Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[Oman]

Do you mind me asking what you mean by "Drafting"

Do I select one or many?

[Oman]

I'm looking for something that will work regardless of which side I'm on.

I think I'll pick

Eden

[Oman]

Dear god I hope not.

Also, yes Shaft.ed, I could be scum, thats why I'm preparing for it.

[Oman]

Awesome Cam.

You know if you do that too many times we get nuclear winter...wait...thats not smalltown.

Also, I can't believe TSQ actually got Micah. What a lucky guy.

[Oman]

I think Eden, Nathan and Peter are dangerous in the hands of scum, especially if two or more are partnered together, and can cause a lot chaos in town without town realising it.

I'm town, so you shouldn't worry.

Okay, I'm back. I don't like ZONEACE, but he's a little too behind the curve to be wrong. Shea seems to be thinking, and not acitng on a "this person is town, this person is scum" pre-knowledge system.

[Oman]

Shaft.ed is either being lazy or trying to draw sheavotes. I doubt it is scummy as its not terribly effective.

[Oman]

I'm treating Eden as a standard busdriver that doesn't effect mafia kills or SK kills. Its considerably underpowered for a busdriver, but I still like the role.

I'd like to ask people, please work off the assumption that I'm town here (as I'm looking for advice). Do you feel that my usage of my power tonight would be a benefit or a detriment to the town?

[Oman]

how so shea? I'd know if X targeted Y I suppose. I'm like a weak tracker.

Regardless, I'm looking right now at using it on one of the more scum-biased roles, which I cannot determine without careful study.

Mod:

Can I target myself, so that I swap with someone else?

[Oman]

I'll clarify the above: say I could make Linderman (Doc) protect myself?

[Oman]

Yeah, god forbid she understands how her role works,

Ouch. I know the moogle looks girly, but lets make an effort.

I have a few bonuses as a redirector if the doc is still alive (and town), I can make the doc protect me (I know I'm confirmed town), I can make the doc protect himself, I can make anyone else protected if the doc is mafia (if he's Sylar its definatly harder).

I think directing watcher tracker is useless. The only reason I'd do it is if they're scum and making bad choices, but they'd get the results anyway, so there is no point.

Adele is a key person to dicover the alignment of.

Mod:

If I influence mathcam, how long does it last for?

[Oman]

Adele, if you're town I want to target you ASAP. If you're scum, my role in your hands could be very not good.

[Oman]

His wanting to protect himself using the doc

I'm a confirmed townie, the only one I know. Why wouldn't I want to do that?

You know you cannot verify anyone else's alignment, thus you should not be considering this course of action.

There are other people in this game with powers other than me and Adele, and they can't

all

be scum.

[Oman]

I dislike your face!

[Oman]

In order to estimate the usefulness of Doc protecting someone you should calculate Probability of Town*Probability of NK. I think your score will be much lower than other players in this game.

That works for me.

True, but we cant assume your all telling the truth either..

Yeah.

Mathcam is right, I shouldn't use my power N1 (based on my previous N1 experience).

investigative roles are best sent towards Peter as they can help the town regardless of Adeles alignment

Please explain this.

[Oman]

if you include me in the calcs, then with 3 semicops, we'd "expect" exactly 1 scum.

I don't get how you come to this conclusion. You could all be scum.

[Oman]

Oh I see Adele.

[Oman]

"Of the powers that can be sent to Adele, the investigative ones would be the most beneficial to the town."

Not if she's scum.

[Oman]

Also, mathcam's post doesn't seem relevant to me, as its a hypothetical that isn't well...relevant.

[quote="mathcam] much like in Dethy-type games. [/quote] They're also not fun.

[Oman]

Cop A, B, C will give guilty/innocent.

We're talking about a tracker, a watcher, and whatever Adele uses. We're not getting comparable results unless the person the tracker tracks hits the person the watcher watches.

[Oman]

OM

A

N

A couple pages ago you were discussing sending her your redirection ability, although it had previously been discussed at length that your powers in scum hands basically nullify investigation results and could make a town aligned doctor absolutely useless. Now you're getting hesitant about her being given Investigation powers, even though they can still be in the town's benefit if given to scum.

