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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:24 pm

Post by Josh_B »

In post 296, Scripten wrote:Josh_B: You seem to think that wolfy's play was ambiguously scummy. That is, you felt that he was just playing poorly as town rather than acting scummily. That doesn't really explain why you didn't try to stop his lynch and, despite not voting for him, didn't seem to have much of a problem with it. I mean, you're acting now as if you were campaigning for him being town, which is just objectively untrue.


How the fuck was I supposed to stop his lynch? I didn't know what his alignment was. I know what it was now, that it. I didn't campaign for him as town, and I'm sorry if I am comming off like that. There are two different points in time that we are talking about and perhaps what I'm saying about each point in time is getting mixed together.

Before the Lynch: I don't know if Wolfy is town or not.
After the Lynch: Wolfy was/is town. I know it for sure, and I'm going to treat it that way moving forward.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:25 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Even though this spoiler is directed at Josh, I would appreciate it if everybody could read it and provide some thoughts (as well as previous spoilers if they haven't been read already). I feel I am building a good case here but not getting input from anywhere else.

Spoiler: Response to Josh
In post 294, Josh_B wrote:
In post 286, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:You agree? What part are you agreeing with? It's obvious now that it was bad town play, so on D1, by this thought process you should have seen it as scummy play, no? This is what I don't understand


The reaction test was townie. Some of the other things, not so much. Obviously I couldn't have known if was bad town play or scum play. But I do know now, and I'm trying to move forward with that new information. This point seems to be where we are having a disconnect. I'm looking at Wolfy who died from being a VI. You still seem to be trying to prove that Wolfy was scum.

You haven't said what part you agreed with. I'm not trying to prove Wolfy was scum, I'm trying to understand how you were town-reading him yet done next to nothing to prevent his lynch.

This whole reaction test that you think was obvtown is ridiculous. You replied to Wolfy's reaction test with;

In post 122, Josh_B wrote:Can you please give more of an explanation? What did you decide was alignment indicative?

Then Wolfy went from you 'looking quite scummy' to;
In post 141, Wolfy wrote:So, in summary:
Josh_B and Scripten

two solid townies stuck in a conf bias loop that they won't get out of all game (or the best scum team ever)

And that was it. So your response, which you believed was enough for Wolfy to town-read you, (in you said;)
"Wolfy, I think it's fair that you used the tone of my response to decide on my alignment"
was the whole reaction test? That's it, just one post and you're conf. town to Wolfy and you just accept that. I guess you keep town-reads wherever you can get them when you're scum, amiright?


In post 295, Josh_B wrote:
In post 291, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Are you proposing a Scripten/Asher scum-team?


Maybe. We'll see. Are you proposing a Josh/vettrok scum team?

Maybe. We'll see. Still haven't decided if that was an all town wagon on Wolfy. Both scum white-knighting doesn't sit right with me though.

I would still like you to respond to this post but I think I have seen enough now.

VOTE: Josh_B
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:27 pm

Post by Wake1 »

I'm meaning each observation noted within that post. The goal is to get feedback (which is usually valuable) to see if my current views are accurate or not. Do you think, if it became a list using bullet points, it would be easier to digest?
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:29 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Josh can you elaborate on this please; given that you're saying you didn't know if Wolfy was town or not. This quote suggests you were leaning town on him.
In post 237, Josh_B wrote:
Let me be honest, I'm not hammering Wolfy right now because his vote on me was something that I would do if two other players were arguing in circles about irrelevant useless crap that really wasn't all that alignment indicative.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:33 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Wake
: Tier is probably town. You should put more effort/energy elsewhere.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:37 pm

Post by Wake1 »

In post 304, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Wake
: Tier is probably town. You should put more effort/energy elsewhere.


