Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

hey acryon i've played with you before

tell me that i'm not going crazy and that there is actually a clear contradiction in
1) cheetory first expresses explicit knowledge of what i mean when i said "cheet is baiting ari"
2) cheetory then says he doesn't know what i'm talking about

and that the point is actually flying right over lyserg and ari's head, as opposed to say me being batshit insane

[acryon]

hey acryon i've played with you before

tell me that i'm not going crazy and that there is actually a clear contradiction in
1) cheetory first expresses explicit knowledge of what i mean when i said "cheet is baiting ari"
2) cheetory then says he doesn't know what i'm talking about

and that the point is actually flying right over lyserg and ari's head, as opposed to say me being batshit insane

I'm not sure that there is a clear contradiction, because I'm unsure what he meant by the "I'll come back to you on this." It's sort of weird to dodge it the first time like that, but I would need to know what the purpose of that comment was.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

yeah but

we're all going to give cheet the space he wants to do whatever it is he wants to do

he said "i'll come back to you on this" meaning he knows what the 'this' is.

In fact, cheet says right here that he was just tired, and claims to have forgotten what i was talking about.

I was tired this morning, hungover and looking over four games of mafia. Pitch the scum-motivation in pretending that I didn't know what you were talking about when I literally asked you to point it out to me. Why would I fake that? What would the point be?

so it was a contradiction.

first he said that he'd come back to me which is an implicit acknowledgement of what i was talking about
then he said that he didn't know what i was talking about

the second statement is therefore a lie

[acryon]

yeah but

we're all going to give cheet the space he wants to do whatever it is he wants to do

he said "i'll come back to you on this" meaning he knows what the 'this' is.

In fact, cheet says right here that he was just tired, and claims to have forgotten what i was talking about.

I was tired this morning, hungover and looking over four games of mafia. Pitch the scum-motivation in pretending that I didn't know what you were talking about when I literally asked you to point it out to me. Why would I fake that? What would the point be?

so it was a contradiction.

first he said that he'd come back to me which is an implicit acknowledgement of what i was talking about
then he said that he didn't know what i was talking about

the second statement is therefore a lie

I don't think it's as clear-cut as you are saying it is here. I

do

think the "I'll come back to you on this," seems to imply he had something to say about it beyond "I don't know what you're talking about." Because if that was the case, why wouldn't he just say it there? I think it is more him being odd than him lying, although both are worth looking at.

[Gliffie]

@mod:

Sorry, this just isn't working out for me. I'm gonna have to sub out. I hope I can play with you guys again when I have more time to spare.

[Ginko]

Quick post.
Second bet was that I thought Ari was going to unvote orci once he started being more explicit with his intentions. My thought was that townAri is pretty likely to go after bad/confusing play and once he realized orci's intentions he would be less likely to be on his case over that. Him being less predictable makes me less certain on him.

first he said that he'd come back to me which is an implicit acknowledgement of what i was talking about
then he said that he didn't know what i was talking about

I acknowledged that I would come back to my intentions of saying what I thought about Ari afterwards. If I was explicit about how I was leaning town on him because his play was striking me as his regular MO, he would have reacted accordingly and it would have been useless. In my head I was thinking "I will come back to what I think about Ari", not "I need to clear up why orci thinks I'm being opportunistic". Please pitch why I would intentionally lie about that and not just have made a fuck up while coming back to the game from other things?

I'm gonna talk to Johnny about Ari/other things tonight when I get a chance.

If I missed something please bold my name so I can see it if I need to skim.

-Cheetory6

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Please pitch why I would intentionally lie about that and not just have made a fuck up while coming back to the game from other things?

i need you to clarify more on how this fuckup happened

because from my POV it's pretty hard to forget why i said you were baiting ari and i'm not quite sure what your thought process was

[orcinus_theoriginal]

for the record my version of the events is you fucked up coming back to the game from other things, and that you were trying to lie / deflect my question

[Metalcyanide]

Okay, so I guess I should actually partake of this game a bit more than I have been, so here are my thoughts on everyone that I have actually formed an opinion on thus far (if a person isn't listed I haven't gotten a good read on them):
acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.
Aristophanes: As others have pointed out Ari has just seemed scummy. From playing with him I don't ever recall him being as sloppy with his posts as he has been (who does he think he is me lol).
farstefan - Has this person posted yet? Are they being replaced
Ginko - So far Cheet being Cheet. I really need to learn how to read him better.
Lalendra - Needs to participate. Your 30th birthday was 3 days ago now come on old lady lets go (I'm so dead IRL)

To address some things that were addressed towards me:
I removed my vote from orcinus because I no longer needed the "pressure vote" (as someone called it) and 63 gave me an answer I was looking for why he was just throwing around the random votes
Orcinus you said I'm "self-concerned and not legitimately curious". I am self concerned, I'm not sure who to trust yet and I don't want to be lynched so I can keep playing. I am curious about things but I know the questions to ask, I'm not very good with my wording.
And the reason why I was waiting so long to really post is because I was waiting for some of the people who haven't posted or at least significantly posted to post on the current events, but to keep things moving here you go

So my biggest Scum read is Ari
Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.
VOTE: Aristophanes

Feel free to ask me anything I missed.

