Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)

[Scripten]

Nah. Don't like that idea.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Scripten]

So many people to OMGUS, so little time!

How long do you think it'd take for a wagon to form on an OMGUS vote? Do you expect that such a wagon would end in a lynch?

[Scripten]

Those two questions are awful. Is this supposed to look like you're trying to start discussion?

This answer is awful. Is this supposed to look like something other than deflection?

Nice buddying between BBT and Tiershift. Beyond that, why not answer? Give me a good reason to believe you aren't just (poorly) trying to dodge my questions.

[Scripten]

VOTE: mr ree

Don't think that was random, now was it?

Too much effort put into 'random' vote and use of 'lucky' numbers.

Let's quicklynch indeed.

VOTE: Mr Ree

Wolfy, I almost OMGUS'd you. Almost.

BBT buddies up to you.

Those two questions are awful. Is this supposed to look like you're trying to start discussion?

I feel such questions need not be answered.

You respond in kind.

We're still in the VERY beginning of the game, so it's nothing strong. Still good for later.

[Scripten]

VOTE: Scripten

PEdit - Look at the timing of those posts about poor questioning. Silly Billy.

And what's your point? He was writing the same thing you were at the same time, saw you posted, didn't see a need to make any changes before posting. Still not seeing any reason why you shouldn't answer those questions. Either of you care to enlighten me?

[Scripten]

Tiershift:

Alright, fine. How about you go ahead and explain why those questions were, as you put it, "below the mark?" While you're at it, why don't you also explain how it is anti-town to answer questions that aren't good enough for you? Excluding, of course, anti-town behavior such as rolefishing.

BBT:

Right now, it means that, for some nebulous reason, both you and Tiershift agree that dodging questions is appropriate, pro-town behavior. Is that right? I used the buddying examples to show how you both cluthtered together, twice now. Gut is pushing for you to be scum and him to be the one getting buddy'd up to.

And yes, I understand that that the timing means you wrote your posts at the same time. If you haven't noticed, the mafiascum forums

tell

you when you've been ninja'd. Even if you both wanted to say the same thing, he was fine letting you skip out on answering. Until I get a satisfactory answer as to why this is even remotely helpful, I'm going to keep pressing. It'll be easier for all of us involved if you either a) answer the initial questions or b) give a good reason not to that isn't "I'm too good for

those

plebian questions."

[Scripten]

You're really pushing this issue. You have to be scum.

Your questions were bad. How are they supposed to help you work out somebody's alignment? They were awful questions designed to look like you were prompting discussion and scum-hunting.

I'm so sure you're gonna flip scum.

Uh huh.

Well, let's see. You drop the buzzword OMGUS twice in two posts, and push for a quicklynch. OMGUS is self-centered and quicklynching is a waste of an entire day's worth of information. Combining an OMGUS vote, which you were threatening and now have on me, with a quicklynch, an idea you really like, is anti-town.

Do you see where I'm going or do I have to spell this out for you entirely?

[Scripten]

BBT:

I didn't realize that the comment toward Wolfy was a joke and not a threat. Didn't see the previous game you were talking about. Obviously the second mention of OMGUS was framed as a joke, but I saw it as you creating an atmosphere where you could push an easy day 1 lynch on a player. When I posted my questions, I was more incredulous than anything. I was under the impression that you were trying to normalize a later OMGUS vote disguised as something else. ("No way. I would never OMGUS vote anyone. Look at posts 7 and 10; I find it absolutely ridiculous.")

I'll admit I was slightly under pressure later on. I read your vote on me as that OMGUS vote I'd been expecting out of you.

[Scripten]

Alright, maybe a bit too paranoid. It's becoming a bit of a thing that I'm not particularly good at RVS/Day 1 stuff.

[Scripten]

BBT:

Post 41 is nothing but confirmation bias. I posted what was relevant to the exchange from my end and I'm not going to be baited into an ego contest. And if you're going to call out my reaction to your jokes, then why did you do the same thing here in post 7? Actually, after sleeping on this for a night, I'm going into this more.

So, post 7...

Too much effort put into 'random' vote and use of 'lucky' numbers.

Let's quicklynch indeed.

VOTE: Mr Ree

Wolfy, I almost OMGUS'd you. Almost.

You claim there's too much effort put into an RVS vote, then you vote that person. This doesn't look like RVS to me, especially with the snarky explanation about "too much effort put into RVS." Either you don't put effort into an RVS vote or you made that vote seriously. Or you're a hypocrite, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I maybe took the comment toward Wolfy too seriously. I didn't see it as sarcasm so much as a threat. My bad.

Wolfy:

Just to be sure, can you confirm that explanation, please? It's reasonable that it's a running joke, but I don't feel like taking chances.

So, basically, I voted you because of the action you took in voting Mr Ree coupled the with way you phrased that post. Sure, a joke, but if you're going to vote someone on their joke, then you should expect the same treatment in return. My questions were meant to draw attention to how you'd mentioned OMGUS in both posts you'd made more than to catch you in your answer. I've explained already how it's possible to get away with an otherwise poor vote/lynch by normalizing a game theory concept. You could have answered AND said they were poor questions, but nope, you just dodged. The fact that you dodged them made me push, because if there's one thing I've seen scum do consistently, it's dodge questions, especially ones that are easy to answer; questions that a townie would have no reason to avoid.

Again, keep in mind that I didn't realize that you had prior game experience with Wolfy or that your OMGUS thing was a running joke. I don't really do meta, and I don't know which game you are referring to anyway. You just said up and said "I'm not going to answer that." I pushed you to answer (Or even give a reason why you shouldn't answer) and you voted me here(20) with nothing else in the post. OMGUS, just like I had been expecting out of you, and you didn't even deign to answer why you were dodging questions. I ask AGAIN and you answer half my post here(23) and STILL don't either answer or explain what was wrong with my questions.

So if we were both writing the same thing, at the same time...what does that tell you about the questions you asked?

Gonna have to explain this in more detail, I see. Look, up to the point where Tiershift actually posted, he could have been writing anything. He says he missed your post, but the forums stop you from posting when you get ninja'd and show you the post that ninja'd you. It would take less than a minute to type a one-sentence agreement, so there's absolutely no reason to believe that a post that short would be made without knowledge of you posting. What's even better is that post 24 feels so fake it's not even funny. After saying he missed your answer in that earlier post, despite the fact that the forum will shove it in your face if you get ninja'd, he goes and calls you out as being a ninja in the same post. I seriously did not expect to have to explain this, but here you go. Inconsistency all the way.

So, you finally answer why the questions were poor in your eyes(27) while simultaneously saying how sure you are that I'm scum. Like... twice. Because wanting to have my questions answered instead of being talked down to is super scummy, amirite?

Pretty sure I have explained my vote on you as well. I fully expect you to get lynched when the rest of the players start the game. It's just too obvious. I don't know why my buddy Tier (who funnily enough I've never played with before) hasn't got his vote on you yet.