With respect to you and your views, I'm not so sure about that. There are some things from him I'd like answers on. If you feel he is Town, and that I should actually put effort and energy elsewhere, I think the best path towards that would be to peruse the post I made regarding him, and point out exactly why my observations are flawed and/or unhelpful. I'm not sure what to think of you implying I should look elsewhere (if that is not true, please correct me).
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:42 pm

Post by Scripten »

In post 302, Wake1 wrote:I'm meaning each observation noted within that post. The goal is to get feedback (which is usually valuable) to see if my current views are accurate or not. Do you think, if it became a list using bullet points, it would be easier to digest?


God yes. If you numbered them, I would send you a cookie.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:45 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 305, Wake1 wrote:
With respect to you and your views, I'm not so sure about that. There are some things from him I'd like answers on. If you feel he is Town, and that I should actually put effort and energy elsewhere, I think the best path towards that would be to peruse the post I made regarding him, and point out exactly why my observations are flawed and/or unhelpful. I'm not sure what to think of you implying I should look elsewhere (if that is not true, please correct me).

I'm 100% saying you should look elsewhere (Hint: Josh).

I don't explain town-reads, it's unhelpful. The only reason I went into some detail on Scripten is because it was a developed read, from scum to town, and I don't mind explaining my thoughts/progression in doing so.

I feel Tier has been town since near the beginning of the game.

We may have to agree to disagree.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:03 pm

Post by Asher Kendrell »

In response to wake88 asking for opinions on the tiershift post

Spoiler:
In post 298, Wake1 wrote:

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
Your vote on Mr. Ree in () makes me wonder why it was cast. It looks like an OMGUS, which is inherently anti-Town, or so the majority says. It didn't escape me how you voted for Ree in (), and then asked BBT in () if he thought Ree's vote was random. If you don't think Ree's vote was random, then you should be able to explain why you thought otherwise. Though your questions in () pangs of Townish curiosity, your () leaves me without complete understanding.


To me, tiershift's vote looks as random as the rest of them, with his comment being a small jab at mr_ree. I think mr_ree's vote was random, but it looks like tier/bbt/scripten were just trying to get a discussion started. Neither post seems scummy or town to me.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
() is difficult to weigh. Questions are good for illumination and discussion. You may not feel his questions needed to be answered, but the content derived from the discussion revolving said questions can prove fruitful. In fact part of our discussion involves them even now.


The questions were very generic, but tier or bbt could have at least tried to answer them. On the other hand, discussion did get started so the questions achieved their goal.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
() and () leave me wondering why you made them. There should have been a reason, yet I'm not seeing it. Your explanation would be appreciated. Your () rings Townish, yet it's generic and safe, in my humble opinion. It does not look like Ree was the best wagon, per your (). I would like some answers from you on this. The grammatical errors in () probably mean nothing. It also doesn't seem you are using the function which stops and allows you to preview/edit your post when someone's posted before you've finished typing. That, too, likely means nothing, although knowing these subtleties isn't inherently detrimental. Scum doesn't have Daystart, so in () it can't be said that you and BBT were Scum partners who spoke privately before the Day started, which could have explained you two thinking the same thing around the same time. I'm not certain what to think of (). Same with ().


Most of these posts seem to be for shits and giggles, rather than for discussion. Nothing really to be gained here.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
Content is and continues to be generated because those questions were put forth and discussed (). Again it pangs Townish when you ask BBT for the scum motivation in pushing that issue. You can never tell, apropos (). He could be an alt. () and () begets indifference. For the third time, TierShift says something that reads Townish in (). At this point I am Townreading him a little.


I think I'd agree with the slight town read. 42 seems to be an attempt to also get vettrock more involved with the conversation, which doesn't really happen.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
TierShift, maybe you should not have acted so hastily when you cast your vote for Vettrock in () for, as you call it, unnecessary prolongation of RVS. Him posting a supposedly RVS vote in () isn't grounds for a serious vote, especially when I've played in games when the person's first post, a random vote, was after the #100 mark. Let's discuss this further, because this latest action is stirring up doubt in your alignment.


