Pikmin Mafia - Game over

[Kison]

/confirm .

[Kison]

Vote : Greasy Spot

[Kison]

Unvote

Vote : Shin Hatsubai

[Kison]

I think GhostWriter's post makes it pretty clear that not everyone is a Pikman.

I'm voting Shin Hatsubai for role fishing. That kind of info is only beneficial to scum at this point.

[Kison]

Also, Shin did something that's not exactly an uncommon tactic. I don't really LIKE it, but fishing to draw an obvious fakeclaim is not so much a scum tell as a rather stupid, risky move.

In this situation and at this point especially, having GS claim a role/pikman type can only be detrimental considering the fact Greasy Spot himself quoted three possible Pikman varieties. He's not going to trip up when he already knows what to expect in the game.

HAHA...Don't get your panties in a bunch just yet. You pikmins are way too uptight. No wonder mod called you stupid.

No I'm a pikmin alright, just not a stupid pikmin like the mod called you all.

Explain the contradiction I'm seeing here, please.

[Kison]

The contradiction I'm seeing is that in the first post, you imply that you're

not

a Pikmin whereas in the second one, you state that you

are

a Pikmin. So my question is : Why did you imply you were not something that you later stated you were?

[Kison]

The moderator implied that all the Pikmin are stupid.

"You Pikmin are too uptight."

Implies you are not included in this statement, which therefore implies you aren't a Pikmin.

"No wonder the moderator called

you

stupid."

Implies you are not stupid, despite the moderator stating that Pikmin in general are stupid.

So... What's going on here mate?!

[Kison]

First of all, I'm not even voting the guy. I know that "You people" or, in this case, "You Pikmin" could be interpreted as an address to a specific group of Pikmin/People - but it's also

possible

he meant it in a way someone would say, "You Americans are idiots" where he is

not

one of the whole, and scrambled to cover his tracks with people demanding an explanation. But that is beyond hoping for now that you guys basically gave him the out card.

That was my point... shouldn't we have something more concrete to use instead of just a random lynching?

What makes you think Greasy Spot was about to be lynched?

[Kison]

Saying "you pikmin" does imply the speaker (writer) is not a pikmin, most notably with the additional line of "no wonder he called you stupid". It may be a grammar point, but that's how I see it. However, I believe this makes the speaker more pro-town in this case, because scum would not allow anything like this to slip this early.

We just had this debate in another game, and again I am going to point to another game I

just

finished where this very same thing

did

happen to scum.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 699#927699

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 654#969654

So yes, slips do happen to scum(and in that case, a player who's been around for a while). I'm actually less inclined to believe it's a slip, as I can see GS's post being interpreted both ways. But it was a decent thing to try to pressure him on.

I think GhostWriter's post makes it pretty clear that not everyone is a Pikman.

I'm voting Shin Hatsubai for role fishing. That kind of info is only beneficial to scum at this point.

Pushing a bandwagon with, imo, bad logic.

Where's the flaw in the logic, aside from my misattribution of Shin's behavior as role-fishing when it was, in fact, more blatant than that?

[Kison]

Where'd I say I was certain he was scum?

[Kison]

In any event, JDodge, it's like I said : That statement

can

be interpreted both ways. The entire point of what I did last page was to pressure him in the event that he did in fact make a slip. Whether or not you think my retractment is being "proven wrong" and hiding is up to you to decide, but it's not worth my time trying to scare the guy when you basically gave him the nudge.

[Kison]

Ha. Knew you'd attack that instead of going after the actual argument. Glad to see that worked so well.

Glad to see if failed so well is more like it, because, I like, you know, responded to it in the simulpost right beneath it... Unless, of course, you think I typed that up somewhere between 1 and 59 seconds. You're just trying to cover your

own

word twisting. A shame it didn't work out for you.

So how about telling us why you lied?

[Kison]

Let's look at it this way - any statement that anyone can make can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways. Perhaps by "you Pikmin" he meant "I really really want a tuna sandwich". Or "A priest molested me when I was a young boy". The possibility is existant; does that make them right?

There are two

obvious

interpretations to what he said :

1) "You Pikmin" as you suggested - "You people," where he is defining a group of Pikmin excluding himself
2) "You Pikmin" as many seemed to interpret - "You damn kids!" where he is

targeting

a group that he is already excluded from.

Yes, some fool could interpret it as some other completely bogus meaning, but these are the two

obvious

interpretations, each as likely as the other. Think it's not obvious? Look at the number of folks who interpreted it as the second meaning(Pages 2 and 3), and get back to me with your wild theory that I'm manipulating this to fit my needs.

Again back to basic mafia psychology - the lying explanation, malice and all, fits you best in this situation. Anyone who is looking to understand why I did what I did would realize exactly what I intended with that statement if they read it not looking for something to attack.

I suppose that's for everyone else to decide, but there's a part of me that thinks you're making that explanation up on the spot. You lied and it didn't exactly go according to plan. Sucks.

[Kison]

And even furthermore, I would assume that the most likely person to get this is you - the American. It's a more American expression IIRC - Miztef, being Canadian, has a lovely excuse for not getting it. You don't.

What am I

not

getting? It seems like you're the one who's having a hard time grasping that the two interpretations that I presented are equally valid(the second of which seems to be the popular one around here). So please, tell me what I'm not getting, because I'm utterly confused at this point.

Now, let's consider the whole "making up an explanation" argument. Have you tried to read through and find the explanation? What does my refusal to explain imply in your mind?

The "making up an explanation" is a direct referrance to the

convenient

cover-up you presented for why you lied about me saying I was certain that GS was scum. It's not that you are refusing to explain, it's that I think your explanation is rubbish.

[Kison]

You have not proven equal validity.

Proven? No. Presented an argument? Yes. Have you refuted that argument? No. Have many others shown indication that the second interpretation is logically valid? Pages 2 & 3 suggest yes.

And you know damn well what I meant by "you don't have an excuse for not getting it"

I already said I didn't :

So please, tell me what I'm not getting, because I'm utterly confused at this point.

As much as you don't seem to want to believe it, playing dumb wouldn't benefit me. So you pretty much have two options:

1) Clarify the statement you made, and I'll respond.
2) Refuse to clarify, and keep on picking at this dry bone of an argument you have here.

Your choice.

It's a lie, yes. It's a perfectly explainable through logical reasoning lie. Why are you ignoring

that

?

Here's your justification :

Ha.

Knew you'd attack that instead of going after the actual argument.

Glad to see that worked so well. I'm more sure that you're scum than you are that anyone is, frankly.

And I know you were never certain that he was scum.

- Pointing out

a blatant lie

isn't even scummy in the first place. I'm going to do that either as town or as scum.
- I presented the second response moments after you responded, foiling your supposed trap(which, again, is complete crap) that you were

so sure

would work .
- You still haven't even explained how singling that out is scummy - I've seen people do it as town and as scum all the time, so until you show proof that it's more commonly done by scum, your supposed plan is pretty much unfounded, and therefore a rubbish excuse for what you did.