You should know full well that buddying has nothing to do with having known a player from a prior game.

[Scripten]

BBT:

You skipped more than half of my post by calling it "fluff." (That's yet another great diversion tactic.) The reasoning behind my questions was that I was trying to figure out if you actually thought you'd be able to pass off an OMGUS vote later in the game as a legit vote, since you'd made several jokes about OMGUS. If you can't tell how that would help me piece together your alignment, then I don't know what to tell you.

I keep explaining because you

keep not getting it

. Your entire post consists of "This isn't relevant now, because I've explained all this" when my post was written to give context for prior points in the game, namely when the posts you're referring to

didn't exist

. It's like you're intentionally being dense to avoid having to legitimately respond...

Anyway, I'm done with this discussion for now.

Everyone besides BBT & Tiershift:

I'd like to see what the rest of you players think of the current game situation.

Tiershift:

Only thing related to your play so far is here:

So if we were both writing the same thing, at the same time...what does that tell you about the questions you asked?

Gonna have to explain this in more detail, I see. Look, up to the point where Tiershift actually posted, he could have been writing anything. He says he missed your post, but the forums stop you from posting when you get ninja'd and show you the post that ninja'd you. It would take less than a minute to type a one-sentence agreement, so there's absolutely no reason to believe that a post that short would be made without knowledge of you posting. What's even better is that post 24 feels so fake it's not even funny. After saying he missed your answer in that earlier post, despite the fact that the forum will shove it in your face if you get ninja'd, he goes and calls you out as being a ninja in the same post. I seriously did not expect to have to explain this, but here you go. Inconsistency all the way.

Not really anything you really have to respond to if you don't want to. Like I said before, it's minor at the moment, but may eventually become pertinent. I only explained because I was pushed to.

[Scripten]

I think you should let that idea go, scripten.

There's literally nothing left for me to say, so I don't really have much of an option. I'm leaning toward this being a conflict between egos, but I also don't want to see this question dodging become a habit. It may have become a mafia pet peeve of mine.

Congrats on the 3000th post, tho.

[Scripten]

I got gamestart pm tho

errgh, My need to play this game interrupts my need for vengeance.

VOTE: scripten

That scummy push was scummy.

Whayyyy

Sheepity sheepsheep.

Josh_B:

Any original opinions? So far you've sheeped two players with your votes. (I think. Your first vote was accompanied by some nonsensical BS, so I don't know if you were trying to follow Tiershift or just have a vendetta(?). Is this more meta?)

At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.

Vettrock:

If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?

Tiershift:

Using pure randomness during RVS can be considered scum-sided. Do you consider purely random RVS votes to be good content for later cases or is that type of action a null tell for you?

[Scripten]

I read this a little while ago. I feel like I learned a lot from it. Of course, just like any other bit of theory, it can be manipulated. It should explain what I meant by entirely random RVS votes sometimes being considered scum-sided.

[Scripten]

I hope it's clear that I have a vendetta, because I said it. Did tiershift say the same thing I did? What makes you think that tiershift has a vendetta?

-snip-

And Script, name calling isn't going to convince me to not vote you.

Yawn. I wasn't calling you any names. Where did I call you a name? I also did not say that I thought Tiershift has a vendetta. I said that I couldn't make heads or tails of your post where you voted vettrock. I asked whether you had a vendetta or sheeping Tiershift.

And you are sheeping like there's no tomorrow. Hence my comments about it. Again, do you have

anything

original to say, or are you just going to regurgitate what's already been said?

[Scripten]

Again, yawn.

These are all the same tired old points that you started out with. I've explained my POV and if that's not good enough, then go ahead and push that lynch. I'll keep on attempting to scumhunt and actually help the town. (If we can get people to stop idling for RL days...)

[Scripten]

Actually, I have a question about 36; what exactly was you paranoid about?

I was clarifying this:

I'll admit I was slightly under pressure later on. I read your vote on me as that OMGUS vote I'd been expecting out of you.

That is, confirmation bias made me read your vote on me as OMGUS. I thought I'd explained that clearly, but apparently not. My bad.

PEdit - That's so pro-town of you to do so. I'm not scum-hunting. At all.

Tunneling a single player and barely interacting with anyone else isn't good scum hunting. It's short sighted and, in this case, wrong. Let's say you pushed that lynch on me right now. I'm going to flip to flip town and we're left with very little information. Maybe this hurts your feelings to hear, but your playstyle is more harmful to the town than my poor initial questions.

[Scripten]

Wolfy:

Do you think it's more or less likely that the scumteam is currently inactive?

[Scripten]

What else are you looking for, the exact points have already been made, and they are legit points. -Don't push shitty wagons against RVS posts, unless you want to be scum read. Generally town are more likely to question motivations before jumping to conclusions. In this case your motivations seem clear, and there's no reason to be all paranoid.

I was the one pushing a wagon? Really? BBT has a 100% TOTES SURE wagon on me that he's been preaching at people like it's the next gospel, but I'm the one pushing wagons. Kay.

And, now that you know I have an issue with Vettrock, why are you still pushing that it was sheep? I don't care if Tier voted him first. But even more seriously, a wagon is going to start sometime, and not everyone can be on it first.

I'm... not? I'm pushing that your vote/case on me is nothing but sheeping, and you're not denying it, are you? You're super concerned about your placement on a wagon, by the way.

Let me bring up a point that I don't think has been mentioned yet.

We're still in the VERY beginning of the game, so it's nothing strong.

Still good for later

.

Do you really plan on bringing this up later? Because it isn't strong at all, it's weak.

I'd bring it up again if I needed to so as to add to a later line of evidence.

FoS: Josh_B - I don't like that you have a score to settle. I don't like that you're sheeping BBT as hard as you are. I

really

don't like that you're so concerned about your image that you'll switch wagons just to be on at the right time.

[Scripten]

Don't invent shit. This is a false attribution with no basis of any truth whatsoever.

What part of the post you're quoting are you even referring to here? Are you or are you not denying that your case on me rests on sheeping BBT?

I don't care whether you like it or not, it isn't for you.

If it affects the game, then I'm going to care about it. I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not your out-of-game shit matters, but vendettas are a great way to hurt the town. Defending yours just cements my case, though to your credit you haven't kept your vote on vettrock.

Did BBT say that promising to bring up your weak push later was scummy too? Or is that not original enough

You have one factoid. Congratulations, you are a super scum hunter. I can get you a star sticker if you want. Still questioning how setting up a case for later is scummy at all, especiallu when there's been nothing prompting me to bring it up since. Sorry I'm not operating entirely on confirmation bias, I guess?

According to you, When is the right time exactly?

That's dependent on the situation. I just find the following quote rather odd:

But even more seriously, a wagon is going to start sometime, and not everyone can be on it first.

Where you are on the wagon doesn't matter. It's the case that set you up to take your vote, not where you sit on a wagon, that determines if I see you as sheeping or not. Willful ignorance of what constitutes sheeping?


