Micro 365 - ALL YEAR LONG haha see what i did there (over)

[Dr Pants]

VOTE: Dr Pants

confirmed scum

[Dr Pants]

btw N, my group is huckleberry in the top post, but Ilama in the VC

what kind of fruit shenanigans is this

[Dr Pants]

its a

mystery

[Dr Pants]

I have many friends

[Dr Pants]

egads you've seen through my ruse!!!!

VOTE: Maruchan

since you know, self votes don't count in this setup

[Dr Pants]

you get town points though, good for you

[Dr Pants]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5723114

from the original rule set!

"4. Self votes will NOT be counted, whether as a hammer vote or otherwise."

[Dr Pants]

k

[Dr Pants]

but now watch while it takes my group a surprisingly long time to agree to vote me out, because if one is scum they know their gonna get lynched once I flip town

[Dr Pants]

[Dr Pants]

Page 1 reads!!!

xay is town
naz is semi town
sns is town b/c he called N_M and

N_M is scum
Salamance is scum

both get scum reads for not engaging with their fruit groups

[Dr Pants]

yup!

[Dr Pants]

oh yeah and why sns is right about N_M:

he can only vote for sns and you. he enters game and you've posted some. but opts to not rvs vote, and instead sheeps you on your opinion of someone outside of your lynch group.

[Dr Pants]

the towniest thing that can be done at this point is to engage with your group. as town, you know that most likely 1 of the 2 people in your group is scum. so, upon entry into the game, why would you be inclined to show you agree with a statement someone from your group (who could easily be scum) about someone who isn't in your group.

obviously all page 1 reads can change, but that's what my initial reaction to N_M was

[Dr Pants]

which was a repeat of what Naz had just said

[Dr Pants]

he was egoposting by saying "egopost"?

note that I am highly caffinated atm so its entirely possible im looking wayyyy too into this

[Dr Pants]

but why would N_M need to egopost? I can see what you are saying about Naz but since N_M said the same thing I figured it was in reference to me dicking around

[Dr Pants]

are you saying "you two" was in reference to your group?

[Dr Pants]

well there goes all of my reads

[Dr Pants]

well duh, maru hasn't been around and I'll talk to anyone

[Dr Pants]

plus screw this "ill only talk to my group nonsense"

one group has only town, so that idea just waists time

[Dr Pants]

maru's scum though, the scum read on xay is bull

[Dr Pants]

plus his read on me ignores the part where I claimed scum, and his read on you ignores the part where you reacted to me

in essence, he ignored possible evidence for a case and instead opted to do his reads via PoE

[Dr Pants]

judging by the fact that espresso is posting in all his other games atm, he probably forgot about this one

[Dr Pants]

But I won't agree to that, because I know pants thinks I am scum because I chose to ignore the fact that I have a 33% chance of being *REQUIRED* to miss-lynch a townie by game rules, and pretend in my happy go lucky make believe world, that I'm either lynching town, or lynching scum.

Actually this is the correct mindset, and not why I think you are scum. I completely agree that the best way to do this is to play as if there was a guaranteed scum in every group. I think you are scum because I liked the way Xay reacted to me, and your reasons for your read seemed forced.

[Dr Pants]

Oh man. We're getting active.

Its beautiful

[Dr Pants]

Initial thoughts are that there is almost definitely a scum in Huckleberries.

This post seems out of place

[Dr Pants]

And now Pants lost his town read.

79 says in layman's terms "i think you're scum because i already committed myself to buddying xayzeck and called him town so i can't call maruchan town he must be scum"

lol ok? Im saying that Xay gave the reaction I expected from town, and your scum read of Xay was what I expected from scum.

N_M soft assertion that "theirs definitely scum in

this

group" makes me think that N_M is scum.

[Dr Pants]

here's my thought process behind all of this, if you think its wrong in some way then go for it but you should at least gather that I thought this through:

I self vote, and claim scum. In doing so, I rob both you and Xay of the ability to do and RVS vote.

Now, in cases where town claims scum and tries to get lynched, what is the optimal move for scum to make? If scum engages with said townie, they have to fake 2 reactions: reacting to the scum claim and reacting to the town flip. Additionally, spearheading a lynch against a player who pulled a gambit like that would throw a lot of focus and attention onto whoever did so. In short, engaging with a townie who claimed scum is a bad idea as scum.

Now, as town, if a player claims scum then the optimal move is to vote that person. There is no need to worry about the flip and any attention that may come form it.

In short, scum avoids the gambit, town is attracted to it. Since Xay's reaction was to say "uhhh no" and instantly vote me, I see Xay as town. Since you opened by scum reading Xay via PoE, I see you as scum.

Scum is much more inclined to play with their brains than with their balls. Xay was playing with his balls on page 1.

[Dr Pants]

[Dr Pants]

its not your seriousness maru, I literally just explained my entire thought process

[Dr Pants]

oh you.

I tell you, 100% transparently why I think you are scum. I include my assumptions about how I think scum will play. Your response? "Pants is scum b/c he doesn't know my meta game"



take shots at my arguments all you want but that is just plain stupid

and while we're boasting, let me tell you something, mr. "I have NEVER been Lynched day 1".

