Mini 536: Heroes Smalltown. Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

Dodge, please explain what you didn't like about those posts?

I already did

I'm a confirmed townie, the only one I know. Why wouldn't I want to do that?

I dislike the way this is said

By that I assume you mean how he said "I'm a confirmed townie." instead of something along the lines of "I'm the only player I know to be town." If thats the case, I think that's complete bunk.

*gently nudges zoneace*


I asked you some questions, bub. It's not fair of you to all up and leave the thread on me.

[shaft.ed]

His wanting to protect himself using the doc

I'm a confirmed townie, the only one I know. Why wouldn't I want to do that?

You wouldn't want to do that because your powers are of very little threat to the scum and therefore you are incredibly unlikely to be NK'd by mafia. In order to estimate the usefulness of Doc protecting someone you should calculate Probability of Town*Probability of NK. I think your score will be much lower than other players in this game.

You know you cannot verify anyone else's alignment, thus you should not be considering this course of action.

There are other people in this game with powers other than me and Adele, and they can't

all

be scum.

I don't think you are understanding my statement here. The redirection in scum hands corrupts our investigative roles. Therefore by spreading your redirecting powers about, this increases the likelihood that we should not be trusting our investigation results, which effectively removes two town power roles that are even partiallly protown when used by scum until one of the two killing factions is removed from the game.

[davidangelsummers]

lol, I just remembered a scum buddy once told me that Seol and Adele were the same person.. Should get a scum award if thats true (Which it cant be..Silly Dybeck)

Oman

There are other people in this game with powers other than me and Adele, and they can't all be scum.

True, but we cant assume your all telling the truth either..

[Thestatusquo]

They're siblings. Seol and Rainbowbrite are the same person.

[Adele]

I'm the one who's

actually

a girl.

No offence, rb.

shaft.ed's right, I don't think Oman should target me - power's fun and all, but not if it means the town has less useful information, and it would.

Just to be

completely

self obsessed and go through everyone whether my power makes me a good or bad target:
Zindaras: Mohinder Suresh, Networker -

Neutral

; I can't absorb this ability
mathcam: Ted Sprague, Walking Bomb -

Bad

, obv
Oman: Eden McCain, Subliminal Influencer -

Bad

, as it devalues other roles
curiouskarmadog: The man with the horn-rimmed glasses, Jailkeeper -

Neutral

(obviously I'd prefer not, but it doesn't have knock-on effects in terms of my ability)
JDodge: the Haitian, Dampener - Damps my ability to learn.

Bad

, if only town-positive powers are targeting me.
shaft.ed: Nathan Petrelli, Motivator - Potentially really good... I'm gonna say

good

Thestatusquo: Ando Masahashi, Vanilla -

Neutral

ZONEACE: Matt Parkman, Tracker -

Good

.
Gorgon: DL Hawkins, Hider -

Good

YvonneSeer: Claude Rains, Watcher -

Good

davidangelsummers: Daniel Linderman, Doctor -

Good

That's my instinct. Any arguments?
And, yeah, of course the above should only be one factor in their decision. If DAS is worried that someone he thinks is pro-town's in danger of NK, for example, etc etc.

of course, we still have to decide who to lynch...

[shaft.ed]

DL doesn't target anyone, thus Peter can't end up with his power, only Sylar can take it.

I see Peter as a depository for useful town powers, basically a back up in case the initial power holder dies, and of course as an extra "insert power role here" while both are alive. The difficulty is that I think Peter's power is quite useful to Sylar and the only way to protect Peter from Sylar is to lock him in jail which means he can't be targeted. So the problem becomes obvious.

Also as noted previously, investigative roles are best sent towards Peter as they can help the town regardless of Adeles alignment, the Doc will basically not matter if you are scum, and the motivation power could be detrimental if you are mafia aligned.

As far as players go, I think Oman has piled up enought to warrant a vote from me.

vote: Oman

And has anyone seen Zindaras only one post in thread.

[mathcam]

Oman: I think the most important thing is that you don't use your power indiscriminately -- if you feel at some point during the game that you can set up a beautiful trap to catch someone in a lie, then go for it, but take into account the consequences and potential confusion if you're wrong. I'm not sure there's any more guidance anyone can offer.

