Newbie 470: Trouble at Mount Excitement - Mafia Wins!

[Joubert]

Party Everyone! It's Mount Excitement after all...

[Joubert]

Is there such a thing as a "better" random vote?
Look, my random vote is better:

Vote: Malrokin

Now, be afraid of my magnificent randomness!

[Joubert]

It's Mount Excitement after all...

[Joubert]

It was the same randomness as usual. If someone ends up voting for you non-randomly and put you at lynch -1, then yes, you should start worrying and talk your way out. As for now, nothing serious. Yet, my random vote could have fallen on Happiest Sadist or Dark Lady, and this would put him or her in an uncomfortable position...

At first glance, I would vote No Lynch at the beginning, since we have absolutely no clue, but it seems like it's normal practice to random vote until we get some more information...

[Joubert]

By the way, Dark Lady:

Yeah......voting for me is surprisingly informative......Either the two of you are messing with me, or your scum together..... I shall go with the former for the time being.

Do you mind sharing about how it's "surprisingly informative"?
Weren't they random votes like everyone?

And I poke Charms86 because she looks too quiet...

[Joubert]

ShadowLurker, what do you mean by...

Happy with my vote.

Huh?

If you can't answer that I'll... I'll... Well, I don't know what I'll do next...
I'm out of ideas...

[Joubert]

Let's get some excitement in here, and I thought I noticed him do something scummy, but I forgot.

If it's the case, you can simply go back and read the previous posts. When this is done, let us know what he did scummy...

[Joubert]

Okay, now if my counting is exact, ShadowLurker is in danger at lynch -1. It's been almost 3 days since he last posted. Do we need a replacement?

[Joubert]

According to the last official vote count, yes, but some votes were switched since then...

[Joubert]

What exactly do you mean by 'claims'?

Claiming usually refers to when you reveal your role...
See Roleclaim in the Wiki...

[Joubert]

In the last few posts, there are two things I'm not sure I understand. They're from Happiest Sadist's last intervention. He talked about "faint praise". What's a "faint praise"? And where did it occur? The other one is "subtext". Not sure what the word means either...

[Joubert]

Okay, let's get this straight: who is scum?[/dice]

[Joubert]

You can prod Happiest Sadist... It's been some time...

[Joubert]

Dark Lady, could you explain your last Unvote?
It was sudden and without any explanation or detail. I'd like to see some...

[Joubert]

No, it's an artefact of the editor. I fiddled with the dice tag (I didn't know it was integrated into the forums mechanics), but it had nothing to do with actually using it. After I clicked submit, the textfield added [/dice] at the end...

Now with HS and MoS's intervention, Charms seems somewhat suspicious, but nothing worth a finger for now, so I'll just say that I'll be watching...

[Joubert]

I'd like to hear from Malrokin. Too much lurking looks scummy...

[Joubert]

The more my name gets said, the more (most likely bad) attention I get...

Dark Lady, one thing important is that although you may get more attention when you speak (that's more or less a given), your

reaction

towards the pointing fingers can reveal many things, and is sometimes more informative than the accusation itself. Being pointed by one or five fingers should not make a lot of difference if you really are innocent...

In that case, even if what you say makes sense, I find your reaction skewed a bit. You're trying to say that the "probability" that you and Charms are of the same alignment could be pretty much equal to you and her being not the same alignment. But right after that, you vote Charms, seemingly to show that you're not with her? What does that mean?

Or is it because you only want to repel the "bad attention" on Charms? After all, you didn't explain your vote at all. Can you justify your move?

[Joubert]

My vote stays on you because I feel like you're making much more out of my seemingly "scummy" actions than is actually there. I think it's scummy to be pointing a finger at anyone this easily.

But aren't you doing the same thing with your vote? A vote is much more serious than a FoS...

[Joubert]

Time? If I'm not mistaken, there isn't any deadline...

[Joubert]

I didn't want to say it but, this game is boring...

[Joubert]

Joubert you are not helping. You have not given any suspicions, you have a random vote on from the start of the game. In fact, your association with DLS about Charms smells strongly of buddies.