To quote a great frog: Reading the Thread is Tech.

Adele is a key person to dicover the alignment of.

Adele, if you're town I want to target you ASAP. If you're scum, my role in your hands could be very not good.

I was talking about Adele's alignment and how important it was, you just wanted Adele to get the roles regardless.

The problem with scum running this gambit is that it will come down to two people telling the town that the other one is lying.

They could both be mafia.

Vote: Shaft.ed

This is the third (?) time you've done something strange like this. Its simply falsifying.

[Oman]

Shaft.ed - It is a bad idea to give scum investigative powers. Why? because we'll TRUST her. And trusting scum is not a good move.

[Oman]

At least for now?

[Oman]

shaft.ed is voting me based on my role, mostly, which is interesting, as I chose it before i got my alignment.

[Oman]

Ah, sorry, that wasn't meant to be a comprehensive thing, it was just a short mention.

[Oman]

I will lie through my teeth if i feel it gives me a better chance at winning this game.

[Oman]

Thats a good point, but I beleive mine stands as well. I'm fine with giving her powers if people agree not to act blindly on the results.

[Oman]

How curious:

Finally his role is most detrimental to the town, so regardless of his usual playstyle he should be making a serious effort to look town today.

He has also been overly eager to claim his towniness which I also find to be a scum tell.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Also, my role could be dangerous to the town, which is why I asked for advice on its use. You seem to give with the right hand and take with the left.

[Oman]

Sorry shea, I missed it being one line at the bottom of the page. Doing now:

I will post the people I am willing to lynch, and why, and the people I am not willing to lynch, and why, later today.

[Oman]

Adele: Peter Petrelli, Role Absorber

As you know, I feel that Adele as town is a great asset, that being said, I feel that Adele as scum could be dangerous. I can't see a real flaw in Shaft.ed's plan to give her a track or something. Regardless, I am unwilling to trust Adele right now, due to the power of her role, thus I am not happy to lynch her, but have no clear town read

Zindaras: Mohinder Suresh, Networker

Zindaras is in the game? LAL in me cries to lynch her.

mathcam: Ted Sprague, Walking Bomb

A real danger player here. If he is Sylar/SK, we have no problem, as him using his power is not likely, if he is town, him using his power is not likely at this point of the game. I do not feel that mathcam is the lynch today.

Oman: Eden McCain, Subliminal Influencer

Not the lynch, despite, you know, not being scum, there are a few other reasons. Like the power of my power.

curiouskarmadog: The man with the horn-rimmed glasses, Jailkeeper

Jailkeeper as town is a good role, being able to protect friends and RB enemies (not at the same time). I also have zero scum read from CKD.

JDodge: the Haitian, Dampener

JD is a psycho, and I have real trouble analysing his play. He has one reliable scumtell I've found and if I see it, I'll let

you know

.

shaft.ed: Nathan Petrelli, Motivator

Perhaps the scummiest read I've got, though by no means definative. He seems to contrive a lot, and rerange the truth, but he also has some very good thought processes that aren't swayed to either side. I'd be happy with a shaft.ed lynch, though.

Thestatusquo: Ando Masahashi, Vanilla

No real chance of being dangerous tonight powers wise, unless he is Sylar, and if he's mafia his lynch wouldn't stop the kill anyway. Shea is also pushing for discussion. I'm going to say I would be against a shealynch.

ZONEACE: Matt Parkman, Tracker

Not much read. Based on power alone, I'd want him to target Adele before we lynched him.

Gorgon: DL Hawkins, Hider

Not much read.

YvonneSeer: Claude Rains, Watcher

Yvonne is interesting to me. She argues against mainlining our powers to Adele, which I agreed with (shaft.ed gave some good thoughts on that). Probably townie right now, more would be said by Adele's alignment.

davidangelsummers: Daniel Linderman, Doctor

A near useless ability for Sylar or mafia, will not hurt to leave it another day.

my lynch candidates: Zindaras, Shaft.ed

[Oman]

Works for me, it just needs to be fixed (D1 is so the best time to crack out LAL though).

