Open 585: Jungle Republic (ended)

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: West9
Who are you? What happened to the original West and the subsequent seven Wests?
-Cheet

I'm more sad he didn't go for West49.

Missed an opportunity there, man!

[Aristophanes]

i) Still a missed opportunity, but I guess I'll give him that
ii) Done. I forgot about that.
iii) Oh sure, stack votes this early. That seems like a good game plan.

If anything, I would

Vote: Gliffie

because he scares me.

And of course, I get ninja'd by West.

Dammit! You got me! Obviously scum right here.
I obviously should have seen that coming!

[Aristophanes]

wait hold on

Vote Lalendra

she keeps killing me in games for no good reason

Um, I had a good reason when I was scum and you were town. BOOM, ROASTED.

Are you Gimme?

I was thinking the same thing.

iii) Oh sure, stack votes this early. That seems like a good game plan.

Are you scared of wagons? Got a problem with acryon stacking his vote with Gliff if so?

Also, hydra guys (I forgot the name of your amalgamation), sup with the easy vote on me?
What if I were town, making West a scummy bastard!?
Also, two versions of scum in this game. In theory we could both be evil. Why side with him against me?

Dammit! You got me! Obviously scum right here.

Super easy D1. Thanks Ari. c:
VOTE: Aristophanes

Because hydras suck. Really suck. Remove please.

That is a very hurtful RVS.

I'm with Gliffie.

That is a very hurtful RVS.

-Cheet

I am actually a little uptight about that. Acryon, whats with that? Trying to get an early wagon going?

Also,

[Aristophanes]

Apparently I dunno how this site works yet. This part was @hydra johnny/cheet, not a quote.

"Also, hydra guys (I forgot the name of your amalgamation), sup with the easy vote on me?What if I were town, making West a scummy bastard!?Also, two versions of scum in this game. In theory we could both be evil. Why side with him against me?"

[Aristophanes]

Hey, I'm back. I see I'm at L-3! Whoopee!

In response to all these "tone" issues, I have been snarky and just decided to play around at the beginning of this game. Obviously a little too much so. Oh well!

"Also, hydra guys (I forgot the name of your amalgamation), sup with the easy vote on me?What if I were town, making West a scummy bastard!?Also, two versions of scum in this game. In theory we could both be evil. Why side with him against me?"

Are you still joking around here or did you actually think the reasoning for my vote on you was 100% literal?

No, I wasn't taking the vote literally. I was making a point that his logic was flawed, but I also was definitely still joking around.

I am actually a little uptight about that. Acryon, whats with that? Trying to get an early wagon going?

Can you explain why an early wagon is a bad thing? Cuz I don't really seem to recall an instance of a game that you've been in where there's been a quickwagon on D1 that's resulted in anything bad happening?

-Cheetory6

New site, I wanted to see what people thought of the idea of D1 quickwagons. Obviously there's no aversion to them here (though I'm not sure I'd call this "quick". It is in post-count, but not really time-wise). It was a combination of me being a little safe, a little snarky, and testing the waters.


Anyway, hope that clears some stuff up.

Acryon seems like he's gotten kinda defensive. He also hasn't really done much contributing as of yet. Acryon, other than thinking my tone to be funny, what are your thoughts on the players here? Ginko and Lyserg have said stuff, why not look into them a bit?

Orcinus, why all the random votes with no explanation?
Other than this, you've done almost nothing as of yet. What gives? Game related thoughts?
VOTE: Orcinus_TheOriginal

Ginko and Lyserg are alright in my books thus far.

Everyone else needs to do more things.
Any by more things, I mean discussion. No more of this "LolAri" voting pls

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: aristophanes

See, Orcinus, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm asking about!
Can we please got some actual conversation from you, rather than a random L-2 vote with no explanation!

Also, I really have use a better face than
It just looks weird!

[Aristophanes]

Orcinus, why all the random votes with no explanation?
Other than this, you've done almost nothing as of yet. What gives? Game related thoughts?
VOTE: Orcinus_TheOriginal

do you think i'm scummy, or are you trying to get a rise out of me?

I won't know if you're scummy until I get a rise out of you.
But the lack of conversation from you is anti-town at best.

[Aristophanes]

@Prawneater - No thoughts on anything yet?

@Ginko - Is your vote serious, or RVS?

Also, if those you who came here from the above mentioned forum don't mind sharing, I'm curious how much experience you have playing the game?

I've got to wake up in about five hours, so I'll catch you guys again tomorrow.

This is only my third game.

Sorry I haven't posted much, yesterday was my 30th birthday and I spent much of it drunk in a casino, and today is football playoffs. I'll be on more.

Oh? Well then, happy belated Lalendra!

[Aristophanes]

@West

, I'm seeing a lot of technical/non-game related stuff in your posts, so it kind of feels like your vote is just sitting there. Any particular reason for that?

No particular reason, no. It's not intentional, just haven't taken the time to really parse through the game until now.

@Lyserg - Ari not liking early wagons doesn't really upset my meta personal on him. Same with him not liking RVS and voting for orcinus.

Heavy, heavy backpedalling coming from Ari. I'm cool with my vote still being here. Also, he still hasn't disproved my initial logic.

Your initial logic being you're town, thus I'm scum?
As I said, we could both be scum in this setup.
Also, how can I prove I'm town without a lynch.

[Aristophanes]

Rereading all this and will amass thoughts, questions, and answers.
Will return soon with all that.

[Aristophanes]

I won't know if you're scummy until I get a rise out of you.
But the lack of conversation from you is anti-town at best.

ok. why do you think it's anti-town? i guess the assumption here is that because i'm not forcibly trying to fabricate scumreads in RVS i am contributing. and yet it would appear that my votes have given rise to the first serious/non-gut coversation in the game.

so i guess it's your turn to elabroate on that

Sorry I never got back to you on this. I see that you were baiting us. Somebody had to bite, so I went for it. Yes, you got the first "serious" conversation going. That doesn't tell me much. I like your level of contribution now, though I have some stuff I'll get to later in this post that I wanted to mention.

Heavy, heavy backpedalling coming from Ari. I'm cool with my vote still being here. Also, he still hasn't disproved my initial logic.

Your initial logic being you're town, thus I'm scum?
As I said, we could both be scum in this setup.
Also, how can I prove I'm town without a lynch.

I'm still confused. Are these jokes, or legitimate attempts to disprove my logic?

I really don't get what you want from me. I've addressed the vote multiple times. It wasn't even a serious vote. I suppose I could have said "well, we could also just both be town, ya dummy!" like you expected, but what fun would that be when other possibilities exist to be explored! I'd rather get people thinking outside the box than have us forget about the odd setup of this game-type. As for the backpedaling, I really wasn't, but okay. If you say so.

VOTE: Orcinus_TheOriginal

Called this shiet so hard, Johnny owes me a fakedollar.

Am I really that predictable Cheet? Geez.

I won't know if you're scummy until I get a rise out of you.
But the lack of conversation from you is anti-town at best.

Now that orcinus has started talking, what're your thoughts on him?

Well, I like that he's talking, but not really the way he's talking. As you said, he seems like he's talking to an audience. I'd take it one step further. Ocrinus reminds me of Dr. Phil!
Commanding the conversation, pushing a sort of "I'm right, so talk away, but I know I'm right anyway" mentality in his wordings, and having somewhat leading questions, as if he's just shepherding us all to agree with him. I'm not voting because of that, because it's not necessarily scummy, but it really is making me watch his posts.

metalcyanide seems simultaneously self-concerned and not legitimately curious

So, what does this do for you? I would assume this is a somewhat scum mentality, so why not pursue it?

intercepting that question. i was an easy vote.

It was also a necessary vote. It brought you out of the random voting and facilitated conversation. Is it bad that I made an "easy" vote?

VOTE: UNvote: orcinus_theoriginal aside from missing a post which answered my question his post since then don't seem especially scummy. But I'm having trouble with this 3 team thing so he could still be scum but just hunting the other scum. Who knows at this point.

I would like to see more from people before really coming up with anything definite.

Two things here, Metal.
i) What more do you need from people before commenting? There has been plenty of conversation going on. Why not address it?
ii) You're saying Ocrinus doesn't seem scummy while saying he could just be a different version of scum. Are you "Third-Party" hunting (or whatever you want to call it this game)? If someone seems scummy, then they seem scummy. If not, then not. This kind of logic you have here is Wine and makes it very easy for you to backtrack your thoughts later.


Other notes: I just remembered that I have a thing on my internet that automatically translates "figuratively" to "figuratively". So if I sound like a dummy, it may be because I'm misreading a post. Sorry about that!

I was gonna say something @West and now I forget. I'm sure it'll come to me.

As for this sequence of events you're questioning, Ocrinus, I really didn't see Ginko "setting me up" for anything. He's done it before, yes, but this doesn't seem the same. This may also be one of his reactionary things, as that statement ("Can I come back to you on this") is an odd response IMO unless this is the case.

Umm...Other than that, people should check back in and stuff.

Sorry about the wall! :S

[Aristophanes]

I'll have to parse all this when I get home from work.
Too much to try addressing on my phone.

[Aristophanes]

VOTE: Metal

[Aristophanes]

OHEY! I'm actually here now and have a chance to do that thing I said I would do.
I passed out really early Monday and was out Tuesday, so I apologize. I wanted to do something though, so I voted Metal to see what would happen.

Of the responses, I like Lalendra's the least. I actually had a kind of scum inkling on Metal, but this is much better than I expected.
VOTE: Lalendra
She switched so quickly to a scum read on me and her best argument thus far was "West made a good point, I just didn't see it before" which just sounds off to me. I feel like she was just waiting for a good moment to pounce, and I gave it to her.

