Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: WhemeStar then let's get you to love it.

[Aj The Epic]

I absolutely trust that - you should place a vote so the rest of town can sheep you.

Yeah Gerry! Preferably for one of the people mentioned in your role PM!

[Aj The Epic]

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Have you played with LuV before? Asking for a friend.

[Aj The Epic]

I absolutely trust that - you should place a vote so the rest of town can sheep you.

Yeah Gerry! Preferably for one of the people mentioned in your role PM!

R u calling me maf

'ell I ain't callin' ya tawn.

Btw I'm guessing when you say sheep said something town wouldn't say, you're referring mostly to what Frogger pointed out?

[Aj The Epic]

Nope!

Kay, what's your method for choosing a random vote? My process is normally wagon someone, or start a wagon on someone I know/has talked. LUV falls under none of that for you.

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

I'm not particularly happy that your opinion is basically a non-opinion. As of so far, I've not seen you have a strong opinion on what's going on.

[Aj The Epic]

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

This is your entire opinion, and it's based off of one post by Uzi. I'm not privy to counting that.

[Aj The Epic]

Y'all have no balls if you're not willing to ship out a L-1 wagon RVS style

[Aj The Epic]

ECMitchell, Tarata can I interest you in this wonderful investment called 'avatars'? They're never out of style.

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Have you played with LuV before? Asking for a friend.

Can I ask if there's any reason you said that? Or if its just you're curiosity as why my vote is on him

Freedom of speech dictates you can ask whatever you want.

The reason is two-fold. First, my understanding of RVS is standard etiquette is to help push wagons early for reactions. This is how you get out of RVS, someone does something funny-looking (i.e. what sheep did). Secondly, specific to Uzi, he's generally lynchbait so I was interested if you knew this coming in. Pushing Uzi right from the start is a really easy scum read and a super easy way to look productive on someone who doesn't necessarily reflect pressure well.

Okay so.. Let me ask you a simple question; Was your post in question a joke or other wise non-serious post that is NAI?

It was a serious question asked in a mocking way, if he hadn't answered it would have been very serious - I leave it to you to classify that in your own joke range.

Btw Sheep, if I for example Whiteknighted you as scum, what would i gain in then instantly swapping you to a scum lean a bit later after i resisted the wagon? doesn't that kinda negate the pocketing the whiteknighting as scum could've possibly gained?

You swapped me after the pressure on me was relieved, which makes sense in a scum concept of hoping the lynch goes through and you look good for being 'right' and shifting me to a lynch option for later also plays to that potential scum play.

No.

I don't play this "answer my questions game." If you think that makes me scum for it IDGAF. I don't sit here and do what people tell me to do. That's not how I play so get off your damn high horse with this "I'd like you to do this" bullcrap.

You've already shown me you'll give absurd logic with that avatar retort. I'm not going to go around in circles with you. It helps nobody.

Could you at least address the point where I called you a misrepper/liar for how you changed up what Lowell said and then attacked me over my reaction to something that wasn't said?

Because I'd love to talk about that.

Vote: Frogger

Okay, my current scumreads don't exactly include you but this jump at the end is fucking atrocious. You go from 'let's talk' to voting frogger, who you claim to want to have a discussion with. You're so incredibly nitpicky especially in latter pages about what frogger said and not about what frogger's DONE. Because you attacking doesn't really solve anything Frogger had pushed for the last couple of pages.

While we're at it, Hawk is scum. He's sidelining as hell waiting for Frogger to push this lynch through for him. Not sure scumpartners but I think Lowell could be a second.

VOTE: Hawk

Frogger, I'm reading Cooperative sheep as scum if Hawk isn't, but this shit looks like heavy flailing. Other than this:

I generally like Naomi's entrance.
I also am okay with Terata.
That said I would tend to expect one scum amongst Terata, Naomi, and Chaos - just due to not having a town read on him and having one on the other two, I'll call it as Chaos.
I agree with people that are not a fan of Uzi's vote, but find it odd that some of these same people aren't citing Lowell.

There's really nothing outside a supposed 'slip' to call scum. And he's also picking up good reads otherwise (lowell/hawk).

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah but you're still not taking my advice and getting a fucking avatar.