Anyway, BBT actually seems relatively town to me at the moment despite the butting of heads. You, on the other hand, are actively setting off my scum radar for the reasons that drove me to put my FoS on you before along with your reactions. Let's make this vote actually work toward something.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Josh_B

That's better.

[Scripten]

Your story is changing. If you are town, and this is your normal playstyle, it's is going to lead to a lot of mislynches. If you are scum, carry on.

Changing how, just out of curiosity? All I'm doing is working with the evidence I have, which of course would make my case evolve as time goes on. That's kinda how these things work.

Your

case rests on me sheeping BBT.

Your

claim is that I am sheeping BBT. My case is that I think you are scum.

Nah, my case rests on the facts that I placed in my FoS that I put on you back here.(95) One part of that is that you're sheeping BBT. (The "original" facts you bring up I'll get to later.) There's also the vendetta, which is a null tell, since you said you wouldn't let it affect you and, as far as I can tell, have followed through. If that changes, though, I'll remember. Lastly, there's this (intentional(?)) misunderstanding you have about sheeping. It's your points, your case, that determine sheeping, not where you are on a wagon, so you bringing up where you sit on my wagon came off as strange to me. Scummy.

It's hard for me to understand you asking me what I'm referring to. You made a statement, I closed your statement and responded to that part of the statement.

I wanted to know if you were referring to:
1) My comments that you were sheeping
2) My comments that you seemed concerned about wagon placement

Then I reopened your quote, closed it off again, and responded to that part. But to repeat myself in a more detailed manner.... I don't care about my placement on a wagon. Why would I? What would make you even suggest that I care I believe that you are randomly assigning negative attributes to me when you don't even know me.

I think you're maybe taking this game a little too personally. My comments aren't to show that you care about where you sit on a wagon. They are to show that you care about what others think about your placement on a wagon, seeing as you brought it up.

(Not so) Random Question: Do you think that sheeping only refers to votes? Can a player sheep someone else without even voting for the same person?

My case on you is that you are horribly pushing a horrible case, being overly paranoid, making threats, calling names, and dismissing the evidence in favor of what you want to believe. I can provide for each of these.

I'm pushing a horrible case? Where? BBT? I'm not pushing nearly as hard as you are, nor nearly as hard as he is. (Which is probably the biggest scumtell I have on him.) Beyond that, my votes changed, if you haven't noticed, and I'm feeling much more confident in the case I'm building now. Also, what threats, my FoS and my vote? What names?

Seriously, please provide for these points, because you're making next to no sense. If you think I'm misinterpreting you, then clarify what you're saying.

If I push a case against Vettrok, it's going to be because I actually think vettrok is scum in this game. I'm allowed to RVS, or not RVS anyone I want to. Vettrok matters to me because I want to get a read on him in this game, but as you admit, I'm not going to dismiss the game just because I have some things that I want to say to someone. Actually, I admitted to that- 63 :sigh:

So... you're saying that what I said about you is true? Are you just disagreeing here for the fun of it? Because I'm not building my case on this point unless you let it affect this game. I have said this. More than once now.

1. I have multiple factoids. I'm just not going to repeat every single one of them over and over.
2. Thanks, I like stickers. I'll give you my address and you can mail it to me.
3. You're point was shitty, let it go. Don't bring it up later, or ever again. You don't need to throw past arguments in people's faces like it matters. If someone does something scummy later in the game, mention it. I've had people scum read me because I'll move on from something, find nothing else important, and then come back to an earlier comment. But I don't threaten people with nonsense.

1. You'd brought up one at the time. Uno. Ett. Ein. You've sort of brought up more since...

After I wrote the post you're referring to.

What, am I supposed to be about to debate through spacetime or something? Sorry, my PoV is linear time.
2. Maybe. If you're outside the US, I can't promise anything. International fare and all that.
3. Uhh... for one thing, it's not an argument. It was an observation. If Tiershift had continued to sheep BBT, I would have referred to my earlier post so as not to have to make the case anew. He has not, so I haven't even brought it up. You did, though, and now you're parading it around like you have found the Lost Ark.
4. I think you forgot a point. Are you going to suggest that I

am

using confirmation bias in my case against Tiershift? 'Cause that would be pretty funny. And sad.

Oh, good. This proves that you are just saying random crap to say it, and you either have no belief system or you aren't sticking to it. Because, earlier you said that I was super concerned about my placement on wagons, like it matters. Perhaps you are the one with willful ignorance of what constitutes sheeping.

This is silly. Sheeping doesn't have to have anything to do with votes. It's just a lack of original intent. (That's from the wiki, so you know I'm right.)

What I said was that you were concerned about your placement on the wagon. This is true. However, the meat of my argument is that you're super concerned about where the town sees you on a wagon. I didn't accuse you of sheeping because you made a vote against me. I accused you because all of your points were the exact same as BBT's. Do you understand? (If it helps clear things up, separate my point about your sheeping with my point about your concern over your wagon placement.)

I have done everything to prove that I have my own independent intent for both of my votes.
And BBT is neither a popular player, nor are you are you a popular wagon(yet),
I didn't vote for the sake of voting, or for the sake of following the herd.

You have, have you? Well, I guess we'll see once you answer my post here if you have all this original evidence you claim to have. The town will judge.

Ok, so you had a problem with me. Why did you wait until someone else voted me before switching your vote?

Preeeeetty sure that's what FoS means. It's finger of suspicion, if you don't know. It means that I'm ready to vote for you, but haven't yet changed my vote. I waited for your reply to vote you, actually, not another player. Note that the reason I voted you was actually written prior to anyone else voting you. Neat how the flow of time works, huh?

Also, just want to clarify. I don't have a problem with you. Frankly, I think you're probably a pretty okay dude. But in the context of this game, your play makes me think you're scum, so I'm voting you based entirely upon that. Don't take it too personal.

Anything I missed?

[Scripten]

I

really

don't like that you're so concerned about your image that you'll switch wagons just to be on at the right time.

Can you clarify where he did this please because I don't see it.

It's in the post right above yours. Specifically, when I pressed him for sheeping, he seemed to think that the fact that he was second on a wagon was more important than having no original points. To me, it's not. He could have been the first to vote me and his vote would still be based on sheeping if he wasn't actually coming to his own conclusions.

You're just supporting this by claiming infallibility on a scum read that's way too powerful for this early in the game. The way you try to push votes around also makes you look scummy from my PoV, and if I flip, I highly suspect the rest of the town to agree. Considering I have a mild town read on you atm, that's bad.

[Scripten]

What I said was that you were concerned about your placement on the wagon. This is true. However, the meat of my argument is that you're super concerned about where the town sees you on a wagon. I didn't accuse you of sheeping because you made a vote against me. I accused you because all of your points were the exact same as BBT's. Do you understand? (If it helps clear things up, separate my point about your sheeping with my point about your concern over your wagon placement.)

^ This here.

I said that pushing votes around like that looks scummy. Just because you're slightly more town in my eyes doesn't mean you've not been scumread for your play.

