreX]

I'm not into the whole WIFOM, but the minute he started playing "guess my role" it implied something was there. It'd be better to know what it IS then to just let it slide.

But, thats just me apparently.

[SpyreX]

Lurkers aren't for day one. Scummy players are.

I'm gonna meta some and chen sure doesn't seem this confused in the other game I've seen him in. I've done the "I'm soo confused" as scum on other sites before as well.

Not likin it, one bit.

Also, just so that no one things I've dropped it, I personally want to know what IM's full claim is. If I am outvoted by the town I'll drop it...for now.

[SpyreX]

Python or not, there is still room to hunt. Hell, you're totally shaping up on your post restriction to the point I barely notice it anymore.

Yes, its going to be a little more Zany in here, but it isn't any more "confusing" than other games.

[SpyreX]

I think that would go against the whole concept of the Bruce, adding in a level of confusion that would make Bruce become not-Bruce, thereby destroying our fabric of lives.

Bruce, the real Bruce, is right. DBE needs to step up some.

However, confused Bruce is still acting far too confused for me to like it.

(whew, thats weird)

[SpyreX]

Yes, that Bruce really needs to step up, but that Bruce really plays like that regardless.

[SpyreX]

Chen,

You better post some content, I swear. I can't believe after those responses I'm taking my vote OFF you.

Luigi,

You faked a PR for no reason, provided no content (but responded quickly enough to show you're not lurking) in your 6 posts and, mostly, have been parroting.

DBL,

Are you trying to say you have a time based PR or a content based one? Either one is hard to beileve.

Anywho,

Unvote
Vote Luigi Gangsta
FoS Chensi

[SpyreX]

Ok, now I've got more reasons to think DBE is up to no good based on the posting and what I -think- she is implying her PR is.

As part of this,

Unvote
Vote: DBE

Lets see a supposed change in the PR with less votes on Luigi and keep on truckin, because I think I done got you busted.

[SpyreX]

Ohh, I've still got:

FoS: Luigi
FoS: Chen

Luigi for now saying it was a joke, he was confused AND he's not sure if he has any powers.

Chen for, well, being Chen at this point and not giving any information.

[SpyreX]

Ohh it feels SOOO GOOD when they fall into it. SOOO GOOD

PLEASE ALL HEREIN READ THIS REVELATION:

Darla is full of it.

I, you silly eldeberry sniffers, am the http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=S1yjT8XsDI8 ONE TRUE French Taunter.

It sucks coming out like this for it, but I'm not going to beat around the bush with it. I have a night action as well. I didn't want to get into it day 1, of course, but when someone else claims my role I sure as hell am going to jump on it.

So, this makes me believe that the scum weren't given fake claims as well. That's delicious.

This day 1 will go down in memory.

HUZZAH.

Confirm: DarlaBlueEyes - Thou are NOTS the taunter.

[SpyreX]

I'm still thinkin Chen for tomorrow, but since I've had to say my role, should I say more and let the town direct me or keep it up for suspicion?

[SpyreX]

Edit: Scum suspicion for what I do.

[SpyreX]

Ok, there was a lot of posting, woot

I'm going to lay it out - I am, of course, a confirm able power role.

I am the French Taunter.

What do I do you ask?

Taunt, of course.

The taunted must use their night actions if any on me instead of their target.

NOW, I do not know if they KNOW they've targeted me or if they think they've still targeted their original target. If its the former, awesome, if its the latter...not so awesome. I was worried about this because I didn't want to nail a cop or something and have them think they got an inno on a scum.

However, depending on how some things go, this might be an amazingly powerful role:

If the scum's nightkill counts as part of my taunting, I would be able to deduce scum by taunting them and being doc protected.

Regardless, it should be easy enough to confirm me - If need be I'll target who the town wants and we'll see the results.

I breadcrumbed a little pre-game (my first posts mention not only the classic taunts but the catapult as well). I have NO PR so that's what started to tip me off. I just wanted to see if DBE was going to specifically claim the taunter or not.

Now, I suppose there may be multiple taunters but she did not say she had any powers. I cant see them having two people with the same name BUT different roles AND only one having a PR.



Of course, I dont think we need to powerlynch. Let DBE say whatever she is going to. The more this goes on, the more we have to work with tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

For the record, incase something happens to me tonight...

Aside from DarlaBlueScum, I'd look at Luigi and Chen.

Ironman still needs to claim, in my opinion.

[SpyreX]

Thats what it appears, but I could be some kinda one-way busdriver too depending on how we look at it.

I, too, want to see what DBE has to say about this.

[SpyreX]

...and, praytell, why aren't you doing it here then?

[SpyreX]

If Taunter was a vanilla, I'd buy it as some kind of default. As I claimed a power role and I really doubt there'd be more than one, I'm not buying it.

With all of the python roles that would be in here, I'm sure that there's no need for two of us to have the same role with different abilities.

Not buying it, and if this is the defense, well.

[SpyreX]

So, DBE, do you have a post restriction at all?

[SpyreX]

There may be two of us, but its not adding up to me at all.

Why give us the exact same name?
Why would YOU have a PR and I dont, if we are both taunters?
Why did you use it as a method to avoid giving content?

and, maybe its just me, why would they give us two roles so similar with no method to expect a similarity within the game?

Its all of Monty Python, there's no need for a double-role with so many roles floating around.

So, if it was just that we were both taunters without anything else, then I'd be more inclined to believe it.

And, its mafia - why make an appeal to emotion about being accused a liar when, evidence suggests, there is a huge possibility you're lying?

Is it possible for you to just explain your PR exactly?

[SpyreX]

God, should learn to preview before post.

So, you have to insult and can not answer questions unless there's votes on you?

I've seen some PR's, but that's a strange one.

I'm thinkin about it.

[SpyreX]

DBE,

It just isn't makin sense. I cant wrap my brain around it.

Maybe the Mod is playing an amazing jest, but I honestly dont think so.

Your responses also aren't giving me a warm feelin' about it. When you're on the block, repeating yourself isn't a bad thing. Your answers seem very vague so far and you're not really being forthcoming to me.

I sure dont think I'm wrong, but if I am I really am giving props to shaft for making this a mindbreaker.

We're in an 18? Person game? I honestly dont expect two of the same role.

[SpyreX]

Mine says a as well, but thats because it is A french taunter and not THE french taunter. There are more than one and its not a specific one.

I'm still not buying two of us with that part.

[SpyreX]

I assume the worst, so I doubt its going to help in the regular sense. On some level, I could see it though (I think the PR is faked).

However, you are asking for her to, in essence, modkill herself if she IS telling the truth.

So, I'm going to hold with it, but I really dont like what you just did.

Yet another

FoS: Mirth

[SpyreX]

I think its the flipside of whats happened already.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are different penalties AND, regardless, why would LG know exactly what happened when DBE got some very vague description.

We're running into more issues with flavor not matching than anything else.

[SpyreX]

Actually,

Bruce, Albatross:

Do you KNOW what will happen if you break your PR? I dont care what it is, but do you KNOW?

[SpyreX]

Ok, I think I've confused myself with the abbreviations. I should have just stuck to Bruces.

BUT, I think the main point stands with what I was trying to pull out:

1.) Bruce KNOWS what happens if he breaks his PR.
2.) Albatross KNOWS what happens if he breaks his PR.
3.) DBE, however, does not.

When you add in the fact that we've got the same clip and the same role yet different abilities...

I personally think DBE is scum AND that scum now don't have safeclaims, which could come in handy later.

Only in Python could we have a day 1 like this.

Ohh...

@Spyre(off topic): WHAT is your avatar it's driving me mad because I know I know it but I can't place it?!

Attention interloper - heed this recorded message!
This drone-vessel speaks with the voice and authority of the Ur-Quan.
You are trespassing within Ur-Quan space.
This world, Earth, may not be approached for any reason.
Nor will hostilities against our orbital platform be tolerated.
In addition, your ship does not respond to standard Hierarchy identification transmissions and is therefore deemed to be independent.
This is not permissible -- only subservience shall be tolerated.
This drone now leaves to inform the Ur-Quan of your transgressions.
You are commanded to remain here and await the arrival of the Ur-Quan.
Disobedience will be punished.

[SpyreX]

I also find Bruce's claim to still not have found anything worth talking about really, really hard to believe. He seems happy enough to pipe up when people are asking him direct questions, but is contributing nothing otherwise. Silliness and suspiciousness are all around us, Bruce, surely you have some thoughts on which of your fellow players seem dodgiest?

Lord Bruce, I hope you're talking about DBE and not me? You use a he, and I'm hoping thats a typo.

Certainly, I don't think we should rush to a quick lynch of Bruce when several other players still have significant questions to answer, such as the issues around Bruce's partial role claim. His latest post, voting without reading in detail and without addressing the questions he's been asked, is very suspect, and he really needs to address the roleclaim questions one way or another.

Yes, I still want more information from Ironman. Very, very much so.

I also wonder whether (and again this may be bad tactics so don't hesitate to tell me if this is a silly idea) rather than lynch Bruce today and then lynch Bruce tomorrow if Bruce does turn out to be telling the truth about her role, we might be able to find out more if we let them both live tonight? It seems handy to know that we have another maf already in our sights if we can find a different maf to lynch today. (Don't get me wrong: if we decide to lynch one or the other of them, I definitely agree that Bruce is the one to lynch first, I don't think it's a 50-50 call by any means.)

My only problem with this is that, personally, I think DBE is telling the truth about her "ability" just not her "name" and "alignment". She could call out her roleblock and I think it'll go through. However, with the other inconsistencies I don't think she's town.

I know I've got a bad case of reading today but, Imaginality, do you KNOW

specifically

what will happen if you break your PR? This is important to me. It should be obvious, but if LG KNOWS what happens if he screws up his albatrossing but DBE doesn't know with her conditional PR, thats one more nail in the coffin.

[SpyreX]

Thank you!

Its the weekend, I'm bad at reading.

So, that's another part of it right there.

1.) Claiming the same character with different abilities.
2.) Having a different mod-set for your PR.
3.) (Personally) the not-PR insults you've been throwing towards the town if you're lynched.

I dont think scum have fakeclaims and DBE picked what, obviously, would make sense for a roleblocker.

Ma vote is staying where it is.

As an aisde, I'd still like some explanation from Ironman and Chenshi sure hasn't slipped under the radar (he's got enough experience in general to not be playing the confused card) and Luigi as well.

TO THE GALLOWS

[SpyreX]

I have experience?

I just did a search of your name:

Monty Python
Polygamist Mafia
Freelancer Mafia
Science Mafia
Mini 624
Mini 621
Haunted Mansion
Deadly Game Show
Vending Machine
Mini 626
Newbie 641

I dont even think that's all of them.
Look at my stats. YES, you have experience. Far more than enough for this kind of play to set my radar off. If it wasn't for the fact DBE has either gotten herself mod-screwed (which I doubt) or IS scum I'd be voting for you in a heartbeat and that kind of reply doesn't make me feel like I'd be wrong about it.

[SpyreX]

Same here. That's no excuse.

[SpyreX]

If you cant see the point of what I'm getting at, you're only reinforcing my belief you are scum.

[SpyreX]

I didn't say you had more than me, just that you have enough to have opinions. No matter how you chuck it, you do have more than I do, but that really isn't the point.

The fact is you haven't provided anything this game and that's starting to irk me because you're obviously not lurking.

[SpyreX]

You have a PR where you cant answer questions, but how does that stop you from delivering your own content?

[SpyreX]

K7,

If you're going to participate in this game, you better participate. We've got one Chenshi, we dont need another.

[SpyreX]

I have a thought. Just a thought mind you. Why don't we test DBE, PR. Let's unvote her (for the moment), she in turn must still talk without taughting to one person (just one post DBE) and tell us what happens if anything the Mod does for breaking the PR.
**Mind you this doesn't clear DBE, but the fact that she has be doing the PR since the game started makes me want to give her a bit of a chance.

My biggest problem with this is, DBE has eluded to it being a modkill. So,

1.) She wont agree.
2.) She'll agree and it doesn't happen.
3.) She agrees and gets modkilled.

None of these really help us. I think DBE is scum, but either way solving it by a modkill isn't a good idea.

Why do we need to know this?

I thought I was pretty clear. Claiming like that is bad. Softclaiming without divulging all the details is, well, worse. If they're going to go half-way, might as well finish the job and give us some information and a tool to use.