You have played in games with random votess past post #100, I have not, and I can't really speak for anyone else here. Vettrock's vote to me seems less random, more like he's trying to create a conflict/throw a wrench in the works. Still early enough in the game that I don't think either of their votes means much in terms of alignment.


In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
Please share what () is regarding. An elaboration on () would help, because it can be difficult understanding what you're meaning at times. I mean no disrespect by that. I notice in () that you didn't vote Josh_B near the timeframe when he voted for Vettrock and then for Scripten. Josh's () was obviously a random vote, yet your accusation of him prolonging RVS unnecessarily doesn't materialize. At that point your vote is still on Vettrock, and you do indeed have time to change it from him to Josh, since by your logic when it comes to the unnecessary prolongation of RVS, #61 must be a worse offense than #38.


53 seems to be in regards to 51, but that's just a guess. I can't see the point of 55, so that confuses me as well. 65 seems to be questioning what about the push was scummy? Given that ~5 hours happen between josh's rvs and tier commenting, it looks like he skipped over 61 for 63 because 63 was an actual vote. Josh replaced the rvs rather quickly, whereas vettrock never changed his vote.



In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
If you would, I'd like to know what your view is on Scumtells, per your (). In your words overreaction and counterpushing aren't Scumtells. I wonder if you think hypocrisy is.


I'd disagree with tiershift here. While I understand that overreaction and counterpushing don't necessarily point out scum, as they are reactions of anyone who feels they are being targeted or unfairly treated, I think they can also be used by scum to appear more townish. I can't speak for his view on hypocrisy.


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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:22 pm

Post by Josh_B »


I'm having a hard time responding to what you are saying because we don't agree on the premises.
You say that I was convinced that Wolfy was town, even though I wasn't. Your continued questions are based on me being convinced that Wolfy was town during DP1. Particularly "why didn't you try harder to stop the lynch?" And my answers is
"I didn't know if he was or wasn't town."
I'm sorry that I wasn't utterly convinced that he was scum, the way you were. I also think that you are trying to push this issue that I should have been convinced one way or the other, or that I was convinced of something that I wasn't.

And fuck.. I'm losing posts.
Last edited by The Bulge on Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:50 pm

Post by Josh_B »

Wake, I don't know if Tiershift is town, but if he was town, I think he would have chosen a better NK.

Mr. Ree was an odd night kill. Can anyone make a case about why they think he was killed?
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:20 pm

Post by The Bulge »

Votecount 2.1

BlueBloodedToffee (0) -

Asher Kendrell (1) -
Josh_B
Josh_B (1) -
BlueBloodedToffee
Scripten (0) -

Wake88 (0) -

TierShift (0) -

vettrock (0) -


Not Voting -
Asher Kendrell, Scripten, Wake88, TierShift, vettrock

With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

Deadline in (expired on 2014-09-14 20:28:00) (September 14).
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:39 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 297, Josh_B wrote:Teirshift,
Spoiler: another spoiler because it's fun to make spoilers and most of theinformation is already in the game
Concerning Scripten
In post 71, Josh_B wrote:We're barely off the first page, and he's already coming up with scum tells that look more contrived than convincing.


I don't know what your definition of sheeping is, but my definition is "following another player for the sake of following another player, without having your own ideas." At any point does it appear that I do not have my own ideas?
I tried to make a joke about being called a sheep, as though my comments weren't original enough by scripten's standards. It seems like he has pretty lofty standards, or he's just trying to press anything that can get traction. What do you think about that?


You know, all those pages and I still don't know what the whole point of the sheeping thing was except to call me scummy over something rediculous. I agree'd with BBT at the beginning of the game, if you want to call that a sheep, call it a sheep whatever. But that's a pretty weak case.