Lowell's RVS vote tipped me off that he wasn't interested in either being part of the Whemestar wagon or was afraid of the attention. Then he hops on (what I think is) an easy mislynch. Same sort of style as Hawk.

Tbh if I was a god this scumteam is Whemestar/Hawk/Lowell because of Lowell's actions, but it could just be avoiding attention.

[Aj The Epic]

Are you on like your third game then? Because last I remember people thought about lynching you while you were a claimed mason.

[Aj The Epic]

Gerry, do you not have any opinions on who's scum now that your earlier wagon is somewhat contestable?

[Aj The Epic]

Tom Brady and Bill Belichick be listening to some Marvin Gaye together.

Fuckin' Patriots.

[Aj The Epic]

Gerry I'm still interested in:

Gerry, do you not have any opinions on who's scum now that your earlier wagon is somewhat contestable?

@Fro99er you and I have got to play more. That was almost exactly what I expected when you voted Chaos. The other thing I'd mention is that Chaos and Sheep have followed me both on Wheme and Hawk, which has been a bit weird considering in each time, this presents the next biggest counterwagon to sheep.

Hawk-Lowell and Chaos-Sheep have both shown patterns of following each other a bit more than I'd be comfortable with thus far. And uh...

AJ. The only real, strong townread I have in this game. His calling out hawk posts are spot on, and he's in general a good kind of lurker. The one that shows up, is right, then leaves.

????

This is my most recent substantive post...

Yeah but you're still not taking my advice and getting a fucking avatar.

Lowell's RVS vote tipped me off that he wasn't interested in either being part of the Whemestar wagon or was afraid of the attention. Then he hops on (what I think is) an easy mislynch. Same sort of style as Hawk.

Tbh if I was a god this scumteam is Whemestar/Hawk/Lowell because of Lowell's actions, but it could just be avoiding attention.

Uhhhhhhhh what the fuck do I say about this?

[Aj The Epic]

@Mod you're giving Lowell a double vote on Sheep and Chaos.

~Fixed. Saw it before you posted this.

[Aj The Epic]

What should I make of Lowell telling me I'm town because when I post I'm always right and my reads being him/hawk scum?

[Aj The Epic]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

No opinion on:

Lowell and my interactions
CO and Frogger's interactions
Sheep's response to it
Gerrygoat in general
Lowell on ECM and Naomi

There's a circus going on and you're just focusing on the last act.

[Aj The Epic]

No, if Wheme is scum, game's over because his partners are Lowell/Hawk.

[Aj The Epic]

Dude if this is how you want to act and the extent to which you can contribute, feel free to shut up and get carried.

[Aj The Epic]

Bro your iso has less useful information than the nutritional facts memo on a bottle of water.

[Aj The Epic]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

[Aj The Epic]

Are you stupid? I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

[Aj The Epic]

Are you stupid? I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

Yet your vote remains elsewhere, because...?

Ya know, the logical fucking progression is "I scumread someone else harder"

[Aj The Epic]

@Lowell, by the way, the bold text is an example of someone "flipping their shit" over nothing.

Oh we playing this game? Because I got another good example.

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

"Look at what I could be doing but am not!"

What's the point of you saying this? Are you legitimately saying you should be seen as more town for this?

I'm still comfortable lynching Wheme. In their claim though it looks like the role name was copied and pasted, including the extra period and all. Intentionally formatted that way? Would copying from the role PM like that even be allowed?

Jaja talk about preemptive shit flipping.

[Aj The Epic]

Also I don't see associative things between me and Lowell that AJ was pointing out... like maybe we were on similar wagon's around similar times but that's all?

So the fact that you two both decided to beat a dead sheep was a part of it. The second is that Lowell's posture after I stated this was to say you're scummy but not as scummy as Sheep (as seen by his vote and only FOS on you). Last, you do have a tendency to defend him subtly, specifically in your case vs sheep when you talk about cooperation and shit. And of course you being really into Wheme being town hasn't been that helpful in dissuading my feelings on this. Lowell won't even give a read on Wheme.

Definitely can't say that I understand how committal you are on Lowell. To me, he's pretty cut and dry.

VOTE: Lowell

I will admit though I'm more confident on him being scum. He's blatantly just going for big wagons.