Now, onto the both of us scum case:

A) SpyreX not counterclaiming the French Taunter role earlier. Really, with how obvious it was that DBE was going to claim that role because of the PR she may have been faking, I'd really think, if SpyreX is really a French Taunter, he'd have noticed this earlier and claimed that he thinks DBE is scum because of it. The PR made the charachter associated with it fairly unmistakeable.

1.) The French Taunter's quotes are very obvious python. I could have seen people putting them in their posts for a myriad of reasons.
2.) I dont have a PR, so I wanted to see if/when she would do it.
3.) I, of course, thought maybe there was a CHANCE of a similar role or something of the like. She could have been "French Leader" or something that would have had the PR but not been my EXACT role.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: 477
Catch-up post time, was unexpectedly pretty much afk for the past few days, eeeep at how fast the games moving lol. Typing as I read, apologies if I start parroting other people (pun intended).

strappado wrote:
I still say we get rid of Imaginality to eliminate the Bruce confusion.


Having a PR is not scummy, therefore it's a terrible reason to lynch someone. FOS: strappado

LATER AMENDMENT TO THIS POINT: Why target only Imaginality for your vote when others (eg. Lord Gurgi) also have PR's, especially since LG's PR is, if anything, more annoying and makes him less useful as Imaginality.

Mirth wrote:
Iron Man: The announcer is not unique to that sketch. I don't think I buy your claim. Why did you feel the need to make us guess it?


Quite a lot of MP charachters are not unique to one sketch, even some one the more well known ones (eg. Mr.Praline, the dead parrot guy). If that's your only reason for not believing the claim, then it's not a very good one.

Iron Man wrote:
To tell the truth, I was bored and was looking for some fun.

Since this is Monty Python mafia, I thought a deviation from the norm was in order.


*headdesk*

Congrats on making us waste 7 pages on a pointless quest to discover your role that only really gave an advantage to the scum by letting them know a town role (assuming you're not scum yourself, which wouldn't be too far-fetched considering you led us all on a wild goose chase for no good reason).

FOS: Ironman

The Internet wrote:
If Iron Man's claim is sincere, then he is probably not a power role. Claiming this early exposes him to NKs too early in the game. So I think the next action would be to ask about features, but I'll let someone else do that. However, we must consider WIFOMs.


If you weren't rolefishing before, you sure are now (underlined part). And asking someone else to do the rolefishing for you makes you look even worse, since then if someone finds rolefishing scummy, the person who did it on your behalf will look scummy instead of you, even though you came up with the idea. Liking my vote very much atm.

SpyreX wrote:
Ironman, what, if anything, do you do as the Announcer?


Why do we need to know this?

strappado wrote:
Sure, I'd much rather vote someone because they said something like, "Oh, my role? I'm mafi--oops oops, I mean...errrrm...I'm a notorious silly walker, yes yes, nothing to see here, move along" ...but unfortunately nothing like that has happened so I'm going with the possible least helpful member of the cast, until something better comes along.


Just because nothing obviously scummy has happened yet doesn't mean that nothing scummy has happened at all, it is always better to vote for someone because they're scummy than for any other reason, and a PR is one of the worst reasons for voting someone. You're now my 2nd fave lynch target behind Internet HOS: strappado

TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:
spyrex wrote:
Ironman, what, if anything, do you do as the Announcer?


Unvote, vote spyrex.

Less power role speculation please.


Exactly what I was talking about before with TheInternet.

Lord Gurgi wrote:
Strappado's actions seem more like bad play style than scumminess.


What makes you say this?

chenhsi wrote:
This is really weird. That is the weirdest post restriction I have ever seen!


Content please

farside22 wrote:
Hmm I saw Jordan online yet he didn't post in this game. I call lurker shenanigans!


Judging by how the past couple of days have been, I was probs online only fleetingly. It's probs best to check if someone's online for a long time without posting before accusing me like you did.

Mirth wrote:
Are we all going to start saying Bruce now? Sure, I can jump on this trend too.

Bruce, (the one with the scary dancing avatar) needs to post some bloody content too.


Lets not, that'll just be too confusing lol


elvis_knits wrote:
Luigi Gangsta wrote:
Lol Iron Man, i looked at ur sketch, it's awesome, so what exactly do you do, as the anouncer?


Fishing and faking posting restriction?

You must die!

unvote; vote luigi gangsta


farside22 wrote:
I agree. The posting of sketches in every post I could see, but a sudden backwards talking restriction. There should be no reason for it to happen out of nowhere

unvote:
vote: luigi gangsta


Lord Gurgi wrote:
Albatross!

Math check mod, Unvote; Vote: Luigi. Causing chaos is scummy.

Albatross!


I think he was joking with his backward post you three. I find your sudden jumping to conclusions and sudden vote a bit suspect (although I do concede that causing confusion like he did was scummy, LG's actions is less suspicious than the other two because of him pointing that out and not mentioning faking PRs either.)

AMENDMENT: Bruce, Azimuth, DBE and SpyreX have now also voted Luigi, so has Ironman, and I find his post the scummiest of everyone's (beating the first two):

Iron Man wrote:
Ok, Luigi was definitly trying to fake a restriction. That calls for a Unvote, Vote Luigi Gangsta.


How do you know he was DEFINATLY trying to fake a restriction? He made one post that could have easily been a joke, way to try to fuel the rampant wagon with false statements, along with the goose chase you sent us on, you displace strappado into 2nd place on my scumlist.

FOS: Ironman

Btw, for those curious, my scumlist atm is, in order: Internet, Ironman, strappado, chenshi, farside, Elvis.

I don't think Luigi is scum, mostly due to how fast the wagon on him grew for very little reasoning, I feel it is scum fueled, which is why farside and Elvis appears on my scumlist, among other reasons.

chenhsi wrote:
Although I have nothing to say...


DING DING DING, there goes my scumdar!

DarlaBlueEyes wrote:
you smelly elderberry.

I indeed have a restriction.

I am not a liberty to discuss it with the likes of you but you shall see a change in my play dependent on the amount of votes on the main lynch candidate.

That is all, you may return to your hamster mums.


I'm fairly certain of what your restriction is, and therefore who your charachter is. But I'm not sure I buy it, why would he appear in a Flying Circus Mafia game?

AMEDMENT: You've confirmed my suspicions, so again, why would a French Taunter, a Holy Grail charachter, appear in a Flying Circus game?

elvis_knits wrote:
I think luigi should die. In a game where you are confused, why would you ADD to the confusion by typing backwards?


Poor posting, while Luigi may have made a mistake in adding confusion, I didn't find him too scummy, since we were all being silly at that point, everyone calling eachother Bruce, he made a reverse post for fun, going a bit over the top, but it wasn't scummy. Saying he should be lynched for it moves you past farside in my scumlist.

SpyreX wrote:
Ohh it feels SOOO GOOD when they fall into it. SOOO GOOD

PLEASE ALL HEREIN READ THIS REVELATION:

Darla is full of it.

I, you silly eldeberry sniffers, am the http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=S1yjT8XsDI8 ONE TRUE French Taunter.

It sucks coming out like this for it, but I'm not going to beat around the bush with it. I have a night action as well. I didn't want to get into it day 1, of course, but when someone else claims my role I sure as hell am going to jump on it.

So, this makes me believe that the scum weren't given fake claims as well. That's delicious.

This day 1 will go down in memory.

HUZZAH.

Confirm: DarlaBlueEyes - Thou are NOTS the taunter.


AHA! Now here's where things get really interesting. I think we can safely narrow down the lynch target to between DBE and SpyreX for today, though I shall continue to point out scummy actions by other players.

SpyreX counterclaimed DBE, which makes me think SpyreX is the true French Taunter, scum would have to be extremely ballsy/mad to counterclaim a role that isn't theirs. Plus, DBE has been generally scummier than SpyreX I think so far this game, SpyreX has been fairly protown, while before this, I was leaning on the scum side for DBE. BUT, DBE did have a PR, while SpyreX didn't (as far as I can see). In a game that is meant to be silly, I'd imagine a role like a French Taunter would be more likely to have a PR, since it's a fun and silly PR to have in a game, which swings it slightly back towards DBE for me. Also, DBE made it a little bit obvious what role she has/would fakeclaim by how obvious her (possibly fake) PR was. If SpyreX is the true French Taunter, would he have spotted what she may have been planning earlier because of the PR, and thought "Wait, is she trying to suggest that she has the role I really have?". It's quite suspicious. I still feel DBE is the more likely scum, but it's worth keeping the PR thing in the forefront of our minds, and tbh if DBE turns out to be telling the truth if we lynch her and SpyreX is a very ballsy scum, I will be kicking myself for not think he was scum because of the PR thing.

Unvote Vote: DBE


BUT, I actually have another theory in mind as well in this regard. What if they are BOTH scum? My alternative theory is that during Night 0, the scum, which include both DBE and SpyreX, came up with a mastermind plan to make one of them (SpyreX) a very trusted member of the town by setting up one of their own (DBE) to fakeclaim a role, then have SpyreX counterclaim that role, have DBE lynched, and when she comes up scum, BOOM, SpyreX becomes very trusted, maybe even confirmed as town. I'm actually reasonably confident that this theory may be true for two reasons:

A) SpyreX not counterclaiming the French Taunter role earlier. Really, with how obvious it was that DBE was going to claim that role because of the PR she may have been faking, I'd really think, if SpyreX is really a French Taunter, he'd have noticed this earlier and claimed that he thinks DBE is scum because of it. The PR made the charachter associated with it fairly unmistakeable.

B) I feel this one is the more compelling reason: Ealier I asked, why would the French Taunter, who is a Holy Grail charachter, appear in a Flying Circus Game? My answer: There is a Monty Python Movie Mafia Team. I feel this makes sense, I can't think of many groups of people who would have reason to start killing Flying Circus charachters, but the flavour may be that the movie charachters may be sick of Flying Circus charachters stealing part of the MP limelight, especially since MP discontinued the Flying Circus, and THEN went onto making movies. The movie charachters may feel the Flying Circus should be killed off because it is unfairly still stealing MP limelight even though it has been discontinued, so they may feel it is time to finish them off. Further evidence of this is that if this is true, and SpyreX is really the French Taunter and is in such a scumgroup, he will never be counterclaimed because he has that role.

You know, this case oddly has some merit considering. All I know is my role.
I'll ask this one question though:
(Without saying what or from what) Does ANYONE else have roles from any of the movies (not FC).

[SpyreX]

Ohh my god. I had some kind of quote issue.

DISREGARD ABOVE I'll POST IT AGAIN

[SpyreX]

I have a thought. Just a thought mind you. Why don't we test DBE, PR. Let's unvote her (for the moment), she in turn must still talk without taughting to one person (just one post DBE) and tell us what happens if anything the Mod does for breaking the PR.
**Mind you this doesn't clear DBE, but the fact that she has be doing the PR since the game started makes me want to give her a bit of a chance.

My biggest problem with this is, DBE has eluded to it being a modkill. So,

1.) She wont agree.
2.) She'll agree and it doesn't happen.
3.) She agrees and gets modkilled.

None of these really help us. I think DBE is scum, but either way solving it by a modkill isn't a good idea.

Why do we need to know this?

I thought I was pretty clear. Claiming like that is bad. Softclaiming without divulging all the details is, well, worse. If they're going to go half-way, might as well finish the job and give us some information and a tool to use.

Now, onto the both of us scum case:

A) SpyreX not counterclaiming the French Taunter role earlier. Really, with how obvious it was that DBE was going to claim that role because of the PR she may have been faking, I'd really think, if SpyreX is really a French Taunter, he'd have noticed this earlier and claimed that he thinks DBE is scum because of it. The PR made the charachter associated with it fairly unmistakeable.

1.) The French Taunter's quotes are very obvious python. I could have seen people putting them in their posts for a myriad of reasons.
2.) I dont have a PR, so I wanted to see if/when she would do it.
3.) I, of course, thought maybe there was a CHANCE of a similar role or something of the like. She could have been "French Leader" or something that would have had the PR but not been my EXACT role.

B) I feel this one is the more compelling reason: Ealier I asked, why would the French Taunter, who is a Holy Grail charachter, appear in a Flying Circus Game?

You know, this case oddly has some merit considering. All I know is my role.
I'll ask this one question though:
(Without saying what or from what) Does ANYONE else have roles from any of the movies (not FC).

[SpyreX]

Why did you not say something before hand when you saw a consistent French Taunter flavor in my posts? Did you not get suspicious?

There could be dozens of reasons for putting in flavor. Its a MP game, for petes sake. Until the moment you claimed my exact role, I was willing to let it slide.

You never answered this question, if we're playing this game:

Why, PR aside, didn't you come up with meaningful content on your own? That sure seems like a pretty good way to be helpful town without breaking the PR.