You just repeated and slightly altered BBT's arguments. I call that a sheep, yes. But sheeping is not scummy by itself. Sheeping bad reasoning is. I have trouble seeing two town players reach that same conclusion. It is easy to imagine scum seeing a case being pushed against someone and thinking 'hey, I can do that!'.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:47 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 309, Josh_B wrote:

I'm having a hard time responding to what you are saying because we don't agree on the premises.
You say that I was convinced that Wolfy was town, even though I wasn't. Your continued questions are based on me being convinced that Wolfy was town during DP1. Particularly "why didn't you try harder to stop the lynch?" And my answers is
"I didn't know if he was or wasn't town."
I'm sorry that I wasn't utterly convinced that he was scum, the way you were. I also think that you are trying to push this issue that I should have been convinced one way or the other, or that I was convinced of something that I wasn't.

And fuck.. I'm losing posts.

Can you respond to this quote below? It leads me to believe you thought Wolfy was town, or was at least leaning on him being town.
In post 237, Josh_B wrote:
Let me be honest, I'm not hammering Wolfy right now because his vote on me was something that I would do if two other players were arguing in circles about irrelevant useless crap that really wasn't all that alignment indicative.

I believe this quote makes more sense if you add;
In post 237, Josh_B wrote:
Let me be honest, I'm not hammering Wolfy right now because his vote on me was something that I would do if
I was town and
two other players were arguing in circles about irrelevant useless crap that really wasn't all that alignment indicative.

That's how I am reading that quote. Correct me if I'm wrong and explain what you mean when you say 'it's something you would do'.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:48 pm

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Also, why is nobody placing any votes?

It's concerning.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:50 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 165, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I wouldn't expect you to bus your partner right now. When you made your first post restating your case on Josh it looked like you were trying to keep a counter-wagon going to oppose the Wolfy one I was starting.

However, you changed that and voted for him. Therefore, right now, you're probably town and Wolfy is scum.

Your townread on scripten was based on his willingness to vote scum (wolfy). Now that this scum flipped town, does that affect your scripten read?
In post 176, Josh_B wrote:Scripten, I don't think your suspected towniness had as much to do with your actions as they did with wolfy's.

Solid town? Seriously?

Wolfy, I think it's fair that you used the tone of my response to decide on my alignment, you didn't answer the question about what made you decide on alignment in the first place.

And I can see a vote on Mr.E, but there really isn't any pressure on him, or much interactions to justify a vote, so right now your vote looks terrible, can you explain it. Maybe I'll do that PbPA and see what he has to say about it. But later, when I get off work.

Noting that josh abstained from commenting on the thing that mattered at the time: the wolfy wagon.
In post 187, Asher Kendrell wrote:VOTE: Wolfy
Can't trust a wolf.

:neutral:
I might need to do some meta research on this guy.
In post 212, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Jesus Christ. I don't believe you're this bad at mafia. Like, I just don't.


Think about it. Think about the question and what my response could be. Think who that might help, think who gets to use that information over N1...Jesus Christ.

PEdit - Wolfy,
stop insulting me. I don't know why you're making this personal.

:lol:
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:57 pm

Post by TierShift »

Finished day 1.
In post 234, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
And this reads list hasn't changed/updated in nearly 4 pages worth of posts? Even after all your unvoting and voting? Even after saying I am scummier than scum despite apparently town-reading me?

Come on man, you just put the final nail in your own coffin.

Mr. Ree, hammer awayyyyyyyy!

I'm not overly sad at the fast hammer, but I don't like you pushing for a hammer this hard. I don't call you scummy for it, but it's something in your playstyle you might want to fix.
In post 236, vettrock wrote:Calling for a hammer at this point is scummy in my book. BBT's claims that Wolfy is certain scum is scummy provided Wolfy flips town. I don't see what the town gains by lynching at this point. Personally, I think it takes a bit longer to get good reads on people. Maybe I don't have the Uber skills of all of you, but knowing with "certainty" that someone will flip scum is something that only scum can say.

While I'm not for dragging things out unnecessarily, lynching at this point is anti-town.