Don't take my word for it. I agree there is something strange, but I wouldn't know what to add to make things go on. Don't worry, I'll bring something big on the table when the time comes...

By the way, Mastermind of Sin, why did you suspect Malrokin, is it only in the hope he will talk so the game would go on? I already used "go on" two times in this post. And you said that we were "lynching" Malrokin, but nothing new appeared in the horizon...

[Joubert]

Besides, my vote on Malrokin was still a random one...

Unvote

Welcome to the game, Jessia123...

[Joubert]

Mastermind of Sin, you seem to jump your vote quite often. Is there any reason behind that?

And I'd like some explanation for the Dark Lady/Charms link, from the point of view of the accused. Of course, some replies would point to a possible link between them, but nothing very convincing. We are more at the stage of supposition...

[Joubert]

That's exactly what I was referring to earlier, Dark Lady. Your reaction facing a situation can be as instructive as what you say. If you are overreactive, it means you have something to hide...

[Joubert]

That may be, but the other part of that is, who am I hiding it from and why?

The "who" is obviously the other players in the game. The "why", well, it depends of your motivations. Innocent people don't have to hide anything and they wouldn't profit from lying...

And if that is so, then how come the accusation of me and Charms being scum together kept getting pushed even though for the longest time I never said anything about it?

You were suspected of teaming with Charms because your respective votes were seemingly following a pattern. At one point, you voted Charms, apprently because someone did link her to you. And then, you changed your vote to ShadowLurker only because he voted on you. There must be at least another detail that could justify this vote jumping...

If ShadowLurker can further explain his vote on Dark Lady, then that would help untangle the ropes...

Charms seems to do the same with her vote. You vote for someone because you received a vote from this person, and vice-versa. People are suspected, but no extra information is exchanged. We are stalling...

However, I do agree with Dark Lady with her case on TheSweatpantsNinja. It's a good eyebrow-lifter...

FoS: TheSweatpantsNinja

[Joubert]

What makes you think he "dropped" Charms?

[Joubert]

Unvote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann
There's really no way she could benefit from lying about being the cop...

Of course, there's a way... She could be Scum and pretend to be cop...

Anyway, since no one seems to be counterclaiming, and I certainly don't want to, Unvote, vote ShadowLurker.

You "certainly don't want to"? You mean you could? So you're implying you're a cop, too?

Right now, I feel pretty good about MoS. He's taking the lead, and that's generally a townie move. Voting people for jumping votes on Day 1 is weak sauce.

What can vote jumping mean, then?

[Joubert]

Not when it comes to proving me wrong. If Joubert thinks I'm lying then he needs to go back through and counterclaim every hint I have left behind, and my reasons for wanting certain people lynched. Not just go around and randomly raise suspicions about every one else. I have already stated my position and who I feel is scum, and either he agrees with me or he doesn't, and he needs to say something about it. He attacked me pretty hard, but never voted for me, and continues to attack others. He needs to make a real statement and stop dancing around the issues.

This seems to heavily depend on what side of the fence you are standing. Is it your responsibility to prove yourself right, or mine (or any other player) to prove you wrong? If you really are cop, you must have something more than just a lone claim. If claiming was so magical in repelling suspicion and possibly misdirect everyone, then anyone can claim to scramble the eggs...

I am the cop. Mafia is trying to get rid of me now, so they don't have to nightkill me, (Though if I made it through the day they probably would have nightkilled me anyway.

How do you know that Mafia is trying to kill you RIGHT NOW? Ah yeah, because you are the cop (supposed, at least). But that's what YOU say. It's more like a kind of circular reasoning...

They obviously know who I am because they quickly picked up on the clues I was trying to leave behind. If you go back and read, you just might pick them up too.

Clues? What clues? You know something we don't? If you're town, the others should know. If you don't present your cards right away, there's nothing that could make it clear if you're bluffing or not. Townies don't have anything to hide. Scum do...