Unvote

Vote : JDodge

Lying = scummy.
Lying with claimed intention of doing so and poor justification = very scummy.

<3

[Kison]

You're very much free to point out how I'm being dumb, Flameaxe.

[Kison]

What can I say? I consider the reasoning of Kison to be sound. That is why I switched my vote.

Before I read his post, Shin Hatsubai was the most suspicious. Therefore, I was voting for him.

You're going to want to explain why you found each individual suspicious. Swapping votes suddenly without commenting on it is, well, not good.

To everyone else : He's at L-1.

[Kison]

Even if that person placed an OMGUS vote and just listed a few reasons to try to get away with it?

If I am using those reasons to "get away with it" then why are you attacking the guy who's agreeing with them and entirely ignoring the guy who came up with them in the first place(AKA me)?

Zombie, even if you have

absolutely nothing

new to add(which is complete BS - you could find something if you tried), stating

why

you agree with what someone else says/does is helpful because it binds you to that statement. You can't then later on say, "oh, well, it sounded convincing at the time" or present some other lame cop-out because you clearly stated your reason for your vote switch. I think what you did warranted some votes.

[Kison]

Vote : JDodge

because he lied yesterday with one of the sketchiest justifications I've ever seen.

Not to mention Flameaxe seemed to be tailing him.

GhostWriter : Don't think I forgot about that question.

[Kison]

I'm not asking why you voted him. I'm asking why you ignored me until I called you out for it.

[Kison]

Also, I would like you to explain why you find my vote to be OMGUS. After all, OMGUS implies that the primary reason I am voting him is

because

he is

voting

me, whereas I think I've extended my reasons suitably far beyond that.

[Kison]

Kison be less dumb, please.

This would be valid right about now. I saw red on Flameaxe's name and that immediately registered as scum in my mind.

Also, if your interpretation of OMGUS voting is right, and you're calling one vote OMGUS but not the other, despite the fact that both have reasons listed with them.

OMGUS is naughty because it implies the person who is voting is doing so primarily because they're being voted. As long as no-one's done that, then I don't see what your beef is. If my reasons for voting JDodge are acceptable to you then you I am failing to comprehend why you're voting me. So, mind explaining what exactly was wrong with my logic?

Also, I do not understand what "other" vote you're referring to.

JD : Why would LAL be a bad meta-strategy "this day in age?" Also, it's not just the fact you lied, but the

way

you did it(which I already went over yesterday).

[Kison]

Well, thing is that I'd always seen LAL apply more for roleclaiming/claimed night/day actions, rather than false accusations. However, I think that it should hold merit even for smaller things like with what you just did, especially when the explanation for doing so seems pulled out of thin air.

Now that I've answered your question you can answer mine.

Vote : Greasy Spot

- What the hell was with the hasty hammering?

[Kison]

Umm, yes?

[Kison]

LAL is an outdated meta if not solely for the purpose that as the meta of the game as a whole has evolved, lying as town in certain situations has become a perfectly acceptable play; numerous traps, gambits, etc. are formed by lies and deceit as a way of covering for gaping holes in mafia-playing skillsets. Mafia are also making conscious efforts to lie as little as possible - this is the main reason why so many people claim townie as scum as opposed to fake-claiming a power role. It's become not worth it for scum to

try

to lie anymore.

Then one must also consider that as the gameplay as a whole has evolved, playstyles have become more diverse; more and more people are falling into their own niche of how to play, and as is such, what is a scumtell for one can be a towntell for another. This makes any universal scumtell or towntell less and less reliable by the day - which makes metagaming your opponents a necessary thing. LAL is one such universal scumtell.

I've never once heard of LAL referred to as an outdated meta. In fact, I've seen it upheld for the most part(unless the liar's name is Albert B. Rampage). But you seem to be suggesting that I look at individual playstyles, and I do agree in part. Could you show me where you have pulled similar stunts as town?

So I must ask you: Do you think that me lying is a towntell for me, a scumtell for me, or a nulltell?

I'm factoring in your explanation rather than just the lie itself(which is why I didn't just vote you right off the bat). Yes, I do find this lie to be scummy.

Vote : Greasy Spot

- What the hell was with the hasty hammering?

I wouldn't call it hasty. The #7 vote was placed in post 136 and the #8 vote was placed in post #160. That's a 24 post difference and 12 of those posts were made be Zombie. He didn't sway me and he obviously didn't sway the other 7 people either.

24 posts isn't that much... The guy hadn't even even roleclaimed. Granted, he was refusing, but we'd not really had much time to talk him into it. You also only made one post after he first started receiving attention, and it was to hammer. You can't possibly tell me you didn't have anything else to add.

[Kison]

24 posts isn't that much... The guy hadn't even even roleclaimed. Granted, he was refusing, ...

It is when 12 of them were his.

Uh, no, it's really not. He should have been pressed harder to roleclaim. You kind of squashed potentially saving a power role without even participating in the discussion revolving around him.

It's up to you to prove your accusation to hold true - where can you say that I would not do this as town?

What is my accusation? That you lied to cast me in a bad image as you placed your vote, and gave a cruddy justification for doing so.

Proving said accusation : I've already proven you lied. The latter part is a matter of perception.

Lastly, you seem to think because you lied that I am sold on you being scum. That's not the case. You also did not answer my question.

]And LAL is an outdated meta. And how often does it work when you see it upheld, anyways? That is an important (and missing) distinction here. "I've seen it upheld" =/= "it works", not to mention said ABR example proves its outdatedness quite thoroughly.

The ABR example proves that lying does not guarantee scum, which LAL does not

guarantee

as a meta.

So I must ask you: Do you think that me lying is a towntell for me, a scumtell for me, or a nulltell?

I'm factoring in your explanation rather than just the lie itself(which is why I didn't just vote you right off the bat). Yes, I do find this lie to be scummy.

Pourquoi?

I've already explained why I think it's scummy on day one. You can go back and reread if you want the answer.

[Kison]

Yet you want me to disprove your own perception of events? I'm sorry, but again, it's not up to me to provide proof that your perception is wrong until you give a reason as to why it is right.

I never said it was right. That's why it's a

perception

. It's nothing I can prove is right or wrong, but rather is my take on it. I could be wrong, sure. Yet, since I already view the surrounding circumstances by which you went about lying as scummy(which you obviously disagree with), I'm asking if you have done such elsewhere so I can take that into consideration. So, if you're not going to, then I'm not going to sit here and sulk about it.

No, any meta such as Lynch All _____ is generally designed to say that whomever performs said action is scum. Otherwise it is outdated and useless.

It's designed to say that scum is guilty of an action more often than town. Therefore, anyone caught doing this should be lynched. That doesn't mean they're guaranteed to be scum, obviously, since that ignores surrounding circumstances.

...And neither am I, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove anymore.

[Kison]

I cannot disprove your take on something. You are asking me to essentially change your entire mindset about the entire situation - which is far too nebulous a task.