[Oman]

curiouskarmadog again a bit of a missnomer. He just strikes me as town who is not particulary good at defending himself. Thats all. Call it a gut feeling.

My Meta on CKD is he has a better defence whilst scum then town. Though I've never seen him be quite so angry/sarcastic in a game.

[Oman]

Shea's argument satisifies me, I am more unnerved by zoneace than shaft.ed right now, but only cause I feel he's stopped fabricating craplogic.

Unvote vote ZONEACE

[Oman]

I am pretty sure our scum (in this game) are quietly sitting back

What makes you so sure?

[Oman]

Oh good, I thought this game was getting too mature

[Oman]

If any player asks the town a question like that, I don't see how anyone can justify NOT answering it. I agree with TSQ that there is no pro-town excuse why you won't do it.

[Oman]

maybe I'm just stuck in a groove, but almost every single post of Oman's sets off my scum-ometer

I blame confirmation bias.

[Oman]

Putting Zindaras up as a prime lynching candidate instead of just asking to have him replaced was pretty dubious.

Works for me, it just needs to be fixed (D1 is so the best time to crack out LAL though).

[Oman]

Also notice I never actually voted Zindaras, I prefer replace over LAL if it can happen quickly.

[Oman]

Yeah thats cool. I wont hold it against you

[Oman]

Bear in mind the season, which will affect response times.

Summer?

[Oman]

Then, leading on from there (IF you do) I was asking if you were willing to put any kind of deposit down on it - never thinking it'd be as bald as "if he's innocent you are if he's guilty you are",

Yuck. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

There is no way for a town CKD to know anyone's alignment, and tieing himself in either way will only end (IMO) with a CKD lynch. If he's scum, so is CKD (because he put down the "deposit" [note i'm ignoring WIFOM as your inital comment ignored it]).

If he's town, CKD must have been scum trying to tie himself to a townie, thus CKD is lynched.

Adele, thats a really bad idea where you assume innocence or guilt in a one to one like "if he's innocent you are if he's guilty you are". I know you were intending to do something less "bald" but anything more than "If CKD is scum/town I'll eat my hat" is a stupid "bet" to make.

[Oman]

I know you were intending to do something less "bald" but anything more than "If CKD is scum/town I'll eat my hat" is a stupid "bet" to make.

[Oman]

He's using insults, not answering people and in many instances avoiding serious discussion, but he has at times partaken in discussion although usually after much requesting.

Oman why do you never answer my inquiries completely (or sometimes at all)?

How interesting when its ZONEACE its not scummy but with me you often refer to it to cite my scummyness (IIRC).

[Oman]

Its a matter or principle now.

[Oman]

Unfortunatly, every one of my games with ZONEACE are ongoing. So I'll have to do some sitewide reading.

Anyone got any suggestions of a town game and a scum game in which he played liek this?

[Oman]

Well, interestingly enough, Cam and Shaft.ed have just given two games with the smae play as town and scum.

[Oman]

Well, Fonz is right, the wagon on me is not the usual "OMG OMAN IS WAGONING" wagon.

Adele is creeping up my scumlist as Shaft.ed pointed out, she's suddenly coming to the party now that it looks like a possible lynch.

Unsure of where I stand with shaft.ed now. He's dropped a lot of the horrible, crappy, arguments on me that he had early on.

The only way that is true is if you're scum.

Lieing as a townie can help the town. Its true, unfortunatly

He lists an inactive on his 'willing to lynch' list, that sets all my alarms ringing. Shaft.ed's 373 sets this out perfectly.

I said in my next post that a replacement would suffice.

I don't like his move onto ZA, which seems like the easy counterwagon to his own.

I have not moved onto him, I merely wanted to be involved in the meta discussion. You've overstated my postition.

[Oman]

Am I?

Unvote

Fuck.

Well, now I look stupid.