[West9]

I'm not sure who to trust yet and I don't want to be lynched so I can keep playing.

How are these two ideas related? How does being careful who you trust lead to you surviving?

@West: Can you give me your thoughts on Orcinus, and maybe answer these questions: Who's your second scumsuspect (alternatively: Is there anyone you'd be OK with lynching if not your current vote?), do you have any townread?

Metal. I think a Ari/Metal scumteam is possible.
Orc seems sincere in his pursuing of the Ginko contradiction point. I like that and want to see that whole conversation continue.
Also, you don't really remind me of scumLyserg. It seems like your more interested in the answers to your questions than normal, if that makes any sense.

[Lyserg-Zeroz]

I said it because the first time I followed him I said I was sheeping him, and was joking. Wanted it to be clear that I was not.

Clear that it wasn't a joke? I mean, the tone and context is completely different from that of your RVS vote anyways, but whatevs. The person you sheeped was totes Gliffie and not Orc, but main point of what you said stays the same I suppose (and yeh, I can be fairly nitpicky at times P=, thou except for maybe my first two posts I'm not sure which of my stuff could feel super nitpicky to you... eh, if you feel like some of those are suspicious you should like, engage me more in conversation about it or something...).

@Orcinus: Please answer question about your thoughts on West.

@mod:

Sorry, this just isn't working out for me. I'm gonna have to sub out. I hope I can play with you guys again when I have more time to spare.

Bye Gliffie :C

I was going to say something about how the Johnny side of Ginko feels terribly absent but then I thought that maybe there was a reason they are playing as hydra in the first place... Johnny is cool thou, he should totes post more C:

@Metal:

acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.

Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.

Can you expand on your first quote? While I can understand feeling like a couple of players are possible allies, I'm not sure I get how this can also apply to townies on a game without masons or anything like that. Associative read aside, why is Acryon a town-read to you in the first place?

Can you tell me exactly which of Ari's posts or points are sloppy to you?
(also, super belated happy birthday to Lalendra xP).

I'm all sleepy and Ari isn't back yet...
@West again: (context for others: Ari was part of a hydra (Ladd), we were both town, I got really mad at him for, among other things, seeming to take an RVS too literally and then making dumb points about it [love ya Ari C: ], long story short, I tunneled on him during D1 and still pursued his lynch many times up to D4 where he finally got mislynched) Ari's reactions to RVS and being all silly about that reminds me of my interactions with Ladd (Ari-head) early D1 that one game and I can't help but be reminded of that situation when I see your interactions with him. What's your take on the possibility of your issues with him and his reactions to RVS being a similar case of just weird town-Ari. (P-EDIT I got distracted ISOing and stuff only to realise there was a new post in your ISO, I wanted to sleep already ;-;. I ISO'd myself and can see that making sense at least from some of my attitudes in my last post... tbh I've been feeling a bit different from my usual self, maybe it was just my imagination or something subtle enough that only I felt it...)

[Metalcyanide]

I'm not sure who to trust yet and I don't want to be lynched so I can keep playing.

How are these two ideas related? How does being careful who you trust lead to you surviving?

How does being careful not lead to surviving longer? I don't want to be voting off town because I sided with mafia or warewolf. And if I do that people will vote for me. At least that makes sense to me.

[Metalcyanide]

@Metal:

acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.

Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.

Can you expand on your first quote? While I can understand feeling like a couple of players are possible allies, I'm not sure I get how this can also apply to townies on a game without masons or anything like that. Associative read aside, why is Acryon a town-read to you in the first place?

My town read on Acryon comes more after he and Orc were going back and forth during post 125-127. He had just said prior that he had a town read on Orc but was still mostly disagreeing with someone he has cleared for at least D1.
Acryon and Orc being teammates is from their interactions, they were getting some good discussion from each other instead of the typical accusation and defensive statements I've usually seen.

Can you tell me exactly which of Ari's posts or points are sloppy to you?

Ari seems to be joking around more, his posts just don't read right to me. Sorry I know that's not super helpful but I'm going off the way I'm reading it and it's hard to explain.

[acryon]

I said it because the first time I followed him I said I was sheeping him, and was joking. Wanted it to be clear that I was not.

Clear that it wasn't a joke? I mean, the tone and context is completely different from that of your RVS vote anyways, but whatevs. The person you sheeped was totes Gliffie and not Orc, but main point of what you said stays the same I suppose (and yeh, I can be fairly nitpicky at times P=, thou except for maybe my first two posts I'm not sure which of my stuff could feel super nitpicky to you... eh, if you feel like some of those are suspicious you should like, engage me more in conversation about it or something...).