I still don't get the reasoning for thinking [insert name here because I don't feel like checking right now] was a Warewolf specifically. Seems like badly veiled "third party hunting" or whatever you wanna call it to me.

As a side note, if she is scum I could totally see it being herself and either West or Metal. I was in a game with her not too long ago (her first game on the forums) and we were both scum. She left a really big trail leading back to her scummates (Gliffie could've vouched for this, but is gone now) (Hi Young!!) in agreeing with them/us, especially when we said vague things, like this whole West business. As for Metal, that hard-defense (at least, that's how I read it) when I voted him just seems so overboard, as if she panicked and is just trying to get rid of me. Couple that with West possibly distancing himself from Metal as scum by grouping Metal and myself, I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.

I was just ninja'd by West and Lalendra and would like to note that she also avoided reads on her fellow scummates, but when she was pushed into it, gave weak-to-strong townreads iirc in that game I just mentioned. Just fyi all.

[Aristophanes]

I could totally see this being the three Mafia Goons being really messy on D1.

Why specifically mafia?

-Cheetory6

Working on a big post, but wanted to address this.

Mafia specifically because I could see it being the three of them and there are only two warewolves. If it is only two of them, any sort of scum applies.

As for the New Years thing, yeah, I remembered that conversation and was somewhat wary of quicklynching when I came into D1. I wanted to test the waters with this crowd though regardless.

[Aristophanes]

inb4 I get crucified for something in this post.

Totally okay with that though.

[Aristophanes]

Now to address all those other things I've been ignoring. Let's see, where to start... (Though pg 5 realistically, since I'm fairly certain that's where I left off on shit)

This is going back a bit, but

@Ocrinus

, I wasn't trying to say that I say you were reaction testing at the time. I meant to say that in retrospect I realized what you had done. I still don't get why I was quite so on the spot for reacting, but oh well. Also, I realize this sounds "backpedal-y" and really considered just not addressing it, but I wanted to clear that up.
Also, I'd love to dance, I'm just not always at the right ball...

Why did you ask me to look specifically into Ginko and Lyserg? Other people said things, and people like Orc said quite a bit, but for some reason you mentioned those two specifically.
And then you say:

Ginko and Lyserg are alright in my books thus far.

Why do you want me to specifically look at the two people you think are fine? This isn’t normal town behavior in my experience. If you were to ask me to look into someone, normally it would make sense for it to be someone you suspected.
VOTE: Aristophanes

I'm fairly certain that when I asked you to look at these two Ocrinus was still in RVS and it had basically been just myself, Ginko, and Lyserg talking. I may have had a town-vibe from them, but I definitely wanted a second opinion, especially since, as I said, noone was talking much yet. You never did give me an answer in that post either, btw, so why did you deflect my question back at me rather than give a read??

@Ginko (Cheet)

, I almost unvoted Ocrinus in that last big post I made. Totally forgot to tbh. I think you can claim this bet. Also, I remember most of our meeting-up. It was a fun time! I have no clue if there was something significant I was supposed to remember though...

@Metal

, I don't get the whole "Ocrinus and Acryon are probably on the same team" thing. Please expand upon it?? Also, when was I sloppy other than that one time I misplaced some text in my quotes? How is this sloppiness scummy? Also, all of your "but I'm being careful because I wanna live" rhetoric is bull. Seems like scum actively realizing the scumminess in his safer play and trying to fluff it off as being in town's best interest.

@Farside

, Welcome! Also, with this post, do you still find me scummy? I believe I addressed most of your points, just at other people here. Any updated thoughts?

If you already knew it was likely commonplace, why go to the lengths of indirectly asking in such a weird way? Why not just directly ask? Like, walk me through your intentions there.
-Cheetory6

I mean, I've never been big on quickwagons, especially on D1. I now you had that happen to you once, but that doesn't mean I can take it at face value. Also just plain asking is boring! Wouldn't have been much of a conversation if I had've done it that way, now would it have?

[Aristophanes]

Inb4 Lalendra hammers Metal if given the chance.

(I'm here, gonna post. Had to unwind after work before I could get on here. I think I'm ready now.)

[Aristophanes]

@Everyone: In #115 I said "I

see

that you were baiting us." not "I

saw

that you were baiting us."
I know it may seem insignificant, but I never claimed I reacted because I knew what he was doing. This was a remark after the fact where I acknowledged what had happened.

I know it's late and I'm tired but I had another question for Ari: what about my play is striking you as "messy?" That's something I haven't heard yet

I was theorizing out loud moreso than accusing. If you, Metal, and Lalendra are scum together, the grouping is being messy about it. You specifically have not been messy. I suppose this was more myself putting an FoS than anything else.Of the three, you're lowest on my scumdar.

Ari: I think your reason, testing waters comment is crap.
I agree that lal is scummy.

k, what does this mean? I'm open to a conversation about this if you like. Not that I have much to say. Whatever floats your boat though.

Ari – as Acryon pointed out in 181, there is something off about his play in this game. The “I posted a vote on metal just to see what would happen because I didn’t have time for a real post” could be legit, but doesn’t ring true. When he finally came back to the game after being away for a bit, he tunneled in on me, West and Metal, without really saying anything about anyone else until later. That could have just been because he was pressed for time. The stuff West said wasn’t particularly vague, so his point about me leaving a scumtrail also didn’t ring true. Seems like he’s just picking out parts of my meta that will implicate me in this, to plant the seed of doubt with everyone, without creating any real solid tie-ins. Also this:

As for the New Years thing, yeah, I remembered that conversation and was somewhat wary of quicklynching when I came into D1. I wanted to test the waters with this crowd though regardless.

It was a fun time! I have no clue if there was something significant I was supposed to remember though...

Reconcile these two statements, if you can.

So, here we go.
I did post the metal vote to get reactions. I didn't have the time for a full post and didn't want to half-ass it, so I set that up. I wasn't expecting anything. I just wanted an honest reaction from people. I think you're just bitter that all this has turned on you because of it.
I also was pressed for time, as I have been most of this game, when making that post. I still agree with my read, though I'm most confident on you as scum. If you're not, I will definitely reevaluate things. I'll also probably be lynched D2 if I am wrong. It's a risk, but I feel you're scummy and am just theorizing in case I do take a bullet.
Reconciling the statements is easy. I remembered the conversation specifics when they were brought up. They were in the back of my mind when I started this game. By the time he asked about it, I couldn't think of anything that could be related to this game. I saw where he was going once he stated his point. I mean, that's basically what I said at the time. I don't get what feels off about it, but fill me in if there is anything.

Toss shit my way if you guys like, I'll be here for another hour I think.

[Aristophanes]

Quickposting because need Ari to see it (also other people who've played with her, like Ginko heads and specially @Metal):
From ISOing Lal's first game (scumLalendra) and looking at this one I feel like there's a noticeable lack of curiosity or of questioning in how she behaved in both games. Maybe I'm wrong 'cause I just quick-skimmed over to check right now, but the only semblance of curiosity or engaging with others (rather than being asked stuff by others) is either via rethroical questions or questions that directly involve people's read on her or questions to you that I could see as she trying to deflect from your suspicion (@Lal: I mean, if he is mentioning three people that's not exactly a tunnel). I haven't checked the "Keely's BS" game yet because I hadn't realised she was there until just now, so: Is this kind of reactionary play just her style? Because otherwise, it seems scummy to me.

Iirc she was more proactive in the BS game, but I'd have to check back. She was definitely more reactionary and I believe even made reference to that in our scum chat when we were scum together. Overall I see very similar play from that game to this one, making me thing she is, in fact, scummy.
I may be wrong about the Keely BS one, but I don't think so.
You you mind looking back, oh Meta Man?

[Aristophanes]

I think I was just trying to take credit for something I hadn't done because I felt dumb for not realizing in the moment that he was going for reactions. Also, I mean, someone had to vote for him. I'm not wrong when I said that. I was just trying not to feel as dumb about it. #RealTalks

[Aristophanes]

(my internet connection sucks, sorry about that double post)
Screw you Ari, I'm pretty sure this is actually you being honest (alingment non-indicative anyways I'd say) but fuck that AtE >.<

Hey, you were the one who wanted to be nitpicky!

Continuing: On the other hand, look at her response to me on 187 about the werewolf thing, that strikes me as a townslip (maybe in this case it's more of a non-werewolf slip, but I was thinking that a mafia would know it'd be easy to check for the wincon on the public role pms or something) because what she's saying was like assuming the werewolf had no other wincon besides the "at least one protown role" one. It didn't pass the second check I tried to apply when I asked more about that (I kinda expected her to be like "Oh, my bad, misunderstood their wincon" or something) but it still caught my eye; am I misreading what she meant or making too much out of that? (because besides that townslippy feeling of it, the "werewolf" thing is part of what makes me feel like some of her points are a stretch). @Other_people should also tell me if I'm being dumb about this.

I don't quite get what you're saying here, Lys.
She had the wincons right in this post, no? She mentioned a majority and the "at least one protown role" thing in that as a werewolf wincon.
In that post specifically, I thought it was weird that she specifically said something about still having "no clue who the seer is yet". This seemed like a scum slippy-wording imo. I had forgotten about that until I read that post again. What are your thoughts on that? And like I say, please elaborate on your thoughts on this being townslippy.

[Aristophanes]

I'll be here tomorrow, just wanted to mention to Honeybee I have my vote on Lalendra, not Metal. I'm doublevoting according to the last two vote counts.

[Aristophanes]

Lol, I guess I must be a secret doublevoter and didn't even know it. Still somehow have 2 votes in that VC.

Also, be back tomorrow after work. Sorry guys for lack of content.

