Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[The Fonz]

who can't be tracked to a kill

I don't think I've noticed that part.

Matt Parkman - Tracker (ZONEACE)
You can read minds. Well, you can hear thoughts - bits of them, fractured and incomprehensible. You can't get at all the details but you can certainly get something. Each night you can target a player, and you should be able to at least make out who, if anyone, they are targetting that night.

Note - if you target Sylar, you will get there too late to pick up anything about the kill,

and only hear about who, if anyone, he targetted with his regular ability.

I could see him using it, though, in ways you havent considered. Like using a tracker result to cast suspicion on someone who is pressuring him.

He'd have to know who scum is to pull that off, though. And if you know who scum is, why not just say so and pocket the townie points for good scumhunting?

[cicero]

No. He just has to create any situation where someone earnestly accuses someone else of being incorrect.

[cicero]

Any way, you've convinced me that I overstated the fears of Sylar taking on that power since he's already untrackable and doc proof and the jailkeeper is unaffected. Now, how about if Oman is mafia? Is there any useful application any one can see for keeping that power in the game from a townside perspective?

[The Fonz]

No. He just has to create any situation where someone earnestly accuses someone else of being incorrect.

Which, in order to do, he has to hope that the tracker would have gotten an incriminating result. If an incorrect result is not incriminating, but obviously incorrect (like, say, me doing nothing) all it does is prove that the bus driver power has been used. Which would clear at least one of those involved of being Sylar.

[shaft.ed]

OK, so he can't mess with the tracker, but the watcher role is still in play. So he's still dangerous to one of the two investigative roles. And I'm still finding him scummy.

Oman if you claim your plan and it makes some sense I would seriously consider moving my vote. I think that claim was one of the scummiest things you've done and I don't believe that you can reliably out scum as you can at best effect three people in the game any given night phase. I truly don't know why its taking you so long to get back to us on this, are you having touble coming up with one?

[The Fonz]

Any way, you've convinced me that I overstated the fears of Sylar taking on that power since he's already untrackable and doc proof and the jailkeeper is unaffected. Now, how about if Oman is mafia? Is there any useful application any one can see for keeping that power in the game from a townside perspective?

Well, apparently Oman has this big secret plan. But basically, I agree that his power is more use to the scum than the town. In fact, were we not to lynch him, I'd suggest that it's in the town's interest not to use it right now. Bus driver CAN be a very useful town ability- see Glork's use of it in Scrubs smalltown for exactly why. But it's most useful in late-game situations. Early on, it just confuses things- and if Oman uses it and dies on the same night, that's really messed up.

[cicero]

Sylar or mafia wants to kill someone. The watcher role is dangerous to them. They possess the roleblock power - either because Oman is already mafia or because Sylar takes it. Or maybe because Oman and Adele are both mafia. :p The scummo targets the watcher and moves them out of the way. Proceeds to kill.

It is not clear to me... is someone is bus driver affected they dont get told they ahave been bus driven, as I recall. The roleblocking power makes far less effective the closest thing to a cop we have.

I also can't see any townie use for the damn thing.

[The Fonz]

This bus driver power is not actually a bus driver, since it can't redirect kills, which is the main benefit of a town bus driver (since a bus driver could logically switch

anyone

, the scum can never kill without risking it being switched to one of their own).

It's hard to see the town application. If scum lie, there's the possibility of catching 'em out, i spose. But there's a ton of wifom attached to anything the driver could do.

[cicero]

Yup - basically given all information I'm still for lynching Oman. Though Fonz has definitely helped to discipline my thinking.

As for Oman's big idea, if Oman does live until night, I can think of at least one way his power could be immediately useful. I dont know if it is worth keeping him alive for. Basically Oman can give useful powers to Peter/Adele against the will of the person owning them. That's potentially what he was thinking of. That could be useful, certainly. But that's all I can think of in terms of brilliant townside gambits.

[shaft.ed]

No cic, he said he could out scum with it.

Here's Oman after being pressured by TSQ after he No Lynch vote

Because, TSQ, I've developed a plan for tonight that will give us a large ammount of information (actually its more tomorrow morning).

Here he's giving a little bit more about what his "plan" actually will do:

There is a way that could easily out scum, but doesn't really confirm a town. It has issues within it, which I will also explain tomorrow.

[cicero]

Well, I can't figure out what that magic plan could be other than the one I just said. I mean, can you?

Well OK. I've figured one way out that's pretty clever actually. It doesnt need to stay secret. Frankly I think it's more powerful out in the open.

If someone is tracked or watched to their kill they are going to claim they targetted them with their ability if they have one. If at all feasible, they will want to use the kill and the power together. If Oman redirects their power he could conceivably catch them in a lie. I don't know that that is a LARGE amount of imformation though.

[JDodge]

Mod:

I would like to request replacement at this time. I am sorry for the inconvenience, but I have fallen way too far behind and do not have the time to catch up.

[Thestatusquo]

fos Cicero

I don't like how you claim to have a town read on Oman, say you are conflicted, and then proceed to put him at l-1 with no apparent qualms. That's outrageous to me.

[cicero]

fos Cicero

I don't like how you claim to have a town read on Oman, say you are conflicted, and then proceed to put him at l-1 with no apparent qualms. That's outrageous to me.

I'm cool with being outrageous to you. I've been quite transparent with my motivations. If I wanted to just force a mislynch I would have just talked about how scummy Oman seemed to me. It's really quite an easy thing to do. I could do it in a future post to prove it by example if you like.