You can change my perception of something through argument/presenting your own perspective, which you haven't been recently. Beyond that I don't really expect much else from you.

Therefore LAL is a poor and outdated metastrategy; it would not be were it lynch certain liars for certain lies. I dislike the use of "he's lying" as an argument; I much prefer "he's lying which is anti-town in this circumstance because of X, Y, Z".

/agree

[Kison]

I'd just like to state that after Greasy's continued lack of remorse for that hasty demise, that I'd support his lynch over anyone else at this point. Others...

[Kison]

An opportunist? I'm skimming over the beginning of day two and only see Windkirby voting you prior to me, and for a different reason than I was. Your logic is flawed severely on the whole hammering thing, and you're refusing to acknowledge that pressing for his claim would have been a better route to take than the one you ultimately did.

Also, I think it's a very comical claim of yours that Zombie was wagoned for a short time. I'm looking at it right now... The post he made for which people went after him was on Mar 28, 2008 6:12 pm. You hammered him Mar 29, 2008 11:00 pm. That is not "a long time."

[Kison]

Greasy Spot : Who is scummy to you?

[Kison]

I don't see myself unvoting GS.


4 Claus (UROE, PyroDwarf, Blazerunner)

I think that's suppose to be three, unless I'm missing something here.

Fixed!

[Kison]

Well, my friend, you didn't read my posts too closely.

My GS vote day one was a random vote. I took it off very shortly afterwards and didn't even vote him again until Day Two.

Yes, I did give him some heat over the "slip," but as I explained it was to gauge his reaction. No vote there.

I do find the hammering to be a fairly big deal. When I was catching up reading what happened, Zombie, to me, seemed not to understand the importance of roleclaiming. It wasn't like several days went by with continued refusal to claim. That, on top of the fact I thought the wagon was pretty poorly founded to begin with, Greasy popping out of nowhere without even contributing to the discussion to lay down the hammer definitely killed the chicken. Um, yeah, that's a pretty terrible maneuver.

Gorrad hasn't particularly pinged my radar, but I'll gladly take another look at him tomorrow.

Ghost Writer... I almost forgot about you. Looking back, ignored one of my questions and completely vanished as I was distracted fighting with JDodge. So

Vote : Ghost Writer

until he answers. *cracks whip*

[Kison]

This does not sound like someone protesting against a poorly founded wagon.

I'm not saying the votes were unjustified, Claus. I'm saying that reason for the votes did not warrant a wagon of that magnitude(L-1), and definitely not a lynch. The problem is that the D1 votes-to-lynch requirement was decreased, so putting him at L-1 presumably was not as deliberate as Greasy's hammer.

[Kison]

Gorrad, you argued the exact opposite when you were accused of possibly slipping in Uprising(and strangely enough you are using the same game that was used against you there as an example here). Why the sudden change of heart?

[Kison]

Simple. In Uprising, my 'slip' was clarified and accepted by the town. I was able to explain it in a way that made everyone undersand and accept what I meant. Here, I cannot possibly see his slip in the light he's trying to show it in.

Did you not read the exchange between JDodge and me back during Day One?

You are a person. If you're pissed at a group of people, you could say, "You people are pissing me off."
Assume GS is a Pikmin. He says, "You Pikmin are stupid."

Doesn't mean he didn't mean it the other way, but I don't see how you can't see

that

possibility.

Also, if you were so sold on this slip being unexplainable any other way, why did you swap votes to Zombie, who, from your perspective, would have had a much lower chance of being scum?

[Kison]

Simple. In Uprising, my 'slip' was clarified and accepted by the town. I was able to explain it in a way that made everyone undersand and accept what I meant. Here, I cannot possibly see his slip in the light he's trying to show it in.

Did you not read the exchange between JDodge and me back during Day One?

You are a person. If you're pissed at a group of people, you could say, "You people are pissing me off."
Assume GS is a Pikmin. He says, "You Pikmin are stupid."

Doesn't mean he didn't mean it the other way, but I don't see how you can't see

that

possibility.

Also, if you were so sold on this slip being unexplainable any other way, why did you swap votes to Zombie, who, from your perspective, would have had a much lower chance of being scum?

Hypocrite.

Explain.

[Kison]

You were incredibly insistent on that being one way yesterday. Now you're lecturing someone else on the same single-mindedness that you yourself possessed.

Umm, no I wasn't?

Let's look at it this way - any statement that anyone can make can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways. Perhaps by "you Pikmin" he meant "I really really want a tuna sandwich". Or "A priest molested me when I was a young boy". The possibility is existant; does that make them right?

There are two

obvious

interpretations to what he said :

1) "You Pikmin" as you suggested - "You people," where he is defining a group of Pikmin excluding himself
2) "You Pikmin" as many seemed to interpret - "You damn kids!" where he is

targeting

a group that he is already excluded from.

Yes, some fool could interpret it as some other completely bogus meaning,

but these are the two

obvious

interpretations

, each as likely as the other. Think it's not obvious? Look at the number of folks who interpreted it as the second meaning(Pages 2 and 3), and get back to me with your wild theory that I'm manipulating this to fit my needs.

Please keep up.

[Kison]

Reread? Completed. I was debating with him a few days back. I have been busy and other faster paced games have, unfortunately, been taking up my time. Will be posting an update tomorrow if I can.

<3,

Your favorite Christmas receiver.

[Kison]

Vote : JamesThePhox

I concur with JDodge's case on Kison. Kison, early on, seemed to take many opportune votes, switching between bandwagons.

I would rather see more pressure on Kison than GS.

Unvote: Greasy Spot; Vote: Kison

JDodge makes a good point.

Vote: JDodge

JtP, why are you voting Kison and JDodge?

JDodge for just some weird vibes from him, and to put him at the same votes as GS.

Sorry, not good enough. "Weird vibes" can be explained as much as "gut instinct" can. Point out what is causing these vibes. Otherwise, your vote on JDodge is nothing more than OMGUS.

And while you're at it, explain how my Day One votes were opportunism for bandwagons. Nice attempt pegging it on JDodge, though.

Gorrad : Went over his posts

again

today just to reacquaint myself. Picking up where I left off, though...

Also, if you were so sold on this slip being unexplainable any other way, why did you swap votes to Zombie, who, from your perspective, would have had a much lower chance of being scum?

