Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[Ranger]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Ranger
Will the lies ever stop!

Whenever I'm uninspired. Maybe I'll invent something cool later. For now, I sadly can't afford to lie. Unclaimed millers are policy-limmed; I can't lie this time. :(

[Ranger]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

thats it?

I decline to comment further. Claiming miller is important. I've no need to share more.

[Ranger]

{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{AniX}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}

P1.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Ranger]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

not this shit again

:lol:

The problem with lying so consistently is when I actually tell the truth, nobody believes me.

The price I pay for a good troll.

[Ranger]

WTF I WAS ABOUT TO MAKE MY EARLY READSLIST UR NOT ALLOWED TO BEAT ME TO IT

I'm top-tiered in all ways, obviously.

{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{AniX}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

I see a lot of OUT OF GAME references to Ranger lying, I'm assuming it is some sort of meme about Ranger/millers.

Nah. I've picked up a bad habit of lying in claims recently. I don't know why people think I'd be lying immediately though. Past lies were given only when I was pressured into claiming by circumstances.

[Ranger]

I am in the camp of Ranger is lying.
Here is my evidence

Hey! Don't use my image without credit!

[Ranger]

the tl;dr is read the graphic

I can tl;dr a tl;dr:

I lie lots.

[Ranger]

1) Who is on the right?

Someone I'm frequently compared to erroneously. Thus why I made the graphic Alisae's plagiarizing. :P

[Ranger]

Aureal I got a red pm too!!!!!!

I actually

didn't

get a red role PM.

[Ranger]

With you, a miller claim isn't going to clear you, you know this.

Naturally. If I know it doesn't clear me, then why the focus on it though?

[Ranger]

Aureal I got a red pm too!!!!!!

I actually

didn't

get a red role PM.

Just like you

didn't

put me in the Nightmare?

No, I unironically got no red in my role PM. It may have something to do with being a miller.

[Ranger]

1) hypothetically, if you have a night action, would you prefer aiming at town, null, or scum?

Town.

2) if i had control over *your* vote, would you be okay with me disregarding your opinions?

Obviously.

3) if you could form a neighborhood with two other players on night one, who would you pick?

Either my top two townreads or the two players I'd feel provide the best opportunity for fun times.

4) what is your level of spice tolerance? (this one is definitely just a fun red herring)

Metaphorically, I am the spice.

[Ranger]

This makes me trust Skygazer because my role is equally kooky (I will not at this time explain why) so I suspect there was mod collusion on kookiness.

How many players are neg utilities this game?

[Ranger]

{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{Cook}
{AniX, Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

is this a reads post if so how should i read the reads post

Who am I voting?

That's the scummiest section.

Opposite, the towniest.

[Ranger]

I'll catch up and respond properly to everything in about six hours.

Meanwhile, I wanted to say I legitimately believe at this point a truthful massclaim would likely break the game in favor of the town.

The scum will lie, and ATTEMPT counterplay, yet I believe in this game specifically, they'll have no ability to.

The listmods submitted roles, and xyzzy created a setup from those roles.

Normally, the reason for avoiding a D1 massclaim is because scum have counterplay.

With how town/scum roles were designed, I don’t think they'll actually HAVE the normal level of counterplay. They may even have none.

[Ranger]

I'll catch up and respond properly to everything in about six hours

Canceling this, apologies.

Friend emergency.
I’m in crisis mode to help them,

Indefinitely V/LA

[Ranger]

I'll catch up and respond properly to everything in about six hours

Canceling this, apologies.

Friend emergency.
I’m in crisis mode to help them,

Indefinitely V/LA

Apologies. I'm here now.

[Ranger]

So it's Mastina, a player who is very respected for some reason. A lot of strategy-related content on the wiki was written by her.

"for some reason" is right; with how garbage her theories are, not sure why she warrants respect.

[Ranger]

i hope things are more stable for y'all now

When the friend has lost nearly everything, it comes and goes.

I thrive in catching up, as long as I don't need to case/iso.

[Ranger]

Would you like to be my mason?

I'll never say no to being conftown, faked or otherwise. I'm somewhat concerned you may have me confused for someone else, yet I've certainly no reason to decline free conftown status.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{Cook}
{AniX, Skygazer, Bingle}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}

P7. (DW I'll get there.)

[Ranger]

Just so it's clear, Ranger, this game you need to put me at the TOP of your readlist, not at the bottom. thx very much.

Without a meme, I actually can.

Unless my ability to peg DragonEater70 as scum last game was a fluke, this is DE70 as town.

[Ranger]

Reads, from most town to least town:
Doctor Drew
Alisae
Ranger
Save the Dragons

Can you help me bus Doctor Drew or Alisae? Save The Dragons is

actually town

too important a scum role to bus; the others're fair game.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{Cook}
{AniX, Skygazer, Bingle, Random Nurse}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Alisae}
{Doctor Drew}

P9.

[Ranger]

Let me know if the massclaim I proposed actually happened (and I need to partake), or if someone managed to convince you out of it, despite how we should.

[Ranger]

Nooooooooo I need to know your reads before I go off to sleep!!!

Currently:
{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{Cook}
{AniX, Skygazer, Bingle, Random Nurse}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub, Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

I'm 26 pages behind though.

[Ranger]

would you join me on the Ircher wagon which I've yet to explain? Explanation coming in my (hopefully) next post.

Depends on what I read, actually.

Ircher's very easy to read correctly. I wasn't impressed with his entrance, yet if I see his towntells later, then he'd be town.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{Cook}
{DKKoba}
{AniX, Skygazer, Bingle, Random Nurse}
{Aureal}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

P16.

[Ranger]

Also I admire your commitment to actually reading all those pages, I could never.

It's honestly easy. Just read, skim the content which doesn't look important, provide important commentary when choosing to (it's usually not needed), and update reads. Doesn't take long, provided no rl interference.

[Ranger]

I think theta is pretty obviously town bc of that role madness town vibe where townies will sometimes talk about their role in a way that's just super natural and genuine.

Big mistake. This is Theta Alpine's approach as scum.

[Ranger]

ranger's idea of massclaim is probably town motivated?

I'd say it's +town.

We should follow through on it, now that I'm here.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{AniX}
{Cook, Bingle}
{Skygazer, Random Nurse}
{Aureal}
{camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

P20.

[Ranger]

I think I'd only want us to do this if we get a mass claim or at least a partial mass claim going

I want this as well. In my opinion, the players who have already claimed or partially claimed should give discretion on whether they fullclaim, and then provide an order they'd prefer claims in.

The players with at least partial claims:
{Ranger, AniX, DKKoba, Bingle, Theta Alpine, Skygazer}

I'd prefer Alisae > Theta Alpine > Doctor Drew > others, idc past preferring these three being among the first three to fullclaim.

[Ranger]

Ranger, your thoughts on my scumcase on Ircher?

I've a different method to read Ircher.

It's not definitive, yet as of page 23, I believe Ircher's +scum here; I'd sheep.

Still,

{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{AniX}
{Cook, Bingle}
{Skygazer, Random Nurse}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Aureal}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Alisae}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

I've even stronger reasons to vote Doctor Drew and Theta Alpine. Ircher's

probably

scum. I'm more sure Theta/Drew

are

.

[Ranger]

if i had to gth solve rn - nurse/ircher/drew/wazza ? jury on anix is still out tho - hoping to see a development past trying to only purely talk mechs and discuss stances too.

My hipshot: {Alisae, Ircher, Theta Alpine, Doctor Drew}.

{DragonEater70}
{Save The Dragons}
{DKKoba}
{AniX}
{Bingle}
{Cook}
{Skygazer, Random Nurse}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Aureal, camelCasedSnivy}
{Alisae}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

The only player I'm

sure

's town is DragonEater70. Still, I'm relatively confident in the Save The Dragons - Bingle tiers. The Cook - Aureal tiers I think have a maximum of 2 scum within, likely fewer. I'm

very

confident in Drew/Theta scum, lean scum on Ircher, and Alisae's more I think e fits as scum with the other three and I don't vibe as town.

[Ranger]

I would like elaboration on Drew on Theta. Drew isn't very townie but I think they are more null for me right now? And Theta is nulltown.

Both are in their scum meta. I

could

elaborate; I want a massclaim before I do.

[Ranger]

61 - Thing is, is her fakeclaiming as Town a reliable Towntell in current games?

No, my first fakeclaim was scum. I've randed town every time after, alas.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse}
{AniX}
{Bingle}
{Cook}
{Skygazer}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Aureal, camelCasedSnivy}
{Alisae}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

P26.

[Ranger]

votecount 1.04

1 player voting for Doctor Drew (Ranger)

VOTE: doctor drew

VOTE: drew

I’m down to murder drew. VOTE: Drew

I wouldn't mind murdering Drew let's get him.
VOTE: Drew

VOTE: drew

I'm expecting this wagon to have dissolved by now.

I'll be disappointed at said inevitability, as it shouldn't.

If it did, I'd like to revitalize it by reminding everyone who voted Doctor Drew he's scum.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Adding this to the list in 989 to remind those who joined if they've since moved: come back please. Wagoning Doctor Drew was good.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{DKKoba, Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse}
{AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{Cook}
{Aureal, camelCasedSnivy}
{Alisae}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

P28.

[Ranger]

This is me not voting drew

If it wasn't obvious, I lied when I said STD was a strong scum power role I'd rather not bus.

Truth is, Doctor Drew's the strong scum power and Alisae's screaming in the scum chat to not bus Drew.

I'm a rebel.

