PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Kison]

/confirm

[Kison]

Vote : hasdgfas

because this is a random vote.

[Kison]

Random votes are for losers. Let's skip that phase.

OK! You get us out of the random stage, and I'll give you a cookie!

[Kison]

Hi,

Ah, you mean that "neck cut and beaten to death" could be 2 deaths because of the "and"?

I didn't catch that either, honestly.

MBF's 108 really, really bugs me. Why? Timing. He didn't even acknowledge my logic against Iammars's existence when he, in 90, responded to the same post that said logic was in.

/agree. FireMike! You OK?!

As for Iammars, I think the wagon has a pretty fragile basis to support it(a lot of what has been brought up is simply speculative), but I guess it works as a viable route for this early in the game. I'm more interested in hearing his response to it all than I am in joining it for the time being.

I both see and applaud what Thesp was trying to do when he tried to get everyone to claim pirate/ninja. As a result...

Unvote

Vote : Gorrad

...for ruining the opportunity.

While it could very well have been a genuine view that Gorrad thought Thesp slipped up, I feel Gorrad is a much stronger choice than Iammars right now.

Have a nice day!

[Kison]

YOu really think that gorrad not only saw that Thesp was trying to out people, AND thought it would be a strategic choice to point it out so as to foil the plan? I think you give him way too much credit.

I don't know him, so I can't really say what credit he is "worthy" of receiving. Like I said, it could very well have been a genuine suspicion of Thesp, but I don't find it too far-fetched that he saw the setup, realized the danger, and got rid of it.

In any event, he did wind up eliminating a potential trap, hence my vote for the time being.

[Kison]

Hi,

Guardian, please explain the Thok<->Thesp link. Don't you think it's a little bit early to be drawing those kinds of conclusions?

I still view the Iammars wagon as a joke.

Gorrad still gets my vote for now.

Bye!

[Kison]

Guardian, please explain the Thok<->Thesp link. Don't you think it's a little bit early to be drawing those kinds of conclusions?

This is wrong for several reasons.

Yeah? And I am suppose to take your word for that?

[Kison]

Hi,

Sorry for my brief absence.

BuddyLee is back! Woot!

Guardian, please explain the Thok<->Thesp link. Don't you think it's a little bit early to be drawing those kinds of conclusions?

This is wrong for several reasons.

Yeah? And I am suppose to take your word for that?

I don't care whether you do or not - in fact, you probably shouldn't. You should rethink whatever assumptions you have about this, and why at least one person thinks you're very wrong. Perhaps its a simple disagreement, but one of us is likely wrong or deceptive. (I suspect it's the former.)

I was more or less looking for what you thought was wrong and why you had such an opinion, but if you feel the need to state a flaw's existence without specifying what it might be, then so be it. I'll go grab some milk and cookies as I work to uncover this mystery.

Second, how strongly do you think I believed in the wagon in the first place? When people asked me about this, I said "I think my vote is in a good place for now." I Never said OMG Mars=Scumz lynch lynch/dayvig! If you read my posts carefully I was never that fervent about lynching Iammars, but his was among the first substantial wagons, and I thought the evidence I uncovered was the best we had to go on at the time.

Might I ask why you found Iammars to be scummier than, say, Gorrad, at the time? The problem I'm having here is not with the Iammars wagon in itself. Rather, it's the level it progressed to over a rather minute point. Yes, I realize that there are several people out there who see a major severity in saying "Yarr", but I simply have to disagree, and this is perhaps why I am troubled by the people who stuck with Iammars as their top lynch candidate for so long.

MGM's play has seemed very superficial and he has been going for "available"/easy targets. I'm equally unimpressed with the depth of his thinking. I'm not sure to what extent, if any, this has to say about his alignment, however.

Yes, you're totally correct, my play is totally superficial and unimpressive and it's not impressing me either. That's because it's day 1 with very little solid information to go on. It's going to be a lot better day 2.

This line of thought simply

must

go away from every mafia player's line of thought.

This is never a good excuse. This is a cop-out.

Amen. Day One is definitely painful and(to me) boring, but that does not mean there is nothing to go on.

1) Was that a good vig or a bad vig?

Good choice on the who. If it was real, I would've smacked you for not letting him claim, though.

2) Thesp is public enemy #2. Should we run him up next?

No. I'm not convinced of Thespscummage yet. I was mildly suspicious of him as I caught up, especially with regards to his tendency to avoid elaborating his response to others. Doesn't seal the deal for me, however.

I assume that MBL and Fritz are town, as I find that far most likely.

I would beg you not to turn "most likely" into an assumption. Assume nothing but what you know to be true!

I'm going to have to agree with Thesp on his point that going for the vigilante over the cop was a bad move. Town can lynch. That's what they do. A cop lets you do that more accurately. However, I don't think complaining about it is going to undo anything.