[SpyreX]

Thank you Sweatpants. I'll post more tomorrow, but thats what I wanted to hear.

[SpyreX]

If she is scum, i will vote Spyrex, sorry Spyrex, but i think it is more likely you 2 are in this together than Darla for some reason fake claiming from day one without reason. If they are in this together, they would probably expect this massive play to clear the one of them that survives at the cost of the life of the other but i won't buy it.

If she is town, that will clear Spyrex for me.

This, honestly, baffles me. So, if I'm right about DBE, you want to hang me, but if I'm wrong its OK?

[SpyreX]

Ok, my case on DBE:

1.) You didn't ever address my question about providing content.
2.) You claimed the exact same role as me, but with a different function.
3.) You somehow have a PR when I do not.
4.) You make suggestions that there are two of the exact same role, yet you ask me questions implying that there isn't (why didn't I say something sooner)
5.) Your flavor regarding breaking your PR is not the same as everyone else.

Why these bother me:
1.) A PR is no excuse to not provide content.
2.) I'm still new, but the only time I've seen the same role is when it is the EXACT same (I've read a lot of games not on here too).
3.) Why would you have a PR and I not if we are the same role?
4.) You play both sides of the fence on this issue: I do not think there are two French Taunters, period.
5.) Why is this different from the other townsfolk that have PR's? In fact, why is most things about your claim different from the other people? I don't think the mod would actively be screwing with us, so.

Now: Luigi Gangster - When DBE does flip scum, you're next.
1.) You setup a case where if I am right, you want me hung.
2.) Your other alternative is easy enough to say - if I'm wrong, the town WILL and SHOULD probably hang me because, yes, the chances of two of the same role are low and you could distance yourself from it.
3.) You, too, haven't provided much content (and most of your content has revolved around faking a PR).
4.) The majority of your other posts are noise with no signal.

Dear town,

I've got a question for you. I HAVE to use my night action to taunt. I've got a couple people I'm thinking of.

1.) Would you like me to say who and why.
2.) Would you like me to just say who I am going to taunt, without reason.
3.) Would you like me to just do it, and not say a word?

If there is other options, sure, let me know.

It's pretty obvious why I wouldn't out myself before she claimed my exact role. I AM a power role with the potential of being very useful. I was not about to let a claim like that go however.

If DBE is scum, I'd request a doc tonight.

[SpyreX]

I agree,

@Prod Iron Man

Give some explanations to the questions people have.

Assuming no more town pipes up, I'm going to keep my night action choice quiet.

[SpyreX]

Woo, something to post to (my games are dead right now)

I have said clearly that i don't believe it would make any sense for Darla to fake a PR right from her first post if she was scum by herself, it could possibly help her lynch the true french taunter but more than likely get her lynched so she would have no reason to do it. And how would she even think that up from the start of the game along with the PR?.

I've got the main assumption for my arguments: The scum were not given claims.

So, with that in mind, lets look at the game. Before DBE posts AT ALL Albatross and Bruce come into it with their post restrictions. Hell, at that point even I could be said to have a PR (I was joking with the something completely different).
Lets look at her first two posts, as well:

ahh, we have begun!!!
Voteth:Iron Man
what be this man made of Iron? Surely it is the work of evil.

How darest thou correct a lady!!
vote: mirth for disrespect!
SHAME!!

Neither of those really show the PR. Hell, her 2 and 3 posts ALSO dont. So, lets not say from post 1.

Now, as scum, why fake a PR?
Its a shield. Especially one like the one she's claiming (a method to avoid delivering content).

Also, with multiple PR's it would make sense to do one. And... follow me here... think about Monty Python. Think about what had been said up to that point. What would be a pretty damn obvious PR? You got it. The taunter.

It would however make sense if she had a scum buddy who was also pretending to be a French Taunter, they could both accuse each other, one of them would enevitably be lynched at the end of day 1, and the other would go the rest of the game without suspicion, i.e one sacrifices themself to save the other suspicion for the rest of the game.

You really think I'm expecting to get off scott free because of this? I hope not. That'd be bad play from the town. I'll be watched based on my actions - and yes, before lylo I guarantee a good town will use at least one investigative role on me. Hell, in this case, why would I claim a provable power role?

Another interesting point, what are the chances that of all the Monty Python characters, she fakes your one, and upon seeing the character in the Holy Grail sketch give it the same name the mod gave it? The chances are that if she was on her own and faking a Monty Python character that from all the characters in all the Monty Python movies and TV shows, she would pick one that was not given to one of us.

Assuming a passing knowledge of Monty Python, pretty high, actually. The taunter is one of the most remembered roles of Holy Grail which is, of course, the most well known Python movie.
The flipside to this, and what I've been saying: Given all the characters and roles and everything else, why would we have TWO french taunters? Why?

I believe that if she is faking the French Taunter, you guys would be in it together, a clever strat that would require planning from before the game started. This would benefit the scum of this game because you would be cleared of suspicion for the rest of the game, if Darla was scum by herself she would have nothing to gain from faking French Taunter, the risks would outweigh the benefits.

I believe she's a roleblocker faking the taunter because she had no real role to give in a flavorful situation. Again, I should not and will not be freed of suspicion by a good town by this.

How am I next if Darla is found to be scum? It would make far more sense that you are in it with Darla than me.

The fact you've been scummy this game independently of this issue and the fact you said to hang me if I'm scum? Yea, thats pretty good day 1 if I'd say so myself.

If i was scum with Darla:
Why would she go into all the effort to fake French Taunter with little to gain and so much to lose? Why would I still tell everyone that she is innocent when she is about to die and be found guilty? Wouldn't I distance myself from her to clear me of suspicion and vote for her myself?

She was garnering suspicion. You ARE garnering suspicion. Every day you two manage to not get lynched is a day that helps the scum overall. It's the flipside of the bussing argument.

If you were scum with Darla:
That would explain her irrational decision to fake the French Taunter, a strat planned by the both of you which makes a whole lot more sense than her faking it on her own. You are voting for her and have distanced yourself from her as much as possible to make the strat work most effectively. It also explains why the two roles would have different abilities, you are both faking and decided to make them different with the same name, so we would figure that both of them couldn't be legitimate so we would lynch one of you on like you planned.

So, BOTH of us faking a role that is likely to be in the game makes more sense than her getting caught on a bad claim? Or are you saying the taunter is a scum role and I told my POWER ROLE SCUM PARTNER to claim the same role to free me? (P.S. If I was scum I sure wouldn't sacrifice my ROLEBLOCKER day 1).

If neither of you are scum, which i believe is the most likely option:
These previous arguments are irrelevant, Darla will be proved innocent.
The mod will be having a laugh, he will have made both the French Taunters have different abilities to create suspicion and get them both lynched. This would have been easy for the mod to do, would require far less planning than you two faking it together and make far more sense than Darla faking it herself.

Why would the mod give two power roles that are, of course, going to get each other hung if the alignment is the same? I haven't played in games with shaft.ed but that seems like a very bizarre play to me. I dont know why "the mod fucking with us" is your most likely case.

I never said that, and never will. That would be an easy case to make considering how quickly everyone hopped on the Darla wagon, and how everyone believes that one of you is scum, so that if she is innocent they will immediately suspect you. However, if Darla is proven innocent, I will defend you and follow other leads, and if i don't you can make a case against me for lying. If Darla is innocent, which i believe will happen, us 2 will stop accusing each other and both have to fend off the massive band wagon that will probably start against you.
But let's save most of the 'if Darla is scum then you are in it with her' arguments for when Darla gets lynched, because if she gets proven innocent all those arguments will be irrelevant and we will have wasted a whole lot of time arguing a moot point.

I'm not saving it. I'm making it clear right now based on your play. Yes, it is going to be an easy push to get me lynched if Darla is innocent AND yes, I expect it to happen if she is. However, the way it goes will give some definite benefit to the town AND, of course, I'm not going to buddy up to you because you're defending me. You've been behaving scummy and this doesn't change that to me.

Another thing about this post, you seem overly confident that she will be proven guilty, i.e you are telling us to kill you if she doesn't. This futhers my belief that you are both in the same boat, i.e you are either both scum so you know she will be found guilty and can safely make point number 2 without being lynched the next day. Or you are both innocent and neither of you can believe that the mod would have given you the same role with a different ability so you both genuinely believe that the other is scum so you are throwing it all on the line to get her lynched.

I'm not telling the town to kill me - it is a logical conclusion. In a game with this many roles assuming two power roles with the same name exist and are the same alignment (P.S. this is what you've said) is nowhere near Occam's Razor. I dont think the mod is screwing with us, I think we've hit a definite lynch-worthy issue day 1 and if I am wrong (the mod is screwing with us) I honestly dont expect the town to believe me - part of why I'm being this direct now is because on that offchance I am wrong I want the town to read this after I am lynched; namely, hanging you.

Why you said what you said isn't the crux. It's the end results of it.
If I am right, I'm killing a scum and your response is to kill a claimed power role.
If I am wrong, I've killed a power role and your response is to let me (who would be very suspicious at that point) live.

That plan makes a lot of sense as scum. Not so much as town.

(Yes I am irritated because I was floored by your statements - if, between the two of you, there isn't scum I am going to get a shafted voodoo doll AND cry myself to sleep)

[SpyreX]

I did think of another scenario where the events of today make sense although, in general, I hate bringing it up because it tends to cripple discussion:

DBE COULD be a jester.

Now, this DOES make everything today make sense, but I personally dont want to believe it. Jester is one of those roles that makes a town disintegrate... but it does make it all make sense.

[SpyreX]

I doubt she's a Jester. She wouldnt have known there would be a French Taunter in the game to counterclaim her. You could, however, be one of those targetting roles that are generally townie but need to get one specific person killed

This is why I don't normally bring things like that up.

Yes, I could be a Lyncher or something along those lines.

The reason why it came up is that the French Taunter is fairly iconic and would, in high probability, be in this game. It'd be a pretty decent shot for a Jester to claim early to force out a counterclaim.

It made sense to me, so I brought it up.

Notice I haven't moved my vote.

[SpyreX]

That I couldn't tell yea - I'm not sure the thought process that lead to this.

I'm just saying the Taunter is iconic enough that there's a high probability it'd be in the game.

Of course, this is all conjecture at this point.

[SpyreX]

Ok, I am now on record as having a big <3 for PokerFace. If you've got some smokes, give them to this man, lordy be.

(Needless to say I agree with everything you said above).

Now that its obvious that the town is not going to direct my night action, I'll freely admit I suggested it partially to see who would want to direct my actions (because, as is said, that's not the optimal play). I was hoping, on some level, it'd spark some more discussion but no scum bit.

Of course, in reading Pokerface's post (and clicking on the links) it led me to ANOTHER course of scummy behavior to REALLY look at.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you: Mirth! (Not quoting posts unless necessary, but I'll reference based on HER post numbers).

12. Accuses Imagine of faking a PR (Joking?)
15. Shows, from a different thread, Imagines probable PM (Blah)
19. Asks more about Imagine's flavor.
22. Votes for Iron Man (4th Vote)
26. Votes for Strap because Iron Man didn't react.
34. Tempted to for for Chen for the "I'm confused" card (Understandable, but why not vote?)
36. Says a faked role will not be counterclaimed (this is important).
48. Votes for Chenshi, finally.
57. Doesn't like the speed about on Luigi
60. Says Darla is a French Guard (this is 4 hours BEFORE Darla finally claims)
62. Says she's not going to believe my claim right away.
64. Says almost all her posts have the French AND its too obvious a role to fake (says its too iconic)
65. Entertains the ideas of multiple taunters.
66. Asks what if we're both scum. Makes the statement: One dead as scum confirms the other.
67. Mentions we dont know if the scum have safeclaims (obviously)
75. Mentions wanting Darla to break her restriction.
76. In response to my FoS about her suggesting breaking restriction doubts the mod has different penalties for different players.
86. Suggests its good of Darla modkills herself and the day doesn't end.
87. Says she is willing to vote, but is waiting for the Claim.
89. Says she doubts a jester, but suggests I could be a lyncher.
90. Suggests if its a fakeclaim why not go for one better known.
91. Asks poker what he thinks of Iron Man.

The things that bother me about this whole deal:
1.) Mirth has had a fixation with the PR's in general; moreso than anyone else.
2.) Although I agree, Mirth has pushed and pushed for Ironman's claim. There's been a fixation there.
3.) Has a very high noise-to-signal ratio this game.
4.) Really, hasn't built a case.
5.) The early votejumping also seems odd.