As for Adele, I think shaft.ed's "depository" point of view is the right one. We should equip her with abilities that are the opposite of the ones I was proposing to go after, ones which would be pretty useless to scum and at least somewhat helpful to the town. On the other hand, there's no sense in loading her up so much that she becomes an immediate target for killing. Actually, I guess there's no way for scum to know which powers she has unless she reveals it, so maybe this isn't as much of a concern.

I think I'm convinced on shaft.ed for now, so

unvote: shaft.ed.

I think I like a

Vote: JDodge

instead -- this is based on a combination of the mild scumminess of JDodge so far and the fact that his role is scum-oriented (which I will use to mean is better for scum than for town as previously described).

Cam

[YvonneSeer]

And what if Adele's scum? Passing on powers means the investigation roles have essentially wasted one night. Also, she would be drawing the doc's protection if we want to give her that power. No, I can't say I like this idea at all.

I'm also not keen on making her a backup either. If she's anti-town, it would give her some sort of safety from being lynched if, say, the original roles got NK-ed and she is the only one left with their powers.

But if we really want to or have to give her some powers, I would suggest giving her only one a night, so the others can still use their powers and we wouldn't be at a total loss. She can only use one power a night anyway, so we could give her the most helpful one on the first night and less important ones on subsequent nights.

[Oman]

In order to estimate the usefulness of Doc protecting someone you should calculate Probability of Town*Probability of NK. I think your score will be much lower than other players in this game.

That works for me.

True, but we cant assume your all telling the truth either..

Yeah.

Mathcam is right, I shouldn't use my power N1 (based on my previous N1 experience).

investigative roles are best sent towards Peter as they can help the town regardless of Adeles alignment

Please explain this.

[Thestatusquo]

Yeah...False results can easily be given which could end up hurting the town. Bad news.

[Adele]

True, but it'd be a dangerous game to play. The potential contradiction between my results, Claudes, and Matt's, mean it's beneficial for town to have a third party. If Claude or Matt is scum, they'd have to be a

lot

more careful in the scenario where I can copy either of them. It could come down to, for example, "either Adele or zoneace is lying", but that's quite a useful situation for town. In fact, since there's no lepton here, the semicop powers have only the power of contradiction - and knowing that one of two people is lying is beneficial to town.

If you're dumb enough to follow any cop unthinkingly, then that's bad, though - if you include me in the calcs, then with 3 semicops, we'd "expect" exactly 1 scum.

[ZONEACE]

Just for the record, I'm not scum.

[Oman]

if you include me in the calcs, then with 3 semicops, we'd "expect" exactly 1 scum.

I don't get how you come to this conclusion. You could all be scum.

[Adele]

I'm using the mathematical "expect"; on average over a course of games, 1 scum among the three of us would be the average. (I may have gotten the maths wrong, but that's a different story).

My point was not that there's most likely to be exactly one scum, but that there's a better-than-even chance that at least one of us is scum.

Thanks for the heads-up, zoneace. If we can get everyone to commit like that, the game's in the bag

[Oman]

Oh I see Adele.

[Thestatusquo]

Just for the record, I'm not scum.

Confirm vote: Zoneface

Then perhaps you'd like to answer the questions I asked you which you are now blatantly ignoring.

[ZONEACE]

Could you be a little more desperate? I mean really. We all know you're a jack ass that likes to harass me, lets try not to make this person ok?

[shaft.ed]

OK I have no record of harassing you. Can you answer TSQ's question please?

[Gorgon]

I agree with JDodge about Oman's self protecting comment. There is very very little chance the mafia would target him tonight, redirecting Doc protection to him would be quite a waste IMO.

I agree. Seeing that Linderman doesn't protect from Sylar, Linderman only protects from mafia. Therefore he should protect people whom he deems to have a high (townish)*(useful to town factor) ... i.e. if he's town. If Linderman is scum, he's completely useless.

Mathcam is right, I shouldn't use my power N1 (based on my previous N1 experience).

I'm inclined to agree with this as well. There probably won't be enough to go on to make a good judgement call N1, and the potential to fuck things up is too high.

I agree with TSQ on ZA btw. ZA hasn't contributed much of value so far.

[Thestatusquo]

Could you be a little more desperate? I mean really. We all know you're a jack ass that likes to harass me, lets try not to make this person ok?