OK, I just read Gorrad's claim.

Unvote

You outed your mason partner... WHY?

[Kison]

Hi!

fairly reasonable comment about Kison. Actually, on a reread Kison seems a bit scummy for his push on Gorrad (and if Iammars turns up scum then Kison's a decent bet for an Iammars partner [and likely isn't scum with TSQ], as he was consistently trying to move people from Iammars to Gorrad when there was pressure on both.)

I'm lookin at the three(3) posts where I mention Gorrad prior to the MrBuddyLee fiasco and am not seeing how I pressured people to move from Iammars to Gorrad.

Unvote
Vote: cicero

Reason #1

mass-claiming is indeed NOT the pro-town thing to do.

Are you trying to say that a mass claim would have been a GOOD route for us to take today?

Well, I like the SirT and Kalei pressure, but again on a reread...

unvote

holy fucking jesus people.

reread tonight if the world doenst end first.

Vote : Rosso Carne

This was 4 days ago. I looked out the window and the apocalypse didn't seem to reach my home. Am I the lone survivor or did you break your promise?

[Kison]

For the love of god, this is not a good quoting week for me...

My first quote in the above post should be from Thok :

fairly reasonable comment about Kison. Actually, on a reread Kison seems a bit scummy for his push on Gorrad (and if Iammars turns up scum then Kison's a decent bet for an Iammars partner [and likely isn't scum with TSQ], as he was consistently trying to move people from Iammars to Gorrad when there was pressure on both.)

[Kison]

Hi Thesp. How are you doing? Well? Not well? What do you think of Gorrad now that he claimed Mason? What do you think of Iammars now that Gorrad has claimed Mason?

I'M CONFIRMED INNOCENT!

No, you're not. Believing both you and Gorrad are town requires me to assume that you both are telling the truth. If I am assuming, then there is no certainty. If there is no certainty, then there is no confirmation. Not to mention, for such a supercool confirmed townie, you had quite a lack of contribution yourself prior to BuddyLee's vigilante fiasco.

This doesn't mean I accept Twomz's behavior(but to be fair he has used the college excuse in other games, and as a result, I am more inclined to give him a tad bit more leniency for at LEAST being consistent), but this mindset of yours has got to go. Personally, I think you and Gorrad are probably Masons together. But you're NOT confirmed.

UltimateAvalon, whenever you return, please do not forget to answer my question. Thanks.

Where the hell is Rosso?

Hi BuddyLee. Who do you think is scum? Why aren't ya voting them?

[Kison]

Hi,

Thesp, I know you're busy fighting off the Guardian Devil, but if you wouldn't mind not ignoring my questions, that would be appreciated! Thanks!

On the subject of Massclaims, I do believe they are good for Town, and I have yet to see a situation where it was, indeed, not beneficial to Town. The reason I dropped the issue, and stopped answering questions, is I don't understand theory and such, and I can't really answer why I believe massclaims are good. I simply do. The other reason I dropped the issue, is because I don't want to see a massclaim in this game (at least, not this early), as I believe it could destroy the game, not necessarily in a Town loss, but it would ruin the air of mystery surrounding it as a Stoofer game, and quite possibly make it less fun.

Correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but you believe a mass claim would be more beneficial at this point in the game than it would be detrimental, loss of game mystery aside? And come on, you can't claim you have no idea why a mass claim could be either beneficial or detrimental; that's a total cop out to taking responsibility for supporting something potentially harmful to the Town.

Question for Twomz : Despite being limited on time, you have managed to keep up with the game to an extent. Has anything in particular struck you as odd & suspicious?

So, I feel like Thok and Thesp were communicating about something, and also I see Thok's recurring theme of defending Thesp for actions similar to what others have done, and trying to redirect discussion about Thesp to discussion of other candidates.

OK. I can agree with the second point here, but what on earth would they be communicating to one another that they both would not already know in the first place[as scum]?

Those less actives I find suspicious, like Kison

Kison comes and goes like the wind. It's a tragic reality.

Gorrad said he didn't want to mess up another "secret plan" like he did earlier, so he put a weak FOS on to see where it went. Even so, he explicitly stated he didn't like the Iammars wagon, but that he'd like to hear what Iammars had to say.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY IT SHOULD THROW UP RED FLAGS. IT'S INDICATING WISHY-WASHINESS, WHICH IS MORE OFTEN SEEN IN SCUM.

Yeah? What about a townie power role who has some suspicion on him and doesn't want to be outed, or a vanilla who doesn't want to be lynched?

I wouldn't condone fear of taking a stance. Yes, some townies do it, but it is not pro-town behavior, and as a result, should not be dismissed right off the bat.

And they are good points.

now if they were good points i wouldnt have pointed them out as fluff, but as good points.

Do me a favor and point out how his points are fluff. I'm interested, and it gives you the opportunity to get back into the game.