Also, Terata's actions recently are suspect. He actually has Gerry down twice in his reads, null and weak town. He's reading Lowell as town... On the same level of his read on me which is unequivocally garbage. And his Chaos read being scum leans is definitely FOTM rather than actual belief. My belief is he's trying to gauge some reads off of other people and is a bit behind on trends.

I want Fro99er to tell me what about Lowell/Terata's vote switches made him comfortable following that. I know you townread Terata but Lowell looks like a freelancer willing to lynch anyone BUT Wheme at this point.

P-edit: Yeah I don't know if terata is out of his league vs ECMitchell or that's just strong town mitchell but Terata's definitely not winning this argument.

[Aj The Epic]

Flavor of the month/moment.

Funny how everything you disagree with is 'shading'. Stop using a buzzword incorrectly. ECM is making points that you don't have good answers for. Specifically:

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

In your most recent post, you've still yet to show an example of what you're seeing here.

[Aj The Epic]

So Terata, Lowell, Penguin and possibly wheme/hawk brining up the scumboat. Also ECM is now officially a vanity wagon with no reason for either scumbutts to be on it.

[Aj The Epic]

What's the reason we haven't tied up Lowell yet? He's giving scumreads out like water and yet people aren't voting him. Scum would ATTACK this weak of a townmember, guys.

[Aj The Epic]

I'll be giving a bit more to this game later today/tomorrow.

[Aj The Epic]

Chalking this readthrough up to 'single worst of the game thus far'. Just completely fucking whiffs on every important event. Also has no solid opinion of Lowell so far rofl. Continues the slot's trend of thinking Naomi isn't town or something so that's some cute synergy.

[Aj The Epic]

No I think the slot is town, just the catchup misses the point by a mile or so.

[Aj The Epic]

Fro99er I don't know how to get you to vote Lowell, as he is clearly scum. Dude's had 0 traction on a wagon despite being near universally scumread. Honestly, if you're wondering about Hawk's and Wheme's alignment, why lynch Sheep (who they're both voting for). Granted I'm pretty sure Whemestar just is super new rather than scum but like I think the wagon on Wheme is slightly more town (ECM/LuVSlot, maybe even Chaos). I also see no reason my theory about Hawk/Lowell should be discarded at this point even considering their independent actions are hella scummy.

[Aj The Epic]

fuck you frogger.

I'm not really scumreading wheme anyways.

[Aj The Epic]

fuck you frogger.

I'm not really scumreading wheme anyways.

What did I do to deserve that?

Not believe me:

but I want Lowell ;~;

This is me actively resisting the Lowell lynch

Look at what AJ has posted.

He sees associatives between Lowell, hawk, and Wheme.

You townread hawk, right? Wheme is town and hawk can kind of confirm this somehow.

[Aj The Epic]

Aj that's rude -_-
AJ what's your read on the Garrybote slot?

That gerry is being intentionally useless but I don't know enough about him to know if he's always useless.

[Aj The Epic]

rolecop
cop
gunsmith?

[Aj The Epic]

Vig, not cop

[Aj The Epic]

Cop or vig would imply Wheme is most likely scum. But they claim that at night by an action

But Hawk said it was mechanical.

So I think I know what he means.

What the fuck is a mechanical role... Like mechanical in the way that it has an active night action or mechanical in that it actually affects shit going on?

[Aj The Epic]

When you have obvious scum, you vote obvious scum.

[Aj The Epic]

Can we stop getting sidetracked by stupid shit? My only experiences with Alisae is him looking lowkey like scum regardless.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't enter that way. Y'all are dumb for not lynching Lowell yet and all this other bullshit is standing in the way of stringing up scum.

I've played with Ali twice, once where he had to claim vig and looked like an SK for a while until we got a clear idea of the roles, and the other where he replaced in and looked decently town by PoE but in no part to his own play. I don't think Alisae is scum here, or at least couldn't care less about lynching that slot today.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm pushing my scumread.
Garry isn't.
Garry really hasn't made any serious pushes on like, anyone. His pushes lack conviction.
Scum can't fake that kind of conviction.
Garrybote is scum that needs rope.

Don't you ever use that read on me because I'll burn you with that belief. Conviction is EASY to fake.

[Aj The Epic]

And tbh we're not even touching on the fact that Sheep is a dreaming god.