[Ranger]

cannot decide if drewposting is +town or -town
i think +town

You think wrong. This is Doctor Drew's scum meta.

[Ranger]

Hmm, 742/746 subtly contain potential Ircher-town signs.

I might change my hipgun to {Alisae, Cook, Theta Alpine, Doctor Drew}.

Still,

for now

, reads list hasn't changed. I'm not convinced Ircher's town, just less sure he's scum.

{DragonEater70}
{DKKoba, Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse}
{AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{Cook}
{Aureal, camelCasedSnivy}
{Alisae}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70}
{DKKoba, Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{Cook, Aureal, camelCasedSnivy}
{Alisae}
{Ircher}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

More accurate, actually.

[Ranger]

Oops, one more change.

{DragonEater70}
{DKKoba, Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{Cook, Aureal, camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

ok im the most impatient person of all time but i think cook and drew are both mafia together
also feel weird abt how alisae is treating drew but thats a future koba problem

You can share a slot with DragonEater70 as top townread for the mindmeld.

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Cook}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

since my read on cook hinges on Drew, I won't be advocating to kill them today unless they reach a point where independently it can be determined they are scum more decisively other than the "followery" play

I agree. Killing Doctor Drew's best today.

[Ranger]

I agree with 803/804; Cook demonstrated an inconsistency between the Doctor Drew and Random Nurse wagons. Cook's treatment of Doctor Drew is suspect. Cook's focus there feels like that of a scumbuddy.

I prefer voting Doctor Drew though.

I agree that this game has been pretty productive (or at least prolific) and so I don't really feel the need for a massclaim anymore.

While hitting scum gives us the luxury of delaying massclaim, we've no guarantee aside from faith in the accuracy of, say, my read on Doctor Drew. I'm rather certain I'm right; if I was wrong, a mislim + no massclaim combo would be quite bad.

I'd prefer a Doctor Drew elimination.

I'd still prefer a massclaim first.

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Aureal}
{Ircher}
{Cook}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

Do we have a towncore?
*looks around in confusion*
Where?

Participants willing, I'd say {DragonEater70, DKKoba, Ranger, Save The Dragons} is a solid core of town players largely seeing the same things.
I'd wager {Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle, KatyKimFanClub} as town, too, yet I'm not sure they are on the same page as a towncore would be.

[Ranger]

I like 895 as town, regardless of accuracy.
I'd say there's decent odds Aureal's right, too.

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle}
{Aureal}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Cook}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

Huh? Ranger said she will stop lying when she's uninspired, which is clearly not now.

My claim was serious, for the record.

I

do

have inspiration for a role to fakeclaim which I asked the mod a bunch of questions about, I want to massclaim to show off my latest masterpiece, yet I don't want to claim until the players I'm most suspicious of have claimed.

[Ranger]

948, I agree with.

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle, Aureal}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Cook}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

[Ranger]

Okay I love this post and I know it's probably not alignment indicative to be funny but this is so funny I really wanna TR Ranger.

My playstyle's a mixture of casual tryharding, humor, and if I'm feeling bold, flirting. If I'm not entertaining, I've done something wrong.

[Ranger]

My claim was serious, for the record.

Oh, I know. I'm just saying you're not uninspired.

True enough. If we get my massclaim, you'll see my latest idea.

[Ranger]

Ranger, your thoughts on my scumcase on Ircher?

Ircher becomes more readable as the game progresses. Having read your case, I actually think it's slightly +town, yet too early to tell for sure. If he's scum, it'll become clear with time. Town, ditto. I lean away for now, yet don't wish to comment on what the town markers are, as they're weak.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons, Aureal}
{Random Nurse, AniX, Bingle}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Cook}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

Caught up. I feel good about these reads. I don't think my top 3 tiers have scum within. (I almost said 4, as KKFC's close.) I can

see

Skygazer/CCS/Ircher as scum, yet currently don't think they are. Cook's posts look town yet associatives are strongly +scum imo if my other scumreads are correct.

[Ranger]

Agh I hated it so much when I knew your claim didn't make sense but simultaneously knew you were town. I just couldn't wrap my head around it.

Frustrating scum is an endgoal of every Ranger game.

[Ranger]

on the one hand i do agree this seems like scum drew

Lol, being a little survivalistic there Theta?

theta discouraging massclaim is modifying my viewpoint of her
VOTE: Theta
let’s see something outta this slot

Nice try.

It'd work better if I hadn't been in a prior game with scum-Theta deliberately distancing with her scum partners.

[Ranger]

on the one hand i do agree this seems like scum drew

Lol, being a little survivalistic there Theta?

theta discouraging massclaim is modifying my viewpoint of her
VOTE: Theta
let’s see something outta this slot

Nice try.

It'd work better if I hadn't been in a prior game with scum-Theta deliberately distancing with her scum partners.

Let me be clear.

At every stage in the game, there will be those who say "Doctor Drew and Theta Alpine aren't scumbuddies", "Theta Alpine and Cook aren't scumbuddies", or "Cook and Doctor Drew aren't scumbuddies".

They'll point to the interactions happening on these two pages as evidence they're unaligned.

That's a mistake. It's a shame since in the future, players are likely to use the iso feature rather than viewing the content of the page. In the case they do, let me dissuade you from that erroneous belief. They can be, and likely are, scumbuddies.

[Ranger]

I think that you have a similar enough style and presence to ETL to be able to apply my old skills with her to reading you, and that post was specifically a reach out to show I'm interested in working with you this game. Do you think I'm more or less right about that comparison?

I actually don't know ETL. I vaguely recognize you're referring to EspeciallyTheLies. I know nothing of her, so I wouldn't know if it's apt or not.

Within my capacities (I can't iso, reread, or case people rn due to rl restrictions like helping my friend), I'll work with anyone willing to work with me, you included.

[Ranger]

I think that you have a similar enough style and presence to ETL to be able to apply my old skills with her to reading you, and that post was specifically a reach out to show I'm interested in working with you this game. Do you think I'm more or less right about that comparison?

I actually don't know ETL. I vaguely recognize you're referring to EspeciallyTheLies. I know nothing of her, so I wouldn't know if it's apt or not.

Small correction, I technically did play with her twice. In the first, I was scum; in the second, she was and killed me N1. So, I've no true familiarity with her, because we never interacted much. I don't remember much from our Blitz days though, unless I actually view the game in question. Was a different us, largely.

[Ranger]

theta and dragon are both towny ? not understanding the scumreads

Theta Alpine's playing like she does as scum, and I don't believe her claim. The latter will be more clear after a massclaim.

WRT Drew, he feels like a little bit muted version of his scumgame to me. Any thoughts on why he's somehow less than I'd expect from scumdrew?

He knows his scum meta and he knows this game has players who know his scum meta. In particular, I was able to correctly identify Doctor Drew was in his scum meta when other players thought he was out of it. He can try to change his meta, yet as long as I live, he has reason to respect me. My theory; he's muted because he knows he's not fooling me.

[Ranger]

@Ranger

- Do you think there are roles that would benefit from being hidden and not claimed d1 in this game? Additionally, do you think the benefits of massclaim outweigh the benefits of those roles staying hidden?

Yes to both.

There’s going to be roles which get more value hidden. Preventing early kills, allowing gambits, potentially turning soft guilties into hard, increasing success rate, etc.

I believe the benefits of massage outweigh the downsides of outing them.

Particularly as massclaim has been started already.

Whether you approve or not, once a massclaim is started, it must be finished. A half-complete massclaim is

tremendously

+scum. Because we started, we must finish, or else we get none of the benefits and get all the downsides.

[Ranger]

why is your default that I must be trying to 'change my meta'.......and not 'hey this is a different Drew, they might be town'.

I believe you're being deliberately disingenuous.

Bingle believes you're more subdued than your normal scumgame. He wanted to hear my theory as to why. I provided it. I still believe you're in your scum meta. I didn't say you were changing your meta. Quite the opposite. I said you were avoiding doing so, while I live.

[Ranger]

Where was I being deliberately disingenuous?

1135 and now 1153.

I didn't say you were trying to change your meta. I said you

could

.

[Ranger]

So far, I've got this, correct me if I'm wrong.

Fully Claimed?

Doctor Drew:

- Eternal Universal Backup, inherits the role of the last town player to die, for the entire game.

Theta Alpine:

Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.

DKKoba:

Miller of some kind, flips as random role in the game until that role dies.

Bingle:

Immune townie, can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist, can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.

Cook:

Modifier, gives random negative utility to target.

camelCasedSnivy:

3x Baker, gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on.

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer, reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)

Partial Claimed:

Ranger:

Miller, details beyond unclaimed.

AniX:

Ability triggers upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Might not have fullclaimed.

Skygazer:

Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions in some unspecified way.

Unclaimed?

Random Nurse:

Unclaimed

JasonWazza:

Unclaimed

DragonEater70:

Unclaimed?

Save The Dragons:

Unclaimed

Ircher:

Unclaimed

Aureal:

Unclaimed

[Ranger]

I'll say I believe I'm in the same role group as Cook and camelCasedSnivy. I won't say why yet; their claims seem to have something I believe puts them in the same writing wheelhouse as mine.

[Ranger]

Also how can you you read me when you can't even read my role claim properly?

I'm fairly certain I've read both correctly.

The last role to die, you inherit. If a cop dies N1, you become a cop. If a doc dies N2, you become a doc.

It occurs to me only now I've made a mistake in promoting massclaim; I'm beginning to suspect the scum have access to a list of all the roles not used as fakeclaims. I don't think the listmods submitted roles providing nearly no benefit to scum as exclusively the pool of scum roles. The scum roles I'd expect would be roles providing tangible benefit to scum, yet not explicitly only scum. (Think roleblocker, rolecop. Arson fits this as an example. Most claims don't.)

