Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[MeMe]

Got it.

[MeMe]

So we're waiting on The Jester and vellon to confirm? When/if they do, should we just start playing or do we wait for you, Jenter?

Also, can we get a player list in the first post?

[MeMe]

vote: The Jester

[MeMe]

Not knowing if we have 12 players is, apparently, putting us into a holding pattern.

I'll explain that my vote for the The Jester is based on the fact that he's been online since the roles went out so I'm assuming he received the directive to confirm in thread but hasn't done so.

[MeMe]

Aren't we waiting on vellon as well? Why just vote for Jester and not even mention vellon?

To answer your first question: I actually was the first to mention the fact that we were waiting on vellon (even before the moderator). To answer your second: see the "I'll explain" sentence in my last post.

So...why ask two questions for which replies had already been provided, neko?

[MeMe]

Well, it's true that I didn't spell it out the difference, but I thought it was obvious. When someone says "A & B are missing, but I see that A has been elsewhere so that's why I choose him," doesn't that imply that B

hasn't

been seen elsewhere?

And of course it's not wrong to ask for clarification, but it looked weird to me when I was clear in the first place.

So...what's the word on our missing players,

mod

?

Have

they picked up their roles? If so, can you prod them? If not can we get replacements pronto?

[MeMe]

unvote: The Jester
vote: RideTheBomb

[MeMe]

I'm getting extremely annoyed.

[MeMe]

Fair warning

: currently, I'm limiting myself to one game at a time due to demanding work hours. If our mod doesn't show some interest in running this game within a couple of days, I'm not going to bother treading water here. There are plenty of other mods I'd rather be playing for.

[MeMe]

Well, the unfortunate truth is that everyone

does

have an excuse not to post at this point. We don't have to start discussion to know that The Jester & vellon are not being active -- the lack of confirmation & Jenter's subsequent "looking for replacements" post took care of that.

[MeMe]

you guys can't blame jenter for the lameness of this game given that he's 1) replaced both inactives...and let me say that 2 inactives in a 12 person game is about normal 2) nobody seems to be posting.

Um...it was the fact that he started the game when two people hadn't confirmed that

caused

the lameness of the early posting, in my opinion. Mass prods letting everyone know that we've had replacements, an update of the player list in the first post to reflect the replacements, and vote counts would also encourage activity.

Although I'm not interested in continuing to flog the mod, it is a ridiculous assertion that Jenter isn't largely to blame for the game's slow start.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyway, I think this is right.

Count

:

Archaist

(3):

neko2086, soupfly, gorckat

McStab

(2):

Deathguise, Selande

neko2086

(2):

Sammich, SirWario

Selande

(1):

McStab

RideTheBomb

(1):

MeMe

not voting

(3):

Archaist, RideTheBomb, Sikario8

[MeMe]

I'm still rather liking

my

vote.

[MeMe]

Unvote

Are you all still random voting?
If not some explanations for your votes might give us something to discuss.

Is this directed at me? If so, why don't you "give us something to discuss" by explaining the reason for your lack of current vote? Or why not attempt to figure out what could cause a vote to be placed and discuss

that

?

Basically, why place it at my feet to keep the game going when, looking over your posts, you aren't doing your part?

Meme, why do you like your vote. Is it because of ridethebomb's omgus vote on you?

Well, that didn't make me

sad

to be voting him.

[MeMe]

Neko, I'm voting for MeMe because she's voting for me. So MeMe, why did you vote for me?

You deserve it.

Mod Vote Count

:
Archaist (1): soupfly
neko2086 (2): Sammich, SirWario
Selande (1): McStab
RideTheBomb (1): MeMe
MeMe (2): RidetheBomb, gorckat

not voting: Archaist, Sikario8, Selande, Deathguise, neko2806

[MeMe]

You know, people lynch me for that sort of play aaaaalll the time.

There's no reason to bring your playstyle into this, really. I don't know if you're using this for a voucher for future scum play or whatever the hell, but I don't believe there's any reason for metagame discussion right now.

Interesting.