[Aj The Epic]

But really that's too much town power written in in Frogger's post. Bet's on Wheme or Hawk second scum here to Lowell. But apparently we can let CO take care of Wheme's claim.

[Aj The Epic]

Rolestopper Roleblocker and Jailkeeper are the main scum roles for active or preventative actions. It doesn't matter the modification. Sure ninja/Strongman exist but you'll never see someone claim something similar to that anyways.

[Aj The Epic]

AJ do you still want to lynch Lowell?

*checks vote*

if Lowell flips scum are you intent that I am partners with Lowell?

If lowell flips scum, don't you think I'd have to? Are you honestly not going to lynch him on the grounds of him flipping scum incriminating you?

[Aj The Epic]

You could just let Aj guide y'all to victory on the Hawk/Lowell train. Hawk's recent posts are fucking trash because he seems to miss the fact I say he's only in deep IF LOWELL FLIPS SCUM but he's treating that as a foregone conclusion and not voting Lowell as scum.

[Aj The Epic]

scum lurking out the day?

Yeah Aj's a ghost and this is a newfound revelation.

[Aj The Epic]

You mean him fos'ing someone you've been hinting suspicion at for the last 100 posts and ignoring all the incoming pressure, posting RIGHT BEFORE he's about to get wagoned?

Nah, fuck that.

[Aj The Epic]

Like what am I supposed to like about yet again my suspicions of him and Hawk being a crew when all he does is talk positively about someone who's tripping over their ass every time they're mentioned as possible scum with lowell?

[Aj The Epic]

AJ what's your read on Ali?

Positive enough that I'm not lynching him today.

[Aj The Epic]

Still doesn't solve overloaded town. Still too much power.

[Aj The Epic]

Can we talk about the fact that there are still 4 votes on Wheme even though we have this possible night action? Alisae, Terata, ECMitchell, CO. Oddly, ECM/Terata let their arguments against each other just die.

Also Lowell's reads give him no sustained reason to be voting ECM at this point, especially considering in last interaction, Terata really sucked at arguing against ECM. And Lowell supposedly has more recent scumreads.

[Aj The Epic]

There's still the fact that one of our claimed PRs is scum.

[Aj The Epic]

More importantly, take an even/odd cop pair. A cop's power is a hypothetical 1, then both even and odd cop have a hypothetical .75, because it takes 2 days to kill them and doubly as many outs to find them. Individually they're weaker but together they're a gigantic pain in the ass.

[Aj The Epic]

Not really. He could realize the clusterfuck he's in with all these potential PR claims and not want to reveal. He might've been planning to 'clear' wheme tomorrow to help keep his scum buddy alive. There's nothing preventing their alignment...

[Aj The Epic]

Chaos, wasn't it your idea to claim in the first place?

[Aj The Epic]

Will you or will you not have a definitive answer on Wheme's claim tomorrow?

[Aj The Epic]

....Yeah, mine. AKA the one we're in.

though not sure about Wheme. More interested in Terata maybe.

[Aj The Epic]

You realize that the case on you is that if Lowell flips scum, you're scum. I've explained this multiple times and EVERY TIME you act like this leads to your death.

Are you agreeing with me here?

[Aj The Epic]

Like they keep saying town play has gotten worse on MS which makes me nervous but jesus you can't scream scum much louder.

[Aj The Epic]

Hold my scumdar I'm going in

[Aj The Epic]

If sheep flips town I expect Lowell dead no questions asked REGARDLESS of my presence tomorrow.

[Aj The Epic]

If sheep flips town I expect Lowell dead no questions asked REGARDLESS of my presence tomorrow.

Sure let's 1v1 if sheep is town. Actually, let's 1v1 if sheep is scum, too. K?

Oh what a great mystery, I wonder who wins a 1v1 between me and you...

No, you really don't understand. You DIE if sheep is town. There's nothing more to it.

[Aj The Epic]

Gerryoat, I need to ask for science:

Have you read more pages in The Cat in the Hat or this game thread?

[Aj The Epic]

Hawk was such a weird kill. Worth looking at what he's said, because I don't see why killing him would do anything.

Yeah the NK was weird as shit, but they might've just been targeting claimed PRs.

I think Fitz is a good place to start the day. I mean I'm all for a lowell lynch but like either flip was gonna help figure this game out. To really force that one when fitz didn't have a huge opinion prior is a bit strange. Who's he replaced in for?

