PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Thesp: 4 (Gorrad, MrBuddyLee, Rogueben, ooba)
Erg0: 1 (Claus)

Not voting: 13 (Skruffs, JordanA24, Iammars, Kison, Samruc, mikeburnfire, cicero, Flameaxe, Erg0, UltimaAvalon, The Fonz, Thesp Twomz)

10 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~10th March

As things stand, Thesp would be lynched at deadline.

[MrBuddyLee]

I agree, Skruffs smells TERRIBLE this game. I've been thinking that for the last two game days or so.

Thesp
Erg0
Skruffs
diediedie

Can anyone with some spare time today please do a review of who's undercontributing so we can duly threaten them?
*brandishes lightsaber*

[MrBuddyLee]

3. Erg0
9. mikeburnfire
15. The Fonz
16. Thesp
17. Twomz

My guess is that at least one of these people is a Ninja, possibly two. I don't think Kison is a Ninja. Or a goblin.

[Gorrad]

That's about the same scumlist as I have, MBL, but I don't quite follow Re: the Ninjas. I see where you're coming from with Erg0 and Thesp, and to an extent Twomz, but I'd like generally some more info on why you suspect each of them.

[Twomz]

...Why do you think I am a ninja?

[Thesp]

Just a quick check-in post here before I post more tonight - I like the Skruffs hate, obviously. More later.

[Skruffs]

It's a pretty unique game for me.
*sniffs himself* I smell fine.
I'm doing everything in my power to stimulate discussion and keep the game moving .

There are several reasons I can see why Thesp is full of anti-skruffiness.

1) He is a pirate, a ninja, or a goblin. Motive: Get all players other than his team killed, and realizes that Skruffs is a pretty easy lynch, all things considering.

2) Day one, I called him out on a series of very bad suggestions; remember when he suggested everyone claim pirate or ninja? I chastized him, and he's been voting and basically saying 'kill skruffs' ever since. Speculative motive: Resentment of my wit and mental accuity in poking him at a time when his game was off; his wanting to lynch me is purely spiteful in nature.

3) He's a lyncher on me. I find this to be a possible, feasible role, based on my role, but I don't see anyone being so blatantly obvious about it. Speculative Motive: He wins if I get lynched.

4) He really doesn't care about the game, and has no idea what is going on, so is just attempting to be 'constant' if he can't be constructive. Perhaps, if scum, he's hoping i will come up scum so that he can say he was bread-crumbing cop from day 1.

That's my reasonings as to why Thesp has been voting me constantly since day 1.

Other than that, please, why not *say* what I've said that's fishy rather than just building anti-Skruffs sentiment in the community first? I can't argue against 'skruffs smells bad', especially if it's from the two most confirmed players in the game. The two most confirmed players have to remember to think for themselves; someone being confirmed doesn't make them correct.

[The Fonz]

...Why do you think I am a ninja?

I'd be interested in seeing this, too... I can't see how rival scum could possibly have pulled off what Twomz did with regard to Guardian.

[Skruffs]

I think twomz is the third most cleared in here: We know there are goblins; we know there was a goblin protector (just like the other scum groups have) and it makes sense to think there would therefore be a goblin finder as well. Nobody counterclaimed Twomz yesterday, there is no reason therefore to think he is fakeclaiming. Considering there was NO evidence of goblins AND that guardian was one of them, even, before he said something... yeah.

this is what i meant about confirmed not equalling correct.

[ooba]

You're reading, but you're not comprehending. Once again, you are assuming that he had information to give.

If the goblin kill was blocked by a doc then he knew nothing

, thus your line of reasoning is invalid.

No - He still had information to give - regarding as to who the goblins targetted Night 2. Even if the goblin kill was blocked by a doc or you are goblin night kill immune ,

he still knew that you were the person the goblins targetted that night.

Taking out scum may be more valuable than taking out a townie, but if you can't take out a scum then a townie will have to do. Also, I'd be cautious of making value judgements such as this (and your suggestion that we'd be better off if I was nightkilled) without having all of the facts in your possession.

Well i do have this fact in my possession - That you were the goblins target Night 2 - because any rational scum in guardian's place would not have lied about who they targeted that night.

So Just to be clear :
i) I'm not saying you are "100% scum" (in Guardian's words)
ii) But I'm pretty sure you were the person whom the Goblins targetted Night 2

So Thesp is probably a ninja? I can believe that, but what if Mgm just had a feeling about him and figured he would be lynched soon so he didn't target him?

Lets assume Thesp wasn't Mgm's target Night 1 . Lets say you are a cop. And you find a player making a lot of scum tells (according to you) - however you aren't able to convince the town to lynch him. Wouldn't you target him the next Night to atleast confirm he is/or isn't Ninja?

