NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

bro that's harsh

i'm hurt

[Cephrir]

The most striking thing I found from your posts is that you generally seem to have a pre-formed position in your mind. Whenever someone agrees with that position, you encourage and cheerlead them. Whenever someone disagrees, you critisize them for it. I'll point out several examples.

I actually never have a preformed position in mind, unless it's one I have already stated...

Firstly, you believe that you are scummy as shown in post 451 and you later townread people who are scumreading you. I find your townread on Geists for scumreading you very comfortable and completely lacking doubt - you are too self-assured about their scumread.

It's hardly exclusively for that reason; plus I think I'm improving! YMMV.

Secondly, you don't like/scumreads MafiaSSK as evidenced in post 957. Your further posts towards MafiaSSK are critical such as the "

eeeeeee

" in post 969. I am not exactly sure what the "

eeeeeee

" is supposed to accomplish from a town POV but it seems as though it is a declaration of your position. These declarations show up in many other ways such as the rhetorical "

...What?

" in post 960. I am going to term these sort of things "

Rhetorical expressions of surprise.

" It is basically when you take a position and wonder why everybody doesn't share that opinion. Other examples include showing up at random times and asking why certain things are hapenning. For instance "why are we lynching X" when a quick glance at the previous few pages should give the questioner all he needs. It is more pronounced when the questioner doesn't actually want to know the answer but wants to take a position that lynching X is absurd and so wants to pretend that everyone lynching X is crazy/scummy.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thirdly, your position on Stuffed Crust is that they are scum and you therefore agrees everytime someone pushes on them with examples being 1132.

Why is that scummy or anything but normal?

Fourthly, the position on me. 2744, you say that my post rubs you the wrong way. 3695, it again seems like you scumread me. You mention that when you read my posts you like them but it is rare. I am assuming it means that it is only the rare post that gives you a townread which doesn't make sense with your final position. 4021, when you give a plus sign to Thor's terribad vote on me is another example. My first concern is your pre-formed position that votes on me are good and thumbs-upping everyone who does it regardless of how terrible their reasoning is. My second concern is that this position makes no sense with your apparent "townread" on me. Your motivations and thought processes are unclear. 4289 is another example.

I read all your posts now. Most of them are quite good, but I don't want to let myself give you a free pass, I could see you being that good.

Fifth, your position on Pie is mostly one of random criticism of his posts which I can't really relate with.

That's nice?

I also wonder why you have never taken a step back and reconsidered things after championing the SC lynch D1. All you did was show up from time to time saying that SC ought to be lynched. They finally were lynched. They flipped town. Now, you pop up from time to time talking about how Arthur needs to be lynched. 4379 is deeply troubling. You had a similar stance toward SC - you couldn't wait to see them lynched. Each day, all you do is try to get someone lynched. There is no effort at scumhunting or sorting people. You barely ask any questions. You are merely quoting things you don't like with nonsensical phrases like "yuck," "eww," "eeeee" etc which does jacksquat to help me understand your thought process. I don't see any effort from you to actually find scum as opposed to just lynching someone. Your case on Arthur is weak. It is not the kind of stuff that yields scum lynches.

I am playing like trash this game and accepted sometime on D1 that I will probably be lynched at some point. I see little point in trying hard at scumhunting (which I don't do a ton of anyway ever because I have no confidence in my ability at it and would rather let others do it for me for the most part). I would venture to say I don't have much case on Arthur at all, but that doesn't really bother me. Somewhere along the line this game and I got onto separate wavelengths or something? And I just don't give enough fucks to take the like 4 rereads it would probably take me to fix that. In conclusion, meh.

[Cephrir]

hey

hey cephrir

guess what

you waited too long to bus this time

i am coming for you tomorrow

now that i have the time and energy for this game

things are good

good things

hey

hey goodmorning

i don't care what you think

[Cephrir]

I know it doesn't usually pan out this way, but I sincerely hope you're all disappointed in yourselves when you inevitably lynch me. You'll probably justify it to yourselves by saying it's my fault for playing poorly, but in reality it will be your fault for not listening to the players who've actually played a ton of games with me.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

Why is that scummy or anything but normal?

It is the extreme nature of throughout your posts that I found scummy. You agree with

everything

that matches your position with no paranoia or backtracking or constantly changing reads. I find it more likely that scum will stick to a position and champion everything that agrees with that position.

Also, if you are town and think you are playing badly, then step it up. If you don't have much of a case on Arthur, why are you pushing so vehemently for his lynch? Your push is disproportionate to the strength of your case.

A) pretty sure he's scum
B) really don't want to deal with his BS anymore

Sometimes I get better as games go on (I'm probably never going to catch scum though). I guess we'll see.

[Cephrir]

It depresses me slightly that other people are doing more work on me wrt this game than I am doing at all for this game. Oh well.

[Cephrir]

domo you are in just the most massive rabbit hole here on the assumption casso is scum

even though they aren't

[Cephrir]

Ceph is (sadly) town.

I don't think you get to just do that, sorry.

[Cephrir]

Meh, we have pretty much given it up at this point.

VOTE: ssk

I suppose we should leave it at this for now (to prevent selfhammer) so that domo can do his thing, given the high chance of him dying tonight.

[Cephrir]

I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

This still sticks out like a sore thumb. I was picking up early townvibes on casso, and doubt was creeping in, but then this. I just do not understand how town phrases this in such manner. OF COURSE it's not a scumtell for you if you're town. There's no doubt! Your language here expresses doubt.

I think scum.

=/

Explanation: "I don't think that's something I tend to do when scum".

If you weren't obvtown I would accuse you of grasping at straws.

We should have lynched someone thirty pages ago.

Stuff like this I don't like either. It's not the first time casso has been talking in this way, looking for faster wagons etc. Did scum ever get quicklynched on d1?

The game slowing down and getting bloated is seen by some as good for scum. Do I subscribe to this? Meh, not really.

inb4 I'm accused of being Nacho's scumbuddy again.

[Cephrir]

It actually doesn't look very bad at all? What's bad about it? Do you take issue with 4544 then?

[Cephrir]

It actually doesn't look very bad at all? What's bad about it? Do you take issue with 4544 then?

lol. Like you'd agree that his wagon was bad when its a wagon that YOU support. I just tend to think that quick sudden surges are usually some scum piling on. Set up wise, a doc makes plenty of sense given that there were atleast TWO killing roles (mafia kill + vig kill) AND there's some folks that are posting like its maybe multiball for some odd reason. Would be pretty lame of Empire to give town no protective roles in a multikill game. Now I'm not advocating a protective claim but I agree with whomever (domo?) that this isn't the optimal lynch. What really worries me is that its nearly a week to lynch and folks are just like "ok, we give up."