Vote stays for now.

[Kison]

Hi,

Don't you love the look of mr. blue's face? He's smirking at

you

.



...Because he thinks this is pathetic!

Thank you, Thesp, for the response. There wasn't much urgency, but I like to have people's thoughts down so they don't make up a story as they go somewhere down the line, "...well I did this because at the time I thought this..."

I will refrain from smacking Iammars with a piece of salmon because we've already been down that road and we ain't getting much further than we currently are with him.

Guardian, why the frak are you still pestering him(post 633ish)? Time to move on!

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Content is overrated. You should vote for the people you consider suspicious.[/quote]

Hi,

FoS : KaleiÐoscøpe

Please tell me why you're in this game if you don't feel like playing?

[quote="mikeburnfire"]I retract my vote on Twomz.

unvote

[/quote]

Why?

Let's drop the yarr thing already, for the love of god.

[quote="The Fonz"]I'm really not comfortable with wagonning someone for something you admit he 'always' does. I don't think Kscope is one of those players whose very existence is town-threatening, and I don't think two weeks to deadline is a reason to lynch just anybody.[/quote]

Yeah? Who should we lynch then?

I protest lynching Iammars. First off, unless there's an idiot vigilante killing night zero, I think it's fairly safe to conclude there are two killing factions. That being said, one of those factions will eventually kill Iammars/"partner" either under suspicion of the masonry being disadvantageous down the line, or under suspicion of being part of the opposing scum group. Why should we waste a lynch on this when it will probably sort itself out later on? Even if it doesn't, we can take care of that later.

[quote="Clause"]Meh. Are you guys really going to give SirT a lurker pass? sad. Well, he is not the only one being given one.[/quote]

The problem, I think, is the fact there are more lurkers than just him. Kscope is condoning his own lurking. That is naughty. Clause, you of all people should know about naughty. Don't play me for a fool.

Unvote

Vote : Guardian

I've played with Kalei town before. I've played with Guardian scum. Kalei is acting the same. Guardian is acting the same.

I know Guardian acts similarly as town, but I find that I dislike what he's pushing far more.

I WILL move my vote if it will prevent a no-lynch.

[Kison]

Clause, are you allowing Guardian's stubbornness to mislead you into thinking he is more likely to be town as a result of it? I am disregarding his outburst - I've seen him become upset over games as scum. However, his push for Iammars simply disturbs me. What do you think of it?

[Kison]

So here is the result, Kison. If you really disregard his outburst, he was not THAT stubborn re. the Iammars wagon, until people started accusing him for it.

Well, the stubbornness or lack of doesn't get me as much as the idea crossing his mind in the first place. If he really thought that lynching Iammars was a good idea, then retracting it simply because people got on his case about it doesn't really lend him much favor in my eyes. I think that anyone who thinks the situation with Iammars through for more than a few minutes can figure out that there are better ways to handle the situation than to lynch him today.

Between him and Kalei, I would rather my vote be on him because I like what he's been up to far less.

[Kison]

Hi,

Unvote

Vote : Rosso Carne

I call bullshit on the speed of this wagon looking sketchy. We're closing in on a deadline. What the hell do you expect?!?!?

I'm not ready to off Thesp yet.

Guardian's claim can be tested to an extent.

Rosso sketchy for all reasons I said when I initially voted him/her.

If we go to no-lynch, I'm going to unleash some fury.

Later!

[Kison]

Hi!

Thanks for that insanely fast lynch yesterday. Looks like Uncle Sam got sat down by big bad Bilbo Baggins. Good work!

it's unlikely (although not out of the question) for a one-shot lynch protection to be scum.

Might I ask why? Oman had a similar protection in BM's Mystery Mafia. Granted, it didnt' work exactly the same way, but it followed the same concept of overriding a lynch vote.

anyways, i tried to kill erg0 last night. he is 100% scum.

I believe Guardian tried to kill Erg0. I see no reason for him to lie about this.

However, I do not believe Erg0 is sealed as scum based on this solely. There is a very strong chance we're dealing with roleblockers/protectors of some sort, and that cannot be ruled out. However, this is the sort of thing you need not forget for later on in the game.

OK, I just reread the rules :

In other words, for a scum cross-kill to occur, a bad guy must be targeted twice by the same scum group. If a kill fails for that reason,

the targeting scum group will be told that that was why their kill failed

.

That changes things a bit. We know that the "Goblins" either chose not to kill or had their kill blocked. We also know by the rules that they know that their kill was blocked due to hitting scum. What we do not know is whether or not Guardian lied to us. We do know he screwed us with Thok, however.