However, despite having not taken it into account earlier, at this stage regardless of if scum have those discards as fakeclaims, we must finish.

[Ranger]

that would be a really easy way to prevent a massclaim from directly rooting out scum to be honest

Unfortunately, I only thought of it now, when it's too late to change course, after I had evidence suggesting it as so.

Alas, despite my mistake, I believe finishing remains the best option, and we can view the claims with time. If scum did lie, it will show eventually. I still believe we can reasonably deduce real claims from fakeclaims, and town roles from truthful scum roles.

[Ranger]

Fully Claimed?

Doctor Drew:

- Eternal Universal Backup, inherits the role of the last town player to die, for the entire game.

There definitely is something off with you Ranger.

Perhaps my wording was unclear. When I said 'for the entire game', it was to 'inherits the last role to die', meaning the inheriting doesn't stop after having inherited. Ergo, not keeping prior roles.

[Ranger]

Where is the trolling and sly humor?

Here.

[Ranger]

Where is the trolling and sly humor?

Here.

I didn't expect open wolfing such as this from you tbh

Funny, I didn't expect you to lie about my posts, tbh.

[Ranger]

still waiting on this so called great claim from ranger

I'll claim at first available point. I’m V/LA every Sunday - Monday for work normally. Throw in a friend in need plus wedding prep, and I’m extra busy rn.

I

should

have the desktop access and time tomorrow. If not, then the soonest I’ll have both is Wednesday, as I’ve no free access on this specific Tuesday.

I’ll say right now: my role

directly

counters yours, and my Miller is an active, not passive. While I’ve reasons beyond roles for suspecting both of you, this is a contributing factor in both my Cook and Theta Alpine suspicion.

[Ranger]

really convenient that you just so happen to have a role that counters my role

I did leave evidence, which I can produce when not mobile.

A big reason I wanted a massclaim is so I'd know who to target.

[Ranger]

Wait do you think they're scummy partially for having a miller role

I think they’re scummy mostly by play. Yet, role contributes, as there’s no player who would investigate as scum to a cop. You'd flip as such, yet wouldn’t actually. I'd flip as only investigating as scum to a cop when using my power.

[Ranger]

also the lack of bringing forward anything isn't helping your case either ranger. you say massclaim and then don't lead the massclaim. ain't exactly exonerating

better have something good tomorrow

Oh, I do.

I did bring forward part of my role; Miller. I left out it being an active. I had good reasons to suspect scum would claim something incriminating if I held off on the details. I believe Theta Alpine did precisely that, as an example.

Regardless, I’ve no need for my claim to clear me. My role is something I'd actually expect more typically a scum role. It won’t clear me.

That'll be my play. Or my flip.

[Ranger]

if ranger doesnt have a good ass for not claiming ill sheep

I assure you, my ass is exceptional~
It alone justifies not claiming.

[Ranger]

if ranger doesnt have a good ass for not claiming ill sheep

I assure you, my ass is exceptional~
It alone justifies not claiming.

To be more serious, I don’t have an exceptionally good reason for not fullclaiming quickly. I’ve a

reason

, yet I doubt it meets your criteria of good.

Simply put, I believed scum would tailor their claims around my role to create better claims if I revealed too soon; I believed keeping the details hidden could potentially entrap scum.

[Ranger]

Where is the trolling and sly humor?

Here.

I didn't expect open wolfing such as this from you tbh

Funny, I didn't expect you to lie about my posts, tbh.

Funny, since you lied about mine....tbh.

Considering my iso has no commentary about your posts beyond calling disingenuous posts what they are, that'd be quite the feat. I'm fairly certain I've told no lies about your posts. You on the other hand are blatantly making things up about mine.

[Ranger]

Also is anyone ever planning to vote Ircher or Drew? What's up with that?

I'm likely never moving my vote off Doctor Drew, realistically speaking.

I

might

move to Theta Alpine or Cook.

I'm not going anywhere else, honestly.

[Ranger]

As a reminder; soonest I've the time and access would be about 12 hours from now.

As previously stated, I'm completely unavailable tomorrow. So if I can't find the time today, it'll be on Wednesday.


I'll say 1308 isn't quite true; I'd vote anyone I'd be okay with eliminating today, if need be. Since I don't want to vote Alisae and I only have four scumreads, those three are the players I'm okay eliminating rn. Obviously, this could change. For now, it hasn't.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Save The Dragons, Aureal}
{Random Nurse}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{Skygazer}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Cook}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

Random Nurse - Ircher tiers may be stale and need adjusting, will take a better look when properly catching up.

[Ranger]

This he said/she said is anti town in that it’s just causing thread bloat. If you have actual posts that were lies point them out. If not, we get it you’re 1v1ing.

I assure you I had no intention of he/she said or 1v1ing. It’s hard to resist a golden opportunity for snarking. Since you believe it antitown, I’ll manage.

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Save The Dragons, Aureal}
{Random Nurse, KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy}
{Skygazer, Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Cook}
{Theta Alpine}
{Doctor Drew}

Still need to properly read areas I skimming. Particularly, I need refreshers on the StD/Nurse tiers. They may move up or down.

At this point, I'd

compromise

on anyone Skygazer tier or below. I’ll only be

happy

voting the bottom three tiers.

[Ranger]

Did Ranger ever fullclaim?

Not yet. Paraphrasing from a phone is painful. I'd prefer to wait until I have a computer and the time.

I’ll at least share the basic though.
I remove all passives and modifiers from my target. As I said: a

direct

counter to Cook's role, as well as a role which would bypass the limitations on Theta Alpine's role. All it’d take for Theta Alpine to treestump town is my removal of her modifier.

Thus my skepticism of both.

As I said, I’ll fullclaim when I’ve the ability to properly paraphrase.

[Ranger]

could you remove my compulsive modifier so i can play vanilla w/o giving my vote away or redirecting actions

Temporarily? Yes. I remove it for that night and the following day. So, N1+D2; N2+D3; etc.

[Ranger]

oh wow
a role i did not consider the possibility of

Yeah, that's why I wanted to wait.

I figured scum wouldn't consider my role.

[Ranger]

If anything it conflicts more with mine. I'm not sure which of ours would take precedence: your removal of the modifier preventing my role change or my role preventing my role from being changed, and I'm intrigued by the fact that didn't occur to you.

Well, why would I ask the mod about removing a bulletproof townie's bulletproof? I believe you're town. My targeting you would never be. For academic interest I could ask. It's never an action I'd take.

[Ranger]

how do you think im in the same group though

How many roles do you suppose have a themed name? You're a Baker, who bakes goods. Cook's a Modifier, who modifies players. And I? Am a Passifizer, who temporarily disables passives and modifiers.

[Ranger]

they should have claimed after everyone else with that in mind but
too late for that

You don't say.

Almost like I knew this and deliberately held off for this very reason.

At this stage, I think it's fine. I wouldn't be claiming otherwise. I believe the roles from my listmod have claimed. I believe there's potentially scum caught in their claims, due to mine. It's possible more scum would've been found had I waited; it's possible scum can use my claim to craft better fakeclaims. Still,

most

of the game had claimed, and I felt revealing now was acceptable.

[Ranger]

This isn't a bad case

Depends. It sure is a disingenuous case in part because Doctor Drew is using that word apparently not knowing what it means. If I thought it contained anything worth commenting on, I'd do so. The entire thing is disingenuous tho.

[Ranger]

Did Ranger ever fullclaim?

Not yet. Paraphrasing from a phone is painful. I'd prefer to wait until I have a computer and the time.

I’ll at least share the basic though.
I remove all passives and modifiers from my target. As I said: a

direct

counter to Cook's role, as well as a role which would bypass the limitations on Theta Alpine's role. All it’d take for Theta Alpine to treestump town is my removal of her modifier.

Thus my skepticism of both.

As I said, I’ll fullclaim when I’ve the ability to properly paraphrase.

To give the full claim. I'm a passifizer. During nights, I can target a player. All passives + modifiers stop functioning until next night. If I use it, I investigate as scum that night.

Mod clarification:
To benefit from my role, the player needs to be able to act already. A 1x cop who used their shot on a previous night, despite having the 1x modifier disabled by me, wouldn't be able to successfully submit a cop action.
My targets aren't informed of my success.
Scum chat/kills, and day votes/talking, aren't impacted.
If I used my action and flipped, I wouldn't be considered a miller posthumously.

[Ranger]

do the clarifications that drew put forth in the list at least change ur perspective on anything and help adjust your reasoning, and change any conclusions?

Nothing Doctor Drew's posted has changed any conclusion I've made about him and what he's posted.

[Ranger]

You can't just say words and expect everyone to know what you mean.

Sure I can, when they have an established meaning.

not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

1158/1141 are self-contained. It WAS the explanation. In 1135/1153, you claimed I was saying you were changing your meta. I didn't say that. By arguing something I didn't say, you were being...
...guess. (Disingenuous.)

You've been repeatedly twisting my words the entire time. 1420 is disingenuous, because that's self-evidently not what I said. Nothing has changed my read because you've been spouting more of the same nonsense continuously. That doesn't mean nothing could. It meant exactly what I said.

992 was me making a joke, so using it as if it were dead serious is... (yup.)

In 1174, you asked where my trolling and sly humor has been. I answered with a link to my iso because both traits have been present my entire iso. It was itself a sufficient (as well as snarky) answer. So 1178 was...

...you get the idea.