OOPS, fixed -hb

[Aristophanes]

*Prodding Aristophanes*

Shoot.
I, uh, totally didn't forget this was a thing.

Off to work, but I will be here tonight I guess to do something.
I may not have read everything then, but will do my best!

Sorry guys.

[Aristophanes]

Hey guys! Sorry I didn't do much in the last bit of D1. I was quite sick, to the point I couldn't really move much for a bit there. Good now though!

Should be up at 11EST to skim what I missed and start some commentary. Let's do this!

[Aristophanes]

Got called into work but posting a quick thought update from reading this page.

I agree with pretty fully with Johnny's post there. I'd had the same thoughts on D2ers being likely to not kill D2ers immediately. He also did seem pretty vanilla to me. I like this logic.

I have votes on me, but no questions. I'm sure I missed some and will read them in catchup in a few hours, but if anyone has any for me go for it and I'll do my best.

Also, vote is on Ari because the slot is definitely mafia.

Ouch. My feelings!

People are saying I am definitely opposite of Lal. Why does this make me a scum team member and not a town member?

[Aristophanes]

Because I see nothing town from your post.

Well, I'm sorry about that. I'm pretty good at sounding perpetually scummy...lol

[Aristophanes]

So, I'm at L-2 already? Geeze.
I'm gonna be right upfront with this. If you guys want to kill me because of all of my apparently scummy moves, go for it. I've played games before where I was suspected by most, but fought for myself multiple days in a row, basically taking over the boards. It let the actual scum slip through the cracks a lot easier and I'm not gonna repeat that. I am town though (yes, I know that's what everyone will say, but w/e).

Anyway, I passed out early last night and didn't read back still. I may or may not bother to at this point. Regardless, will answer what I can.

West: My choice of Metal was because I had a slight ping on him and was curious how people would react (obviously). The quick defense by Lal made me think I) that she was scum and ii) that Metal was a scummate. I could still see it.
All the "buddying" and talk of their personal history could have easily been to throw us onto different trails and just write off their interactions as "irl friends". I know I was giving them quite the benefit of the doubt for a while there.
Also, Farside (I believe), you mentioned that Metal and Lal likely weren't scummates as Lal wasn't attacking Metal as she had noted doing in previous games. They've yet to be of the same alignment. She will generally attack him regardless. So I think it's more indicative of them possibly being scummates than not.

Farside, you requested a reads list, yes?
Ill see what I can do. Right now Metal is up near the top. Other than that I don't have much more than a bunch of nulls, leaning slightly in different directions.

Metal again, why would it matter what timezone Honeybee is in??
There is a literal countsown timer counting to the end of the phase. It tells you exactly how much time is left, regardless of timezone. Why was that so hard to figure out?
Also, thanks. Still tired, but I'm here at least! And this snow, isn't it grand?
Oh, and what are your thoughts on Acryon now that we have an Orcinus flip? Are you still grouping the two as being on the same team?

[Aristophanes]

And I'm dumb and forgot..

VOTE: Metal

[Aristophanes]

*Prodding Aristophanes*

I've been writing a post since, like, 10pm. I'm sorry it took so long. I had no intention of not having completed it until now!

Anyway, sorry in advance to everyone. The next post is gonna be a doozie :S

[Aristophanes]

Replying to stuff. It's not all relevant still or has already been addressed, so if I don't answer something you wanted me to, re-ask it I guess.
Also, V/la for most of the weekend. Will do my best to check in if I can, but may be slightly absent until Monday.

Who is TTH??

My choice of Metal was because I had a slight ping on him

What was it exactly that pinged you on him?

Also, Farside (I believe), you mentioned that Metal and Lal likely weren't scummates as Lal wasn't attacking Metal as she had noted doing in previous games. They've yet to be of the same alignment. She will generally attack him regardless. So I think it's more indicative of them possibly being scummates than not.

You made a huge deal out of people going after werewolves on D1, why has your stance on that changed all of a sudden? You were treating them like third party and now you're not. Why?

Metal again, why would it matter what timezone Honeybee is in??
There is a literal countdown timer counting to the end of the phase. It tells you exactly how much time is left, regardless of timezone. Why was that so hard to figure out?

What in the world is this point man? :/ Are you calling him scum for not figuring out where the countdown timer was? Lol?

-Cheetohreesix

Can't remember what pinged originally. Not liking his interactions though. I feel they're more than the "just metal being metal" we've seen in past games.
I treated Warewolves as TP because I can split it up easier in my head that way. Stance is still the same, I'm just trying to use terms and stuff that people are into.
In the last bit, yes. I was musing the idea that he saw the timer but was playing dumb to either prolong the day, possibly getting a mislynch from the confusion, or to avoid making the final hammer vote on a scummate. His response seems genuine though so not pursuing that line of thought.

Also when I read ari's last post it reads very derpy.

You basically just described my Mafia career. What does the derp mean to you though?

I didn't bring up West because I am waaaay more confident in Ari-scum than I am in West-wolf. I'd rather focus on lynching the person I am far more confident about.
----------
Considering Metal didn't even get a chance to post between the time Ari voted him and switched to Lal, I would say that it was

not

a reaction test, since there was figuratively no reaction from it before Ari switched off of it.

As for the active lurking: ... Oh, there's actually a lot of quickposting to apologize for lack of time. Did you mean that?

Yes.

Okay, so to address all this. 1, why would you purposely tunnel? You are saying you'd rather pursue ONLY your main target. This reads as a generally scummy thing to do, as town want to get rid of any scum, regardless if it's their main scum-read, and pursuing those things that feel off, even if not by that main person, is the only way to get things moving in future phases.
I didn't post the vote solely to test Metal. Maybe I should have waited for him to respond before I came in with my follow-up, but I'm rather happy with the results and have no regrets about it. I wantedgeneral reactions to the vote more than his reaction to being voted.
And I've been busy. Wasn't meaning to not post or prod-dodge, but it ended up happening. Sorry I guess?

Acryon who is part of your scum group?
Ari/ginko and metal same question to you 3 as well.

I can see Metal as scum for sure. Acryon, in recent interactions especially, is also up there. Otherwise still trying to get solid reads on a lot of people.

UNVOTE: Aristophanes

I was hoping more people would jump on Aristophanes.

Aristophanes is a bad lynch. Aristophanes is lowhanging fruit and an easy vote-park. We should stop talking about him and we should instead be looking at anyone currently on his wagon.

Based on how many votes were on him, it's impossible for mafia to be with him unless they were bussing D1. Lalendra the werewolf also voted him D1. He's confirmed town for me.

9 voters have been on him at various points in the day (Ginko, acryon, orcinus_theoriginal, West9, VysePresident, Metalcyanide, farside22, Lalendra, metalcyanide) and he's always been in danger of being lynched.

Right now metal and acryon are on him. They are good lynches. Acryon already looked scummy yesterday.

VOTE: acryon

Finally, a man who understands me! XD
Seriously though, I mostly agree with this post, except for the fact that bussing on D1 is a huge possibility. I mean, it's not what happened, but in theory it should be considered and I am curious as to why it didn't cross your mind. Also, you listed Metal twice in that tally of people who voted me.
I think being conf-town is a little much, that's really what's getting at me right now. Even in the standard town vs scum setup, finding someone you can trust as conftown rarely happens so early. I'd think it almost impossible in the tri-party setup going on here. So, why the conf-town read?

Like, for what it's worth, I'm not so sure that the NK was directed at Orc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I gather TTH has a fairly positive sitewide reputation, and I know from playing with her that she a fairly decent player. This would indicate a veteran, not a D2er.

I also don't like Ginko's focus on the NK. It feels like he's setting up a narrative. I kinda want the Seer to look into him tonight.

More in a few hours.

Vyse, what is the point of this kind of speculation? You are, in doing this, setting up your own narrative.
Also, if this means you're assuming the other Warewolf is from this site, why look into Ginko? Seer can only see WW vs Non-WW. This makes no sense to me.
Who from this site do you think would be Lal's buddy and why?

Lal's switch to Ari was a reaction, but I think, if anything, he was looking for an opportunity as scum. And he may have thought it was likely someone would bite on his naked vote. The problem is, if he is town, he should expect people to jump on him for that, so I don't buy it as a reaction test from town in that way.

Okay, so here's my 2 cents worth. Whether town or scum, that baited a reaction and got the desired result. If I were town, of course I would expect people to jump on me! That's kinda the point of a REACTION test! If I were scum, what would be the point? I'd be baiting either the two wolfs, or someone from the town's populace into reacting. If I got a town bite, I'd probably end up under fire for leading a mislynch if it went through as it did, and I'd likely be dead that phase otherwise. If I somehow got the scum reaction from one of the two Warewolves, sure, it'd look good, but it's be an unnecessary risk as scum, putting me into the limelight for days to come. I just don't see what you dislike about it so much.

@Acryon,
(P.Edit: I was gonna spoiler this because I got way too carried away when writing this portion. It didn't work :S Sorry to everyone who has to read this.)

I disagree. People make bad, unfounded cases in mafia. It may be laziness, or just being bad at the game, but it doesn't make them scum. You can have a crappy weak sincere case. Strength has nothing to do with sincerity.

how can you have a crappy weak sincere case while being as actively involved in the game as Metal has been.

Not trying to bash him here, but by being inexperienced/lazy/not very good at the game.

I'll give you the same reply I gave to him about things. My reads on people are constantly evolving, in varying degrees. I don't find it necessary to update the entire town on all of them. When I think it's necessary/helpful toward the town finding scum, I speak about it. You see the things I post about; those are things I deem most valuable and worth my/town's time.

How is it not worth your time to ask you if you think that Lal and I are wolfmates after Lal is confirmed to be wolf.

