Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)
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acryon Mafia Scum
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acryon Mafia Scum
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I was just trying to sheep I thought we were friends?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 17, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:im going to seer u tonight
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 21, Ginko wrote:
That is a very hurtful RVS.Gliffie wrote:Because hydras suck. Really suck. Remove please.
acryon wrote:I'm with Gliffie.Ginko wrote:That is a very hurtful RVS.
-Cheet
Nothing personal Cheet. Although it is personal toward Johnny since he was scum in the only game I've played with him.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 23, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:Ok what's the background story between all you people who know each other so I'm not flying blind
I don't know anyone but Ginko, who is a hydra of Cheetory/JohnnyFarrarr. In the game I played with the two, Cheetory was weirdly run up and lynched early D1, and vengekilled JohnnyFarrar who was scum. So even then, I don't actually know them since they both died before I even got a chance to look at the game. Then Cheetory replaced into a slot overnight one game where I was scum and I had already chosen to kill the slot, so he never got to play. That's our history.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 27, Ginko wrote:In post 24, acryon wrote:and vengekilled JohnnyFarrar who was scum.
I managed to get on your bad side after six hours of playing together? I'm better at this than I thought.
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acryon Mafia Scum
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@Mod: I'll be V/LA over the weekend like I normally am.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 40, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:acryon wrote:I'm fine with that, because then you can trust me
I don't like that this doesn't acknowledge the mafia faction and instead shows that you might be seeing the game in a werewolf/not-werewolf kinda way. Someone tell me if I'm reading too much into this post too, because it also feels like it could be just loljokes.
This is just me having never played with more than 2 factions before and not knowing how to read. All of my IRL play was Werewolf and all of it here was mafia, so I'm used to the Seer/Cop simply getting Green/Red checks and not something more complicated.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 44, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:^Hmm... I mean, I honestly would've preferred it if you told me those were just loljokes (there's also that even cop roles have their multitude of variations, so I still somehow expected people to read what the one town PR does, but whatevs, maybe that's I'm being too strict here).
Well there was obviously a joking tone too, hence the smiley. But I will admit I didn't think about the fact that the Seer read Werewolf/Non-werewolf and not Bad/Good, which is essentially how its read in every game I have played. It was more of a "Oh Seer, I know what that does, it's a werewolf flavored cop" and didn't think about it much more than that.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 53, Aristophanes wrote:Acryon seems like he's gotten kinda defensive. He also hasn't really done much contributing as of yet. Acryon, other than thinking my tone to be funny, what are your thoughts on the players here? Ginko and Lyserg have said stuff, why not look into them a bit?
This is quite weird to me. For one, I didn’t think I was being defensive at all, but given someone else also mentioned that, I guess I’ll accept that it looked like I was.
Why did you ask me to look specifically into Ginko and Lyserg? Other people said things, and people like Orc said quite a bit, but for some reason you mentioned those two specifically.
And then you say:
In post 53, Aristophanes wrote:Ginko and Lyserg are alright in my books thus far.
Why do you want me to specifically look at the two people you think are fine? This isn’t normal town behavior in my experience. If you were to ask me to look into someone, normally it would make sense for it to be someone you suspected.
VOTE: Aristophanes
In post 101, Metalcyanide wrote:VOTE: UNvote: orcinus_theoriginal aside from missing a post which answered my question his post since then don't seem especially scummy. But I'm having trouble with this 3 team thing so he could still be scum but just hunting the other scum. Who knows at this point.
I would like to see more from people before really coming up with anything definite.
This post says approximately nothing. You had one vote out there for some amount of pressure presumably, and then remove it saying that he could still be scum, “who knows”, and that’s all?
I also didn't realized I was following orc's vote again until I got to this page, but whatever. Ari seems like scum.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 123, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:
@Acryon: Same questions^. The fact that you felt the need to say you hadn't realised you were "following Orc's vote" rather than just... well, not say it, also makes me interested in your read or experience with him (if any).
I said it because the first time I followed him I said I was sheeping him, and was joking. Wanted it to be clear that I was not.
Re: Orc
I'm feeling like he is town. Mostly gut combined with his play and apparent direction here matching up with what I've seen from him in other recent games.
West seems town. I'm null on Ginko. If Ihadto big a second scumspect, it would be metal, because 101 feels very off, although there's not much in general to analyze from him. I'm torn on you. I can't tell whether the nitpicking/detail questioning (not meaning this in a negative way) is trying to reconcile your own thoughts or place undeserved suspicion on players. I'm leaning toward the former, but I can't say for sure.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 125, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:hey acryon i've played with you before
tell me that i'm not going crazy and that there is actually a clear contradiction in
1) cheetory first expresses explicit knowledge of what i mean when i said "cheet is baiting ari"
2) cheetory then says he doesn't know what i'm talking about
and that the point is actually flying right over lyserg and ari's head, as opposed to say me being batshit insane
I'm not sure that there is a clear contradiction, because I'm unsure what he meant by the "I'll come back to you on this." It's sort of weird to dodge it the first time like that, but I would need to know what the purpose of that comment was.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 127, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:yeah butwe're all going to give cheet the space he wants to do whatever it is he wants to do
he said "i'll come back to you on this" meaning he knows what the 'this' is.
In fact, cheet says right here that he was just tired, and claims to have forgotten what i was talking about.