Complaining about wagon without contributing
In post 240, vettrock wrote:I'm not convinced Wolfy is scum. The problem is everyone on the wagon can't be scum since there are only two scum. I think rushing to this lynch is incredibly anti-town.

Same comment.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:09 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 251, Wake1 wrote:I've not been following the drama between Josh and Scripten. His content and engagement with the game makes me think Town, initially. The wordiness makes my eyes bleed. I'll very tentatively put him in my Townlist. So now I'd like to know what his reads are; especially his reads on Vettrock.
Do you aim to go after Scripten today, Josh?

Can you elaborate?
In post 251, Wake1 wrote:Not much to work with, because many of the posts are so short. What do you think of Josh_B, Vettrock, or an Asher wagon today, TS? If you read my bit on Vettrock down below, do you think it feels like he's playing safe and guardedly? Why did you change from Josh to Wolfy? I'm having difficulty reading TS, because he hasn't done much to make me believe or distrust him. I do want to know if he follows my train of thought on Vettrock.

Incidentally, I have the wagons you're talking about as my biggest scumreads at this point.

I think vettrock is not playing at all and everything he has said, feels off.

I changed to wolfy because I was less certain of joshscum than of wolfyscum. If you want elaboration on that, feel free to ask.
In post 252, Wake1 wrote:As it is right now, I have a tentative Townread on you. Your posts ring with reason, but questions abound, and I'd like them to be answered in full, if it's not too much trouble. It would certainly help me feel you're a member of Town.

What posts of his 'ring with reason'? Is it only because of this 'reason' you have a townread on him?
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:30 pm

Post by TierShift »

In post 254, Wake1 wrote:I have no doubt there's at least one member of Scum on Wolfy's wagon.

Wy do you think so and who is that member, most likely?
In post 258, Asher Kendrell wrote:
In post 257, Wake1 wrote:Asher, please share your thoughts on Vettrock.


Vettrock is kind of a mystery to me. He hasn't done anything outwardly scummy, but not a lot of pro-town moves either. He seems to be mostly sitting on the fence to me.

In post 116, vettrock wrote:
In post 68, Scripten wrote:
At least we've had a few more players posting now. So, let's try this again.

Vettrock:
If you were scum, who would you target for a night kill assuming the day ended right now with a no lynch?


If the Day ended right now and I was scum it is hard to say who I would nightkill. I think we need a bit more information, as at this point I'd just have to pick a random person. A nightkill should be the person most believed to be town, or a person that is particularly threatening to you. The problem with the second option, is it points the finger at you unless they also fall under the first catagory. As there isn't anyone who is generally accepted as town at this point, I'd have to go random.


Vettrock doesn't really give an answer, only that his hypothetical night kill would have to be random or the most believed to be town. On the one hand, vettrock's the only player who hasn't been voted against yet, and his only vote was on shaded, who posted basically nothing before being replaced by you. He seemed pretty convinced that wolfy wasn't scum, and that lynching him was anti-town. To me it seems like vettrock has been skirting on the edge rather than taking a stance. His opinions on wolfy didn't really matter because his vote wasn't needed to lynch.

I'm not feeling comfortable with vettrock. If he was convinced about wolfy's innocence, he could have fought harder. If he thought he was scummy, he could have stated his intent to hammer as well. It seems convenient that he could slip past day 1 with no suspicion and avoided the wagon.

I like where this guy is looking.
[
In post 273, Asher Kendrell wrote:[
I'm willing to provide reads, but I'd prefer to wait until vettrock comments on what's been said today. If he doesn't show up, I can still make a list.

Are you done waiting? Who else do you think is scummy?
In post 275, Josh_B wrote:The scumminess of the wagon outwieghed the scumminess of the player.

What made the wagon scummy?
From my POV, scripten looked very opportunistic. Although at this point I will admit that I'm probably in a confbias loop of his behavior.

Why do you think you are in confbias? How does that affect your read on scripten?
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:03 am

Post by TierShift »

Spoiler: happy days, wake
I'll bold responses, since I'm on my phone.
In post 278, Wake1 wrote:Good evening TierShift.