Because that's something I'm trying to figure out on my own. I'd much rather get town to move forward on the Ari lynch, which I am significantly more confident in. Trying to pursue any and every scum-read just doesn't get you anywhere.

[quote="In post 558, farside22"]I also had to take a step back and asked him about west and lal because I found west asking lal questions.
Lal didn't interact with west, which west called out and lal used west case as a good point. None of that equal scum together.

This is a counterargument to the "West/Lal" pairing. Farside is calling your response dishonest because you ignored this counterargument

I hope you can see how all of this is making you look like you can't defend your reads.

I didn't intentionally dodge there, but what do I say when someone disagrees with my gut. And if you don't think this is clearly saying gut, then you are just an idiot and I can't help you:

Nothing in particularly necessarily strongly pinged, but I did have in my notes that West was the most likely partner to Lal if Lal was wolf/scum.

Considering there is a lot of gut involved in the reads particularly on you/Vyse/Lyserg, I think it would be pretty suspicious if I

could

strongly defend them. There is a reason I was/am pushing for an Ari lynch, which I can and have defended strongly, versus one of any of the three of you which I know I can't.

VOTE: Acryon

OMGUS at its finest ladies and gentlemen. Look through his ISO and look at the point where he starts to turn on me (hint: it's when I noted that I thought he was Lal's buddy). Luckily, you have helped me know where to steer the town to find the likely second wolf after we get our scum.[/quote]
I dislike so much of this post it's unbelievable!
How is talking about something at all counter-productive? How is it better than figuring things out on your own? The latter helps only yourself unless you come out and share your thoughts, and you may miss things or make considerations not everyone will. Having an open conversation about your thoughts is a huge way to actually find scum.
[Quick note: I say scum a lot. When I say it, I generally mean "any anti-town party". I know you guys generally mean "mafiascum" when you say it, so I'm trying to be considerate of that and adapt my terminology accordingly. When saying "Scum" though, please assume I mean all anti-town parties, and not "Mafia" specifically.]
On a similar topic, that last sentence about finding the second Wolf after you find scum. This comes off as extremely cocky and full of yourself, and I feel like you're almost too sure of this read on West. That, plus the fact that you seem to think the Warewolves, which happen to be the party that Controls The Night Kill, are of a lesser issue than scum themselves seems weird to me. First off, scum is scum. Why would one group of them present any difference of threat level than another? Secondly, how can you possibly be so sure you've got scum pegged down right now? And if I'm not scum, or if the voting swings more towards West, would you stick to your guns on voting me since I'm so obviously scum or switch to West, since he's now also obviously scum in your mind?
Generally, I see you as being pretty disingenuous and don't like your overall interactions.
VOTE: Acryon

someone with knowledge of D2 meta should get in here and tell this guy how much I hate it when people call me scum for dumb reasons.

This is entirely true.

What do you think about Vyse, Ginko and Prawn as possible partners for Lal?

I don't think any of them are her partner. I think West is most likely for the reasons I stated, and without looking with confirmation bias, I couldn't tell you reasons why they would be.

So, what you're saying is "I didn't have it in my notes and my mind is thus closed to the possibility of them being Warewolves." and "Well, I'm sure if I looked for something I'd find it, so I'm not gonna look for it." Basically you've already tunnelled on what you wanted to and don't feel like scumhunting anymore. Fun.

And here we are, all caught up (finally)!
Toss the inevitable questions my way! I'll do my best to answer them in a timely manner, but as I said, will be mostly V/la until Monday.

[Aristophanes]

That was badly written on my part. My apologies.
What I'm saying is that he seems to be more worried about Mafia than Warewolves (which doesn't make sense to me because Warewolves have the nightly kill) and that the survival of both presents the same overall hindrance to town's eventual win, which doesn't seem to be a big issue to him. Both need to be eliminated to win as town.
Basically I'm just not getting his logic.

I do, maybe, need to take a step back. I suppose a lot of this could just be playstyles clashing. I do want to hear from Acryon on this stuff though, and will have to decide afterwards what I think about him. The vote stands for now though.
I hadn't realized I hadn't really said anything to/about West in that post. I'm gonna have to do a readback and see where I stand on him, because I've already had drastic shifts in that a few times.
From what I can see he's resumed his usual town-leadery, asks a lot of questions role, which I usually like. Without looking back though, that's all I've got on him.

[Aristophanes]

My apologies, but I got called into work for another long-ass shift tomorrow. I will still make a post, just expect it to be much later in the evening and to be mostly sleepy.

Damned snowstorms...

[Aristophanes]

Really sorry guys, I got busy again. I'll be here tonight, I promise! If not, I'll ask for a replacement. But I will be here and hopefully have some good insights. Just allow me time to get home and read up!

Thanks for understanding

[Aristophanes]

Cheet's coming back? Awesome! Too bad we're losing Acryon though.
Still going to address things from him regardless.
And Young being gone is sad. Welcome Jordan!
Just to let people know, Young has been busy in the last few games I've played with him and has had to sub a couple times I believe. Gliffie also gets quite busy. I don't think either of them had alignment indicative silences. I know not if the case is the same with Jordan though.

@Acryon: If you are still saying it because of the posts exclusively made to say he lacks time, then no (and it is part of a grander definition of the word not an equivalence, but whatevs).

I would say it's a helping of that along with some tone that I don't see coming from town like in post 197 for instance. Needless fluff post.

I don't see what's wrong with this post. I made posts 196, 197, and 199 (the latter being a larger one) all within 15 mins of each other. How is the one in the middle bad? Sure, it's "needless" I suppose, but it neither prod-dodged nor distracted from what was going on. I fail to see the harm or anti-town motivation one could get from it.

So I've made it to page 6 and there is absolutely no reason this shouldn't end in a perfect town win.

Looking forward to, maybe, some sort of follow-up to this with reads and a vote?

Farside, what's this thing you're on about with Lyserg voting Metal when he actually voted Acryon? Were you just confused or what? Does it change your thoughts any? Like, basically your last 3 posts totally confused me.

Also, you asked for reads again, yes?
I'd be most okay with an Acryon lynch, but Metal is also cool to go if we so desire.

Town-ish vibes go to Lyserg and Prawn. Yourself as well, Farside, but a little weaker.

Null on Jordan, Ginko is a null with a slight town lean, West is null with a slight scum lean. Both of these leans are quite slight, but that's where my head is at on them.

Anyway, Sleep time now. Should be on tomorrow. Probs missed stuff, so please yell at me about it.

[Aristophanes]

Okay, thanks Farside. Thay makes more sense now and I look forward to his response. To me I see town play from Lyserg, but I have played many games with him and sometimes that can put blinders on, so keep it up.

Later Acryon. Looking forward to seeing how your replacement will react in his spot.

Sometimes I just wanna
get away

wth is this?

Tainted Love I think?

[Aristophanes]

Pisskop, please can you delve more into what's wrong with post 591? I don't see what's so wrong with it and would love some elaboration. Also, you mentioned an AtE in post 719 which I don't recall, nor do I read, in that post. Where is my AtE and what does it mean to you? How am I "just flying under the radar" with this? Also, theorizing on the night kill seems useless. How are we to know that the kill wasn't submitted for Orc at the beginning of the night with no notice of the replacement? How do we know if it was changed form someone else because the "new set of eyes" was unwanted? This is all Wine and I see no point in it.

It was noteable because it was a point of reference for later. This particular mark indicates that he did not read around the beginning of the D2. Post 450 and 451 are square at the top of page 19, and the one before it details his replacement.
Ari did not read, forgot in the moment, or 'faked' it. I think he didn't read.
It doesn't make him scum; nor is it particularly alignment indicative by itself. But it paints a picture of his playstyle and personality.

I had read that Orc was replaced during the night, yes. Did I remember by whom? Not enough to know them by an acronym, especially since they didn't post at all, having died in the night.

dah. he's dead. I said my eyes glazed.

Are we to read this and paint the same picture of yourself as myself, then? Seems like the same issue. It's the same kill, did you not read the thread yourself? I don't really see the point in bringing this up. People make mistakes. Honestly, I can see yours being more easily scum trying to appear town than mine being so, but as Cheet said, it's also so full of Wine and I don't feel like getting drunk on that tonight.

Sorry I missed your questions, Lyserg!

Spoiler: Answers to Lyserg Below.

{1} @Ari:

Can't remember what pinged originally. Not liking his interactions though. I feel they're more than the "just metal being metal" we've seen in past games.

Be more specific please.

{2}

I didn't post the vote solely to test Metal. Maybe I should have waited for him to respond before I came in with my follow-up, but I'm rather happy with the results and have no regrets about it. I wantedgeneral reactions to the vote more than his reaction to being voted.

I mean, hindsight's 20/20 I guess =/. Curious, what did you make of people's reactions other than Lal's?

{3}

I hadn't realized I hadn't really said anything to/about West in that post. I'm gonna have to do a readback and see where I stand on him, because I've already had drastic shifts in that a few times.
From what I can see he's resumed his usual town-leadery, asks a lot of questions role, which I usually like. Without looking back though, that's all I've got on him.

What happened to your suspicion that West could be on a scumteam with Lal?

{4}

Secondly, how can you possibly be so sure you've got scum pegged down right now? And if I'm not scum, or if the voting swings more towards West, would you stick to your guns on voting me since I'm so obviously scum or switch to West, since he's now also obviously scum in your mind?

@Acryon: Can you answer the last part of this (about sticking with your vote or not). I want to yell at Ari about it but I think you didn't answer to that in your response to him.