I have NEVER been lynched, period.

[Dr Pants]

...

you need to learn to read.

I said as SCUM I have never been lynched day one.
I said as town I die more often day one than anything else. I think half of my deaths are town day 1 lynches.

This is useless meta for this game though. "as scum I derp about day 1 and live" means nothing in a game like this, due to the group lynch mechanic

you are good at digging holes for yourself though

[Dr Pants]

@ Salamance: PM your members then

@ Sns: sorry I find 1v1 bitch-fighting incredibly fun

[Dr Pants]

I PM'd Espresso. Just for you

[Dr Pants]

[quote="In post 117, Espressojet"
FUCK, I was gonna pull the same stunt when I first read the rules in the queue!

I have many friends

vote me and we can do a triangle voting thingy wouldn't that be cool

jk that's lame

VOTE: Pants

How did Xayzexk not get immediately lynched for trying to hammer without a cause?[/quote]

b/c none of the lynches count until all three groups lynch. i guess you should have

read the rules in the queue!

[Dr Pants]

no this one was my bad, not yours sorry N

[Dr Pants]

Scum have daytalk, so relational tells will not be as strong as in night-talk games, and scum can furthermore coordinate closely.

I checked the rule list for this game and the original. Scum daytalk is never listed. Everyone in your group should be voting you asap.

[Dr Pants]

I'm full of dumb. Ignore me pls

[Dr Pants]

I will say though Salamance, the notion that you need to hurry along a lynch cause the rest of the groups are settled is B.S. Use the time you need, and lynch scum. k thx

[Dr Pants]

Scum have daytalk, so relational tells will not be as strong as in night-talk games, and scum can furthermore coordinate closely.

I checked the rule list for this game and the original. Scum daytalk is never listed. Everyone in your group should be voting you asap.

Isn't this also what I JUST finished calling you town, for suggesting we NOT do it? (playing overlord to other group's votes?)

I was dumb and thought I saw an obvious slip. Plus, while I agree that each group should be primarily concerned on figuring themselves out, I have repeated said that I will give opinions on other groups.

[Dr Pants]

true, but I play aggressively.

hold back for a sec and lets temporarily olive branch. give me a well thought out case for why I should vote Xay over you. Examine the actual arguments (not BS chest puffing fluff) that I've made and tell me what you agree/disagree with.

pedit:

[Dr Pants]

^funny, b/c I'm playing THE EXACT SAME AS THE LAST GAME we played together

[Dr Pants]

plus, wasn't you who gave my scum game a rave review last time? this is literally my town meta game to a T

pedit: do you seriously doubt me espresso? how is this any different than the beginning of Dr Pepper

[Dr Pants]

plus I have been 100% transparent with my thought process in this game. Maru, scum or not, has ignored my actual argument and gone for the cliff notes version of a defense

[Dr Pants]

Ok. Well lets make this a learning experience for you then.

Describe, in detail, what makes me "very scummy". Give a full, comprehensive argument.

If you don't believe I've never been lynched, check my wiki and my completed games history. But, tbh, its not relevent

@ Salamance: Ignore your criticism of me and think of it this way: I gave Maru a full argument. I have been transparent. I have said why I am doing what I am doing. I can be hostile towards you if you haven't done anything

@ Espresso: Sweet jesus you can be thick. What of my posts is from a scum mindset? use specifics and examples.

@ Both of you: remember the part where you can only lynch in your own pool? and where you have a good shot of getting scum if you actually put your mind to it?

[Dr Pants]

edit: I can't be hostile

[Dr Pants]

btw, if you find you and someone within your group have similar thoughts about someone external to the group, then one of you is likely scum

[Dr Pants]

Ok

1)I do believe you. I said

WOULDN'T

believe it. Lern 2 grammmrr.

2)I've already clearly laid out posts I think are scummy

3)Do you want me to cease scumhunting you, or anyone else outside my group for that matter? Is that what you're suggesting? Because the scummiest thing anybody can suggest is to stop scumhunting. And I know you're gonna pull the "but i nevr sed 2 stop scumhuntng" crap, but that's what you're clearly saying, that I shouldn't be examining other players right now.

4)Good shot? There's a one in three chance that there isn't even a scum within our group. Jesus, one of our members isn't even HERE. I JUST got here, and I've already figured out what I want to do in this group for myself.

You've seen me do my overconfident "I'm town I'll show you by lynching scum" speech. What happened then? I lynched the fucking scum. Now, if I manage to live through to day 2, and no scum have been lynched, then you should kill me immediately. But I'm telling you, right now, that I WILL tunnel scum today.

[Dr Pants]

btw, if you find you and someone within your group have similar thoughts about someone external to the group, then one of you is likely scum

How is this even?

This just looks like more Town v Town pitfight fodder.

you have to lynch within your group, you probably have scum there, why assume otherwise

[Dr Pants]

What I don't get is why Espresso self voted, after I (wrongly I guess) told him that it wasn't a legal vote. Was he trying to be funny? Additionally, he's playing highly aggressive, which is a complete change from the game I just finished with him.

