Micro 382 - CREDIMVS PAVONI DEORVM (Game Over!)

[Wake1]

I'd like to apologize in advance for the length of this post. There's an awful lot of people I haven't played with before. I think that only one I'm familiar with, barring alts, is Josh_B. I've got a few observations and ideas I'd like to bring to the table. I'm going to break this post up into sections. Please bear with me.

BlueBloodedToffee

As with Scripten, BBT is rather talkative. I wonder if BBT has any suspicions of Vettrock.

...

Well, crud. I was thinking about how Scripten made a case against Josh, and then turned around and killed Wolfy. I also considered how he talked so much. I noticed how BBT was chatty as well, and as I scrolled down his ISO I wondered if he'd jump on Wolfy. And sure enough he did.

It's looking like Wolfy was a policy lynch, so hopefully Day 2 won't be too easy for Scum to achieve a mislynch. Unlike with Vettrock I'm having difficulty reading you and Scripten, so I'd like to talk with each of you a bit more in order to get a better read. I think it's the feeling of information-overload, in that you two are posting so much that it's a bit too much to digest.

I'd like to see your current Scumreads, please. Out of curiosity, did you primarily lynch Wolfy for being anti-Town, or for being Scummy?

27:

You're really pushing this issue. You have to be scum.

When you make posts like this, it feels not only forced, but also fake. It's that subtle twinge of fakeness that gives me doubts. I'd like answers from you on why you imply he's Scum, but then take your detour and go for Wolfy. Was it worth it? I think when you use strong language, going so far as to declare someone's Scum, your actions should follow suit with your words. Otherwise it makes you disingenuous, and no amount of posts will change that, in my opinion.

What adds even more weight to my inquiry is your 79, in which you declare to all exactly why you think Scripten is Scum. Why the change? If you would, please walk me through on this. I daresay your earlier certainty betrays your innocence, because you've gone from declaring Scripten Scum to "

Funny how you think I am still scum-reading Scripten.

" Wolfy had flaws, to be sure, but he did flip Town, and you did flip-flop. If it's not too much trouble, I want answers, or I'm afraid I will begin to zero-in on your posts until my curiosity is satisfied.

AsherKendrell

I don't think we've played before, either. He's only posted once. Nothing of gameplay value was provided. However, his two posts voted Wolfy and shifted suspicion towards him. I feel that's a bit scummy, because it's like he's not playing, and when he has, it ended with a dead Townie on the rope. If you would, please get more active, Asher. I want to better understand why exactly you voted for Wolfy, why you cast doubt on him, and why you have barely been playing. You've been given the same time as everyone else, and I really feel you can step it up and play a bit better. Some have posted quite a bit, so I think you can pull your fair share of the load, too. Until you give me something I can work with, I'm going to

Finger of Suspicion: AsherKendrell

. Sorry.

As for my analysis of your gameplay in order to discern your alignment, you've not given me much information to come to a better decision. With what little information I do have at my fingertips, I do know it's probable you're an alternate account (this one), and that you played as a Mafia Cowardly Jack-of-all-trades in Bins' (Modified Greatest Idea Mafia) game. From what little there is, it can be discerned that as Scum you post rather short posts; it should be noted you were playing in a Marathon game, which makes those short posts more reasonable. It's not much, but those 11 posts are a glimpse of what we might expect from Scum-Asher. In those eleven posts you didn't place any suspicion on anyone; just naked votes. In this game you did shift suspicion on someone. Does it mean anything? I do not know.

I will say you're slightly leaning Scum. If you're Town, and you don't want us to lose, please start contributing more to change my thoughts on you.

[Wake1]

Josh_B

I've not been following the drama between Josh and Scripten. His content and engagement with the game makes me think Town, initially. The wordiness makes my eyes bleed. I'll very tentatively put him in my Townlist. So now I'd like to know what his reads are; especially his reads on Vettrock.
Do you aim to go after Scripten today, Josh?

Mr. Ree

I noticed he RVS'd Tiershift, then serious-voted him, then two posts later he's not liking his vote. Whatever happened to 'caught Scum is caught'? It just seems so fake, like it was simply for show. You hammered Wolfy why? Because he flamed out? Is that indicative of alignment? You voted him out instead of 'caught Scum is Scum.'

Not sure what he is yet. He's posted some posts, and I did like how he questioned Wolfy for putting himself at null, butn it doesn't feel like enough. So for now I have Mr. Ree at null until he posts more. I do want answers for the way he's voted, and why he aided in taking out Wolfy.