In post 108, Ginko wrote:I was tired this morning, hungover and looking over four games of mafia. Pitch the scum-motivation in pretending that I didn't know what you were talking about when I literally asked you to point it out to me. Why would I fake that? What would the point be?
so it was a contradiction.
first he said that he'd come back to me which is an implicit acknowledgement of what i was talking about
then he said that he didn't know what i was talking about
the second statement is therefore a lie
I don't think it's as clear-cut as you are saying it is here. Idothink the "I'll come back to you on this," seems to imply he had something to say about it beyond "I don't know what you're talking about." Because if that was the case, why wouldn't he just say it there? I think it is more him being odd than him lying, although both are worth looking at.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 135, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:Acryon wrote:I said it because the first time I followed him I said I was sheeping him, and was joking. Wanted it to be clear that I was not.
Clear that it wasn't a joke? I mean, the tone and context is completely different from that of your RVS vote anyways, but whatevs. The person you sheeped was totes Gliffie and not Orc, but main point of what you said stays the same I suppose (and yeh, I can be fairly nitpicky at times P=, thou except for maybe my first two posts I'm not sure which of my stuff could feel super nitpicky to you... eh, if you feel like some of those are suspicious you should like, engage me more in conversation about it or something...).
Yeah, nitpicky probably wasn't the right word. That's why I added the extra note, because nitpicky is too negative a word for what I was trying to express.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 140, VysePresident wrote:In post 121, acryon wrote:In post 53, Aristophanes wrote:Acryon seems like he's gotten kinda defensive. He also hasn't really done much contributing as of yet. Acryon, other than thinking my tone to be funny, what are your thoughts on the players here? Ginko and Lyserg have said stuff, why not look into them a bit?
This is quite weird to me. For one, I didn’t think I was being defensive at all, but given someone else also mentioned that, I guess I’ll accept that it looked like I was.
Why did you ask me to look specifically into Ginko and Lyserg? Other people said things, and people like Orc said quite a bit, but for some reason you mentioned those two specifically.
And then you say:
In post 53, Aristophanes wrote:Ginko and Lyserg are alright in my books thus far.
Why do you want me to specifically look at the two people you think are fine? This isn’t normal town behavior in my experience. If you were to ask me to look into someone, normally it would make sense for it to be someone you suspected.
VOTE: Aristophanes
Why did this merit a vote?
Why wouldn't it merit a vote? Votes exist for more than to just show a desire to lynch.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 144, Ginko wrote:@Ari, how much do you remember from our hangout before New Years a little while ago?
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 147, Ginko wrote:I think I'm working on a bigger post and wanted to ask that first.
-Cheetory6
Whether you intended it or not, making a seemingly fluff-post when you have standing questions makes it look like you're dodging.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 150, Ginko wrote:
In the same post you said that Aristophanes seemed like scum. Why're you trying to act like your vote wasn't serious now when it really seems like it was?Acryon wrote:Why wouldn't it merit a vote? Votes exist for more than to just show a desire to lynch.
I also never said or acted like it wasn't serious. Sometimes I vote for people because they are scum and I want them dead. Sometimes I vote for people because I think they may be scum and I think a little pressure is good to see how they react. Both are serious, and both are based in scum-reads, although of different degrees.
And I also don't think it's out of line to assume a question about your New Years hangout with someone was not related to this game and therefore fluff.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 150, Ginko wrote:Metal- nulltown, there's just a lot of the right kind of paranoia in his last 1-2 posts that strike me as town. His connection between orci/Acryon feels deep.
Why does it feel deep? Especially considering posts like 16 and 18.
In post 150, Ginko wrote:
Orci: "Your questioning of Ari is opportunistic/baity."Ginko wrote:Orcinus wrote:it feels like you are setting ari up for a mislynch or at least baiting him into a bad situation because i was obviously underplaying my own strength
Can I come back to you on this?
Ginko: "I don't really agree because I'm actually kind of leaning town on Ari right now, but I can't say that I'm leaning town on Ari out loud right now because if I do then it will out a behavior check I'm trying right now. I will explain my thoughts on Ari later."
Hopefully you don't think anyone should have been able to ascertain that at this point in the game.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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Hi farside.
One question. Are you mafia, werewolf, or town?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 157, farside22 wrote:
Hi.
Town.
Are you really expecting anything other then that for a response?
Hi to everyone else.
I'll be reading up later today.
Nope. I'm just getting you involved right off the bat.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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A couple things strike me as off here.
In post 163, Lalendra wrote:Acryon – Seemed to bandwagon early with Gliffie’s anti-hydra vote on Ginko, but that could just be a reaction test (or an intense dislike of hydras). I honestly don't have much of a read on this one, even though he's posted quite a bit.
As you yourself stated, I have posted quite a bit, but the one thing you decide to look at and comment on is a joke post on the first page?
Aristophanes – Thank you for birthday wishes! Typical Ari, from what I’ve seen; some general silliness, but that's not out of alignment with his meta, from what I've seen. I don't know if I'm 100% convinced he's scum, and at any rate I'm not quite convinced enough to fling a vote there. I'd hate to see a D1 no-lynch, but I'd hate a mislynch too.
You went from this to voting him just because of a naked vote? Do you think naked votes are alignment-indicative?
Lyserg-Zeroz – Leaning scum. He was okay with putting Ari close to a lynch, saying in uncertain/vague terms that he didn’t like Ari’s response on an earlier post; reads being against stacking votes early in D1 as anti-town, when in reality I think it’s the opposite. Not wanting a hasty D1 vote seems more town than scum, to me. Thank you for birthday wishes
You criticize Lyserg here for putting Ari close to a lynch, and then you post several posts later with a vote putting Ari to L-1.