...

I'd like to talk with you, please. I need to get a better footing on your alignment this game. Your cooperation would be valued.

Please note this, everyone.


I'm noting my cooperation would be valued.


Your vote on Mr. Ree in () makes me wonder why it was cast. It looks like an OMGUS, which is inherently anti-Town, or so the majority says. It didn't escape me how you voted for Ree in (), and then asked BBT in () if he thought Ree's vote was random. If you don't think Ree's vote was random, then you should be able to explain why you thought otherwise. Though your questions in () pangs of Townish curiosity, your () leaves me without complete understanding.
all right, an ongoing game prompted me to believe mr_ree's vote wasn't random. I can't explain further. However, seeing as BBT probably did not know about the rationale for me not believing it was random, I wondered why
he
thought it wasn't random.


() is difficult to weigh. Questions are good for illumination and discussion. You may not feel his questions needed to be answered, but the content derived from the discussion revolving said questions can prove fruitful. In fact part of our discussion involves them even now.
the questions were utterly useless and I felt that throwing out a snarky remark about that would be better for discussion purposes than staying silent or answering the questions. I was proven right.


() and () leave me wondering why you made them. There should have been a reason, yet I'm not seeing it. Your explanation would be appreciated.
scripten was being lame and BBT's was lame too.


Your () rings Townish, yet it's generic and safe, in my humble opinion. It does not look like Ree was the best wagon, per your (). I would like some answers from you on this.
I don't know what you want me to say here. I was mostly thinking scripten's questions were going nowhere. So I called for a ree wagon.


The grammatical errors in () probably mean nothing. It also doesn't seem you are using the function which stops and allows you to preview/edit your post when someone's posted before you've finished typing. That, too, likely means nothing, although knowing these subtleties isn't inherently detrimental. Scum doesn't have Daystart, so in () it can't be said that you and BBT were Scum partners who spoke privately before the Day started, which could have explained you two thinking the same thing around the same time. I'm not certain what to think of (). Same with ().
Since I'm not a native speaker, I'd like you to tell me which grammatical mistakes I made. This paragraph seems of little relevance, though.


Content is and continues to be generated because those questions were put forth and discussed (). Again it pangs Townish when you ask BBT for the scum motivation in pushing that issue. You can never tell, apropos (). He could be an alt. () and () begets indifference. For the third time, TierShift says something that reads Townish in (). At this point I am Townreading him a little.

TierShift, maybe you should not have acted so hastily when you cast your vote for Vettrock in () for, as you call it, unnecessary prolongation of RVS. Him posting a supposedly RVS vote in () isn't grounds for a serious vote, especially when I've played in games when the person's first post, a random vote, was after the #100 mark. Let's discuss this further, because this latest action is stirring up doubt in your alignment.
I saw the first thing I considered scummy, so I voted it. Trying to return to RVS is scummy, whether you like it or not. Not very, but enough to cast a vote. Also done with faint hopes vettrock would find it interesting enough to talk about.


Please share what () is regarding. An elaboration on () would help, because it can be difficult understanding what you're meaning at times. I mean no disrespect by that.
Can you stop being overly polite, please?
53 was a question aimed at vettrock, 55 regarded scripten thinking me and bbt were buddies for something he didn't find too strong a tell himself.

I notice in () that you didn't vote Josh_B near the timeframe when he voted for Vettrock and then for Scripten. Josh's () was obviously a random vote, yet your accusation of him prolonging RVS unnecessarily doesn't materialize. At that point your vote is still on Vettrock, and you do indeed have time to change it from him to Josh, since by your logic when it comes to the unnecessary prolongation of RVS, #61 must be a worse offense than #38.

Josh wasn't prolonging RVS since he read the game and voted seriously immediately after. He actually contrivuted while vettrock failed to do so.