Yeah, nitpicky probably wasn't the right word. That's why I added the extra note, because nitpicky is too negative a word for what I was trying to express.

[VysePresident]

@Ginko - Could I get a quick overview of your reads, particularly on the non-MS people you've played with before?

[VysePresident]

Acryon seems like he's gotten kinda defensive. He also hasn't really done much contributing as of yet. Acryon, other than thinking my tone to be funny, what are your thoughts on the players here? Ginko and Lyserg have said stuff, why not look into them a bit?

This is quite weird to me. For one, I didn’t think I was being defensive at all, but given someone else also mentioned that, I guess I’ll accept that it looked like I was.
Why did you ask me to look specifically into Ginko and Lyserg? Other people said things, and people like Orc said quite a bit, but for some reason you mentioned those two specifically.
And then you say:

Ginko and Lyserg are alright in my books thus far.

Why do you want me to specifically look at the two people you think are fine? This isn’t normal town behavior in my experience. If you were to ask me to look into someone, normally it would make sense for it to be someone you suspected.
VOTE: Aristophanes

Why did this merit a vote?

[VysePresident]

Just as a disclaimer, this is going to be a quick, tired semi-stream of conscious post, since I can't seem to get on here at a reasonable time. I'll try to clarify anything that gets lost in translation tomorrow.

So, I'm finding the pace of the game interesting, particularly on reread. There's been a fair bit of talking from a few people, but I'm noting that a lot of it is in the form of the odd read here and there, and an occasional vote. What I'm not seeing is much in the way of a narrative forming, or any sense that we're being moved along, and it makes me feel like scum are playing hesitantly, by and large. (or are MIA)

At the moment, I'm relatively okay with Lyserg & Metal, and Orcinus & West seem decent as well. I've liked the way they're interacting so far: Lyserg feels like he's genuinely sorting through the game, Metal leans Town for playing Anti-scum, Orcinus is harder for me to gauge but I'm okay with him so far, and West's posts feel more like he's just stating his reads than creating a narrative, for lack of a better term.

Acryon & Ginko are bugging me a little at present, but I'm going to hold off on this until I've had a chance to sleep & gauge responses from them. I also really want to hear from Prawn & Lalandra, along with whoever replaces farstefen & Gliffe. (Sorry to see you go. )

I'm still not thrilled with Ari. His early posts bugged me because he seemed to be more inclined to banter than engage, and more importantly, when he did engage, it seemed more directed at creating suspicion than sorting through the game. That said, I'm not sure he's my first choice anymore.

Catch you guys tomorrow, with any luck at all.

[acryon]

Acryon seems like he's gotten kinda defensive. He also hasn't really done much contributing as of yet. Acryon, other than thinking my tone to be funny, what are your thoughts on the players here? Ginko and Lyserg have said stuff, why not look into them a bit?

This is quite weird to me. For one, I didn’t think I was being defensive at all, but given someone else also mentioned that, I guess I’ll accept that it looked like I was.
Why did you ask me to look specifically into Ginko and Lyserg? Other people said things, and people like Orc said quite a bit, but for some reason you mentioned those two specifically.
And then you say:

Ginko and Lyserg are alright in my books thus far.

Why do you want me to specifically look at the two people you think are fine? This isn’t normal town behavior in my experience. If you were to ask me to look into someone, normally it would make sense for it to be someone you suspected.
VOTE: Aristophanes

Why did this merit a vote?

Why wouldn't it merit a vote? Votes exist for more than to just show a desire to lynch.

[Honey bee]

Vote count 1.03

Aristophanes(5):

West9, VysePresident, orcinus_theoriginal, acryon, Metalcyanide

West9(2):

Lyserg-Zeroz, Ginko

Ginko(1):

Gliffie

orcinus_theoriginal (1):

Aristophanes

VystePresident(1):

prawneater

Not voting: farstefan, Lalendra

With 12 alive It takes 7 to lynch. Day ends in: (expired on 2015-01-22 22:14:00)

*Replacing Gliffe as per request. Prodding prawneater & Lalendra*

[Ginko]

@Ari

, how much do you remember from our hangout before New Years a little while ago?

[Ginko]

Double post for signature. Last post was me.

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[acryon]

@Ari

, how much do you remember from our hangout before New Years a little while ago?

I think Vyse asked you a question.

[Ginko]

I think I'm working on a bigger post and wanted to ask that first.

-Cheetory6

[acryon]

I think I'm working on a bigger post and wanted to ask that first.

-Cheetory6

Whether you intended it or not, making a seemingly fluff-post when you have standing questions makes it look like you're dodging.

[acryon]

Just trying to keep you accountable