New York 180 (Endgame)
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elusive Mafia Scum
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In post 27, Aeronaut wrote:It's because wake is a house alt
It (The House who's user name is House) say's its not an alt or I think that's against the rules or something unless its a hydra I guess? Then though they wouldn't have separate accounts, would they?
Also, Cheetory6's programming thing is kind of funny. If I have time I will try to debug-
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In post 55, Wake1 wrote:In post 48, elusive wrote:Hmm...three votes on Grib. That's odd so soon.
FA_QT and crosboss, avatars?
Vote TSOfor being late to the party.
Not really. Game's got 21 peeps.
What are you doing there?
Yeah, I haven't played a game with this many people. And newbie games, the vote pile up is scary.
So which version of House are you? And what is the other House doing?-
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In post 96, Aeronaut wrote:Ok. Let's generate discussion
@Everyone: what's the biggest flaw in your towngame? Your scumgame?
Yay, meta question time.
Town games (8?)- babbling, hyper, tunnel friendly, sheep-y
Scum game (1) - lurkery, fence-hugger
I'm trying to break some of the meta but expect babbling and hyperness.
Silverwolf, it's cool, 48 was mostly because in the newbie game its like 5 or less to lynch so I was adjusting from that world to this world which is much bigger. What are your other scum hunting tips? What do you think about tunneling to pressure scum?
Wake are you the real House or is House the real House? Which came first? House-House or Wake-House?-
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Elusive's Guide to What Compromises Being Town
Written by a Not Expert Who Is Most Definitely Not an Expert or Even a Journeywoman but a Novice or a Baby Novice
Do Not Try This At Home Or in a Fireplace
1. Ask many questions of people, sometimes the same ones (fluff questions, mechanics questions, for reads and stuff like that)
2. Once you get a hunch or a vibe or a gut feel then hone in on the target and pressure them lots
3. Your horoscope does not in any way refer to what is going on in the mafia games so don't use that as a sign even though it could be eerily similar
4. Enjoy the game because otherwise if you think about it realistically then basically you are kind of a masochist aren't you?-
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In post 241, T S O wrote:In post 48, elusive wrote:Hmm...three votes on Grib. That's odd so soon.
FA_QT and crosboss, avatars?
Vote TSOfor being late to the party.
Wait, so you found it weird Grib had three votes, and proceeded to place my fourth vote?
Explain this to me.
What's there to explain?
Oh and SilverWolf, I actually like that but sometimes its hard to think "Where is this coming from?" because people sometimes do things that don't make sense.-
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Are there many people who play to their town meta very well? I imagine it would take some experience to be able to do it flawlessly. Also, if your town meta is known then you're expected to actually get things done. Like the way I read some people isn't whether they are acting town but their results because if they've led lynches on two innocent townies or something like that then they aren't town because that's beneath their play.
Also, isn't that why you start off with a "lean" read and then pressure directly or circle around like sharks for reactions?
Hi acryon-
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In post 280, elusive wrote:I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.
Hey there. Did you roll scum?[/quote]
Nope, I never roll scum
Are you town?
I have setup questions or I guess what is this type of setup called and is there a Wiki with possible roles and number of town, scum and any third parties?
TSO, the vote on you was based one me looking at the player list and who I didn't see post yet. Grib posted and you hadn't posted at all and were all lurkery. Anything else?
Although, your explanation of Jared's post in your post #307 doesn't make sense. What the what the what?
GL on exams, though.-
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It's interesting because I see what you're saying but you're also removing kind of an aspect of the game that remains as a record. I mean votes are also done for reactions.
However, since you aren't voting - what do you plan to do - just scum hunt until you're ready?
Fight the PEER PRESSURE TO DO STUFF.
It's kind of scary.-
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Well, you mean play mafia in general or play mafia well? I've been playing mafia for a while now (about 5 forum games some where else and some in progress here and another place and a lot of Town of Salem). However, all my early games I was very sheepy and fluff focused and recently I've been trying to get better at actually playing well.-
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Wait so Wake you're saying you're basically extremely aggressive and hurt people's feelings and stuff and that's why you're being all mysterious and bringing in silly "scarcity" discussion into mafia theory and why votes (or not voting) are important? Oh boy. So are you Rampage on steroids in your natural element or is this something totally different?-
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I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.
vikingfan, I haven't gotten an answer from you - you stated that Grib was not bussed for his V\LA comment while you were bussed. Do you see why that is a scum slip? It implies that both you and Grib are scum and that one or more people from you wagon are scum.
Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?
