How come you aren't my friend?
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
Popularity levels are, as I understand it, the way to neighborize other people. You can only neighborize people who have a lower number than you. So you have more power if you have a higher number.PranaDevil wrote:I have no idea what the popularity levels mean at this stage, and I'm guessing the popularity levels wont have that much of an effect on players being town/scum.
Also Andrius, didn't you learn from the last game we played together to not go outing yourself even if you're a vanilla? It means less people the scum need to look at to get to the power roles. I don't think you'll have forgotten that so quickly.FoS: Andrius
For now though I'm going to...
Vote: Vollkan
Leading me round the bloody houses last time, I'll have a closer eye on you this game matey.
It also re-solidified the fact that uber-town players who survive N3 must be scum.vollkan wrote: I'm glad Mini 951 taught you something![]()
I didn't want to come in here and throw my dirty laundry in front of everyone.vollkan wrote: Why opt against it?
We also might have PRs that actually use this neighborizing mechanic. Say we have a town player who can increase the popularity of a fellow player by one. Or a mafia player who can decrease the popularity of a player by one. /setup speculationvollkan wrote: The only risk I can see in such a mass popularity claim is that scum may have knowledge that they can use to link popularity to power roles. That seems unlikely to me, though, since it seems that the popularity just affects the neighbourising.
This is good stuff. (I'd cite an ongoing game with similar mechanics, but I'd get killed so.) The scum will definitely try to avoid extra exposure to the town. They'll definitely try to target someone higher than they are, especially if their number is high to begin with.vollkan wrote:scum can try avoid having to talk to at least one townie by targeting somebody they think is higher than they are. Having everybody's popularity out in the open would remove any excuse for scum not talking to somebody.In addition to this, I would also say that I think we should implement a policy of requiring people to identify explain their choice of conversation target; it will force people to use the ability for sensible reasons which is both pro-town and anti-scum.
True. So we definitely need to organize a list like that to prevent the scum from being able to fake-claim a failed attempt at neighborizing.PD wrote: Regarding the bolded bit there, they wouldn't be able to. If we all said "target the person below you in the list" then anyone who didn't would be automatically pointed out as scum. They would basically be forced into neighboring with the person below them or being known as scum.
That's why I knew you were scum. If I were you, I wouldn't have killed Raber, let alone anyone. Killing Raber made me lose another suspect, and I couldn't see lynx as scum with IK or you. So it had to be both of you.vollkan wrote: I was seriously quite surprised that nobody asked IK or myself why the hell we were still alive come D4.
The role wouldn't come into effect until the next night then. Like, if I target you N1, your popularity wouldn't move until D2. It would have to be like a Miller claim- as soon as you can that is.vollkan wrote: 1) Assuming that such a role could be used in passing period n and then the target has the new rank in passing period n + 1, then the biggest risk is simply that the person they speak to, if it is somsebody that they could not have spoken to before, will accuse them of having lied about their ranking.
2) However, we already know that it will be impossible for scum to lie at the initial claim stage because they will get counterclaimed.
3) Accordingly, any purported change in popularity ranking will have to be true
Oh so you're saying they shouldn't claim (assuming that such a power exists, of course). I don't see how this could out another PR.vollkan wrote: The fact that the changes would be caused by a power role (though, we don't know of what alignment) instinctively makes me think that such changes should not be changed. Reason being is that, as a general rule I think, a person would want to increase the ranking of somebody they consider pro-town (so as to give them more choice) and decrease the ranking of somebody they suspect (so as to reduce their ability to pick their scumbuddies and avoid exposure to the town); hence, claiming changes, (publicly, since people might well target somebody they think is likely town and tell them about the change) could out a PR. So, at this stage I don't think changes should be publicly claimed.
Ok. It makes sense. It allows for alot of WIFOM, especially with a popularity lowerer.vollkan wrote: I'm not rigidly against it in all cases, I should add.
For instance, I think claiming is probably appropriate where a player who is generally regarded as being likely town (ie. the player knows that a relatively high proportion of the other players think they are town) goes down in their ranking. Reason being that such a fall most likely indicates that scum are trying to cripple them a bit, so it could be a valid towntell for that player. Obviously, though, if that X is the player whose ranking goes down despite being regarded generally as town and X is heavily suspected by Y and Y is also town, then X probably shouldn't claim. Basically, it's probably a judgment call thing best left to the player whose ranking goes down.
I only mentioned it because it is very similar to this game, in a way. But I will refrain from saying anything rule-breaking.Tasky wrote: third, please don't talk about other games if they are not relevant to scumhunting in this game
I'm rather curious as to this reason, given that there's not much info you could be using. Its not like we had a night start. :/Tasky wrote:for fun... and for a reason that I'll tell later (it would self-nullify if told)Friend wrote: And why would you like to start a wagon on vollkan, who has arguably been one of the most pro-town players so far in this early game?