Scripten

An awful lot of posts to sort through. As with Josh I tentatively have him as a Townread that needs to be sorted. He talks a lot, and jumped on the Wolfy wagon. Scripten, what do you think of Mr. Ree hammering Wolfy? Does that change your reads at all? Another thing I noticed is that you made this big case against Josh_B, yet you then go for Wolfy, who flips Town. I'd like to better understand your shift, and whether or not your initial push for Josh was just for show. What's your read on Vettrock, et al?

TierShift

Not much to work with, because many of the posts are so short. What do you think of Josh_B, Vettrock, or an Asher wagon today, TS? If you read my bit on Vettrock down below, do you think it feels like he's playing safe and guardedly? Why did you change from Josh to Wolfy? I'm having difficulty reading TS, because he hasn't done much to make me believe or distrust him. I do want to know if he follows my train of thought on Vettrock.

[Wake1]

vettrock

Vettrock's another player I haven't had the pleasure of playing with before. In light of Wolfy being innocent, it doesn't look like you ever placed suspicion on him. I did notice your exchange with Scripten, in which in 68 he asks you who you'd NK as Scum if there were no lynch. You respond in 116 by saying you wouldn't know, and that you'd need more information, and that you'd pick a random target. This bit leaves me wondering, because if you were Scum, and seeing how this isn't multiball, you'd already know who is Scum and who is Town. From your hypothetical standpoint there would be no "believing who is most likely to be Town." You say you'd be left with two options:

1)

A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town.

Now, I could be misunderstanding you here. Do you mean the person most believed to be Town... in the eyes of the players? If that is what you meant to say, then that changes things and I would agree with it.

2)

A nightkill should be a person that is particularly threatening to you.

This would make the most sense to me, so long as you make sure it doesn't come back to bite you. We likely have differences of opinion in how to play the game. If you know someone is Town, and a particularly strong Town voice at that, you'd want to kill that person earlier rather than later. There is merit to randomly killing a Townie, too, in that there's less likelihood of the death being tied back to you. It's also situational, as you mentioned in the last sentence of that post.


If you would, please shed some light on this. Typing this up, I'm better understanding the reason behind your posts, but would still like to hear your clarification on this, please. Also, do you think you'd allow a No-Lynch to go through on any of the Days if you were Scum? If so, and you're Town, then I think you would fight to ensure that doesn't happen, since we have an odd-numbered playerbase.

Vettrock, how are you feeling about TierShift's alignment?

Also, would you elaborate on what exactly you meant by Scripten "seeming to be bending stuff a lot more," please? I think when any person takes things out of context, or bends them out of context, that's inherently suspicious and shouldn't be done by members of Town. I think Scripten is capable of defending his position without bending things, if indeed that's what he is doing. Why did you vote for my slot, and leave it there? If Scripten was bending things out of context as you imply, or that calling for a hammer at that point was scummy in your book, why did you not put a vote towards either of those players? This includes your mention of you thinking BBT was scummy for saying he considered Wolfy "certain scum."

Additionally:

"Maybe I don't have the Uber skills of all of you, but knowing with "certainty" that someone will flip scum is something that only scum can say."

The first part of this sentence feels fake to me. A bit. As for the second part, you say it's something only Scum can say. So... why did you do nothing against that person? If that was something only Scum would say, where was your vote to put action behind your words? If you think something done can only be done by Scum, you cast a vote against the person doing that Scummy action. Instead you did not, which troubles me, because it doesn't make your words ring true, because if you believed what you said your actions would follow suit.

"While I'm not for dragging things out unnecessarily, lynching at this point is anti-town."

At what point would you be for lynching? A ballpark estimate would be helpful here.

That last post was on August 29th, at 8:03am. Mr. Ree hammered at 2:55pm that same day. You've not posted since. You had around seven hours to post. It's understandable if you were busy with real-life. If you weren't, and since you viewed Wolfy's wagon as incredibly anti-Town, maybe you could have, if Town, found time to post one or two more posts voicing your disapproval of that wagon?

I don't mean to annoy you with questions. I would just appreciate some answers, please.

As it is right now, I have a tentative Townread on you. Your posts ring with reason, but questions abound, and I'd like them to be answered in full, if it's not too much trouble. It would certainly help me feel you're a member of Town.

...