If you would, I'd like to know what your view is on Scumtells, per your (). In your words overreaction and counterpushing aren't Scumtells. I wonder if you think hypocrisy is.
It all depends on context. There are very, very few scumtells that can be applied at any time. Hypocrisy can be a playstyle thing and isn't necessarily scummy. Same goes for the other two, although a bit less. However, if you're using these to further your own cause and not as genuine paranoia, I take it as a scumtell.


I need to rest. Will be back tomorrow to rejoin you on this. Goodnight everyone.

sure, come again. What's with this focus on me, anyway?
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:21 am

Post by TierShift »

In post 280, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Mr. Ree clearly delayed the hammer so that discussion could take place. All you did to try and prevent the lynch was and , and that was mostly about how anti-town it was to lynch Wolfy. Not actually trying to defend Wolfy himself.

Also, in you eluded to Scripten being slightly scummy but you weren't ready to call him scum yet. You instead decided to leave your vote on Shaded, an inactive. Why was that?

VOTE: Vettrock

Goodposting
In post 290, Josh_B wrote:I considered that wolfy might be scum. But him not being scum means something different than him actually being scum. I've considered the off wagoners. Myself, Shaded, and Vettrock. In order for both scum to be off the wagon, it has to be vettrock and wake. Both seem town to me, so scum is probably not off the wagon.

VOTE: asher

Why do vettrock and wake seem town to you?
In post 308, Asher Kendrell wrote:
In response to wake88 asking for opinions on the tiershift post

Spoiler:
In post 298, Wake1 wrote:

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
Your vote on Mr. Ree in () makes me wonder why it was cast. It looks like an OMGUS, which is inherently anti-Town, or so the majority says. It didn't escape me how you voted for Ree in (), and then asked BBT in () if he thought Ree's vote was random. If you don't think Ree's vote was random, then you should be able to explain why you thought otherwise. Though your questions in () pangs of Townish curiosity, your () leaves me without complete understanding.


To me, tiershift's vote looks as random as the rest of them, with his comment being a small jab at mr_ree. I think mr_ree's vote was random, but it looks like tier/bbt/scripten were just trying to get a discussion started. Neither post seems scummy or town to me.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
() is difficult to weigh. Questions are good for illumination and discussion. You may not feel his questions needed to be answered, but the content derived from the discussion revolving said questions can prove fruitful. In fact part of our discussion involves them even now.


The questions were very generic, but tier or bbt could have at least tried to answer them. On the other hand, discussion did get started so the questions achieved their goal.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
() and () leave me wondering why you made them. There should have been a reason, yet I'm not seeing it. Your explanation would be appreciated. Your () rings Townish, yet it's generic and safe, in my humble opinion. It does not look like Ree was the best wagon, per your (). I would like some answers from you on this. The grammatical errors in () probably mean nothing. It also doesn't seem you are using the function which stops and allows you to preview/edit your post when someone's posted before you've finished typing. That, too, likely means nothing, although knowing these subtleties isn't inherently detrimental. Scum doesn't have Daystart, so in () it can't be said that you and BBT were Scum partners who spoke privately before the Day started, which could have explained you two thinking the same thing around the same time. I'm not certain what to think of (). Same with ().


Most of these posts seem to be for shits and giggles, rather than for discussion. Nothing really to be gained here.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
Content is and continues to be generated because those questions were put forth and discussed (). Again it pangs Townish when you ask BBT for the scum motivation in pushing that issue. You can never tell, apropos (). He could be an alt. () and () begets indifference. For the third time, TierShift says something that reads Townish in (). At this point I am Townreading him a little.


I think I'd agree with the slight town read. 42 seems to be an attempt to also get vettrock more involved with the conversation, which doesn't really happen.

In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
TierShift, maybe you should not have acted so hastily when you cast your vote for Vettrock in () for, as you call it, unnecessary prolongation of RVS. Him posting a supposedly RVS vote in () isn't grounds for a serious vote, especially when I've played in games when the person's first post, a random vote, was after the #100 mark. Let's discuss this further, because this latest action is stirring up doubt in your alignment.