I guess one other thing we don't know is whether or not a doctorish protection would nullify the notification that they targeted scum, but Guardian insisted that he was certain of Erg0 being scum. So to me, we're relying on whether or not Guardian lied. The other thing is that if Guardian did lie to us, he did not really drop any dead certainties of anyone else being scum besides Thok(if I recall correctly), which seems unreasonable since their kill obviously did not go through that night.

we have 2 members (me + one other) so plz try not to find him/her, we were pretty disadvantaged from the start and then I effed up.

I don't necessarily buy this.

Vote : Erg0

[Kison]

Right, cause', you know, the heinous act of complaining about Billyscope's self-condoned lurking and my game-threatening vote for the Guardian Redcloak magically strikes your scumdar conveniently moments after I give my take on why lynching you might not be such a bad idea after all.

*gets his failure stamp out*

[Kison]

Meh. Coincidence. I've wasted enough breath refuting bad arguments, I'm just ignoring posts like yours at this point.

I said both Kalei and Guardian were acting similarly to how I've seen them act in previous games. My FoS was not due to Kalei's consistent playstyle but rather the fact he was condoning it despite people raising the point.

[Kison]

Woops, I accidentally hit submit before I was finished.

Meh. Coincidence. I've wasted enough breath refuting bad arguments, I'm just ignoring posts like yours at this point.

I said both Kalei and Guardian were acting similarly to how I've seen them act in previous games. My FoS was not due to Kalei's consistent playstyle but rather the fact he was condoning it despite people raising the point. I ultimately went with Guardian because of his push on Iammars, which I found to be absurd. Tell me, what would you have said had I gone with Kelei instead of Guardian? Would you have said I was distancing from Guardian without directly supporting his lynch? That's such an easy situation to twist on someone who decides to comment on both wagons, and I think you're stretching a good bit on this one.

[Kison]

My issue is not that you chose one wagon over the other, it's the fact that you FoSed Kscope at all for something that you did not adequately demonstrate to be suspicious. It feels like you just threw the FoS in for the sake of appearances.

Well, I find anyone who is unwilling to contribute

without good reason

, regardless or whether or not it's a consistent playstyle, to be a decent lynch candidate when all other avenues are exhausted, simply because you don't want them making it to the endgame where you have no read on them whatsoever. Kalei's lurkish tendency(which is one game of my own experience) does not extend to condoning the extent to which it happened.

Regarding Thesp's claim, I don't know... Misuse of such a townie role would be a huge oucher if it's indeed real, especially with the one-shot night kill immunities from scum. It'd be like a double mislynch followed by an onslaught of night kills. Believable? Thesp's either scum with this role or town with this role. He wouldn't lie about this kind of thing - if he ever wound up at L-1 and refused to use his ability, then we'd obviously know he's lying, especially with the tone of resignment to the will of the people in his latest post.

Whether scum or town originating, we have an ability at our disposal. Since it's a day-ending ability, I think it makes sense to use it on whoever we'd otherwise lynch, unless someone has a better idea.

Hey Skruffs McGruff. Who's the scum?

[Kison]

Ok, hold on a minute. I am thinking back to what I just said, and realize now that I'm an idiot. What's the plus side to your ability, Thesp? You're a day-vig, and your ability basically takes the place of a lynch, right? If you kill incorrectly, you

and

your target die. So why would you _ever_ use your ability as opposed to allowing us to lynch? If what you're saying is true, then if we mislynch, you at least know that we are only killing one townie, whereas if you mis-vig, you know that you are killing two.


~~Use of Thesp's Ability~~
1) Thesp uses ability on townie : 2 Townie dies. Game goes to night.
2) Thesp uses ability on scum : 1 Scum dies. Game goes to night.

~~Use of regular lynch~~
1) Town lynches a townie : 1 Townie dies. Game goes to night.
2) Town lynches scum : 1 Scum dies. Game goes to night.

So basically what I'm saying is if I am reading your role correctly, there is no upside - it is purely detrimental, and therefore either I cannot read or your role would be a ridiculous townie role.

Unvote

Vote : Thesp

[Kison]

The

only

upside would be if he prevented a bad lynch

and

hit accurately. That's a lot of faith(and risk) given to one player who is no more informed of the goings on than the rest of the Town is.

Has anyone ever seen this role in another game? If so, I'd be a lot more inclined to believe that this could be given to the Town.

[Kison]

So basically what I'm saying is if I am reading your role correctly, there is no upside - it is purely detrimental, and therefore either I cannot read or your role would be a ridiculous townie role.

Why would it be a ridiculous (and apparently impossible?) townie role?

I am not saying it's impossible, but you have to understand, I am having a hard time coming to grips with this being a townie role as opposed to a scum role. Regardless, to you, it shouldn't really matter. I am fairly certain you have a role similar to what you described regardless of your alignment, and you know you have this as an out card no matter where the storm lands.

...But I don't want people dismissing this as some kind of indisputable role and to let it slip under the rug, which is why I'm making a big deal about my skepticism.