{1}I'll work on re-iso-ing Metal, but I have this nagging sensation that he is shifty in how he's peen going about things this game. I will get back to you on this.
{2} Acryon: I liked that he came back at Lal with some good points. He caught her really well there. Alignment indicative? Well, he's not a Werewolf, that's for sure. Otherwise, hard to tell in this game. That he used it to hone in on her solely and not broaden his questioning feels scummy, but in talking to him I see that's his style, and was a great amount of my scumreading him.
Lyserg: I liked where he went with the questioning on this. Good reactions in my books.
West: Responded to it in post 189 and I feel like he was trying to make my out to be scummy. How he got "I'm scum, so let's fuck with people" from "Vote: Metal" is beyond me. I don't recall questioning him on that and it's too late now, but it feels like he was just trying to push the lynch on me. Actually, that whole post makes me understand the "West-Wolf" theories a whole lot more!
Farside: Kinda ignored it and only used it to question Orc's lack of vote. Doesn't tell me much, and said she's used to "reaction hunters" meaning probably purposely avoided talking about it. @Farside, did you get anything from the reactions there or no?
{3}I was kinda stretching my thoughts a bit. When I said it, I had Lal and Metal on the same team, and it made sense that West would be the third if they were a three-man team. When Lal flipped Werewolf, I had to rethink this and dropped West in that consideration. In rereading his posts around that time, as noted above, I'm considering he may have been with her regardless. Need to do an ISO proper on him as well.
{4}My point in this question was to see the extent of Acryon's willingness to tunnel onto a single wagon, even if another, which he thought was on scum gained more popularity. That I was right on this point makes me think him scummy all the more.

@Pisskop: I know this seems like an unnecessary question, but did you ever play with someone named Nettenette?

From my pov things just seem odd.
I'm sticking with metal but I'd vote ari again.

Where did this come from? What is making me a viable lynch to you?

[Aristophanes]

Hey Lyserg, I did that Iso of Metal I promised!

Spoiler: @Metal. Everyone else, read if you like.

Okay, so I guess I should actually partake of this game a bit more than I have been, so here are my thoughts on everyone that I have actually formed an opinion on thus far (if a person isn't listed I haven't gotten a good read on them):
acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.
Aristophanes: As others have pointed out Ari has just seemed scummy. From playing with him I don't ever recall him being as sloppy with his posts as he has been (who does he think he is me lol).
farstefan - Has this person posted yet? Are they being replaced
Ginko - So far Cheet being Cheet. I really need to learn how to read him better.
Lalendra - Needs to participate. Your 30th birthday was 3 days ago now come on old lady lets go (I'm so dead IRL)

To address some things that were addressed towards me:
I removed my vote from orcinus because I no longer needed the "pressure vote" (as someone called it) and 63 gave me an answer I was looking for why he was just throwing around the random votes
Orcinus you said I'm "self-concerned and not legitimately curious". I am self concerned, I'm not sure who to trust yet and I don't want to be lynched so I can keep playing. I am curious about things but I know the questions to ask, I'm not very good with my wording.
And the reason why I was waiting so long to really post is because I was waiting for some of the people who haven't posted or at least significantly posted to post on the current events, but to keep things moving here you go

So my biggest Scum read is Ari
Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.
VOTE: Aristophanes

Feel free to ask me anything I missed.

Metal here makes a big thing of his reads when they are, in fact, all nulls other than his scum lean on me. I feel like he was trying to make it sound grander than it was. Also, you'll notice a theme in all of his posts in D1 where he reduces Ginko strictly to Cheet, and says he has a hard time reading Cheet at all. This isn't helpful to anyone and I don't get why it was brought up so often.
Also, his reason for a scum-lean on me is because I was "sloppy"? This comes soon after I made a coding error on a new site. I know it's the coding error he's referring to because he makes a joke about it "Who does he think he is, me?"
When asked about it in the quote below, though, he makes up something about how I'm "joking around more" and it's "hard to explain." I don't believe this. I always joke around at the beginning and he knows this. Why not just say it was the coding thing?

@Metal:

acryon & orcinus_theoriginal: feels like they are on the same team I don't know if that is town, mafia, or wolf but they seem to be on the same page.

Acryon has my best town read and to stick with my reasoning above puts Orcinus in the town category as well.

Can you expand on your first quote? While I can understand feeling like a couple of players are possible allies, I'm not sure I get how this can also apply to townies on a game without masons or anything like that. Associative read aside, why is Acryon a town-read to you in the first place?

My town read on Acryon comes more after he and Orc were going back and forth during post 125-127. He had just said prior that he had a town read on Orc but was still mostly disagreeing with someone he has cleared for at least D1.
Acryon and Orc being teammates is from their interactions, they were getting some good discussion from each other instead of the typical accusation and defensive statements I've usually seen.

Can you tell me exactly which of Ari's posts or points are sloppy to you?

Ari seems to be joking around more, his posts just don't read right to me. Sorry I know that's not super helpful but I'm going off the way I'm reading it and it's hard to explain.

Also in this post, note his comments on Orc/Acryon. He says they seem on the same side and that they seem town. He waffles a lot on the reading of them, but settles always on them being on the same team. Once Orc flips town, when questioned on whether that makes him read Acryon as town, he backpedals on his linking of them and says there's nothing to it because townies don't know who else is town. #505 "Lyserg and Ari asked me about Acryon. Yes, my opionion of Acrycon has changed since Orc flipped town. It truely looked like thier interactions were teamed based but since Orc could not have known what team Acryon is on the interactions look more innocent. So I'm taking Acryon off my scum list for the time being."
Also, his read on the first quote says Acryon and Orc are likely on the same team, whether that be Town, Scum, or Werewolves. Why the sudden backpedal?

Ginko - A little less active than I remember Cheet normally being, don't know if this has to do with him hydraing with Johnny (whos game I can't really recall), otherwise they have had some good posts. town lean I guess I've never been able to read Cheet in D1.

Ginko wrote:What's your general perception of Ari's towngame?

Sorry I thought I've anwsred this already, apperently I'm stupid and haven't. Ari's general town game, as I've seen it, has been that of leader of town and trying to get people to follow him. I haven't been getting that this game. I also don't think town Ari is as bad as he has been.

Oh look, another uncommitted Ginko read. Like I say, I don't know what to read from this other than him keeping his option open to reading them either way, which is a common scum thing to do.
Also, he said my game is bad. Words hurt you know!
And I tend not to be the town leader-y type until around the third day imo. And when there are others in that role, I usually take a step back. Is this meta of me fabricated or do we perceive my gameplay differently? Perhaps another D2er would be able to clarify this.

I think I'm gonna stop quoting here because I feel like it's making this seem like an awful lot more daunting than it is.

#263 I can't remember why I linked this at the beginning of all of this, but I think it was something important. Leaving it here until it comes to me.

That last post from Ari is more the Ari I've come to know. No questions at this time.

So, all I have to do is post a wall and all is well?

A few thoughts:
Acryon called me out for making "unnecessary posts" and the like and, as I mentioned before, used an example that wasn't really a fluff post at all and was basically sandwiched by actual content by myself. That he never did the same to you makes me raise an eyebrow. Half of your iso is inconsequential posts, be them jokes, quips, side comments, patriot related things, or small answers to small questions that really could have waited. If he were to call anyone out on that I feel it should have been yourself. This furthers my thoughts on both Metal and Acryon being scum together.

Also, I can't believe your whole argument on me is figuratively just GUT!
Like, make better scum reads, please! Have some sort of reason. Something to quote. Anything!
You've liked some of my posts, yet no change to this gut? I feel like you're just pushing my lynch because it should be an easy one.

Tl;dr
I think Metal is Scum with Acryon.

I am okay with either lynch, so at this point my vote stands as it is. If we decide to switch to Metal, I am all aboard because he seems extremely scummy to me. I just don't want to switch and split the votes with only a day left to vote and a bunch of people MIA.

[Aristophanes]

Lyserg: Your off-the cuff mutterings and the fact that it made it into your post without being the main thing in it are two of the reasons I liked the response. Had you been scum I would have expected a more cautious approach to it.
On NKA: I found what Johnny said reasonable enough to give a slight consideration to. NKA can be helpful in certain ways, but using it to spin wild theories gets us nowhere. Johnny made a quick point and moved on. Trying to figure out if the Werewolf was trying to avert a new set of eyes, trying to go for a safe kill, trying to get rid of a potential good player subbing in, trying to kill the other type of scum, etc are of no help to us unless they point you in a certain direction or can back up an argument. Because of the sub (which I keep forgetting happened), almost all NKA surrounding Orc/TTH's death is purely wine and speculation. It gets us nowhere at all. Johnny merely went "not a D2er, so one of ou probably didn't make the kill" and "he was a safe kill" both of which I agree with. Once I realized Orc was replacing out and that all the NKA was mumbo-jumbo because of it, I decided it was not worth my time and called it out. I hope that rambling made sense.

Pisskop: Until recently, I didn't see Farside scumreading me. Sure, questioning around me, but that's what we're supposed to do, right?
Also, I thank you for that break down. It may not seem important to you, but I need to see where I appear scummy to you, otherwise how can I defend myself.
I'll drop the TTH thing and the Orc thing. Sorry for bringing them up when they don't necessarily pertain to alignments. I thought the Orc thing was valid at the time of posting, but obviously not anymore.
My read on Metal was not intentionally vague. I had not had the time to look back and could not remember specific incidences. I have since done so. does this change your thoughts on that point at all?
Reads-wise, didn't I just give out a reads list?
On the Prawn issue of me not "being serious" and not asking him to clarify on the questions I'd asked: I'm really not used to the long days and by the end of them forget what I posted at the beginning of them. I'm the same way with longer games, but with long cycles I get lost a little more obviously. I'd forgotten I'd even asked him things, though looking back, it was just the question on me being "conf-town" which he's kinda explained, even if not satisfactorily, already.