[Scripten]

I don't know how much more clear I can be.

BBT:

I'm quoting the part of Josh_B's post you were asking about again.

But even more seriously, a wagon is going to start sometime, and not everyone can be on it first.

Now, let's try to clear this up. This part of the post sticks out because (Pay attention here, because I've said this before.): My case on Josh_B sheeping BBT rests on the points he is bringing up, not where he is on the wagon. It was strange for you to bring up when you jumped on the wagon, by excusing yourself for not being first, even though that had nothing to do with my accusations that you were sheeping BBT

With that in mind, read the following carefully, please.

Josh_B, my problem is not about where you are on the wagon. My problem is not even that you are concerned about when you hopped on the wagon. My problem is that you are concerned about

where the town/other players see you

getting on the wagon. Like I said before, you're careful about crafting an image that you aren't too quick or too slow to jump on a wagon. Does that clear this up? I seriously can not be any more clear.

Tiershift:

Did you read the original version of my post? Each part was specifically targeting a point from Josh_B. The format was not preserved when he quoted me, so the post makes no sense.

[Scripten]

EBWOP

Josh_B:

I realize a point in my earlier post didn't make sense reading back. Here's an edited version:

It's hard for me to understand you asking me what I'm referring to. You made a statement, I closed your statement and responded to that part of the statement.

I wanted to know if you were referring to:
1) My comments that you were sheeping
**

OR

**
2) My comments that you seemed concerned about wagon placement

Also, almost everything in that quote you left there is entirely out of context. It's actually pretty frustrating how you're doing that. Speaking of which, can you please not cut out every single question I ask you and totally avoid answering anything? Like, seriously. I'm going to quote below the parts of my last post with questions that you totally ignored. Mind answering them?

Your story is changing. If you are town, and this is your normal playstyle, it's is going to lead to a lot of mislynches. If you are scum, carry on.

Changing how, just out of curiosity? All I'm doing is working with the evidence I have, which of course would make my case evolve as time goes on. That's kinda how these things work.

-snip-

(Not so) Random Question: Do you think that sheeping only refers to votes? Can a player sheep someone else without even voting for the same person?

-snip-

What threats, my FoS and my vote? What names?

[Scripten]

FoS: Wolfy

- What in the world are you doing? How did you expect to get a reaction without engaging Josh_B at all? Why are you blatantly contradicting yourself, and why are you backing down at the first sign of suspicion? And what the hell is an OMGUS doing here? Aye-yi-yi...

What I really don't understand is how people are missing my case. It's already practically in point-by-point format. My posts aren't even that long usually. I just keep quotes in them so people have context. (Actually, this is the first time I've seen people completely ignore posts just because they are long.) Is responding point-by-point to someone frowned upon?

My Case Against Josh_B

-

Vendetta vs vettrock

-

This is obsolete, but it bothered me before Josh_B said he wouldn't let it affect the game. If it comes up again, it will be valid. Hence why I'm including it at all.

-Sheeping BBT -

Admitted to it right here: (71) (94) How can we still be arguing whether it happened or not? Still, denies it here: (124) (126)

-Promising points and not delivering -

Says he can provide in these: (103) (104) Never actually provides points. Just does... this: (128) Whatever that is, it's not making points clear.

-Avoiding questions -

Answering my questions would help me understand his play better. Even when he finally acknowledges some, he doesn't even answer several of those: (138)

-Concern over where town sees him on a wagon-

I've quoted the exact phrase that stood out to me plenty of times, but here's the post where he makes sure to let us know that

it's okay

not to be first on a wagon: (94) Reeks of self-justification for hopping on the wagon with BBT. (YES, I'm aware he was referring to the vettrock wagon. It was a general comment, however.)

[Scripten]

You know what? I can actually get behind that. Sure, let's do this.

UNVOTE: Josh_B (My case still stands. =.= )
VOTE: wolfy

[Scripten]

Trainz

Scripten, none of those points merit a scumread, even if all of them are correct. Except perhaps the sheeping while denying the sheeping, which is what I voted him for.

Is that so? I've heard/seen across the board that avoiding questions and promising points without delivering are common scumtells. I suppose if a majority of the town disagrees with me, I'll drop my case, but it seems correct to me.

[Scripten]

FoS: Wolfy

- What in the world are you doing? How did you expect to get a reaction without engaging Josh_B at all? Why are you blatantly contradicting yourself, and why are you backing down at the first sign of suspicion? And what the hell is an OMGUS doing here? Aye-yi-yi...

I voted him.
He responded in a way that a townie would respond to a vote at that point.
He didn't respond to me in the same way that he was responding to you.

Can you clear these up, please? I am not following what you mean at all. Yes, you voted him. He asked you a question and you ignored it. That's not a tell, neither scum nor town. What the hell, man? Also, FoS because I voted you? OMGUS-y crap. Let's not do that.

BBT:

I do not appreciate that I'm suddenly "potential town" because I agree with you. What's with that? That's not a town-sided attitude to have. That's self-serving meta BS. Considering your strong feelings on the matter, isn't that something you should be avoiding?

PPE: Post 162 does make sense. However, your answers have not satisfied me, Wolfy.

[Scripten]

Actually, I specifically meant that BBT's "Agrees with me = towntell" is BS. Tiershift got it, though.

BBT:

The whole conf bias thing is getting old as well. It's like you're setting up a meta for people in other games to look back on. Smells of gaming the system, and that's really uncool.

[Scripten]

His question was the response to me that said town. He was responding to you in a totally different way.

You mean this? (122) I don't follow. How does that say town? And if that was all you were looking for, why did you wait until someone made a go at you before you changed your vote?

BBT:

Basically, you've been going through this game saying that people who agree with you are town. Your sudden town read on me supports that. Being so damn cocksure of your reads, especially on day 1, is folly. I said this before and I hold by it. If you're trying to manipulate your meta, please STOP. It's just making it more difficult for the rest of the town.

[Scripten]

165 is why you're reading town to me right now. It's not because you agree with me.

I am intrigued though. What makes you think I am trying to manipulate my meta? Such a strange thing to say given my stance on meta.

It's because you're pushing every single read you get like there's no tomorrow. It is scummy to me, but I'm reading town from you for everything else. So the only other motivation I can see is that you're trying to manipulate your meta. Either way, it's putting the town at risk.

[Scripten]

Josh_B, can you quote the posts you are replying to? Without context, nobody can really know what you're talking about. I'll admit to being lost during at least half of that.

[Scripten]

Yep. Thanks.

[Scripten]

And he's still not answering my question = scum

Wait a second. I just went to your iso and looked. Which question are you looking to have answered, specifically?

[Scripten]

Mr Ree, can you hammer please.

Why should we want to quickhammer before Wolfy has had more chances to answer questions/slip up?

[Scripten]

Mr Ree, can you hammer please.

Why should we want to quickhammer before Wolfy has had more chances to answer questions/slip up?

You don't think he has slipped up enough yet?