[Ranger]

I have seen townRanger quite a bit, I wasn't joking when I said it seems like she is doing her best scumTitus impression......she is being stubborn, not listening to reason, and hate to say it again lol...... completely disingenuous.

Those are scum traits.

I'm not the player displaying them.

[Ranger]

I also think that when u start lying about meta like that to make a point its not from a town POV

Almost like the word to describe it is...

[Ranger]

Fully Claimed?

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.

DKKoba:

Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist - can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group.)

camelCasedSnivy:

3x Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on.
(I suspect is in my role group.)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group?)

Ircher:

Day-Neighborizer, loses vote on following day.

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).

Partial Claimed:

Skygazer:

Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions in some unspecified way.

Unclaimed?

Random Nurse:

Unclaimed

JasonWazza:

Unclaimed

DragonEater70:

Unclaimed

Aureal:

Unclaimed


I think this is accurate so far.

[Ranger]

But the bigger issue is that you know my scum meta, and still pushing that this is it.....which is objectively incorrect.

Currently, you're actually correct.

At the time I said it, you were within your scum meta.

Now, you've diverged from the typical.

Given the events so far, my current belief is you're scum who deliberately changed your game in response to my 1141. There was a marked switch in your playstyle pre-1141 and post-1141. Pre-1141, you were playing precisely as expected as scum, albeit somewhat muted, per Bingle. Post-1141, you've demonstrated a continuously disingenuous tunnel on me. This is a divergence from your established scum meta. However, I believe it's a caricature of your towngame, rather than the genuine article.

Facts, that you are twisting to your terrible take on this game.

There's a player doing this. It certainly isn't me.

[Ranger]

it comes off as shallow in an untrustworthy manner. you might also call that… everybody say it with me now…

<3 Disingenuous <3

[Ranger]

{DragonEater70, DKKoba}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Random Nurse, KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy}
{Save The Dragons, Aureal}
{Skygazer, Ircher}
{Alisae}
{Theta Alpine}
{Cook}
{Doctor Drew}

STD tier's just a lack of reading the slots. Theta Alpine, I've gained some doubts about her being scum.

These reads aren't great, ideally I'd have read more. Alas, I'm tapped out.

[Ranger]

I finally have a little bit of time to play. Gonna look back over from when I last posted and try to catch up.

/confirmed and waiting.

HI YOU TWO WE'RE MASSCLAIMING
PLEASE GIVE US YOUR CLAIMS, EVERYONE IS WAITING

I'll vouch: this isn't a meme or joke or reaction test. We legitimately

are

massclaiming; your slots are two of the last to have not.

Although I'll note if Aureal claimed, I don't have a record of it either.

[Ranger]

Ranger can you answer my question regarding my claim, assuming that I am in fact NOT a miller?

I must have missed it, unless it was the question you yourself said you didn’t understand, after you asked it.

You weren't alone. I can’t parse the question. If it is what you meant, can you try rewording it?

[Ranger]

Considering that you are fakeclaiming.

I’m actually telling the truth about my role. I may have made some assumptions off my questions likely not being optimally worded; to my knowledge, I am telling the truth. I believe spicing things up is detrimental right now, and truthful claims would be best.

If you believe I’m fakeclaiming, then let me know the part in question so I can clarify it.

[Ranger]

Apologies. I can give precious little to this game today.

I'll say Ircher's town; where exactly he is on my readslist, unable to provide today. Sorry.

[Ranger]

someone gonna play or

Apologies. I've a limited amount of free time given wedding prep and friend stuff, plus other irl stressors like work.

I'll finish compiling the claims and give updated thoughts as I can. May not be tonight. Realistically, if it's not within the next 24 hours it won't be until Monday at soonest. As I've no desire for things to stall until then, I'll see if I can squeeze in activity. Sorry for the delays.

[Ranger]

Honestly I would appreciate a full claims list if somebody wants to make one because all the claims are kinda fuzzy in my head.

That's my duty, when I've the time for it. (Again, apologies I've been so busy. This week is...hectic.)

[Ranger]

I'm too wiped from the wedding for true contributions here.

As I said, first realistic time I'll be free is likely Monday; apologies for not pulling my weight rn.

[Ranger]

Hope you had a good time!

I did, I just feel guilty I'm not here when this game owes my time to be invested.

Tomorrow should be free.

[Ranger]

Okay.
Ngl, I'm multitasking; my head's not fully here. I'm also ludicrously behind.
I'll try my best to make up for lost time regardless.

[Ranger]

(I'm starting from page 58, which should get me up to date on the roles.)

I'll repost this part as I see roles are still being discussed.

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

3x Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

While I'm still working on the full list, I believe per the rule of four, this group contains scum. {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} should contain scum, and of them I believe Cook is scum by both play (I townread the other two) and by claim. As a reminder, my role's a

direct counter

to Cook's, and Cook's role is explicitly a negative utility role to actually use. Were I voting off mechanics more than play rn, I'd be voting Cook. (The Doctor Drew slot's still scum by play.)

[Ranger]

Maybe this is overly paranoid, but Baker and Oracle are both roles that were on EpicMafia? I know there was basically every role on EpicMafia but those were roles that were played somewhat frequently?

implosion actually came from EpicMafia if I recall correctly, and might be the only listmod who did. It'd be somewhat weird for the Normal listmod to submit all Themed role names; I can definitely see it as possible.

[Ranger]

also how is having two roles that counter each other +scum

Doctor has utility to the town.
Vig has utility to the town.
They can counter each other, yet individually provide utility.

I negate passives and modifiers. While this

could

be +scum if used badly (ungating scum, removing a

positive

modifier from town), used properly, this is a massively +town ability because it removes the negative utility from roles which were balanced by having them. (By 'balanced', I mean by their designer.)

You create, explicitly negative, modifiers. While there's theoretical utility

if

you target correctly

and

the modifier provided is actually truly negative, it's a power which shouldn't be used.

The interaction between our two roles is akin to that of a Strongwilled Inventor (me) vs. Roleblocker (you).

If you received a Strongwilled Inventor and saw a Roleblocker claim, what alignment would you think the Roleblocker? Because Strongwilled Inventor is a

direct counter

to the Roleblocker in that scenario.

Same reason here.

Could

our roles both be town? Sure. Yet the groups of four must contain one scum within, and if I'm correct about our group, it means

someone

there is scum, and my bet's on the player whose role my role directly counters.

VOTE: Cook

[Ranger]

i am still on the side of cook and drew possibly being aligned with each other and not aligned with town

I agree.

For the record, I'm not feeling my Theta Alpine scumread anymore, which does leave me with too few scumreads.

{DragonEater70}
{DKKoba, Bingle, AniX, Ircher, Random Nurse, KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy}
{Save The Dragons}
{Political Clout}
{Alisae, Theta Alpine}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Cook}
{Doctor Drew}

This is as of P62. There's

slightly

stale reads. Koba, Bingle, AniX, Save The Dragons.
There's

badly

stale reads. Aureal, Skygazer. (They're not scumreads, despite their position.)

Yet, my two core scumreads (Cook, Doctor Drew) feel good, and the townreads I have, I mostly remember and still think valid. So, I'm likely wrong somewhere. I'm hoping fully catching up will help me find where.

[Ranger]

By the way, this is where I am with two of the groups.

PenguinPower?

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Implosion?

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an em player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

3x Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)


If I got another I could group as being "PenguinPower", that would be another group of four containing one scum. I'm still working through things as I go.

[Ranger]

it is limited to 3 shots but its not in the name

This tracks with being in my role group. My entire role is one word, with all the powers, limitations, restrictions, etc. within. Modify 1997 with this. (The full list will reflect this.)

[Ranger]

My role is town sensitive tracker.

Still working on the full breakdown; so far this gives me four, speculative, groups.

nonstandard role with modifier group?

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Political Clout:

Sensitive(can't act night after targeting different alignment) Tracker.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Might be part of my speculative "nonstandard modifier, standard role" group, with the modifier being the entire role for Bingle.

PenguinPower?

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Implosion?

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an em player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

[Ranger]

town temporary death miller

That's actually huge, imo, as if my speculation is correct...that gives a second complete group of four.
While 5/24 roles weren't used, any group of four must contain scum.

nonstandard role with modifier group?

-

2/4 names

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

PenguinPower?

-

3/4 names

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DKKoba:

Temporary Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group. The mechanics of the Death Miller are slightly unusual, in a way similar to the mechanics of the Universal Backup.

Political Clout:

Sensitive Tracker - can't act night after targeting different alignment.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Might be part of my speculative "nonstandard modifier, standard role" group, with the modifier being the entire role for Bingle.

In this group, HURT: Doctor Drew

Implosion?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an EM player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

In this group, HURT: Cook

[Ranger]

how does your role neatly fit in and boost the power of an entirely separate role bucket?

Coincidence.

I'm part of the single-word-role-title bracket. Discussing the structure has been ruled illegal; still, the formatting within is obvious to all who have it. Modifiers, restrictions, etc., all not listed in the role name, instead laid out in the details of the role PM. (This should be legal to state as sharing role names is legal, and it follows any modifiers not included in the role title must by proxy be within the role itself.)

There are four, and precisely four, role PMs with this structure. Yours among them.

I believe these roles are all reminiscent of EpicMafia roles.

[Ranger]

you opened with a miller claim (something that it seems that you've done in the past) and then don't claim until

after

everyone else has claimed and then your role fits with one bucket and augments the powers of another

Nice try.

Sadly, you're missing critical facts. I've not claimed miller in any past game. I breadcrumbed my role heavily as well. I might not have

shared

these breadcrumbs; they're very obvious when you search. I was on a lookout specifically for negative utility roles to remove their negative utility.