Now my thoughts on Mrs. and Mr. Mara are that I hate them and like both GM and Mara make me go crazy. I think their reason for claiming was pretty lame and Mara claimed all early like WOT. GM also had allot of suspicion on their slot so did Mara claim mason to keep us from lynching GM?

GIF, I need you to read what I wrote in the qt and tell me if you think I should post about it?

Why not a jailkeeper or bodyguard, something that can coexist with a doc and wouldn't *need* to cc?

I didn't ask you about MCM, I asked you about their post. What's wrong with the logic? You just think SSK is town? If so, you'll need a better reason than "because there's gonna be a doc in the setup".

Cephrir , your Bert and Bro reads plox.

Town and probably town.

PLEASE ABORT.
Geists, I think you have chosen poorly.
First and most importantly, SSK is NOT likely to flip scum for behavioral reasons I shall explain when we have more time.
His doctor claim has gone uncountered. I find it unlikely we have no protective role.
Doctor is valuable here because we have a lot of other roles claimed AND we're on evens with our vig dead.
The high likelihood scum will shoot him if we leave him alone is a factor as well.

Doctor and protective role are not congruent.

Please, please give me a decent behavioral reason SSK is town though, because I can't find one.

Newsflash, if SSK is a doc A) there is a scum roleblocker and B) scum are never going to shoot him b/c they KNOW we will lynch him eventually.

[Cephrir]

I didn't ask you about MCM, I asked you about their post. What's wrong with the logic?

So YOU are voting SSK 'cause you agree with their logic? I don't really like the post 'cause it just pushes the SSK wagon home and its easy to interpret it as scummy and I explained that by telling you that I find most of everything scummy as fuck.

Yes. I've thought SSK was probably scum all day, and at this point it's become evident that basically everyone agrees, so there's no longer any point in saving him.

You just think SSK is town? If so, you'll need a better reason than "because there's gonna be a doc in the setup".

Do we lynch you if he flips town?

Where did you get that from?

{casso, bert, desp} would be my first guesses

Why not Cephir?

Must you really push me every time you possibly can?

[Cephrir]

I don't necessarily wanna lynch SSK today. I could totally see SSK being scum and the scumteam redirecting attention to SSK-scum bc SSK is practically dead anyway.

People keep saying this. What I don't get is why that's a reason not to lynch him. Like, okay, if he flips scum, great, maybe you were right, and you can re-examine the people who're being distracted from! But it seems like quite a conclusion to jump to directly.

[Cephrir]

His play has nothing to do with my read. I think SSK is scum because he claimed doc in a gunsmith setup, and because his action claim makes no sense. That's pretty much it.

[Cephrir]

{casso, bert, desp} would be my first guesses

Why not Cephir?

Must you really push me every time you possibly can?

Its my job to push who I think is scum. For someone with a supposedly town wincon I don't know how you'd not understand that.

At some point it gets a little excessive. It's somewhere around when you're asking what (whoever just posted) thinks of me basically all the time.

[Cephrir]

For the sake of my ego I would have preferred a word other than "angsty", but otherwise, accurate.

[Cephrir]

{casso, bert, desp} would be my first guesses

Why not Cephir?

wait wtf why are you thinking about things the same way I am.

Please stop being too much the voice of goddamn reason. I'm already getting scum vibes from you for the same reason I got scum vibes from Desp in Anything Goes.

Which I know is wrong, but my gut/paranoia are still very strong.

Just because it's out of character, or...?

The thing with casso is... if he's town, why the fuck would scum rather see SSK die today? I can't help feel that to assume casso is town is also to assume SSK is town. It looks a lot like SSK is a preferable lynch for scum than casso is. This for me indicates that casso is scum.

I had to reset my router so that last post has come up in pedit ten minutes later!

I've not got close to sorting bert yet. He seemed super town through d1 but today I'm not so sure. I can't put my finger on why. I intend to have a look at him after casso. I'll get round to finishing casso before I go to bed. Right now it wouldn't surprise me if casso and bert are indeed scum with SSK.

Will you please stop looking for associative tells with players who aren't flipped yet. You're pushing yourself deeper into a circle of paranoia every time you do this.

I'll say this - if we lynch through SSK casso and bert, and get three scum flips with no scum doc, lynch the shit out of geists for not supporting the casso wagon. That's the only reason I can think of that geists should be lynched. I would not suggest a cop wastes a look up on her.

You have a bloody gunsmith innocent on them. We are not lynching them. Those three are not all going to flip scum, and I say that without even taking my reads on them into account, it's just not gonna happen.

[Cephrir]

Actually ceph is probably town. What benefit does scum have telling the most obvious NK to stop making assumptions? He's obviously gonna get told to shut up. Scum are more likely to currently be either buddied to me, indifferent or ingnoring me imo.

I feel compelled to point out that I have in fact been buddying you all day. You really should use your time more productively though.

[Cephrir]

I can't read Cephrir worth a shit.

*dances*

[Cephrir]

I'm actually starting to wonder about this, myself. Those posts were hella weird.

[Cephrir]

Just because it's out of character, or...?

I don't get what you're asking here.

Why is it strange that they were being the voice of reason and saying things you agreed with?

[Cephrir]

You haven't seen a casso case? Then tell me why if he's town the brakes got slammed on his wagon in favour of a claimed doc. That's why I scumreading him so hard right now, because when push came to shove there didn't seem to be any scum interest in pushing his wagon into claim territory. That suggests scum do not want him dead. We're talking nachothor here, they would be high mislynch priority if the chance presented itself.

If you want me to be clearer with my reads, then I'm scumreading casso ssk and bert pretty hard, geists I don't trust even with a gunsmith clear, SAD and ceph are both people I feel could be scum, same with pie, norl I suspect is town but I'm not sure, muffin seems town and bro is town as fuck but he's excellent scum so I guess that makes him null.

And you can still be scum BBQ. The only thing in your favour is your self vote d1.

Maybe the shift was somehow towndriven? Perhaps the scum were the ones driving casso all along? (okay probably not)

I say that without thinking about who was doing any of this, but it is possible...

[Cephrir]

The "I think Geists is a great asset to the town but not a good choice for town leader / what masons?" line of thought sounds genuine.
It particularly sounds :Unguided: so I'll be impressed if it turns out to be a scum-QT-product.

This is actually a very good point and possibly enough for me to move my vote.

This is the only bit of your case that I agree with; everything else is pretty much completely fakeable.

This will support the notion that I'm "deciding" which of my "partners SSK and NACHO" to bus.

Good point.

We can start by lynching you since you're obviously dragging your team down by being so obvious.

A) Elaborate; why is Bert scum?
B) You still haven't explained your sudden flip on me and it's not OK. It has also conincided with pressure on me decreasing/it becoming clear I am unlikely to be lynched today.

