Mini 527 - Doom in Valencia - Game Over!

[Arakorn]

So you want (assuming Tar is right) expose another powerful townie for nightkill? My opinion is (still) that we lynch MeMe today, and if he isn't scum, we lynch Tar next time instead.

[soupfly]

So, what I advocate is that the "partner" exposes himself now so that, if I do wind up today's lynchee, at least there are two scum outed.

i don't agree because tar's claim is pretty sound when you consider that 1) he wasn't in danger of being lynched 2) there's no cop counterclaim and 3) the timing doesn't fit a scum play.

i wouldn't out the mason in this case, though i also don't think somebody calling for the other mason to come out is necessarily scum. i think its all a matter of how much you believe tar's claim.

You assert that Tar's role is so powerful that the mafia would have to be amped up for balance purposes. I disagree, as the mechanics of the game make things unpredictable-- it's why I didn't immediately vote you. I think that judgment is this game is off because we're all drunk. Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

However, it bothers me that you immediately assume he's a lying scum and are trying to predict the mafia's setup based on it. I'll probably end up voting for you.

you realize this isn't alcoholics anonymous mafia!? i think you got the two games convinced cause we're not all supposed to be drunk.

[soupfly]

final though on the second mason, if tar has a dual role (cop+mason) then it stands to reason that the other mason may also have a dual role making them all the more valuable. so again, i don't want the second mason to claim.

[mikeburnfire]

you realize this isn't alcoholics anonymous mafia!? i think you got the two games convinced cause we're not all supposed to be drunk.

Sorry about that. I replaced into this game and that game at the same time and they're mixing together in my mind.

[Javert]

Bonjour!

I am replacing Archaist. I shall read the game tout de suite.

[MeMe]

Tar could be an insane cop or paranoid cop while under the influence.

I am a Mason-Cop (mod-confirmed Sane, and my masonry is mod-confirmed innocent).

So you want (assuming Tar is right) expose another powerful townie for nightkill? My opinion is (still) that we lynch MeMe today, and if he isn't scum, we lynch Tar next time instead.

Well, like I said, I'd probably agree with this if I didn't know he was lying. But, since I do, I have to give my opinion as to what's the best way to get as much information as possible.

i don't agree because tar's claim is pretty sound when you consider that 1) he wasn't in danger of being lynched 2) there's no cop counterclaim and 3) the timing doesn't fit a scum play.

Which is precisely why I pointed out...

for scum to try a gambit like this -- they must be close to being able to win this thing.

i wouldn't out the mason in this case, though i also don't think somebody calling for the other mason to come out is necessarily scum. i think its all a matter of how much you believe tar's claim.

And I, of course, disbelieve it 100%.

[MeMe]

And, actually, we haven't had everyone check in to see if there's "no cop counter-claim" yet.

And, actually, I'd prefer a cop NOT counter-claim. No reason for him to out himself when my death (or Tar's) will show up the lie.

[Javert]

First things first.

Mod

, what kind of Godfather was Dead Rikimaru / Sikario8? Did he have investigative immunity? Nightkill immunity? Something else?

Based on the information in the front post that Guardian was a Townie and Dead Rikimaru / Sikario8 was a (the) Godfather, my gut was telling me through Day One (alphabetically):

Likely Town

neko2086
gorckat

Middle

Arakorn (McStab)
Gorgon (Deathguise)
MeMe
Pra a Funkee Homo Sapien (Sammich)