It might work, it would take 2 nights to set it up though.Friend wrote: @MOD: If I successfully neighborize someone, and that person also successfully neighborizes someone, do we get a three-way quicktopic? Or is it two separate two-way QTs?
I support this. I'm still curious as to what the mystery reason was.vollkan wrote: I meant everybody votes to force you to reveal your reason.
To be fair, I think I mentioned it first, and vollkan claimed first.Xite wrote: Ok, so you're the one that started this whole mass popularity claim idea right?
Look at your role in your role PM, and see if it could explain your spot on the popularity ladder. That's why I think popularity is nonrandom.NicolBolas wrote: @andrius, I dont know, it was just a question. (popularity being nonrandom)
He looks town now.Friend wrote: 7. vollkan was, in my mind, acting very pro-town.
Ok good.NicolBolas wrote: @andrius, I will not comment more on that, but I think i see what you mean.
2) I guess that's acceptable at the moment.Xite wrote: 1) May have missed it, will re-read. I really think it was him first (I went back and checked on the first person to mention it when I made my big post of things, part of the reason I noticed friend at all)
2) Nope, just not seeing anything scummy/worth mentioning from you yet.
3) Exactly what I've been saying
4) Please don't blame it on noobieness we could be alts, or in my case played elsewhere. I thuroughly believe in what I'm saying.
My bad.Xite wrote: @Andrius
1) on reread, he was the first one to mention a mass claim
all you did was soft claim your popularity
I see Masons and instantly infer they're alignment-confirmed. Neighbors aren't AC, Masons are. /my experience I just wanted to clear that up.Max wrote:Masons are neighbours. This is a mafia theory discussion not suitable for the game. But whenever I say mason realise I don't mean confirmed masons.
TheLonging is above me. I don't have a particular town/scum read on him, but he still hasn't finished his read-through analysis post which is questionable.Max wrote: Questions to All
- Do you feel that The Player one above you on the ranking list is scum?
- If you had to choose now who would you lynch?
- Who do you think is most town at this time?
Yeah really. >_>PD wrote: Vollkan looks pro-town as anything, but I do know from experience that looking pro-town and being pro-town are seperate things. Especially where Vollkan is concerned.
Technically, had Sando voted Tasky (which he was willing to do) Tasky would have been at L-2, which is acceptable claiming ground.Friend wrote:This is too soon for claiming. While I still think Tasky is the scummiest, we need to talk more. Sando seems a little too aggressive.
I... yeah, that is true. Can't deny it. But I did win the first one, so.VasudeVa wrote:I have a history with Andrius. If I get lynched D1, he's scum. COUNT ON IT.
Will catch up after lunch. (I'm on a weird timezone so.).
No, I'm pretty sure I was arguing that popularity is non-random, as seen by our roles.Vas wrote: Page 6:
Okay, I have no idea what Andy means with popularity being non-random. My 'flavor' role makes sense with my popularity rank.
Bah. Tell me which one and I can try harder. :/Vas wrote: - Points for Andy because he seems to not be able to properly express himself in 1 post evidenced by people continously asking him 'Wait what?'. Sorry Andy~
So would you vote on a Tasky lynch?Vas wrote: Conclusion:
Tasky is a reasonable lynch.
I'll take what I can get, I suppose.Max wrote: Andrius
Nothing particularly outstanding for me either way. Doesn't appear to be scum, but I'm always apprehensive of people who (like him) blend in...
Yeah, same answer here. We three played in a mini normal. I played my worst D1 ever, then got semi-town-confirmed D3. I know I'm watching vollkan since that game; he was a town-read of mine, but I was surprised to see him live to D4, which was very scummy. So yes, I'll be watching him. PD's leaning town IMO.PD wrote:Played with him in a recent Mini-Normal (along with Andrius). As I've only played a single game with him I also don't think it's fair to judge him based solely on that one game, as I don't have enough of a viewpoint to know how he plays regularly as mafia or town to say either way. In the game I played with Vollkan he was scum, but he was one of the most pro-town players in the game. The other pro-town player was also scum incidentally. That game however was plagued with stupidity, tunnelling, and about half of the players just outright disappearing. So while myself, Vollkan and Andrius have played in the same game previously, it only really leads to us knowing of each other, as opposed to being able to spot any tells from each other.Max wrote: Answer 3: Have you played with Vollkan before? Do you feel that he is playing in the same way he does as scum?
I'm still a bit unclear as to what you mean.Vas wrote: @Andy: It's the 'not opt to' and the nonrandom point + some of my previous experience with you. Some of your points have to be explained before people understand what you meant by it rather than having it clear with one post.