I am suddenly getting paranoid about SSK being town (and Nacho still being town) in part because Domo is making a little sense but also because Norlkaz is (surprisingly?) making some sense. I'm not sure that I want to do this anymore. Someone please talk me back into it.

[Cephrir]

The "I think Geists is a great asset to the town but not a good choice for town leader / what masons?" line of thought sounds genuine.
It particularly sounds :Unguided: so I'll be impressed if it turns out to be a scum-QT-product.

This is the only bit of your case that I agree with; everything else is pretty much completely fakeable.

This is actually a very good point and possibly enough for me to move my vote.

This will support the notion that I'm "deciding" which of my "partners SSK and NACHO" to bus.

Good point.

We can start by lynching you since you're obviously dragging your team down by being so obvious.

A) Elaborate; why is Bert scum?
B) You still haven't explained your sudden flip on me and it's not OK. It has also conincided with pressure on me decreasing/it becoming clear I am unlikely to be lynched today.

I am suddenly getting paranoid about SSK being town (and Nacho still being town) in part because Domo is making a little sense but also because Norlkaz is (surprisingly?) making some sense. I'm not sure that I want to do this anymore. Someone please talk me back into it.

(Mod, please delete 4842? =/)

[Cephrir]

I am suddenly getting paranoid about SSK being town (and Nacho still being town) in part because Domo is making a little sense but also because Norlkaz is (surprisingly?) making some sense. I'm not sure that I want to do this anymore. Someone please talk me back into it.

what the fuck
you think he's making some sense although you agree his case is p much entirely fakeable? explain plz

Nacho's perspective on SSK's claimed actions makes sense. What scumteam coaches him to claim he didn't protect the masons?

[Cephrir]

Oh, and Pie I haven't forgotten your question. I am just not confident enough about Arthur-town at this point to defend him. I want him to explain a few things as well and see how it goes.

What is your read on Cephrir? Can you explain it?

Literally cannot tell you how infuriating this style of rabblerousing is. Every time someone asks anyone else "what is your read on cephrir" I want to fucking strangle them.

[Cephrir]

I don't get anything but the vaguest impressions by following the game

Me neither bro. It's okay.

[Cephrir]

Nacho's perspective on SSK's claimed actions makes sense. What scumteam coaches him to claim he didn't protect the masons?

good point but there's a possibility they might not be coaching him and he came up with that on his own

also I was referring to Norlkaz. you claim he makes sense but agree a lot of his points are fakeable. though looking back I think I misread your post and you were saying that the unfakeable point makes sense. is that correct?

Yep.

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ser Arthur Dayne

Not as confident as I once was here, but I like it better than anything else.

[Cephrir]

*throws fit*

[Cephrir]

You aren't reading everyone's posts, are you?

[Cephrir]

Hm, 8 votes on Casso, 4 of them from sketchballs. Yeah, definitely nothing wrong with this wagon!

[Cephrir]

I can't remember if Ffery helped town run Nacho up in Hard boiled. This isn't quite like Wisdom's game or 1429. 1429 was because Nacho was going after low hanging fruit and flip flopping on a newbie. Open was a messed up noisy game.

I didn't. My vote was on salmonella dr at the end of that game day IIRC. I was considering a vote change, but wanted to synch with GiF first. I think that was my second game with Tammy, and I wasn't sure what to make of her case about Nacho being "robotic", but she seemed super confident of her read.

I saw that though, and eventually agreed with her. It's a perfect description of what was wrong there, and I haven't seen a ton of scumcho elsewhere (in which I wasn't also scum anyway) but this is not happening here. =///

[Cephrir]

I suppose. I wish you'd have let him answer that. But I still find it weird because I don't feel like I benifitted from tammy's death, we'd be better off if she were still alive, so I don't see how that mindset is town.

As has been pointed out this is roughly 10 million miles from being a slip; in fact I almost like it b/c I'd expect scum to avoid that wording slash think more carefully about it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ser Arthur Dayne

Not as confident as I once was here, but I like it better than anything else.

Why not Desp, Cephrir?

I had a light townread on him but would vote him over you if that's what it comes down to. However, from my experience with him this game is so out of character that I have to think apathetic town. I'd be more likely to lynch Muffin, his counterpart, who I've seen be apathetic elsewhere.

Do you see parallels between his hydra play in Faraday's uPick and this game as a solo? If so, how

I see more parallels to his normal scum game than I do to his hydra play in ASOIAF. In both games I remember playing against Desp as scum (Wingate and Xenogears), he's had fits of activity but eventually fell completely below the surface. Here it's fairly similar; he's still pushing cases and he still has cases, but there's no effort to sort anything out or step it up at all even though a few people he feels are scum are completely under the radar in the consensus.

I actually literally don't think Desp could be playing less like he did in ASOIAF... making Bert's post kind of weird...

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

Wow.

Just, wow.

That's one hell of a slip.

vote desperado

You've just jumped from a decent townread to almost deserving a bus.jpg

He's been creating a theory where I coach SSK into intentionally acting scummy in order to take the heat off me (instead of reiterating the original push on him) and his entire case on me is based on that and how more people aren't currently voting me. And then when I point out that the basis of his case (scum aren't jumping on Nacho, thus Nacho is scum) is wrong, he accuses me of not scumhunting and doesn't actually address anything that I brought forward.

afaik he had more on you than this. iirc he did before and he certainly does now. someone tell me if I'm wrong plz

If he had more on me, what is it?

also, explain your zmuffin read? I don't get it. looking through your ISO I remember stuff like this

I measured to the 26th. Site downtime hasn't affected anyone else incredibly significantly, so I didn't think that it affected you that horribly. I think the difference is still important even when considering holidays.

but now it say his excuses for apathy are valid, and then also say it's "not what you'd expect from town muffin", when said apathy was iirc p much the whole reason for this. explain why the flip flop plz. and if that's not it then what other reservations are you having about him?

I agree that I was probably being a little bit too harsh in 4394 with Muffin earlier apathy. I have explained why I don't really think that an apathetic Muffin in this playlist is a townMuffin, but basic reasoning is that he usually enjoys town more than scum unless he has VIs to sort through, which frustrate him. In this game, there are no VIs and so I would expect him to enjoy sorting through all of this, but there's no sign of anything in his ISO. Where has Muffin actively scumhunted in this game? What has he contributed? Nothing, nothing. And I am completely aware that he can contribute more as either alignment, but I don't see why he hasn't contributed more here considering the usual complaints and obstacles aren't in place. Before, it was site downtime and holidays which is an "okay, fair enough". Now site downtime is done with, holidays are over... Why isn't Muffin stepping up?

Yes, this. On the other hand he was pretty apathetic in Fire Emblem too.

Nachos to disingenuous in the past few pages

Vote: Casso

Kaboom. Lollapalooza

What? How? Bert why are you making me doubt you =(

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

Wow.

