PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Primate]

What is more likely by far is that Erg0 is, in fact, a vampire, and vampires form yet another scumgroup in the game - although that really seems to be getting crowded. But we don't know how many of each scumgroup there are. Maybe we're facing one goblin, one ninja, one vampire, one pirate and one giant man eating windmill. I don't know.

So the Vampire cult-member would claim a role that makes you suspect there are vampires in the game? Why would he do that? We're not going to get into that fun argument we had in Da Vinci again are we? I'm getting enough Deja Vu by replacing Jordan.

I think it's a godawful claim, but I don't think it hints at anything.

btb, I've read day 3, and I've read all of Erg0. I'm reading Thesp atm.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Thesp: 5 (ooba, Cogito Ergo Sum, cicero, Kison, MrBuddyLee)
Erg0: 4 (Claus, The Fonz, Gorrad, Rogueben)
Kison: 1 (Erg0)
Iammars: 1 (mikeburnfire)

Not voting: 7 (Skruffs, Primate, Iammars, Flameaxe, UltimaAvalon, Thesp, Twomz)

10 to lynch!

Deadline: 12noon GMT Monday 3rd March

As things stand, no-one would be lynched at deadline.

[cicero]

What is more likely by far is that Erg0 is, in fact, a vampire, and vampires form yet another scumgroup in the game - although that really seems to be getting crowded. But we don't know how many of each scumgroup there are. Maybe we're facing one goblin, one ninja, one vampire, one pirate and one giant man eating windmill. I don't know.

So the Vampire cult-member would claim a role that makes you suspect there are vampires in the game? Why would he do that? We're not going to get into that fun argument we had in Da Vinci again are we? I'm getting enough Deja Vu by replacing Jordan.

I think it's a godawful claim, but I don't think it hints at anything.

btb, I've read day 3, and I've read all of Erg0. I'm reading Thesp atm.

The reason would be if it was provided as a safeclaim by the moderator, I expect.

[Gorrad]

So what you're saying is that you'd rather lynch Thesp over Erg0? Now, I'd normally be fine with that, I think they're both complete scum, but Thesp HAS claimed a power role. A lot of people have shown disbelief over it, and he's been very stubborn as to using it, but the fact remains that he's claimed it over Erg0's claim of vanilla with mysteeeeerious powers. I'd rather have Erg0 be risked with a quicklynch (by being put up to L-2), than Thesp, simply because if one does occur, then the lynched person has lessened effect on the town should they be telling the truth.

[cicero]

Did you read my post about why Thesp should use his power now even if he's town and telling the truth? I thought it was pretty compelling. No one's really rebutted it. Just dismissed it.

[MrBuddyLee]

Why aren't you voting for Thesp, MBL?

I am.

FOS: CES

You actually think that scum would fake a publically confirmable role

that doesn't verify alignment

without having the ability to back it up? Ponder it. The answer may well be "yes", but I want to make sure you've thought it through.

I think I'm on the record as believing your role would be an excellent scum role, and would be confirmable, and that you're quite prepared to back it up. As you'll find out when you vig Erg0 today, exercising your rolepower will earn you at least a few measures of protown street cred, so I believe that as scum you'd have had conflicting incentives to hide it and hint at it. Town would have hidden it.

Essentially, I'm not convinced you reacted in a consistent fashion I'd expect from town.

[Skruffs]

Primate, I thought you only replaced into endgames.. Do you know something we don't?

[Thesp]

We just drove Erg0 up into the neighborhood of L-2 and Thesp said no to using his power - despite me making what I think is a very good argument in favor of him using it.

When did I say no?

Also, I disagreed with your "very good" argument, and I know I'm not the only one.

I thought it was pretty compelling. No one's really rebutted it. Just dismissed it.

I thought people had rebutted it, though even if they hadn't, it doesn't make the argument

ideal

.

Primate, welcome! Your thoughts?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why aren't you voting for Thesp, MBL?

I am.

FOS: CES

Um. No.

When did I say no?

Well, you didn't kill erg0, so I think you'll have a hard time arguing you said yes.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ok, apparently you are voting Thesp and I've told Stoofs to correct it.