[Ranger]

we have seen evidence to suggest there are some themes going on

Nearly complete on my end, I only need to finish Random Nurse/DragonEater70 claims and see if I can spot a pattern in them compared to the existing groups and Ircher/Alisae.

Given setup math, it's rather likely the remainder don't fit into the existing pattern and are either parts of new patterns or solo. (I'll explain this when giving the full. Essentially, every group of 4 confirmed present reduces the number in other groups by proxy. Since we have at least two full groups of four, we similarly have multiple groups which will be largely unused and empty.)

[Ranger]

personally id like groupings to see how it may differ from mine, but thats selfish and ill let others choose

I'm liking mine. I've placed Random Nurse tentatively, which leaves only Ircher, Alisae, and DragonEater70 unplaced. I'll post once I get to reading DE70's claim.

[Ranger]

Why not full claim?

Speaking of, Ircher, I've got some question marks on your claim; can you clarify your role more specifically?

[Ranger]

REMINDER:
6 listmods submitted 4 roles each: 3 town, 1 scum.
Of those 24 roles, only 17 were used.
There should be six groups of roles in total, with seven roles randomly subtracted from them.
This means there's

theoretically

enough for one group to be entirely absent, and one group to only have a single role. This is the most extreme and would leave the other four groups full at 4/4.
More realistically, most groups should have ~3. However, any group with 4/4 guarantees netting scum. (Every group of 4 increases the odds of other groups being smaller.)

Group 6 -

Leftovers2

-

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist - can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.
I don't know, tbh. Arsonist is a standard role, and it has a standard modifier. Nobody else has this.

Group 5 -

Leftovers

-

Ircher:

Day-Neighborizer, loses vote on following day.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

Group 4 -

nonstandard role with modifier group?

-

3/4 names

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Random Nurse:

Non-Consecutive Enforcer - rolestopper for everything except nightkills.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Group 3 -

PenguinPower?

-

3/4 names

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Group 2 -

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DKKoba:

Temporary Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group. The mechanics of the Death Miller are slightly unusual, in a way similar to the mechanics of the Universal Backup.

Political Clout:

Sensitive Tracker - can't act night after targeting different alignment.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Might be part of my speculative "nonstandard modifier, standard role" group, with the modifier being the entire role for Bingle.

In this group, HURT: Doctor Drew

Group 1 -

Implosion?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an EM player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

In this group, HURT: Cook

[Ranger]

REMINDER:
6 listmods submitted 4 roles each: 3 town, 1 scum.
Of those 24 roles, only 17 were used.
There should be six groups of roles in total, with seven roles randomly subtracted from them.
This means there's

theoretically

enough for one group to be entirely absent, and one group to only have a single role. This is the most extreme and would leave the other four groups full at 4/4.
More realistically, most groups should have ~3. However, any group with 4/4 guarantees netting scum. (Every group of 4 increases the odds of other groups being smaller.)

Group 6 -

Leftovers2

-

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist - can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.
I don't know, tbh. Arsonist is a standard role, and it has a standard modifier. Nobody else has this.

Group 5 -

Leftovers

-

Ircher:

Day-Neighborizer, loses vote on following day.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

Group 4 -

nonstandard role with modifier group?

-

3/4 names

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Random Nurse:

Non-Consecutive Enforcer - rolestopper for everything except nightkills.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Group 3 -

PenguinPower?

-

3/4 names

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Group 2 -

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DKKoba:

Temporary Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group. The mechanics of the Death Miller are slightly unusual, in a way similar to the mechanics of the Universal Backup.

Political Clout:

Sensitive Tracker - can't act night after targeting different alignment.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Might be part of my speculative "nonstandard modifier, standard role" group, with the modifier being the entire role for Bingle.

In this group, HURT: Doctor Drew

Group 1 -

Implosion?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an EM player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

In this group, HURT: Cook

It should be noted, each group should contain no more than one scum;
Only 4/6 groups should have scum.

I honestly don't know who the remaining two scum are.
It could be Alisae; I don't scumread em.
It could be one of Ircher/DragonEater; I townread both.
It could be one of Theta/Skygazer/Nurse; I townread all.
It likely is one of STD/AniX/Aureal; of them I'd say Aureal's the most likely.

The soonest we should need to worry about this is D3, as if I'm right, Drew/Cook D1/D2 give us half the scumteam and six conftown.

[Ranger]

DragonEater70 and Political Clout are in the same group is my guess

This is certainly possible. If so, swap Bingle and DragonEater70 in which groups they're part of.

It depends slightly on the role names. It could be this.

REMINDER:
6 listmods submitted 4 roles each: 3 town, 1 scum.
Of those 24 roles, only 17 were used.
There should be six groups of roles in total, with seven roles randomly subtracted from them.
This means there's

theoretically

enough for one group to be entirely absent, and one group to only have a single role. This is the most extreme and would leave the other four groups full at 4/4.
More realistically, most groups should have ~3. However, any group with 4/4 guarantees netting scum. (Every group of 4 increases the odds of other groups being smaller.)

Group 6 -

Leftovers2

-

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist - can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.
I don't know, tbh. Arsonist is a standard role, and it has a standard modifier. Nobody else has this.

Group 5 -

Leftovers

-

Ircher:

Day-Neighborizer, loses vote on following day.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

Group 4 -

nonstandard role with modifier group?

-

3/4 names

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Random Nurse:

Non-Consecutive Enforcer - rolestopper for everything except nightkills.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Group 3 -

PenguinPower?

-

3/4 names

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Group 2 -

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DKKoba:

Temporary Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group. The mechanics of the Death Miller are slightly unusual, in a way similar to the mechanics of the Universal Backup.

Political Clout:

Sensitive Tracker - can't act night after targeting different alignment.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Might be part of my speculative "nonstandard modifier, standard role" group, with the modifier being the entire role for Bingle.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

In this group, HURT: Doctor Drew

Group 1 -

Implosion?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an EM player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

In this group, HURT: Cook[/quote]It should be noted, each group should contain no more than one scum;
Only 4/6 groups should have scum.

I honestly don't know who the remaining two scum are.
It could be Alisae; I don't scumread em.
It could be one of Ircher/DragonEater; I townread both.
It could be one of Theta/Skygazer/Nurse; I townread all.
It likely is one of STD/AniX/Aureal; of them I'd say Aureal's the most likely.

The soonest we should need to worry about this is D3, as if I'm right, Drew/Cook D1/D2 give us half the scumteam and six conftown.

[Ranger]

Oops, botched final section.

DragonEater70 and Political Clout are in the same group is my guess

This is certainly possible. If so, swap Bingle and DragonEater70 in which groups they're part of.

It depends slightly on the role names. It could be this.

REMINDER:
6 listmods submitted 4 roles each: 3 town, 1 scum.
Of those 24 roles, only 17 were used.
There should be six groups of roles in total, with seven roles randomly subtracted from them.
This means there's

theoretically

enough for one group to be entirely absent, and one group to only have a single role. This is the most extreme and would leave the other four groups full at 4/4.
More realistically, most groups should have ~3. However, any group with 4/4 guarantees netting scum. (Every group of 4 increases the odds of other groups being smaller.)

Group 6 -

Leftovers2

-

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist - can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.
I don't know, tbh. Arsonist is a standard role, and it has a standard modifier. Nobody else has this.

Group 5 -

Leftovers

-

Ircher:

Day-Neighborizer, loses vote on following day.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

Group 4 -

nonstandard role with modifier group?

-

3/4 names

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Random Nurse:

Non-Consecutive Enforcer - rolestopper for everything except nightkills.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Group 3 -

PenguinPower?

-

3/4 names

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Group 2 -

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DKKoba:

Temporary Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group. The mechanics of the Death Miller are slightly unusual, in a way similar to the mechanics of the Universal Backup.

Political Clout:

Sensitive Tracker - can't act night after targeting different alignment.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Might be part of my speculative "nonstandard modifier, standard role" group, with the modifier being the entire role for Bingle.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

In this group, HURT: Doctor Drew

Group 1 -

Implosion?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an EM player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

In this group, HURT: Cook

It should be noted, each group should contain no more than one scum;
Only 4/6 groups should have scum.

I honestly don't know who the remaining two scum are.
It could be Alisae; I don't scumread em.
It could be one of Ircher/

DragonEater

Bingle

; I townread both.
It could be one of Theta/Skygazer/Nurse; I townread all.
It likely is one of STD/AniX/Aureal; of them I'd say Aureal's the most likely.

The soonest we should need to worry about this is D3, as if I'm right, Drew/Cook D1/D2 give us half the scumteam and six conftown.

Fix'd.

[Ranger]

Reflecting, I actually like 2018's sets more.

If I got it correct, then with Doctor Drew and Cook scum, we've got six conftown, scum either shoot among those six conftown or let DE70 investigate, and DE70 if left alive generates a result on one of the unsorted four tiers.

[Ranger]

Cook and Ranger are probably not from the same submitter because of the dichotomy in style. Cook's role is poorly explained and poorly defined, Rangers takes the time to acknowledge that both modifiers and passives are being suppressed.

I strongly disagree. The style's identical if you hold the role and know what it is. Specifying's sadly against the rules so I'd rather not get force-replaced or worse for providing two details. However, I'm 100% certain about the members of my group being precisely those four players.

The other groups are speculation. Speculation I feel is very good, yet speculation regardless. I'm not wrong about Cook being in my group, designed by the same mod.