Just, wow.

That's one hell of a slip.

vote desperado

I want to lynch this now :/

Get in line.

And such a bold statement without the fucking vote. Never had you down as a pussy bro. Testing the water to see who will join you?

This reaction sucks. Get in line? There wasn't a line until this post. That makes this whole post sound like fake aggression to me.

Why don't you trust casso then? I've had a fairly strong townread on them that only faltered like once.

Read my response to nacho. This isn't the nacho I expect, with a swagger and determination to see a scum read swing. And I couple that with the 'thor said it' get out clause to any inconsistency to be rather convenient, along with the timing of the SSK wagon against theirs.

But I still have doubts. I just find his lack of bite even when I exchange words with him a bit shitty.

Tell me why he is town

Oh please. You think they're lying about who posted what in a game with several players who can very easily tell them apart? Please.

Heh.

Nacho deserves a gold star for effort this game, that's for sure. Regardless of alignment or whether he dies or not.

Oddly enough, I've only seen this much effort from him once before! I wooooonder what game you've apparently read I could poooosssibly be referring to?

[Cephrir]

VOTE: generic

[Cephrir]

If you think no one is allowed to suspect you unless they're voting you, you may need to go back to the road to rome

Alternatively, you're trying really hard to look like emotional/aggressive town. Yeah I'm gonna go with that one.

[Cephrir]

By the way, if you say you were reaction testing, I'm calling bullshit and voting you more.

[Cephrir]

I have no idea what the fuck you're going on about

[Cephrir]

Please, tell me more about how you're so good at this game while calling something a town player is doing a scum tactic.

You can babble about scum tactics all you want, and since I seem to have guessed your response correctly I suppose that's pretty much all you felt you could do. At the end of the day, I have a town role PM, so I don't care and in fact have only confirmed my suspicions that you're an idiot.

Of course, I made that guess because your response was to patently retarded I couldn't imagine what else you would say except "lol jk backing out". I daresay you probably made the original post in the hopes you would get to say exactly what you've said thus far. My only question is why you'd make this random attack in presumably an attempt to lynch me (a very lynchable player, especially now that Nacho won't be as likely to stand up for me after the conclusion of asoiaf; and anyone can see I'm rather weak at defending myself just from this thread) now, unless it's to stop the desperado wagon.

[Cephrir]

By the way, you can shove your patronizing attitude up your ass.

[Cephrir]

Oh, now I'm crumbling. Interesting, I don't feel very crumbly. Apparently you think getting a vote is some sort of victory though. I didn't vote you because you told me to. I voted you because 5058 legitimately convinced me you're scum.

I would preemptively laugh about how certain you apparently are I'm scum (even though you aren't voting me, lol), but you obviously are one of those massive-ego "oh he was bad town and deserved it" types, so I won't bother.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and the 'woe is me, I'm such a victim' schtick... Lol

Hi. I'm Cephrir. It seems you've never read any of my posts.

[Cephrir]

But yes, it's pretty obvious you are deliberately trying to make a scapegoat out of me. I'm surprised you're pretending the contrary.

[Cephrir]

Oh, now I'm crumbling. Interesting, I don't feel very crumbly. Apparently you think getting a vote is some sort of victory though. I didn't vote you because you told me to. I voted you because 5058 legitimately convinced me you're scum.

I would preemptively laugh about how certain you apparently are I'm scum (even though you aren't voting me, lol), but you obviously are one of those massive-ego "oh he was bad town and deserved it" types, so I won't bother.

You don't feel very crumbly but you do feel like a victim who is so lynchable.

And I'm merely suspicious of you, like I'm suspicious of about four other people in this. but by the way on the one hand you are declaring you have me read as scum and know what I'm going to do next but then in the next breath you are this poor little low hanging fruit I don't know whether to laugh or vomit.

You wanna play AtE to avoid being seen as scummy while trying to sell my wagon you are better off WAITING to see if people are suspicious of you. You are too eager to cover tracks, it's embarrassing.

"I'm merely suspicious of you but here are all these things you're doing that are really obvious scum tactics and attempts to manipulate the town" ~Generic 2014

I hope you have the self-awareness to look back on this post whenever you finally manage to lynch me and feel like an asshole, but I doubt you're capable of it.

[Cephrir]

But yes, it's pretty obvious you are deliberately trying to make a scapegoat out of me. I'm surprised you're pretending the contrary.

Scapegoat for who exactly?

You seem to see a mythical wagon on you in your head. You attacked me, or are you just a little slow?

I dunno, it sure looks like you're trying to save Desp though. You sure are putting a lot of energy into derailing him while voting him. Nice bus.

There is always functionally a wagon on me. Getting lynched is my MO. If I survive to see Day 4, historically, I'm probably scum.

I have already been wagoned this game and pretty much no one feels better than lukewarm about me. It wouldn't be hard. It looks to me like you wanted to try this with Bro but realized either than he's a better player than me and wouldn't be as easy, or that he's not here enough to hand you the correct response in an appropriate amount of time.

If you think this isn't you attacking me, I can't help you, but you could try a psychiatrist.

[Cephrir]

If you want to imagine my responses while I play a game of LoL, pretend I respond to every post you make with some variation of "fuck you, you're scum".

[Cephrir]

Again cephrir. You are voting me. A vote I pushed you for.

Coincidence.

You then proceed to try and close the door on me, when you started the attack on me. All because you didn't like my vote on desp.

These two things are not related.

You then rant about how I'm trying to wagon you to protect desp... Eh?

You're trying to make me look scummy in the hopes of generating a wagon. Yes.

Then you rant how I'm picking on you cos you are an easy lynch... I'm still not voting for you.

I know you have trouble understanding this idea, as you demonstrated earlier, but you can push a suspicion without voting it. Besides, you haven't bussed Desp long enough, it'd be strange if you switched so soon!

Then you accuse me of making up things YOU ARE ACTUALLY POSTING, and then hope I feel stupid for lynching you and finding out you are town?

Just the one point here. Your hope that I feel stupid, that would suggest I'm town. But you said I'm scum, so which is it?

Well, you're scum regardless of what your role PM says. Sure, you could be town. Anyone could be town, I never claimed to be good at this game and I never will. Hell, SC flipped town, why should I have any confidence in anything. I'm sure you won't bother faking regret either, in the other case.

Again, you attacked me for voting desperado.

I expressed some suspicion of you for voting Desperado. You're the one who made this an attack by going straight for ad hom bullshit intended to make me look bad no matter how I responded.

My vote remains on desperado. You brought him up as the person I'm saving, yet I left a LARGER FUCKING WAGON to push his up.

"But I want towncred for bussing, stop trying to take it away from me!"

This feels like deflection. You chainsawed in, and now want to make out I'm the one trying to save desperado?