My strongest scumread right now is Orcinus, so I'm going to go with that even though he's nowhere near a lynch, and will change my mind if I'm convinced Ari is scum.
I just find it odd that simply a naked vote from Ari would be enough to convince you the slot is scum. And not only that, but convince you enough to put him to L-1, something you literallyjustscrutinized Lyserg for, and Lyserg's vote was only the 3rd on Ari, whereas your's is the sixth!
UNVOTE:
Because I want to avoid a quickhammer.
And also
VOTE: LalendraGet to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 180, YYR wrote:That's quite the wagon on Ari. How much is this Ari being Ari?
Those that know Ari seem uncertain on this, but the general sentiment seems to be leaning toward Ari acting different this game.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 187, Lalendra wrote:In post 173, acryon wrote:A couple things strike me as off here.
In post 163, Lalendra wrote:Acryon – Seemed to bandwagon early with Gliffie’s anti-hydra vote on Ginko, but that could just be a reaction test (or an intense dislike of hydras). I honestly don't have much of a read on this one, even though he's posted quite a bit.
As you yourself stated, I have posted quite a bit, but the one thing you decide to look at and comment on is a joke post on the first page?
Honestly, I was going back and forth just reading through everyone’s posts and taking notes. I wasn’t sure if the hydra vote was a joke vote or not, but either way, it wasn’t enough to really influence my read on you.
That still seems like an odd thing to comment on, when there are other things I've done that are much more worthy of comments. It just seems like textbook faux-commentary.
In post 187, Lalendra wrote:In post 173, acryon wrote:Aristophanes – Thank you for birthday wishes! Typical Ari, from what I’ve seen; some general silliness, but that's not out of alignment with his meta, from what I've seen. I don't know if I'm 100% convinced he's scum, and at any rate I'm not quite convinced enough to fling a vote there. I'd hate to see a D1 no-lynch, but I'd hate a mislynch too.
You went from this to voting him just because of a naked vote? Do you think naked votes are alignment-indicative?
Naked votes strike me as something someone does when they pretty much know that they’ve been caught, and don’t have much left to counter with.
Really? Do you have examples in games to back this up? I don't think this is the case at all, and it also seems like extreme wishful thinking to believe that we caught scum so hard this early that they are just giving up.
In post 187, Lalendra wrote:In post 173, acryon wrote:Lyserg-Zeroz – Leaning scum. He was okay with putting Ari close to a lynch, saying in uncertain/vague terms that he didn’t like Ari’s response on an earlier post; reads being against stacking votes early in D1 as anti-town, when in reality I think it’s the opposite. Not wanting a hasty D1 vote seems more town than scum, to me. Thank you for birthday wishes
You criticize Lyserg here for putting Ari close to a lynch, and then you post several posts later with a vote putting Ari to L-1.
His vote was a lot earlier than mine (though my read post was posted not too long before my scumvote on Ari, the posts I was basing the reads on were much earlier in the game, and the fact that he was putting Ari close to lynch on page 2, or whatever it was, is quite different than me doing it on page 7 when things have changed quite a bit.
Well, again, putting someone to L-4 isn't exactly putting them "close to lynch."
The vote just doesn't seem natural to me, and it doesn't seem to line up with your posting. I think you're discounting the complexity of the game.
Rarely is scum caught with extreme confidence, especially this early "We got em boys!" just doesn't really happen that often in my experience. Putting too much confidence in it leading up to the lynch just causes confirmation bias to drive it the rest of the way, which is terrible for town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 204, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:
@Acryon: I remember you having a townread/feel/whatever about Orci and that you've apparently played together before, also considering your interactions with Ginko at bottom of page 6: Do you make anything out of Orci not responding to my West question, how do you read that?
Eh. We have played together before, but we also have very different playstyles. In my experience, he definitely plays a "do and say whatever I want" style, so not responding to the question doesn't strike me as necessarily scummy from him. That being said, I've never played a game where he was scum, so it's possible that's part of the way he plays it. I do think he is town though.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 213, Lalendra wrote:
No I don't have any examples, other than my own stupid plots when I knew I was caught as scum, and just trying to fuck with people was the only recourse left. Also L-4 isn't super close to lynch, but it is closer than I'd like to be only one day into a two week day, since I have a pretty cautious play style.
You have a pretty cautious play-style, yet you put Ari to L-1 with over a week left? I think there isfarmore gravity in the L-1 with over a week left than the L-4 with almost 2 weeks. Plus, we were still mostly in RVS, so the likelihood of the other 2 votes being sticky was very low.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 215, orcinus_theoriginal wrote:so im interviewing a congressman today and have a bunch of other shit i gotta get through so this is not happening
1) i didn't give my read on west while i was posting about other stuff because i don't have a read on west, a read on a player who has not stood out to me would require a bunch of meta (and people here can attest to how meta-heavy i can get)
2) i'm not the biggest fan of ari, but something about the wagon felt off and i didn't want to leave him at l-1. i think it's the fact that everyone seemed to jump on him and other lines of interest (cheet, me, etc) didn't seem to be genuinely pursued.
3) i have no clue what a lot of peopel here are saying. Lal's posts don't make sense to me and I hope that I don't have to explain why.