[MeMe]

Players who have made absolutely

no

real contribution to the game so far: Deathguise, McStab, RideTheBomb.

Am I wrong?

[MeMe]

And what exactly did I do to deserve it?

Read your posts and explain to me why you

don't

deserve to be voted.

[MeMe]

Oh, brother. Classic example of why I hate the wiki.

I didn't say he was scum. I said he deserves to be voted. Do you

not

the think the burden of being non-voteworthy is his?

[MeMe]

Well, if you want to keep going in circles over here that's fine with me. Read my posts and explain to me why I deserve to be voted.

Do you really think I'm going in a circle? I believe

you're

being obtuse in your unwillingness to simply take a look at your posts and either say "oops -- yeah, I guess I

do

deserve a vote" or "nope -- and here's why."

I'll go ahead and show you (and everyone else who hasn't bothered to check you out).

When I voted you, your sole post was...

Confirm

I switched my vote to you because, unlike the other two non-posters at that point, there was

no

question of you receiving your role since you'd confirmed in the thread. The fact that you put this up just two posts after my vote switch...

MeMe and Gorckat, we meet again.

...pretty much confirmed your presence and non-excusability for your lack of help for the nearly 7 days the game had been declared open by the mod.

Your next post -- 5+ days after your last -- was...

Vote: MeMe

Good to see this is finally getting rolling.

Awesome. An OMGUS and a comment that's just plain weird -- seems like an "about time" sentiment, when you were a big part of the problem.

Then, you posted...

Neko, I'm voting for MeMe because she's voting for me. So MeMe, why did you vote for me?

...in which you explain your vote is OMGUS and act interested in my reasons for voting you more than 8 days prior.

Your three posts since that time have all been variations on "what did I do?" The fairly obvious answer to that query is "absolutely nothing."

So -- who thinks my vote is ill-placed?

[MeMe]

RTB, MeMe, gorkat, soupfly, Wario, what do you think of my voting sammich?

Nothing.

[MeMe]

Making votes on "secret information" is something only the Mafia can do in reality, as only they have any extra info about who is Town and who is Scum when starting the game.

So, in your opinion, town would never attempt to keep mafia in the dark?

[MeMe]

Just because a basis isn't exposed doesn't mean it doesn't exist -- and soupfly specified that he saw something after the last post. Did you check that last post and come up empty? Or did you vote soupfly without bothering to see if you might agree with him?

Please note: I still like my votee over neko -- I just hate the position that town players aren't allowed to play close to the vest (generic across-all-games feeling, not an endorsement of soupfly's alignment). Yes, hold everyone accountable for their posts, but sometimes a little time before explanation can shake more loose than telling your object of suspicion -- and anyone else reading the thread -- exactly why you're doing what you're doing.

[MeMe]

If you read my post #157, you would know that answer.

Well now I just feel stupid.

[MeMe]

Deathguise, McStab, and Selande haven't.

[MeMe]

Mod

-- what's the progress on the replacement/prods?

(sigh)

[MeMe]

Good evening boys & girls. I'm your substitute bumper today.

[MeMe]

I'd rather lynch a non-participant as well...problem is that more than half of the players (7) in this game have been absent for at least a week and 5 of those haven't posted since November.

Even our

mod

hasn't been here for more than a week. I don't think this game is worth playing, quite frankly. The five of us who have posted in the last few days should just go sign up for the next mini game. Deal?

[MeMe]

Meme, are you willing to give Jenter another chance?

Sure -- until the game's officially dead, I'll stick. It's weird to be the one in charge of "calling" mini games when I'm in one that's looking near-death, but I'd not do it until the general consensus is that it's no longer salvageable .

I'm eager to see who turns up during Jenter's 48-hour posting deadline.

[MeMe]

I'm fighting off a fever atm

So I need to replace Mcstab and deathguise, and the rest of you (particularly Selande, Arch, Wario and Soup) need to up the posting a bit.

Ok, I'll get looking for replacements now.

Process of deduction says that Pra is in for Sammich.

~still kinda twiddling, but am certainly more hopeful~

[MeMe]

Is Selande not being replaced?