I am, as I said, alright with either a Metal or a Pisskop vote. I have a crazy theory developing that makes me even more okay with either lynch.
Deadline is in about 7 and a half hours, and I will be up and on my way to work at that time. I will check in and make the appropriate hammer as necessary as long as there are enough votes in place to do so.

So for now, I'm just gonna UNVOTE: so that you can all set it up appropriately.

[Aristophanes]

Hi, here as promised.
Sad we're ever so close to mislynch territory

Theory will have to sit for a bit. Sorry I'm not elaborating, all in good time!

VOTE: Pisskop
It's our best chance at a majority right now.

I'm off to shower, hoping some ppl pop in before I get back!

[Aristophanes]

I dislike no lynch situations. *sigh*

PK, who would you consider Metal's antagonizers?

[Aristophanes]

Nice shot werewolf!

Now, why do I have a wagon on me already!?
What did Gliff/Young/Jordan do that makes me scum!?
(I'll iso them now, but I don't recall anything)

[Aristophanes]

Oh, this makes more sense post-iso.

What to say...
In reading Young's iso, I noted him making an odd claim at a Lyserg/West scum team with no explanation. I see no reason for Lyserg to be scummy and am still extremely torn on West. Probably at least one is town, my guess being Lyserg. West could still go either way, but w/e.

Gliffie and Young both voted for/commented on Ginko/Cheet quite a bit.
Gliff I know likes to distance early on but is not big on a bus. Young is fine with them and may have been distancing. I think this a good possibility.
Jordan was no help other than his liking of the Metal and Acryon/Pisskop wagons. This doesn't mean he's not on a team with them or that they are not scum of some sort. This shouldn't excuse the scum reads people had pre-flip.

If you guys want a faster lynch on me, lemme know so I can go verbal diarrhea with theories and stuff first, alright?

[Aristophanes]

@Farside
When reading the ISOs I knew those would be the two biggest quotes against me.

I would argue that he was buddying me.
He was slightly lurky, as have all 3 been in that spot, so he may have anticipated a lynch on him and tried to link us (leading to this exact scenario)
Alternately, he could easily have been buddying so that if the likely lynch on me went through, he would appear towny for his scepticism in the matter. I'm a very common early lynch, so I would argue the latter moreso, but both are possible and non-mutually exclusive.

Why would he be so blatant in his commentary on a scum buddy??

[Aristophanes]

I agree, it was just a thought. I would, as I say, argue the latter far more.

I unvoted for the exact reason I said I did. Bear with me as I explain this logic, because it is somewhat circular, but to me makes sense.
I wanted a lynch on one of them and said I would be back to hammer. The unvote was so that the numbers pre-hammer were accurate. If I had kept my vote on PK and a 5th person voted, I didn't want someone else to not vote, assuming I'd cover the hammer. As well, if a Metal lynch was more desirable, as people weresplit, I did not want to force the lynch I to either direction. I came back and voted where Iit had the most potential to lynch when I said I would. I don't see a problem with that.
Why does it bug you, Lyserg?

I didn't vote hoping others would chime in or something. Oh well, may as well since everyone is v/la it seems.
VOTE: Metal
I'm still okay with either lynch.

Ninja'd
Cool

[Aristophanes]

Pisskop
I'll let others answer that one.

[Aristophanes]

By mislynch I meant no lynch. Simple mistake, and I apologize if it confuses things. Hadn't even noticed that mistake.

[Aristophanes]

Any contributions to the current conversation, Metal?

[Aristophanes]

Sorry, I was walking home. Realized on reread I should say that in clear English.

Metal
Currently you and I have two votes each. These are based, partially, off of analysis of Young and Jordan's posts.
Why are you not addressing the votes on you or the points brought up, yet still commenting on the kill.

You were pushing the Jordan Trio as scum for lurking in the past. How is it "dumb luck" that they were scum?
Your posts there basically tell us nothing and are active lurking, despite appearing topical. Why no content in them?

[Aristophanes]

Farside
What does Young voting Lal have to do with your case against him buddying me?
I don't see how you got there.

[Aristophanes]

Well, don't I feel like a jerk now!
Good work, Metal! Hope the kid is alright!

So, basically all you got from the Trio was a bit of possible scum distancing with Young and I, and a lack of anything from Jordan in mentioning you and Acryon/Pisskop's lynches being alright?

Do you find me scummy or think we're barking up the wrong tree here?
Do you have a current reads list? I'd be interested to see where your head is at since, from what I can see, I'm your main/only scum lean right now.

Also, I had the same problem with the spoiler tag (luckily previewed first).
You have to use the

Spoiler:

one it seems for it to work.

[Aristophanes]

Also, why no vote?
Or are you as unsure where your reads stand as I am?

[Aristophanes]

I still don't get your last point, Farside. I may need it translated. Because like, you say it made no difference where his vote landed, so how does it make me scum that he chose Lal? Your whole arguement seems to me to be "well, since he didn't vote you, you could possibly be scum." But had ge voted me after all that, it would likely be "he voted you after all that? Scum distancing." Would it not?
I just don't see how this is an argument against me.

As for the unvote, well, it didn't effect anything anyway, and I think it quite reasonible. I may think in unconventional ways, but I stand by it regardless!

[Aristophanes]

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks!

Please, when I flip town, go for Metal.

[Aristophanes]

And by third scum you mean Werewolf/second mafia, not third Mafia, right?

Haha it was a wolfy word play, because why not
I know people hate this kind of theory talk, but if I were to flip town, where would your head be at?
Who would you look at next?

I still like you as my main scum prospect, but something is telling me PK's last post (which I may have agreed with too quickly) could be scum trying to easily create a double-town-lynch.

Also, where are Vyse, Cheet, Prawn, and West??
It'd be nice to hear from you guys!

P-edit
Farside, same Q. If I flip town, would that clear West? Where would you look next for scum in that situation?

[Aristophanes]

Try not to break your screen - or your head - while doing so Cheet! I hear concussions are no fun!

Metal
You would look at West as Werewolf either way, I get that. But who would your candidates be for Mafia?

I need people to start theorizing so my death isn't in vain!
I may have accepted it, but I still want to contribute as much as possible!

Plus, just think. If I am scum, just ignore everything I've said today.

[Aristophanes]

In that quote he was answering me.

He had said you and I were his scum suspects and he wasn't sure of the third. I was clarifying what he meant as there are only 2 mafiascum left.
He replied here that I would be mafia, my teammate unknown, and you would be werewolf.
He's still unsure of second maf and has no theories should I flip town.

[Aristophanes]

My West read there (or lack thereof) is conflicted, not a null. I have been going back and forth on him a lot in my head and have yet to reconcile that.

This stupid theory of mine is probably nothing, alas I have had no way to confirm a thought which would either confirm or debunk the whole thing. I am currently leaning more towards it being debunked, but I will let you know my thoughts once that's an actual thing. I'm really not trying to be cryptic here, that's just all I have right now.

As for Young/Acryon interactions, I'll have to read back again and won't have time to do so until late tomorrow (working a long shift).

[Aristophanes]

It is. I'll be here later (9ish).
Hold off on hammer plz

[Aristophanes]

Here we go!
Thoughts and stuff contained below.
(I meant 9pm est. That's when I started this post more or less.)

First off, I guess I'll claim VT, though there's not much else anyone else would say unless the cop-thing (whatever it's called) got a positive read and wanted to buzz that in (There's only one wolf. If you read them, claim and kill them!)

I've made my case for Metal and we all know where the two of us stand on one another.

Pisskop still tingles me as a bit off but this past phase he's seemed a lot less scummy than before. I am still not the hugest of fans but I think he may be genuine in his hunting.
If anything he could be Wolfy, but I don't know about that.

Lyserg has seemed fine to me all the way through and I stand by that. He doesn't rub me the wrong way in current play, nor when compared with his meta. I would argue town.

Prawn I've also liked for the most part. He may be a tad odd in some of his thoughts, like making me a conftown and such, but I see nothing of malice from that spot either. His lack of posts bugs me more for wanting of contribution than any scum-lurk type of thing.

I keep forgetting Vyse is even here. And now he's not even here anymore. I don't know what to say. Unsure if scummy or what.

Farside seems to be pushing whatever's popular. I feel like her questions are bleh and aren't really followed up on. More scummy than a lot of them.

Cheet I liked as the hydra and haven't seen anything to deter from that.

West is still possible scum, but I'm once again really torn on that. I don't think he can get to Lylo, but he's also had some good thoughts.

I'm a lot more tired than I thought I'd be and my grand contributions I promised are forgotten. My apologies!
Let's make this easier though...
Possible Mafia: Farside, Metal
Possible Wolf: Pisskop, West
Possible Town: Lyserg, Prawn, Cheet
Unknown: Vyse

I'll just go quietly into death now.
Hammer away!

[Aristophanes]

I'm not sure if that's Freddy Mercury.
Who is that?

Definitely Freddie Mercury!

[Aristophanes]

Westwolf is kind of a vestige of my past reads on him. I don't feel comfortable to make a town argument for him and it seems the likeliest alternative case.

Farside, as I said, just seems to ask things and then sit back. Doesn't do anything analysis-wise. When she does, I read it as very fence-sitty or not directly game related.
It might be all the one-off posts and a little Omgus feeling, but I think it could be an actual tell.
She had a theory of Young/Jordan as Werewolf, but never really pushed it and other than that barely had any mention of them. May have been distancing, while still having the plausibility to say "I knew he was some sort of scum at least" if questioned. I feel like I'm reaching now. Sorry.