Also, asking for background on people who know each other IRL seemed odd to me, knowing everyone’s meta isn’t really that helpful when people can just lie about other people’s meta and their history in games together.
you are suggesting to me that when i post "hey tell me about your meta" to 8-odd people that they will all lie to me? wouldn't we just lynch the people who are lying? what?
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acryon Mafia Scum
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I just generally hate meta, because I know at least for myself, that even my townplay differs based on the game and the town I'm working with.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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I mean you don't need to feel pressured into voting there, but it was just something I expected following that post.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 235, farside22 wrote:In post 234, Lalendra wrote:honestly you saying I'm scum just based on my ari vote, with almost no reasoning to back it up, makes me feel a possible ari/farside scumteam. Or possibly werewolves, since as it was pointed out earlier there's only two of those.
I've said more then that and I'm voting ari for an actual reason.
Your reason was naked vote bs.
You meta read on ari was vague. Show how you explained the meta as you stating it was town or scum meta.
Explain mislynch then a vote on ari with one post
Explain why multiple people who know meta about each other would have anyone lie.
You know why you can't.
Because it makes no sense
Nice omgus comment.
From town to scum based on Jack fucking shit
How much of Lalendra's play do you think could be contributed to what seems to be relative unfamiliarity with at least online mafia?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 239, farside22 wrote:
I thought they came from another site that plays mafia. I recall one said something about lal always killing them.
Yeah, but not knowing OMGUS and other cues makes me think Lal is still pretty newish. Now, personally I think that parts can be attributed to that, but I still think she's scum.
Knowing she has only played one game on their site, do your feelings change?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 264, farside22 wrote:Metal: I have one vote and think both ari and lal are scum.
I don't believe they are on the same team.
I also believe this.
@Lyserg: I get where you're going with some of the points and digging you're doing, but I would caution that you seem to be putting too much emphasis on possible scum-slips. They don't actually happen that often, and I think it's going to worsen your scum-hunting effectiveness if you are focusing on the possibility of it so much. Behavioral scumminess is a far better thing to look for than slipping.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 261, prawneater wrote:I'll admit it, I'm kind of a low-content poster compared to a lot of you guys. You can check the other games I'm in and hopefully you'll see my lack of posting is not alignment indicative.
Anyways, I don't have a problem with farside and lal having votes on any specific person. They look like they're actively trying to figure out the game.
When you say things like "gut feeling" and throw out a vote, it feels like you're doing the opposite.
Hopefully I'm not being too harsh, but be more helpful to town then. You've posted essentially 3 times in 11 pages.
Your couple posts that do have content seem like they would be good for town in greater quantities, so if you want us to win you should share more
@Metal: Do you think I am going for the low-hanging fruit in going after Lal? Also, this struck me as odd:
In post 263, Metalcyanide wrote:Quick note: Just to address Lal, myself or others being biased towards friends it won't happen. In a competitive game Lal would sell me out for a nickle just to "beat" me, as for everyone else I've seen them go after each other for the smallest of things. I forget who brought it up but please don't worry about that. So onto
Lalendra: Scum, the scummiest of scum, so scummy the scrubbing bubbles can't get rid of her. Okay but seriously, she is playing a very noob or very elaborate game (damn English major). I've read her posts several times am having trouble following her train of thought. She oddly defends me from Ari by voting for Ari. Justifies the vote more by pointing to West's reasons. Lal, has anything changed for you since Ari has answered your question? Who is your next scum read. My read on lal is noob town atm
So you think that Lal would sell you out to beat you, implying you know something of her games, but then you call her noob town? This doesn't seem to line up to me. If she is a newbie, then how would you know she would sell you out just to beat you?Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 297, Ginko wrote:Acryon:
i) Do you consider yourself to be a player who has slow starts in general?
It completely depends. How easy people are to read, how active the thread is, how available I am to post, etc.
In post 297, Ginko wrote:ii) I'm pretty shrug with most of his play up until his 22nd post at which point he starts to focus really hard on Lalendra. This feels kinda inconsistent with his play prior in this game. He becomes very focused on asking Lalendra questions and making points as to why she's scummy, whereas he was kind of more disinterested in pushing for Aristophanes or asking him questions. I feel like there's a very distinct difference in playstyle being taken here and it doesn't even make much sense from a perspective of "I think that Aristophanes is less scummy than Lalendra", because his reasoning when he unvotes is that he wants to avoid a quickhammer.
Kind of gives me the impression that Ari or Lalendra might be a scummate of his [more likely Lalendra just from some other interactions] or that he might have been forcing his scumread on Aristophanes and felt uncomfortable pushing it.
I know this isn't a question to me, but I feel like I should comment on it anyway. To make it perfectly clear, I think one of Ari and Lal is scum and the other is a werewolf. Ari already had plenty of traction, so it makes way more sense for me to try and work out this Lal read, especially since we were only about halfway through the day when Ari got up to L-1. The questioning and pressure on Lal would kind of lose its power if we just let the Ari lynch go through immediately and I tried to push Lal tomorrow. Nevermind the fact that I could die and would have no chance to.
In post 297, Ginko wrote:iv)
Why is this a valuable question for you to be asking farside given your scumread on Lal? Run me through the thought process here.Acryon wrote:Knowing she has only played one game on their site, do your feelings change?
I thought this was very clear. Her lack of experience obviously made me question my scum-read on her slightly, so I asked farside (someone who I think is town) what it did to her read of Lal.
Getting a second opinion from someone who I think is very likely town helps me sort of my read. This seems like pretty standard play, so it's odd to me that this strikes you as off.