My vote is not going to change from Maru. I'm basically convinced he's scum at this point.

[Dr Pants]

^this man is scum, and should be lynched by his group

[Dr Pants]

I leave the decision to you, since its your group

that being, I disapprove of a lynch on a player who has yet to post. a policy lynch in this setup is a waste of a good opportunity.

[Dr Pants]

my specific issue with Espresso this game is that he's being very opportunistic. Given what I've seen from him, as town I would expect him to be much more paranoid of the people within his group than he currently is.

pedit: Maru is scum, trust me on this one

[Dr Pants]

@ espresso: while this may be true, you can't use it as an excuse for playing in a way that shows a scummy motivation.

for example: if you are town, you know that theirs a high chance that you have scum in your group. Thus, you'd want to focus on lynch the single best person from your group. But you've decided very quickly that Salamance is town, and that you should lynch the guy who hasn't posted. Additionally, all of your focus has been on me, and I am not within your group. Essentially, you are doing "fake scumhunting" by pushing me when you can not vote for me, and choosing to lynch a person who has no posts while not examining Salamance.

@sns: you've said N_M looks better to you as of late. Why is your vote still there? what do you like about Naz?

[Dr Pants]

*focus on lynching

[Dr Pants]

mmk

[Dr Pants]

for now though

UNVOTE:

consider my vote still on Maru, however I don't want this day to end this quickly. No real work has gone into the Ilama group yet, and I want to hear more from Naz and N_M as well.


pedit: if you've been thinking Salamance scum, why are trying to end the day this quickly? and we ALL need to hear it, even if we have no input for today, since it becomes very relevant tomorrow

[Dr Pants]

you are more likely town

espresso is more likely scum

reasoning: by putting your vote on AC, you direct what kind of votes espresso can take. Since you haven't hunted Espresso, you make it hard for him to fake a case on you if you are town and he is scum. The fact that he sheeped you instantly and said "day ends when huckleberry lynches" it looks like he wanted to get a quick mislynch while remaining neutral to you. The fact that he also has said that he thinks your group is the group without scum strengthens this read.

[Dr Pants]

4)Good shot? There's a one in three chance that there isn't even a scum within our group.

btw, if you find you and someone within your group have similar thoughts about someone external to the group, then one of you is likely scum

How is this even?

This just looks like more Town v Town pitfight fodder.

evidence of my claim

[Dr Pants]

in essence, he wants to mislynch within the group while trying to prevent you from tunneling him tomorrow. He opts to instead "hunt scum" within the other groups.

pedit: yes, espresso scum slipped, ggwp

[Dr Pants]

I shall now spam lol faces:



that is all

[Dr Pants]

no but you saying that tomorrow you'll lynch salamance is, because it means you know that AC is a mislynch

pedit: what sns said

[Dr Pants]

course now we have to see if your 3rd member ever shows up

[Dr Pants]

I swear to fucking god I'm not town.

Wut.

I love this fucking game

[Dr Pants]

and with that you've cemented yourself as scum

if you were town, you'd be at least suspicious of Salamance right now, if not outright screaming for his lynch

[Dr Pants]

In short, scum avoids the gambit, town is attracted to it.

Wait, are you claiming your selfvote day 1 was a gambit to get town to react? Really? Did you think that all out before posting or was it an afterthought?

yes. given that I've played with maru once before and with xay multiple times, I figured it would be the quickest way to get a read on them. I planned it out before the game had started, when I saw from the initial game that self votes did not count (although they apparently do in this game). Given that I only needed to read 2 players, it seemed like a good idea. In a larger setup I would never try something like that, since with a larger number of people involved it gets messy.

[Dr Pants]

@Dr Pants How did you plan that self vote reaction test for Maru and Xay before the game started if you had no way to know the groups?

I would have done it regardless of who was in my group. It happened to be Maru and Xay, but I've played with Salamance, Espresso, you, Sns, and Aegor before as well. Additionally, I explained the generic thought process here. Note that it is completely independent of who is in my group:

here's my thought process behind all of this, if you think its wrong in some way then go for it but you should at least gather that I thought this through:

I self vote, and claim scum. In doing so, I rob both you and Xay of the ability to do and RVS vote.

Now, in cases where town claims scum and tries to get lynched, what is the optimal move for scum to make? If scum engages with said townie, they have to fake 2 reactions: reacting to the scum claim and reacting to the town flip. Additionally, spearheading a lynch against a player who pulled a gambit like that would throw a lot of focus and attention onto whoever did so. In short, engaging with a townie who claimed scum is a bad idea as scum.

Now, as town, if a player claims scum then the optimal move is to vote that person. There is no need to worry about the flip and any attention that may come form it.

In short, scum avoids the gambit, town is attracted to it. Since Xay's reaction was to say "uhhh no" and instantly vote me, I see Xay as town. Since you opened by scum reading Xay via PoE, I see you as scum.

Scum is much more inclined to play with their brains than with their balls. Xay was playing with his balls on page 1.

[Dr Pants]

note as well that I have not gotten a response on this from Maru

[Dr Pants]

I presently have townreads on both espresso and salamence.

did you not read the setup?