Vote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

[Joubert]

Fuck off, man... It looks like claiming Cop is the single best option to avoid suspicion AND repel shit on others. Too bad I didn't think about it before Dark Lady did. What would happen if I claimed Cop too? Even if she really is Cop, the reactions are unreal...

Joubert, I'm confused. Dark Lady's posts may have been a bit rambly, but her arguments seem to be just as sound as anyone else's on here. How could she prove her position as cop any more than she already has? And are you suggesting she claim cop as early as possible? If you were cop how would you go about claiming?

It's not about the contents, but more than about the reactions of others. Claiming doesn't make you clean. And there's at least one around here who wiped off any suspicion because of the claim. TSPN was severly pointed at recently, so he would quickly jump on anything that could get some approval from others...

As for MoS, he's talking as if he knew 100% that Dark Lady is the Cop. Scum don't know who's Cop (or if there's one or not), but they know who's Town. Talking like something is 100% certain is a Sure-Hit Scumtell™...

Moral of the story: never attack a claimed Cop and excuse everything, no matter the circumstances...

Unvote: Dark_Lady_Shaiann

[Joubert]

I see...

[Joubert]

Oh, that's possible...
Maybe it doesn't bear the same signification depending of the country. Sorry for that...

[Joubert]

I second what TSPN said. If Dark Lady is trustable, she could surely bring something interesting on the table. But what intrigues me is the sudden and unexplained hammer by Mastermind of Sin. But now that he turned out to be Town (and dead), it's even more confusing...

It is possible that the Scum team got rid of MoS so we couldn't clarify anything afterwards. If Dark Lady really is the Cop, and she investigated him, then it would mean it was a complete waste for the Town...

[Joubert]

I hope you realize, Dark Lady, that your vote was not only hasty, but very dangerous. If you really are Town, it would mean that the 2 other Scum only need to vote against the same player to seal and win the game...

Your vote lasted approximately 12 hours, so it's not a big deal. But if such vote lasted longer, and nothing happened, then you would be easily suspected...

[Joubert]

Charms, do you think there was Scum on Happiest Sadist's lynch?

[Joubert]

I'm not sure exactly why TSPN would be so rigid on Dark Lady's vote, it looks like we will need more serious reasons, mostly because we're in LYLO. For my part, I think Dark Lady's choice looks legitimate. As mentionned earlier, it COULD be WIFOM, but the balance tips to the Town side in my eye. In other words, it's tempting to think that everything was staged, but it's not necessarily the case...

[Joubert]

I suppose its possible that the scum weren't paying attention, but Dark_Lady, if town, had no way of knowing that.

Knowing what?

[Joubert]

Except that, TSPN's declaration put aside, if a player really is Town, and he want to claim, there's no choice. Scum could declare anything according to a strategy, but a Townie has no interest in making a false claim...

Dark Lady, do you think anyone who claims Plain Townie should be suspected?

[Joubert]

It could also mean that you are scum and that the other town players weren't going to jump on a quick lynch and your scum buddy wasn't going to vote for you and you obviously can't vote yourself.

Gah, this sentence is full of conditions. My head is spining...

[Joubert]

Yes, the fact that I claimed town is meaningless. Points 2 and 3 are the important ones, because they explain why DLS is scum and we should lynch her.

In fact, your points B and C are mutually inclusive. You say Dark Lady should be lynched because of those two points

combined

. Saying you should lynch someone only because s/he voted you on Day 2 is not pertinent...

Your point C, "Two other scum did not immediately lynch me", is a good point, but as I said earlier (and ShadowLurker too), her vote lasted approx. 12 hours, not very likely enough for the other (hypothetical) Scum to get on the wagon. If it was a question of days, then yes, there could be a suspicion...

ShadowLurker is a little silent. I don't like that...

[Joubert]

I still don't understand how anyone could have been so sure of Dark Lady's role even before she claimed...

[Joubert]

Well...MS was and he got killed for it.....

I say "how", not "who", although they are anagrams of each other...