[Ranger]

{KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy, Political Clout, DKKoba}

(all on the caveats of Drew/Cook flipping scum)

{DragonEater70}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Ircher, Random Nurse}
{Save The Dragons, Theta Alpine}
{Alisae}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Doctor Drew}
{Cook}

Loose reads. I'm confident in the top three and bottom two tiers. The middle four are more flexible.

[Ranger]

if ranger targets me with their ability then if mafia shoots dragoneater then i can just
treestump dragoneater and we get the result anyways

I plan on this.

[Ranger]

Ranger took Bingles job cant believe this

Actually, Bingle was filling in for me; since I'm back, it's mine again.

[Ranger]

i should note it is guaranteed that at least one role from each listmod is present

I missed that detail. It doesn't change much, yet is noteworthy.

[Ranger]

you opened with a miller claim (something that it seems that you've done in the past) and then don't claim until

after

everyone else has claimed and then your role fits with one bucket and augments the powers of another

Nice try.

Sadly, you're missing critical facts. I've not claimed miller in any past game. I breadcrumbed my role heavily as well. I might not have

shared

these breadcrumbs; they're very obvious when you search. I was on a lookout specifically for negative utility roles to remove their negative utility.

why then do we have

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

not this shit again

what's that about

What indeed. Perhaps reading the thread would be of use to answering, as the circumstances behind CCS's comment have been discussed previously.

[Ranger]

but if we want to give dragoneater an actual shot at using their ability in order to chain ability confirmations we could no lim to be safe

What do we gain from letting DragonEater70 investigate by nolimming? Assuming it goes through, a single town player, statistically speaking. If DragonEater70 hit scum, it'd be better, sure; by the odds, still unlikely.

What do we lose from nolimming to guarantee it? Assuming scum shoot, a single town player.

A nolim breaks even

if

nothing goes wrong.

Personally, I'd prefer eliminating scum today. If we get it right, DE70 still gets an invest anyway. If we get it wrong, then at least we didn't put the game on hold for a single investigation where we likely break even.

I suppose the question then is simply this; do you believe the

chance

of getting a guilty warrants a

guaranteed

loss of eliminating scum today?

I don't. I'd prefer a chance to eliminate scum, which if right, gives a chance of a guilty still.

[Ranger]

Great, Ranger's here now too. Can you and Theta like, talk to Bingle for me because you all seem to have some disagreements about how your roles interact with mine.

Honestly, I don't understand your role.

I don't think you're lying about it; despite this, you've decent chance of being scum regardless.

[Ranger]

Sensitive - I will be informed of any abilities at night that could have caused my result to be inaccurate. examples include: are not limited to, bus drivers, ninjas, and redirectors. etc. I will not know who these abilities affected, or whether they actually made my result inaccurate.

That doesn't change my grouping any; it does give me an excuse to repost.

REMINDER:
6 listmods submitted 4 roles each: 3 town, 1 scum.
Of those 24 roles, only 17 were used, 1 guaranteed from each group.
There should be six groups of roles in total, with seven roles randomly subtracted from them.
Most groups should have ~3. However, any group with 4/4 guarantees netting scum. (Every group of 4 increases the odds of other groups being smaller.)

Group 6 -

Leftovers2

-

Alisae:

1x ignite arsonist - can mark one person per night up to two, can ignite once in game killing marked targets.
I don't know, tbh. Arsonist is a standard role, and it has a standard modifier. Nobody else has this.

Group 5 -

Leftovers

-

Ircher:

Day-Neighborizer, loses vote on following day.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

Bingle:

Immune townie - can't be altered in any way/shape/form, can choose between bp or ascetic.
Educated guess: there's only six groups, these roles don't fit in the below, but don't match with Alisae's.

Group 4 -

nonstandard role with modifier group?

-

3/4 names

Theta Alpine:

Desperate Treevivor Doomer - Temporary treestump of those investigating as a different alignment to her, must be used within 24 hours of the player's death.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Skygazer:

Compulsive Loan Shark - Gives people control of vote on even days. Takes control of actions of the player on the following night.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Random Nurse:

Non-Consecutive Enforcer - rolestopper for everything except nightkills.
Speculation, nonstandard roles with modifiers paired together.

Group 3 -

PenguinPower?

-

3/4 names

Save The Dragons:

Hotelier - Neighborizes two players, but only for that night. (This is PenguinPower's, presumably. The listmod needed awareness of Community Redux.)
Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the Hotelier(which actually

was

a cult), this is probably the same group of roles.

AniX:

Restricted Joat of some kind. Three 1x abilities triggered upon performing certain actions or lack thereof during the day. Delayer (not voting restriction), tracker (vote crazy), vig (tunnel vote).
Presumably, paired with Aureal's group. Speculation; given the similarity between Aureal's claim and the cult-Hotelier, if AniX is also in the group, these three would all be together.

Aureal:

Amway Seller? (Basically a cult without the alignment.) Opens neighborhood with people, who then get to accept, requires a sales pitch (dayplay-related). People in neighborhood gain access to all abilities within, more people = more abilities available. However, people within can't use powers beyond the set offered while within, and must use a night action to leave. One of the powers is a neighborizer, which spreads the powers. Powers:1 in, message; 3 in, neighborhood; 6 in, roleblock + auto-recruit; 10 in, vig. (Being honest, I really don't wrap my head around Aureal's claim. I think the grouping's accurate spec though.)
Presumably, paired with AniX's group. Speculation; given the similarity between this role and the Hotelier cult role, they are presumably in the same role group.

Group 2 -

nonstandard modifier standard role group?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

Doctor Drew:

Eternal Universal Backup - inherits the role of the last town player to die, continuously.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DKKoba:

Temporary Death Miller - flips as random scum role in the game until that role dies.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group. The mechanics of the Death Miller are slightly unusual, in a way similar to the mechanics of the Universal Backup.

Political Clout:

Sensitive Tracker - is aware of any results which could cause result to be inaccurate, but not if result actually is.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

DragonEater70:

Cop who loses role when town is eliminated.
Bit speculative here, I think the standard roles with nonstandard modifiers are a group.

In this group, HURT: Doctor Drew

Group 1 -

Implosion?

-

4/4 names;

must contain scum

(possible epicmafia player, implosion was an EM player)

Ranger:

Passifizer - Disables passives/modifiers for that night and following day, becomes miller during night when using.
I suspect I'm in the {Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} group by the similar role naming scheme.

Cook:

Modifier - gives random negative utility to target.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

camelCasedSnivy:

Baker - gives out goods which can self-roleblock when eaten, baked goods can be passed on, can only be used three times.
(I suspect is in my role group. I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

KatyKimFanClub:

Revealer - reveals a random player's role if killed. (Sounds like what some call the Oracle role.)
(Might be in my role group? I believe my group, by the role names as a clue, is {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.)

In this group, HURT: Cook

It should be noted, each group should contain no more than one scum;
Only 4/6 groups should have scum.

If I'm right, Drew/Cook D1/D2 give us half the scumteam and six conftown.

[Ranger]

It is also a

guaranteed

gain of not eliminating another town player.

In a 9p Cop + Doc vs Roleblocker setup, no-limming D1's a guarantee of not eliminating the doctor, cop, or any town.

What would your response be to a player suggesting a nolim D1 in that setup?

Same deal here.

Your logic applies to every game on mafiascum. Every game would guarantee no town elimination on D1 if they nolim D1.

There's good reason we take the risk.

[Ranger]

aureal->delta->cook
At least 2 mafia die here

As Cook's guaranteed scum, I prefer there first. Delta's acceptable as the Doctor Drew slot.

I think there's a reasonably high chance Aureal's scum. I'm

positive

Cook is, and

very

confident the Doctor Drew slot is.

[Ranger]

O ya kkfc is mafia too

Game mechanics make that impossible if Cook is (which she is), as KKFC is in Cook's role grouping and there can only be one scum per group.

[Ranger]

I thought Ranger was the Epicmafia pro here.

Only for 2008-2010 era EpicMafia, with the close-to-original set of roles. If my four accounts were combined, I'd have had one of the highest points total in the type which didn't periodically reset. After the introduction of ranked lobbies, verified accounts, loss of the original classical setups, and role explosion (going from only a couple new roles to dozens), I lost my expertise card.

I still recognize implosion as a player from my era and there

are

signs of the roles being EpicMafiaesque in design.

[Ranger]

Spoiler: nongame-related;

Small plurality ramble, the Ranger on EpicMafia would actually go on to be the main fronter for someone else. On most areas of the internet, Ranger is made up of the least-vulgar of our facets, with the more vulgar ones gathering around a different banner.

On EpicMafia, it was actually the other way around. EpicMafia's Ranger was the vulgar facets gathered around, with the EpicMafia account featuring all our non-vulgar facets actually being the other account.

We didn't know about plurality while we played on EpicMafia, and didn't have the differences as established, so which facets piloted which name were inverted. EpicMafia Ranger wasn't us; we were known under a different name, with that name being totally different on mafiascum due to them being the EpicMafia Ranger.

[Ranger]

Guys, for the love of al that is holy. Please. I beg of you. Let's vote scummy players rather than toying around with mech and arriving at a net 0 gain.

I agree.

If we were to go for mech, we should vote Cook (guaranteed) or Deltabreedy (likely).

If we go by play, we should vote Cook (still sus by play) or Deltabreedy(sus by virtue of Doctor Drew and their lackluster entrance upon replacing in).

By both metrics, they're both good eliminations. So I'm fine with either.

[Ranger]

Wow I just realized I think you had this avatar on the EM site, right? I vaguely remember it all of a sudden.