For Zombie, I thought them both scum and, seeing that Zombie was more likely to be the lynch, swapped accordingly.

~~~Gorrad's Day One vote on Zombie~~~

Agreed. The GS thing is frankly really confusing me, but no matter how I look at it I don't like Zombie.

Unvote, Vote: Zombieslayer54

Here's the problem, Gorrad. I don't see where your compelling "Zombie is scum" reason is. You just piled right on. And quite frankly I don't think his simple "agree with you" vote was all too damning. The point I'm making is that you claim that Greasy Spot's "slip" is absolutely unexplainable from a Town perspective. To me, if you actually thought that, then you'd pretty damn certain the guy is scum. How did Zombie's actions create an identical impression on you and why did you not even comment on it?

One other thing that caught my eye :

I can post you four cases if anyone feels the need to bitch about me using four votes. There is no reason for anyone to not commit to everyone they find suspicious.

I'm holding you to this, JDodge, only I want to see one of the cases- the one on me.

I can see why you want to know JDodge's reason for voting you, but why do you not care about the other three cases?

Tomorrow I'm rereading GS from both a Town/Scum perspective. Also will be reviewing any other person who has my vote currently. If I have time. No promises it'll get done tomorrow.

[Kison]

I didn't think that he was just as likely to be scum, but GS wasn't going to be the lynch.

Not only would I expect for you, as Town, to stick with someone who you thought was much more likely to be scum(you did not try to press GS), but I don't really buy the supposed certainty you have for GS being scum. On Day Two you spent the first six days attacking various other players for other minor reasons and did not rejoin the GS situation until... get this... a bandwagon started forming. An interesting mirroring of your actions regarding Zombie on Day One. You've simply been wagon hopping.

Vote : Gorrad

In any event, I still find your reason for being on GS to be bogus. I think you're the only one on him for the slip alone.

[Kison]

Sorry, was gone all weekend. Anyway, pre-deadline changes :

Unvote : Gorrad

One-shot Vig can be tested. Further to the point is that i it's best to let him use the kill tonight on the off chance he's Town, regardless of whether or not we can prove he made the kill.

Unvote : Greasy Spot

Seems to be a lot of opposition to this. I dislike giving people the newbie out card, but I'm thinking perhaps I put too much emphasis on the hammering. Again I do not believe the slip has any factor into his alignment and detest anyone who wanted him lynched for it(Gorrad, that means you).

JDodge - Initial vote is based on the fact I pressured a potential slip(yay, scummy!). In the process, blatantly(later acknowledged) lies about what I said in order to further legitimize his vote. Following day continues to push the lynch and again misconstrues what I had said the previous day(362). That would be the

second

time he's done that. Either very careless Town unwilling to back down, or scum. <3

JTF - I love how he pegged his vote on me while hiding behind JDdoge, then proceeded to vote him a few posts later. Keeping vote for now.

Unvote : GhostWriter

My vote was on him for not getting back to my earlier question. He still hasn't, so he needs replacing, not lynching.

[Kison]

MOD : Could we please have a prod on GhostWriter? If that's already been done, could we have him replaced?

[Kison]

Ugh. Armlx is right.

Vote : sonickid01

[Kison]

I find it hilarious that you have the nerve to call me opportunistic considering JDodge was on seven people(BEFORE he unvoted some) at the end of yesterday.

5 Greasy Spot (windkirby, PyroDwarf, Gorrad, Xdaamno, skitzer)
5 JDodge (windkirby, Kison, Gorrad, PyroDwarf, JamesThePhox)
5 Sonickid (

JDodge

, UROE, Gorrad, skitzer, Claus)
3 Gorrad (UROE, Claus, Greasy Spot)

<---He was on this one

3 JamesThePhox (GhostWriter, armlx, Kison)

<---He was on this one

3 Kison (

JDodge

, GhostWriter, JamesThePhox)
2 GhostWriter (Claus, JamesThePhox)
2 Claus (UROE, Blazerunner)
2 Blazerunner (hasdgfas,

JDodge

)
2 Pyrodwarf (Greasy Spot,

JDodge

)
2 hasdgfas (GhostWriter,

JDodge

)
1 windkirby (JamesThePhox)

<---He was on this one

1 Xdaamno (

JDodge

)
1 skitzer (

JDodge

)

In any event you really need to do your homework. First is that JDodge voted me because he disliked how I went after GS for his slip(again, no vote involved but rather the typical loving pressure you apply when someone potentially makes a slip that you can explain both ways). But I will not rejustify this because if you want that, you can again do your homework and look through our debate from D1.

Secondly, JtP voted me for my D1 "opportunism." There was no opportunism in any of my Day One votes. Again, my first two votes were random :

Vote : Greasy Spot

Unvote

Vote : Shin Hatsubai

Both placed on the same day. I just swapped them around, and neither lasted very long. Sue me. My only remaining vote was on JDodge, and that was here :

You have not proven equal validity.

Proven? No. Presented an argument? Yes. Have you refuted that argument? No. Have many others shown indication that the second interpretation is logically valid? Pages 2 & 3 suggest yes.

And you know damn well what I meant by "you don't have an excuse for not getting it"

I already said I didn't :

So please, tell me what I'm not getting, because I'm utterly confused at this point.

As much as you don't seem to want to believe it, playing dumb wouldn't benefit me. So you pretty much have two options:

1) Clarify the statement you made, and I'll respond.
2) Refuse to clarify, and keep on picking at this dry bone of an argument you have here.

Your choice.

It's a lie, yes. It's a perfectly explainable through logical reasoning lie. Why are you ignoring

that

?

Here's your justification :

Ha.

Knew you'd attack that instead of going after the actual argument.

Glad to see that worked so well. I'm more sure that you're scum than you are that anyone is, frankly.

And I know you were never certain that he was scum.

- Pointing out

a blatant lie

isn't even scummy in the first place. I'm going to do that either as town or as scum.
- I presented the second response moments after you responded, foiling your supposed trap(which, again, is complete crap) that you were

so sure

would work .
- You still haven't even explained how singling that out is scummy - I've seen people do it as town and as scum all the time, so until you show proof that it's more commonly done by scum, your supposed plan is pretty much unfounded, and therefore a rubbish excuse for what you did.

Unvote

Vote : JDodge

Lying = scummy.
Lying with claimed intention of doing so and poor justification = very scummy.

<3

Sorry but when you make something up to justify your vote then pretend like it's some grand masterminded plan after being called out for the invalidity, I'm going to vote you for it. Why? Because

that

is opportunism. I'm actually bothered that you dismissed the sloppiness of his play, and find it convenient that you wait until JDodge flips Town to go after me, Armlx. You steered very clear of our fight with a comment here and there. Only after you saw JDodge gathering votes did you start to oppose the votes on him, which in my opinion he did more than enough to deserve. Why the passion all of a sudden?

Unvote

Vote : GhostWriter

He picked up his prod. I'm ready to pick up the discussion from yesterday.

[Kison]

That is definitely worth my second vote.

Vote James the Phox

Just wondering, is there any specific reason you are hesitating on JtP?

I feel you are letting your view on Kison bias your view on JtP too much.

What triggered this change of heart? You

just now

decided you are going to agree with the exact same thing you voted JtF for?

[Kison]

I find it hilarious that you have the nerve to call me opportunistic considering JDodge was on seven people(BEFORE he unvoted some) at the end of yesterday.