[MeMe]

He, and MeMe, need prods

You're right.

Family finally leaves my house tomorrow morning, so I make a solemn promise: I will do a complete read and get back to my usual active self tomorrow.

Sorry for briefly morphing into that which I loathe.

[MeMe]

It's surprising how LONG a reread of an inactive game can take! I'm still not quite done (I read through -- took notes -- still going to go through each player's posts alone real quick to make sure my thoughts hold), but because it's getting late I wanted to post quickly to let you all know I'm keeping my promise and should have substance up within the hour.

And because I doublechecked it for my own edification -- I'll share the current correct vote count:

Guardian

(2) -

MeMe, Pra a Funkee Home Sapien

neko2086

(2) -

soupfly, Tarhalindur

soupfly

(2) -

Archaist, SirWario

Gorgon

(1) -

gorckat

Sikario8

(1) -

neko2086

SirWario

(1) -

Guardian

not voting

(3) -

Arakorn, Gorgon, Sikario8

[MeMe]

Mod

: could we get some clarification on how your deadlines work? Is a full vote count necessary for a lynch, just whoever has the most at deadline, or what? And at what time of day (please include time zone) will it hit?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK.

unvote: Guardian
vote: Pra a Funkee Homo Sapien

I almost hate to do that because he currently has no votes and we're on deadline. I do see merit in a neko2086 vote and will probably switch to him if no one agrees with me here, but right now I've got to put my top suspect out there for discussion and see what happens.

Here are the highlights:

First, while Sammich had the role

--Posts 24, 32, 41, 46, and 50 so lightweight that I barely noticed them when they were happening, but when read anew they feel like he was making an

effort

to come off as active but harmless in the early game.
--Post 68, he votes neko with decent reasoning
--Post 104, he commiserates with the metaplay woes and then turns around and accuses soupfly for sharing them.
--Post 155, so well done -- but where was this dude up to now? Basically acts as a spotlight on the smarts he's been hiding.
--Post 168, made me laugh. He claims to have found "Nothing. Absolutely nothing." on Sikario...seeing as Sik's weird three-post SirWario rant had just occurred, I'm rather surprised he didn't at least comment on

that

. Regardless, Sikario hadn't been silent and I found a few items to note -- claiming absence of stuff to examine came off as less than genuine.

Since Pra has taken over

Well, it's easy enough to click his name in the dropdown list and just read his contributions. Not helpful.

So. Whaddya think?

[MeMe]

Tarhalindur = Selande

[MeMe]

Deadline means we're kind of in a

hurry

.

[MeMe]

I'm wondering why you bring his vote on me into it. You yourself seem inclined to start voting for me, so why is his vote for me in your commentary, especially if he used "decent reasoning?" The rest of your list seemed to have something that would try to implicate him as scum, but that point is empty and seems more pro-town than anything. Did I miss something?

My list was "highlights" of what he'd supplied. Lots of fluff, a post that's

not

fluff, more fluff, another (post 155) that's rather well-done....

Why

wouldn't

I bring up those posts that might not "fit" with the others? See, in my opinion, they only make it more suspicious that he did them so rarely when he obviously possesses the ability to analyze -- but others may have a different take on what they mean. So, do you have a different take on what they mean, neko?

[MeMe]

Just a wave -- still paying attention here & looking forward to Tar's follow-up thoughts and DR's take on the game.

[MeMe]

Incredibly so.

[MeMe]

unvote: Pra

No reason to hang on under deadline when it's clear there's no other support for it today. At the moment, SirWario has two & soupfly has two. We've got to get someone to at least three before deadline -- about 6 days from now (in case anyone's still unclear).

I'm generally opposed to suspicion lists because they seem to simply help scum know who to keep around. Why not everyone simply state ONE suspect rather than three? That should focus discussion a bit.

Other than Pra, the one I had the most negative notes about after my reread was neko.

Also -- just a warning -- my anniversary is the 12th and I'll be out of town for the weekend to celebrate, which means I'll miss deadline. I will definitely vote before that time, but just wanted to give a heads-up.