[Joubert]

Ah, that's right, my bad. Reformulation:

I still don't understand how

some

one could have been so sure of Dark Lady's role even before she claimed...

Is it better?

[Joubert]

Well, that was not exactly why. I did agree mostly because I thought the investigation choice was legitimate since MoS dropped the hammer suddenly and without any explanation...

[Joubert]

I think the suspicion comes from the fact that you investigated a dead person. I think also that there should be at least one or two other reasons why you investigated MoS, appart from my hammer hypothesis...

Prod request: ShadowLurker

[Joubert]

That's a possibility... I think the most dead one is ShadowLurker...

Dark Lady, I guess you'll have to defend on the point of not being killed on Night 1. It doesn't prove anything, but it's still something that makes you suspected by a few people...

[Joubert]

So what do you propose?

[Joubert]

Alright I'll tell you guys what I think. I know that either or both TSPN or DLS must be scum. If this is not true we will certainly lose. Both of their votes were on each other for a decent period of time with no others occuring. This indictes that they cannot both be townies, or else there would have been a quicklynch.

I don't think it's safe to jump to such conclusions quickly. If we're in a Lylo situation, Scum wouldn't hesitate since it gives them instant victory. But having this kind of quicklynch in Day 1 would surely make the 2 quicklynchers very suspicious. The possibility still exists, but the logic is not bullet-proof...

Your argument for me rests on DLS not taking a risky gambit. Yet it assumes that I, as mafia, would have taken an even riskier gambit by not killing the cop. You haven't chosen between logic and reason, you've chosen neither, and you have until DLS and either joubert or charms checks this game to reconsider.

Yeah but if DLS is indeed a false Cop, Scum wouldn't have killed her, partly because we would find out anyway on the Dawn of Day 2. And since she was not lynched, Scum got everything they wanted with their tactic. And then, DLS have to deal with her investigation that lead nowhere...

Or, of course, you are the other scum. Is that why you wanted a replacement for shadowlurker, DLS?

Umm if I remember correctly DLS also suggested that maybe I should be modkilled, so that seems a little conflicting there.

I consider these assumptions out of context. It had to do with the game's evolution...

Now one last thing, and an important one. TheStranger, what you said makes sense and indeed brings something to chew on. But your vote on TSPN was as dangerous as the original vote from Dark Lady at the beginning of Day 2. You mentionned yourself that a quicklynch is possible. At this stage (Lylo), a quicklynch could happen easily if the 2 Scum are allowed to vote. So it's a delicate situation. Either you turn out to be Town and we lose after a quicklynch from the 2 other Scum, OR, you turn out to be Scum because the quicklynch doesn't happen...

So your behavior looks quite ambiguous and I don't like that. At the very least, I'd propose a FoS, but not a Vote...

[Joubert]

Oh I see... So the game is "too slow", as if a game had a pre-determined acceptable length...

Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

[Joubert]

Looks like the more I open my trap, the more I am suspected...

Unvote

This 'go slow' thing has gone on long enough. A think there have been enough arguements flying around for people to know what they want to do. If not, you need to start asking question. Now it just seems like your hesitating. I wonder why.

Damn, this is ridiculous. I did start something "fresh" for the sake of the game, and I get angry eyes in return...

Umm both DLS and TSPN have already voted each other for a decent period of (real) time today. They also openly demanded votes. There would be nothing suspicious if 2 more voted at that point.

You're incriminating yourself, here. The more your vote stays without a lynch, the more you're suspected, obviously. It's simple mathematical logic, I did not invent anything. The conspiracy turns more towards Dark Lady / TheStranger pair. I made the same remark towards Dark Lady and TheStranger, and oh, coincidence, my assumptions are backfired by those two...

FoS: Dark_Lady_Shaiann and TheStranger

[Joubert]

Now that is fast...
You should be happy now, as the game was "slowing down"...

[Joubert]

By the way, thanks Brian for the funny flavor...

[Joubert]

Hmmm, I take good note of this aftermatch...
Lots of valuable strategies and tips for future games...