I'm not chainsawing shit, I've been calling it a bus the whole time.

I'm the only one calling you out on this obvious shit you are pulling cephrir, you are trying to play the victim when no one else is suspecting you.

If you honestly believed this, you would be voting me. Everyone else is suspecting me, are you reading the thread?

Are you new?

Go fuck yourself

And as for BRO, I've never left him. Notice how I kept goading him with you? He's just not here and you thought you could join the attacks on me and hope I wouldn't bite back.

Comical, really. Do I seriously sound like someone who expects backup? No, I expect to get a million votes when someone else shows up. Keep making shit up though, that'll look great later.

[Cephrir]

Nuh uh =(

[Cephrir]

Brilliant deduction!

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Desperado

Well, at least the stupidity has given me some scum reads, but alas, it seems I shan't get to vote them today, on principle or otherwise.

[Cephrir]

I have been justifying it.

I'm not as convinced as I started out (shhhh its a secret) but still think it's the best wagon by a longshot. If you'd prefer I move to you though perhaps that could be arranged (not really).

It disturbs me that you're scumreading me here after correctly scumreading me in my other two games with you ever (I think my play is pretty different here). I guess you just think I'm scum all the time and I've been giving you too much credit!

Thor managed to read someone correctly???

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Casso

Thanks for making this easy for me

Cephrir, was this post genuine?

Yes =/

I don't know why you bothered to phrase this as a question, though?

[Cephrir]

Even though I knew you were reading me wrong there, I still expect you to not get it wrong in the other direction. Especially given you didn't know I was scum in the other game yet and I hadn't been Scumriring (well, much anyway) in either game, suspecting me here would have been basically a scumclaim before now.

I suppose mindgaming might have played into it a little but still it was basically an honest reaction. You have a license to scumread me now, but you didn't then.

[Cephrir]

Hey Bert/whoever is voting Casso.

If Casso is scum, why is he bothering to try to sort me right now, and ending up on town? He doesn't need to score points with me, I have already expressed that I will basically vote any reasonable counterwagon.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Desperado

Well, at least the stupidity has given me some scum reads, but alas, it seems I shan't get to vote them today, on principle or otherwise.

Bert, if you can sell me the casso wagon over the desperado wagon I will move my vote.

Away you go.

Lol, don't give me that shit. It's been obvious I would ultimately vote Desperado for days.

[Cephrir]

And I was going to comment on how ludicrous that move of vote was btw but decided I simply couldn't be bothered anymore...

Just forgot up knock off the quote

There are 2 days to deadline. Anyone not voting Casso/Desp is being silly. It's obvious no wagon on you is going anywhere.

This is all really flagrantly fucking obvious.

[Cephrir]

If Casso is scum, why is he bothering to try to sort me right now, and ending up on town? He doesn't need to score points with me, I have already expressed that I will basically vote any reasonable counterwagon.

If scum, he wants to make sure he has secured a vote from you on any reasonable counterwagon and that things stay in the status quo. (by continuing to convince you even when it's not necessary)

But he already had that. As I'm pretty sure I had made clear.

[Cephrir]

It's really easy to feel good about your position and obvtown when you're a vig.

[Cephrir]

I don't think it's a scumslip either. Who said that had to be the end all be all? [/jumpingintoothers'linesofquestioning]

[Cephrir]

Why. Anyone can attach designations to players.

[Cephrir]

Slap. Slap. Slap.

[Cephrir]

I can't imagine why that would worry you?

People are going to argue with others' townreads.

For instance, there is a Casso wagon, and I'm pretty sure *everyone* on his wagon can't be scum.

[Cephrir]

Do you see him reconsidering? So why aren't you nervous about him?

I know your comments are sincere, but I already think you are very very wrong this game in general, so I take your opinion with a lot of grains of salt.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir has been keen to try and link me and desp and claim I was trying to derail that wagon using him as the scapegoat.

It's almost like I think that's true or something

This is the wagon he wouldn't join himself on that very same logic to provide me with the only vote of my wagon with only a few days to go, only to then leap off it when he thinks I'm not about and place it on desperado because he sees that as the way things are going.

I won't argue with any of this, now tell me why it's scummy. (except for "that very same logic"; I don't know what that refers to)

I tell you now cephrir, if desp flips scum you are my top suspect.

A) I will be your top "suspect" anyway. It's very obvious you're interested in either having me to point to as a relatively unique scumread for the rest of the game or mislynching me.
B) I find it amusing, however, that you're now trying to link me to Desp on the assertion I was trying to link you to Desp.
C) I take votes from scum as compliments.

Tactically makes sense you would want to discredit me, try and put focus on me to slow the desp wagon and then bus him now you see it not going away.

Lol, I knew you weren't getting lynched today. My mother could have figured that out.

[Cephrir]

P.S. I'm actually becoming town as shit right now, I know it sucks to watch that train roll away from you, but sometimes you gotta roll with the punches. Find another mislynch to push, I'm starting to think you may not get this one after all.

[Cephrir]

You knew I wasn't getting lynched yet you voted for me, made out I was trying to shift focus from the wagon I stayed on and then the dry next day, not even that, you move your vote onto the same wagon as me with the excuse of the deadline. So less that a day before the deadline is ages away but suddenly you are compromise lynching?

You are a riot cephrir, next you will be telling me being a moron is a town tell for you.

Yes. I am a viable wagon. You are not.

I'm allowed to vote on principle, but I want my vote on Desp now because the competing wagons are close. I don't actually think he'll flip scum.

Being a moron is a Cephrir tell, but you're still scum.

P.S. I'm actually becoming town as shit right now, I know it sucks to watch that train roll away from you, but sometimes you gotta roll with the punches. Find another mislynch to push, I'm starting to think you may not get this one after all.

Oh I love a self meta player, do tell me more about what everyone is thinking.

Meta? Who said anything about meta?

[Cephrir]

A) I don't self-meta, I just play games with Cabd/ffery/Nacho so they'll do it for me.
B) If I were to self-meta this argument, and I know I'm doing it right now by saying it and therefore look stupid re: point A, I would note there is precedent for a couple different elements of this tunnel on both sides of my alignment scale.

[Cephrir]

What you're doing looks like a bus to me.

Independently, Desp does not look like scum.

When he flips, I guess we'll see.

[Cephrir]

Your reads are just straight up terrible domo

Sorry mate

I'm even reconsidering SAD

=/

[Cephrir]

If Casso pulls ahead of Desp, I will volunteer to be lynched

[Cephrir]

We're going to lose this game because Cabd/ffery/Nacho are all town and no one is listening to them

[Cephrir]

If Casso pulls ahead of Desp, I will volunteer to be lynched

^ This reads as so manipulative. You CANNOT be so certain that Nacho is town that you are willing to get lynched in his place. Nacho is a good scum player. There will always be uncertainty and paranoia. Even ffery who can read him like a book isn't certain of his affiliation.