[Dr Pants]

4 dayz

ac, you have to vote someone in your group out. if you are town, then you should assume that sal or espresso is scum. because figuring out which group is the all town group is basically impossible, you'd have to be 100% on your reads, and at least 1 of your reads is currently wrong.

[Dr Pants]

Note the first quote, where he specifically mentions how selfvoting gambit helps him get a read on the two people in his group *because he'd played with them before*

Then in the second he says the selfvote was *completely independant of who was in his group* so it would help him get a read on people he HADN'T played with before.

I'm confused

which is it?

the theory is independent of who is in my group. the decision to do it was based on the fact that I have played with almost the entire player list

I dont get why this is an issue

[Dr Pants]

note as well that I have not gotten a response on this from Maru

I don't understand what you're wanting me to respond to?!?!?

you need to ask me something for me to respond to it!

k, well I gave you the reasons I have for scum reading you. I told you that if you think my thought process is off to say so, but you opted to not respond, say im scum, and then we did a useless alpha male thing.

You can think I'm wrong all you want, but I have no idea why you 180'd your position on me so quickly. To me it looked like you changed your mind when it became obvious I wouldn't town read you.

[Dr Pants]

well, I've been pretty open about what it is I'm gonna do. I like to post. I like having opinions on things. I can understand why you'd disagree with how I want to handle the setup. But I've been open about all of my reads, and my decision making process. I really don't get how I'm acting shady.

[Dr Pants]

VOTE: Maru

I'm happy with a Maru, Espresso, N_M pool.

[Dr Pants]

@Xay:
Dr Pants has just been overly 'look at me being town', as evidenced in posts 26 31 91. He hasn't actually done anything useful after helping this game out of RVS and has applied shit towntells/scumtells, as in 91 and the one on maru.

But most of all, everything he has done seems too deliberately thought out. Not in a town way. Even if his thought process is stable, it's one hard to follow and one that just feels made up beforehand.

Pointing this out: you say the only helpful thing I've done was getting the game out of RVS, but then you those particular posts as evidence of me being scum. I've said repeatedly that people can challenge my thought process if they think its screwy. That's why I tell everyone why I'm doing what I'm doing. If you think my argument for scum Maru is bad then you need to tell me why, because otherwise I'm going to assume my thought process is correct.

[Dr Pants]

But I think that the Maru scum read has merit. He town read me for my generic "x is proper town" posts, and scum read Xay for no reason. After I told him why I thought what I thought, instead of trying to talk to me, his "town read", about it, he 180'd his position on me. Additionally, as Xay mentioned, he opened with a PoE scum read on Xay, but when I became his scum read, he moved Xay to null. His positions and his logic are inconsistent.


non game related:
@Maru: Xay has been referring to you as "her", and I've been saying "him". I'm not trying to offend, so if I use the wrong pronouns then please tell me.

[Dr Pants]

^ you should explain your plan anyways

[Dr Pants]

^2nd

[Dr Pants]

I find Tiershift impossible to talk to

[Dr Pants]

Scum can't lead because they are scum, not town - they might attempt to lead but it is actually manipulation. Sala is coming off as earnestly leading. Pants is coming off as attempting to lead but is actually scum manipulating.

:/

It would be nice if you could show evidence or something, I'm getting real sick of this "Pants is scum because I feel like hes scum" nonsense.

[Dr Pants]

Here's what I'm seeing right now.

ac and Naz are the most worrying people outside of my group. And before you say "its because they think you are scum", listen to this:

This isn't some kind of crazy case that ties them together or anything. But, they are doing similar things that should sound of warning bells in everyone's head.

Despite accusation of "Pants is manipulating votes!", the original wagons that almost went through were not driven by me. The grouping of Not Mafia, Espresso, and Maru was one that each group had come up with on their own. But then something weird happened:
Both ac and Naz townread the entire group that was about to be lynched. Naz 180'd his position on Sns. ac has been townreading both Espresso and Salamance (??????).

Everyone should find it suspicious when someone says "I bet my group is the 1 without scum". Yes, this has to be true for 1 group. But since we do not know, and we have NO flips yet, WHY would anyone assume otherwise? The ONLY thing I can think of is that the person with such a mindset is scum, and is either going to kill the 3rd member of their group night 1 or is attempting to get town read by the third member of their group on day 2.

Anyone who is hunting outside their group but passive inside their group worry EVERYONE.

[Dr Pants]

Last minute wagon changes just seems really fishy to me

[Dr Pants]

Why do I need to act like there's scum in my group when I don't think so?

You have to vote someone out from your group. Townreading your entire group, and assuming your group is the special one, lets you as scum vote out a town player with

NO

backlash, either from your other group member or the rest of the town! It lets scum safely mislynch! Thats why its a fucking problem.

consider the following scenario:

Group 1 has players A, B, and C. Player B has a scum read on C, and a town read on Player A. Player A says his group is all town. The group lynches player C, and player C flips town. Night face happens, and player B dies and flips town. Player A can say "This was the all town group. I was town reading both my members and they flipped town. Scum doesn't want to reveal themselves within the other groups, and to make me look scum through WIFOM."
If player A is scum, he has setup a perfect day 2 scenario by town reading his entire group.