I don't see your point. I'm not denying his voting practices were questionable at times, but what does this have to do with you?

It has to do with you and how you chose to ignore it. You considered JDodge to be someone who did not warrant votes :

This is the issue with multivote days: I see no reason for Claus or Jdodge to have votes right now.

...yet he was committing the same "crime" that you are now voting me for, to a much larger degree, flinging his votes around like one dollar bills in a strip club. Your viewpoint is therefore inconsistent. So again, what caused this change of heart? Why are you bending the rules for me and at this time in particular?

In any event you really need to do your homework. First is that JDodge voted me because he disliked how I went after GS for his slip(again, no vote involved but rather the typical loving pressure you apply when someone potentially makes a slip that you can explain both ways).

You continuing to do so was opportunism.

Me continuing to do what? I pressured him for a very short time. It wasn't to get the guy lynched, otherwise I'd probably have had my vote back on him(and didn't until the next day for a completely different reason). I let it go once I realized there was nothing there.

And both happened in response to building pressure on that person and you kept attacking both for an easy lynch. That is the definition of opportunism

Sorry, but my GS vote was not in response to anything he did. Whether you choose to believe that is your call. My 2nd vote was a light vote for something worthy of it at the time. It would be opportunism if I actually pressed for him to be lynched. I didn't.

My vote on JtP yesterday had little to do with his view on you and more how he just hopped on the Jdodge wagon.

I concur with JDodge's case on Kison. Kison, early on, seemed to take many opportune votes, switching between bandwagons.

I would rather see more pressure on Kison than GS.

Unvote: Greasy Spot; Vote: Kison

...two posts later...

That is definitely worth my second vote.

Vote James the Phox

...He didn't vote JDodge until the next page...

JDodge makes a good point.

Vote: JDodge

So your initial vote on JtP was placed because of his vote on me. Perhaps, as you say, his later vote on JDodge reinforced it, but again his initial vote on me "was definitely worth" your 2nd vote. All of a sudden you now agree with the very same logic that was "definitely worth" that vote.

[Kison]

In addition, yellow Pikmin can be thrown higher and farther than the other two colors, and also can carry explosive bomb rocks to attack enemies or destroy obstacles.

No I did not edit Wikipedia.

[Kison]

This is ugly but it lists some of the enemies. Not seeing any explosive ones just yet : http://faqs.ign.com/articles/390/390580p1.html

I don't know much about this game.

[Kison]

Yeah, I'll make it easier.

Who are the scum?

Hint : It's in your role PM.

[Kison]

GW : I wanted you to respond to a post of mine about twenty pages back, but for starters you can give us a list of who you suspect.

Gorrad : What do you think of the fact armlx claims his vote on JtF was due to his vote on JDodge despite the fact JtF didn't vote JDodge until after arml'x placed his vote on him? What do you think of the fact that he ignored it when I pointed it out?

Let's practice this again :

My vote on JtP yesterday had little to do with his view on you and more how he just hopped on the Jdodge wagon.

I concur with JDodge's case on Kison. Kison, early on, seemed to take many opportune votes, switching between bandwagons.

I would rather see more pressure on Kison than GS.

Unvote: Greasy Spot; Vote: Kison

...two posts later...

That is definitely worth my second vote.

Vote James the Phox

...next page...

JDodge makes a good point.

Vote: JDodge

"definitely worth my second vote" translated into "little to do with his views on you" translates into "i'm skewing this to fit my current need to vote you."

[Kison]

What you're trying to do here is underplay the significance of your initial vote, but it's not going to work. You were one of the people urging everyone not to fling their votes around, implying your vote had meaning and was more than a simple placeholder.

Like I said : "

definitely worth my second vote

" does not translate into "

little to do with his view on you

"

But that's not the point. The point is you're trying to use an argument to justify your vote when you voted someone for using that very same argument yesterday :

Here's your vote justification :

I've definitely come around to Jdodge/JtP's point of view on this. The blatant opportunism is astounding.

Here's the justification JtF used against me which you then proceeded to vote him for :

I concur with JDodge's case on Kison. Kison, early on, seemed to take many opportune votes, switching between bandwagons.

I brought this up before. You underplayed your vote significance. Tap dancing.

[Kison]

Perhaps then you should explain why you would ignore his reasons and vote him simply based on the fact he changed his vote. Because I do not understand that for the life of me.

[Kison]

Basically what you're saying here is that JtF was the first to raise a good point against me(it's a good point because you are now using it to vote for me), but when you voted for him yesterday you ignored this solid reasoning and voted him simply because he was changing his votes. That's so scummy I'm having trouble actually believing you more or less admitted to it.

[Kison]

armlx -

I'm very unimpressed with the continued pressing of the slip. It was worth pointing out and seeing if he would explode under pressure, but he didn't and I would expect pro-town players to have moved on by now.

You also said on D2 that you viewed pressuring GS over his slip to be an acceptable move up to a certain point. I was perhaps the first to back down once I saw it was getting nowhere, but you've embedded this as part of my unacceptable manipulation. Any reason I am such an exception? Also, what do you think of WindKirby?

Vote: Greasy Spot

for the hammer of the Purple Pikmin, ZS. And for other past scum vibes.

What are these other past scum vibes you're talking about?

One other thing. Flameaxe was "blown off the map." That's similar to the kill on JDodge but not quite. What kind of Pikmin enemy would blow someone off the map? Could said enemy do what Gorrad claims he did last night?

[Kison]

I noted the difference but also the similarity. Just double checking.

[Kison]

You did not really step down from GS all of Day 1 in my opinion, just drifted away and snapped back D2.

Then you need to reread Day One. I conceded that it was not worth pressuring over once JDodge came out and started explaining the likely meaning(which I later explained myself while offering the interpretation everyone else seemed bent on). My D2 vote was for the hammer. Again, reread.

[Kison]

Blatantly disagree? Maybe not. But I expressed my own viewpoint on the subject :

So yes, slips do happen to scum(and in that case, a player who's been around for a while). I'm actually less inclined to believe it's a slip, as I can see GS's post being interpreted both ways. But it was a decent thing to try to pressure him on.

Pretty much the same view you had. Decent thing to pressure, not worth it anymore.

[Kison]

Are you saying that attacking the slip is a bad thing? Period? If so then do explain.

[Kison]

Where is the cutoff point for you, then?

[Kison]

Kison is Town to the T.

GW - still alive?

[Kison]

Just read through Xdaamno's posts. He's delivered next to no content. Also :

Unvote JamesThePhox, armlx

Vote: Greasy Spot

Ignores JtP's vote on JDodge. Proceeds to vote GS in the middle of D2 without any reason. This is one you want to keep an eye on, folks.

Unvote

Vote : JamesThePhox

However, I feel most comfortable with lynching JtP, I think. His vote on me yesterday was mildly bothering. His flip-around vote on JDodge(who's logic he was

backing

a few posts prior) was even worse. Gorrad, are you still bent on GS primarily because of his slip?