I'm not. I think there is a very very very good chance he is town, and I can see the writing on the wall re: me definitely getting lynched eventually. I am not an asset to town at this point; if anything, I am just a distraction, sucking up the energy of ffery & co pseudodefending me when they could be finding scum instead.

Also, I'm not having fun right now.

[Cephrir]

Basically ceph I'm reading it like this...

Yeah lynch me guys, but whatever you do don't lynch casso and then gunsmith check me.

You aren't going to survive the night. If you want to waste your time checking me and then lynching me anyway on suspicion of being a mafia doc, like you probably will, try it.

[Cephrir]

Vote your little hearts out, scum are winning this anyway so I may as well not be part of it

[Cephrir]

its almost as though contradiction isnt a

imaaagine that

[Cephrir]

I screwed up. I knew it was a hammer, but I wanted to get reactions and just end the day.

Those last minute flash wagons from D1 got on my nerves and so...yeah.

Huh? I dislike this post, it feels like you're trying to antidistance from me.

@Ffery/Nat:

Because this game is so big and I just wanna be set free, but I intend to put 100% into it until the very bitter end.

If I'm the lynch today, it actually strengthens the town block because their weakest link is gone and scum can't distract themselves by naming me like SAD did yesterday (and BBQ).

But then I like this post v.v

But ask yourself this:

Do you want another ooba or Benmage lasting till the end game? The answer is simple. No. I am this game's ooba/Benmage.

How is that true at all?

[Cephrir]

vote: Desp

\o/

Yeah, I was already voting Desp and don't believe in fake hammers.

See my fake hammer:

Vote: Desperado

Guys, Desp just got totally hammered guys. Watch out. Sakura, this is like such a buss.

Get ready guys, this hammer is fake. Let's all fake hammer Desp for lulz.

Just so you know bert, this post is a shocker. Coming off the wagon I raised an eyebrow to, but the way you returned to it feels very forced.

I was prevented from posting this by the threadlock yesterday, but I thought this post was fake as shit.

Bert, could you stop? You're preventing me from having any read on you whatsoever right now.

[Cephrir]

I'm still waiting to hear why SAD flipped on me yesterday for no apparent reason. Or maybe he answered and I forgot.

[Cephrir]

Bert, could you stop? You're preventing me from having any read on you whatsoever right now.

I haven't prevented Ffery or Falcon or Nacho from getting a read on me. Or even SAD and BBQ who scumread me. Why are you an exception?

I've been townreading you but you keep doing these weird little things to shoot yourself in the foot that you didn't do in the other game. It's weird.

[Cephrir]

Well that was redundant. But you get the idea. I keep wanting to call you twon but you're making it difficult.

[Cephrir]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

ok here's what I have so far. it's a big wall of text but I highly suggest you read it cause it seems p telling

Spoiler: TEXTWALL

I'm assuming MC and goodmorning are town, as well as geists bc gunsmith clear

Ser Arthur Dayne (6) - Casso the King of Seals, Bert,

Desperado

, Cephrir,

DOMO

,

pieguyn

pieguyn

(1) - Norlkaz
Cephrir (1) - Ser Arthur Dayne
Bert (1) - KoreanBBQ

Desperado

(1) - Sakura Hana

Not Voting (8) -

geists

,

MC Maraca

, F-16_Fighting_Falcon,

MafiaSSK

, zMuffinMan, Generic,

goodmorning

, BROseidon

-------------------------

MafiaSSK

(8) - zMuffinMan,

geists

,

Desperado

, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Bert, Generic, Cephrir
Casso the King of Seals (3) -

goodmorning

,

DOMO

, Norlkaz
Bert (2) - KoreanBBQ, Ser Arthur Dayne

Desperado

(1) -

MC Maraca

Ser Arthur Dayne (1) -

pieguyn

Cephrir (1) - F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Not Voting (2) -

MafiaSSK

, BROseidon

-------------------------

Casso the King of Seals (7) -

goodmorning

, Norlkaz, BROseidon, Generic, zMuffinMan,

geists

,

Desperado

Desperado

(3) -

MC Maraca

, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana
Ser Arthur Dayne (3) -

pieguyn

, Cephrir, Bert
Bert (2) - KoreanBBQ, Ser Arthur Dayne
Cephrir (1) - F-16_Fighting_Falcon

Not Voting (2) -

MafiaSSK

,

DOMO

-------------------------

Desperado

(8) -

MC Maraca

, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Generic,

geists

, Cephrir, Bert, Ser Arthur Dayne
Casso the King of Seals (5) -

goodmorning

, BROseidon, zMuffinMan,

Desperado

,

DOMO

Cephrir (2) - F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz
Bert (1) - KoreanBBQ
Ser Arthur Dayne (1) -

pieguyn

Not Voting (1) -

MafiaSSK

-------------------------

Desperado

(10)(LYNCH) -

MC Maraca

, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Generic, Cephrir, Ser Arthur Dayne,

geists

, KoreanBBQ,

pieguyn

, Bert
Casso the King of Seals (4) -

goodmorning

, BROseidon, zMuffinMan,

Desperado

Cephrir (3) - F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Norlkaz,

DOMO

Bert (1) -

MafiaSSK

Not Voting (0) - N/A

first off

EVERYONE: who do you think bussed SSK?

if we intersect that SSK wagon with the SSK deadline wagon at D1 we get {Casso, Sakura, Bert}. I'm calling Sakura town bc fuck it, and I'm hoping Bert is town. just hoping, not entirely sure, but oh fking well. leaving just Casso. looking through his ISO there's really not much interaction with Casso, just a small amount of questioning that doesn't really go much of anywhere (although that may be typical for SSK). now let's go back and look at D1

MafiaSSK (7) - Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, KoreanBBQ, Bert, MC Maraca, Ser Arthur Dayne, pieguyn
Sakura Hana (3) - Tammy, DOMO, Desperado
Casso the King of Seals (3) - zMuffinMan, goodmorning, Generic
Stuffed Crust (1) - Cephrir
F-16_Fighting_Falcon (1) - BROseidon
goodmorning (1) - Norlkaz

Not Voting (4) - MafiaSSK, F-16_Fighting_Falcon, Stuffed Crust, geists

then there's this

But I mean, let's check out the reasons why everyone are voting for me, because I think we'll all find that they're all made up

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

Casso the King of Seals

Pick someone else to take down.

I don't know who there will be enough votes on (potentially) to make this work and avoid a NL.

You don't like the SC or Falcon wagon, so who else would you compromise on that's actually likely to go well with your other townreads?

VOTE: Mafia SSK

I feel guilty as hell doing it, but.