[Dr Pants]

Now, if the game was on day 2, and 1 scum had been found, then having a player suggest that they had the all town group is much less of a problem. But when people have strong town reads that clash with the actual odds of having scum in their group (2/3 chance of a 2 player group of being scum is VERY high) and no scum have been found, the assumption is terrible.

[Dr Pants]

^ very true. but if they are town reading their group, and scum hunting out of their group, then they are doing something wrong

[Dr Pants]

basically, what I expect completely is that scum is going to be trying to make the actual town group look like a scum group for an easy mislynch on day 2

[Dr Pants]

I have a recording session for the next couple of days so I'll have limited access.

If Xay changes his mind and I die before I can post, remember this:

basically, what I expect completely is that scum is going to be trying to make the actual town group look like a scum group for an easy mislynch on day 2

Because I can guarantee that this is the ideal scum play.

[Dr Pants]

I'll be back tomorrow

quickly caught up, nothing new to say for now

[Dr Pants]

ok, but where exactly am I "forcing towniness"?

The argument for me being scum is bullshit, because its basically "I don't have any real evidence that Pants is scum but I can feel that he's doing this on purpose because he is scum".
Its stupid.

As much as I think Pants is the scum in my group, I'm curious about a scum motivation for getting me lynched from xayzeck and how likely it might be. In a situation where most of the game is scumreading Pants, but Pants is scumreading me over xayzeck, IF xayzeck were scum, would it not be in scum's best interest to lynch me with Pants to get rid of the townier of the two town in the group of three rather than lynch Pants with approval from the rest of the game?

This does worry me, because if no scum get lynched day 1 and I live to day 2, I will be the lynch candidate. It seems fairly obvious right now. This is why I said that people who are scum hunting within other groups but town reading their own group are scummy, because scum is going to try to stir up shit within the all town group. This alone makes me want Naz and Ac out from the other 2 groups.

[Dr Pants]

[Dr Pants]

sorry for not recognizing your genius

[Dr Pants]

UNVOTE:

If Espresso, Maru, and Sns are all town, then I'm going to get easily mislynched tomorrow and we will lose.

I have a deal I'd like to propose. Naz and AC get lynched today. In return, I will lynch myself. Since both believe I am scum, and that they have the all town group, then this should be an easy choice for them.

[Dr Pants]

Additionally, this means that the easiest mislynch choice for tomorrow (me) is gone. People won't be able to hide under the idea that "my group is all town"

[Dr Pants]

I'll make it easy by hammering myself

This might be selfish, but I don't really care.
Worst case scenario: we've lynched the obvious day 2 target (me), and 2 people who would be the most suspicious in their groups tomorrow anyways.

[Dr Pants]

Xay has looked town. In fact, part of me doing this is I'm thinking that this group might actually be the all town group.

Both other groups are focused on this group. If scum is in a position to win their group no matter what, which is where Naz and AC are, then the best thing to do is set me up as super scum since getting lynched by Xay is unlikely. 3 mislynches with an easy target lined up for tomorrow. I like to think I'm good at this game, or at least I pretend like I am, but if we didn't lynch scum today then there's no way I could get out of being lynched.

[Dr Pants]

Additionally, if this idea is agreed upon, I'll self vote first and allow for someone else to hammer

[Dr Pants]

Remove the possibility of me getting mislynched on day 2 (high possibility) in exchange for the 2 people who are scum reading the hell out of me and doing more outside of their groups than in them

pedit: they do count, ISO N and you'll see that your self vote counted

[Dr Pants]

Pants, why AC out of my group?

Well, for one thing, if you were scum you would agree to let me do my thing. Unless your partner is Naz, but I don't see it. He's been perfectly fine with you being the lynch for your group.

Additionally, you've got "slips". You can't hide under the radar.

Q1: Are you town?
Q2: Salamance or AC?

Salamance is being a bit of a fluff, but his reaction to your "slip" was town. Additionally, he's only interested in his own group. He also has said that you WILL be the lynch. AC is being manipulative. He's fine with a lynch on you, but he expects you to flip town. He really wants me to be lynched today, despite the fact that its not likely to happen. Ergo, he's the scummiest in your group.

[Dr Pants]

Another question likely to be asked: Why do you not think either Sns or Espresso is scum? What was wrong with the wagons on them?

And the answer is that there was 0 external resistance to the push on either of them. Scum is manipulating the votes. They can stall the lynch when they want to under the guise that they need more time. If Sns and Espresso were scum, then where was the vote manipulation attempt to get them out of it?

[Dr Pants]

Scum hunting outside the circle is fine, but its not fine to ONLY scum hunt outside the circle. No one here is a scum hunting god. No one here knows which group is the all town group (except scum, obviously). So why are so many freaking people saying that they have the special group?

It doesn't bother you at all that AC will lynch you while having a town read on you? Because it really, really, should.

[Dr Pants]

also check this:

Why do people want this day to end prematurely? I could end it at anytime but we have over a week left.

Clock. Discussion. Is. So. Freaking. Scummy.