Hahaha Oh Lyserg!
Crazy theory may not be as crazy, just I was making too many connections in my head at once. It may or may not pan out in time, but I'll see from the sidelines I guess. I'll tell you afterward if you're still interested XD

I just lost a lot of the malice I was feeling from Acryon's posts. When you questioned if we were just going at it because of gameplay differences I decided to give that a thought. I held my read on PK for a bit but it just doesn't seem as strong now, so I think that may have been the issue.
I wish it were more revolutionary. I think I had a better reason yesterday, but like I say, I've just plain forgotten lol

PK is that last post at me or Lyserg?

[Aristophanes]

Also, are you guys referring to YYR as Young?

Also, hi. Reading at the moment. For reference, people call me Young for those that don't know me.

[Aristophanes]

I didn't really get much from a reading of Lal tbh. I'll reread this post and do an Iso on Cheet/Ginko tomorrow as I'm just not all here atm.
Sorry guys!

[Aristophanes]

I would still feel more comfortable with a lynch on Metal, Pisskop, or myself today.
Any one of these is an informative lynch and can lead us in the proper direction.

I know I'm not scum, but if it helps clear things up, get rid of me.
If you doubt my scumminess, keep me around.

I'd post better, but off to work. I know I promised stuff for today but that'll have to be tomorrow.

And I'm not saying an info-lynch is what we need right now, but we are the three most consistent scum reads through this game and have interactions which should lead to a town win I think. High chance at least one of us is scum.

[Aristophanes]

I can't say I did a complete read back, but I have read the back anf forth here and am still not on board with a Cheet lynch. He's pretty much been a town read all game for me relooking at his early play doesn't change that.

As he said, why would he be so overt about defending a scummate. I know whoevevr lost Lal D1 is in a crap situation, but Cheer wouldn't have fought for her like that so early. I just can't believe that.

I still say PK, Metal, or myself are the best lynch.
@Lyserg, this isn't me calling death upon me but seeing the realistic situation.
Also, haven't had the time to get an argument on what we'll learn from each of the three, but I'll get to that. I thought I'd have more time while getting ready for my mom's wedding today.

Metal, what was with that question to Farside and Cheet??
Did you really expect them to go "I was avoiding a scummate's lynch so I didn't show up"? Of course they weren't aroundabd that's all they've got. It's especially believable being between 1 and 7am we needed them. I just want to know what the point was to that.

I may be on between things today, but probably not until tomorrow evening/Monday sometime.

Also, inb4 "Ari was active when in the hot seat but disappeared as soon as he was out of it."
I had a nice bit there where I was less busy. It happened to fit into this time frame. That's all.

[Aristophanes]

I'm here and reading up. Don't think I missed too much this time!

Albert B. Rampage, welcome!
Care to explain this vote against Pisskop?

[Aristophanes]

Also, inb4 "Ari was active when in the hot seat but disappeared as soon as he was out of it."
I had a nice bit there where I was less busy. It happened to fit into this time frame. That's all.

I've thought about this for a bit.
I was bothered that ari wasn't around day 2 very much and now that there is pressure he is posting.
Either way I look at it I see metal as scum or wolf so I'm going to go this way.

Vote: metal

I mean, believe me if you like. If not, w/e.
Is Metal your biggest scum read right now?
Besides us two, who else pings your scumdar?

Prodge. Still haven't settled on who the best kill is for today. I'm okay with metal I think, but I'm also considering a west9 scumworld.

Are these two reads still predicated on a PK town flip, as you mentioned in an earlier post?

Theory 2

If pisskop is not scum and we truly did no lynch by accident, I'd say

West9 or Metal are scum.

In which case there's a West9 or Metal (not both), ~Jordan`, some other dude triscumverate.

Any thoughts on this?

Pk, I'm sorry, but I still see Cheet as town.
His brazen, guns-a-blazin' tactics are usual for him, and when asked, he does tone it down as much as possible. It's just his style.
He is still entitled to get offended by things. I don't even get why that would be a tell.
I have also often seen him take a break from a game to calm down as he does get really into them.
None of this is alignment indicative.

Your other arguments seem like stretches to me and in some cases I don't even see where you're getting what you're trying to say out of a post.

Other than all this, nothing much has happened. I would like to see where this Farside/Cheet conversation goes.

[Aristophanes]

Is that gut too?

Have you head back in the game Al?
Metal, how is it "fair enough" that his vote is gut?
Why not question that?

There's been plenty going on recently with PK, as well as a wealth of posts from previous in the game.
Please expand on both if these reads.

What are your reads on Metal and I?
What about Cheet?

I'll be on tomorrow to answer other stuff, sorry for not right now.

[Aristophanes]

I apologize again for a proddodging post.
I will be here in a few hours.
May still be a quicker post, but it should at least address current stuff and questions.

[Aristophanes]

@Lyserg
In that Ladd post you quoted a bit ago, that was in fact myself posting (Brandon really wasn't fond of it tbh).
It's a sentiment I still hold. I either need to be lynched at some point soon or trusted as town, because in a Lylo situation I don't want to lose us the game by being an easy lynch-to-victory for scum.
I still like my Cheet townread. I'm not married to it, but it's one of the more solid ones I have.
His play is what I expect from him as town and I haven't really seen much to change that.
@West, I mentioned those non-alignment-indicative things because they were arguments against Cheet that I didn't think should have been, not because I thought they made him town.

@Pisskop
What in Rampage's 5 posts there makes you think him lynch-worthy? I don't get that.

Your tone wasn't even clearly serious there, so it comes across as feeling especially sleezy to me. It seems to me like he only talked about it later because you set him up to do so.
^Everyone should make an effort to read this part of the game because I'm pretty sure West is setting Ari up here.

I hadn’t really noticed this disparity in West’s argument before, thank you for pointing it out. I’m not sure if it was West setting Ari up, or Ari stumbling/backpedaling – it still reads more to me as the latter, but it’s possible that your interpretation is spot-on.

Do you think that everyone thinks that naked votes are null? Also, she doesn't just say it's the naked vote, as she also points to finding West's points more convincing after reading them again.

I think it's really telling that she went back on this point as well, though.

Eh. Was kind of worried that I might have missed a point somewhere along the way, but she also says this:

Also the reason my reasoning for the Ari vote contains little of your argument is because I was given so much crap for agreeing with you and disliking the naked vote that I felt I should put together more solid points instead of going "yeah, what west said."

Is she really going back against your points if she later admits to this here or do you think she would blatantly backtrack like this?

Skimming past thread, and the exchange that created these two quotes stood out to me. Has anyone really talked about this aspect of the Ginko/Lal D1 interactions? Where Ginko's scumWest argument causes Lal to jump ship on Ari, and then later Ginko defends her erratic voting? It seems like Pisskop kinda skimmed past in his iso, but this is a thing I'd like people to talk about, as it's really the only time Lal interacts with Ginko at all.

See, this is the kind of thing that I can maybe get behind in a Cheet scum read.
I'm not sold on the idea, but I suppose I'll consider it.

@Farside, I don't get what this posts means. Please reexplain why this quote is here for me, since apparently I'm dumb right now.

[Aristophanes]

Black shit was supposed to be a spoiler.
Why is there a "Spoiler" and a "Spoiler=" option when the just plain "spoiler" one doesn't even fucking work!?!?!?

[Aristophanes]

Well, this is a thing that's happening...
I would love to defend myself againt what a dead guy said, but okay.

Working until 6 today. (Est)

also, vt lol

[Aristophanes]

Don't forget, the only claim one can make unless claiming/fakeclaiming seeris vt. Claims aren't really helpful at this point.

[Aristophanes]

Holy balls, I missed the party! Why did nobody invite me?

Really though, that was quite the quickwagon. It felt really icky the whole way through to me, and I like how West reacted there. He can stay.
Metal and PK are still good lynches.
Cheet I started getting weird vibes from in his West push/questioning, but he then shifted off it. I'm gonna have to reread the interactions there to sort out how it made me feel, but with the shift back to Metal from him I'm more inclined to stick with my initial town read on him.
PK pushing for Wolf lynch makes me feel really bad about him. I think he is scum. Once Wolf is gone, no nk, which though helpful, makes scum so easy to blend in. All they have to dp is sit back and agree with towny motions. This will make them increasingly hard to sniff out. Their biggest chance of losing is from Wolf kills.
We really Really should kill him tomorrow.
I get bad vibes from ABR too but I have to reread him too.

Who did I miss...
Prawn is still cool but has got to stop proddodgong and maybe post something with analysis and more than one line of text.
Farside is meh. I go both ways on that one, but definitely less likely scum than a lot of tye others.
Lyserg I still kinda like, but I have, and probably always will have, Lyserg-Is-Town Syndrome, so ky read there is less than trustworthy.

I don't know how I ended up with no votes on me, but I'm not complaining lol

[Aristophanes]

PK pushing for Wolf lynch makes me feel really bad about him. I think he is scum. Once Wolf is gone, no nk, which though helpful, makes scum so easy to blend in. All they have to dp is sit back and agree with towny motions. This will make them increasingly hard to sniff out. Their biggest chance of losing is from Wolf kills.
We really Really should kill him tomorrow.

What part of systematic lynches based on associations makes a wolf blend in? Do explain your angst.

I said the Mafia want wolf gone so they can blend in. Wolf is easier to catch because they make night kills. Wolf may kill mafia at night, and they don't like that idea. Once wolf is gone they can go all chameleon on us and we're boned.

Where did I say the wolf can blend in?

[Aristophanes]

Yo, Lyserg! Thanks for the vote! I was beginning to feel left out

I do think both are a huge threat to town.
I did agree with Johnny that getting rid of wolves was maybe a little more of a priority.
I've changed my mind.