[MeMe]

I don't like the idea of a soupfly lynch, but I could get on board with lynching Arakorn.

[MeMe]

And, as a matter of fact --

vote: Arakorn

[MeMe]

I will wagon whomever needs to be wagonned to lynch. At this point, I just want this fucking game to go to night so that something will happen.

Hear hear.

[MeMe]

"Let's just lynch anyone and hope day ends" is not what the dude said and is not what I agreed with. The day will end, with or without a lynch, and it's better for it to be WITH a lynch. Do you disagree?

I'll switch my vote at deadline if that's what

necessary

to ensure a lynch. That's not my

preference

, but I'll do it if that's what has to be done to make sure we get some information.

[MeMe]

"Let's just lynch anyone and hope day ends" is not what the dude said and is not what I agreed with.

MeMe, you quoted his

whole post

and said "hear hear" implying agreement with his post:

I will wagon whomever needs to be wagonned to lynch.

At this point, I just want this fucking game to go to night so that something will happen

.

Hear hear.

(emphasis mine)

The latter sentiment, which you also approved of, is what I find troubling -- "wanting the game to go to night" is an excuse to lynch anyone convenient. Do you

not

agree with his whole post?

Alright, I get what you're on about now.

First: I didn't quote his whole post -- but I do agree with the parts I did quote, though I seem to interpret them differently than you do. You seem to be reading the whole thing as an action plan & I'm reading it as an assurance & a statement of frustration. So, basically, I'm saying "me too" to wagoning to ensure a lynch AND being tired of this endless nothing-happening day. To be clear: I was not saying that I was interested in a pre-deadline lynch (something I think would be pretty impossible anyway -- seven needed votes??).

As for why I'm voting Arakorn? Because, at the time I voted him -- soupfly was the leading votee & I do

not

like the idea of a soupfly lynch. gorckat suggested Arakorn as a possibility and, since I find him to be completely useless, I thought "alrighty then." He might claim to have lots of school work, but he

also

claims to have read the thread and to have (at least at the point I voted him) no leading suspects.

And, for the record, I do NOT want Jenter to extend the deadline. The only thing that seems to have sparked

any

activity in this game is the threat of pending deadline -- take that away, and I think we'll go right back down to "almost dead" status.

[MeMe]

Loaded language much, neko?

1) "simply because you find him useless" -- indicates both that it's only my opinion, rather than fact, that he's been unhelpful AND that useless isn't that big of a deal
2) "really think" -- indicates that I might have, at this point, acted contrary to my actual thoughts
3) "not care whether or not" -- well, I don't even need to explain that to anyone

Let me ask

you

: do you really think that being present but unwilling to pick a leading suspect when 1) everyone's been asked to do so and 2) it's been pointed out we're under deadline is

townish

behavior? Or could it be scum waiting to be "convinced" by other players so that he need not make a decision for which he must take responsibility? (Bear in mind that Arakorn has since voted gorckat -- but only after Guardian called his post "remarkably like scum talk.")

Or -- in words you might more readily recognize: do you really think that players have no responsibility to be helpful? I mean, do you really think that Arakorn is town? Do you not care if he's scum?

[MeMe]

I don't appreciate being mocked.

I apologize if that hurt your feelings, neko -- I thought it was appropriate to show you how hard it is to respond to a string of questions worded the way you worded them. Sounds more like an attack than an actual desire for

answers

right?

[MeMe]

After last night, I'm pretty damn sure that the Arakorn wagon was a scumwagon.

Vote: MeMe
LOCK ON: MeMe

Please be specific as to what time period you're referencing with the phrase "after last night": the end of Day 1 or actual

Night

1? Pretty important that you're clear.

Meme, I've notice that throughout D1, you had absolutely nothing to say about Sikario/DR. Any particular reason?

Not true. Witness post #284

168, made me laugh. He claims to have found "Nothing. Absolutely nothing." on Sikario...seeing as Sik's weird three-post SirWario rant had just occurred, I'm rather surprised he didn't at least comment on

that

. Regardless, Sikario hadn't been silent and I found a few items to note -- claiming absence of stuff to examine came off as less than genuine.

