Newbie 470: Trouble at Mount Excitement - Mafia Wins!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Because she claimed cop at L-1, and then no one tried to kill her. Because she voted for me, even though were she town, she should have been concerned about a quicklynch. Because she voted for me only because "I went back to my default plan of trying to get rid of her."

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

OK....thats all fine and dandy, but can you explain why I would want the only person who was on my side dead......without using WIFOM reasoning? I probably seemed pretty desperate D1 until I claimed and then MoS stepped up.....why would I put myself back in that same situation knowing that none of you really trust me anyway? You trusted MoS. If I had any hope of survival it would have been through him.

And besides...if I was mafia, I would know who wasn't. I would have killed a townie and then cleared another.....not the same person. To play a dual role you have to play dual actions to ease all suspisions.

[Joubert]

Charms, do you think there was Scum on Happiest Sadist's lynch?

[Charms86]

I was just thinking about that...
Both TSPN and Dark_Lady voted for him and yet they each have entirely different perspectives on the game. I feel like one of them might be scum, or possibly they're scum together and are really throwing us off with their constant banter.

Do you have any theories?

[Charms86]

And besides...if I was mafia, I would know who wasn't. I would have killed a townie and then cleared another.....not the same person. To play a dual role you have to play dual actions to ease all suspisions.

What do you mean by "not the same person"? and what do you mean about a "dual role"?

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

And besides...if I was mafia, I would know who wasn't. I would have killed a townie and then cleared another.....not the same person. To play a dual role you have to play dual actions to ease all suspisions.

What do you mean by "not the same person"? and what do you mean about a "dual role"?

You think it's suspicious that MoS was nightkilled and that I investigated him. You think that there is some sort of link, ie: I'm mafia, pretending to be cop and I killed MoS. If I were mafia I wouldn't kill him, and then say that I investigated him. I would have killed him, or somebody else for my real mafia role, and then cleared some one else for my claimed/fake cop role. That would be the easiest thing for me to do so that I can still have your trust while secretly being mafia claiming cop.

With such an easy way to prevent the situation I'm in right now....why would I bother with all of this?
Why would I kill the only person that really believed me, knowing that I was going to be under extreme scrutiny now, and unable to direct suspisions anywhere else since none of you believe me anyway?
Why would I leave myself open to such attack?
With the mafia so close to winning, why would I want so much attention on myself if I can easily avoid it?

[Charms86]

OK. Thanks for answering my question Dark_Lady.

Before the mafia killed MoS, he had said that we should investigate TSPN and Joubert the next day. We talked about TSPN, but what are your thoughts on Joubert?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well, I think Joubert is clean, or else he was engaging in a pretty risky distancing tactic Day 1.

And man, this game is s-l-o-w.

[Joubert]

I'm not sure exactly why TSPN would be so rigid on Dark Lady's vote, it looks like we will need more serious reasons, mostly because we're in LYLO. For my part, I think Dark Lady's choice looks legitimate. As mentionned earlier, it COULD be WIFOM, but the balance tips to the Town side in my eye. In other words, it's tempting to think that everything was staged, but it's not necessarily the case...

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Its simple.

A: I am town.

B: Dark_Lady voted for me Day 2.

C: Two other scum did not immediately lynch me.

Conclusion: Dark_Lady must be one of the two scum.

I suppose its possible that the scum weren't paying attention, but Dark_Lady, if town, had no way of knowing that.

[ShadowLurker]

Its simple.

A: I am town.

B: Dark_Lady voted for me Day 2.

C: Two other scum did not immediately lynch me.

Conclusion: Dark_Lady must be one of the two scum.

I suppose its possible that the scum weren't paying attention, but Dark_Lady, if town, had no way of knowing that.

Her vote was only on you for the span of 12 hours.

Woah, on reread I noticed this.

No, no, I'm not the cop. Its just frustrating finding the player I was fairly confident was scum is the cop. I'm actually not sure if you're attacking Joubert or me, but the only way for anyone to

prove

you aren't the cop is by killing you. Since you probably are the cop, I sort of don't want to do that.

As for Joubert, vote jumping is changing your vote. Voting people for changing votes on Day 1 when there cannot possibly be hard evidence is a serious reach of a reason, so I am voting for a player who has been lurking his way through Day 1, has voted for a player I feel is town, and had a bad reason for doing so anyway.