Gives no reason for the vote. Neither before or after. Just keeps lumping me in with scum for really, no good reason.

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

Sakura Hana,

I guess so

Unvote
Vote: SSK

Woo. Look at this, another baseless vote. And you know, I thought Sakura was being obvtown, but this was just a weird vote for her.

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

KoreanBBQ

Does anyone townread mafiassk?
We can flashlynch that.

VOTE: SSK

I've been scumreading KoreanBBQ for a while now, but come one! A flashlynch? How could you get more scummy? You know what? It is scummy and bullshit.
So
VOTE: KoreanBBQ

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

Bert

Vote: MafiaSSK

I'm just voting him because Nacho is

Yeah.

Yeah. Bert pretty much always screws up my radar but this is one of the worst votes. Blatantly admits to sheeping Nacho. Buddying, sheeping, whatever you want to call it, it's not a real vote. Bert is voting off of how good Nacho is when Nacho/Thor didn't even put up a reason themselves. Bert is looking for easy votes. Ugh.

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

MC Maraca

Like literally there is no way to analyze anything of his wagon no matter the flip when he's lynched in half a day.

Bert somehow managed to coast, and still be called town in the most recent white flag, though.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

Oh come on Cabd, I expect more from you.
A. I go from null to scum in less than post.
B. You don't even give a reason for the vote!
Come on now people, my wagon is freaking meaningless!

But I digress.

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

Ser Arthur Dayne

I'll be out the whole day tomorrow, and

might

check in before the deadline on the 26th, but in case I don't.

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

Feel free to call this bussing if he flips town. That's likely to be the only piece of information you'll get from the wagon *shrug*

Yeah? You see how bad this vote is too? This just keeps happening.

But alas, there's one more vote to analyze. Let's see here

Day 1, Votecount 71

MafiaSSK (7)

-

pieguyn

holy crap my miss
sry, I don't have enough time/energy atm to follow what's going on >_<//I basically just saw "sakura wagon -> L-1 -> massive AtE/outburst/w.e happened -> it got disbanded -> SSK wagon" 0.0

how many votes are on SSK?

ok thx

vote: SSK

Nope. More sheeping.

So that's it folks, all seven votes, all completely reasonless. If you go and advance this lynch more, just know that. No one knows why they're voting me. They just want to.

now this one is interesting bc he votes BBQ. however, from what I can tell, there's nothing in his ISO indicating he has a townread on casso and casso is a bigger wagon. and in fact he was pissed off that casso was following Nati as indicated by this

How do you feel about SSK?

He seems like a good choice for common ground. Does Nati have a read on him yet?

I don't like the vagueness of this post. It feels like they're just ready to sheep Nat. I know that Nat and I have played together a while, but form your own opinions and have your own ground.

We haven't had a chance to talk about the game since SSK started to worry me.

Ffery, what am I doing that is worrying you?

Pedit: Cephrir, stop.

so why BBQ over casso here? is it bc your scumread on BBQ is so strong that you wanna start an entirely new wagon, despite making a deal over casso's sheeping of Nat earlier, when it's this close to deadline? or is it bc you don't wanna risk lynching your scumbuddy who'd a p good scumplayer

hint: it's bc you don't wanna risk lynching your scumbuddy who'd a p good scumplayer

so yeah Casso is scum. also here's the question again for clarity/convenience

EVERYONE: who do you think bussed SSK?

I might do more later but I dunno how much I can really get out o this. VCA is way harder in large games > <//

pie I hate to break it to you after all this work but I really don't think this is a good argument

Pie, I will also point out that SSK joined 1 major wagon (stuffed crust near deadline). His reaction to every other wagon has been "why is this wagon happening? I don't like it.". I don't know how you have a townread on Muffin.

I don't know how *anyone* has a townread on Muffin.

I was thinking about Cephrir's move on my walk today. It would be a hell of a scum move because the emotional manipulation is pretty fucking potent; when I read that post, I broke out in a massive smile and wanted to give Cephrir a big hug because he was a wonderful person. I know that there's a belief that good scum players can do anything, but it's the type of thing that I want to say feels too good to be coming from scum even though that lacks any sort of logic at all.

<3

I am going to feel so stupid if you're somehow scum but I guess then we'll be even.

Ffery. There was a good case on casso made by GM, and I for one am quite trusting it, and as for mara, well, SHE made that vote, not me.

Vote: MC Maraca

Call this vote on you symbolic because the GM case on me is shit and everyone knows it.

oh nacho

it's not the greatest case ever and is no thing of beauty but you two are good players, there's not likely a good case to be had on you

but you are scum.

This is one of the shittiest posts I have ever seen.

I've said this at least 4 times already but I would be tunneling the shit out of you if you weren't a mason.

Based on interactions with SSK, I think Ser Arthur Dayne is scum. His defense against an SSK flashwagon at the end of D1 based purely on the lack of associative tells is weak. I guess the flip side is that scum knew SSK wasn't dying D1 because he had a doc fake-claim so there would be some scum running him up. But, not claiming D1 would actually be beneficial for scum. And the reasoning is really bad. I am thinking SAD is very likely the second scum. Not sure about the others yet.

Sakura, can you answer my questions?

I thought SAD was scum at one point yesterday but I've seen some things that made me question the read. Maybe I'll pull them up for you later.

[Cephrir]

Someone who has played with Bert more than once, is he any good at faking the demeanor at all? Otherwise I'm just about ready to call him town [this is based on everything from his entry to page 100, not just up to this point].

I can fake that demeanor, and if you're trying to read me, that is not what you look for. I'm saying this now since you are very misguided about how to read me. I'm giving you a chance to try looking at this from a different light in case you are town. If you don't, I'll just sit content with a good gut scumread on you

currently, I think you are scum from your way of "sorting" me as if you're getting ready to vote me if the tide turns my way

it's the shady positioning. the "you make me want to call you town, but then you say weird things that are shooting yourself in the foot." That's the type of thing Ffery-scum says when fencesitting about me.

I am slowly figuring that out, yes. (But I'm still going to townread you if Hard Boiled-you happens again, and I have no concerns about you knowing that)

I'm fencesitting to hell and back on you right now. This fence is surprisingly comfortable. If you want to scumread me for that, be my guest.

[Cephrir]

Now you just have to tell me what the point is of defending SSK-scum who is guaranteed to be lynched eventually.

[Cephrir]

Was that not after SSK claimed doc? His claim was a death sentence.

[Cephrir]

Ffery. There was a good case on casso made by GM, and I for one am quite trusting it, and as for mara, well, SHE made that vote, not me.

Vote: MC Maraca

Call this vote on you symbolic because the GM case on me is shit and everyone knows it.