You have played in games with random votess past post #100, I have not, and I can't really speak for anyone else here. Vettrock's vote to me seems less random, more like he's trying to create a conflict/throw a wrench in the works. Still early enough in the game that I don't think either of their votes means much in terms of alignment.


In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
Please share what () is regarding. An elaboration on () would help, because it can be difficult understanding what you're meaning at times. I mean no disrespect by that. I notice in () that you didn't vote Josh_B near the timeframe when he voted for Vettrock and then for Scripten. Josh's () was obviously a random vote, yet your accusation of him prolonging RVS unnecessarily doesn't materialize. At that point your vote is still on Vettrock, and you do indeed have time to change it from him to Josh, since by your logic when it comes to the unnecessary prolongation of RVS, #61 must be a worse offense than #38.


53 seems to be in regards to 51, but that's just a guess. I can't see the point of 55, so that confuses me as well. 65 seems to be questioning what about the push was scummy? Given that ~5 hours happen between josh's rvs and tier commenting, it looks like he skipped over 61 for 63 because 63 was an actual vote. Josh replaced the rvs rather quickly, whereas vettrock never changed his vote.



In post 278, Wake1 wrote:
If you would, I'd like to know what your view is on Scumtells, per your (). In your words overreaction and counterpushing aren't Scumtells. I wonder if you think hypocrisy is.


I'd disagree with tiershift here. While I understand that overreaction and counterpushing don't necessarily point out scum, as they are reactions of anyone who feels they are being targeted or unfairly treated, I think they can also be used by scum to appear more townish. I can't speak for his view on hypocrisy.


I think I got everything.

I'm not happy with what asher chose to respond to.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:27 am

Post by TierShift »

Okay, here is where I stand. I have strong townreads on scripten and BBT. Wake is tbd and the rest I consider scummy, but they can't all be scum.

Asher is just scummy as fuck in general. I mustn't forget to meta him. I want to vote him a lot.
But there is also josh who has over the course of the game taken nothing but convenient stances who now is voting for him. Josh seems to be defending the off-wagoners for reasons I can't see if he were town. His buddies are very likely in there, if he's scum.
Vettrock I want gone too since I can very easily see him being paired up wirh either asher or josh.

I have outstanding questions to all three of them and I'd like them to answer these asap.

Let's see what this does.

VOTE: josh
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:13 am

Post by Josh_B »

In post 313, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I believe this quote makes more sense if you add;
In post 237, Josh_B wrote:
Let me be honest, I'm not hammering Wolfy right now because his vote on me was something that I would do if I was town and two other players were arguing in circles about irrelevant useless crap that really wasn't all that alignment indicative.

That's how I am reading that quote. Correct me if I'm wrong and explain what you mean when you say 'it's something you would do'.


That's that twisty manipulative bullshit, you can't read it the way I wrote it cause it doesn't fit your agenda. How does it make more sense by you adding in some outlandish flim-flam?
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:15 am

Post by Josh_B »

In post 315, TierShift wrote:Your townread on scripten was based on his willingness to vote scum (wolfy). Now that this scum flipped town, does that affect your scripten read?


Thanks asking this Tiershift. Maybe he'll respond if you ask him.
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:28 am

Post by Scripten »

In post 322, Josh_B wrote:
That's that twisty manipulative bullshit, you can't read it the way I wrote it cause it doesn't fit your agenda. How does it make more sense by you adding in some outlandish flim-flam?


So a statement made in the context of you being town is outlandish flim-flam. Are you even trying? This is L-1. Perhaps you can try answering questions instead of weaseling around them?

VOTE: Josh_B

If Josh_B flips scum, I'm going to say vettrock is his partner. If I'm wrong, Vettrock, please come out of the woodwork and help us scumhunt instead of lurking like you have been all game.

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