Regardless of whether he flips town or scum, I want to hear everything I can out of him. If he's scum, he's more likely to give away his partner. If he's town, then we can use his comments after the flip with full assurance that he's a townie. Either way, it is good for the town to let him finish answering before we hammer.

Why so anxious to lynch right now? We have plenty of time.

[Scripten]

Anyone who goes for a quickhammer is setting themselves up to be lynched atm. Scum shouldn't do it because they don't want lynched. Townies shouldn't do it because it can drive a mislynch.

Wolfy, you're acting like you've already been lynched. Keep a cool head and try to help us if you're town. The more you get angry, deflect, or otherwise avoid giving the town clear information, the scummier you look and the more likely it is that a townie will end up hammering you. It's also possible that both goons are already on the wagon, but I doubt it.

[Scripten]

You know there are only two scum in this game, right Wolfy? The only person who has avoided your wrath is Tier.

an you're already

certain

you've found them!

You're still not answering questions...
What next when I flip town?

You're not flipping town. On the off-chance that you do, you should work on your town play. It's pretty bad.

Whoa, now. That's not cool. You're deflecting a legitimate question.

Hypothetically, if he does flip town, where would you go on day 2 for first suspicions? Hell, why not give us both situations: IE scum and town Wolfy?

[Scripten]

Think about it. Think about the question and what my response could be. Think who that might help, think who gets to use that information over N1...Jesus Christ.

How in the hell would explaining your top potential scum reads help the scumteam? What, so they can eliminate the players that look towniest to

exclusively you

? You're really overestimating your power over this game if you think that.

[Scripten]

How in the hell would explaining your top potential scum reads help the scumteam? What, so they can eliminate the players that look towniest to

exclusively you

? You're really overestimating your power over this game if you think that.

I'm not saying it's a bad question specifcally because its aimed at me. I'm saying it is a bad question full stop.

Asking everyone for their full reads isn't good, but top one or two scum picks is a different story. Rather than just saying "it's bad because I say so," would you please explain how it is bad for you to give one or two reads?

[Scripten]

Asking everyone for their full reads isn't good, but top one or two scum picks is a different story. Rather than just saying "it's bad because I say so," would you please explain how it is bad for you to give one or two reads?

If you can tell me what the advantages of doing that would be; sure, why not.

It allows us corroborate our own reads if you happened to notice something the rest of us missed. Likewise, it helps to alleviate the inherent advantage scum have over town. They already know who is scum and who is town, so scum reads give information exclusively to town. The scumteam really doesn't care who we think is scum. In fact, keeping scummy town players around can be useful to them. And process of elimination is only so useful.

Why do you think the opposite?

[Scripten]

scripten, I think you are hunting for reads because you want to know who to NK. I don't think reads are good right now, and I'd like you to have to shoot in the dark.
This isn't my normal stance, I'll admit, but the question you are asking BBT right now seems like the same question you asked Vettrok. Since scum have to fabricate their reads, we're about one second from going into NP, and we still have players MIA.

At this point it probably won't do anyone any good to give reads until after the flip.

You do realize that Wolfy asked that question, not me, right? Also, I've explained why it's good for town to have players share scum reads before a flip. Do you have a counter argument as to why it's bad or are you just disagreeing for the sake of it?

[Scripten]

EBWOP

counter argument as to why it's bad

*counter argument explaining why it's bad

[Scripten]

I simply disagree that scripten is scummy for poking for reads. As we're not yet having a lynch, I don't see the harm in letting people who are perceived scummy to out their reads.

Just to be clear, it was BBT who has been asked to give his scum reads, whom I do not believe is being scumread atm. I don't think anyone has a problem with Wolfy giving his reads before a lynch.

[Scripten]

What you mean by this, of course, is it gives scum a running commentary of what town are doing/thinking and what direction we plan to head in on the next day in x, y and z scenarios. Scum can formulate a strategy over N1 to deal with this; do you see that?

That's such utter BS. Do you seriously expect the town to be able to work together with limited information? The town doesn't get a private chat like the mafia does. There is no direction. Do you really think you know who's town better than the scumteam? If so, you're wrong.

Anyway, I'm not delving into any deeper into theory arguments, but avoiding questions is scummy. So let's stop that.

Wolfy:

Reads list.

[Scripten]

I don't necessarily think that it's scummy for a person to ask for other people to give their reads. I think that it's scummy for a person to not give their reads, while calling out others for not doing the same. I think it has to do with the NK WIFOM question that he asked vettrok earlier. It was pretty off topic and loaded. What's a person going to say to that? I didn't find vettrok's answer all that scummy. I mean it was (paraphrasing here) "If I was scum, I'd play to my wincon" and isn't that what everyone would do? I don't see how it could indicate alignment. It does however follow with the odd questions that scripten keeps asking.

Firstly, I didn't ask the question. I just find fault with BBT not answering it. It's something I continually see him doing, and it's not a good habit.
Secondly, my scum reads should be plain as day to everyone, so don't go accusing me of hypocrisy, thanks. (Check my iso and you'll find them.)

Also, there's plenty of answers that could be given to my question about night kills. You know what the best one would be? One that is truthful and doesn't evade the question. It's not just what is said, but the way in which it's said. Tone, clarity, etc.

[Scripten]

I'm not convinced Wolfy is scum. The problem is everyone on the wagon can't be scum since there are only two scum. I think rushing to this lynch is incredibly anti-town.

I'm alright with discussing this. Can you explain why you don't believe Wolfy is scum?

[Scripten]

It means that, for some nebulous reason, both you and Tiershift agree that dodging questions is appropriate, pro-town behavior.

-

Scripten

(26)

Upon inspecting this, I'm unsure how much your position has evolved, and where you stand at the moment. What you've posted in this instance is that BBT and TS, for some nebulous reason, both agree that dodging questions is alright, pro-Town behavior. Since you's said this, do you still feel that way? If yes or no, why? I think if they are doing exactly as you say they are, then that issue should be pursued. Evading questions is anti-Town at best, scummy at worst. I'm not sure where deciding not to pursue that evasion stands in the spectrum. I don't think I can praise you or blame you, but you have pointed this out, yet shifted to Wolfy's demise (of which I'd like to understand your shift from Josh_B). In analyzing this bit, I find it pro-Town to point out the dodging of questions, and ever-so-slightly scummy/nullish for not chasing that issue to its natural conclusion.

Okay, jesus. Yeah, gonna have to jump on with the sentiment that you gotta cut your posts down a little bit. (And people are accusing -me- of posting walls. )
Anyway, cutting this into bit-size bits so I can reply to it.

Spoiler: Response to Wake88

Since you's said this, do you still feel that way? If yes or no, why?

I said what I said with regard to a very specific event that happened. It seems like you're asking me if I still believe that what I said was correct. In that case, yes. If it happens again, I will call it out all the same. However, other things have happened since that were more scummy in my eyes.

I'm not sure where deciding not to pursue that evasion stands in the spectrum. I don't think I can praise you or blame you, but you have pointed this out, yet shifted to Wolfy's demise (of which I'd like to understand your shift from Josh_B).