No, EpicMafia Ranger's avatar was one of our first two avatars ever, technically the first ever made specifically for us.

The original has been lost to the depths of time as it came from the darkthrone beta, yet a highly pixelated/compressed copy remains.

Spoiler: it does contain my deadname though

That was the EM Ranger avatar.

[Ranger]

Ranger it'd be lovely if you'd actually give any sort of explanation of your reads. You've had some noticeable shifts, but then again you weren't explaining your reads in the first place so I don't know why you thought DE was towny in the first place when he's been rather scummy all game and has just decided to start scraping the bottom of the scum-barrel with nonsense.

Simply put, I instalocked DragonEater70 as scum last game when he actually was. Trusting that wasn't a fluke, he's town here. His play feels radically different as well. He's more active, his tone's better, and his content more varied.

[Ranger]

Sure if 100% of your reads are based in mechs it doesn't help but revealing a slots alignment helps inform night actions better

This is why I'd purge either Cook or Delta.

Delta got a scum role PM upon replacing in and is lost on what to do. Doctor Drew was in his scum meta, tried to diverge from it with a disingenuous attack on me, yet failed.

Cook's early play was strong, then she fell off a cliff. Her momentum died, and when she noted I was honing in on her, her approach and attitude abruptly changed.

Both have interactions with each other strongly indicating they're partnered.

This, aside from my guarantee Cook's in my group of four and speculation Delta/Drew's in a second group of four guaranteed to contain scum.

[Ranger]

I present to you Ranger's explicit intent to fake claim:

Spoiler:

I

do

have inspiration for a role to fakeclaim which I asked the mod a bunch of questions about, I want to massclaim to show off my latest masterpiece, yet I don't want to claim until the players I'm most suspicious of have claimed.

My claim was serious, for the record.

Oh, I know. I'm just saying you're not uninspired.

True enough. If we get my massclaim, you'll see my latest idea.

Hilariously, these were breadcrumbing my actual role. My "wait until you see my fakeclaim" was actually my cheeky way of hinting at my real role.

[Ranger]

I'm willing to look for a D1 lim elsewhere.

Cook and the continuously-absent Deltabreedy are both good picks.

[Ranger]

I'm willing to ignore my own bias because town leader (Ranger) also scumreads Cook and I trust her to be less biased on Cook's personality (though IDK if this trust is justified)

I'm often more biased than I prefer. Still, though Cook's certainly town aspects especially early, I feel I do have her group of four identified, guaranteeing scum, and she's the player by both play and role I most think scum.

[Ranger]

I think both you and Koba are putting too much faith in the mods going for interconnected roles, but I do pick up what you’re putting down about the implo gang.

As I said, I think I've a reasonably good guess for the groups, because listmods are likely to maintain similarly-formatted roles across their submissions. Still, they're mostly guesses, aside from my group which I've absolute certainty on.

What do you make of Aureal’s play?

Mixed bag. Aureal's reads feel plausibly scum. Her play is self-destructive, likely to get herself yeeted. I've no read on whether her scummy implosion is due to being crucified town or nailed scum. I

lean

scum overall, yet if we want a

guaranteed

scum elimination, she's far from one.

There's a very notable gap between Aureal and Deltabreedy. I've high confidence in my Delta and Cook scumreads. I've very low confidence on an Aureal scumflip.

[Ranger]

i think cook is the best choice for today tho

Same.

[Ranger]

why is cook mafia other than the circular confbias i have seen going on

Cook's guaranteed to be from my group of four, which is guaranteed to have scum.

My role is a

direct

counter to Cook's role, in our group of four.

Cook has partnerey interactions with the Doctor Drew slot, also a high chance of being scum.

Cook had an instant switch in her playstyle the moment I started ramping up the pressure on her. She had a solid start which looked town to most, yet the moment I called her deepscum, she started unraveling.

[Ranger]

finally im only alive in one game.. the other large i signed up for we speedran a town win basically bc it was sort by postcount scum rand

Since that game ended first, I'll say a fair amount of my scumread there was comparing there to here and feeling you couldn't be the same alignment.

I've since reconsidered, although ngl, you

are

weaker town now that I know you were town there.

i have been pensive over kkfc bc some of what they posted recnently felt kinda *decent?* but overall their play is like squarely like scum!kkfc

I disagree on this; it feels like the town-KatyKimFanClub I've seen before.

[Ranger]

My role is a

direct

counter to Cook's role, in our group of four.

Would you agree that me being unrecruitable is a direct counter to aureal recruiting?

Botched quote. If you're in the same group, then yes, quite likely. Otherwise, no, just coincidental.

[Ranger]

i'm checked out lets kill someone already

Cook, please.

[Ranger]

I give up. Cook ur gonna have to fight this out yourself bc it's not helpful that I'm trying to defend u while you're basically doing nothing atp

Post solving content like giving us a PoE or a town core or any sort of reads, bc the more you play like this the more it feels like you are intentionally anti spewing basically.

Why would Cook need to fight when you're giving her an out?

Cook > Meuh > Aureal > No-lim > All other eliminations today.

I honestly don't care about your Random Nurse push.

Could Random Nurse be scum? Sure. I disagree with the read; I could be wrong.

Could Cook be town? I'm fairly certain the answer is no.

Cook is in my group of four, guaranteed.
Since we have a group of four, there's guaranteed scum in the group of four.
My role directly counters Cook's.
Cook's play is that of scum.

Random Nurse

could

be scum; I guarantee Cook

is

scum.

[Ranger]

why is cook scummy

2472, 2155, backed by 2043 and 999.


You can see the behavior I mention of Cook's demeanor shift around 2006/2008 among others.


For why my role is a direct counter to Cook's, refer to 1979.


Supporting the Meuhslot-Cook connection, you can look to the likes of 1990 (not the best, I don't have handy the posts best discussing the connection), with things like 716 demonstrating it.

[Ranger]

Ranger please give me your AniX towncase so I can townbin you.

Honestly, I've forgotten why I townread AniX.

I don't really think AniX is scum; I've no reason for it. Right now, gut I guess.

Sorry, I know it's not the answer you want.

[Ranger]

RN's ISO here is night and day with the town!RN I just played with so
VOTE: RandomNurse

Funny you mention night/day differences as this is night/day difference from the Meuh I've seen from your towngames.

[Ranger]

RN's ISO here is night and day with the town!RN I just played with so
VOTE: RandomNurse

Funny you mention night/day differences as this is night/day difference from the Meuh I've seen from your towngames.

It honestly feels like Meuh isn't even trying to hide being scum.

Cook's been the lead wagon for the entire time I've been pushing her.

DKKoba proposes a Random Nurse wagon, which has some support (mostly from the scummiest slots in the game), and Meuh joins the efforts there.

This is not the level of analysis a town-Meuh shows, and Meuh's vibes are completely off.

[Ranger]

I'll read up some in my lunch break today, and probably finish tonight. Anything anyone wants in the immediate future?

Review 2043, and 2756, go into the Cook-Ranger joint iso to see when Cook's demeanor changed (it was after I called Cook deepscum), go into a Cook-Drew iso to see their connection, and optionally:
Iso camelCasedSnivy and KatyKimFanClub to confirm they're town.

[Ranger]

Is there a full claim list somewhere?

For a likely breakdown of the setup, 2043.

It's not guaranteed, Bingle disagrees with some of the groupings, yet the 'implosion' grouping of four is guaranteed, and per game mechanics, that group of four {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub} is guaranteed to have one scum.

In the off chance you actually

aren't

scum with Cook, you should be voting her.

[Ranger]

why are we doing apathy elimination

Cook isn't an apathy elimination. Cook is the best definitive lead for scum we have.

There's no

definitive

group of four beyond the 'implosion' group. I've suspicions, yet nothing absolutely confirmed. The definitive group's guaranteed one scum, so to hit scum, you shouldn't be voting outside {Ranger, Cook, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub}.

My role directly counters Cook's, in a way further guaranteeing we are in the same group. As the roles are direct counters, and Cook's role provides massive +scum utility by crippling town players with negative modifiers, there's a high chance Cook's role is a scum role.

These, aside from Cook's play.

[Ranger]

You know what, time to scumcase Ranger.

That'll be interesting.

[Ranger]

i will vote you out before cook if you want to play it this way

Objectively better than your plan.

Voting outside the guaranteed group of four is suboptimal.

[Ranger]

i find it odd you dropped the readslist thing and are actively pushing reasoning.

My last readslist was 2021. The list still holds, aside from the Ircher tier. Ircher should be up with DragonEater70, and Random Nurse bumped down to around the Alisae slot.

Mentally, I didn't think it was enough to warrant posting. As there's more a change than I thought, you're right about a need for an update.

{KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy, Political Clout, DKKoba}

(all on the caveats of Meuh/Cook flipping scum)

{DragonEater70, Ircher}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Save The Dragons, Theta Alpine}
{ofrhz}
{Klick}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{Cook}

[Ranger]

With that said, your argument for specifically implo making that specific group does seem to hold water.

If the argument holds water, it's guaranteed.

Thanks to the xyzzy-siterules-clarification, I can't risk going into the details. I'm 100% sure Cook is from my group from Cook's posts discussing formatting and knowing it's an exact match to mine. I'm 99% sure KatyKimFanClub and camelCasedSnivy share this group. Their being likely EpicMafia-based roles bolsters the odds all of them being together.

[Ranger]

1. Ranger has been using hyperbolic language when pushing Cook, saying multiple times the cay

guarantee

that Cook is scum, even though they base their evidence on speculation that we have no way of confirming regarding the role groups.