In post 315, prawneater wrote:Acryon posts quite a lot, but unlike the other townie posters, his posts don't feel like they're actively hunting for scum. They feel more like "I'll comment on this here", "I'll respond here".
@orcinus/acryon/metalcyanide would you mind posting your town/scum lists?
This is a little weird because I feel like I was the primary person pushing and outing Lal.
Here is the lsit from Town to scum:
Farside
Orc
YYR
Prawn
Ginko
Metal
West
Vyse
Lyserg
Ari
Lal
Farside and Orc are both quite a bit stronger town-reads than the rest, and Ari and Lal are both quite a bit stronger scum-reads than the rest.
Someone asked what I thought of metal. I'm pretty torn on him. I think there is a pretty close to equal chance that he is scum vs town saying some silly things, although if I had to pick I would say town.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 288, VysePresident wrote:--I'll analyze the Lalandra case & wagon in the morning. I'm literally falling asleep at my computer right now.
Can we get a follow up here?
Also interested to see what Ginko makes of it. It's shocking to me that people haven't commented on it directly, as it's pretty hot.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 324, Ginko wrote:
It's a rather dense case. I think I have somewhere around like an entire page of point form notes that I need to sift through for it? q.qacryon wrote:Also interested to see what Ginko makes of it. It's shocking to me that people haven't commented on it directly, as it's pretty hot.
Right, which is why it's even more curious that people would avoid it.
In post 324, Ginko wrote:@Acryon, weh. Young and prawn are your #3 and #4 slots for town? Why? Young's only made a naked vote and then disappeared and you literally just said this about prawn:
If he's weird, why is he so far up your list?Acryon wrote:This is a little weird because I feel like I was the primary person pushing and outing Lal.
'Splain that shit pls.
I already indicated that there was a large gap between 1 and 2 and the rest. Prawn just doesn't feel scummy to me. Same with YYR. What little they've brought forth doesn't ping me. Just because someone reads something wrong, it doesn't mean they're scum. I still think it's weird, but that doesn't mean I think he is scum.
In post 324, Ginko wrote:Also, I just don't like the difference in pushing for Lal/Ari while voting for them and not because of you switching or anything like that. Your questioning/push of Aristophanes was weak, while your push/questioning for Lal is much stronger.
I've said this already, but my play is different based on the circumstance. Ari had multiple other people pushing, so I didn't need to necessarily add my noise, because others were saying it already. Lal needed someone to push her on her stuff, so I stepped in and did that.
In post 324, Ginko wrote:
I think your question stood out to me because it looked like you were trying to softpush farside into thinking Lal is town, which just seemed really strange. Makes a little more sense now with your townread on farside.Acryon wrote:I thought this was very clear. Her lack of experience obviously made me question my scum-read on her slightly, so I asked farside (someone who I think is town) what it did to her read of Lal.
Getting a second opinion from someone who I think is very likely town helps me sort of my read. This seems like pretty standard play, so it's odd to me that this strikes you as off.
Oh, not at all. I think Lal is almost definitely scum. Hence why my vote hasn't moved.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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Because he's continuing to try to catch people on scum-slips. So either he is playing a bad town-game, or he is scum trying to catch people using cheap tactics. I'm not sure of which yet, but he certainly doesn't get town-points from me for the moment. To be clear, Ari and Lal are the only people I have reasonable confidence in being scum. The others, Lyserg included, are simply people who I could very plausibly see as being scum.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 334, YYR wrote:Acryon, would you say that you make an effort to talk in a non-offensive manner?
Yes. I tend to play something of a devil's advocate role as town, and with that tends to come a (probably too) peaceable approach.
Also, someone has brought it up already, but I severely question my placement on that readlist, and likewise, is Lyserg's looking for scumslips the only reason you have him so low? Nothing in your ISO would suggest to me that Lyserg would be so low. I don't know if I find the list odd because it's so radically different from my own reads or if the list just seems thrown together at random.
It's funny that you mention it being thrown together at random, because I've had it put together for a couple days on a spreadsheet (obviously you have no way to know whether this is true or not, but I just thought it was funny that you would say that). My list is ranked in terms oflikelihoodof being scum at this point. Why would I think someone with almost no content is scummier than someone that could be trying to point out faux-scum-slips? I don't see that high of likelihood of you being scum right now. That may change when you post more. And it's not even that I think Lyserg is scum at the moment. I just think their is a greater likelihood of him flipping scum than the others above him on the list.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 343, prawneater wrote:
I don't particularly care for 4 dudes on Lalendra: acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR
I don't particularly care for 2 dudes on Arisophanes: Metalcyanide, Lalendra
I'd be pretty happy with lynching one of acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR
So you don't care for 6 different people, fullyhalfof the players, and you would be happy lynching one of 4 people, fully one third of the players. Why don't you make a stance and pick 2 that you feel are the worst, because saying you would be ok lynching a third of the player base means absolutely nothing.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 347, Ginko wrote:Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.
-Cheetory
Distrusting 6 people is one thing, but saying you would be ok lynching any of 4 people is a completely different thing. There is a world of difference between general suspicion and willingness to lynch.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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There is a great scum-incentive to put out a large group of people you distrust, because it makes setting up future mislynches a lot easier. And they don't have any real skin in the game, because someone pushing one person that flips town looks a lot worse than someone pushing one of their four possibles that flips town.
I don't necessarily think he's scum, but putting out a list like that means nothing.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 351, prawneater wrote:In post 347, Ginko wrote:Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.