This game has a setup that makes lying as town even less likely to be helpful than usual.

Thats a good point, but it still doesn't change the fact where I will lie if I feel it will help me win. That point may not arise, but I'll do it if it does.



I still look damn stupid.

[Oman]

I'm looking through this thread and I'm hard pressed to find a really scummy player.

Vote No lynch

[Oman]

Because, TSQ, I've developed a plan for tonight that will give us a large ammount of information (actually its more tomorrow morning). I also am having trouble finding anyone really worthy of my vote in a traditional sense.

[Oman]

Care to describe this plan?

I'd love to, Unfortunatly, it relies on nobody knowing it.


Oh and on the innocence wager. I thought it was a bad idea from the start.

. Then, leading on from there (IF you do) I was asking if you were willing to put any kind of deposit down on it

This part sucks. Forget the second part:

never thinking it'd be as bald as "if he's innocent you are if he's guilty you are",

The first part alone is enough to make me fume. Townies (in this context, including powerroles) shouldn't vote/not vote because it makes them look scummy or not. They should do what they want based on what alignment they think the person is. AND TOWN MAKE MISTAKES, all the time! So the only person who gains from your "innoncence deposit" is scum.

THAT

is what

I

find remarkable!

[Oman]

If this master plan is a reason for you not to be lynched today

I never said that, stop putting words into my mouth.

attacking or supporting someone is, to some extent, and among other things, a gamble on the innocence or guilt of that person?

Why did it need to be said? If it ALWAYS happens, then why did you need to push it on to CKD? Why did you even mention it?

I will however attempt to figure out this master plan of Oman's, and if I do I will consider changing my vote. But I highly doubt it exists.

It does. And I don't expect too many people to trust me, after all, this game isn't about trust. If just enough do that we can take it to NL or, if something superscummy comes up, them, then I'll be able to help.

[Oman]

It was to explain my NL vote.

Not as an excuse to escpae a lynch.

[Oman]

Ah, well...you see, the reason I'm voting nolynch is that I can't pick a scum.

I'm embarassed, but my scumdar is borked.

[Oman]

I have a sneaking suspicion, shaft.ed, that if I divulge my plan, I'll actually ruin it.

There is a way that could easily out scum, but doesn't really confirm a town. It has issues within it, which I will also explain tomorrow.

[Oman]

Oman, What Shea said. If you're dead, I don't see your plan working too well.

Well, I doubt I'll be killed.

For one thing, I'm carrying the most votes, and that is something that I (when I play scum) try to keep around.

Oh, and if I do die, well, that would suck...I hadn't thought of that.

Shaft.ed, do you think I'll die tonight?

[Oman]

Oman, What Shea said. If you're dead, I don't see your plan working too well.

Well, I doubt I'll be killed.

For one thing, I'm carrying the most votes, and that is something that I (when I play scum) try to keep around.

Oh, and if I do die, well, that would suck...I hadn't thought of that.

Shaft.ed, do you think I'll die tonight?

[Oman]

Oman, What Shea said. If you're dead, I don't see your plan working too well.

Well, I doubt I'll be killed.

For one thing, I'm carrying the most votes, and that is something that I (when I play scum) try to keep around.

Oh, and if I do die, well, that would suck...I hadn't thought of that.

Shaft.ed, do you think I'll die tonight?

[Oman]

Ohhh.

Well...yeah.

[Oman]

Post 'Splosion.

You're seriously using that as an argument? Really?

Its a meta, no less valid than any other.

After Cicero's post I'm considering self-voting, as he says, tactics to the town. But like Fonz says, Bus driver would not be Sylar's first priority.

Basically Oman can give useful powers to Peter/Adele against the will of the person owning them.

I hadn't even thought of that. Shit, we need a cop, and we need it on Adele

Okay, due to the fact that I'm likely going to die, I will reveal it, and to hell with it now.