Wolfy's actions were significantly more scummy than Josh_B's. Beyond that, my case on Josh_B had nothing to do with him evading questions, only that he sheeped BBT's opinions wholesale and his case didn't hold up to my scrutiny. I moved away from Josh_B after Wolfy's flip because I feel like he had made our argument personal and became blind to the other players in the game.

Tiershift:

I'm finding your scumhunting to be very indirect all game. I'd like to see you interact more directly with other players. Do you have any standout scum reads you'd like to pursue? You said Josh_B sounded like a good wagon to you. Why didn't you vote him, then? You also questioned Wake88's posts, but didn't really confront him about them.

FoS - Josh_B:

Joining in: Who do you plan to pursue today? Like BBT and Tiershift, I'm particularly interested in what you intend to do today. Also, this is what he is referring to:

The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.

This is not a towntell. Scum can fake a post like that SO easily. Your play this game has not struck me as very town-oriented.

[Scripten]

Scripten, I did in fact vote josh before. I haven't cobfronted him or wake yet because I want to go back to day 1, re-examine voting patterns and wagons and then make up my mind about preliminary reads. Afterwards I'll get to questioning others.

Sorry, I should have specified that I meant on Day 2. Nevertheless, you've answered my question. Any eta on that reread? I'm more than used to people promising updates that they never deliver on.

[Scripten]

I am a doofus and should probably not try to play mafia between classes. Carry on!

[Scripten]

Anyway, BBT actually seems relatively town to me at the moment despite the butting of heads. You, on the other hand, are actively setting off my scum radar for the reasons that drove me to put my FoS on you before along with your reactions. Let's make this vote actually work toward something.

Where/how did you get your BBT townread?

Gut read mostly. While, like I said, we disagreed and argued a bit, I believe that he had town motivations in acting as he did. He has legitimately scumhunted and I have not disagreed with him over Wolfy. Josh_B, on the other hand, felt significantly more like scum when I first voted him. I haven't necessarily cleared BBT in my mind, but he does have a town lean to him this game, growing stronger the more we move into the later game.

Want to mention that I really like your 288, Tiershift. I had been worried about you.

[Scripten]

Josh_B, it would probably make it easier for us if you kept your posts all together. Submitting an incomplete post, then having a number of posts between it and your next post (which completes it) makes reading your posts a little more confusing than it has to be. The forums do have a feature that allow you to tell when you have been ninja'd, so you don't usually have to worry about missing a post.

Now, game stuff:

Josh_B:

You seem to think that wolfy's play was ambiguously scummy. That is, you felt that he was just playing poorly as town rather than acting scummily. That doesn't really explain why you didn't try to stop his lynch and, despite not voting for him, didn't seem to have much of a problem with it. I mean, you're acting now as if you were campaigning for him being town, which is just objectively untrue.

I'm reasonably convinced that this is not confirmation bias from before, but you are definitely looking quite scummy to me. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you're having an off game and can't find good cases to build, but you're toeing the line here.

[Scripten]

Wake88, can you specify which parts of that post pertain to each of us? From what I'm reading, you're directing this at Tiershift? If so, can you quote directly which parts you require an answer for? That will help direct conversation so as to get your concerns addressed.

[Scripten]

I'm meaning each observation noted within that post. The goal is to get feedback (which is usually valuable) to see if my current views are accurate or not. Do you think, if it became a list using bullet points, it would be easier to digest?

God yes. If you numbered them, I would send you a cookie.

[Scripten]

That's that twisty manipulative bullshit, you can't read it the way I wrote it cause it doesn't fit your agenda. How does it make more sense by you adding in some outlandish flim-flam?

So a statement made in the context of you being town is outlandish flim-flam. Are you even trying? This is L-1. Perhaps you can try answering questions instead of weaseling around them?

VOTE: Josh_B

If Josh_B flips scum, I'm going to say vettrock is his partner. If I'm wrong, Vettrock, please come out of the woodwork and help us scumhunt instead of lurking like you have been all game.

[Scripten]

Josh_B:

Scum can fake reaction tests. Obviously Wolfy was not faking, but we did not know that until he flipped. Did you? If so, why?

By the way, my question was not rhetorical. I want to know if you find your answers sufficient when others question them. Are you trying to answer questions or avoid them? Because it looks like you are trying to avoid them to me.

[Scripten]

^ I consider that a caught scum. What opinions do the rest of you have on this?

[Scripten]

I think Josh is town, wake is null, Asher is moderately scummy, Tiershift is slightly town. BBT and Scripten moderately scummy. Yes I realize this is three scum. I'll pick BBT for now, but I would consider either of the other two as well.

Are you at least going to lay down a vote? Or... you know, do something other than comment on the situation and sit back. Come on, if you're not scum, then help the town, please? your play has been poor and lazy all game.

[Scripten]

Ok, 2 1/2 myslynches. If either scripten or BBT are not scum, Lynch Asher in lylo.

2 1/2 mislynches? What does this mean?

[Scripten]

VOTE: BBT
I meant to put down the BBT vote, but I guess I missed it (hence the "I'll pick BBT for now")

I'll admit I haven't been as active as I should be.

Does this mean you're going to scumhunt more? You should be confronting your vote target with a case that they can respond to and either exonerate themselves or dig deeper.

[Scripten]

Ok, 2 1/2 myslynches. If either scripten or BBT are not scum, Lynch Asher in lylo.

2 1/2 mislynches? What does this mean?

IC POST FOR THE NEWB:

This is a reference to the 9 player game standard. Scum have to get three mislynches to win. Town is allowed 2 mislynches without losing. There is already one mislynch, so we really only have one mislynch left. I don't think we need that extra cushion at this point, but It is what it is.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. What I was wondering was why you wrote 2 1/2 and not 3 or two. Also, the rudeness is uncalled for. I asked you a simple question.

You should be confronting your vote target with a case that they can respond to and either exonerate themselves or dig deeper.

Who made up this rule?

Are you trying to be deliberately contrary? That's not exactly a town-sided playstyle. I'll bite regardless. Building a case or at least presenting a reason for your vote helps build a wagon on a player you find scummy by revealing more information to the town.

[Scripten]

While you can accuse me of fense sitting, I can say the side I sat on consistently was the not lynching Wolfy, and now I'm on the not lynching Josh side. Who needs to by lynched, I'm less certain of. I was not advocating a NoLynch as much as a someone other than Wolfy.

-snip-

As far as coming out of the woodwork and defending Josh, Yes I have not been as active as I should be. The case against Josh doesn't seem that strong to me.

Two questions. What are your reasons for scumreading BBT, Asher, and myself? Since you seem to just be trying to stop a lynch at this point, it would help us for you to elucidate a little more on your reads so we might be able to move away from where we are? Just saying, "There's not enough evidence yet" doesn't help as much as actually engaging with other players.

Second question. What do you believe the case(s) on Josh_B are? Could you link specific players to their cases, please, if there are multiple cases you see?