I'd happily elaborate if doing so didn't risk a modkill. I

can't

be anything except hyperbolic about the role PM groupings being guaranteed. My reasons for scumreadking Cook specifically in the group are beyond just my role directly countering hers.

[Ranger]

2. Ranger has explictly stated they wanted to fake claim, and then said that these statements were a breadcrumb to their role? Except I don't really see how it breadcrumbs anything.
Don't see any relation personally.

I never actually pointed out all of my breadcrumbs. 32 was admitting I wasn't going to lie in my claim. 34 lays out I'm not just a miller. 45 was saying I was going to lie and claim my real role but say it's a fakeclaim. 95 was saying fakeclaiming's a bad habit. 131, I answered I should be aiming at town, because removing town modifiers/passives usually works as a +town buff. 133, I was fishing for negative utilities to claim, because I wanted to target negative utility players. 309, I kicked off massclaim because I selfishly wanted to know the best players to target. 1002 was meant to be posted the day after 309 yet was delayed due to my partner's situation, and was me following through on the prior breadcrumbs because the questions I asked about my 'fakeclaim' were me asking questions about my real role. I sent five questions to xyzzy to clarify the nature of my ability.

[Ranger]

Until they got really angry about Cook being in the same grouping as them.

My only emotion regarding Cook is annoyance I'm not being followed to an elimination.

We have a guaranteed group of four which

certainly

contains scum, and it's a group with relatively active players who most slots have given commentary on. It's not a wagon on lurkers who give little information, it's a wagon on a player who has plenty of interactions which could break the game wide open if we actually flipped her.

If Cook were town it'd reveal one of {KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy} as scum, when that's against most players' expectations (throw in Ranger if being objective), and if Cook's scum then it conftowns all three within.

I've not towncased KatyKimFanClub or camelCasedSnivy, yet I

have

laid out why I believe Cook's scum by play.
Cook had a strong initial entrance, universally thought of as town.

I suggested Cook as deepscum.
Cook's demeanor instantly shifted as I began to push her.
She went from not paying attention to me at all to consistently portraying me negatively and trying to discredit me.
Cook's interactions with the Meuh slot heavily suggest they're scumbuddies.
Cook's play has gotten more anti-spew and more defensive as the pressure ramped up against her.

Cook's stances also shifted in response to 2043(first draft, 1972).

Throw in Cook's role is positive utility for scum to use (tacking on negative-utility modifiers to town players) and my role directly counters her (removing negative utilities), and there's a very high chance Cook's scum. Doubly so, if you think KKFC/CCS are town.

Could

I be wrong? It's possible. Still, this is the most sure I've ever been on a scumread.

[Ranger]

Chess doctor was wild. And we freaking ate it up.

I like playing theme games, particularly bastards, because they allow my creativity to flow.

Still, not every game will have a banger fakeclaim. Here I had to claim the miller part and I didn't think it smart to lie about my role in a massclaim I proposed, so I couldn't flex this game. Alas. Next time, perhaps.

[Ranger]

VOTE: meuh
ok I think I have enough to say to flash wagon this

This is a good wagon and I'd join you there, as Meuh has a high chance of being scum. Not as guaranteed as Cook, yet high enough to warrant risking a D1 elimination, should we fancy it.

[Ranger]

I find it weird that you say that because normally you post your readlist every page even if there's only a slight change.

I need to connect the dots in my head sometimes.

I mentally had a shift in reads; I mentally thought nothing had changed enough to warrant a readslist; these contradict each other, yet I needed to have a line between them to see so; it was absent, so they existed separately despite the inconsistency.

[Ranger]

I clicked most of these links and I don't think they're remotely breadcrumbs?

If a breadcrumb is obvious enough to be seen, it’s a lousy one. Subtlety trades the definitive clarity of unambiguity for the benefit of not broadcasting to scum. Still, the term breadcrumb was loose. I was making posts through the lens of my role, not trying to spell out exactly what it is.

[Ranger]

koba rn heavily reminds me of kyoko kiri from WDM for some strange reason

I actually see where you're coming from.

My townread on the slot has weakened continuously, as their pushes feel alarmingly scum-agenda-driven rather than town disagreeing with the Cook-scum push.

[Ranger]

I could be persuaded to vote for any of them if someone can actually present a case for them other than "My gut says it".

Cook case: 2334 (I can find other DE70/Ircher posts with cases later), 2919, 2762, 2760, and 2756. Among others.

There’s more; following the links leads to most.

[Ranger]

So as you can see, I'm EXTREMELY worried about slots not playing

When the town has the game close to solved on D1, scum's winning play is to not play.

[Ranger]

sorry cook ur victim of "town laziness"

Bold of you to keep saying this without addressing 2762.

There’s plenty coherent reasons for scumreading Cook; that’s an

incomplete

list, when there’s many more.

[Ranger]

sorry cook ur victim of "town laziness"

Bold of you to keep saying this without addressing 2762.

There’s plenty coherent reasons for scumreading Cook; that’s an

incomplete

list, when there’s many more.

[Ranger]

What's your updated reads list?

ngl I don’t want to make one until I’m off mobile.

Cook top scumread, Meuh second-highest scumread; the rest? Need to review.

[Ranger]

Why is aureal town

If only there were a tool to search an iso for stances on Aureal.

[Ranger]

What's my agenda? To save cook?

Considering how you seem interested in pushing every counter possible to Cook, are ignoring every suspect slot sheeping your Cook countereagons, are ignoring the numerous reasons for a Cook wagon including

ignoring a mechanically optimal elimination

(by eliminating in the group of four, we're

guaranteed

one dead scum, and the sooner we hit scum in the group, the more conftown we have)?

It’s certainly crossed my mind.

[Ranger]

When your best bet is " hurr I dont like the claim" you're probably wrong in role madness

Fortunately, I've numerous reasons beyond the claim for suspecting Cook.

[Ranger]

Ircher and aureal are 2 of the most obvious scum in the game right now but your ego wants it to be cook bc wahhh I cant be wrong I have to be right on this thing I pushed so long.

Cook and Meuh are 2 of the most obvious scum in the game right now, but your ego wants it to be Ircher(who is in his town meta, painfully so) or Aureal, because wahhh I can’t be wrong I have to be right on this thing I pushed so long.

[Ranger]

My groupings accurate + top-two scumreads accurate:

{KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy, Political Clout, DKKoba}

(all on the caveats of Meuh/Cook flipping scum and my groupings accurate)

{DragonEater70, Ircher}
{Bingle, AniX, Theta Alpine}
{ofrhz}
{Save The Dragons, Klick}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{Cook}

Without those two assumptions:

{DragonEater70}
{Ircher, Bingle, Theta Alpine, KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy}
{AniX}
{ofrhz, Political Clout}
{DKKoba}
{Save The Dragons, Klick}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{Cook}

[Ranger]

Yuuuup! I'm now a town temporary death miller, Koba was indeed town

The problem with this claim is Meuh definitely isn't town.

Cook's also scum.

VOTE: Cook

[Ranger]

Vote DragonEater70

This vote is going to stay the whole day. His role STILL doesn't make any damn sense in the context of the game, he was extremely eager to make himself useless, and he is now either useless or evil team.

He told us he lied about his role in the neighborhood, I'm not inclined to disclose how.

[Ranger]

Vote DragonEater70

This vote is going to stay the whole day. His role STILL doesn't make any damn sense in the context of the game, he was extremely eager to make himself useless, and he is now either useless or evil team.

He told us he lied about his role in the neighborhood, I'm not inclined to disclose how.

You have a neighborhood?

We do.

I'm also guaranteeing, Meuh isn't town and neither is Cook.

[Ranger]

I am town though… :good:

I guarantee you're not.

[Ranger]

I am town though… :good:

I guarantee you're not.

what would you wager on that?

My life.

If Meuh flipped town I'd eat a death gladly.

Same for you.

[Ranger]

Do you have an actual reason or are you just extremely tunnelled?

You inherited the Drew slot, which I'm more sure than ever was scum.

You're also playing as scum.

I've never been more sure on a play-based read.

Even my Cook scumread uses mechanics.

[Ranger]

I think Cook accidentally spewed Meuh town here by claiming she is "cleared" by DkKoba's flip.

I've the opposite read: scum trying to clear their scumbuddy.

[Ranger]

who wants to talk tonight

I'm down to talk to anyone except my scumreads.

[Ranger]

i might have caught three scum elsewhere which

You didn't.

[Ranger]

wait i just realized that koba was the kill, was that really scum's best kill?

It's possible scum thought Koba was the traitor and killing would recruit the traitor.

The confirmation of a traitor's presence/mechanics doesn't confirm who the traitor is to them and what the mechanics are.

It shouldn't be due to Koba's reads, unless you believe Ircher is scum, as Koba's big scumreads were Aureal and Ircher. However, were it, I'd say Yimmy's scum as Yimmy was the other scumread near the end of Koba's iso.

[Ranger]

i do not know of anyone else who could be the traitor besides bingle is the thing

Koba could be, as well as anyone whose role cannot be confirmed.

Which is...an alarmingly large portion of the playerlist. Objectively including myself.

[Ranger]

Ultimately your choice though. Unless this day quickends in the next 37 hours (the day needs to last 72 hours for my vigshot to activate), I have satisfied every other necessary component to vigshot you. Either you start being honest with the town about your role or I'll just have the mod be honest about what your role was.

we have death millers already, what makes you think de70's role will be real too?

Claim your night action?

targeted bingle, he's hated now

So you targeted a

bulletproof

player, who if they're town is a

bulletproof townie

a

negative utility

modifier?