I do know you were Town in JasonT1981's Marvel Avenger's game (game). Do you feel like you've played differently in this game than that one? I cannot with certainty you are playing more safely and guardedly in this one. Do you feel that way, Vet? Help me out here, please. You were Town in

Micro 360: Gerrymander

, too (game). A Weak Town Doctor in

Micro 356: The Murder of DoctorPepper

. A Town Tracker in

Newbie 1513: Lingo Linguistics

, and Town in

Newbie 1502: Thought Blockage

. Hm. You were a Mafia Roleblocker in

Newbie 1503

(game). I will note, in Newbie 1503, you do feel, to me, rather guarded in posts 586 and 596 in that game, which were the only posts you made before the mod confirmed that your hammer ended the game. So we do have a glimpse of you as Scum, and you did feel a bit safe and guarded in those two posts as well.

What do you think of that, Vettrock?

I am a bit curious.

[Asher Kendrell]

AsherKendrell

If you would, please get more active, Asher. I want to better understand why exactly you voted for Wolfy, why you cast doubt on him, and why you have barely been playing. You've been given the same time as everyone else, and I really feel you can step it up and play a bit better. Some have posted quite a bit, so I think you can pull your fair share of the load, too. Until you give me something I can work with, I'm going to

Finger of Suspicion: AsherKendrell

. Sorry.

Hi Wake88. I don't think we've played together before.

Why I voted for Wolfy:

Answer the question.
Question dodging = scum

and

And he's still not answering my question = scum

So Wolfy felt that avoiding questions was a scummy move, quick to call others out on it, yet refused to answer and provide a reads list when asked and then only ended up basically repeating his list from 141. He refused to help the town by providing an up-to-date reads list and dodged bbt's and scripten's constant requests for hours. He said that not answering questions is scummy, yet did so himself. By his own accounts, he was scum or just a hostile townie.

So if I change and vote for someone else will I become town too?
hyperbole.
crap.

Crap, yet he had made 5 separate votes. Either he knows it looks scummy, or he's trying to look town without saying it.

In any case, he wasn't beneficial for the town and made himself a liability.

Why I've barely been playing:

This one is unconnected to the game; I had a job for the summer that ended on Friday, so I'll be much more available now. Although I actually haven't had as much time as everybody else, because I subbed in for Clusk92 around post 140, and have only been playing since then.

[Wake1]

AsherKendrell

If you would, please get more active, Asher. I want to better understand why exactly you voted for Wolfy, why you cast doubt on him, and why you have barely been playing. You've been given the same time as everyone else, and I really feel you can step it up and play a bit better. Some have posted quite a bit, so I think you can pull your fair share of the load, too. Until you give me something I can work with, I'm going to

Finger of Suspicion: AsherKendrell

. Sorry.

Hi Wake88. I don't think we've played together before.

Why I voted for Wolfy:

Answer the question.
Question dodging = scum

and

And he's still not answering my question = scum

So Wolfy felt that avoiding questions was a scummy move, quick to call others out on it, yet refused to answer and provide a reads list when asked and then only ended up basically repeating his list from 141. He refused to help the town by providing an up-to-date reads list and dodged bbt's and scripten's constant requests for hours. He said that not answering questions is scummy, yet did so himself. By his own accounts, he was scum or just a hostile townie.

So if I change and vote for someone else will I become town too?
hyperbole.
crap.

Crap, yet he had made 5 separate votes. Either he knows it looks scummy, or he's trying to look town without saying it.

In any case, he wasn't beneficial for the town and made himself a liability.

Why I've barely been playing:

This one is unconnected to the game; I had a job for the summer that ended on Friday, so I'll be much more available now. Although I actually haven't had as much time as everybody else, because I subbed in for Clusk92 around post 140, and have only been playing since then.

I'll strive to not make this game a terrible experience for you. Please don't take offense if I ask you questions civilly.

If you're an alt account, would you feel comfortable sharing that? The reason I ask is to then draw parallels on your meta based on your other account(s). If not I understand, and will respect that.

I will agree with Wolfy that question-dodging is... suspicious. I intensely dislike it when people do this, and will basically follow them to the ends of the Earth to extract that vital information. Does it mean the play is Scum? No. I've had the misfortune of dealing with Town players who not only refused to answer simple questions, but have a terrible attitude about it, too. If I lynch a Townie because of scummy bad behavior, I'll still sleep well at night. Him not providing a Reads List, and refusing to... that too is scummy. If you are Town you should at least make an effort to contribute and engage in the conversation. I can certainly understand players being busy, too. Hostility is anti-Town, and Scum will jump on that for sure. I have no doubt there's at least one member of Scum on Wolfy's wagon.