The Mafia "Thing" says this:

Each night one of you (and only one of you) may target a player and kill them. If you do, you may not use any other night or day choice your role would normally allow you to use until the following night

Wouldn't it be logical that the mafia would use someone WITHOUT a power to make the kill? Thus I was planing to redirect ZONEACE onto either TSQ or Adele (as both are, at present, powerless, and thus candidates for mafia kill). Unfortunatly, this would not work on Sylar (thus I said "Doesn't really confirm a town") unless it was done at a later night to TSQ who would then have power.

Also, ZONEACE (who could be mafia with them) would then reveal YES I FOUND THA KILLER! When his results came up, thinking he could get a town lynched and blame me or someone else for distorting. That way we would have found if Shea/Adele was mafia/Town+sylar.

Now I need to think of something New...fuck.

[Oman]

Mathcam, Jdodge, CKD, cicero, The Fonz and gorgon

Actually, it only works if the mafia member that performs the kill is whoever I redirect to, but lets look at these.

I forgot Mathcam, thinking he had a power and moved on.

Jdodge is a power the mafia would probably use.

CKD Has another power the mafia would probably use.

Cicero is a toss up, but if I was mafia, I'd probably use it.

The Fonz and Gorgon would both definatly use their powers as mafia, keeping themselves (or their team) safe from Sylar.

I don't know where those three (Yvonne, ZA, and you) came from, becuase I was talking about shea or adele being scum, not any of you three (except where I said the tracker may be).

[Oman]

Thats a good point, one that I had not thought of. I suppose it all depends on how scummy the players are (i.e. how likely they are to be tracked).

[Oman]

I'm going to be deadline Lynched.

There is really nothing I can say except that I found the early cases on me (like asking about my role but saying "i'm town, what should I do" meaning that I'm scum looking for approval) dissapoint me.

[Oman]

At least if I'm lynched Sylar wont get my power (and the ability to doc protect himself).

[Oman]

thus have no cover if they are caught by a tracker/watcher thus they're only making NK's if they're Sylar who can't be seen by a tracker.

I think you're assuming too much, that the scum wouldn't want to use their powers and feel safe that certain people wouldn't use their powers.

Oh, and Adele, your cockiness annoys me, just letting you know whilst I die.

[Oman]

Yeah, thats fair.

I'm sorry town, but I don't have a whole lot of leads for you.

I was looking at shaft.ed early, and it ruined it. Now I'm second guessing myself.

[Oman]

if enacted would have been antitown regardless of Oman's alignment.

Thats bullshit.

The only bias is that I have been pressuring him more than I probably would have,

Not to mention I was nearly your first candidate for lynch, you didn't really look elsewhere.

We have the Doc redirecting to him,

A damn powerful thing if I'm town and the doc is mafia, no?

the not wanting to pass powers to Adele,

You've done nothing but harp on how terrible my power would be for the mafia, and now you WANT me to pass it on to someone who's alignment is unknown? You're lynching me to get the role OFF the table citiing the fact that I wouldn't give it to someone else!!!!

the "I'm going to lie" comment,

Yep, and I would've. I didn't funnily enough. Oh, and tell me how it benefits to say that if I'm scum. Of course, I would've lied as scum, but tell me how it benefits me to tell everyone that I will?

the opprotunistic ZA vote,

I can't remember why I voted him, I'm sure if I looked back I'd know why. This is the first one I really agree with you on. This looked scummy.

the poor plan

Cause town always plan things out perfectly?

and other actions that I see as scummy.

I'm sure they're as high calibre as this.

the not wanting to pass powers to Adele,

You've done nothing but harp on how terrible my power would be for the mafia, and now you WANT me to pass it on to someone who's alignment is unknown? You're lynching me to get the role OFF the table citiing the fact that I wouldn't give it to someone else!!!!

THIS is an example of the craplogic that shaft.ed was using. Lynching me because my power is good for the mafia, but wanting me to give it to someone else.

Vote Shaft.ed

And if he is scum

FoS Adele

. With Shafte.ed trying so hard to get my "mafia-benefiting" powers onto Adele, I wouldn't be surprised. Either that or she's a townie he thinks he can control.