I skimmed through one of the town and one of the mafia games you linked to vikingfan, it seems like both are from 10 or so years ago. First, have you been playing mafia since then under another or alt account or offsite? Then, your town meta from that game seems to be more aggressive - would you agree?
Horse is beeing agreeable so far.?
Many people are town reading SilverWolf.
Also, considering some of the replaces - what is your or this site's theory on replaces having a higher then average chance of being scum?
dragonspawn, so you have nothing of value to add other then wanting to converse about vampires and horses? I agree with you it can be hard to read players without knowing them but of the different types of things you could do to get a better sense, which have you thought of actually doing so far? And where?-
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SilverWolf, the vote on ABR was RVS but he has done nothing for me to move the vote.
The debate is of interest to me but I also feel like a bit of an outsider trying to figure out who is saying what and why. My questions to both are intended to help me come to my own conclusion.
Shinobi, for example your point 3. is one I disagree with, acryon consolidated useful information in one place that helps people like me keep track of two popular wagons and who is one them and why. Later on in the game, let's say if one of the two is lynched toDay, then I won't have to slog through pages and tally things myself but just pick up from there. What would you say is acryon's town or scum meta or what are you vibing or feeling there?
Will be back tomorrow for any follow ups.-
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I’m not really used to the “this post is townie” and then “this post is scummy” way of doing things. It’s seems a bit whiplashy and bipolar. Yes, House that was directed towards you.
I’m not sure about many things in general.
A More Detailed Look at the Vikingfan Wagon and Stuff
*Apologies if I missed something.
Spoiler:
I think vikingfan, dragonspawn, and TSO were the wagons that kind of built off each other or in reaction to each other. If I had to choose one of them to lynch today I would choose vikingfan but I can't tell if he's scum or major derp and my gut says town lynchbait.
vikingfan - major town derpage or scum slip derpage and then trying to cover up by "feigning ignorance?" - Would his scum buddies try to coach him to stop being so derpscum? Would he ask his scum buddies questions about RVS in their chat topic? viking, you should try out somew newbie games.
dragonspawn - Rampage and klingoncelt and a few others point out that this is his style of play. He doesn't read particularly scummy if that is taken into account unless replying to votes on him (aka calls out Boonskiies for calling him out for not scum hunting which is NOU).
TSo - wagon built off quickly on him in RVS and then he basically responded mostly to votes on him over anything else going on.
People I think need to be pressured or questioned:
Croboss - (I know its replacing but whoever takes that slot, its first post was meh and connected to Wake\dragonspawn)
Jared615 - barely posting
TSO - see explanations for Jared and also just the naval gazing rather than moving onto other players
Boonskiies - seems distracted and not posting a lot of tangible
Cheetory - can't find a post of his that stands out in terms of reads
House - just in general seems to do what is expected or asked of him
NakedJogger - uncouthness, ewww. Also it's a beautiful world, have some chocolate or a hug a stuffed animal or like a real person.
In general, I'm not a vote hopper and I also don't follow the crowd. I actally did agree with Wake's post on votes.
Vote: Jared615
Hi there, how's it going? What are your thoughts on the game so far?
Specifically, what are your reads on the following players:
1. Grib
2. Wake
3. vikingfan
4. dragonspawn
5. TSO
6. Kitz
Thank you
P.S. If I missed any questions then restate them, tanks...-
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In post 621, Aeronaut wrote:Elusive, Why go through the entire game and summarize the wagons if you weren't going to vote for either of them anyway?
Mostly to keep track of who said what. If one of those wagons go through, then it'll all be in one place to look back upon. So if viking does flip town or scum, then its clear who led the lynch and what reason they provided or who they agreed to\are possibly aligned with. We have some days left to consolidate and many people haven't spoken yet.
NJ, I don't know. You tell me...-
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I don't know if he's scum, but he's scummy. He hasn't posted much aka is lurking actively, posts to sheep someone (House, rather then actually read the thread and make his own case\decision), and is just AWOL. Then the wierd almost pre-emptive explanation of his simple vote on TSO by TSO seemed to ping me as off.-
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(I can't seem to quote easily or something, idk) so just linking to TSO's intial post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p6592644 re: Jared's vote on him which was to state:
"This is another bad vote, but could be town.
Most of these votes feel town in their nonchalance, which really sucks."
And then in #303 regarding the same posthttp://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... d#p6595738 Jared quoted above.
"This is town because Jared, in this post, is openly saying he is voting the largest wagon (which I don't think scum would do with literally 0 explanation) as well as saying, by proxy, that he has read the game. This is a questionable move, and he's not leaving himself any back doors by saying he hasn't read either. For me, this is quite town, more because of the naked vote than any other."