6.) The whole DBE scenario:
a.) Mirth, before DBE claimed, claimed the French Guard for her.
b.) She says that, with all of the roles in MP, a faked role will not be counterclaimed.
c.) 64 and 90 are in direct opposition with each other (Taunter wouldn't be faked because it is too iconic, Taunter wouldn't be faked because it isn't iconic enough)
d.) Pushing for the modkill. I really, in retrospect, do not like this. It's not how mafia should be played AND, of course, in that unlikely scenario I'm wrong and we're both actually Taunters if the day doesn't end that'd probably be two Town power roles gone before night 1. Who does that benefit the most?
e.) Makes the same claim Luigi does earlier: we are both scum in a gambit and if one turns up scum both should be lynched (I've talked about this enough)
f.) Mostly ignores the arguments (mostly by me) showing the myraid of differences in DBE's restrictions and punishments versus the other PR players.
g.) Says she's willing to lynch Darla - however, and with everything else this bothers me, doesn't really give the exact reasons and, ultimately, doesn't say its because she thinks DBE is scum (alluding to the both of us scum strategy).
h.) Suggests I'm lyncher - again, pushing for a lynch on me tomorrow?

Ok, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the fact both LG and Mirth have ignored what, to me, feels like the Razor in this case bothers me. The fact that both have said, outright, if I am right then I am scum and should be lynched,

really

bothers me.

Again, I am not suggesting either Mirth or LG (or Chen) for lynches today. Its got to be DBE. I dont like this plan they have for tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

Not you little Albatross. The Gangsta. I refer to you as Albatross and Imagine as Bruce for the most part.

[SpyreX]

So, you're proposing a lurker versus someone with an actual case?

Yes, I agree that lurkers will have to be dealt with but I DO NOT think they are a valid day 1 lynch - for a myriad of reasons.

As we move forward, yes, chen will either have to contribute, get replaced or get lynched. Today is not the day to do that.

[SpyreX]

God, I thought walls of text were hard to read. The bold makes my eyes shift all over.

I'm gonna bounce around, but:

He is stressing it so much I am starting to wonder if he already knows Darla is scum, and he wants to setup a case for tomorrow on SpyreX in advance.

This is what I expect. That is why, ultimately, I said if DBE is scum (like she will be) he's next.

Never ask for this. No matter what your role is, no matter what it is you do, never ever direct the doc in any setup. Let any possible doc(s?) choose who they want to protect by themselves.

Fair enough.

Also, Poker, are you thinking what I am in response to DBE's warnings about her post restriction versus the number of posts she has without the PR? I have to assume thats why you asked and, of course, they dont add up.

Mirth,

First off, I'm not sold on you being scum (like I am DBE and Luigi if DBE is). I posted WHY I feel like you're being scummy.

But, since you took the time to respond point by point, I will gladly respond (believe it or not I'll give you the point on most of the things I said).

62. Says she's not going to believe my claim right away.

Sooooo I'm suspicious for not believing you right away? how is this a good reason?

Of course its not because you didn't believe ME. That, implicitly, means that you DO believe DBE's claim (else it would be I dont know who to believe, or I don't believe either of them, etc).

64. Says almost all her posts have the French AND its too obvious a role to fake (says its too iconic) It is.

If scum is going to fake claim, theyre going to claim something not immediately recognizable by everyone.

Possibly. However, part of this isn't the issue of the fake claim - it is you're giving credence again to DBE telling the truth and me being the liar or there being 2 taunters. Considering how this is going, it bothers me.

66. Asks what if we're both scum. Makes the statement: One dead as scum confirms the other.

This is conjecture. Why do you find this suspicious?

I misread this (I blame Luigi). I read it as one dead as scum confirms the other (as scum)

2.) Although I agree, Mirth has pushed and pushed for Ironman's claim. There's been a fixation there.

I think he's the single scummiest person here. Darla is primarily scummy because you counterclaimed her, he is scummy of his own accord.

You see nothing scummy in DBE's play aside from me counterclaiming her? I'm not arguing the IM point (his play has been atrocious) but I've said that DBE has had some scummy behavior most of this game.

67. Mentions we dont know if the scum have safeclaims (obviously)

Not obviously since you kept saying you know cum don't have fake claims

My obviously was supposed to be on the fact we dont know. Obviously we dont, only they would.

86. Suggests its good of Darla modkills herself and the day doesn't end.

It is. Darla dies, we save a lynch, and can use that lynch on someone else. Like Iron Man.

This one I'm not going to budge on. Asking to have someone modkill themselves is never a good idea. On top of it, I honestly feel it is very scummy behavior:

I feel the following statements are very true:
1.) Scum are, individually, more important for the scum's success than townies are because there are fewer of them.
2.) Scum are, definitely, going to want to obfuscate and keep information hidden from the town.
3.) Scum are not going to help the town.

Therefore, in requesting for a player to modkill themselves:
1.) They have to be willing to sacrifice themselves to help the town.

Thus, ultimately, only a townie will actively modkill themselves. Scum have no reason to give the town an extra lynch between cycles.

So, in asking for a modkill, you are presenting a situation where only a townie will do it. Also, it doesn't serve as a decent gambit because there are many reasons why a townie wouldn't do it as well. Modkills, ultimately, benefit the scum.

90. Suggests if its a fakeclaim why not go for one better known. Again, out of context.

If Darla is a Jester trying to get herself killed and not scum trying to survive, she'd need to go for something that is really really really obvious. While French Taunter is far more iconic than something like Mr. Hilter, he's no where near as iconic as Dead Parrot Guy.

On a fundamental level, you've said both sides of the same coin. If a role is to iconic for scum to claim, it is iconic enough for a jester to claim. I dont see a difference here.

4.) Really, hasn't built a case.

On whom do you wish me to build a case? I think I've been pretty clear in my Iron Man hate. I do not see lynching him as smarter than lynching Darla.

I dont CARE who you build a case on. I just like having the cases. Hell, it could be on me, but the points and logical conclusions that lead you to it is very important to have. I know your stance on Ironman and you've said it in some places, but a point by point never hurts. (because maybe we see different things, or different takes, etc).

h.) Suggests I'm lyncher - again, pushing for a lynch on me tomorrow?

Yes, I suggested this. Just like you suggested Darla is a Jester. Both of these are far fetched and ridiculous. Even though you are clearly twisting my words around, I don't actually want you lynched tomorrow unless Darla comes up town.

Honestly, I dont think Lyncher OR Jester are as rediculous flavorwise in MP as other things and, to me, DBE's play considering I do not believe there to be two taunters it would make sense. But, this latter part clears up some confusion (as I've said before).

Ok, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the fact both LG and Mirth have ignored what, to me, feels like the Razor in this case bothers me. The fact that both have said, outright, if I am right then I am scum and should be lynched, really bothers me.

Again, I DID NOT SAY THIS. I said one dead scum confirms the other. As town. Learn to read.

The AS TOWN was not there. I accept I made a mistake but "learn to read" sure doesn't do anything at all. Your original statement, obviously, could be construed both ways.

However, that was a big part of my WTF, so with that cleared up I am much less suspicious. You are saying what the obvious Razor is and I am fine with that.

So, with that misconception out of the way not everything was building a OMG scum case, most were just key points in your posting either way. I posted it partially to get some clarifications and I got it.

So, yep, I can read. Nope, I sure wasn't trying to pull you out of context. Notice I didn't even vote for you - but those things struck me as odd so I addressed them. Thank you for clearing a lot of them up.

[SpyreX]

With all that in mind, I'd like to see DBE / IM / Hammertime. Any of the above would just be swimmingly.

[SpyreX]

Mirth, I'm almost done. In rereading everything after some sleep most of what I have issues with is taken care of. Just a couple of things.

I know what your obviously meant. My point here is that you have not been acting like we don't know. You have been asserting they don't. Unlike you, I don't think a dead scum Darla would prove anything one way or the other about safe claims.

I guess I misused my pronouns. We (the town) dont know. Considering I know my role and my alignment and DBE has claimed both the same as I have and I absolutely do not think there are two taunters in this game I, with my added knowledge of my own role, can make the conclusion that scum very highly do not have safe claims.

I disagree with you here. Part of it is a test. If this was the plan we followed, and Darla refused to be modkilled, she would be lynched anyway, so there would be no loss. Since Darla would be lynched anyway, a modkill even if Darla turned up town would save us a night phase (thus less dead townies from scum kills) because we wouldn't have to wait for the scum to take their turn to kill before lynching again. If Darla is to die anyway, which seems to be the case it is best for her to die in a manner that benefits town more, that is giving the town an extra lynch. However this matter is void because the mod would probably go into night if we forced a modkill. In that case it would be worse than a lynch.

In your statement itself is why I feel requesting a modkill is scummy.
If Darla refuses to modkill herself, we lynch her as scum (even though town would also, chances are, not want to modkill themselves)
If Darla modkills herself (something I really think only a town would do in 95% of situations), we have another lynch for the day and IF that ends up with another town dead the scum have a good head start (and, on day 1 barring situations like what happened with Darla, there is a good chance of mislynching a town)
Also, I may not have played a lot of games, but I have read quite a few. I have not ever, ever seen a game where the person who requested a modkill ended up with a town role. Asking for modkills is, to me, going to be a huge scummy flag.

I did notice you weren't voting for me. I'm going to withhold judgment on whether that's a good thing or a bad thing for now. Your case, even if not meant to say I'm 100% scum, came off as taking me out of context *and* a bit OMGUSy because you apparently thought I wanted you lynched.

I honestly wasn't trying to take you out of context. Also, my thought process (why I went back and reread went like this).
1.) I've had my suspicions since you asked about the modkill (thats the one thing I still do).
2.) Reading PF's post I saw you both mention the Taunter being too iconic for scum and not iconic enough for a potential jester which struck me as off.
3.) When I said that she may be a jester based on the way this has went your reply of well you may be a lyncher sat off to me (that is really the OMGUS part).
4.) I decided to do a full reread and misread that one line which, of course, colored other readings.

So, yes, although there is still SOME suspicious (to me) behavior I dont have qualms saying I over analyzed. Can we be friends again <3.

I've said I dont like Iron Man's play and I stand by that. Chenhsi is being almost as bad with his one liner n00b-esq posting, and spyrex is leading haphazard lynch.

How is this lynch haphazard?

[SpyreX]

I'm just waiting for something to happen. I haven't lost interest.

[SpyreX]

With imagine's thats hammer?

[SpyreX]

No that just puts her at L-1 even with imaginality. It 9 to no lynch and 10 to lynch. Also I've read through the recent exchange with mirth and spyreX. I don't find mirth scummy. A couple of things SpyreX said were a bit off in context almost reaching, but nothing I'm greatly concerned with at the momment. A couple of the things he says pretaining to setup speculation also bother me, but i'm still convinced darla is the lynch.

Yes, in rereading for the most part I do not find mirth scummy as well.
What setup speculation have I talked about except them not having safeclaims?

I can see DBE, Luigi, but strap? I guess I just need to see the case again because I'm developing tunnel vision.

[SpyreX]

I knew bringing Jester up would be a mild storm of fail, but the only reason I did is that, to me, it fit the play. I apologize for that especially since I wasn't planning on moving my vote. It was mostly conjecture.

As for the safeclaims, you understand why I would think the way I do with it, right?

The Ironman debacle has pushed itself to the point where he is going to have to give a fullclaim.

And, on that note, maybe its just me being paranoid, but I would have expected the announcer to have a PR. Again, just me, but hell thats ALL the announcer does is an inherent PR.

[SpyreX]

Wow, I wasn't even looking at it from that view - I was thinking about the early game posts without insult. So, we've got PR breaks on the front and the back.

[SpyreX]

Ok, I am suggesting someone hammers if within 12 hours IM hasn't responded. If he hasn't I will be voting for him tomorrow because this is ridiculous.

[SpyreX]

So...

Going over these posts again, I realized they claimed the same night action, ecept Darla added in the roleblock part which her death description doen't reflect. Spyrex, I want answers from you about that. Do you think both you and Darla would have the same role and be on opposite sides?

Well, like I said, I expected her to come up roleblocker and not actually a "French Taunter" - so I am surprised by that. So, considering the way it went down... yes?

And we did not claim the same night action - that was part of my questioning about her claim. She said she was a roleblocker. I am a redirecter/limited lightning rod.

As I said, I have no idea if who I targeted knows they actually got my information, but we'll see based on this.

My night action did go through. I'm more than happy to tell everyone but I have one question first - did anyone else get visited by the bridgekeeper?