He should have gone about his business differently. He still has time to grow and mature. As for being busy, real-life comes first. If you're bogged down please don't be shy about using the V/LA convenience.

[Asher Kendrell]

I'll strive to not make this game a terrible experience for you. Please don't take offense if I ask you questions civilly.

If you're an alt account, would you feel comfortable sharing that? The reason I ask is to then draw parallels on your meta based on your other account(s). If not I understand, and will respect that.

I will agree with Wolfy that question-dodging is... suspicious. I intensely dislike it when people do this, and will basically follow them to the ends of the Earth to extract that vital information. Does it mean the play is Scum? No. I've had the misfortune of dealing with Town players who not only refused to answer simple questions, but have a terrible attitude about it, too. If I lynch a Townie because of scummy bad behavior, I'll still sleep well at night. Him not providing a Reads List, and refusing to... that too is scummy. If you are Town you should at least make an effort to contribute and engage in the conversation. I can certainly understand players being busy, too. Hostility is anti-Town, and Scum will jump on that for sure. I have no doubt there's at least one member of Scum on Wolfy's wagon.

He should have gone about his business differently. He still has time to grow and mature. As for being busy, real-life comes first. If you're bogged down please don't be shy about using the V/LA convenience.

That's very kind of you. I'm actually not an alt account. My only games are the marathon you brought up and a newbie game that just started. From now on, I'll make sure to use the V/LA if necessary.

I think I'm with you on the wagon business. 5 on the wagon, 3 off (not counting wolfy), the odds would suggest that at least one Scum is there. Possibly two, but that sounds more unlikely to me.

[Wake1]

At this moment, based on Wolfy's anti-Town behavior, I suspect moreso than not that both Scum were on his wagon. His bad behavior would make it 1) easier and 2) more reasonable and 3) more innocuous for Scum to lynch him. Then again, this is not a certainty.

[Wake1]

Asher, please share your thoughts on Vettrock.

[Asher Kendrell]

Asher, please share your thoughts on Vettrock.

Vettrock is kind of a mystery to me. He hasn't done anything outwardly scummy, but not a lot of pro-town moves either. He seems to be mostly sitting on the fence to me.

At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.

Vettrock:

If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?

If the Day ended right now and I was scum it is hard to say who I would nightkill. I think we need a bit more information, as at this point I'd just have to pick a random person. A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town, or a person that is particularly threatening to you. The problem with the second option, is it points the finger at you unless they also fall under the first catagory. As there isn't anyone who is generally accepted as town at this point, I'd have to go random.

Vettrock doesn't really give an answer, only that his hypothetical night kill would have to be random or the most believed to be town. On the one hand, vettrock's the only player who hasn't been voted against yet, and his only vote was on shaded, who posted basically nothing before being replaced by you. He seemed pretty convinced that wolfy wasn't scum, and that lynching him was anti-town. To me it seems like vettrock has been skirting on the edge rather than taking a stance. His opinions on wolfy didn't really matter because his vote wasn't needed to lynch.

I'm not feeling comfortable with vettrock. If he was convinced about wolfy's innocence, he could have fought harder. If he thought he was scummy, he could have stated his intent to hammer as well. It seems convenient that he could slip past day 1 with no suspicion and avoided the wagon.

[Wake1]

Asher, please share your thoughts on Vettrock.

Vettrock is kind of a mystery to me. He hasn't done anything outwardly scummy, but not a lot of pro-town moves either. He seems to be mostly sitting on the fence to me.

At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.

Vettrock:

If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?

If the Day ended right now and I was scum it is hard to say who I would nightkill. I think we need a bit more information, as at this point I'd just have to pick a random person. A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town, or a person that is particularly threatening to you. The problem with the second option, is it points the finger at you unless they also fall under the first catagory. As there isn't anyone who is generally accepted as town at this point, I'd have to go random.

Vettrock doesn't really give an answer, only that his hypothetical night kill would have to be random or the most believed to be town. On the one hand, vettrock's the only player who hasn't been voted against yet, and his only vote was on shaded, who posted basically nothing before being replaced by you. He seemed pretty convinced that wolfy wasn't scum, and that lynching him was anti-town. To me it seems like vettrock has been skirting on the edge rather than taking a stance. His opinions on wolfy didn't really matter because his vote wasn't needed to lynch.

I'm not feeling comfortable with vettrock. If he was convinced about wolfy's innocence, he could have fought harder. If he thought he was scummy, he could have stated his intent to hammer as well. It seems convenient that he could slip past day 1 with no suspicion and avoided the wagon.