What made you so confident DLS was the cop?

[Joubert]

I suppose its possible that the scum weren't paying attention, but Dark_Lady, if town, had no way of knowing that.

Knowing what?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That the scum wasn't paying attention. As a townie, she couldn't have known that the scum weren't prepared to quicklynch.

As for Day 1, I wasn't

that

confident, but without a counterclaim, it seemed imprudent to lynch her. But now that she survived to Day 2. . . WIFOM it may be, but we don't have any verifiable information, so

every

argument will be WIFOM.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Also, the second paragraph of Shadowlurker's quote is actually in reference to MoS, not DLS.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

I don't know why, but people who claim town annoy me. Power roles don't bother me as much (obviously) because the player who claims their power role leaves the town with more to loose. It just seems kind of weird and strangly desperate and a little bit scummy, because every one already assumes that you are town. Why would you need to reinforce that assumption if no one is really suspecting you? Well, except me...but no one really believes me......

And yes...this is in regards to TSPN's post where he claimed town.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, it usually bothers me too, but I wanted three points so my post would flow better. Obviously, whether or not I or you or anyone else says 'I am town' makes it no more likely to be true.

[Joubert]

Except that, TSPN's declaration put aside, if a player really is Town, and he want to claim, there's no choice. Scum could declare anything according to a strategy, but a Townie has no interest in making a false claim...

Dark Lady, do you think anyone who claims Plain Townie should be suspected?

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

Well...I think it's weird/scummy for the same reason I stated above. Every one assumes that you are town, why would you need to reinforce that assumption if no one is suspecting you? It's like....an unnecssary disclaimer almost, I guess I could say. A player in my first game said:

"This is my first town game, so some of my actions may seem a bit scummy."

He said that a lot, like every chance he got. It almost got him lynched, but he was saved by an actual scum's stupid mistake. He ended up being town, though losing the game for us, but it was still just really weird, annoying and fairly scummy IMO.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

There is a difference between claiming Vanilla Townie and claiming town. Claiming Vanilla Townie, in most games, is meaningful. Claiming town is useless. But we're starting to stray from the path, this probably belongs in the Mafia Discussion forum.

Yes, the fact that I claimed town is meaningless. Points 2 and 3 are the important ones, because they explain why DLS is scum and we should lynch her.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

No it doesn't. It could also mean that you are scum and that the other town players weren't going to jump on a quick lynch and your scum buddy wasn't going to vote for you and you obviously can't vote yourself.

[Joubert]

It could also mean that you are scum and that the other town players weren't going to jump on a quick lynch and your scum buddy wasn't going to vote for you and you obviously can't vote yourself.

Gah, this sentence is full of conditions. My head is spining...

[Joubert]

Yes, the fact that I claimed town is meaningless. Points 2 and 3 are the important ones, because they explain why DLS is scum and we should lynch her.

In fact, your points B and C are mutually inclusive. You say Dark Lady should be lynched because of those two points

combined

. Saying you should lynch someone only because s/he voted you on Day 2 is not pertinent...

Your point C, "Two other scum did not immediately lynch me", is a good point, but as I said earlier (and ShadowLurker too), her vote lasted approx. 12 hours, not very likely enough for the other (hypothetical) Scum to get on the wagon. If it was a question of days, then yes, there could be a suspicion...

ShadowLurker is a little silent. I don't like that...

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yes. Without the two combined, it is meaningless. I already had a feeling that she was scum, and that vote confirmed it for me.

And shadowlurker and charms have both been very quiet. I would very much like to hear from them.

[Dark_Lady_Shaiann]

We already know that Shadow Lurker pops his head in here every so often. I expect a little bit more conversation from Charms.....

[Charms86]

I don't have too much to add at this point.

I think Both Dark_Lady and TSPN have points for and against them in this game.

Dark_Lady's point about how TSPN could be scum and, therefore the reason why scum didn't quick lynch him, is a good thing to keep in mind. But unfortunately, as other have been saying, the fact that the vote lasted only 12 hours may prevent us from being able to make any real conclusions here.

I'll try to post something more insightful when I have a bit more time.