[Dr Pants]

Sal had a very town reaction to you when you "slipped". It looked like he thought you legitimately slipped. Where is AC's reaction to your "slip"? NOWHERE. In his town read of you, he NEVER mentions it. That makes Salamance's stance different than AC's, and makes AC's the scummy one.

[Dr Pants]

I dont, but a lynch on you was very likely and met little resistance. It would have been disastrous for you and your partner if you were scum. So unless your partner gave zero shits about losing you (unlikely since scum has day talk), your lynch would be at least debated.

[Dr Pants]

I dont, but a lynch on you was very likely and met little resistance. It would have been disastrous for you and your partner if you were scum. So unless your partner gave zero shits about losing you (unlikely since scum has day talk), your lynch would be at least debated.

IF Espresso is town, scum would let this flow.

IF Espresso is scum, he's lynchbait anyway for the slips, and any resistance to that would draw so much suspicion. You should recognize that, even if you think he'll flip town, if you redirect the lynch onto another town it puts Espresso in a bad spot, and the next day he's going to get mislynched unless he suddenly becomes the beacon of towniness this game. And mislynching tomorrow is far from ideal.

I think his slips are just hardderps more than anything, and I can't concretely say scum or town, though it definitely leans scum. The problem is, the way he reacts to his slips isn't something I'd expect from scum, so I'm slightly town about it. Did he cover up quickly and that well? Or is he really just town?

Scumbuddy would gain more out of bussing than helping to shift wagons onto someone else, me thinks.

The fact that Ac is scummy as all hell helps. Originally I thought that Espresso was just accepting defeat, but then his group had to go and town read him.

[Dr Pants]

Scumbuddy would gain more out of bussing than helping to shift wagons onto someone else, me thinks.

This is semi true, the thing that lets scum shift wagons is that they can delay the lynches. You saw what happened in Naz/Sns/N_M, N_M was the lynch for most of the day until Naz changed his mind. Time alone changes wagons, which is also why Ac's "what's the hurry we have a week" comment is super scummy

pedit: Espresso, when I say "I originally thought" I mean what I thought when you slipped. Obviously, I thought it was a slip then, but I don't anymore.

[Dr Pants]

I need to reread this whope thing at homeater but I won't be switching to Naz unless something drastic happens. And Dr. Pants, at what point did you think my vote from Naz was a serious intent to lynch. You keep pushing this but we've been over how that was an RVS vote and they immediatelty started attacking SNS there after.

I still prefer Espresso due to what Salamemence said and that weird unexplained vote, but I won't fight a AC lynch, his tentatuiveness to hammer after declaring intent was weird. I wouldn't mind giving Pants a chance to self hammer and see of he's bluffing though

If Naz and Ac do not get lynched, I reserve the right to not self lynch, although I still might.

[Dr Pants]

I will make a note however that Naz is a weaker read than Ac. If Ac is lynched and the group with Naz can give me a good reason as to why Sns or Not Mafia is a better lynch, I'll also self vote. I will not make this deal with Ac's group however, since he is 110% scum

[Dr Pants]

^my scum read on Ac is much stronger, and a large part of it is I realize that he is much more guilty of doing those things than you are.

You want me lynched today right? I'm happy to oblige, just help me lynch Ac.

[Dr Pants]

Its possible that there was scum on one of the lynched. But I don't really have a way of knowing, so I'd rather follow my reads.

[Dr Pants]

the problem in particular with our group Xay, is that strategically both you and Maru make sense as scum.

If you are scum, then you are town reading me while the other scum is getting the rest of the town to scum read me.
If Maru is scum, then the other scum is trying to get you to scum read me.

Or the third alternative, where we are all town and scum is stirring shit up.

[Dr Pants]

Trust my Ac read at the very least. Even with out the clock comment, he's still scummy as all hell. Including the clock comment, its a possibility that Maru or Sns was scum. A scum flip on Ac could point to this, but without any flips its harder to tell.

I'm ok with Naz/Sns/N_M sticking with Sns if Ac goes, I'll let them decide that though.

[Dr Pants]

yeah. I know, its pretty selfish.

but given how dangerous it is for me to be alive with so many people scum reading me, I figured the best thing to do would be to at least take down my top scum reads with me

[Dr Pants]

read through Ac's ISO and tell me what you think. IMO, he's a much better lynch than Espresso or Salamance

[Dr Pants]

Like I said, its possible but it relies on Ac flipping scum. It also could be Sns, which is why I'll let your group decide on it.

Additionally, I said I would self lynch if Ac got lynched. I plan on committing to this.

[Dr Pants]

then help me die by lynching Ac

[Dr Pants]

it makes sense to me, but when it comes to the naz/n_m/sns group I don't have anywhere near as strong of a read as I do with Ac. I'd like to see them go at it for a while and see if anything comes up

[Dr Pants]

I very much think pants is scum. I don't feel like I need to explain this opinion at this point because it has been heavily laid out throughout the thread, both by myself and other people.

Jussayin'

what was the point of this?

[Dr Pants]

you are a strange one

[Dr Pants]

Also, for anyone who thinks that Espresso is scum, he's rejecting a plan that prevents him from getting lynched.