[Scripten]

Replies in bold:

OMGUS,

Wasn't the first one to bring it up. Also entirely explained my reasoning later. (47)

Buddying(both tiershift and BBT),

Sure. I used a term in a meaningful context.

accusing of deflection,

Deflection is a buzzword now?

complaining about overposting, (like it's some sort of big issue)

Misrep. I wasn't complaining about overposting. I was explaining how posting at the same time didn't necessitate that the second poster hadn't seen the first's post.

and admits to becomeing quickly paranoid over one vote.

I was admitting to confirmation bias and backing off. BBT pressed me so I went full-out and explained my reasoning. After that, I moved on.

Scripten, What is "everything else?"

Look

a

t BBT's iso. His reads and cases make sense. What I don't

l

ike

i

s the way he pushes those reads, every si

ng

le ti

m

e, with fanatical z

e

al. It's massively scummy to me, but I've see

n

him do this when he is

t

own. It's actually very frus

t

rating, since it makes town-r

e

ading him difficult. I don't like the idea of policy lynche

s

. That said, I do certainly agree with you that his read flip on me was off-pu

t

ting.

I may have been caught up in confirmation bias over your alignment, Josh_B. I agree with your read on BBT and I'd like for him to respond to it.

BBT:

I'd like you to respond to Josh_B's points, please. It would help set my mind at ease.

UNVOTE: Josh_B
VOTE: BBT

[Scripten]

I am town.

You have outside communication in this game?

Nope, but Tiershift can read italics really well.

GJ Tiershift. Caught scum. Intent to hammer.

[Scripten]

Did you see my crumb back scripten?

Nah, totally missed it. Can you explain it out for me pls? Cuz I is dumb.

I was hoping everyone would see it after a couple of posts. Plus, I think Josh -did- see it. Look at how fast he duck-and-covered.

[Scripten]

Aha. That's what I was looking for.

Also, Josh, please keep defending yourself. you're not lynched yet. Self hammers are only good for scum.

[Scripten]

His crumb got deleted by the forum software when he posted it.

EDIT: Ninja'd. That was fun, tho.

[Scripten]

I like the idea of letting him self-hammer. We have time to make the whole scumteam sweat.

Scumbuddies, come out to pla-ay.

[Scripten]

UNVOTE: BBT

Sorry, I'm probably having too much fun. I enjoy giving people enough slack to hang themselves. A quickhammer here would nab scum hard, though. Honeypots.

[Scripten]

The results of the test are not in yet. I'm pretty sure everyone else can put the pieces together, though. (I'll answer come your flip. Suffice to say that I feel the test was successful.) So, you really think it's an Asher/BBT scumteam?

[Scripten]

Do you mean from BBT/Scripten to BBT/Asher?
An ISO PbPA on Asher. My case really just started with Asher's contradiction to his feelings on Vettrock. First he said he thought Vettrock should have tried to defend Wolfy more if Wolfy was a town read, then he said that he didn't like it that Vettrock was defending me.
If I'm one of Vettrock's town reads, doesn't it make sense that vettrock would defend according to that line of thinking?
I thought,

If Asher didn't like the way Vettrock handled the Wolfy wagon, wouldn't he be more inclined to appreciate the way that Vettrock is handling the Josh wagon?

Keep in mind our perspective: Vettrock should have defended Wolfy more because Wolfy was town, but he did not. In fact, all the way back in (137), he was defending you. That's most of his contribution so far: white-knighting lynch targets... and you. We want to see him scumhunt, but he's not really asking questions or doing anything except saying "Let's lynch someone else! Who? I don't know. But somebody!" It's non-committal, safe, and therefore scummy.

What made your read on me switch from scum to town? It was very similar to BBT's switch earlier, which you did not like at all.

[Scripten]

Asher Kendrell:

What are you intending on posting about? I don't like the game's activity hinging on just one(two?) players.

Wake88:

I don't intend to quicklynch. Do you have something specific to say when you are less busy or was that just a general statement?

[Scripten]

Scripten, what are you hoping to gain from prolonging the day?

We have two players looking to have something said before the end of the day. I don't see why we should need to cut them off.

[Scripten]

Josh_B:

Nah, I'm not really under a lot of pressure. I know who I think is scummiest to me right now, and if I'm wrong, at least my logic is sound and I can move on. I'm not hammering yet because Asher and Wake88 wanted to say a few things. I'm pretty sure Asher is done, tho.

Wake88:

He gave his scumreads already. He is in support of an Asher/BBT scumteam, if I'm not mistaken.

Tiershift:

Let's say Josh_B flips town. Who's scum?

Vettrock:

People think you are scummy. Josh_B says we should just accept that you just play the way you do. I don't agree. You said in (466) that you just like to watch and contribute when you see fit. Since you're being soncistently scumread, would you agree that asking questions, probing other players, and just being more a part of the discussion would help the town by avoiding mislynches? (That is, assuming you are town.)

[Scripten]

Josh did claim. He's a Vanilla Townie. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

[Scripten]

Tiershift: Let's say Josh_B flips town. Who's scum?

Uh, I'm pretty sure he's flipping scum.

Wake's last post pinged

hard

. So poooossibly him with asher or vettrock.

Yeah it did. I like that. It means we're getting somewhere. Please don't mistake Josh's confusion on my stance with any confusion on my part.

Josh did claim. He's a Vanilla Townie. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong, please.)

He's not asking both to claim. He's saying "josh claimed, so bbt should claim".

I didn't read it like that. I saw it as "You both should claim now that you're at L-1." Maybe implying that Wake88 hadn't read the thread very well up to that point.

Wake88:

Can you clarify the foundation of your insistence on Josh and BBT claiming? I wanna get it straight from the horse's mouth.

[Scripten]

I put that post in my ISO because BBT thought you had communications outside of this game. Which is not to say that he thought you guys were the scum team.

He thought we had communications outside the game, but in reality the synergy was because Tiershift caught on to my crumb before anyone else did. Either way, though, that would have been a little silly, since the OP says that scum don't have day chat.

[Scripten]

Wake88, I don't think you're quite following the situation.

When I voted BBT before, it was to gain more of an understanding of several players' alignments. Regardless of whether Josh_B flips scum or not, it can be used later on in the game. It does not mean, however, that I intended to hammer BBT at any point during Day 2. Do you understand a little better now?

[Scripten]

Wake88:

Alright, how about this: We'll give you a little while to get your thoughts together and catch up on the thread. I don't want to go all the way to the deadline, since burning out the town players is no way to win this game, but this conversation has been... enlightening, to say the least, so I'm up for holding the hammer a bit longer.

[Scripten]

Wake88:

What is your vote on Tiershift for?

Also, are you aware of the forum's ISO feature? It lets you quickly read through all of a player's posts to find the information you need if it's already been posted. That's where you'll find my case on Josh_B.

[Scripten]

However, i am refraining from calling names and being overly aggressive in hopes that my points will be heard better, because that's what works on my wife.