[SpyreX]

Well, her half of it has been proven - she was lying about her alignment.

Unless you assume I bussed a scum-partner, I would have no reason to lie about anything I've said. It'll become clear today.

P.S. Post more in all your games, lord.

Who hasn't chimed in yet, and I really think we should wait for everyone before I explain why I'm waiting and being so cryptic (I think there's a more than decent chance I caught a scum through my action last night)

[SpyreX]

And Spyrex, who are you referring to with the last 2 paragraphs?

Well, when I said post more, that was you. I guess I should have been more specific. Post more with content. The in all your games in reference to the other game I'm in with you that you are also not posting in.

The last was to the whole town. I'll amend it though - I will wait until everyone has chimed in and said whether or not they were visited by a bridgekeeper.

[SpyreX]

Well, we did have two kills - so we either have a town kill / scum kill or two sets of night killing scum OR a set of scum and a cult OR (and I hope not) a cult, a Sk and scum?

@Muerrto:

I am, again, surprised she was telling the truth about her name. So, yes, I have to assume we have two French Taunters. Why, I dont know.

I'm taking it you were not visited by the bridgekeeper?

[SpyreX]

Sorry, in the set of scum and a cult the other kill would be a vig.

Cult normally cant kill and recruit, can they?

[SpyreX]

Lurking all the time doesn't make it helpful in the slightest. If you're going to play, play.

[SpyreX]

... Did I miss something?

[SpyreX]

And, of course, did you get visited by the bridgekeeper?

[SpyreX]

Killer -
Did you or did you not get visited by the bridgekeeper.

[SpyreX]

Ok, Just trying to keep track

@JordanA, SweatpantsNinja, Ironman, Azimuth -

Did you get visited by the bridgekeeper?

@K7, Muerrto, Pokerface

I've got it implied that you didn't get visited, but can you just say no or yes for me.

[SpyreX]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted by Chenshi's play.

How long is courteous before asking for a prod on anyone who hasn't chimed in yet today?

[SpyreX]

Ok, Just trying to keep track

@JordanA, Ironman,

Did you get visited by the bridgekeeper?

@K7, Pokerface

Just a definitive yes/no.

[SpyreX]

We're soo close though.

Actually, I'm heading out for the evening. If I get back early enough I'll post my deal tonight, if not tomorrow.

I'd really prefer if the two slackers un-slacked.

[SpyreX]

Too tired for the revelation tonight, sorry waiters. I'll do it tomorrow, regardless. I hope the last two chime in though.

2. So, is the going consensus that we have (well, had) two French Taunters? And we lynched DBE because we thought she was lying, but she wasn't...and was mafia regardless? What exactly is a role attractor, anyway? I couldn't find it in wiki. Is it possible that she "attracted" SpyreX's role away from him, so that she became the FT and now he is...something else? My head is spinning.

Now, keep in mind I dont know the exacts of how this works, but its something like this:
Lets assume you are the Cop. You decide to target Mr.Scum.
I, not knowing you are the Cop, target you with my taunt.
Instead of Mr.Scum, you now are doing your night action to me.

See, the thing is I dont know if you know you're doing it to me or not. Maybe that'll get cleared up today.

4. Along those lines, I have to say I'm a bit perturbed by people who say that they will reveal something later on but can't right now. What could you be waiting for, especially since now you've announced it most folks might just be waiting for you? If it hurts the town to reveal it now, then why mention it at all?

Well... I'm waiting for people to chime in. I think the others are waiting for ME to do my thing before they do their thing. I don't think anyone is going to let any of us slide by much longer, so it'll all come out in the wash.

Night all

[SpyreX]

Ok, I'm going to try and make sure I make sense with this all and why I was being so "secretive"

First off, I am -fairly sure- my night action went through. I received no flavor so I have to assume it did actually go through.

So, I had one night visitor, it was the bridgekeeper. It was implied that there would be consequences for lying too many times, so I told the truth. The bridgekeeper asked me my target, my ability, and my alignment.

So, already, I've got a few problems. Assuming there are actual "consequences" for lying, this bridgekeeper is acting as an all-in-one:

1.) Tracker
2.) Rolecop
3.) Regular Cop

That seems, to me, like it is too much (not to mention I dont see too many town-rolecops in the games I read)

This shouldn't come as a surprise, but my initial read of the bridgekeeper itself is scummy. Finding out someone's target and ability would be real handy for scum to pick and choose their nightkills - and the last, if there IS a cult could be handy for scum and if not, could be a way to make it appear to be a lot more towny. Regardless, I dont like it one bit.

Now, as for why I waited until people had chimed in about the bridgekeeper - I wanted to see if it was a multiple-visit thing before I explained what they did.

So, I'm left with two real possibilities.

1.) I taunted the bridgekeeper and this came to me instead of whomever it was supposed to.
2.) I taunted a vanilla and the bridgekeeper chose me.

Personally, especially considering my role was already out in the open, I think it was 1.

So, I'm left with a conundrum - although I personally think the role is scummy this game has already thrown me for a loop with the Scum French Taunter and the Town French Taunter do I potentially out a town Tacker/Rolecop/Cop or do I potentially let a really powerful scum role slide by?

Regardless, I am putting it up for discussion, now.

P.S. If Ironman claims he was visited by the bridgekeeper, hang him.

[SpyreX]

@Mirth

Nope - although, the only situation where that question makes sense is if you ARE the bridgekeeper and, if that is the case, you better let me know before this moves too much farther forward.

@Chen

Not definitively - if they dont step forward I have to assume my target IS the bridgekeeper and they didn't mean to target me.

[SpyreX]

Honestly, I cant imagine a role like that belonging to ANYONE. Seriously, a Tracker/Rolecop/Cop getting all three results on one person in one night action?

The fact that it says there may be consequences if I lie, but doesn't say what or anything else, also bothers me.

The fact it isn't just results and there is interaction and, presumably, some room for subterfuge makes me think its not on the up-and-up.

I'm not saying anything until more people have chimed in, regardless.

[SpyreX]

I've got no reason to lie about this. I'm already irritated at the fact DBE actually turned up Scum French Taunter AND the damn Cop dies - then, of course, I get another role that "may" be able to actually clear me and I'm not sure if its scum or not.

[SpyreX]

Every other game I'm in is dead, but this one is sure accctive.

Said I'm not sure if I do. Darla wasn't lying. And he claimed the exact role that dead-confirmed Darla has. How is that just something to write off? The power of the role he suggested he was targeted by also seems far fetched (unless there is something rather limiting there). So I'm not going to buy his claim yet because it seems unlikely that there would be 2 French taunters with identical powers and different alignments *and* there would be some kind of supercop who can find out *everything* about his target. Now answer my question.

I did claim the exact role that DBE did. No, that shouldn't be wrote off - it would be silly to just assume that I'm town based on that.

Yes, the role I was targeted by DOES seem far fetched and thats why I'm having problems with it. I cant see it as being legitimate on face value because it would be too powerful (but if it is I dont want to get a huge town power role lynched) and, of course, I could see it being a totally BS scum tactic for information (with the "consequences" of lying).

Again, though, DBE and I did NOT claim identical powers. She claimed roleblocker (which, oddly enough, isn't in her death notes but Bruce and LG both have their role) whereas I am a re-directer. That difference was one of the many things about her claim that bothered me.

@Strap

I really, really do not understand the whole Mr.Vibrating business. At this point I dont want you to out your role, but again you've softclaimed a role and that is going to cause some issues. How could you know that?

[SpyreX]

@Spyre X, are you certain you were only hit by 1 or is there only 1 you know of that targeted you?

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but tell me if this clears it up:

1.) I targeted one person (no roleblock flavor so I have to assume it went through)
2.) I had one night visitor - the bridgekeeper.

So, either I hit a vanilla and the bridgekeeper targeted me or I targeted the bridgekeeper.

[SpyreX]

OHhh, I think I see what you're saying. I -could- have hit a role that wouldn't provide ME flavor (Cop, Tracker, etc) and the bridgekeeper targeted me.

[SpyreX]

Yes - there is a variable number of "non-flavor" roles that could have targeted me that I wouldn't know about. However, if thats what happened, more power to em. Any one of them will help me clear myself.

This whole Mr.Vibration issue really strikes me as odd, though.

[SpyreX]

2.) I think it is true for now because it hasn't helped him yet, but I would suspect it to be false if the bridgekeeper suddenly shows up and and confirms spyreX, because it would look very scummy

I dont trust the bridgekeeper at this point. So, I wouldn't tout that as a confirmation of me, for sure.

[SpyreX]

@strap:

Do you know this from a night action? Or is this conjecture.

[SpyreX]

I could see that, but then that makes my scenario even weirder, considering.

[SpyreX]

@strap

I just want to know HOW you know - is it through a night action / role flavor / conjecture?

[SpyreX]

@strap,

One last time please, how do you know what you know?

[SpyreX]

@Poker,

1.) I was told it was the Bridge Keeper.
2.) The questions specifically were my target, my ability and my alignment. The closest connections for the same type of information if it was normal roles was:
Target - Tracker
Ability - Rolecop
Alignment - Regular Cop.

Now, there is a hazy space about the "consequences" of if I lied (I told the truth to all 3) - but, at face value, that is all three roles in one.

[SpyreX]

What was he hoping to accomplish by mentioning what happened to him last night, and how specifically did he think it might help the town? More importantly, did he accomplish what he hoped to accomplish?

I mentioned the bridgekeeper because, when I initially saw it, I thought it was a scummy role - far too much power for the town, but a great tool to pick and choose for scum.

Now, why I wanted to know if anyone else was visited - its pretty simple. I, when I saw it, was surprised that I was the target; yes, there would obviously be questions about my role after day 1 but a town power role of that magnitude using it on me would be silly. I wanted to try to eliminate the option of it being some REALLY bizzare multi-target role as well as eliminating the gambit of, when my information came out, a scum going "Ohh, me too" and causing an issue.

So, finding out that no one else was visited by the bridgekeeper helped make me clear on my initial train of thought of me either targeting a vanilla or the bridgekeeper (as you'll see below, thats been screwed up though).

I wasn't EVER trying to have you believe that there were two French Taunters in the game - like I said, that was the one part I thought she was lying about. As is, I have to accept that there are two but the role and alignment were different. Without another scum dead I can't really speculate on why they would do that, but I have a couple ideas.

If you've got more questions just let me know, I'll try to be as clear as I can. I've been up for a long time so I'm a little addled but, I had to post.

But, guess what. I've got a big problem with some revelations that just occured.

My target last night was Strap.

So, explain to me how you had a night action that got you some result about Mr. Vibrating when I taunted you? Apparetnly you're not the Bridgekeeper so someone can testify to getting my confirmation that this WAS in fact my target if it becomes an issue.

Vote: Strap

Until this is cleared up in some fashion I've sure got to believe you've lied in this mess. Now it should be really obvious why I asked how you knew, also.

I'll start the one chain of events that would clear this some: Iron Man, did you target ME with your night action last night?

[SpyreX]

Well, isn't this a bag of cats that has been unleased.

And if Elvis wasn't told it was me outside of following my crumbs and guessing, then how was SpyreX told he was targeted by the bridgekeeper?

The very beginning of the PM I got said specifically I was visited by the bridgekeeper. It did not, of course, tell me who the bridgekeeper was, but there is no doubt that I was visited by whomever is the bridgekeeper. That role seemed weird and it still does seem weird, but thats what it is. Why your night action flavor is different than mine I have no idea, but thats where we're at.

As for the other bit, yes, normally I would have just said "strap didn't kill me" but the bridgekeeper role was odd enough I wanted that mess cleared up.

Spyrex: why wait til now to vote Strap, why not vote her before but withhold your reason?

Because I was trying to give information to the town? I didn't take into consideration the clusterfuck that apparently happened to me last night and I wanted the town to decide whether or not to out the bridgekeeper (but, of course, then I thought she lied about it so I did).

But, for now,

Unvote

I believe strap and it looks like I was Mr.Popular last night. We know what the bridgekeeper does and that is does exist.

[SpyreX]

And, yes, Strap's role does seem weird (seeing the characters, not the players). However, everything we've seen is weird roles so I'm honestly not surprised by any of it anymore.

Although, now that I think about it, by what PF does, all I know is that my target didn't send in the kill - and if I'm right, wont I be dead? How the hell do I breadcrumb that in a fashion that makes sense?

[SpyreX]

God, double post - the only way it would work is if I was doc protected and we had one less night kill and even then it's only probable.