[Kison]

The reason I mention Xdaamno ignoring JtP's JDodge vote is because he unvotes him a mere few posts after that vote is placed. He's either not paying attention to the game or let the significance slide.

[Kison]

Just for the record, I never argued for the slip being a valid tell during D2. I pressured GS during D1 and once I dropped it, I dropped it(other than questioning others about it).

[Kison]

I can understand his vote on Windkirby, and I've noticed the buddying. The thing I don't get is the vote on JDodge. Here's the stated justification :

JDodge for just some weird vibes from him, and to put him at the same votes as GS.

Weird Vibes. Nice. Now, what are those vibes? What caused them? It wouldn't be so bad if you hadn't been using him as a base support for your vote on me a few posts prior. So, please enlighten me.

[Kison]

Christ. That's three MIA players in a row.

[Kison]

And why isn't Kison dead yet?

Because he is Town.

Xdaamno, do you have anything

else

to add?

I remember having scum tells on JTP, which I'm going to trust myself on. Since I'm voting myself,

Unvote, Vote: JamesThePhox

Vote: JamesThePhox

for the above, + other vibes.

This is the second time you've voted him for some kind of vibes. What gives you these mysterious vibes?

[Kison]

You, my friend, are blind if you think that's been my only defense the entire game.

[Kison]

Not

For

Kison.

[Kison]

No it's not. My roleclaim was

before

that. I don't trust your reading methods.

[Kison]

Well, yeah, I would expect you to, not only because that looks like one hell of a weird role claim, but because you "have to collect data." But whatever. Doesn't matter. What does matters is that those are three instances where I have done it as Town. I won't deny I've done it as scum. But it doesn't say anything about my alignment.

[Kison]

And I'm saying it's time to move on because it's not going to help your case.

[Kison]

JDodge hasn't accused me of anything since replacing into the game. Tacked his vote on and made an idiotic and incorrect statement(again).

You are voting me because of my day one "opportunism", which I responded to very thoroughly. You're unconvinced. Fine.

Claus is voting me because I was voting Gorrad, JDodge, and GS. I've already acknowledged that I probably took the GS thing too far(and also pointed out that I was not attacking him for his slip during Day Two). I stand by my my JDodge vote, and Claus himself was voting Gorrad. So I don't have a whole lot to say that has not been said already. I do find it odd he said he was less suspicious of me then decided to vote me anyway not too long afterwards. If I wind up dying/lynched, that is something to keep in mind.

So, no, that post wasn't helping my case. It wasn't supposed to. If you think I'm stupid enough to expect "because I'm Town" to get me off the hook, then you really need to get yourself a sense of humor.

[Kison]

If you know its not productive and an appeal to emotion, why do you do it then?

Because, moments of silliness is part of my personality.

[Kison]

I'm alive, but busy. Been focusing on another game that just finished.

Interesting that JDodge swapped to armlx. *checks to make sure sky is still blue*

Wanting to look at Windkirby. Something about him rubs me the wrong way, but this could just be me. I'll try to get to that in a few days. No promises.

[Kison]

As irritating as it may be that JDodge is not giving his case, this is kind of what he did during Day Two in his previous role.

I'm starting also to suspect WindKirby and Kison less, based on a quick re-read of them both.

- My second choice would be kison - if only because he was at Jdodge's, GS' AND Gorrad's wagon by the end of day 2.

What changed here?

armlx, you've mentioned many times you dislike Pyrodwarf. What in particular bothers you?

Unvote

because I like JtP's post 586. WindKirby, how scummy am I?

Vote : xdaamno

. Lurking Master Mofo. Also, ignored my request of his other supposed JamesThePhox scummy vibes(May 22nd). Also has maintained JtP suspicion into today yet unvoted him yesterday after his weird JDodge + Kison vote. Not paying attention or simply placing votes he doesn't feel strongly about.

Not sure about JDodge/Pyrodwarf. I find Pyrodwarf's reaction to Zombie's lynch to be the scummiest part of his play. JDodge 2.0 is acting as dumb as JDodge 1.0. He needs to post his case, but it seems clear he lacks one. Wouldn't mind lynching him but I would prefer Xdaamno.

[Kison]

Jdodge2-scum would benefit greatly by looking exactly like his cardflipped predecessor. Many people are doing exactly this (count the number of "but Jdodge1 acted exactly like this!" comments). This is one reason I wouldn't let a killed player replace back into a game, btw.

Yes, but then you must wonder why you'd choose to accept the same scummy behavior the first time around and not the second time around. That's all I'm saying.

I saw the cases on Jdodge1's votes, I don't see the case on Jdodge2's vote.

If I recall correctly he refused to explain his vote on Gorrad, at least, beyond there being some sort of meta read that he had.

I had a townish read of you on D1. However, your actions D2 (voting both competing wagons) outscums the townish read.

Yes, but the reread you had came during Day Three. Are you telling me you skipped Day Two? What part of my D1 play made you think I was less likely to be scum? Because, last time I recall you commenting on my Day One play you had actually placed a vote on me, so I find this to be a mildly interesting change of heart that you're having here.

[Kison]

Honestly, I'm not sure anymore.

???????

I find it funny that you're suspecting me for having found you town-looking somewhere early D3,

No, I find it mildly interesting, just like I said, and possibly scummy pending the answer.

while at the same time not commenting/responding on the main reason I find you scummy.

Your concern is where my votes were during Day Two. If you have paid attention to my posts you will see that I addressed this in an earlier post(647). Why do you find it interesting that I have not done so again? Is it because saying that suits your need to cast a shadow of suspicion on me?

If it makes you feel better, I'll drop completely the whole "had a small pro-town kison read" thing and just push for your lynch

Your call, bad santa!

So I vote for you because you explained your positions on GW and Gorrad, but not Flameaxe, who was also in the wagon. Then I realized that flameaxe was dead, and removed the vote and the accusation.

Of course it helps you more if you make it look like I found you scummy for your D1 behavior during the whole D2, and changed my mind on D3, doesn't it? Your attempt at misrepresenting me is noted.

Sweet zombie jesus. This is not misrepresentation. The last time I recall you commenting on my day one play you

did

vote me, whether or not you removed it immediately after. This gives the impression that you didn't really have much positive to say about it and felt that whatever you saw outweighed anything you _might_ have found positive about my play, because if you found my D1 play to be pro-town

as you now claim

then I'd have expected to see you comment on it as you weighed your decision to place the initial vote on me. But you didn't comment on it, so I am asking what it is that you now claim to see so that I can see why you left this out when you placed your vote, but you now conveniently can't recall what it was, so now I'm more than just mildly interested. Do me a favor and figure out the why when you have time.

[Kison]

Keep in mind that armlx was one of the primary reasons that WindKirby was taken down. I'm mulling this over. I wasn't here at the end of yesterday due to another deadlining game. I'm writing up a post now based on things I went through during Night.

[Kison]

Also, once again that damn red text had me thinking JDodge was scum.

Black = scum. Not red.

[Kison]