Spoiler: OOC

I couldn't help myself.

Actual game stuff tomorrow, maybe earlier. Got a lot of classwork for tonight.

[Scripten]

I don't believe you have the option of pointing at your ISO and otherwise remaining silent when I dig at you for answers.

Except, when the case has been made very clearly already, it's your responsibility to keep up. You aren't "grilling" me for answers. You're wasting my time and doing nothing while pretending to scumhunt.

I am a Townie. Sacrificial in that as long as one Townie lives we all win. I don't know what would happen if I don't get my answers, but I do know, looking at the landscape, that I have absolutely nothing to hold me back. I don't think Scum could well afford that kind of intense, unbearable scrutiny.

Since you're so happy to call others out on statements that look fake to you, here's an example a very fake-looking statement. You're

so

sure you're town that you need to tell us how town you are. Yeah... real townies don't need to do that.

Scripten, as noted in (537) he took my quote out of context, while using hyperbole. That's why I'm voting him, because Town has no good reason to try and take one's words out of context. Why are you asking this when the post was just recent, and obvious? It makes me wonder, considering the post was less than ten posts back. This gives me the idea that if TS flips Scum, that you're his partner, because you're asking me why I'd be voting your partner when it's fairly obvious it's because he shifted the context of my post.

Except TS's posts make sense and yours are so verbose as to be nonsensical at times. Do you not understand why we asked you to paraphrase? It was not because we couldn't find your points, rather that you were being obtuse and wordy for no reason.

FoS: Wake88

[Scripten]

We have plenty of time to talk. People are still mid-conversation right now, so cutting them off would be both rude and pointless.

I don't think we're at risk of people burning out. Do you?

[Scripten]

Wake88 so scummy.

This is almost disappointing.

[Scripten]

Did you not just hammer while there are outstanding points for you to respond to? Sudden quickhammers are scummy as all hell in general, but that one really takes the cake.

Also, that response is incredibly empty. HOW am I scummy?

[Scripten]

Let's all remember that this is a LyLo situation, so nobody lay a vote unless you are absolutely sure of scum.

[Scripten]

Wake88, nice quickhammer on a townie. Also, one of your top suspects, BBT, was both town cop and target last night.

Any defense/thoughts?

[Scripten]

Literally just got on. Your vote is bad mojo. If you are town, (I don't think you are.) remove it now. I'm the only Earl, so you're caught, Asher. With BBT confirmed cop, we know the setup. Almost 100% sure that Asher and Wake88 are the scumteam. (Wake88 may just be a bad town player, but Asher is 100% scum.)

Btw, why do you think BBT flipped overnight with his scum read on me?

[Scripten]

Wake88, you're desperate and your play is terrible. Tiershift and Vettrock both suspect you and I know they're town now. You are scum. And you're really, really blatant.

Also, not voting because it's LyLo, I may have missed something, and I want some discussion before we try to quicklynch, scum. Not that we really need any, but I'm not going to leap immediately into action and lose us the game.

[Scripten]

Didn't you say before that a quicklynch is anti-town? Why did you do that to Josh_B, then? Why are you doing it now? Also, give some evidence to back up the inane bullshit you're throwing around. Your vote is stupid, your play is terrible, and you should feel bad.

[Scripten]

You're not going to get a rise out of me. Also, care to answer my questions, scumbucket? There's plenty for you. Appeals to emotion aren't going to work.

[Scripten]

Asher: (395)

Also, if you're going to look into my ISO, take a look here: (447)

How about it, Wake88?

[Scripten]

Interesting. Not willing to risk being on the wagon with your scumbuddy yet, Wake88?

[Scripten]

Scared scum. You've both been set up into a position where if you don't win today, you are caught. Now I've called you out on your gambit and you're terrified someone else is going to see through. (Pretty sure they will. Looks like you are, too.)

Also, why the rush? We have time to talk. Put down your guns and knives and come to the table.

[Scripten]

Asher: You're confirmed scum. Wake is only mostly confirmed.

Vettrock: Smart play. Question. Do you think we should go for confirmed scum or take out the obvscum? At this point, it's almost entirely theory.

[Scripten]

My god, Wake88. Your play is laughable.

Like... wow. Seriously wow.

[Scripten]

I townread Tiershift now.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh my god i'm freaking dying.

[Scripten]

Vettrock:

Agreed. From the rest of the town's POV, obvscum seems like a safer play than one of two claims. I'll let my

Wake88:

They're only townread when you want to kiss their asses, right?

Also, I was the one holding the hammer. You, to put it to metaphor, ran up, grabbed it, and hammered a townie. You jumped the gun because you were scared. People were calling you out on being scummy, so you panicked. Just like you're doing now.

[Scripten]

Yes, because laying votes immediately in LyLo is incredibly town-sided. Just like quicklynching and rolefishing, amirite?

[Scripten]

And given that our cop died night 2, I don't think any rolefishing really happened.

Exactly how in the world could you (expect us to) think that? I would go so far as to say the reason BBT was singled out was because of his reaction to Wake88's rolefishing.

[Scripten]

Do you feel powerful when you swing that big, bold text around, Wake88 Because it really looks like a whole lot of overcompensation for a lack of evidence backing you up.

[Scripten]

We'll let Tiershift decide.

I'm not getting into it with two people I KNOW are confirmed Scum from my point of view.

Ah, come on. It'll be fun. You can ad hominem, evade questions, and flaunt your emotional, scummy BS and I can cheer you on while you help the town win by playing so poorly.

[Scripten]

Hey guys! Great game, especially for Tiershift. I was townreading you hard the whole game. Any advice for sorry old me?

[Scripten]

Oh, before I forget!

Josh_B, I was actually starting to townread you toward the end there. Wake's quickhammer actually caught me by surprise and made me read him as hard scum. Sorry for being so aggressive toward you all game. A lot of that was ego at first, and then when you came back at me it made me think you were scum. You were actually playing a lot better than I was letting on. It was really just a bad mix of players agreeing/disagreeing with your wagon at different times that pushed it, IMO.

Also, since I promised to explain, my alignment test crumb wasn't really meant for just Josh. (In fact, I'm a complete moron for not reading into his reaction a little more. Tiershift's buddying on me worked really well here.) It was meant for BBT. I was starting to scumread him, and I wanted to get a better idea on who to trust. His reaction felt super town to me. Granted, so did Tiershift, but I'd been townreading him all day.

Oh! One last thing. BBT and TS, you guys were totally right about my RVS play being terrible. I literally went to the wiki and the theory forum to find RVS articles to read. Spent almost half a day poring over stuff people had written to try and improve my early play. So yeah, that shift you saw was completely due to me switching gears and trying to improve.

PS - Nobody liked my Josh_B's Daikatana joke. (Btw, totally meant that in good humor, not as a jibe.)

[Scripten]

I'd be up for that. I actually completely separate my mafia self from my actual self. So no hard feelings on this end. Same goes for anyone else I get into arguments with.