[MeMe]

1) I

was

voting
2) It wasn't necessary for me to switch my vote to ensure a lynch
3)

Also -- just a warning -- my anniversary is the 12th and I'll be out of town for the weekend to celebrate, which means I'll miss deadline. I will definitely vote before that time, but just wanted to give a heads-up.

[MeMe]

Um. Dur.

[MeMe]

I have to admit, if I were anyone but me, I'd advocate my lynch today as the most useful. Mason with a "confirmed" innocent partner and "confirmed" sanity is easily disproved with my death.

However, I simply cannot just roll over for the "good of the town" since 1) I'm not scum and 2) for scum to try a gambit like this -- they must be close to being able to win this thing.

My thought process right now: Tar's claimed role (confirmed sanity AND someone who can confirm his innocence) is

so

strong that a mafia group would have to be equally strong -- four "regulars" in a night start...probably four with added powers (i.e. no goons -- tracker, role cop, doctor, vote controller, double night-killer, etc.) in the day start we had. I'm having a hard time buying that scenario.

So, what I advocate is that the "partner" exposes himself now so that, if I do wind up today's lynchee, at least there are two scum outed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

To answer neko: the very first note I made on this game was that vellon (soupfly) was probably not scum based on the fact he'd not confirmed AND he'd been completely absent from the site since the roles went out. If I were scum, I would've demanded replacement for a non-responsive partner pre-game. Since Jenter started the game without vellon even (apparently) getting his role, I think he's more than likely town.

[MeMe]

Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

I am a Mason-Cop (mod-confirmed Sane, and my masonry is mod-confirmed innocent).

So you want (assuming Tar is right) expose another powerful townie for nightkill? My opinion is (still) that we lynch MeMe today, and if he isn't scum, we lynch Tar next time instead.

Well, like I said, I'd probably agree with this if I didn't know he was lying. But, since I do, I have to give my opinion as to what's the best way to get as much information as possible.

i don't agree because tar's claim is pretty sound when you consider that 1) he wasn't in danger of being lynched 2) there's no cop counterclaim and 3) the timing doesn't fit a scum play.

Which is precisely why I pointed out...

for scum to try a gambit like this -- they must be close to being able to win this thing.

i wouldn't out the mason in this case, though i also don't think somebody calling for the other mason to come out is necessarily scum. i think its all a matter of how much you believe tar's claim.

And I, of course, disbelieve it 100%.

[MeMe]

And, actually, we haven't had everyone check in to see if there's "no cop counter-claim" yet.

And, actually, I'd prefer a cop NOT counter-claim. No reason for him to out himself when my death (or Tar's) will show up the lie.

[MeMe]

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

Absolutely. And don't anyone

dare

let him. I can just envision a "she must have been a miller!" defense tomorrow. I've confirmed with the mod that I should turn up town to any sane investigator.

I will reiterate my concern that the attempt at using this gambit at this time indicates a boldness that only a player close to winning should have.

[MeMe]

~shrugs~

Things look waaaaaaayyyyy different from my chair.

[MeMe]

Well, I had to try.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope this is clear -- don't act until you've talked it out, please!

M1: rudni
M2: rudni+
S: nk

bump merge to 3 (think).

vote: MeMe

[MeMe]

Day Dawns....

Everyone wants to lynch the last scum. Tarhalindur comes in by bus, Pra drives in by car, Javert rides a horse, and mikeburnfire comes on a unicycle*. Everyone's desperte to be here!

But will they manage to kill the last scum today..?

* Neko rode a giant fish, but nobody noticed that.

Sent to Javert after the above morning post, which completely robbed him of the argument that there could be more than one scum/scum group left (for which he'd already laid the groundwork):

If you win this, you're the

mastah

.

I mean...wow. Any game with you in it is automatically exalted to a higher level.

[MeMe]

Sorry! That was meant to highlight Javert's awesomeness, not your post -- indeed, I wasn't even sure it WAS an error on your part. The way the game was leaning at the time, I thought it might be part of the set-up!

[MeMe]

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