I'm struggling between whether or not I should vote for Claus, here. On one hand he pushed the SonicKid deadline wagon when there were two other competing wagons he could have safely slipped onto. Yet for the entirety of yesterday he pushed for JtP, up to the point where it looked inevitable that WindKirby would be lynched(at which point he tacked his vote on). Until I remembered his role in the SonicKid demise I was going to place my vote on him, but I'm much less certain at the time.

The other three I have my eye on are GhostWriter, Xdaamno, & Blazerunner/Dcorbe.

I didn't find much in my rereads of Xdaamno and Blazerunner/Dcorbe where they referenced the two scum, but I'm going to have another look into this. GhostWriter tacked his vote onto WindKirby at the last minute after massively lurking. I think previously he was threatening to vote JDodge if he didn't explain his case on armlx. His very next post is a hammer on WindKirby. So you really need to step it up a bit.

Why those three + Claus? Primarily because of interactions between the two scum and the rest of the players. Again with armlx, I liked his role in taking down WindKirby. Also :

Sonic >>>> JDodge IMO so...

Vote Sonic

Much rather see a JtP lynch though.

Adding that JtP line doesn't really do much from a scum perspective. There was no way in hell JtP was going to get lynched over one of the other three, and were he to push for someone who he perceived as Town rather than the scum he was currently voting, it doesn't do much for his image. Definitely not sold on armlx being Town, but I don't think he's a good candidate for lynching today. Gorrad, if the only reason you're voting him is because of JDodge winding up dead, then I highly recommend you reconsider where your vote is, because he is right in saying that your vote rests on a foundation of WIFOM, which is very weak.

I am going to

Vote : GhostWriter

. I would gladly exchange this for Xdaamno, who has been

massively

lurking throughout the entirety of the game. Also, take a look at Dcorbe. He states he's content with his JtP vote, then promptly asks everyone to give their opinions of their top suspects. He posts absolutely nothing for 8 days yet manages to slide his vote onto WindKirby at the end of the wagon.

[Kison]

If you are counting on an even split among colors, I doubt it.

Also please keep in mind that if you actually intend to go through with this you will out every power role in the game, as they seem to have alternate colors.

[Kison]

If you're 85% certain then I suppose I support this. If you're wrong, though, I'll smack you with a salmon. Hard.

And yes, I am assuming purple = role. Not sure what you mean by white, Armlx. But if Gorrad is yellow, then that actually means some roles may be standard color.

[Kison]

Hence the 'may'

[Kison]

Kindly request a prod on Xdaamno

[Kison]

Well Xdaamno was prodded and didn't exactly take a hint as to what we wanted him to do. Sadly it might require yet

another

prod to get him going.

[Kison]

I made that statement after seeing the lurking you've done in the past. But, very well. If you're paying attention then that's great.

Yes, you're up, according to Gorrad.

[Kison]

Ok, let's just shut up with the speculation and hope Gorrad has something.

I'm Blue.

[Kison]

JTP, please note that by claim, we mean

only

your color.

[Kison]

Explain.

[Kison]

Also, I would like to point out that if Louie does come sometime today as a confirmed innocent, it's more than likely that we're dealing with a lot more enemies. In a normal 18 player setup, you would typically see around 5-6 enemies, but if a confirmed inno is coming into play, the enemy count could jump to 6-7, which means we could be in a Lylo situation, assuming the enemy can kill two pikmin in a row.

Last thing I would like to point out is that white pikmin, when eaten, will do damage (potentially killing the enemy), so maybe White Pikmin have a bomb-like ability.

These are wrong for many reasons...

FoS : JTP

Wait for Gorrad. Lynch + Gorrad dying = bad news if

I might have just broken this game

is true.

[Kison]

Well, like I said before, I agree. Not sure on the Red pikmin thing. Will mule this over as I obtain time.

Vote : JamesThePhox

[Kison]

Unvote

for a moment. I don't think I've seen a bomb who wasn't told they were a bomb. Could you show examples?

No one is giving me the credit. Where is this coming from?

I credited his lynch to you, actually.

[Kison]

Well, the way I read your first post on this subject, I didn't get the feeling that you assumed it was true that you could be a bomb. The problem I had with it mainly was the fact you would would speculate that a white pikmin would have an ability that you were unaware of, primarily because that's what you claimed you were. But when you came up with an explanation for when you were a bomb in the past despite being told you were a Townie, that made a bit of sense.

But, now you're saying you

are

assuming that white = bomb.

Is there anything else in your role PM that you can go into without quoting? Nightson also claimed White. You said something about poison immunity. I don't know if that's the equiv of red being immune to fire, blue to water, yellow to electricity, or whatever, as I don't know anything about Pikmin. If there's a way he can confirm that you two are the same dealo, that might help.

[Kison]

If Nightson walks in here and says he was not told of being a bomb, then I'm probably not going to place my vote back onto JTP unless there's some other kind of contradiction. What he's saying wasn't really well played but I do not think he's necessarily caught in a lie as many seem to think he is. I'll give it one more read for the hell of it, though.

[Kison]

I have played in games where bombs do not know they have a bomb-like ability. So I don't see why people are jumping on this wagon.

You said game

s

, but only specified one in scumchat. What are the others?

The hint I got from the mod was that I wasn't explicitly told that I didn't have another ability. So I don't think the mod is lying to me at all, assuming I did have a latent bomb ability.

Clarify this, please.

Yer. Apparently White Pikmin in this game have a poison immunity, though I haven't seen a Poison-based death yet, which is why I speculated about my role.

Were you explicatively told this in your role PM?

If the white pikmin were bombs, wouldn't that basically make them equivalent to a suicide or one shot vig?

If that's the case why would there be two in a game?

I'm not saying that I agree with JamesThePhox's theory/assumption that White Pikmin are bombs. I'm saying that if Nightson contradicted him by claiming that he was explicatively told in his role PM that he is a bomb, then I'd have every reason to join the JTP bandwagon.

[Kison]

The first time I've ever played with a bomb was in the MafiaScum chat, and I was told I was a townie, yet when mafia killed me, they died along as well. So I believed there was a vig or some kind of secondary killing group. At the end of the game, I was told I was a bomb who wasn't told he was the bomb.

I can't recall who moderated it, or the participants (maybe Ether?). But that was my first experience as a bomb.

Since then I haven't played with a bomb.

Why are you lying?

[Kison]

Vote : JamesThePhox

After his last response contradicting what he said earlier, I no longer feel he's being truthful about this.

[Kison]

JamesThePhox, how certain are you that you have a bomb-like ability? Give me a %.

[Kison]

Also, rank the players from scummiest to least summy. Brief commentary on each would be great.

Do you think the claimed Red Pikmin is a good place to look for scum?

Do you think armlx is Town? What do you think of his Windkirby push yesterday?

What do you think of Greasy Spot?

[Kison]

Unvote

[Kison]

Innocent:
...
- armlx: His actions against Windkirby Day 3.

I don't see why armlx is getting all the credit for getting windkirby lynched.

Why do these seem to contradict?