Mgm's Second quote of Day 2:

In other news:

Vote: Thesp

[MrBuddyLee]

this is what i meant about confirmed not equalling correct.

Who said anything about having to be correct? You're awful defensive there, Chico...

[Skruffs]

BooKitty was confirmed town in Open 35. She had a horrible track record of voting town and defending scum, but because she was confirmed, people were more likely to believe her.

Mister Buddy Lee, you have been killing doctors ever since you were resurrected. I think anyone in their right mind would be a little WARY of your choice of judgement.

Gorrad outed his confirmed mason buddy day one. Again, he decides to do stuff before really considering the results of those actions.

Now both of you are repeating Thesp's sentiments; his argument has basically been one of repetition.

You can call if defensive if you want, I think that if you saw someone with a lightsabre being led by the nose by someone who doesn't seem to be able to post his way out of a paper bag, YOU would get a little wide-eyed, too.

[Skruffs]

The reference to BooKitty is why I am making a point about the confirmed not being correct.

[MrBuddyLee]

Now both of you are repeating Thesp's sentiments; his argument has basically been one of repetition.

I'm voting Thesp and sincerely want him dead unless he makes a miracle post. My assessment of you is independent of that. Basically, you're trying to impugn my opinion because it's shared by scum, which would be scummy of you in a 2-way, let alone a 3-way game.

And I reserve the right to kill worthless doctors--I get green stamps which I can redeem for valuable prizes.
*points lightsaber at Twomz, then points over the left field fence*

[cicero]

Random Thoughts:

- With apologies to MBL, suspecting Twomz as being anything other than he says he is doesn't make a lot of sense. I do wish Twomz had maybe pushed the lynch more subtly rather than claiming early, but at that point his protector was unknown and not a corpse, so I understand. Also, your scumdar seems a bit off this game so maybe go a little easy on the sabring, ya. You aren't an SK after all. At the same time, skruffs, they bear some responsibility. They were both playing suspiciously in different ways.

- I think Erg0 is not just caught scum but I think I've guessed what kind: a ninja. I look back on the Guardian stuff and the timing and manner of his claim and am coming down on the side that says Erg0 got caught by the crosskill rule. Everything else is Erg0 trying to stay alive. Which is fair. But I'm not buying it. Why a ninja though Cicero? Just a hunch but when I started to go back and re-read it was Erg0 who was first to notice that MBL's night kill was really two nightkills. One being goblin by the looks of things. The other one: ninja. "But Cicero! That doesn't prove anything!!! sputter, sputter!!" Yeah yeah. Cicero knows. It's just a guess. I also don't think it makes sense to wait for scum to do town's dirty work. I'm really confused by Gorrad's position here. If he wasnt already confirmed I'd be assuming he was scum, and I obviously wouldnt be the only one.

- Suspecting Skruffs make sense except that it doesnt. What do I mean? The main flag for me on Skruffs when he looked to be bending over backwards to defend Guardian in his 47th post. I didnt understand it when Skruffs did it. But the only reason to suspect Skruffs then really was if he was a goblin. Which he isnt... because Twomz says he isnt. Other than that his play is no more or less scummy than lots of others.

- Suspecting Thesp makes sense for his play as already stated by many people (a brilliant player playing unbriliantly)... but not because of this latest MGM theory. I re-read MGM. The idea that he was pushing hard on a Thesp lynch because he had inside cop information doesn't really gel with my reading of his posts. He voted Guardian and then Thesp and then, later for good reason, back to Guardian. It seems clear to me that he was more annoyed at wagoning lurkers and trying to provide counterweight with the top wagons. I see no signals of inside knowledge in his play. This is part two of me being surprised by Gorrad's stance.

- and oh yeah, I was on Kaleidoscope because he was a super lurker and I was busy trying to pressure the lurkers. Rosso Carne and Sir Tornado were of equal value to me. Now that Rosso Carne is Ooba he seems far less deserving of a length of rope.

At the moment I think Erg0 is the play and the rest is all distraction.

Vote Erg0

[Claus]

- Suspecting Thesp makes sense... but not because of this latest MGM theory. I re-read MGM. The idea that he was pushing hard on a Thesp lynch because he had inside cop information doesn't really gel with my reading of his posts.

Yes, his D1 play does not say that, but re-read his D2 play. His early vote on Thesp does seem like a cop sign to me. And he had reasons to investigate Thesp N1.

So I think the MGM theory does weight against Thesp.

Still, folks, Erg0 is the play today.