You do not feel he has done anything outwardly scummy? Assuming you are Town, I would be pleased if you provided feedback on my earlier post regarding Vettrock. How do you weigh my thoughts on him?

Do you feel he has been playing safe and guarded this game? The only other game he was Scum in he played that way, too. I would like to have your exacting thoughts on this. To be frank, I do not want to feel as if you are apprehensive. I don't mean for you to potentially feel that way, but if you do, I will pick up on that. Please walk through my post on Vettrock, Asher.

[Asher Kendrell]

vettrock

Vettrock's another player I haven't had the pleasure of playing with before. In light of Wolfy being innocent, it doesn't look like you ever placed suspicion on him. I did notice your exchange with Scripten, in which in 68 he asks you who you'd NK as Scum if there were no lynch. You respond in 116 by saying you wouldn't know, and that you'd need more information, and that you'd pick a random target. This bit leaves me wondering, because if you were Scum, and seeing how this isn't multiball, you'd already know who is Scum and who is Town. From your hypothetical standpoint there would be no "believing who is most likely to be Town." You say you'd be left with two options:

1)

A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town.

Now, I could be misunderstanding you here. Do you mean the person most believed to be Town... in the eyes of the players? If that is what you meant to say, then that changes things and I would agree with it.

2)

A nightkill should be a person that is particularly threatening to you.

This would make the most sense to me, so long as you make sure it doesn't come back to bite you. We likely have differences of opinion in how to play the game. If you know someone is Town, and a particularly strong Town voice at that, you'd want to kill that person earlier rather than later. There is merit to randomly killing a Townie, too, in that there's less likelihood of the death being tied back to you. It's also situational, as you mentioned in the last sentence of that post.

I'd agree with the assessment of 1, assuming he meant in the eyes of the players. 2, however, gets a bit more complicated. In post 38, vettrock talked about having played with clusk and wolfy before. I replaced clusk, so the only one he's played with before is wolfy. I don't know if wolfy's town play is usually strong, but he is the only player that vettrock seems to have had first hand experience with. Wolfy got lynched though, so the night kill would have to be, by his standards, random or the most believed to be town. Mr_ree only talked about vettrock once, in which he called him town (203). Other than that, there's no connection between mr_ree and vettrock. That could be either that vettrock is unrelated to the night kill or that it was just a random townie kill.

If you would, please shed some light on this. Typing this up, I'm better understanding the reason behind your posts, but would still like to hear your clarification on this, please. Also, do you think you'd allow a No-Lynch to go through on any of the Days if you were Scum? If so, and you're Town, then I think you would fight to ensure that doesn't happen, since we have an odd-numbered playerbase.

Vettrock, how are you feeling about TierShift's alignment?

Also, would you elaborate on what exactly you meant by Scripten "seeming to be bending stuff a lot more," please? I think when any person takes things out of context, or bends them out of context, that's inherently suspicious and shouldn't be done by members of Town. I think Scripten is capable of defending his position without bending things, if indeed that's what he is doing. Why did you vote for my slot, and leave it there? If Scripten was bending things out of context as you imply, or that calling for a hammer at that point was scummy in your book, why did you not put a vote towards either of those players? This includes your mention of you thinking BBT was scummy for saying he considered Wolfy "certain scum."

Vettrock did say that he was against a no lynch in 119, but he was also against the lynch on wolfy, so it sounds more like he would be okay with a no lynch as long as it happens slow rather than immediately. I already talked about voting for shaded and leaving it there; to me it seems like he just wanted to avoid the wagon without being called out by an active player.

"Maybe I don't have the Uber skills of all of you, but knowing with "certainty" that someone will flip scum is something that only scum can say."

The first part of this sentence feels fake to me. A bit. As for the second part, you say it's something only Scum can say. So... why did you do nothing against that person? If that was something only Scum would say, where was your vote to put action behind your words? If you think something done can only be done by Scum, you cast a vote against the person doing that Scummy action. Instead you did not, which troubles me, because it doesn't make your words ring true, because if you believed what you said your actions would follow suit.

"While I'm not for dragging things out unnecessarily, lynching at this point is anti-town."

At what point would you be for lynching? A ballpark estimate would be helpful here.

That last post was on August 29th, at 8:03am. Mr. Ree hammered at 2:55pm that same day. You've not posted since. You had around seven hours to post. It's understandable if you were busy with real-life. If you weren't, and since you viewed Wolfy's wagon as incredibly anti-Town, maybe you could have, if Town, found time to post one or two more posts voicing your disapproval of that wagon?