-Cheetory
I can get behind this.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Acryon
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In post 353, prawneater wrote:I'm fine with lynching people I don't read as town. As for my top 2 scum, it'd be you and metal.
But do you understand how listing off 4 people you would be ok to lynch is bad? It 1) absolves you from blame, because you have less skin in the game than a person doing a push with only one scum read, and 2) allows you to be manipulated by scum a lot easier, because they can just lead you to killing whichever of the four is most beneficial to them.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 362, VysePresident wrote:In post 326, acryon wrote:
Oh, not at all. I think Lal is almost definitely scum. Hence why my vote hasn't moved.
Why? I'm not seeing it.
I pointed out a couple posts in my thoughts on you. Could you elaborate on your thoughts process here? (173, 207, 214)
Why is this scummy, and not just Newbish mistakes?
I mean my thought process seems like it was pretty straight-forward, no? These aren't newbie mistakes; they are pretty blatant contradictions. One of her primary criticisms of Lyserg was that he put Ari close to a lynch (he didn't), and she put Ari to L-1. So the reasons for suspecting people are BS, which also makes sense why she chose to comment on my joke post but nothing else. The move to voting Ari was unnatural.
In post 363, VysePresident wrote:In post 347, Ginko wrote:Acryon is scum who doesn't understand how someone can distrust 6 people because he's only hunting for a selection of the scum in this game.
Lalendra case is full of a lot of 'Lalendra is being weird' points and her doing things that people don't understand.
Someone make striking points that I can relate to on Lalendra or you should get on board this sexier wagon.
-Cheetory
I think it's more likely that he's just pushing on a perceived weakness. Otherwise, I'm in agreement.
I also like points iii) & iv) in 297.
How is it exactly that I'm playing purely reactionary again? Given I was the person who first started the push on Lal. And iv is also terrible and I've explained why. You can try to find reasons to call me scum, but these aren't even close to being legitimate.
In post 360, VysePresident wrote:Basically, Acryon feels like a relatively level-headed Scum player who's more focused on getting a lynch than sorting through the game.
I mean we have one day left and no lynching is pretty bad. And certainly getting lynches is a big part of sorting the game out. You lynch the people you think are scum/wolves and rinse and repeat until you win.
In post 356, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:Btw @Acryon: Why are Vyse and West also that low? I would've expected Metal to be like in third position based on your earlier comments of him when I asked about your other scumsuspects and that your ISO gives me no indication of you feeling better about him since then, nor of him being townier than West, who you said seemed town that time.
I certainly haven't been verbalizing every bit of internal dialogue concerning every player, so when I make a list of every player and how I feel about them, it shouldn't be a shock that you may not find something in my ISO to explain that. 276 from Metal read town to me, hence why I didn't have a follow up to him after my first question. Some of the comments from Vyse in posts like 288 felt like genuine scum-hunting to me, even if they involved me. Town are allowed to be wrongGet to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 368, Ginko wrote:acryon wrote:Distrusting 6 people is one thing
Point isn't that you were trying to push a scumread on him or anything, but that the way you approached responding to him on this felt exasperated as though he was being ridiculous for not caring for that many people. Mindset there reads hard as someone who's hunting for an ordinary number of scum.acryon wrote:So you don't care for 6 different people, fully half of the players
I do think it's ridiculous to call out 6 players as being people you don't trust. It just doesn't mean anything when you say you distrust half the player base. It's not useful to town at all and it makes it look like you don't want to take a real stance. Obviously you may think internally that any of 6 people may be scum, but the point is that stating it to the town is completely useless for town, and the only person it is good for would be the person saying it if they are scum.
In post 368, Ginko wrote:
i) The hypocritical point strikes me more as bad play than anything.acryon wrote:One of her primary criticisms of Lyserg was that he put Ari close to a lynch (he didn't), and she put Ari to L-1. So the reasons for suspecting people are BS, which also makes sense why she chose to comment on my joke post but nothing else. The move to voting Ari was unnatural.
ii) How is her vote for Ari unnatural?
She says this like two posts before her vote in her ISO:
Lalendra wrote:My strongest scumread right now is Orcinus, so I'm going to go with that even though he's nowhere near a lynch, and will change my mind if I'm convinced Ari is scum.
-Cheet
I already laid out my reasoning, but I'll do it again to hopefully get you off of this silliness. She went from that post that you quoted, which I also pointed out, to voting Ari just because of a naked vote. It just seems very off to go from "Player X is my strongest scum-read, but might change my mind if I'm convinced Y is scum." Then Y naked votes, and that convinces you? How is that not unnatural? Naked votes are probably a null, and even if you were to say they were generally scummy, they certainly aren't even close to a tipping point from null-scum to scum.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 370, Ginko wrote:Do you think that everyone thinks that naked votes are null? Also, she doesn't just say it's the naked vote, as she also points to finding West's points more convincing after reading them again.
No, which is why I noted it as such that some would say it's scummy, but even then it still just isn't the tipping point; I don't think anyone things it's scummy enough to be that. To me, it felt more like she saw farside's post saying she felt Lal was scummy, and this caused Lal to quickly move forward with the Ari wagon rather than screw around with another direction. Which would also explain the contradiction in her play here vs what she chastised Lyserg for.