[Kison]

I don't believe Thesp's claim. I don't actually believe he even has the power he claims - it is the kind of claim that is too easy to say "why use it now, we can save it for later, huh?".

Thesp's a smart cookie and I don't think he'd pull this one out of thin air without the ability to back it up. However, you're right in that it is a possibility. One of four that I can see, in fact :

1) He's completely lying about having a role. If he ever refuses to use it on demand, we simply lynch him.
2) He's scum with this ability, but it does not work as he claims(no suicide) . We lynch him once we see this.
3) He's scum & telling the truth. If he hits town, we get a 1:1 tradeoff.
4) He is town and telling the truth. If he hits town, we hit the worst case scenario.

Looking at this as I am, struggling to accept #4, you can see why testing this becomes very tempting.

I know Day Vigilantes have been used in other games before ; that wasn't what I was talking about. I'm more or less wondering if anyone has ever seen a day vigilante who suicides, kills,

and

usurps a lynch upon choosing incorrectly. The closest thing I have ever seen to this was in a game way far away from our beloved home of Mafiascum, and even then, mis-targeting only killed the one-shot vigilante and usurped the vote, leaving the innocent victim unharmed.

Thesp attacks them. If we choose scum, hip hip hooray! If we choose town,

then we don't lose a lynch and Thesp dies

.

Say what? Thesp's ability ends the day. We

would

lose a lynch.

I'm leaning towards Thesp hitting Erg0. What is everyone's thought on this?

[Kison]

Hi,

Unvote

(was voting Thesp)

I think Erg0 is at L-2. That's close enough

Claim time.

In response to whoever said that we should let Thesp randomly choose someone at a time of his choosing for fear of scum manipulation(I think it was Mikey) ..... come on now? Thesp's claimed ability takes the place of a lynch. If scum are so super manipulative over who Thesp chooses, we might as well not lynch anymore because it's 'too dangerous' that they're manipulating our votes.

[Kison]

Guys,

read

the rules.

All bad guys (scum) have one-shot immunity against any

scum

group.

Last I checked, MrBuddy McG died as town.

[Kison]

I'm gonna start wondering about you, Mr Cicero-pants, if you wind up being right about that.

[Kison]

To some real extent, if I listen to "the will of the people" and let that determine my actions, it could be anywhere from 0%-50+% scum-influenced. If I make the choice myself, I know my actions are 100% non-scum influenced (except to the extent conversation in the thread goes, etc.).

You

"know" your actions are 100% non-scum influenced, but how do you expect the rest of us to come to that conclusion? That's why the idea of testing the claim came up in the first place. From the perspective of everyone else, which is the perspective you have to deal with in these kinds of situations, we're dealing with a lynch triggered by a player. Why should we allow that to be used by someone who's alignment we were shaky on to begin with, when we could just as easily force that person to choose who we'd otherwise lynch?

[Kison]

To some real extent, if I listen to "the will of the people" and let that determine my actions, it could be anywhere from 0%-50+% scum-influenced. If I make the choice myself, I know my actions are 100% non-scum influenced (except to the extent conversation in the thread goes, etc.).

You

"know" your actions are 100% non-scum influenced, but how do you expect the rest of us to come to that conclusion? That's why the idea of testing the claim came up in the first place. From the perspective of everyone else, which is the perspective you have to deal with in these kinds of situations, we're dealing with a lynch triggered by a player. Why should we allow that to be used by someone who's alignment we were shaky on to begin with, when we could just as easily force that person to choose who we'd otherwise lynch?

I know you can't just take me at my word on my alignment. The question is, do you think I'm lying about my ability? If you don't think I'm lying, then me daykilling anyone won't verify my alignment. If you

do

think I'm lying, then why? It doesn't make sense to me, though perhaps it should, and it just hasn't been adequately explained to me why there is doubt about the ability claimed. Can you help me understand here?

I don't _think_ you're lying about having some sort of daykilling ability, although I realize I

could

be wrong. The larger problem I have comes with accepting that your role is town-aligned. With my having some doubt of the claim itself, and a larger doubt of its alignment, do you not see why forcing you to use your ability begins to look like an idea worth pursuing, especially when you indicate you'd not have a problem using your ability sometime in the future anyway?

[Kison]

He's said he dies if he kills a townie. That kind of dayvig is pretty damn likely to be town, I would say.

A townie day vigilante who either can kill scum(which would be the same result as if we lynched scum), or can kill town and die along with them(which would be a

worse

outcome than if we lynched town). I'm really not seeing the

point

of that being given to Town. The only real benefit I can see it having is around end-game or if the town is horribly misled while Thesp magically finds scum with his supercool vigilante investigative powers[the latter is sarcasm for those who can't detect it].