This is troubling for me because he could have done more to try and stop the lynch wagon but instead took a more "No. Don't." approach instead of being actively against it. Not really any actions he did back up trying to stop the lynch. Also, lynching is anti-town, but so is not lynching? It seems like more fence sitting to me, rather than picking a side and doing something about it.

Other than that, I don't know enough about meta to try and extrapolate his playstyle. I think I covered everything Wake88, but it's always possible I missed something.

[TierShift]

Hi wake. No offence, but I find most of your wall useless and I see you are drawing very little conclusions from all the facts that you sum up (IIoA!). Can you do a town/scum readslist?

Your 'assessment' of vettrock is just a crapoad of IIoA so I cannot agree or disagree. I myself have talked about the part where he talks who he'd NK, but the way you speak about it is based on how it should theoretically be instead of if it is alignment-indicative or not. Please keep that out of a readslist. As for my read on him, null. I want him to post more. I don't care too much for the mild aversion to the lynch either way.

I need to check on.josh to see if I'd like that wagon. I sure did before!

As for Asher, I've already said i found his 'RVS' vote scummy and I think that was where I was looking for a wagon today. But I like his 253 and I'm yet to decide if newbscum or newbtown.

Asher, I'm glad to see you're going to be more active. I asked for your reads. Can you provide them?
With all this stuff you're saying about vettrock, what is your read on him? Does 'uncomfortable with' mean scum to you?

[Wake1]

Points & Analysis

I feel such questions need not be answered.

-

TierShift

(13)

If you would, which questions, TierShift, and why? This bit to me looks like you don't want questions being answered, when from what's been shouted to me over and over... it's not good to deny Town information, or to stymie questions. So in analyzing this, I feel it's scummy of you, because I believe only Scum would have a reason to not want such questions to be answered. If you would specify exactly which questions you feel shouldn't be answered, and precisely why, I think that would be a very pro-Town thing to do.

It means that, for some nebulous reason, both you and Tiershift agree that dodging questions is appropriate, pro-town behavior.

-

Scripten

(26)

Upon inspecting this, I'm unsure how much your position has evolved, and where you stand at the moment. What you've posted in this instance is that BBT and TS, for some nebulous reason, both agree that dodging questions is alright, pro-Town behavior. Since you's said this, do you still feel that way? If yes or no, why? I think if they are doing exactly as you say they are, then that issue should be pursued. Evading questions is anti-Town at best, scummy at worst. I'm not sure where deciding not to pursue that evasion stands in the spectrum. I don't think I can praise you or blame you, but you have pointed this out, yet shifted to Wolfy's demise (of which I'd like to understand your shift from Josh_B). In analyzing this bit, I find it pro-Town to point out the dodging of questions, and ever-so-slightly scummy/nullish for not chasing that issue to its natural conclusion.

You're really pushing this issue.
You have to be scum.
Your questions were bad.
How are they supposed to help you work out somebody's alignment?
They were awful questions designed to look like you were prompting discussion and scum-hunting.
I'm so sure you're gonna flip scum.

-

BlueBloodedToffee

(27)

...is he? I would rather a player push an issue, rather than lurk, evade, or deflect. If he has to be Scum, please, how and why? You say his questions are bad, but I find practically all in-game questions to be a good thing, because they do generate discussion and, therefore, content. That is what is typically used towards discerning one's alignment. I don't think the questions were awful, and even if you find them off-putting, I would like to see you answer them as best you can. In analyzing this bit of yours, I find it scummy to respond by saying he's really pushing the issue, as if that's a bad thing. Whether it's anti-Town or scummy to say his questions are bad I'm not sure, but it is one or the other, because questions are not bad since in general they generate discussion, and content to be later used. I think your post is scummy for bristling against questions and responding with allegations that he's so Scum. To me that feels along the lines of OMGUS, in which you accuse him of being Scum because you don't like his questions, or him pushing the issues. Townies have nothing to hide. Nothing to evade. Nothing to deflect. If you are Town I would suggest you endeavor to answer all questions to the best of your ability if your goal in these games is for Town to win.

[TierShift]

Jesus can you make your posts readable

[Josh_B]

Josh_B

I've not been following the drama between Josh and Scripten. His content and engagement with the game makes me think Town, initially. The

wordiness makes my eyes bleed

. I'll very tentatively put him in my Townlist. So now I'd like to know what his reads are; especially his reads on Vettrock.
Do you aim to go after Scripten today, Josh?