I still want to get rid of any scum. That is our goal. If I think someone is scum, they will get noted and get a vote.
I don't think focusing solely on Wolves is a good idea right now because scum could definitely easily hide.
If west, for example is wolf and we kill him tomorrow, awesome. By that point we are at 6 people. PK and myself have a lot of suspiciin on us. Id bet I'd die first, then PK. guess what, IF we are both town, scum has just won!
That we have so many built up associative tells means nothing unless we get another Mafia flip.

** Note: names used in this example are interchangeable. **

I do think it's scummy that PK is going solely for Wolf-scum. He has a way of talking until he's out of things, or so it seems.
He's already setting up a future ABR lynch if West comes out as town.
He really needs to die tomorrow.

[Aristophanes]

(Tbh I remember agreeing with Johnny but not what about. I'm too lazy to check back so I'm gonna assume Lyserg is truthing. As I said though, my viewpoint has changed. Sorry I guess?)

[Aristophanes]

I want to vote for West right now but I'm not gonna end the phase this fast.

Pk I still get scumvibes off of.
If not, abr or prawn I guess.

Cheet is still town imo and Far is conf now I guess.

Cheeto, what makes me seem like the last scum?
I've been at odds with Metal the shole game. Do you think I'm faking that?

[Aristophanes]

Actually, just realized it takes 4 to lynch.

Not gonna push it to L-1 tho yet.

[Aristophanes]

Pk, you now have 3 options only for Wolf. You've been pushing a wolflynch pretty hard.
Of the three, who is wolf? Why no vote yet?

[Aristophanes]

I keep seeing Prawn post in the other game he's in and thinking it's here and getting really excited, then really disappointed.

Hey Prawn!!!
Read this shit and GET YOUR ASS IN HERE!

[Aristophanes]

Pk, you now have 3 options only for Wolf. You've been pushing a wolflynch pretty hard.
Of the three, who is wolf? Why no vote yet?

Things lioke that after making the last three posts you did make you look scummy, just fyi. I didnt vote because I didnt want a lynch yet. And I didnt say that because I don't need to impress anyone.

I don't see how this makes me look scummy, but okay.
I was asking why you didn't vote. Just because I am not ready to doesn't mean you aren't.
Thanks for letting me know though.

Does this mean you want to vote for West?

[Aristophanes]

As if you are hunting the last scum, but without associative talls from past teammate flips.

So basically, from gameplay, who flipped up as dead, and tone generally.
It's possibly slightly easier since we have Lal interactions, but how reliable those are we don't know.

And you're only 2 days newer than I here Js.

Ninja'd
Yeah, by doing what West is doing!

[Aristophanes]

@Aristophanes What is SK tone?

That really depends who the SK is.
It is approached differently by each player. Generally there is something noteable about phrasing, surprise at flips, etc. but not always.
Some sound just really scummy.

There is no universal "SK tone" or it'd be easy

[Aristophanes]

Prawn
Rather than asking me how to read an SK last night, why didn't you look back at West and I, and Lal since we're fortunate that it isn't an SK and there are associative tells?
If you did, can you tell us what you found?
If you didn't, can you get on that?

I reread Lal and from that alone, West seems the more likely Wolf.
There is distancing, a couple instances that look like coaching, and she seems to give everything he says so much more weight.

She also had a solid town read, as opposed to the wishy washy scum read on Prawn. I don't know which is more likely from scum Lal. I'm forgetting her reads from our scum game together. I'm going to look into that but I won't have an answer until tomorrow (unless I get ambitious at some point soon).
From what I remember though, she gave null-town reads on us, which is why I'm leaning West on that last point.

[Aristophanes]

This Game is the one where Lal {GimmeABreak85} and I were on a scum team together. In reading her Iso, look at how she treats PandoranPsycho, another scummate.
She calls him a hard town read early in the game with little reason. She interacts around her scummates a lot too, but tries to be indirect, as I see here with West.
I feel like here it translates into "using" West's Metal/Ari argument though still skirting it somehow, as well as being he only hard town read she had really. These are my reasons, within the Lal reasoning, for West as Werewolf.

I won't be voting until Prawn does something, unless deadline comes first. Lol

[Aristophanes]

Obviously not. I just kinda want ppl to weigh in.
Though, if it's not West, I know it's Prawn, so I guess there's no point really.

Screw it,
VOTE: West

[Aristophanes]

[sigh]
I'd love to hear that Prawn was wolf. But Ari is acting so darn bad.

I am?

"west is being too overdefensive"
"west didn't contribute enough"

justify all you want, but what got me lynched right now was false associative reads. i'm not bitter or anything, but please don't try to pass this off as anything other than non-wolves (including me) getting played by wolves.

if this is true, I'm sorry

[Aristophanes]

Ari, you know I think you're cool and all, but if you and I were on opposite teams again then I'm going to start enforcing a strict "always kill Ari always" rule.

Hahaha I couldn't blame you for that
I think there's a lot of ppl who would support you!

[Aristophanes]

Anyway, at work now.
Ttyl and enjoy the death thread if there is one!

[Aristophanes]

If West is not Wolf, it is Prawn.
Of that I am sure.

Farside will die tonight.
Of that I am fairly certain.

Either PK or Vyse are the last Mafia.
Of that I am less certain, but certain enough that I won't be voting Cheet unless there is an extremely good case against him.

If West is Wolf and is fucking with us, Prawn is third on that list of scum, fitting between Vyse and Cheet.
I though Cheet and Prawn were town this whole game. I may have had one wrong, but I doubt both were!

If Cheet is our last scum, nice game!

[Aristophanes]

Vyse = ABR.
I'm dumb XP

[Aristophanes]

You are wrong abr.
VOTE: Prawn
Look at metal and I.
How could I be scum with him!?
No chance.

[Aristophanes]

I'm drank. I'm not scum or werewilf. I can't see.how I could be with either metal or lal.

If we.screw.up todau, sorry.

Bit think bout it. Makes no sense.
Prawn if worl.
Abr or pk sxum. (Magia)

Easy peasy.

[Aristophanes]

Alrighty, so the Werewolf is either Prawn or myself.

I cannot see how I could possibly be linked as the last werewolf.
If Lal and I were scummates, wny would she make such a switch on me from that naked Metal vote?
Once she did, I was one of the biggest supporters of her lynch, was I not?
To bus your only scummate like that on D1 would be extremely stupid unless you found yourself in a position of basically having to do so else you also would be revealed. This was not the case when I voted.
Prawn was trying to avoid this lynch the whole time, tying Lal and I and trying to either get a mislynch on myself or to draw a nolynch. I think he knew how scummy the counterwagoning attempts would look and therefore hammered to save what town cred he could.

<snip>
Looking at the wagons, I think there are more scum on Lalendra's wagon than Aristophanes'.

Lalendra (5): acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR, Lyserg-Zeroz
Aristophanes (4): West9, Metalcyanide, farside22, Lalendra

I don't particularly care for 4 dudes on Lalendra: acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR
I don't particularly care for 2 dudes on Arisophanes: Metalcyanide, Lalendra

I'd be pretty happy with lynching one of acryon, Aristophanes, orcinus_theoriginal, YRR

Here he tries to deflect from the wagons while not linking himself to either. He picks out the people voting his scummate and says "one of these should die today" essentially. This would lessen those suspicious of Lal while keeping her alive.

The only things he's done since Lal was lynched were say that I was toan and ask the recent questions on how to catch an SK.
His "confirmed town" read on me makes sense, as it appears he didn't think me scum and KNEW I wasn't the Werewolf.
The SK questions I almost voted him for but figured my gut was off. They allowed him to appear like he was engaging without doing anything. He never went and looked at anyone. He likely expected a quick lynch, and he got exactly that. There was so much build up to West and I being scum he didn't have to do anything but sit back and wait for the day to end.

If you can think of a good reason why I would be Werewolf, please, let me know. We can't waste this day because it will be our demise!
Please look at the two of us and think about it.

Oh, and on the Drunk posts, the first one I took so much time to write, then realized I was arguing against being Werewolf with Lal not Mafia with Metal and had to make a secondary post.
I made it much more quickly and, well, there are the results. lol

@Cheet I can address the stuff that makes me unlikely as scum with Metal in the next day phase. I don't want to clutter today's proceedings.

[Aristophanes]

@Prawn
#LurkerScum #EatItBitch! XD

[Aristophanes]

I can't see it being Cheet. So either yourself or ABR.
I will have to do some research to figure out which.

Sorry I don't have an answer right now.

[Aristophanes]

I'll look at him, but I have seen only towngame from him.
Tbh I haven't looked into him much because of this, but I shall

[Aristophanes]

Pk, why were you so convinced I was wolf?

[Aristophanes]

I leave for ONE DAY and this is what happens..

For some reason I thought you were the seer for a while.
That's how warped my reads were all game.

Hey Lyserg, remember that crazy theory I had?
I thought Prawn was Seer but didn't want to risk calling out a PR.

GG Cheet! I honestly thought you town the whole game.
The only thing that made me question it was Metal's continuous "I can't read Cheet" comments.

Would have lynched ABR and PK.

Good Game Honeybee!

[Aristophanes]

I didn't townread you. Just lazy and trusted pisskop/west/ari so I lied.

lesson 1: never trust me
lesson 2: never trust ari
lesson 3: never trust ari
lesson 4: ari is the worst
lesson 5: haha jk ari's not the worst, cheet is
lesson 6: never trust ari

Hey! At least we were on the same side for once and I needn't be an insta-policy-lynch next time

Sorry I got you dead. I was so close to a Prawn vote, but when I decided it was a good idea it was too late.