In post 370, Ginko wrote:
I hate that I somewhat like this response.acryon wrote:I do think it's ridiculous to call out 6 players as being people you don't trust. It just doesn't mean anything when you say you distrust half the player base. It's not useful to town at all and it makes it look like you don't want to take a real stance. Obviously you may think internally that any of 6 people may be scum, but the point is that stating it to the town is completely useless for town, and the only person it is good for would be the person saying it if they are scum.
Zzzzzz.
-Cheetory6
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In post 375, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:
@Acryon: I sorta thought you'd see my confusion and help me understand your "scumslips" read on me that I don't get at all :C, so Imma just ask now: What do you mean with that, yo? And...
Posts like 40 and 256 have examples of this, but it's a general focus on questioning people'swordingrather than their intentions.
In post 375, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:
you just gave reasoning for a townVyse 0.0(?), but wasn't he on the scum side of your readslist?Some of the comments from Vyse in posts like 288 felt like genuine scum-hunting to me, even if they involved me
That was me misreading the question from Ginko. I misread it as why Vyse was that low on the scum-list as in less scummy, so I gave reasons why he was less likely to be scum than the others.
In post 375, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:Also, yep, talk about West's placement too. Your initial townlean on him didn't seem strong (124) but that he is below people like Prawn or YYR (whose placement on the readslist seems to be just because nothings seems scummy to you of what little they've posted) still caught my attention.
West's position on the list has to do with an admittedly premature associative tell. In determining my list, I put together what I thought were likely scum and werewolf teams. At the time, I thought West seemed like he could be on a team with Lalendra. But keep in mind this is a very weak read. Every person needed to be placed, but it doesn't mean their positions on the list are staggered equally, as I indicated in my initial post.
In post 375, Lyserg-Zeroz wrote:On another note, the apparent hypocrisy of Lal's suspicion on me isn't what bothered me there: (still @Acryon) Don't you think the context of those votes were different enough that the "contradiction" isn't as brash as you are making it out to be?
No, the context wasn't different enough. As I said in 208, if your point is that it was too early to put someone close to lynch when someone puts another to L-4 with less than 2 weeks left, then putting someone to L-1 with still a week left is definitely bad. In short, the difference in time is not enough to outweigh the difference in number of votes on the wagon.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 396, VysePresident wrote:
Acryon is passing decent in a few individual post, but by and large, I'm noting his scumhunting consists of taking an accusatory tone towards glaring mistakes, rather than building off a natural thought process. Even accounting for the possibility that I'm just missing said thought process, I'm not seeing much in the way of him sorting Lal out, either. (Or Ari, actually.) It feels like he's looking for an opening, rather than sorting out Town/Scum.
I guess I just don't get this. I was also the first person to mention Lal's behavior potentially being related to unfamiliarity with online mafia.
I have played in a number of games recently where someone quickhammered, so it's something I'm a little more careful about now. Especially with someone that has so much momentum already.
In post 393, VysePresident wrote:
it doesn't seem like an inherently scummy one to me. At the moment, it feels more like her thought process is disorganized and slightly reactionary.
Not sure what else to say to you on this. I think disorganized and slightly reactionary could be ways to describe pieces of her play, but not the part where she voted Ari to L-1 after criticizing someone else for putting Ari to L-4. I think that Ari and Lal are, by far, the scummiest players right now. At the moment, I feel like it's more likely Lal flips scum of the two.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 405, Ginko wrote:ii) There's a huge difference between forgetting that you're scumreading someone to the point where you give townpoints to them and putting someone in null instead of town in your readlist. Plus, this other point about changing reads is lammeeeeeee. Acryon's read didn't change. He forgot it. Yeah, prawn's reads changed, but there's a huge difference between completely forgetting your read on someone and having it change and not explain why. Acryon is super fucking invested in comparison to both of the examples you're pushing here and there's also the fact that he went out of his way to give townreasons for Vyse and then said nothing about West.
-Cheetory6
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In post 407, Ginko wrote:I'm not really sure I understand your point.
I don't think you intentionally flipped your read on Vyse or ignored West?
The former point reads as scum poorly keeping track of their reads and the latter just reads as weird. Do you want me to insert speculation into why I think the latter could be coming from scumPOV? Because I have thoughts, they're just really paranoid and just stopping at weird makes me sound less like I'm crazy than when I elaborate on my entire thoughts on every action people have q.q
I mean this is sort of what I'm asking. Do you really think it's more likely the former than the latter?
In post 407, Ginko wrote:
I was reading back and thought for a second that I'd found something super scummy in this interaction involving timestamps but I feel like I just got caught up in nothing.acryon wrote:No, which is why I noted it as such that some would say it's scummy, but even then it still just isn't the tipping point; I don't think anyone things it's scummy enough to be that. To me, it felt more like she saw farside's post saying she felt Lal was scummy, and this caused Lal to quickly move forward with the Ari wagon rather than screw around with another direction. Which would also explain the contradiction in her play here vs what she chastised Lyserg for.
^Does the following explanation not seem plausible to you? She does respond to farside in a second post. [initially had thought that the timing between 171 and 172 was too close for her to have not read farside's post and then make a response, but it feels super subjective after thinking about it so meh]Lalendra wrote:I voted for Ari in vote 171 and didn’t address farside’s points until 172. Those were two separate posts because I was on my phone, catching up on a lot and posting as I read, not easy to do multiquotes and such that way. Chronologically my vote for Ari came before I even read farside's post.
-Cheet
Of course it seems plausible or I don't think she wouldn't have said it, but I don't believe that it's true.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 409, Ginko wrote:
Okay.. so is there a better point I should be following on the Lalendra wagon? Or can you give me something that should convince me that it's not true?acryon wrote:Of course it seems plausible or I don't think she wouldn't have said it, but I don't believe that it's true.