[SpyreX]

I'm not asking you to force feed me. I just havent breadcrumbed before and I'm fairly new still so I'm thinking out loud on ways to utilize this role well without the dumb I caused today.

I'd like to see the other parties involved post, but definitely dont stop posting. Its nice to see a game active for once.

[SpyreX]

I honestly dont know - the machine that goes ping could be a doc but regardless it doesn't matter and I'm not doing more rolefishing.

[SpyreX]

To give information to the town?

[SpyreX]

Exactly - I am NOT A ROLEBLOCKER. I am a redirecter. And Strap said she chose me regardless of my redirect so it fits with my role.

As for Iron Man, there's one reason why I can buy the randomizer... what's the Announcers catch phrase - "And now for something completely different."

Makes sense to me flavor wise.

[SpyreX]

I dont like softclaiming either - I'm one of those where if someone softclaims, I want to know what they are so they are locked into something if they are scum and so I have a better idea of whats going on if I am town.

As for why Strap? Well, I thought some of the D1 play was off, so like you, I thought of a Luigi / Strap / DBE / others group. Not knowing others, I thought there was a decent chance Strap would have either been the one performing the kill OR a maf role that I'd rather have targeted on me.

However, watcher doesn't really strike me as scummy, so.

[SpyreX]

So, K7 legitimately targetted you and it went through after Ironman's randomization?

K7, I dont care what happened at this point, but do you know you actually targeted PF or is it just assumed?

[SpyreX]

Edit: I dont care exactly what your action is, but I just want to make sure you KNOW it's PF you actually got results on

[SpyreX]

You're a bad lurker because LURKING IS BAD.

I'd still like K7 to chime in on if he KNOWS he targeted PF and got results on PF.

[SpyreX]

Know what I think is fun? Not getting answers to the questions because both parties are refusing to participate at all. I would really like to know from K7, again, if he knows for sure he hit PF (that makes the most sense, but you never know in this game). Seriously tired of lurkers.

Hopefully LG can hit his big post too. This game is dead lately.

[SpyreX]

Thats all I needed to know. I've got a nice, shiny hammer waiting as well. IM definitely deserves to respond though.

Looks like Farside has jumped the hammer, so I'll be sure to check in for his non-response at 3:59.

[SpyreX]

You win this round, PF. Thats a much cooler hammer.

[SpyreX]

I know I do!

[SpyreX]

Chenshi, I swear.

Elvis didn't try to kill me, as an aside.

Bruce is dead. Long live Bruce!

[SpyreX]

elvis, I already did admit to it. I taunted you.

Long reply in a bit to Gurgi

[SpyreX]

SpyreX
He seemed to turn on his scum hunting when DarlaBlueEyes claimed French Taunter, but afterwards it seemed to die off gradually. I am heavily concerned that he dropped his suspicion of Strappado, when from his perspective, she caught him in a lie.

I thought I caught her in a lie, until she explained what her role did and, then, the results she got made sense. I think this is further "confirmed" by Mirth turning up Mr. Vibrating who was one of the people strap saw come to me that night.

As for the scumhunting - this game is, obviously, power role heavy and I know I've been focusing more on the interactions of the power roles and how that influences the game. I'm going to give a reread on the players regardless of the other stuff.

However, with Iron Man turning up town, that makes me question the series of results yesterday.
Let's play through some scenarios:

If K7 is town:

Scenario 1: Ironman's action went through.
- Ironman's randomizer randomized to the same results K7 put in initially
Problems: The chances of that are low. How would a randomizer work with K7's role that has two "values" to it? (Would it have changed PF, Strap, both?.
- K7, actually, was RB'd.
Problems: PF saw Strap.
Secnario 2: Ironman's action did not go through.
- Ironman lied about it going through.
Problems: Why lie?
- Ironman didn't know it was blocked.
Problems: Few, in comparison. I have no idea if there is RB flavor.

if K7 is scum:

Scenario 1: He's not lying about his power.
- K7 did exactly what he said he did.
Problems: This means IM was RB'd and either K7 is ballsy or there is another scum roleblocker (if DBE was telling the truth) and K7 knew it.
Scenario 2: He is lying about his power.
Problems: The only way this would work is if PF was also scum.

So, I'm weighing if K7 is scum (and did what he said) or if IM was blocked and didn't know it.


That out of the way.

Chenshi is really bothering me. He manages to be here this fast after the thread opens (and I didn't get a thread open notification, so that means he was watching it) and manages to throw down two scumtells and, still, doesn't provide content. This IS NOT lurking in the sense of not paying attention to the game. It is willful.

Vote: Chenshi

[SpyreX]

@The Internet,

Well, I have no idea what Mirths role did. My -guess- is that she picks a target and roleblocks them IF they targeted her? (kind of a lame role). The only other thing I can think of is she just is untargetable?

Now, with me, I cant say. Apparently I targeted strap and strap targeted me, so... I got nothing if my power actually worked or anything like that.

[SpyreX]

No, I targeted you night 1, and apparently mirth targeted me that night as well as you and some other folk, so.

[SpyreX]

@PF - Right now, I think K7 is town as well - not in any small part because I think YOU are town and that scenario doesn't make sense if you're scum.

I agree, after my debacle, that unless they think its going to help to not share information.

Farside, can you explain more about your list without giving away what you're aiming for?

[SpyreX]

Sorry, been busy between work and the swift game - kinda let this one slide to the back burner. I'd the rest of farside's comments.

@Muretto - why did you say you'd quit games because of a prod? What is it about me that makes me still scummy?

I agree that we've been too heavy on role analysis and not on scummy play - however, the roles and their interactions WILL play a huge part of this so both have to be accounted for.

[SpyreX]

I think the two french taunters is strange, too. However, I dont know what else to say about it. This game is a hard one to wrap around, rolewise.

[SpyreX]

The only problem is that K7 lying to get IM lynched would mean that PF is also scum, and I'm really not getting that vibe from him. Now, K7 having his role and a different person RB'ing IM (unlikely) COULD cause the events to go down like they did.

I need to give this game a reread now that my swift is done.

[SpyreX]

B. SpyreX - 2 taunters what? Anyone got any idea as to why shaft.ed would do that or why anymod would? I wonder if you aren't a taunter but a scum that counterclaimed Darla for safety.

It IS some scandalous moddery - however, I dont really have anything to say that hasn't been said before. I have no idea why we'd have two of the same "role" but different alignments (and, I have no idea why DBE would lie about being a RB versus an Attractor even though she was scum). I know, of course, without investigation I should NOT be here when we get to lylo. I just would like, if I end up hung, for it to be because of my play, not the dirty mod pool with this.

@SpyreX, The night kill flavor suggest the Spainish inquisition took out Bruce and Mirth. Do you believe the Spainish Inquisition would be part of the "Egoscentrical Character group", or do you think they are part of a different scum group (Cult, SK, whatever)?

Personally, I think that the flavor leads to our standard mafia (the actual shot on day one) and to an SK - tied to a dish rack and poked to death seem like very "silly" methods to die and, of course, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition; but we do expect mafia.

Does a Cult normally get kills as well as recruits? With the two kills Day 1 and the single kill day 2 I would think that a Cult doesn't make sense - but an SK sure does.

Of course, the other avenue is we have one "silly" mafia group and the D1 kill was a vigilante kill (which would explain the "shot")

Until otherwise, I am going to assume we're dealing with two anti-town killing factions though.

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX, So you say the spainish inquistion would be part of a mafia known as the Egoscentirc characters OR that they are and SK. corect?

I think the Spanish Inquisition would make sense, flavor wise (as their role AND as how the kills went down) as an SK. They could be just part of the maf, but I think it makes sense as them being the SK.

Um...someone had the role of 'cult un-recruiter'...can you explain why we WOULDN'T have a cult please?

Well, to me, the role of cult un-recruiter doesn't make sense. Let say there was your standard cult, and once you were in the cult you knew the members, etc, etc. Wouldn't one member being un-recruited ruin it for the cult entirely; the next day the un-recruited member would just give the names of everyone else and they would either be hung or voluntarily be de-culted. (I played a lot on Epic Mafia, and this was the EXACT problem they had with Masons / Cult - I have never had cult in a forum game).

As for killing OR recuriting - I had no idea, so if that IS the case, then sure, instead of an SK it could be cult. I'm not going to freak out about cult until we get more concrete evidence of it.

K7's action on PF makes sense but IM using his action(confirmed) doesn't. Could scum have a role blocker? Yes. Would scum pick IM to block over all the other choices available since everyone had claimed day 1 already? No. Just no.

This quote reeks of trying to use WIFOM to push suspicion on K7.

The rest is just lurker hunting which I normally like but with a growing cult and multiple scum running around I think lurker hunting is a good way to make the town lose quickly.

I would be surprised if there was a cult, sk and maf. You, yourself, said that the rest is lurker hunting - what about active players?

[SpyreX]

Where did it say he was shot SpyreX?

I am apparently losing my mind. I swear it said he was shot - but, rereading, it sure doesn't one bit - just slain.

SpyreX's claim was same name, different powers. Something to note.

Yes, my role is French Taunter that taunts someone to target me. DBE said she was a French Taunter that RB'd (but came up role attractor).

I really dont think the cult is as likely as an SK - I can not think of a way the Unrecruiter would have worked that wouldn't have broken the game; I think it was a flavor name for Brian.

As for suspects:
Chenshi (Lurking, but obviously here, saying he's made statements he hasn't, no contribution (as well as some ongoing game meta).
Muerrto (I'll give a full case later, but a pinch of OMGUS, the odd focus on the cult (and me being in it), the "hunting lurkers is bad, my suspects (aside from K7) are suspects for lurking and the fact I, who he's brought up more than once, isn't even on there)
The Internet (Breadcrumb Hunting, The Softclaim, The K7 hunt / defending Chenshi)

Why the K7 thing bothers me at this point:
Yes, K7 COULD be scum, but of everyone he's tied himself tightest to another player. Although there are scenarios where K7 is scum and PF isn't, the Razor suggests to me that they are both the same alignment and, due to PF, I believe them to be town. Of course, the fact that K7 gives another player a night action could be very handy (one of the roles that has been claimed that would make sense for scum to get rid of).

I think I K7 lynch is a bad call today, Personally. The Fact is that although I dont like his play, he's made the connection that I dont think needs to be called out at this moment.

Of them, Chenshi is definitely far higher on my list today.

[SpyreX]

Um...they asked who our scum suspects are. You're not one of mine so you weren't on there. Did you even read my post?

Yea, I did. I also read:

Still don't like Spyrex or K7(due to DBE and IM, respectively) and still wondering who the cult is since we're at day 3 and they could technically have 3 members by now. Does that not scare anyone else?

Don't like K7 or Spyrex.

I'm still not sold on Spyrex.

As for the cult I've been putting Spyrex up there as #1 suspect for 2 reasons: he's a duplicate claim which is EXTREMELY weird in a theme game and he's also quite sure there's no cult even though he can't explain why we have an un-recruiter.

Can you name another theme game where someone had the same name?

Not impossible, just don't like it.

Hell, you've mentioned ME more than any one other player in an obvious negative fashion for the latter half of today. So, yes, its really surprising that you've not actually made me a suspect - if you're going to toss my name in the ring (often in the same breath as your "top" suspect) I'm going to sure expect I'd at least be a suspect.

And where did I say hunting lurkers is bad?

I said I'd rather hunt actually scummy people but I HATE lurkers. I'm not sure I've ever played in a game where I didn't say that at least once. I hate them. They kill the pace of the game with their constant prods and their 'I'll post later' blah blah. Meta me if it makes you feel better. BUT, that doesn't mean it makes them scummy just because I hate their playing.

Right here:

The rest is just lurker hunting which I normally like but with a growing cult and multiple scum running around I think lurker hunting is a good way to make the town lose quickly.

That sure seems like "I like to hunt lurkers, but that's real bad for the town." Followed up by your suspicion list of:

Chensi, Azimuth, Internet, TSPN(lurkers)

Now those 4 aren't just lurkers, they have done some things that have raised eyebrows but K7's claim just doesn't add up with IM's confirmed ability and I DON'T see scum blocking IM when there were plenty of other already claimed targets.

So, on one end, hunting lurkers is going to make the town lose really fast - however, 4 of your suspects you bring up - although you say other reasons - as lurkers as well.

As for the OMGUS and the 'case' on me? Looking forward to it. Since your two other points were blatantly wrong I'm assuming there's not much case there except OMGUS.