I don't see why there is so much explanation of Jared who has barely done anything this game and also stated this after TSO explanation's:
In post 357, Jared615 wrote:Sorry if I'm being a bit lazy this game.
yes I bandwagoned TSO.
I really do need to do some more reading.
1. How can TSO know for sure that Jared or that post is town and not want to pressure him or anything? Unlike klingoncelt and others who stated that dragonspawn plays the way he does even though it seems scummy (and also link to his games and such), TSO doesn't offer any meta explanation or anything on why he provides a whole rationalization of Jared's actions. Jared's own explanation doesn't quite fit with TSO's - he basically states he is lazy, hasn't read, and bandwagoned. All of which are pointing to scummy to me by a lot.
Unless there is masons or a role that knows another, it seems like a lot of explanation\defensiveness for someone who has contributed very little. Jared pings me off and I can't tell what townie mindset TSO would have to hard defend someone so early in the game without any night actions or anything to corroborate such as tunneling.
NJ, lol that was funny. Which Spice Girl are you? I like V, she sounds like a classy lady.
Aeronaut, unless night actions or etc corroborate I generally don't 100% scum or town read anyone. Also, I've gotten two fellow townies killed once for things that I thought were obviously scummy and I'm still feeling cautious. So yeah, if that is going to trouble you then I suggest following through. I'm not a fan of empty threats.-
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House
Post #637 - Well, it also allows the person doing it to actually waffle and not be clear on what they find suspicious and whether they are stating that someone is lean town but acting scummy or lean scum but acting townie.
Post #638 - Manipulative? How so? You're meta as described by someone else (Aero?) is that you're abrasive and aggressive but so far you've only acted that way in this game when someone reminds you (such as celt waiting for you to rage post and you complying with a jokey one, aka trying to play to expectations?)
Post #640 - Chainsawing? Also, you're not my main focus so I'm not sure why you expect to be. However, like TSO would you point to an example of really strong\perfect analysis in this game (maybe even two examples one done by you and one done by not you).-
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House, I have responded to TSO on this. Point out what I haven't responded to. Also, that means you can't point to an example of strong anaylsis by you and someone else this game? I'm wary of people who harp on analysis and can't even point to any strong examples of what this consists of. It basically leads to changing the goal post when a person does try.-
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I have no idea why you have to call me a tool, are you angry or being a troll? I mean it almost seems like a bit of an act going on with you.
Also, I did respond to #629 that but in case you missed it (Grib had posted already in thread and I know of Grib from somewhere else and TSO had not posted at all so it seemed like people were pressuring him to post which a few stated in thread and I agree with voting people who aren't posting or being lurkery).
Anything else? What is chainsawing other then something to kill zombies with?-
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House, bolded for you.
In post 309, elusive wrote:In post 280, elusive wrote:I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.
Hey there. Did you roll scum?
Nope, I never roll scum
Are you town?
I have setup questions or I guess what is this type of setup called and is there a Wiki with possible roles and number of town, scum and any third parties?
TSO, the vote on you was based one me looking at the player list and who I didn't see post yet. Grib posted and you hadn't posted at all and were all lurkery. Anything else?
Although, your explanation of Jared's post in your post #307 doesn't make sense. What the what the what?
GL on exams, though.[/quote]
And:
In post 280, elusive wrote:I also know Grib from a off-site thing and I agree with SilverWolf's read of him. She also leans town to me.
There's at least one or two more relating to Grib.
Also, I can't chainsaw when I don't have any scum mates and since you weren't even on my top focus (see my vote on Jared), it seems lik you do like drawing attention to yourself.-
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SilverWolf, there's already people pressuring vikingfan and pressuring or defending dragonspawn. I'm not a leader type, but I also don't follow crowds and there isn't a player who has spoken yet who I feel comfortable sheeping.
The fact that Jared hasn't posted much at all (and was defended by TSO pre-emptively almost) speaks out to me. There's also connections between vikingfan (for example if he flips scum then does that mean Grib is scum since he used bus to refer to both of them OR if he flips town then does that mean that certain people are less likely to be scum?).-
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Ok, well I think when I see a player who is lurking and who states or implies they aren't reading, then they lean scum to me.
As for vikingfan, when its time to consolidate lynches I'll go with what I feel then. Since he's basically halfway or more to the noose, it's time to pressure other reads\people\etc. Also, if he really is that derp!scum (and its not just a noobish town flailing or high or something) then woah. However, I tend to rarely think things are going to be so easy as scum handing themselves all filleted on a plate and even sprinkling a bit of lemon on themselves for town perusal.-
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Grib, I've interacted with many people who are not lurking.