[Dr Pants]

Yes. It was the plan since the beginning. And not just this game. Every interaction you have ever had has been preparation for this moment.

[Dr Pants]

What do you expect us to get out of this week? It seems we've reached a pretty natural conclusion to the day

by the time you made this post, you had made a single vote. It was on your second post of the game. You voted Sns and said "liking Naz more than Sns right now". You never expanded upon this read. However, you include a lot of points on scum game theory:

We should absolutely be hunting outside of our groups and I am wary of anyone suggesting we shouldn't.

This is a 7:2 mountainous game with a votimg mechanic. It is very comparible to regular game

Most of what you said can be said about any other game. I do not either, think so much of myself that people will sheep me, or, think so little of the others that they can't take others opinions and make their own decison. So I will be giving my reads and opinions on other groups.

Again. This just give scum an excuse to avoid relational tells. 7:2 is inherently scumsided, going in to a 4:1 (woth a conf town) tomorrow where we can't use any sort of associative would not be good for village's chances

And scum wouldn't want to lead? Can you explain what you mean a bit more please?

Scum aren't necessarily going to do what they should be doing and if he is scum he will naturally be more skittish and self-conscious about doing such things

And it was Not_Mafia, not Naz, that was pulling the "My group is all town thing":

Lol wtf. This game is hilarious. Getting the feeling more and more our group is the town group

Like Ac, he was pushing for action within the group of myself, Xay, and Maru, which seems to me to be more and more likely the

actual

town group:

Initial thoughts are that there is almost definitely a scum in Huckleberries. I lile Xayzeck, for the scumbutt I was thinking Pants initially for his seeming paranoia in RVS. Now leaning Maru, hated their opening and their Xayzeck read. Pants and Maru should be cross voting.

I'd still prefer a Pants lynch to a Maru one, I'm not crazy on either but it seems Pants is unlynchable for today.

Now for relational tells! This part is much more speculative, so if you only want to care about the top then thats cool.
Not Mafia is ok with an Ac lynch but would rather see an Espresso lynch:

The final group I have no concrete handle on, ac seems relaxed and natural so I'd say I prefer him to Sala but I also agree that regardless of what alignment Espresso's weird surrendering has come from, he is a WIFOM bomb that needs to be detonated pre-potenial LYLO

Not Mafia prefers an Ac lynch because he's "relaxed and natural". However, Espresso should go to avoid WIFOM. Note that this post was made

before

I had put any pressure on Ac. No one was scum reading his slot, so why did Not Mafia feel the need to bring this up?

The timing fits:
At the time of Ac entering the game, Not Mafia was set to be lynched, and Espresso had just made his "slip". The day could have easily ended there, or shortly after. But! What does Ac do?

Okay.

We have plenty of time til deadline so I am not gonna make a vote until I have solidified my reads.

Then, Naz moves his vote from Not Mafia to Sns in 324.
Ac's next post? His solidified list of reads:

OK
Dr Pants is still scum
Nazarene and Not Mafia are town, so snscompt1 is maybe scum / maybe town.
Salamence is town
Espresso I see as maybe town, maybe scum, but either way the ideal lynch candidate for my group.

Xay please vote for Pants instead of Maruchan. Like Nazarene said, everything Pants has done has been far too deliberate. And he's been subtly buddying up to you now, perhaps because he sees you're one of the few people townreading him.

I'm ready to hammer but I would like to see the Huckleberry group lynch change.

I want Not Mafia to be the lynch from his group

[Dr Pants]

VOTE: Dr Pants

A big round of applause to Ac, and Not Mafia, for confirming my suspicions of them.

Not Mafia, here's why Maru cant be scum: Scum wouldn't town read their partner as they are about to get lynched. Much more likely, scum town reads town as they are about to get lynched, and sets up another town as a goat.

Ac. You have the all town group right? Im scum right? Then this should be easy for you. Its a no risk proposal if you are telling the truth.

[Dr Pants]

Xay wouldn't hammer. He's been town reading me all game, and for him to change now would be ludicrous.

Espresso and Salamance need to vote for Ac.

Dr Pants' proposal on page 17 is ridiculous. I'd be okay with trading lynching myself in exchange for Pants - but lynching obvtown/better player than me Naz in exchange would be pretty foolish.

So Ac will do it but doesnt want it to be Naz. Good thing I changed my mind there! What does he say when he finds out I no longer want Naz? Is he still cool with it?

Okay. I am not self voting, simple enough. Everyone has Pants squarely in the town corner now so nobody wants to lynch him. If others want to trade me for him then I am OK with that - I am not a good player so losing me is not a major loss. I don't wanna let scum dictate the lynch though.

Turns out I was the one with the balls to follow through, and Ac was the one who was too scared. What's wrong Ac?

[Dr Pants]

Not Mafia, here's why Maru cant be scum: Scum wouldn't town read their partner as they are about to get lynched. Much more likely, scum town reads town as they are about to get lynched, and sets up another town as a goat.

Scum don't try to negotiate a lynch off their partner? Just because he's not doing what you view as optimal scum play in his situation doesn't mean anything.