This is the general consensus. I usually use spoilers to reduce game clutter. However this time, I wanted everything that I said about scripten to be in my Iso. I don't plan on going after him today. I want to get better reads on other players. At this point, I think vetrock is probably town. It was really tough to watch him replace my slot in Marvel and see him be so uncertain about Vezok. That game is over now, so :problem solved, problem staying solved. Marvel was a huge roller coaster for me that started back in April. I did a lot to be conf town, so it was disappointing to watch vettrock allow so much uncertainty to build up around the slot without ever addressing it.

I like seeing the responses from Asher.
I still think scripten is scummy.
I had strong feelings at the start of DP1 that BBT is town
Tiershift is in my town pile
ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.

[TierShift]

That last part on wake is not a towntell.

Who do you want to pursue today?

[Josh_B]

That last part on wake is not a towntell.

Who do you want to pursue today?

Specifically because it's wake, or are you just saying "not in general"

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Spoiler: Response to Wake

BlueBloodedToffee

As with Scripten, BBT is rather talkative. I wonder if BBT has any suspicions of Vettrock.

Yes, I do. Question further in post.

Well, crud. I was thinking about how Scripten made a case against Josh, and then turned around and killed Wolfy. I also considered how he talked so much. I noticed how BBT was chatty as well, and as I scrolled down his ISO I wondered if he'd jump on Wolfy. And sure enough he did.

What is this in reference to? Can you clarify please?

It's looking like Wolfy was a policy lynch

What? What makes you think Wolfy was a policy lynch? Did you not read my reasoning for voting him and his responses to any criticism thrown his way? He must have voted/FoS like 4 different people with his reads seemingly changing on a whim.

I'd like to see your current Scumreads, please. Out of curiosity, did you primarily lynch Wolfy for being anti-Town, or for being Scummy?

I thought he was scum.

27:

You're really pushing this issue. You have to be scum.

When you make posts like this, it feels not only forced, but also fake. It's that subtle twinge of fakeness that gives me doubts. I'd like answers from you on why you imply he's Scum, but then take your detour and go for Wolfy. Was it worth it? I think when you use strong language, going so far as to declare someone's Scum, your actions should follow suit with your words. Otherwise it makes you disingenuous, and no amount of posts will change that, in my opinion.

Again, I had my reasons for voting Wolfy. Look them up. His reactions to being voted just re-enforced my read even further.

What adds even more weight to my inquiry is your 79, in which you declare to all exactly why you think Scripten is Scum. Why the change? If you would, please walk me through on this. I daresay your earlier certainty betrays your innocence, because you've gone from declaring Scripten Scum to "

Funny how you think I am still scum-reading Scripten.

" Wolfy had flaws, to be sure, but he did flip Town, and you did flip-flop. If it's not too much trouble, I want answers, or I'm afraid I will begin to zero-in on your posts until my curiosity is satisfied.

It wasn't so much a change in read on Scripten, it was more to do with me thinking Wolfy looked much scummier.

I don't think Scripten is scum anymore. This is due to the way he joined the Wolfy wagon and then his questioning of my town-read on him.

This is the general consensus. I usually use spoilers to reduce game clutter. However this time, I wanted everything that I said about scripten to be in my Iso. I don't plan on going after him today. I want to get better reads on other players. At this point, I think vetrock is probably town. It was really tough to watch him replace my slot in Marvel and see him be so uncertain about Vezok. That game is over now, so :problem solved, problem staying solved. Marvel was a huge roller coaster for me that started back in April. I did a lot to be conf town, so it was disappointing to watch vettrock allow so much uncertainty to build up around the slot without ever addressing it.

I like seeing the responses from Asher.
I still think scripten is scummy.
I had strong feelings at the start of DP1 that BBT is town
Tiershift is in my town pile
ShadedMelee was null, Wake seems to be town. The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.

Just to clarify; your town-read on Vettrock is based on meta, right?

Your reads list is strange. You had strong feelings I was town at start of D1, how about now? Has that changed?

You're town-reading everyone in the game except Scripten; who you're not going to pursue today. So, what exactly are you planning on doing for D2?

Also;

Vettrock and Josh_B

- Can you explain what made you so sure Wolfy was town? Also, given that you both thought he was town, why did neither of you try to defend him? You both just let the wagon and lynch happen whilst subtly stating you thought he was town.

I think the whole wagon on Wolfy may have been town. If there was scum on it, it's one of Tier or Asher; leaning Asher.