But a few players are now saying lets let him do what he wants with this power until game end. This means: let's just now ignore previous suspicion of Thesp, the fact that it is an odd claim, with obscure flavor, and no really pro-town use (substitutes his judgement for the towns. Robs the town of a lynch opportunity and sends us directly to night, possibly with a second dead townie (him) as collateral damage), nod and carry on.

I agree with this.

In any event, a consensus for an Erg0 death has already been shown.

Vote : Thesp

[Kison]

Hi,

Name's Kison, and I'm Town. This is good news.

Time for a r-r-r-r-rundown by k-k-k-k-kison.

~~Claimed Players~~

1) Gorrad - Mason (Oliver Hardy)
2) MrBuddyLee - Vigilante (Luke Skywalker)
3) Twomz - Goblin Finder (Bilbo Baggins)
4) Thesp - Day Vigilante (Sanada Yukimura)
5) Erg0 - Vanilla Townie(?) (Buffy Summers)
6) Iammars - Vampire Finder (Abraham Van Helsing)

~~Unclaimed Players~~

1. cicero
2. Claue
3. Flameaxe
4. Primate (replaced JordanA24)
5. Kison
6. mikeburnfire
7. ooba (replaced Rosso Carne) - not lynched Day 1
8. Rogueben (replaced Thestatusquo)
9. Samruc
10. Skruffs
11. The Fonz
12. UltimaAvalon

Why shouldn't we get other people contributing? I want to hear what everyone says on the subject - there's plenty to be said, so there's no excuse for someone to be not posting and say, "there wasn't much to say so I didn't post".

I will agree that there shouldn't be a rush. I'm not necessarily going to dismiss the possibility you have what you claim to have based solely on your unwillingness at that time to kill off Erg0. The vote, in my opinion, was to show that there was a consensus for Erg0 dying. Moving the votes over to you is simply an insurance of a sort where if you do not Vig off Erg0 before the deadline, we have the chance to string you up. Therefore,

I very strongly urge

that we get Thesp to L-2 well before the deadline so we don't accidentally mis-lynch. Get to it, ladies and gents.


Not sure what to think about the last two claims. I could see Erg0's being bogus, but it's somewhat odd it matches Iammars' to an extent as well, but I guess fake claims can do that. In any event, 3 scum groups(we know there are 3 killing factions) + cult/4th killing group would be wild. In addition, I think this emphases a point MrBuddyLee brought up about confirmable cop/doc roles(1 doc + 1 cop per killing faction). If there was to be yet a fourth, that would be 7-8 confirmable roles. Just something to keep in mind.

- Thesp should/should not dayvig discussion: If he IS a day vig, I think he should be responsible for his powers, not the town. My basic theory is that using powers is the business of the power role and no one else. Things work smoothier that way.

Do you mind going into details as to why you believe this, giving me an example of both scenarios and why you view Thesp controlling his power is the better of the two?

I know everybody's eager to have Thesp vig, ergo die, or speculate a cult, but I think that Erg0's claim could be fairly valid. It makes little sense, but a vampire red herring is viable. I feel that Iammars is just twisting this around and fake claiming Vampire Hunter so that we have Thesp kill erg0. Then we'd have a dead dayvigger, a dead miller-townie, and Iammars has a valid claim.

I feel that this is a bit of a stretch. Iammars' claim was fairly unprovoked.

Twomz is my hero.

So what you're saying is that you'd rather lynch Thesp over Erg0? Now, I'd normally be fine with that, I think they're both complete scum, but Thesp HAS claimed a power role.

What Cissoro is saying(which I completely agree with) is that we place the votes on Thesp before the deadline. If he

refuses

to use the ability he claims to have, then we lynch him. If Thesp has the power he says he has, he wouldn't let himself be killed when he has an out card. It wouldn't make any sense.

10-4

Over and out.

[Kison]

Thesp's role, if accurate, CAN win the game if we get to end game, potentially:
Thesp could day vig as soon as a day starts in a situation where scum would automatically win just by having a higher number of players; it would prevent scum from quicklynching him for an ultimate scum win, though I can't believe that thesp would be allowed to get that far by scum, unless they are reasonably sure they could get him lynched at end game or whatnot.

I brought that up in an earlier post as a plausible reason for that role being given to town. Beyond that I really am not seeing the benefit.

Kison: Is the order you have claimed players listed from most confirmed to least or first clalimed to last? I would assume that is most confirmed to leaast.

No particular order. I typically make the roleclaim rundowns by memory in the order that I recall the claims being made. Not guaranteeing that is the case, however. Also not guaranteeing I didn't miss someone(although I do not believe I did). I made the list for easy reference since we're dealing with a bunch of claimed players. Weird habit of mine.