My town read was on Oman as of page 11. It changed. I believe I said that. The only town read I ever had on the guy was him stating that he is town.

Oh. Aren't I supposed to remind you never to play in a game of mafia with me ever. You may need to replace.

[Oman]

Post 'Splosion.

You're seriously using that as an argument? Really?

Its a meta, no less valid than any other.

After Cicero's post I'm considering self-voting, as he says, tactics to the town. But like Fonz says, Bus driver would not be Sylar's first priority.

Basically Oman can give useful powers to Peter/Adele against the will of the person owning them.

I hadn't even thought of that. Shit, we need a cop, and we need it on Adele

Okay, due to the fact that I'm likely going to die, I will reveal it, and to hell with it now.

The Mafia "Thing" says this:

Each night one of you (and only one of you) may target a player and kill them. If you do, you may not use any other night or day choice your role would normally allow you to use until the following night

Wouldn't it be logical that the mafia would use someone WITHOUT a power to make the kill? Thus I was planing to redirect ZONEACE onto either TSQ or Adele (as both are, at present, powerless, and thus candidates for mafia kill). Unfortunatly, this would not work on Sylar (thus I said "Doesn't really confirm a town") unless it was done at a later night to TSQ who would then have power.

Also, ZONEACE (who could be mafia with them) would then reveal YES I FOUND THA KILLER! When his results came up, thinking he could get a town lynched and blame me or someone else for distorting. That way we would have found if Shea/Adele was mafia/Town+sylar.

Now I need to think of something New...fuck.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am here, now that the site isnt taking me 10 minutes per post, I will get caught up over the weekend.

[shaft.ed]

The Mafia "Thing" says this:

Each night one of you (and only one of you) may target a player and kill them. If you do, you may not use any other night or day choice your role would normally allow you to use until the following night

Wouldn't it be logical that the mafia would use someone WITHOUT a power to make the kill? Thus I was planing to redirect ZONEACE onto either TSQ or Adele (as both are, at present, powerless, and thus candidates for mafia kill). Unfortunatly, this would not work on Sylar (thus I said "Doesn't really confirm a town") unless it was done at a later night to TSQ who would then have power.

Also, ZONEACE (who could be mafia with them) would then reveal YES I FOUND THA KILLER! When his results came up, thinking he could get a town lynched and blame me or someone else for distorting. That way we would have found if Shea/Adele was mafia/Town+sylar.

Um you also have Mathcam, Jdodge, CKD, cicero, The Fonz and gorgon available to perform the mafia NK. In other words your plan only works if the mafia team consists of Yvonne, ZA and myself.

[Oman]

Mathcam, Jdodge, CKD, cicero, The Fonz and gorgon

Actually, it only works if the mafia member that performs the kill is whoever I redirect to, but lets look at these.

I forgot Mathcam, thinking he had a power and moved on.

Jdodge is a power the mafia would probably use.

CKD Has another power the mafia would probably use.

Cicero is a toss up, but if I was mafia, I'd probably use it.

The Fonz and Gorgon would both definatly use their powers as mafia, keeping themselves (or their team) safe from Sylar.

I don't know where those three (Yvonne, ZA, and you) came from, becuase I was talking about shea or adele being scum, not any of you three (except where I said the tracker may be).

[shaft.ed]

Shea or Adele doing the kill is even stoopider because neither of them has any business targeting anyone. If they get caught by say a Watcher, what the hell are they going to say?

If JDodge and CKD use their power they are going to have a lot of explaining to do. However if CKD targets someone and they die he's got a lot of explaining to do since that should not be happening so he goes with the Shea/Adele group. Cicero's power is perfect cover for a NK because he doesn't really need any particular reason to target someone. The Fonz won't protect from Sylar so he doesn't have to use his power at all if mafia. Finally Gorgon goes with the Shea/Adele/CKD group as not having a targeting power so he's got a lot of explaining to do if caught. And he is free to kill every other night.

[Oman]

Thats a good point, one that I had not thought of. I suppose it all depends on how scummy the players are (i.e. how likely they are to be tracked).

[curiouskarmadog]

I need to catch up, but a quick review of this page, suggests that again, people are telling other people what to do tonight, interesting. Or suggesting that if they do anything they will be scummy.

...hey I have an idea, why dont we just discuss EXACTLY what we should do so that mafia knows what we are doing so it will be easier for them to plan and discuss their plan of attack tomorrow. Way to lay the groundwork for tomorrow's lynch shafted!

my vote is still solid on shafted

now going to read the last 2-3 pages

[Oman]

I'm going to be deadline Lynched.

There is really nothing I can say except that I found the early cases on me (like asking about my role but saying "i'm town, what should I do" meaning that I'm scum looking for approval) dissapoint me.

[curiouskarmadog]

anyway we can have a deadline extension of 2-3 days?

With the site like it has been for the past 3 days, I have a crap of time trying to get in read pages and post (I dont even want to talk about trying to quote something)..at any rate, would like to get my thoughts out there before the day ends.

[mathcam]

I too was having a hard time connecting to the site in the last couple of days, but it seems to be fine now.

The only thing I've seen in the last couple of pages that's slightly altered my opinion on Oman is that I thought he was completely making up his "plan," but now it seems that he at least believed that he had a good one. Perhaps this is evidence of genuinely pro-town behavior, but it's not clear that we wouldn't have made this attempt as scum, either. I also don't really have a better lynch for today, and so vote stays

Cam

[Oman]

At least if I'm lynched Sylar wont get my power (and the ability to doc protect himself).