[Scripten]

It means that, for some nebulous reason, both you and Tiershift agree that dodging questions is appropriate, pro-town behavior.

-

Scripten

(26)

Upon inspecting this, I'm unsure how much your position has evolved, and where you stand at the moment. What you've posted in this instance is that BBT and TS, for some nebulous reason, both agree that dodging questions is alright, pro-Town behavior. Since you's said this, do you still feel that way? If yes or no, why? I think if they are doing exactly as you say they are, then that issue should be pursued. Evading questions is anti-Town at best, scummy at worst. I'm not sure where deciding not to pursue that evasion stands in the spectrum. I don't think I can praise you or blame you, but you have pointed this out, yet shifted to Wolfy's demise (of which I'd like to understand your shift from Josh_B). In analyzing this bit, I find it pro-Town to point out the dodging of questions, and ever-so-slightly scummy/nullish for not chasing that issue to its natural conclusion.

Okay, jesus. Yeah, gonna have to jump on with the sentiment that you gotta cut your posts down a little bit. (And people are accusing -me- of posting walls. )
Anyway, cutting this into bit-size bits so I can reply to it.

Spoiler: Response to Wake88

Since you's said this, do you still feel that way? If yes or no, why?

I said what I said with regard to a very specific event that happened. It seems like you're asking me if I still believe that what I said was correct. In that case, yes. If it happens again, I will call it out all the same. However, other things have happened since that were more scummy in my eyes.

I'm not sure where deciding not to pursue that evasion stands in the spectrum. I don't think I can praise you or blame you, but you have pointed this out, yet shifted to Wolfy's demise (of which I'd like to understand your shift from Josh_B).

Wolfy's actions were significantly more scummy than Josh_B's. Beyond that, my case on Josh_B had nothing to do with him evading questions, only that he sheeped BBT's opinions wholesale and his case didn't hold up to my scrutiny. I moved away from Josh_B after Wolfy's flip because I feel like he had made our argument personal and became blind to the other players in the game.

Tiershift:

I'm finding your scumhunting to be very indirect all game. I'd like to see you interact more directly with other players. Do you have any standout scum reads you'd like to pursue? You said Josh_B sounded like a good wagon to you. Why didn't you vote him, then? You also questioned Wake88's posts, but didn't really confront him about them.

FoS - Josh_B:

Joining in: Who do you plan to pursue today? Like BBT and Tiershift, I'm particularly interested in what you intend to do today. Also, this is what he is referring to:

The inclusion of Mr. Ree in his questions makes it rather obvious that he planned to question him before he died, and therefore had expectations of him being in DP2.

This is not a towntell. Scum can fake a post like that SO easily. Your play this game has not struck me as very town-oriented.

[TierShift]

That last part on wake is not a towntell.

Who do you want to pursue today?

Specifically because it's wake, or are you just saying "not in general"

Not in general.

I'll have more time for this game from now on and will start a reread (and hopefully finish it) tomorrow.

Scripten, I did in fact vote josh before. I haven't cobfronted him or wake yet because I want to go back to day 1, re-examine voting patterns and wagons and then make up my mind about preliminary reads. Afterwards I'll get to questioning others.

[Scripten]

Scripten, I did in fact vote josh before. I haven't cobfronted him or wake yet because I want to go back to day 1, re-examine voting patterns and wagons and then make up my mind about preliminary reads. Afterwards I'll get to questioning others.

Sorry, I should have specified that I meant on Day 2. Nevertheless, you've answered my question. Any eta on that reread? I'm more than used to people promising updates that they never deliver on.

[TierShift]

I'll have more time for this game from now on and will start a reread (and hopefully finish it) tomorrow.

Literally same post

[Scripten]

I am a doofus and should probably not try to play mafia between classes. Carry on!

[Asher Kendrell]

As for Asher, I've already said i found his 'RVS' vote scummy and I think that was where I was looking for a wagon today. But I like his 253 and I'm yet to decide if newbscum or newbtown.

Asher, I'm glad to see you're going to be more active. I asked for your reads. Can you provide them?
With all this stuff you're saying about vettrock, what is your read on him? Does 'uncomfortable with' mean scum to you?

I'm willing to provide reads, but I'd prefer to wait until vettrock comments on what's been said today. If he doesn't show up, I can still make a list.

I'm leaning towards a scum read on vettrock, but I'm not confidant until he replies.

[TierShift]

Okay. Posting this as a reminder to get back atcha after vettrock posts.