My lean towns so far were: Wake (who I would maybe sheep if he were not V\LA), SilverWolf (already stated in thread), acryon, FA_Q2, Aeronaut, Rampage (idk maybe), Celt,
My Need to Be Pressured Pile is: Naked Jogger, Cheetory, Boonskiies, Croboss\Replace, Jared615, House, TSO
I voted Ramapage in RVS and stayed because he hasn't done the thing he does quite yet.
I voted Jared615 because of the post I quoted + TSO defending him + I hate lurkers which is my meta in general.
My I Have No Clue Pile is: Everyone else
Also, you didn't answer my like thrice repeated question? Are you a townie green ninja shadow cat?
NJ, hmm...different people play different ways. This is my playstyle. I disagree with your read of it and also your sacrilege against Victoria Beckham who even if she was a maneater which is in itself relevant, is legit status.
I'm also still waiting your tunnel....or I guess 1 vs. 1 whichever or both they are.-
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NakedJogger, I suggest that you tunnel or pressure without having to take the recourse of unnecessary language. Once that Pandora's box is open, there's no coming back.
House, the problem is that you can create any amount of WIFOM to read any player in this thread the way you're putting it on thick. I could make a case such as you'rs on each player in this thread. It would be fake.
Don't really care, I'm town, I won't go down without a fight. I respond in kind so be careful what you wish for.-
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OMG, House you caught me. I'm scum and tonight you're my NK target. You're like so smart, like I never stood a chance. Whatever shall I do now?
Also, the bolded part - you can pressure or tunnel someone without being a dbag. If you are a dbag then you get treated like one. Abrasive is fine, but there are limits.-
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vikingfan, it's interesting to see you posting like a real player now, are you being coached or? Since it may turn out that you are the lynch for toDay, who do you think town should look at closely if you flip town? Can you do a last reads or will post?
Wake88, vikingfan wrote in a post that he found it interesting that the response to his V\LA was for players to buss him while the response to Grib's V\LA did not result in bussing. That read like a massive scum slip to most, I think. I'm more interested in what people think should happen once he flips either town or scum. If he flips scum do they look at those who were voting him at the time of the post? Does that mean Grib needs to be looked at? Etc.
Aeronaut, you can start now.-
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No, I'm not an alt. Although, I'm curious to who you think I would be an alt of. I'm not sure what the "encryptor" part means but if there was anything bad about that it was wondering if he would make another scum slip which you kind of defused from happening. What is your take on the vikingfan vs. dragonspawn wagons?-
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Because if he's scum he has a scum chat? That is where the coaching would happen? What are enycryptors or link?
On the one hand if we take his alleged scum slip as real then that means life is a bit easier for us because that means at the time he made that post, there was at least one scum buddy on his wagon. That also means that Grib is most likely scum.
However, I have yet to play a game where the player lynched day one was scum so I'm a bit wary and cautious of it.-
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In post 711, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Just lynch Boon.
Isn't a vikingfan lynch more informative? If he does flip scum then there's a lead to follow? If he flips town it gives different set of information?-
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In post 715, Aeronaut wrote:In post 714, elusive wrote:In post 711, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Just lynch Boon.
Isn't a vikingfan lynch more informative? If he does flip scum then there's a lead to follow? If he flips town it gives different set of information?
Why are you pushing for a lynch but not voting for them?
I know what he thinks about dragonspawn, but I want to know what he thinks of vikingfan. Why should I vote for a wagon when there are about 6 days left? People should weigh in on it before the flip and not everyone has.-
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In post 722, SilverWolf wrote:In post 721, elusive wrote:SilverWolf, I have some setup questions. With 21 players what is the ratio of town to scum? Or I guess the average ratio for large games?
Check out this game. It's a 21 player closed normal. It should give you a rough idea. I'm not saying this game is the same as that one. It probably isn't. But it might help you with ratio's.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=58830
Also, you are reading newbtown to me.
Ok, thanks for the link. It seems like there could be up to 6-7 scum\serial killer\third parties in total but probably not more then that.
vikingfan, I suggest keeping an eye on the thread since with the recent vote you might be at L-2 (or L-1?). No one else should vote without letting him claim.-
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viking, the way you phrased it makes me think there is town, scum, and possibly third party in this game. It also fits with the numbers ratio from the other game.
Cop can be verified by role cop, watcher, tracker, type roles.
Cop can be protected by bodyguard or have a switcher type role switch all actions from the cop to another character. Or doctor too. So if all goes well then scum can't NK you, they can do other things but not NK unless they have something piercing type. Or I guess if there is a serial killer and a scum and both target a player and the player is protected by a bodyguard or a doctor, does that cover both murder attempts?-
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