I think my scenario is more likely. It's weird to me that youwouldjust take it at face value.
In post 409, Ginko wrote:
I was saying that I believe the flipflop on the read seems like a scum-mistake moreso than a town-mistake and that the lack of mention of West was moreso weird than blatantly scummy and I don't really understand.acryon wrote:I mean this is sort of what I'm asking. Do you really think it's more likely the former than the latter?
Trying to piece together you and West as a scumteam didn't really make much sense to me because I didn't think West would just outright dismiss my case on you if you're scummates and the other thought of you and Vyse being scum also didn't really make much sense given how you guys are interacting.
For the flipflop it just makes more sense to me that someone who's scum and has a few real scumreads/a few exaggerated scumreads would be more likely to forget who their lesser scumreads are because they're forced.
I think town make mistakes and confuse things far more often than scum. I thought that was a pretty accepted though, which is why hunting for scum-slips is so bad.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 409, Ginko wrote:
Okay.. so is there a better point I should be following on the Lalendra wagon? Or can you give me something that should convince me that it's not true?acryon wrote:Of course it seems plausible or I don't think she wouldn't have said it, but I don't believe that it's true.
I was saying that I believe the flipflop on the read seems like a scum-mistake moreso than a town-mistake and that the lack of mention of West was moreso weird than blatantly scummy and I don't really understand.acryon wrote:I mean this is sort of what I'm asking. Do you really think it's more likely the former than the latter?
Trying to piece together you and West as a scumteam didn't really make much sense to me because I didn't think West would just outright dismiss my case on you if you're scummates and the other thought of you and Vyse being scum also didn't really make much sense given how you guys are interacting.
For the flipflop it just makes more sense to me that someone who's scum and has a few real scumreads/a few exaggerated scumreads would be more likely to forget who their lesser scumreads are because they're forced.
As much as I hate meta, if you are really concerned about it, maybe it will make you feel better to look at the Nightless Vengeful Mayhem game in my wiki where I did something very similar which looked like flip-flopping, and scum succeeded in getting me lynched for it. "Slips" and mistakes are far more useful for scum as a method of convincing sheep than they are for town in actual scum-hunting. Obviously this is self-serving, but I've stated this in other games as well.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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In post 414, Ginko wrote:
I'm not taking it at face value. Like, it's more likely to be scum-motivated than town-motivated, I'll give you that, but I'm just not seeing the hardcore lynchlust people are having for Lalendra, because the case on her reads as a bunch of little points adding up to an okay case.acryon wrote:I think my scenario is more likely. It's weird to me that you would just take it at face value.
For me the lynchlust is just wanted to lynch someone I think is scum, which is Lal or Ari. I don't know that I would describe that as lynchlust, but someone needs to get lynched.
It's less that it's a mistake and more that it's the second time you've done something that strikes me as forcing a scumread on someone. I would have been much more inclined to believe your read on Vyse had just changed from Point A to Point B, but it strikes me as super off that you just say that you more or less just forgot that he was leaning scum. Like, it just reads to me like you don't want people to think that the read itself was fake, but that you were earnestly reading Vyse's interactions as being town. Given that acryon wagon is becoming less likely of a thing I'll make it homework to read game you linked.acryon wrote:I think town make mistakes and confuse things far more often than scum. I thought that was a pretty accepted though, which is why hunting for scum-slips is so bad.
I never said I forgot he was leaning scum. He was near the middle of the pack on my list, which is of course going to be a bit more nebulous than those on the outer ends, and then I answered the question the way I did because I misread it. I did screw up in misreading it, but I didn't screw up in forgetting what I thought about him in general. Maybe it will make more sense if we remove the details like this. I say "X is a 2 on the scum scale and Y is a 4 on the scum scale, 10 being the highest." You say "Why is X lower than Y" and I give the answer I do, for why Y might be less likely to be scum than Y. A 2 on the scum scale is higher than a 1 on the scum scale, but neither are anywhere near a 10.
For the record, I get why you're on this, but you shouldn't be.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 417, Ginko wrote:
I'm saying that it seems like you forgot because you didn't prod back at Lyserg being like "why are you asking me for reasons I'm townreading someone I'm leaning scum on?"acryon wrote:I never said I forgot he was leaning scum. He was near the middle of the pack on my list, which is of course going to be a bit more nebulous than those on the outer ends, and then I answered the question the way I did because I misread it. I did screw up in misreading it, but I didn't screw up in forgetting what I thought about him in general. Maybe it will make more sense if we remove the details like this. I say "X is a 2 on the scum scale and Y is a 4 on the scum scale, 10 being the highest." You say "Why is X lower than Y" and I give the answer I do, for why Y might be less likely to be scum than Y. A 2 on the scum scale is higher than a 1 on the scum scale, but neither are anywhere near a 10.
I didn't read it as "why are you townreading this person you are scumreading?" I read it as "why are you scumreading this person less than these other people?"Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 420, Metalcyanide wrote:End of D1 is 3:00 EST, right?
Looks like it's in 7 hours, so about 8:30 EST.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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acryon Mafia Scum
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In post 424, Metalcyanide wrote:I'm not sure what time zone Honey Bee is posting from though.
It's a countdown.Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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And you should have waited for a claim prawn :\Get to know me! | Unavailable on nights and weekends.-
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acryon Mafia Scum
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