[Mr Stoofer]

The Vote Count on this page has been corrected. Previous Vote Counts may wrongly show MBL voting for Erg0.

Note also that we now have a firm deadline in place.

[Thesp]

When did I say no?

Well, you didn't kill erg0, so I think you'll have a hard time arguing you said yes.

I agree.

[Primate]

The reason would be if it was provided as a safeclaim by the moderator, I expect

hm. Ok, that's fair. I just saw that Guardian had same-media safeclaims, so yeah, that's perfectly plausible. Stoofer despises cults, so I don't think we're dealing with one (or at least a traditional one I suppose), but I get your point.

I think Mgm investigated Thesp N2. I don't see anything particularly info-related in the day one happenings, but given Mgm's suspicions, it seems likely Thesp was investigated then, and I don't think Mgm would have continued attacking if he got an innocent, regardless of possible suspicion about him being in other scumgroups.

Primate, I thought you only replaced into endgames.. Do you know something we don't?

heheh. To be honest, I'm not sure why I offered to replace, I was quite enjoying my hiatus for the week or so it lasted.

[Kison]

Hi,

Name's Kison, and I'm Town. This is good news.

Time for a r-r-r-r-rundown by k-k-k-k-kison.

~~Claimed Players~~

1) Gorrad - Mason (Oliver Hardy)
2) MrBuddyLee - Vigilante (Luke Skywalker)
3) Twomz - Goblin Finder (Bilbo Baggins)
4) Thesp - Day Vigilante (Sanada Yukimura)
5) Erg0 - Vanilla Townie(?) (Buffy Summers)
6) Iammars - Vampire Finder (Abraham Van Helsing)

~~Unclaimed Players~~

1. cicero
2. Claue
3. Flameaxe
4. Primate (replaced JordanA24)
5. Kison
6. mikeburnfire
7. ooba (replaced Rosso Carne) - not lynched Day 1
8. Rogueben (replaced Thestatusquo)
9. Samruc
10. Skruffs
11. The Fonz
12. UltimaAvalon

Why shouldn't we get other people contributing? I want to hear what everyone says on the subject - there's plenty to be said, so there's no excuse for someone to be not posting and say, "there wasn't much to say so I didn't post".

I will agree that there shouldn't be a rush. I'm not necessarily going to dismiss the possibility you have what you claim to have based solely on your unwillingness at that time to kill off Erg0. The vote, in my opinion, was to show that there was a consensus for Erg0 dying. Moving the votes over to you is simply an insurance of a sort where if you do not Vig off Erg0 before the deadline, we have the chance to string you up. Therefore,

I very strongly urge

that we get Thesp to L-2 well before the deadline so we don't accidentally mis-lynch. Get to it, ladies and gents.


Not sure what to think about the last two claims. I could see Erg0's being bogus, but it's somewhat odd it matches Iammars' to an extent as well, but I guess fake claims can do that. In any event, 3 scum groups(we know there are 3 killing factions) + cult/4th killing group would be wild. In addition, I think this emphases a point MrBuddyLee brought up about confirmable cop/doc roles(1 doc + 1 cop per killing faction). If there was to be yet a fourth, that would be 7-8 confirmable roles. Just something to keep in mind.

- Thesp should/should not dayvig discussion: If he IS a day vig, I think he should be responsible for his powers, not the town. My basic theory is that using powers is the business of the power role and no one else. Things work smoothier that way.

Do you mind going into details as to why you believe this, giving me an example of both scenarios and why you view Thesp controlling his power is the better of the two?

I know everybody's eager to have Thesp vig, ergo die, or speculate a cult, but I think that Erg0's claim could be fairly valid. It makes little sense, but a vampire red herring is viable. I feel that Iammars is just twisting this around and fake claiming Vampire Hunter so that we have Thesp kill erg0. Then we'd have a dead dayvigger, a dead miller-townie, and Iammars has a valid claim.

I feel that this is a bit of a stretch. Iammars' claim was fairly unprovoked.

Twomz is my hero.