The OMGUS was kind of a joke to the fact you've spent most of the day poking at me about my claim - but yea, I'm "blantantly wrong" about the other points

I'm focusing on the cult because it's day 3 and there's a possible 3 man cult about. How would 'Cult un-recruiter' be flavor for Brian? How come everyone else got an actual 'role' and no flavorful title like that? And how come you still can't explain that but are still gung ho about there not being a cult?

Explain to me:

1.) Why the cult is killing? Or, is it Maf, SK, Cult?
2.) How an un-recruiter would work, at all, without making the cult instantly lose the game.

I said who my top scum suspect is and why so I'm not just focusing on the cult. Just because K7 used his action on PF doesn't mean he A. meant to, B. is town, C. is linked to PF at all. You're assuming too much there.

A. If he didn't mean to, how would he have asked the question he did?
B. Of course not, but that doesn't mean he's scum either and crusin on power-role lychin aint my favorite thing.

C. The fact that PF confirmed his action (especially in relation to IM's randomization) DOES on some level link them.

[SpyreX]

Are we talkin apples and oranges here? Cult is scum - hell, any third party that doesn't win WITH THE TOWN is scum. It is not going to help the town win - and, if in those quotes (most of your latest posts) where you mention me isn't putting suspicion on me (which, if I'm not scum, why would you do) isn't you claiming I'm scum then hell, I dont know what is.

Do I think you're cult? Yes. Very strongly. Have you convinced me otherwise? Not at all. Do I think there's even the slightest chance of you being scum? No. None.

So, none of the suspects you listed are potentially cult - just scum? Who's the cult? Who would you hang today?

Get why saying I'm cult, not mafia is still saying I'm scum by a different flavor.

Have you ever played in a game with a cult before?

Forums, nope? Does that really matter here? Nope. If ANYTHING, the fact you're saying your suspects you think are maf (and not cult) when you feel there is a growing cult faction is even more bizarre.

[SpyreX]

No, no, no. Because your situation with DBE I don't think you're on the same side as her. Because of your claim of a duplicate name I don't think you're on the same side as the town. If you wanna call the cult scum fine. I think you're part of scum group B whereas DBE was scumgroup A. Since she wasn't cult that makes you cult. Huge difference.

Looking at A and B alone you can see that the cult is just plain more powerful than the scum. The only difference is that the scum START at full numbers while the cult have to GET THERE. But the scum can only go down in numbers, not up. The cult is much, much more dangerous if left for too many days.

Lets, for clarity sake, call "scum" anyone who doesn't win with the town that, of course, the townies would want to lynch. So:

Cult = Scum
Mafia = Scum
SK = Scum

Etc.

Now, in your latter you say the cult is more of a threat than the mafia, which if there is a cult, would be true - any threat that grows versus being static is, of course, more of a threat.

Farside asks:

Does anyone have a scum list they wish to share. Please state who your top 3 scum are and why. Just would be nice to here something beside Chernshi for lurking so damn much all the time.

You, clearly, have said:

Do I think you're cult? Yes. Very strongly. Have you convinced me otherwise? Not at all. Do I think there's even the slightest chance of you being scum? No. None.

So, you post a list of scum that doesn't include me at all. The whole purpose of a scumlist is to find out more information for a lynch. You have said very clearly the cult is more of a threat than the mafia.

Why, if I'm "very strongly" cult would you not include me in your suspect list? Is it because its early and the cult isn't a threat? Even, in that situation, wouldn't you want to target a threat to the town?

Ohh, and just because the capitals bother me so much enforcing a non-point:

They're not known to each other so they're not on the same side so calling them both scum is WRONG.

I'll be sure to never call the Cult or SK scum - from now on they'll be "Enemies of the State" that for every practical purpose would be synonymous to scum.

So, yes, the fact you have repeatedly called me an Enemy of the State yet, when asked for a list of suspects, decided that the growing threat that is this particular Enemy of the State is less than "scum" kept me off it entirely was very strange.

Following it up with this discussion (kudos for not really addressing my direct questions or, well, most of my post) of the most pedantic semantic argument of scum vs anti-town factions you get the new

DOUBLE SPACE HAND OF SUSPICION: Muerrto

The ONLY reason I am not voting for you right now is the fact that I am firmly convinced Chenshi is scum of whatever flavor you want to call it under the sun. I will be looking your way tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

@PF -

Thank you! Thats all I wanted to know. If there is a setup where an un-recruiter may work, then there is definitely more evidence for there being a cult.

However, I am still taking it with a grain of salt - like the tobacconist, until we have some concrete evidence (cult cop, dead cult, etc) I'm going to assume Maf / SK.

I'd still like to know why, if I'm so sure to be cult, I wasn't even a suspect though. That exchange really bothers me.

[SpyreX]

That's why you don't understand because the above assumption is wrong. Very wrong. You said you've never played with a cult in game before so let me clear some things up for you:

A. The cult win when they outnumber everyone. That means they want town AND scum to die.

B. The scum win when they outnumber everyone. That means they want town AND cult to die.

C. The town win when the cult AND the scum are dead.

So the cult are NOT on the scum's side and vice versa. Same for the SK. Calling them all scum is wrong, confusing, and leads to the whole discussion we're currently undergoing.

Farside asked for a SCUM list. You're not on mine, never have been.

You're not going to convince me that anti-town factions are not "scum". But, assuming your belief - just because Farside asked for a scum list and not a mafia list or a cult list... you didn't put me up as a suspect when you think I'm part of a larger threat? Hell, you're not even voting for me (I think, haven't seen a vote count in a bit). Why would you not want a cult dead if they are a larger threat?

It's not adding up and hiding behind a "scum != cult" doesn't, to me, make your actions make sense - that is why I find you suspect as being an anti-town role.

Hell, am I off base with this? I know I dont have too many games under my belt, but I've read more than a few and I've NEVER seen this particular argument.

[SpyreX]

And, TSPN - are you talking about Strap? Or did I miss an actual investigative role clearing me?

[SpyreX]

Albatross!

Enough. Scum is Anti-town, Cult is Anti-town, Mafia is Anti-town.

Albatross!

Thank you.

Have you read one with a cult? If not please do before pursuing this further. CULT =/= SCUM.

Yes, I've read games with a cult. Yes, I know what a cult is. No, neither of these have ANY bearing on any of this.

I'm just as culpable, but all you are doing is adding white noise and, ultimately, avoiding the real questions I asked.

Most of today you've brought my name up as "suspect" - yet, when you listed your suspects, I wasn't there. You've said this is because I am not "scum" but I am "cult". Again, why if you are so sure I am "cult" would you NOT be pushing for my lynch - especially considering you yourself have said cult is more of a threat (especially as the game continues).

Regardless of the semantics,

your

statements have not matched

your

actions. That is why you have been suspect and, considering this exchange, continue to be suspect.

[SpyreX]

My statements have matched my actons completely. Some people are more careful with their vote than others. I'm sorry LG said that about anti scum etc because it's still wrong, period. I wish others would chime in but this is really just mafia theory so drop it and if you really really wanna pursue it AFTER the game I can educate you in another thread, as can just about anyone else on the forum.

Well, apparently I'm just sooo blind anyone can teach me so I dont think its going to matter. I really like the condescending attitude with it though.

But, again, for the last time we're going to try this very direct question:

Most of today you've brought my name up as "suspect" - yet, when you listed your suspects, I wasn't there. You've said this is because I am not "scum" but I am "cult". Again, why if you are so sure I am "cult" would you NOT be pushing for my lynch - especially considering you yourself have said cult is more of a threat (especially as the game continues).

[SpyreX]

Also, because I just CANT let it drop because it makes me :facedesk:

From the Mafia Wiki: The DEFINITION OF THE WORD SCUM

see also: Anti-town

Scum is a catch-all term for any member of an informed minority, such as Serial Killers and Mafia goons.

During a day phase, everybody is seemingly trying to locate and eliminate these roles.

It is typical to use the word scum as an adjective or other means as well. (i.e. That's a scummish thing to do. or You are acting quite scummy.)

So, lets just drop that now, and stick to the question I've asked more than once.

[SpyreX]

I can't say I agree with any of your choices there PF. I understand the LG thing, but as a mod myself sometimes I may give a role and it isn't always random. Spyrex is someone of interest but low on my scum scale and I still think Chernshi is an easy BW for scum to jump on.

The thing about Chenshi is (aside from his V/LA) - its obvious from timing he's been checking the thread and choosing not to contribute. When asked to contribute, he has not (in fact he moved from lurking, to lurking in plain sight). Considering, even with V/LA, he is still in this game I can only assume it is not lurking due to inattention but active lurking.

When you, with that, take what he's actually SAID - he has managed to contribute nothing and skate along. On top of that, he's managed more than once in his saying nothing to actually BE scummy while saying nothing.

You're saying that it is an easy wagon for scum to jump on - if he IS town, yes, that is true; he'll be left alive every day and there will be a wagon on him EVERY day. However, I think that his play has been scummy (not just for lurking, but for the timing and "content" he does post.

Despite the fact I am now even more confident Muerrto is scum, I -still- see chen as being obvious scum hiding behind a meta-shield.

[SpyreX]

No, I want to lynch chenshi because I think he's scum. The fact that he's provided nothing reinforces the belief that he is scum.

I think that I made that pretty clear more than once above.

[SpyreX]

Well, lets see. He has 44 posts. None of which I think are more than 3 lines - the number of posts is almost double that of the other "lurkers".

He has not placed a vote this entire game.

Day 2 AND Day 3 he was there right when game started (there was no PM notification of game start) - which means he has been paying attention to this game.

Now, for some posts that give that good ol' scummy feeling:

I am not random voting because this is chaos and I'm confused

Starting off with the "I'm confused" card when you have mafia experience.

I'm just curious but which games are you looking at? I only did that in 2 out of my 9 games...

An example of said experience - also, saying that he CAN and HAS posted more than this before.

Explain myself? What I am supposed to explain? Why I lurked? Because I always do?

This gem followed up later by:

I could explain why I was lurking yesterday ... although I can't explain why I am playing today...

AND by:

Which is kind of lurking on purpose, and kind of not.

And, of course, the start of Day 3:

Oh no... Mirth died...
Lucky its only 1 death...

Talking about night actions isn't necessarily a scum tell. Being a huge lurker, contributing nothing and "Ohh gosh, lucky its only 1" IS a huge tell on my radar.

But, of course:

Paying attention to a game and actively contributing nothing all game IS scummy. Not voting once all game (keeping one of the major ways to find scum absent) IS scummy. Not having an opinion on anything is scummy.

[SpyreX]

You seem to plug this into just about every post but only since I started calling you out. Yet others are also suspect of you and you haven't called them out. Can you post a case with quotes and evidence or is this straight OMGUS?

I am almost speechless. Almost but not quite.

So, way early on - well before I mentioned you as a suspect (1016) you started bringing up me as a suspect (due to DBE) and talking about the cult and even made the statement:

Does that not scare anyone else?

in reference to the cult being up to 3 members.

This is the first time I ask why you think I'm scummy: here you say I'm not 'scummy' but have trouble swallowing 2 french taunters. Still fairly normal.

PF asks me what I think about the Spanish Inquisition. I, like I still do currently, think that with kill evidence I could see them being an SK versus a cult.

Your response to this is me being #1 suspect for cult because we have a "cult un-recruiter". This post, piece by piece, is where I really started getting a scummy vibe aside from the initial "dont like spyrex"

Lets take a short stroll down memory lane (1073) (WITH BOLDS):

Sorry I'm not posting up a storm. Honestly this game is turning out to be more of a job than a game. I feel like I need to make some kind of graph of what everyone's role is(since everyone felt the need to claim) and who they targetted. Something I understand some people do for every game but I've never wanted nor needed to.

1

To be short, this game has me quite lost.

SpyreX wrote:
Personally, I think that the flavor leads to our standard mafia (the actual shot on day one) and to an SK - tied to a dish rack and poked to death seem like very "silly" methods to die and, of course, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition; but we do expect mafia. Wink

Does a Cult normally get kills as well as recruits? With the two kills Day 1 and the single kill day 2 I would think that a Cult doesn't make sense - but an SK sure does.

Um...someone had the role of 'cult un-recruiter'...can you explain why we WOULDN'T have a cult please?

2

And normally the cult can kill OR recruit.

3

Spyrex goes down in my book as #1 suspect for a cult. Makes sense too since 2 french taunters, 1 scum, 1 town, would be insanely weird.

4

K7's action on PF makes sense but IM using his action(confirmed) doesn't. Could scum have a role blocker? Yes. Would scum pick IM to block over all the other choices available since everyone had claimed day 1 already? No. Just no.