You know that we're town, and that vote isn't gonna do anything. You also know that I've been defending you, so me placing that vote didn't just come from no where. If you're town, instead of OMGUS'ing and attempting to flail, it'll probably be more conductive if you gave my hydra partner and my mason partner a reason to read you as town

Has he not already given you 499 reasons

[Cephrir]

No. We are lynching SSK today. If we have any remaining investigative roles we give them a night; SSK could be a scum PR; narrows the field for tomorrow though this one is probably not relevant. I see no compelling reason to do anything else.

[Cephrir]

pie: I guess I just don't put much stock in VCA this early.

I'll get down and dirty on associating SSK partners at some point, it actually hadn't occurred to me to start looking at it before he's even dead really, I'm sort of locked in on timing that in a pretty mechanical fashion.

I could try to explain my Casso townread, but I'd have to read all five fucking hundred of their posts again to really articulate it, and I /really don't want to/. tldr though, I have not seen him make this level of effort outside of ASOIAF. His town moments as scum tend to come in short bursts rather than be a continual pounding.

re not lynching SSK: perhaps the more important thing to me is that if we don't lynch scum today my morale for this game will drop from 0 to -15.

I did crusade against SAD but he's done some things since then (ie flipping on me) that don't make much sense from a scum perspective since then. He does deserve a reread though. Soon I'll probably comb his iso, make a wall about him with no particular point at the outset, and see what I end up thinking, because that is sort of what I do, and then I'll make all of you read the whole thing and follow my thought process because I can.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: SSK

[Cephrir]

I'm not saying lynch him now. We should use the heck out of the day phase. My vote is largely symbolic and I will unvote if things get out of control.

I guess it makes the most sense to let geists decide what to do with the day.

It doesn't "make sense". I just want to lynch the fucking scum.

Whatever, you're probably right, I just don't want you to be. Every time SSK posts I want to claw my eyes out.

[Cephrir]

Oh, I'm 6 votes. Ugh, I guess.

UNVOTE:

But I'm not happy about it. I'll leave my vote nowhere until it's actually decided whether we're lynching SSK.

Then again I will probably be breaking this promise within like 2 posts.

[Cephrir]

Oh, shut up.

[Cephrir]

Oh, shut up.

[Cephrir]

Oh, shut up.

[Cephrir]

....that makes bert town right

im not just imagining things right

[Cephrir]

wanna lynch Arthur with me?

if we were lynching someone other than SSK today, why sad over casso? what happened to you being sure casso was scum a few pages back?

tldr though, I have not seen him make this level of effort outside of ASOIAF. His town moments as scum tend to come in short bursts rather than be a continual pounding.

no. nacho is more than capable of :efforting: when he's being suspected as scum. i'm pretty fucking sure the effort isn't an alignment thing, and more a reaction to being suspected, which *might* be because he's town, but he'd do the same thing here as scum. how much of his posts are you actually reading? or what about his effort here looks town?

I assure you, I am reading 100% of all posts. I've also thought his sorting was really genuine particularly of me. I don't know if I can convince anyone here though. There is so much will here in the other direction that I'm losing motivation to try stopping it. Especially given that I'm headed out the door before long myself.

VOTE: Cephrir
For lack of a better way of describing the pattern, he lacks manliness.
Also he has a lot of posts which have "to exist" as a purpose.
And there are lots of little 'yup this is scum's in there.
I actually feel pretty good about this one.

I have seen a lot of reasons for me being scum over the course of my years here, but I'm not sure I've seen one this good at making the opposite of sense. When have I ever been a "manly" mafia player, especially as town. Confidence is literally a scumtell for me. This post might as well read "Cephrir is scum because he's town". That is how much sense you are making.

I'm not drawing direct parallels from ASOIAF, but having played with Cephrir before does help.
Tammy is perfectly capable of yelling at people who call her scum, and worked in combination with some of the people I'd read more closely or something like that.
Tammyscum wasn't a read that stood the test of... lasting more than 3 lines of my ISO?

"I'm completely ignoring every semblance of meta because it doesn't suit my point and Cephrir is playing nothing like he did as scum in that game but I really want to lynch him!!"

Cephrir, muffinman, BRO... GO!

Hey! I won't argue with you, but I'll answer your questions! I'm in a different zone since it's the school year, but yes here they are

Ceph - scum because of how he tried to sort me and is setting it up in a way so he can easily vote me, also gut pings everywhere on his posts. I have been the same Bert as I was in Hard Boiled, and even without knowing my scum meta, he never pronounced a townread on me that was solid. for me that's a scumclaim.

Muffin - lazy scum that is blending in and just coasts

BRO - town because gut and while I derided him about him reading me as town for all the wrong reasons (my "caring" is more as town BS), it is understandable given what he has seen me do as scum.

I don't have the energy/ability to do more in a large game like this, sorry

You have not been the same Bert you were in Hard Boiled. I will tell you when you are the same Bert you were in Hard Boiled. For one thing you have not even approached it at all until very recently, and some of that hasn't quite sat well with me. I hate to use the word 'forced', but I don't have a better word. I am in all probability going to keep fencesitting on you until I get lynched.

For the sake of posting anything at all not completely related to myself, the non-SSK players I am currently most interested in lynching are Generic, Norl, Muffin, |gap| SAD, in that order.

[Cephrir]

ALSO Bert

What you are saying here makes me suspect you for reasons I can't talk about and frankly screw you for doing what you're doing.

[Cephrir]

What you are saying here makes me suspect you for reasons I can't talk about and frankly screw you for doing what you're doing.

That's not what I meant. Ugh. OK, so you are in the same position with me as I was with Broseidon.

We had only been in one game together. Broseidon and I had only been in Hard Boiled together.

Basically, since this game, I've been able to look back at Broseidon's attitude and tone and realize that just because he can be abrasive doesn't mean he's scum. Otherwise, I was on track to scumread him no matter what game I was in with him.

What initially made me very paranoid and tempted about BOTH Muffin and BRO was their reputation as scum.

It's just like Titus, who I always gut scumread and can't do anything about. Muffin is the one that's coasting, not Bro at this point.

You kind of missed the point. But I'm shutting up now.

You have not been the same Bert you were in Hard Boiled. I will tell you when you are the same Bert you were in Hard Boiled.

I'm starting to think I don't know what you're "looking for," but regardless a large game is not my element where I can magically become whatever "Bert" you're looking for. I also have no completed large games to my credit. No games over 13 players, ever.

Which is why I'm not asking you to. And I don't know if I even know.

This game will probably go a long way towards helping me read you in the future, I hope. For now, again, fencesitting. It's a little weird that you just called me scum for not townreading you and backed off that so far here you are basically falling off whatever you were standing on.

But yes, in summary, I have sort of given up on reading you here and will carry this forward for next time.

[Cephrir]

I actually can't believe y'all lynched my slot after those day 2 interactions, get real.

In other news I'm never townreading Nacho ever again