Here it is again.NicolBolas wrote: Popularity List:
1. Max
2. PranaDevil
3. Scott Brosius
4. NicolBolas
5. vollkan
6. Sando
7. Seraphim
8. Friend
9. TheLonging
10. Andrius
11. Tasky
12. Xite91
I meant that it doesn't help us, in the sense that we won't know (ATM) that all the scum are there.Max wrote:Well A helps us. As does D if a majority of players don't want tasky lynched then we move on and find someone we do.@ Max: Either D or A doesn't help us out at all.
This game better not fall through. I would be a sad panda.PD wrote: By my calculations, that's 2 replacements required, and another potential replacement... seriously? The last mini normal I played in (Alongside Vollkan and Andrius) was plagued with people vanishing, I hope this game doesn't go the same way.
Wasn't posted. It was for my comprehension, not a "I'll reread and post some thoughts".Sando wrote: The reread was never done btw, or at least wasn't posted.
I saw it. I chose not to comment on the claim. Foreign exchange students are pretty popular at my school, but that isn't going to make this game any different, so I kept my mouth shut.Tasky wrote: I notice everyone has avoided actually looking at Tasky's claim or commenting on my analysis.
I was "entertaining the thought" which is nothing more than me thinking about it for a couple seconds. A passing trend, if you will.RayFrost wrote:Woohoo for lack of reasoning! Go andri, go andri, you're scummy!Andrius wrote:I saw it. I chose not to comment on the claim. Foreign exchange students are pretty popular at my school, but that isn't going to make this game any different, so I kept my mouth shut.Tasky wrote: I notice everyone has avoided actually looking at Tasky's claim or commenting on my analysis.
An OMGUS vote and a sudden case out of nowhere? I'm entertaining the thought of Tasky/Sando, or Sando/FriendRayFrost.
Seriously.
You aren't giving any reasoning as to how tasky / sando is realistic, why sando is scummy, or how I am scummy, or how sando / me is realistic.
Do so. Now. Preferably with pringles as a gift. Everything is better with pringles.
Gut, and their constant bickering when they were actually in the game.RayFrost wrote:[Reasoning Needed]Andy wrote: Ok, here's my 2 cents.
One of Xite/Friend is probably scum (if Tasky isn't).
>_> That was a big slam, Prana. I'm not trying to play VI. I just failed in my original take on this game: I was going to just post and be active like I have never been before. That obviously failed once everyone else came in, and I got lazy.PD wrote: Andrius, I was pretty much content with ignoring you day one and looking back on you later, solely because my previous experience with you was such that it was nigh on impossible to work out if you were town or scum as you played the VI role to perfection, and I admit, the chances of you doing so again are likely.
I've been ignoring RC in this game because its part of the RC/Andy meta for him to vote me, so. Should probably stop ignoring him.PD wrote: That he thinks Andrius is scum, RC is town, and he just wants any lynch day 1? Possible but anti-town. Knows Andrius is scum thanks to other info? I'm leaning that way), but he also hasn't responded to the fact people are saying he needs to post more and has spectacularly failed to actually do anything of actual use in the game up to now.
I think you mean YOU get lynched D1. >_> I don't get lynched D1.VV wrote: With Andrius: Well, I'll be upfront and honest with you now that I don't want him lynched yet coz we've been wanting to play together for a while now(especially since, in ALL of our games together thus far, one of us gets lynched D1.) But I really can't disagree with both you and Sando's points against him.
I have experienced him play scum twice and so far, isn't really playing like his scumself.He's so obv when he's scum it's kinda cute(See: Greek Mythology, Trader Mafia.). I'll gladly move my vote if/when he becomes scummier.
"Welcome to mafiascum.net, where we see Andrius is a cautious town player. Tune into *on-going game* to see him take 2 pages to hammer someone!" [/sarcasm]vollkan wrote: You say the wagon isn't going anywhere, implying that's a bad thing. You then say Tasky is seeming town to you (so surely that makes redundant the fact that the wagon isn't going there), but then you'd be willing to swap again at deadline (for somebody you are leaning town on??). Heavily suggests hedging of one's bets. +3
About what? (It might help me remember later.)Max wrote: Remind me when this game is up to make a MD thread.
So shoot me. I was asking people for their opinions on something. I'm not telling them "IT MUST BE A OR B SO GO AHEAD AND NOT BOTHER THINKING FOR YOURSELF".RF wrote: THIS IS NOT GOOD POSTING. Sure, you state the completely obvious, and there's not really anything wrong with that. But then you try and force people to consider only two possibilities without any personal analysis of it. This, in of itself, is suspect.
That would be me coasting along not doing anything helpful. I do that alot, I admit. >_>RF wrote: Your lack of analysis isn't helping at all either, so call it even.