[cicero]

Claus, it's his D2 I was referring to. I see how you can infer it but it doesn't look remotely definitive to me. In fact, as I pointed out his initial D2 vote was on Guardian. I'm much more compelled by the other arguments against Thesp. Anyway, I think we need claims from Erg0 and Thesp. No more beating around the bush.

[Claus]

In fact, as I pointed out his initial D2 vote was on Guardian.

No, it was not. It was the "in other news" vote for Thesp. Then again, that was his second post D2, I thought it was the first.

[cicero]

In fact, as I pointed out his initial D2 vote was on Guardian.

No, it was not. It was the "in other news" vote for Thesp. Then again, that was his second post D2, I thought it was the first.

My bad. I misread somehow. You're right. I take it back. For some reason I came away thinking his sequence was a vote for Guardian then one for Thesp then back to Guardian. So that part of my post above was just a big old waste of time.

This main point at least remains: we need to get claims from those two. Neither is a bad lynch although I still think Erg0 is the play because I still see Thesp as a top suspect while I see Erg0 as caught scum.

[Kison]

Hi!

Thanks for that insanely fast lynch yesterday. Looks like Uncle Sam got sat down by big bad Bilbo Baggins. Good work!

it's unlikely (although not out of the question) for a one-shot lynch protection to be scum.

Might I ask why? Oman had a similar protection in BM's Mystery Mafia. Granted, it didnt' work exactly the same way, but it followed the same concept of overriding a lynch vote.

anyways, i tried to kill erg0 last night. he is 100% scum.

I believe Guardian tried to kill Erg0. I see no reason for him to lie about this.

However, I do not believe Erg0 is sealed as scum based on this solely. There is a very strong chance we're dealing with roleblockers/protectors of some sort, and that cannot be ruled out. However, this is the sort of thing you need not forget for later on in the game.

OK, I just reread the rules :

In other words, for a scum cross-kill to occur, a bad guy must be targeted twice by the same scum group. If a kill fails for that reason,

the targeting scum group will be told that that was why their kill failed

.

That changes things a bit. We know that the "Goblins" either chose not to kill or had their kill blocked. We also know by the rules that they know that their kill was blocked due to hitting scum. What we do not know is whether or not Guardian lied to us. We do know he screwed us with Thok, however.

I guess one other thing we don't know is whether or not a doctorish protection would nullify the notification that they targeted scum, but Guardian insisted that he was certain of Erg0 being scum. So to me, we're relying on whether or not Guardian lied. The other thing is that if Guardian did lie to us, he did not really drop any dead certainties of anyone else being scum besides Thok(if I recall correctly), which seems unreasonable since their kill obviously did not go through that night.

we have 2 members (me + one other) so plz try not to find him/her, we were pretty disadvantaged from the start and then I effed up.

I don't necessarily buy this.

Vote : Erg0

[The Fonz]

Frankly, I think we should lynch the pair of them in order. I'd go for Thesp first, though. That MGM vote on day two really does look like a cop vote, whereas it's clearly possible that Guardian was just screwing with us, though my instinct is that he wasn't in that particular respect.

Vote: Thesp

[UltimaAvalon]

I think this day is going too fast...and odds are today and tomorrow we won't have scum exploding all their juicy scum secrets when they're lynched....

That being said, I'm waiting for Thesp's damning evidence against Skruffs before I do anything though.

[Flameaxe]

I'm leaning Thesp myself.

[Gorrad]

Wow. I forgot it was Twomz who claimed yesterday. Yeah, I believe that claim, just totally spaced.

Cicero: 1. Why not? The scum want him out of the picture as much, if not more than we do. It's good for all parties involved.
2. I'm not voting Thesp because of Mgm. Not in the slightest. I've been voting himf or most of the game, primarily because of his crappy bandwagons.

Kison: It's unlikely because they already have one-shot protection from NKs. One or the other I wouldn't have much trouble with, but both is pretty OP in my opinion.

[cicero]

Wow. I forgot it was Twomz who claimed yesterday. Yeah, I believe that claim, just totally spaced.

Cicero: 1. Why not? The scum want him out of the picture as much, if not more than we do. It's good for all parties involved.
2. I'm not voting Thesp because of Mgm. Not in the slightest. I've been voting himf or most of the game, primarily because of his crappy bandwagons.

1. I shouldnt have to spell things like this all out. And while I'm sure that scum with half a brain would figure it all out (ask me about my "fallacy of mentally deficient scum" sometime) I'd really rather you just think this through more. Seriously. Suffice it to say this is not something you can remotely count on.

2. Fair enough. I think his bandwagons have been highly crappy as well. I havent played with him before but everyone else seems to think quite highly of his play, so I am forced to concede that there must be something rotten in the state of denmark here as well. I've also amended my position on the MGM thing thanks to Claus.