Please complete the other players. I'm likely going to place my vote back onto you. If you wind up being Town, I want to know what exactly you're thinking. I think I know what I will be doing tomorrow if that is the case. However, each time I second guess this, you wind up saying something that makes me want to put my vote back on you. I can't fathom why one moment you'd insinuate that Armlx shouldn't be given recognition for going after Windkirby, then the next use that very point to defend him.

[Kison]

I'm drawing a blank on that one, but I will take another look at that when I have time.

Who was it who mentioned the possibility of two scum groups earlier? I'm not finding that likely simply due to the color scheme used on the first page. Does the theme imply there might be two scum groups?

[Kison]

Well, if we're dealing with two scum groups, the idea of 'pegging' scum holding much bearing on my perception of a player is sort of tossed out of the window.

I have no real opinion on everyone else. I'll do a read through tomorrow and get a better idea.

Will wait one more day for this.

Not sure what to think of Claus's "I will hammer!" speech. I think it's pretty clear that JtP is not a bomb/hammer kamikaze at this point.

[Kison]

I think it's pretty clear that JtP is not a bomb/hammer kamikaze at this point.

Why are we still debating this? The issue is not whether he has this ability or not, it's that he claimed to have this ability because of the color he claims, not because it was told to him by the Mod.

Because Santa Claus thought people were trembling in fear of asplodin' and so offered to hammer like a hero from a fantasy book.

[Kison]

Depends... Is a Bulbmin a Pikmin?

(honestly, I don't know)

[Kison]

Vote : JamesThePhox

[Kison]

Gorrad's List :

Red:
Flameaxe
JDodge II
-----------
Xdaamno
Ghostwriter
Jester
dcorbe

Nightson, out of curiosity, why Jester over the other three?

I'm going to review the four reds. For now, I'm going to tentatively

Vote : Xdaamno

for excessive unwillingness to contribute.

[Kison]

Of the reds, then, who do you believe is scum and why?

[Kison]

You've admitted to being disappointed with your own contribution to the game. Asking you questions gives you something to respond to.

[Kison]

Skitzer, please both answer Armlx's question and explain why you believe Greasy Spot is your preferred lynch.

I'm also curious about why armlx and Claus both seem to have largely ignored me as a lynch candidate for the past two days.

[Kison]

Yes, better candidates, but you two seemed pretty certain(well, armlx, at least) that I was scum for a good while. I haven't heard a peep about it in a long time, which is strangely odd to me.

Post 11: Only serious vote is Kison
Post 14: Drops the suspicion on Kison, without a good reason, when attacked.

Ah. I forgot about this guy.

Unvote

Vote: Porochaz

Dcorbe, I dunno - a lot of his behavior, again, surrounds lurky tendencies, but he's lurked his way out of the game. Seriously, though. Dcorbe hasn't posted in this game in

a month

. That's ridiculous...

Could we please get a replacement/prod on Dcorbe?

[Kison]

*shrugs* Claus speaks the truth - GhostWriter came after me and vanished when I started questioning him about it, then seemed to drop the suspicion as a whole after he resurfaced(maybe it was before, can't recall). I'm also not sure about Xdaamno, I'm getting more of the feeling he's simply lazy town than scum, but he seriously needs to start participating on a more regular basis. With Dcorbe, it's as you said - he needs to be replaced. Porochaz is here to respond to wagon pressure.

[Kison]

Reading through his posts, I don't find a whole lot that sticks out as particularly scummy. Perhaps the only thing I really don't like that I caught was how he tried to get the benefit of the color claim out of Gorrad on multiple occasions.

The problem with him, also, is that content from Jester/UA only begins very deep into the game, because UA was a nonexistent player. There is far less to analyze from him.

[Kison]

Well, when you do post your thoughts, if you'd not mind ordering who you think is scum, that'd be great.

Dcorb was replaced. Has anyone else

not

checked in?

[Kison]

Agree with armlx, but I think it's more based on how someone lurks more than the fact they're simply lurking.

[Kison]

I suspect most people put under the spotlight are going to become more active, though, Claus.

[Kison]

I suppose. Lynching and threatening to lynch unless they shape up are two different things.

[Kison]

Thinking here: Does it seem like a town thing for gorrad to be acting the same both ways? I'm leaning towards yes, but it seems fishy to me.

unvote

I couldn't even make it 24hrs before changing my vote.

That's a very convenient way to abandon your game-long Greasy Spot campaign.

For a red lynch, I prefer Jester over Xdaamno. For a non-red lynch, I think I prefer Skitzer far above anyone else.

[Kison]

Hmm, I just reread over Jester's posts again. The main thing I really do not like about his play are the following:

1) He prodded Gorrad 1.0 about how his color claim plan would be beneficial when it seemed rather obvious that delivering that information would only make such a claim un-beneficial. He winds up claiming red along with Xdaamno.

2) Explained his unvote for JTP but not his revote. What made you change your mind, exactly?

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure why I placed him above Xdaamno. The problem with Xdaamno is that I'm finding very little content to analyze from him. I'll place a vote for one of the two soonish. I still think Skitzer is scum after his sudden withdraw from GS campaigning.

[Kison]

Jester, the unvote I'm talking about was where you unvoted JtP, stating that you would like to hear examples of where he'd seen bombs who were not told they were bombs, then later re-voted without explaining what you didn't like about his explanation. In fact, prior to placing your vote back, you made a post which looks like you were under the impression that you still had your vote on him. This strikes me as you not analyzing the situation very closely and simply following the flow in this situation.

You know, I've just realised a self-vote in this time might be the optimal play. My lynch is nearly inevitable, and if I went out right now my last few posts wouldn't be in vain as some sane players might realise I was talking sense - then again, that would only be for my satisfaction as I haven't done more scumhunting. Hah...

How would self voting result in people realizing you were making sense? Self voting typically is not a good move because fewer people actually have to come up with reasons to vote you in order for you to be lynched.

I never said I didn't want to post one - just that I was too lazy and busy with something else. Yes, I'll do one as soon as I have the heart, but only to prevent myself getting lynched - it's pretty obvious nobody will actually listen to me.

'Only to prevent myself from getting lynched' coincides with the mindset of scum. If you think you'll be lynched, you should want that analysis out there. Either way, just please get it up? I'm going to refrain from voting until you do, unless it becomes clear that you won't.

[Kison]

I'm alive. It looks like we're in a pretty sticky situation here, so I'm not going to be voting until I have time to look some things over. Give me a few days.

[Kison]

From what I can tell, if you're right, Gorrad, then the Town is fucked no matter what happens. If we lynch you, there would still be two members on the other team, and one kill will bring Town down to two members, leaving them the ability to force a no-lynch.

If we lynch someone on the other team, then you'd be able to force a happily ever after by each killing townies at night, leaving one left. How about ya not be a jackass and waste your kill tonight?

Of course, you could just be bullshitting, realizing that claiming to be on the smaller scum team would maximize your ability to avoid a lynch.

[Kison]

Vote: The Jester

[Kison]

Sorry for my shit performance. I'm slowly burning out as far as Mafia goes.

Funny that JTP was correct in part about the bomb ability.