What the hell dude? I don't care if you're the president of Brazil, if you blatantly ignore me, I am going to vote you. I asked you very relevant questions 3 days ago, and bumped them, so that you couldn't possibly miss them if you were reading the thread. I even added "gentle nudge" to the text of said questions. Then you posted a trite pointless, contentless reply (which I find a tad scummy too) instead of responding to me. I am NOT being unreasonable here.

[Adele]

actually, I think TSQ's being a bit over-aggressive here. His questions to zoneace comes down to a barked order to post more and post better, yet his most recent post implies to the casual observer (ie me, before I ran TSQ's post record) that Zoneace was asked specific questions about his behaviour and asked to make account for them.

Really? So you dont think Mathcams system is worth discussing? Why not? Also, I wonder what you could have possibly noticed that you do not feel like sharing. Isn't it generally in the towns best interests to share all information that they have? I mean, in general the only thing I don't like to bring up are breadcrumbing and stuff like that, but thats not exactly RELEVANT in this game, is it?

This seems more like a rant than a list of questions that TSQ burningly wants to hear the answer to.

If you want Zoneace to contribute more - and that might be justified - then make it clear that it's

that

that you're asking for. But his posts, while short and not hugely contributory, have been reasonably regular, and seem adequate for this stage of the game. I think you seem overly hyper, tsq, and overly pissed-off at others who are merely moderate.

[shaft.ed]

investigative roles are best sent towards Peter as they can help the town regardless of Adeles alignment

Please explain this.

This sentence doesn't read as I intended it. It looks like I'm saying "It's a good thing to send investigative powers to Adele." What I meant by that was: "Of the powers that can be sent to Adele, the investigative ones would be the most beneficial to the town."

[Thestatusquo]

actually, I think TSQ's being a bit over-aggressive here. His questions to zoneace comes down to a barked order to post more and post better, yet his most recent post implies to the casual observer (ie me, before I ran TSQ's post record) that Zoneace was asked specific questions about his behaviour and asked to make account for them.

Really? So you dont think Mathcams system is worth discussing? Why not? Also, I wonder what you could have possibly noticed that you do not feel like sharing. Isn't it generally in the towns best interests to share all information that they have? I mean, in general the only thing I don't like to bring up are breadcrumbing and stuff like that, but thats not exactly RELEVANT in this game, is it?

This seems more like a rant than a list of questions that TSQ burningly wants to hear the answer to.

If you want Zoneace to contribute more - and that might be justified - then make it clear that it's

that

that you're asking for. But his posts, while short and not hugely contributory, have been reasonably regular, and seem adequate for this stage of the game. I think you seem overly hyper, tsq, and overly pissed-off at others who are merely moderate.

I think thats a load of crap, adele. Regardless of how I delivered questions to him (and I disagree with you that it was in an unacceptable fashion.) the fact remains that I not only asked him questions, but then brought them up later on in a way which was not confrontational at all. Regardless of how I phrased the questions, it was a DIRECT request for input, which Zoneace ignored.

[Adele]

whoa. I think you're a smidge OTT, not "unacceptable".

I'm all about the love, here.

To answer your point, I don't think your questions necessarily needed an answer. They're exactly the sort I'd pose as an IC to newbies who "don't know what to say". They start on matters that weren't all that contentious, and move on to nonspecific policy matters (you say "general" twice, for example).

At this point, I don't think it scummy of Zoneace to have declined to reply. For example, the question "What have you noticed that you don't want to tell me" comes off as downright rhetorical - why on earth would he tell you, if he doesn't want you to know?

Eh, my points are small and my posts are big so I'll stop now.

[Thestatusquo]

I asked him several questions...If it would please you for me to list them out, I will:

1) Does he not consider mathcams voting system worth talking about?
2) If so, why not?
3) In a theoretical sense, give me an example of something that you would not disclose d1 when you already know everyones roles.
4) I generally wanted a reply to my suggestion that "perhaps he was just saying he saw stuff that he didn't." in order to make it look like he was being more active and helpful in this game than he really was. It's a tactic I've seen scum use many times. Say things like "Oh...I've already got 3 concrete scumtells." Well, if you do indeed, what reason is there you would not like to share them with the rest of the town. If zoneace really has noticed something, it would probably be beneficial to get it out there and help the town achieve a non random d1 lynch, or, as I see as HIGHLY more likely, zoneace is talking bollocks, in which case, I plan to make him todays non random lynch.