[Kison]

Hi,

~~Claimed Players~~

1) MrBuddyLee - Vigilante (Luke Skywalker)
2) Thesp - Day Vigilante (Sanada Yukimura)
3) Iammars - Vampire Finder (Abraham Van Helsing)

~~Unclaimed Players~~

1. cicero
2. Flameaxe
3. Primate (replaced JordanA24)
4. Kison
5. mikeburnfire
6. ooba (replaced Rosso Carne) - not lynched Day 1
7. Rogueben (replaced Thestatusquo)
8. Samruc
9. The Fonz
10. UltimaAvalon

PS: Kison is also scummy.

Explain.

If we're dealing with 3/3/3, we're in trouble. 4 scum are dead, and that would leave 5 scum VS 10 townies. If I'm looking at the front page correctly, all scum kills/attempts are accounted for. This means the only way scum will get offed tonight is through MBL unless something fishy happens. So if this is the scenario we're dealing with, we'll probably wind up pulling some Mafia 69ish alliances with scum.

Guardian also claimed he only had one partner. Coulda been lying, but something to keep in mind.

What's up with Claus flipping Communist Hunter?

[Kison]

Right.

You left the big "why" section of the paper blank, though! Do not be afraid to state thy reasons.

[Kison]

*smacks Primate*

Rogueben, who's the scum?

[Kison]

Kison, who's the scum?

I say this because you seem to have been avoiding making proclamations o' that variety despite commenting on all manner of other things.

Now that's just plain wrong. I was very vocal about why Erg0 was likely to be scum(check my first post from yesterday), and why I was skeptical of Thesp's claim. That's not avoiding anything.

I

would

say that I believe Thesp to be scum, but looking back at rule #17(as someone pointed out earlier), there's no explicit statement that crosskill immunity is the exclusive result of night kills. Despite the urge within screaming for me not to believe that claim, that is something that I cannot find any contradiction for. So I'm going to give in to this one for the time being.

If not Thesp, then who? Rogueben would be an easy call, but aside from lack of substantial input, I can't recall anything he's done that glaringly stands out off the top of my head. That is not to say he's a bad lynch prospective - it just means I'd like to get something out of him first.

Most of all, I dislike anyone who said we shouldn't have tested Thesp's claim. A couple of them are dead, but...

I don't think Thesp's dayvig, seeing as its day ending, should be town directed. Its essentially the same thing as a lynch, except if we mislynch, we only lose one town (as opposed to Thesp's mis-vig making 2 dead townies)

...he's not!

Vote : UltimateAvalon

I still want my question answered RB, when you have time.

[Kison]

Before someone even tries :

Despite the urge within screaming for me not to believe that claim, that is something that I cannot find any contradiction for.

I'm not saying that I want to disbelieve the claim itself(which would obviously be stupid). I'm saying I

want

to disbelieve it's town aligned.

[Kison]

@Kison: So the reason you find UA the scummiest person in the game atm is solely because he was apart from you on one issue? Because your stance was so overwhelmingly pro-town that anyone who takes the opposite stance is anti-town now, yes?

The issue regarding Thesp's roleclaim was not just any simple issue as you may or may not believe. There was absolutely no reason not to test it primarily because of how he claimed it worked. So yes, I find anyone not wanting to follow along with what I think is a pretty damn straightforward solution to that incident to be pretty damn sketchy.

You'd do well to answer my question previous question seriously.

[Kison]

.
.
.
.
.
!.......!

Hi!

Kison had a response written up last night and can no longer find it. This is bad news. But not too bad, since it was short.

I'm no fan of folks who continually say they'll post something and never do. Rogueben, what the hell, man! You're on the chopping block. Throw a penny or five.

Oobalooba, I'm not really sure what the frak you saw in your Fonz suspicion, but even in my possessed state of mind, I do not see it. Mind rephrasing that one for me?

I still hold grudges against UA for not supporting the Thesp testage. Also, where is Primate? He get shipped back to the animal shelter?

[Kison]

Kison just posted yesterday. Kison is also super busy until Thursday.

But if you insist......!

I'm not sure how handling this would be wisest. Seems to be a rather convenient claim for Rogueben to pull out and refuse to confirm, and is quite odd considering we already had a mason batch. We're coming down to the wire, however, so mislynching would be very bad at this point. I'm going to have to agree that we should get the other name and see how they react. We're dealing with three possibilities that I can think of...

1) He is the "last" pirate as Cicero believes, or he is the last of another group(assuming weird numbering here). If this is the case, forcing the name out of him will dig his grave as the person he names will deny being buddied with him.

2) He is in another scum group and will be forced to name his partner. This is a double whammy if it backfires, because if the person he names agrees with him, and one of these two die, then they're going to lose the game, because no-one but a scum buddy would admit to being mason paired with someone who they're not.

3) He is Town and a mason.

It's deciphering between #2 and #3 that will be the tricky part. If Rogueben refuses to name someone before the deadlines with a strong voice demanding it, he should be lynched and I will gladly pile my vote on.

Who was it that mentioned something about two scum teams possibly being aligned with one another?