Also lowell I'd still bet I'd win a 1v1 vs you.

[Aj The Epic]

Hypothetically though I'm still #1 in that.

Okay so my reservation with Fitz is I liked naomi tan's posts (his predecessor). Could see it being CO or terata.

[Aj The Epic]

What's CO's result?

Also would rather not end day this early

[Aj The Epic]

Hey Whemestar, interesting avatar. Check user: Ajwf

[Aj The Epic]

VOTE: Chaos Omega

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah dw activity is optional.

[Aj The Epic]

Are you looking EC/CO right now, frogger?

[Aj The Epic]

Can you explain this? Chaos said right off the bat that he looked guiltly for being on my wagon and said he wanted to look at others on the wagon as suspects. Seems like either you think "okay, that's reasonable," or "this guy is just trying to back peddle out of a jam." Why wait to cast this vote? And why not expain?

Saying you look guilty abstains you from all guilt. Today I learned.

[Aj The Epic]

No there's no need to play soft here. If someone quickhammers, they come under suspect regardless of flip.

[Aj The Epic]

You know you turn this game into a scenario where we can use you to prove Wheme's alignment and then you give us shit all on that front.

[Aj The Epic]

Uhhhh Fr99er professional opinion on amount of investigative power town is allowed to have?

[Aj The Epic]

So backup/tracker/other investigative role+Wheme

is probably not feasible.

[Aj The Epic]

Frogger, I have a moderate powered investigation role, basically on a role cop's level. That was one of the reasons I called the claims out yesterday, because it was obvious town couldn't have that much power.

[Aj The Epic]

am i the only one confused af from all these unprovoked claims this game? like wtf

He could be trying to call chaos out on his BS of fake invest claim. IDK

but he claimed it as a question of what it possibly could mean to Frogg... not as a sure push. that's so not worth

Scum's already down a member, they have at most 2 left. We can shaft them super hard on associative tells and power balances, and I was already not happy with how Chaos handled yesterday. Really, Chaos claiming tracker and then getting nothing back to us is kinda bullshit. Especially claiming THAT ROLE proved Wheme was scum.

[Aj The Epic]

I'm not giving away my full role and don't have reason to full reveal. And I doubt I'd be taking advice from you anyways.

[Aj The Epic]

No I doubt they'd let me push a second day wagon because I had suggested it was one of Sheep (off Fro99er's guess) or Lowell/hawk pair. They'd probably NK Fro99er and try to ignore me since I still wouldn't be easy to lynch.

Regardless Chaos has a shitton to answer to in terms of this game and nothing he's done lives up to that cute title he's got.

[Aj The Epic]

Personally I could see CO claiming his scumbuddy went nowhere. There's actually 0 excuse for his roleclaim day 1, and then to not at least try to track wheme, one of two other claimed power roles and the most questionable one from his perspective is not right.

[Aj The Epic]

It's also very possible CO doesn't feel possible claiming where other people possibly went due to snake in the grass PRs.

[Aj The Epic]

Question 1: Do you have any intention on playing this game?

[Aj The Epic]

This is why vigs.

[Aj The Epic]

You're dismissive of the game. I want to know is there any point in working with you or are you just wanting to be lynched.

[Aj The Epic]

Ok the follow-up then:

What made you feel you are a counter role to Wheme?

If ECM didn't do anything, what's your take on the night kill? Who done it?

[Aj The Epic]

Preference on today Fro99er between the two?

[Aj The Epic]

I would say AJ should fullclaim, but I actually think it's better AJ keep the investigative role he is hidden

I just want to know if AJ got a result

ECM did not make a kill.

I'm willing to take this 1 for 1 and roll Alisae first but I'm trying to figure out what the point of Alisae's claim is from scum right now.

[Aj The Epic]

All I see is disappointment.

[Aj The Epic]

I don't have much comments for this game, the biggest thing was Fro99er deciding to get himself lynched instead of Alisae, which I think could have been done. Some town did really well, some didn't.

Like... This is probably my biggest issue with the game. Not only did people quickly decide to believe Alisae, who had been a complete nonfactor compared to Frogger, but they did so in such a way that suggested they were scum. More than a little pissed that y'all decide potential PR > for sure town leader.