Scummy

mikeburnfire [SirWario (The Jester)]
soupfly (vellon)
Tarhalindur (Selande)

~~~~~

Naturally, my view on Tarhalindur has just completely flipped itself. His actions at the end of yesterday – which were to protest the Dead Rikimaru lynch and to vote Guardian (townie) certainly did not look good to me, as well as his list of three players he thought were scum: {neko2086, Archaist (me), and gorckat}. Seeing as how I thought both neko2086 and gorckat were town, and I know I am town,

everything

he was doing seemed completely wrong.

Although that still weighs on my mind, I will give him the benefit of the doubt today for a few very simple reasons.

1.)

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

2.)

He has claimed to be part of a Masonry – and not just any Masonry, but a mod-confirmed innocent Masonry. This means that if Tarhalindur were lying, he would be banking on not

only

there not being a Cop, but

also

in there not being a Masonry.

3.)

If

he is lying, the town is not put very far back from one mislynch. Assuming this game has 3 mafia and no other scum (although it is too early to tell if that is the case), the town already has a substantial lead in that the GF is dead, and we have only lost a townie. The town loses little by playing a war of attrition: if we trade town for scum at a 1:3 ratio, we still win the game.

4.)

We can be absolutely sure that at least one of {Tarhalindur, MeMe} is scum. Of the two, the more useful role to keep alive if one of them is town would undoubtedly be Tarhalindur.

I will vote MeMe after I feel we have had enough discussion. I also agree that at this time, I do not feel it is necessary for Tar's Mason partner (should one exist) to claim.

[petroleumjelly]

And naturally I err in alphabetizing. That first portion should read:

Likely Town

gorckat
neko2086

[petroleumjelly]

And more naturally I forget I had logged on to this account. What a day.

[MeMe]

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

Absolutely. And don't anyone

dare

let him. I can just envision a "she must have been a miller!" defense tomorrow. I've confirmed with the mod that I should turn up town to any sane investigator.

I will reiterate my concern that the attempt at using this gambit at this time indicates a boldness that only a player close to winning should have.

[Javert]

Your concern is noted, but with the current state of the town -- that being a dead Godfather and a dead Townie -- I find it difficult to believe any faction besides the town is "close to winning".

[MeMe]

~shrugs~

Things look waaaaaaayyyyy different from my chair.

[gorckat]

Checking in. One of my dogs died so I haven't been up to playing, but wow. I hope to be on either tonight or sometime tomorrow.

I'm inclined to believe the cop claim and MeMe's guilt, but haven't done that re-read yet. I'll be back soon, I hope.

[mikeburnfire]

He has claimed mod-confirmed sanity as a Cop. This means that he has absolutely no way to backtrack if MeMe comes up innocent.

Absolutely. And don't anyone

dare

let him. I can just envision a "she must have been a miller!" defense tomorrow. I've confirmed with the mod that I should turn up town to any sane investigator.

Death-Miller-Scum? A scum that appears innocent upon investigation and death? And wants to get lynched so we lynch our cop? That's the feeling that I get. But that would be silly. And bastardmodding.

vote: MeMe

[MeMe]

Well, I had to try.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hope this is clear -- don't act until you've talked it out, please!

M1: rudni
M2: rudni+
S: nk

bump merge to 3 (think).

vote: MeMe

[Arakorn]

Uhm, can you vote for yourself? In that case we have 5 votes for MeMe, otherwise:
Tally:

MeMe: (4) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, mikeburnfire)

[soupfly]

Uhm, can you vote for yourself? In that case we have 5 votes for MeMe, otherwise:
Tally:

MeMe: (4) (Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, mikeburnfire)

i believe its a lynch with 6 votes:

Tarhalindur, Soupfly, Arakorn, neko, mikeburnfire, meme

besides, meme just admitted she's scum.

[Arakorn]

Well yes but self votes don't count, or do they? Damn, must've missed Neko's vote...

[neko2086]

self votes count. tAre there any rules for talking during twilight in this game? I'm not sure Jenter ever gave us clear rules.

[Gorgon]

Bah, lynch already. Self-vote at that. That makes me inclined to believe that MeMe is actually scum, but it is interesting to note that Tarhalindur has claimed mason-cop in another game that I'm with him in. I therefore don't buy his claim 100%.

[Tarhalindur]

Now the question is, which one(s) of {Mikeburnfire, soupfly, gorgon} is MeMe's partner?

Harder to answer, that question is.

[Javert]

Merveilleux. This is why one should hold off voting until discussion is finished. I would have liked to have more thoughts, and been able to read the thread more thoroughly before a lynch formally occurred.

Tip for tomorrow

: If Tarhalindur and his mason partner (should he have one) are both alive tomorrow with an innocent investigation, I would suggest

against

revealing it for the following reasons:

1.)

The investigation will likely not be "lost" even if Tarhalindur is killed, since the result will also be known to his partner.

2.)

We may lose valuable information about what people think of the innocent player. (In this respect, I also believe the guilty result on MeMe should have been staved off a while longer, since doing so would have been infinitely more informative).

3.)

If necessary, Tarhalindur could reveal his result at any time

if

he feels that innocent player is in danger of being lynched.

[Tarhalindur]

At this point, I'm pretty sure that four other players are town (I won't elaborate exactly who at this time, since one of these is the other mason), and I'm leaning town on one other. Considering that I know that I am town, that leaves three players that I consider likely candidates for being scum (Mikeburnfire, soupfly, and Gorgon).

As an aside, the reason I claimed as quickly as I did was because mikeburnfire and soupfly (two of my top suspects at this point) both responded to my vote by attacking me (CLASSIC SCUM REACTION). That's pretty damn informative, IMO.

[mikeburnfire]

At this point, I'm pretty sure that four other players are town (I won't elaborate exactly who at this time, since one of these is the other mason), and I'm leaning town on one other. Considering that I know that I am town, that leaves three players that I consider likely candidates for being scum (Mikeburnfire, soupfly, and Gorgon).

I know this is going to seem like scum trying to fish, but who do you think are innocent and why. I'm not asking to reveal your masonpartner, but why do you think the others are clean? There's no reason to be candid about it, especially since you could very well die tonight.