[Kison]

I am not RogueBenny's mason partner.

Clearly.

[Kison]

The only two other people I can fathom his partner being is one of Lawrence or Ooba, and although neither has directly stated they aren't his partner...

I agree that Rogueben's partner should confirm.

I would like Rougeben's mason partner to reveal themselves..

I think that's everyone?

Unvote

Vote : Rogueben

[Kison]

I can't think of one, either. A lot of the power roles seem to have been killed off at this point.

Kison is busy working on a big thingymajig that's due tonight.

We're down to 9 players, 3-4 scum. Not looking exceptionally great for us, here.

[Kison]

Meantime, please don't just assume Thesp and Ooba as role cleared. Thanks.

Are you referring to Rosso Carne avoiding that lynch, or something else?

[Kison]

I'm leaning towards one of UA or Primate myself. I didn't like a lot of what Primate was pushing yesterday, and his sudden radio silence after being asked some follow-up questions felt like a cheap out card to play.

I'd like both to chime in before I place my vote. If they don't... *clenches fist*

I don't get much of a scummyish feeling from Lawrence/Cicero. Fonz is minorish. Thesp I'm still holding off on because of the crosskill rule and his miraculous circumvention of it. None of the four dismissed.

CES right under Primate/UA. Need to reread Ooba.

Kison's town. Don't vote that guy.

[Kison]

plzhuryi m telbming infear

[Kison]

Oh, and if I had to choose four...

1) UA
2) Primate
3) CES
4) Ooba

[Kison]

Primate, at my very old age, that wall of text is killing my failing vision.

You are also advocating the lynch against a pro-town player. This is unforgivable.

In #585, he spends two paragraphs debunking the claimed masons as non-confirmed despite the fact they probably aren't lying, then makes snide comments against the vig and a townie who isn't even there.

They weren't confirmed. No, they probably weren't lying. Kison spoke the truth. No idea what snide comments you're referring to. I'm always mean to MBL. It's how we roll.

#990: Moves onto Rossowagon to prevent a mislynch. Doesn't post all of day 2, when guardianscum is being lynched.

Day Two was over before I even managed to check the thread. Sue me.

In #1683, he posts a list of possibilities without saying how likely each are or which he thinks is true, then proceeds to take the easy (though admittedly right) path of getting Rogueben to out his partner, though he doesn't actually say he wants Rogueben to out his partner, he says "If Rogueben refuses to name someone before the deadlines with a strong voice demanding it, he should be lynched and I will gladly pile my vote on"

This would make more sense as evidence of Kison scummage if I was Rogueben's partner. I'm obviously not.

#1219, he debunks the lynch preventer as not necessarily confirmed then says he unconditionally believes the dead scum (taking an aside from things that actually happened for a second to state an opinion, I don't think he would have been anywhere near as certain regarding trusting the word of a dead scum if he didn't know Guardian was telling the truth and that there was a scum on the other end of the lynch he was arguing for), especially considering he doubted everything else that guardian said.

I didn't accept anything "unconditionally." I used my brain and came to a conclusion.

- A Goblin kill was blocked
- Guardian gave us two high profile targets.
- It would be

stupid

,

foolish

, and

illogical

for Guardian not to pass that name of his blocked kill in some way.
- One of them, Thok, was incorrect. We saw the motive behind this.
- To me, Erg0 would likely be correct by process of elimination.

That's my thinking process. I'm hardly the only one who came to the conclusion.

Anyway, I might respond to the rest later. I don't think people want the Great Wall of Kison to be erected. If you really do, lemme know. If not, pick out the ones you really want me to respond to.

Primate : Who's my scumbuddy?

Vote : UltimateAvalon

Name the scum or die.

[Kison]

First is, I'm a Miler, and every investigator will find me to be their bad guy. The second I will carry with me to the grave, because I'm still hoping for the chance for it to go off.

So if the Pirate Finder investigates you, you'll come up guilty? Reason I ask is because they're alive, and the pirates are... well... not...

[Kison]

Nevermind, Pirate Finder is dead. Maybe I was dreaming.

[Kison]

Good catch, Ooba.

UA : An "Oh SHIT!" would be appropriate right about now.

[Kison]

First of all, <3 Stoofer. I've never been in one of your games, but I plan on changing that trend from now on, I think.

I have for some time now complained that I am cursed with either scum roles or vanilla townie roles(or close to vanilla). There was a 1 in 26 chance I got that one vanilla role. I think we call can agree that I am, in fact,

fucking cursed

.

GG

<3 Primate.

[Kison]

MBF - you get anything interesting with your Lie Detecting?

[Kison]

Lie Detector is an interesting role, and I don't think I've ever seen it anywhere else. I'd not mind seeing it toyed with again in the future.

[Kison]

im not going 2 practice with u until u stop being mean 2 me