Scum loves to bus. Scum hates to be the focus of a town lynch. Shouting "Dr Pants is scum, Maru is town", then having Maru flip scum, confirming me as town, would be a terrible situation for scum to be in.

[Dr Pants]

And what will be your reads if AC flips town?

If Ac flips town, Salamance is the best lynch from this group. If NM flips town, he likely has the town group. If both flip town, its probably Xay over Maru, but I'm not positive.

However, I am very confident in my read on Ac

[Dr Pants]

What has Not Mafia done that makes you town read him?

[Dr Pants]

Aegor, in DoctorPepper, this was the tell I used to scum read Clusk:

Don't like this Pasch wagon at all. Also HATE the way Espresso joined it

The scum motivation behind this statement is simple. You town read a player who is likely to get lynched, absolving yourself of responsibility for being on the wagon. You then setup a player who many people have scum read to be the goat for the lynch.

This is identical to what Not Mafia and Ac have done today. Knowing they can not prevent a Maru lynch, they call out the lynch as bad and set me up as the goat. Xay made the point that they never actually put out an argument for me being scummy, and its true. They instead opted to scum read me for "sounding forced" and "being manipulative", without ever actually directly pointing to evidence of these claims. Additionally, statements like this do nothing to actually change Xay's read on me or Maru:

Xay please vote for Pants instead of Maruchan. Like Nazarene said, everything Pants has done has been far too deliberate.

Now, you have done this yourself as well. However, since you are scum reading within your own group, a mislynch on Sns would fall squarely on your shoulders. Ac and Not Mafia have shirked this responsibility by town reading the people they are voting out.

I read through your arguments for scum Sns and town N_M. And there are problems with them. Your read on Sns is almost entire based on his reaction to Espresso:

I agree with pants though. Espresso, that post was ridiculously scummy lol. But then again townies make the scummiest posts.

This seems like pushing for a mislynch outside of the group while covering his butt when espresso flips town. This is especially true given sns' vacillation concerning espresso in the rest of the game.

Well yeah, but youre sucking pretty hard as scum.

Compare to 299, where espresso's posts may now come from town, conveniently after my other Head provided pushed against the hasty espresso scumslip scumreads (298).

Cant explain right now. As long as someone gives intent to hammer, I will explain then. For now, NM dies. Just trust me for a bit. I will explain before the day ends.

What possible reason is there to delay an explanation? I always find playing coy scummy, especially when it does not involve a roleclaim. Plus, this feels like a bad justification for voteparking, given that the justification was clearly present at the beginning of the day but we will obviously not hear about it until the day is going to end imminently.

Lolz. I slipped too. We're all scum. Maybe it really was just writing mistakes on Espresso's part. Hm.

While your town read on N_M is explain as this:

The Heads of the Hydra think that sns is a better vote than NM. The Heads' current townread on NM is due to his going against others' setup ideas and just doing what everyone didn't want him to do, i.e. he is not particularly concerned with his image. He also resisted pressure for quick decisions/scumhunting and has gone at his own pace. And was

casual

about it. Again, does not seem to care too much about being lynched because he thinks we are both town in a way that the Heads feel is genuine. This Head particularly likes his incisive questions, e.g. 181 and 258. This Head strongly prefers more active players, so this Head does expect NM to start producing more substantial content/solid reads and reasons.

Staying composed is not a town tell. I personally happen to be much more aggressive as town, and much more passive as scum. Saying that N_M is not concerned about image is not entirely true either, as Not Mafia's content lacks any ability to ruffle feathers in the slightest. Additionally, as scum it wouldn't matter if he was on the block since his partner could simply delay the lynch.

[Dr Pants]

well. fuck it then. If Sns flips town, then you should rethink your read on Not Mafia.

Xay/Maru, feel free to hammer at any time. There should be enough info from today to get you something.

if Ac flips town, Salamance is a better lynch than Espresso.
if Sns flips town, Not Mafia is a better lynch than Naz.

[Dr Pants]

yeah i highly support a salamance lynch if Ac is town, probably followed by a xay lynch

if Ac is scum, and sns is town, then Not Mafia, followed by xay

If Sns is scum then I'll eat my hat or something

Now if Xay or Maru could hammer, that would be nice

[Dr Pants]

I'll let Maru and Xay decide. If they want to cross vote then I'll vote for one of them, but not following through with this since I strong armed everybody into follow my reads would make me a bit of an asshole

[Dr Pants]

Nope, I want to give them control. It gives us more information depending upon what they do and how the flips work out

[Dr Pants]

that may be true. but I believe I have the all town group. And I'll trust my group members. so I'll let them choose whether or not I should stay alive.

[Dr Pants]

haha well play naz. well played.

[Dr Pants]

nah Naz was good. fuck though, if i had just stuck with ac/naz and strong armed my plan........ ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Dr Pants]

lol

anyways, thanks N for modding, i liked the flavor!

xay/naz you bastards! i'll make you rue the day!

[Dr Pants]

you ruined my 100% win rate

[Dr Pants]

you ruined my 100% win rate

because you suuuuuuck <3

meanie