So what you're saying is that you'd rather lynch Thesp over Erg0? Now, I'd normally be fine with that, I think they're both complete scum, but Thesp HAS claimed a power role.

What Cissoro is saying(which I completely agree with) is that we place the votes on Thesp before the deadline. If he

refuses

to use the ability he claims to have, then we lynch him. If Thesp has the power he says he has, he wouldn't let himself be killed when he has an out card. It wouldn't make any sense.

10-4

Over and out.

[Primate]

Oh. I didn't realize there was a second claimed vampire hunter role. Ok.

[MrBuddyLee]

Thesp has to weigh the fact that "he may get vigged if he doesn't vig" against his desire not to vig today.

I realize that by saying this I may encourage scumThesp to use his "vig" power on me today so he can go out in an ignominious blaze of glory, but there are reasons why that wouldn't be an optimal play for his team regardless.

If you have an opinion on whether Thesp should die tonight if he doesn't vig today, it's best that you express that now.

[Twomz]

To me, Thesp not vigging today == Thesp is lying about his role ability. The only reason for that is if he's scum that wanted to wait a few days before he is lynched. But, to be blunt... Thesp, if you don't use your ability today, you are probably not going to get a chance to use it at all. I know caution is a good policy... but stalling is not.

vote: Thesp

.

[Skruffs]

Just thought of something:

Thesp's role, if accurate, CAN win the game if we get to end game, potentially:
Thesp could day vig as soon as a day starts in a situation where scum would automatically win just by having a higher number of players; it would prevent scum from quicklynching him for an ultimate scum win, though I can't believe that thesp would be allowed to get that far by scum, unless they are reasonably sure they could get him lynched at end game or whatnot.

Kison: Is the order you have claimed players listed from most confirmed to least or first clalimed to last? I would assume that is most confirmed to leaast.

[Twomz]

Usually when it gets to the point where scum equal or outnumber town, they win. So, abilities are pretty useless at that point, or else it would be much harder for scum to win.

[Kison]

Thesp's role, if accurate, CAN win the game if we get to end game, potentially:
Thesp could day vig as soon as a day starts in a situation where scum would automatically win just by having a higher number of players; it would prevent scum from quicklynching him for an ultimate scum win, though I can't believe that thesp would be allowed to get that far by scum, unless they are reasonably sure they could get him lynched at end game or whatnot.

I brought that up in an earlier post as a plausible reason for that role being given to town. Beyond that I really am not seeing the benefit.

Kison: Is the order you have claimed players listed from most confirmed to least or first clalimed to last? I would assume that is most confirmed to leaast.

No particular order. I typically make the roleclaim rundowns by memory in the order that I recall the claims being made. Not guaranteeing that is the case, however. Also not guaranteeing I didn't miss someone(although I do not believe I did). I made the list for easy reference since we're dealing with a bunch of claimed players. Weird habit of mine.

[Primate]

Him not vigging today is unreasonable, to my mind. Dayvigging will confirm him, one way or the other, and considering it steals our lynch, that's really the only advantage of it. There's no reason to hold it unless he wants to confirm himself later, and I don't get why he'd want that. Let's hope votes are irrelevant today.

vote Thesp

Thesp's role, if accurate, CAN win the game if we get to end game, potentially:
Thesp could day vig as soon as a day starts in a situation where scum would automatically win just by having a higher number of players; it would prevent scum from quicklynching him for an ultimate scum win, though I can't believe that thesp would be allowed to get that far by scum, unless they are reasonably sure they could get him lynched at end game or whatnot.

If true, it allows him to effectively kill himself at any point, which isn't too bad if he gets under suspicion. It's not a very good role, but it's certainly not useless.

[mikeburnfire]

That brings Thesp up to 7 of 10. I am likely to switch over at deadline.

[Thesp]

I think we've reached the point where futher discussion is not helpful.

*sigh*

Kill: Erg0

[Erg0]

Given Stoofer's policy, I'll get this in now just in case.

Bah.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Woo!

*hi-fives all around*

Shame Thesp wasn't lying though. Confirmed scum is always good.