5

Don't like K7 or Spyrex.

6

The rest is just lurker hunting which I normally like but with a growing cult and multiple scum running around I think lurker hunting is a good way to make the town lose quickly.

So, down the list.
1.) For you being lost, you've definitely had opinions up to this point - the "I'm confused" doesn't jive with the focus you've had on K7.
2.) Again, since I'm apparently soo new, I decided to ask the wiki. Lets see if there's any chance of ambiguity this time: (Just posting one spot to save space)

Cults generally do not have a killing ability.

Why are you, again, lauding this (which if it is true is an exception) as the norm? I dont think at this point either of us can trust one another, so I'll ask the people this - find 5 or 10 games with cult, and see how many actually can kill OR recruit.
3.) Why would a cult have a taunter versus the town having one? If you had said you thought I was just lying, sure, but why is one of the cases above more valid than the other? Hell, even the I'm bussing a scum buddy makes more sense than that.
4.) WIFOM at its finest. How many actual roles did we have claimed at the end of Day 1? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure only DBE and I had fullclaimed and Ironman was the only non-PR to claim (Bruce and Albatross were givens by their PR) so, again, why push so hard for the scum NOT having roleblocked him?
5.) Again, this comes up later - you mention K7 and I in the same breath and, of course, in a negative fashion. The fact that I was not on your scumlist still makes this stand out.
6.) Again Again, this comes up later - you say lurker hunting is bad but your suspicion list consists mostly of lurkers.

As for asking for cases:

K7
Chensi, Azimuth, Internet, TSPN(lurkers)

Now those 4 aren't just lurkers, they have done some things that have raised eyebrows but K7's claim just doesn't add up with IM's confirmed ability and I DON'T see scum blocking IM when there were plenty of other already claimed targets.

I'd like to see your cases on them. What "raised eyebrows" who are all the other claimed targets?

Then, we get to my post that started one of the most hair-pulling discussions I've had on here (which, incidentally, I think covered most of what I've detailed here in abbreviated form).

The fact that discussion went the way it did and, ultimately, any questions I've asked have been flippant replies or just disregarded (since you just need to "educate" me later).

So, yes, I've said "I'm more confident you are scum" not because OMGUS but because of your behavior after our little discussion AND the things you said initially that made me wonder about you.

As for not calling them out - the others who "suspect" me have said that I could be scum with DBE and bussing her. Even though I know its wrong, until my alignment is 100% confirmed that is a valid concern AND there's nothing I could say against it besides "you're wrong".

On the other hand, you've said I'm cult (not scum) because I had the same role as DBE. Why couldn't I be town in this case? Why so sure I'm cult? Hell, isn't this the scope of your entire case on me?

But Spyrex is also my top because of his recent OMGUS kick which is definitely usually something scum resort to(or newbies but he's said multiple times that while he only has a few games under his belt he knows what he's doing so I'm not letting him use the newbie card).

It is NOT an OMGUS kick - if it was I'd have been pushing on you like this from the first damn time you went "I dont like SpyreX". It is the fact that we've spiraled into this retarded discussion and you have patronized and deflected versus answering simple questions around your "scum list". Its the fact that you say we shouldn't lynch lurkers and most of your suspects are lurkers by your own admission. Its..well, you're play. Its been scummy and moreso as this went on.

Therefore, that makes him cult/SK. I'm leaning cult because he's quite adamant that he doesn't think there is one. Does that clear it up a little?

As it sits, the evidence for a cult is SIMPLY the cult un-recruiter. I have thought it would be a red herring because, to me, it seemed like it could be a red herring. We have NO concrete evidence of a Cult - we have evidence of two anti-town killing roles (and, even then only strong evidence for one). PF presented enough evidence (and actual evidence) that I could see the possiblity being stronger for there being a cult. AS I SAID then, until we've got some concrete evidence I'm assuming Maf / SK.

Again, notice that I am not voting for you right now. These discussions make me more convinced you are scum, but I still see Chenshi as a better target because he is, to me, being more scummy. So, yea, I sure put a lot of words together for an OMGUS

[SpyreX]

1. Um..reading my earlier posts about multiple people claiming and me having to make some kind of graph to show it all doesn't sound like I'm a bit jumbled? Is there a reason I'm not allowed to be a little lost like any other player? What part of this makes you think it's contrived? What part doesn't match with my views of K7?

2. Where the hell did you find that in the Wiki? Any cult game I've EVER played in they can kill or recruit. I just recently played in a game with FOUR cults and no scum. Believe me, there's a large difference between the two. But I say AGAIN, drop it. This is mafia theory and has no place in the game. You think you're right, I think I'm right. WTF does that have to do with anything? Of course the cult is anti-town so it doesn't matter what the hell you wanna call them. In fact, the fact you KEEP dwelling on this and NOW are trying to make a case on me off it is one of the reasons I highly suspect you. There's just no reason to keep going on and on about this.

3. How are you confirmed as a taunter? In fact, you said you targetted Strapp who said she targetted you already. I see no taunt there. You keep acting like claiming means you're confirmed which is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with your ability, it has to do with your name. I ask again to everyone, have you ever seen a theme game with two people with the same name?

4. I'm not. I'm saying it's a possibility, I have all game. But if you combine K7's 'target' and his lurking, lack of content etc. why is it so amazing I find him scummy? In fact, several others put K7 on their list. Why are you so focused on me putting him on my list? Interesting...Simply reinforcing my suspiscions of you.

5. AGAIN, I don't think you're SCUM. I think you're anti-town!!! If YOU don't see a difference I'm sorry. But WTF does that have to do with me? Why would I list you as scum when I don't think you're scum???? And why do you keep harping on it repeatedly?

6. And your list contains me with strickly OMGUS reasons(in fact you admitted the OMGUS). Your other reasons are because I suspect K7, but so do alot of other people. So how does that make me scummy and not others? Your points just don't add up.

1.) Its not simply "I'm confused." Its, I'm confused, but due to the interplay between these players I am convinced player X is scum that makes the confused part seem contrived.

2.) Under the definition for the word Cult.

3.) I am NOT confirmed as the taunter. Your posts about it are "two taunters don't make sense." If you do not think there are two taunters, say I am lying and go for it. Dont talk out both sides at the same time.

4.) Where have you said that a roleblock was a real possibility? Hell, I dont care about the push on K7 by you - its the method of it and the fact you still haven't voted. You've been pushing this "I dont like X or Y" but yet never voting for either.

5.) This must be a problem in our semantic debate. However, I still find a huge issue with someone asking for scum suspects and, assuming the scum != cult, at the minimum at that point saying "I would still rather lynch SpyreX because I think he is cult." Pushing and pushing and not putting down a vote or doing anything about it is shady.

6.) It is not OMGUS reasons. If it was any other damn player that was saying "I dont like Player X, I dont like Player X, Players A, B, C are my suspects" I'd have done the exact same thing - the fact it was ME made me see it quicker because, like everyone, I tend to pay attention when its my name mentioned.

Half your points are mafia theory and the rest are a mix of OMGUS and points that apply to nearly everyone currently in the game. Is this your entire case?

The mafia theory is applicable because of your focus on the cult. There is a possibility of cult, but it is not definite. The fact that you have placed me into a SPECIFIC scum group that we do not have evidence even exists makes me question the reasons. So, yes, when we are theorizing about the setup theory does and will play a role.

My "a pinch of OMGUS" statement was in the fact that, partially, the fact you've been saying my name over and over is what made me look. It doesn't change what I found after I looked though.

No, half the game hasn't made statements that stand out to me as suspect. Half the game hasn't just ignored the majority of the questions I've asked in our discussions.

So, yes, this is my entire case right now. Just because I cant seem to be cordial with you - what's your case on me? That two taunters doesn't make sense for one to be town? And...?

Also - I dont know if you're doing it deliberately or not, but AGAIN the question I wanted clarifiaction you skipped. What "raised eyebrows" on your other suspects?

Ultimately, it seems like no one else is interested in any of this exchange and its just becoming white noise. I'll take a step back and maybe other avenues of discussion will open up.

[SpyreX]

Answer me this. You're not Spyrex. You're another player. Spyrex counter claims DBE with the same role name(possibly different abilities we don't know since DBE could've lied about that). DBE comes up with the role she claimed. You now automatically buy Spyrex's claim of the exact same name as scum? If you said yes...I'm not sure how we can go any further with this discussion. Remember, 3rd person, you don't know your role.

(I am using your vernacular) (this is all theory talk)
As scum? Yes - I could see a scum partner bussing another. As sk, probably not, as cult, most likely not. As scum, its a gamble but one that may pay off - you've got enough members to proabably avoid the hang for a few days and be a focus point (thereby protecting your scum partners). SK - you're putting some unwanted attention on yourself and really threatening losing really fast if there is an investigative role (becasuse the double-role IS out of the norm). As cult? No. For that to have happened Day 1 I would have had to been the original cult member. I would be putting myself up for investigation or a hang before I could even grow my faction. Maybe on day two or three I would have had a DIFFERENT member pull that (if only the leader can recruit) but I would do about everything in my power to keep that recruiter safe and pro-town. Of course, I would always give credence to the town factor because, really, a townie makes the most sense for being that quick to counter-claim (knowing its going to throw suspicion) AND the fact DBE was scum.

So, personally, with a double claim like this my thought process would be:
Town 40%
Scum bussing Scum 40%
SK 15%
Cult 5%

So, if the claim was that you didn't believe me because I could be scum bussing them, sure. Its the fact I'm specifically cult, which to me makes the least sense out of all the alternatives that really makes me wonder.

Break that habit. Town vote town, town lynch town, just as easily as scum lynch town and town lynch scum(and scum lynch scum etc). Because someone's attacking you does not make them scum.

Of course not. Like I said, if it was any player who was in that setup and I was paying attention to the flow I would have raised suspicions about it. The fact that it was revolved around me didn't "change" that - it just made me pay that much more attention.

I myself have played alot of theme games, and have never seen two players claim to be the same character, and then later, both turn up that character. One has always turned up a liar and they have been scum.

That is pretty much the norm. I like being the exception that proves the rule apparently. Although, the only thing I can bring up is, for whatever reason, DBE lied about what her role does (or the card flips are actively ambiguous) - so, there was a "lie" in this mess, just not what I expected it to be about.

As for the vig.. I'd give my right eye about now to be a vig, so I feel ya.

[SpyreX]

@ THe Internet:

I'll be V/LA from tomorrow morning until saturday. I will probably have some access, but not much as the internet is spotty and I usually have to borrow wifi. Don't lynch me while I'm gone, as I still have some cards to play in the event of a wagon.

That last line really struck me as a softclaim of sorts and a vague one at that. Thats all I meant.

Of the three you are the lest suspicious, but that caught my eye.

[SpyreX]

Yes, claim so we can get some more information.

[SpyreX]

... this is awesome. Lord almighty, I say we give him one day and, if he's too cool to play the game, hang him.

I HATE when a game grinds to nothing because of one player.

[SpyreX]

So, let me get this cleared up.

Chenshi is "a" Black Knight - A 2-shot BP.

Farside is ? - but has some interaction with the overzealous knight (I could be reading that wrong - were you counterclaiming or is your role connected in some fashion)

I dont know what to make of the "a" versus "the" debate. I am, of course an "a". There are a few python roles that would be "a" and not "the" - the BK of course isn't one of them.

However, that semantics argument doesn't really hold weight considering how bizarre this game has been in relation to the roles.

Normally, a 2-shot BP would seem very out of the ordinary - with this game I could buy it though. However, again, considering we have no proof of pro-town roles that could test it it IS a good scumclaim AND the events leading up to it are still suspect.

My vote stays.

[SpyreX]

^ I endorse the above.

Also, since it is Python and all.... what better character to be ego-centric than the Black Knight?

Want PF's evidence though.

[SpyreX]

Well, I guess I'll be the one to

@Prod: K7.

Come on in and answer this, please.

[SpyreX]

Well, I was gonna chime in on LG, but that started, developed and finished too quick to get a word in edgewise.

Although I guess I do have to change something - I was going to target PF tonight just to prove at minimum I have the role I said I do, but it sounds like you have some method to actually get your cigs so back to the drawing board.

[SpyreX]

Logic? Good luck. I agree with LG, lets hammertime and get this done with.

[SpyreX]

So close guys, yet so far away:

L

ogic?

G

ood luck. I agree with LG, lets hammertime and get this done with.

PF even quoted it. It was right there.

Muerrto: now knowing you are scum, was our little spat put out of context some or is it time for our question thread about the definition of scum?