I don't think the case was bad. I voted him, remember?RF wrote: Sure, it's possible, so is what PD said. I don't like the fact you also fail to consider the possibility that... *suspenseful pause* ... the case is bad. You seem to assume that he's either scum or the scum are already on him. Now, naturally, 2.a could encompass lolbadcase, but you don't discuss that part of the scenario... nor do you really discuss anything.
A lynch is better than no lynch. I'd be willing to vote anyone over a No Lynch, given its D1. (Assuming they don't claim a PR, *insert good reason here*, etc.)RF wrote: I really, really, really, really dislike this post. You unvote him based off of "the wagon isn't going anywhere" and then also say you are now leaning town on him while being willing to vote at deadline.
Is the first line what I did or what I should've done?RF wrote: 1. If the wagon isn't going anywhere, you reiterate your case, etc. I also dislike the fact this comes after I asked for a brief summary of the tasky case. Feels like a dodge and also jumping off a wagon as it loses steam (a la lack of conviction)
Yes I did. I'm assuming the other people are reading the thread to see what Tasky's been doing. If they don't agree, I can debate it.RF wrote: 2. You say tasky's been "doing well on his own" without much explanation. It seems like a very generic way of excusing your previous suspicion. In addition, it's something that would (hypothetically) make me feel that you, as scum, were trying to bus. (he's doing well on his own kinda implies you were trying to improve his situation with the vote or some such, could be wrong on my interpretation)
Well, it was me being lazy and me liking the case on Sando and other stuff. It wasn't the most popular wagon (I think), I'm pretty sure Tasky was still #1. Not coattailin'.RF wrote:3. You vote sando without giving any reason whatsoever as to why you are. It really is looking like you are just jumping on the most popular wagon without really justifying why. Coattailin' anybody?
No, I didn't discuss anything. Coasting by, as stated before. You caught me: lazy town player. Slap me in irons and lead me to the gallows. I hope you're not surprised.RF wrote: Main point of contention in bold. Conveniently ignored.
Town read =/= town. Read POWERFUL WIZARD MAFIA. Town reads aren't always town aligned.RF wrote: Then that'd make the comment moot, besides, you should not be willing to vote somebody you think is town at deadline - it's better to vote somebody you DO NOT think is town. The issue is willingness to lynch a town read.
Well, there's another prime example of me being lazy.RF wrote: The first line is what you should've done if you still felt the case was good.
Yep, pretty much. If they want to debate it they will. If not, no. Horrible reasoning or not, that's what happened, so.RF wrote: "I assume others are reading the thread, so I don't have to explain myself" ~= what you are saying here, imo... and it's horrible reasoning.
RF wrote: A wagon that "isn't going anywhere" is hardly #1. Especially considering there were two very active players attacking sando (max + vollkan = lethal combo, imo). The fact that you are just giving a generic "I like the case and other stuff [that will not in any way be discussed or explained by me]" is actually reinforcement of the coattailing idea. You are giving a blanket agreement with two highly active and semi-aggressive players while pretending to give a semblance of actual content while not really doing so. (note: VV attacked PD on this issue but not andrius). I'd also like to note that vollk was on the tasky wagon and was then moving to an attack on sando. You were on the tasky wagon and are now moving on to sando. If this isn't playing "follow vollkan" I really don't know what is.
1) It still can be, and was.
2) vollkan being 'lethal' is somewhat funny, given the our last game together he was a town-read but mafia, so.
2x) So i'm supposed to sit here and let vollkan and Max just work on Sando? Yeah, because those two have enough votes to lynch the man. [/sarcasm]
3) I'm doing the "follow the good case on probable scum" play. I wouldn't follow vollkan, especially after 951.
That's it for today.
I put that line into my schnazzy new Wiki page.VV wrote: @ Andrius: Oh come on. You know what I mean.. I'm pretty sure you are Town, and you arey my strongest Town read right about now(Since all the other Town reads I have are slightly weaker.) Explanations come when asked.
Where the hell are the other replacements anyhow? D:
--; Show it to me and I'll take a look; don't expect anything ground-breaking though.Sando wrote: Lolwat? There's an entire post of mine dedicated to you, with all of the quotes directed at you, where I voted you.
I went abroad, and didn't realize that there wouldn't be Internet until it was too late. So I failed in taking a V/LA.Sando wrote: Andrius has decided now is a good time to go VLA.
bv flakes out of alot of games. :/ It makes me frustrated. :\VasudeVa wrote:Erratum:
Don't like bv310 flaking without even posting once though.bv310 posted once in a while when I read him correctly as Town. This is different and I don't like it. Plus Nicol's play leaves nothing to be desired.
Ugh.
We played with him before?VasudeVa wrote:Yeah, I noticed that. I read him correctly in our last game together though, but I don't like this bv here.