Mini 441 - Flavourless Mafia. Game Over!

[xyzzy]

Oh yeah! The game started!

Random

Vote: Yakult

[xyzzy]

Vote: Primate

, because monkeys are scary.

Indeed. Especially fiberglass monkeys; they're a nightmarish thing!

[xyzzy]

Vote: xyzzy

for having a horrible name.

Unvote
OMGUS Vote: Streeflo

It's an excellent name!

[xyzzy]

I'm tempted to vote for Primate; lynch all liars.

But he seems safe, so I'll keep my OMGUs for now.

[xyzzy]

He seems to be working for the good of the town, even though it may be risky. In the end, his debate with undo could be very helpful.

But, then again, if he's scum, he would know the risk better, which hurts his credibility...

What to do... what to do.

[b[Unvote
Vote: Primate[/b]

[xyzzy]

Erm... that should be

Unvote
Vote: Primate

[xyzzy]

I'm suspicious of his debating. If he's innocent, he won't be bringing up bad arguments to accuse someone who currently looks very good. He's acting suspiciously around undo, for pretty pointless reasons.

My seeming hypocritical in my vote ("he seems to be working for the good of the town") was just me thinking aloud. I didn't delete any of the post because I felt my logic would make more sense if you saw everything I was talking about.

I'll quickly become very suspicious if Primate or undo turn out to be scum. Having used it in the past, I can say that despite it's general failure, WIFOM is a very seductive strategy; every time I've attempted it, it's been with the thought that maybe I'll be the one who'll do it right. It's a stupid strategy that anyone will follow, so I'm suspicious of anything that looks remotely like it.

OR it could just be a mafioso trying to get an innocent killed. I don't think Primate's trying to accuse anyone as an innocent; that's too dangerous this early on.

[xyzzy]

Aimee:

Perhaps undo is a special role, trying to release information without looking like it; he can't really say, "I really am a cop, and you're really scum!"; that would look horribly suspicious, and he'd be immediately killed by any intelligent scum.

[xyzzy]

How is a cop a non-standard role?

[xyzzy]

How were Primate's arguments bad?

I'm a strict believer in lynch all liars; he lied to get evidence, which only creates more confusion.

Explain your first statement. As for the rest, pretty much anything can be called WIFOM, so therefore if your later statement was correct you would be suspicious of almost anything.

No, not anything; but if Primate turns out to be scum, it'll either be an attempt at a quick townie lynch or WIFOM.

Why would Primate accuse someone like he did if he was scum then? He's drawing attention to himself uneccesairly; but it makes sense if he is innocent as he would be fishing for reactions, which can help find scum.

Perhaps it's a gamble, hoping that we'll think he meant to look townie by doing something scum would never do. It's a working strategy.

[xyzzy]

Maybe Primate is a cop lying about his investigation.

That would be about the stupidest thing he could possibly do.

He's been very vocal; cops should remain quiet until absolutely ready to strike. If he's not scum, I half suspect he'll be found dead tomorrow.

[xyzzy]

And by process of elimination, he's not a townie.

So, what is it, Bob700? Scum? Doc? Cop? If you're not dead tomorrow morning, you'll probably be tomorrow evening, so get out any useful information before you get killed. You've admitted to not having a special role; now you'll have to deal with the consequences. If you're town, speak now, so the Doc can at least help you get something useful.

Me and undo scum or masons? Laughable. If that's so, I've been predicting my own actions this whole time. I try not to dig my own grave.

[xyzzy]

Thought I'd clarify something: when I said (paraphrasing), "that confirms you're not a townie", I was talking to bob700.

Right now I'm reading the townie role sheet, and indeed, there's no special flavor text, something only a townie could confirm. Since bob700 clearly denied that, all townies would agree that he _is not_ townie. Whether he's a SK, or vigi, or doc, or cop, or mafia, or anything else, he definitely isn't a townie.

I'm going to check how many votes Primate has, then I'll probably vote for him.

[xyzzy]

Erm, nevermind, I voted for Primate already. *Sheepish grin*

[xyzzy]

Unvote
Vote: bob700

Wow, if you aren't scum, then you're... um, something not quite as scummy as actual scum. Like, a SK. Which is still pretty scummy.

...Or something.

[xyzzy]

What matters is not whether Primate did hurt the town; it's whether it was possible. That was an extremely dangerous move, and before it occured he had no idea what the results would be.

[xyzzy]

Also what Raffles pointed out:

I'm a strict believer in lynch all liars; he lied to get evidence, which only creates more confusion.

Which point it struck me, if you were a strict believer, then why didn't you vote Primate in the first place? It was this inconsistency that stuck out to me.

And what I pointed out:

I don't think Primate's trying to accuse anyone as an innocent

; that's too dangerous this early on.

and then

Why would Primate accuse someone like he did if he was scum then? He's drawing attention to himself uneccesairly; but it makes sense if he is innocent as he would be fishing for reactions, which can help find scum.

Perhaps it's a gamble, hoping that we'll think

he meant to look townie by doing something scum would never do

. It's a working strategy.

Xyzzy

, I asked you for an explanation directly at my last post. I would like to hear (read) your answer.

If I'm scum and I do something so incredibly stupid that it's a 99% scumtell, I can argue that, as an intelligent player, I would never do that as scum.

Basically, I've been saying Primate could be bluffing 100%. It's a dangerous move thaat no one would be able to predict.

[xyzzy]

If I'm scum and I do something so incredibly stupid that it's a 99% scumtell, I can argue that, as an intelligent player, I would never do that as scum.

You realize how immensely WIFOM this is right.

To which scum replies, "Ah! Yes! Of course. Since it's so stupidly WIFOMy, no scum would ever do it; therefore, I'm not scum."

[xyzzy]

...Any inconsistency in my opinion of Primate comes from the fact that my opinion of his actions changed. Are you saying I shouldn't ever think of possibilities beyond my original assumption?

[xyzzy]

The psychotic words are eating mah soul!

But I agree...

Hmm.

[xyzzy]

Hmm, what to do...

Someone hammer. He's proven himself to be a liar. What more do we need?

[xyzzy]

I posted naturally, it was just to show how this acusation had no sense

Your wording was extremely defensive. Streeflo wasn't trying to attack your question; he was merely answering it.

Isn't it you that wishes the day to finish a the second you arrived in the game, saying that we should lynch Primate because he had lied?

Of course you don't go on with the day when we have a good reason to lynch. That would be stupid.

[xyzzy]

And by the way, Vote: Xyzzy. More scummy then undo.

Why, praytell, am I more scummy than undo? I don't find either of of particularly bad, and I'd love to hear a reason. Or, are you just trying to get a kill on a townie? Hmm...

[xyzzy]

No, no, no, no, no.

LYING IS NEVER GOOD. LYING IS DANGEROUS, AND RECKLESS, AND ALMOST ALWAYS BAD. THE ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS, BECAUSE PRIMATE HAD NO WAY TO PREDICT WHAT WOULD COME OF HIS FALSE ACCUSATION.

LYING IS A TERRIBLE IDEA. MY VOIC HURTS, AND IT'S YOUR FAULT. THANK YOU.

[xyzzy]

Someone2's comments are insanely scummy.

FOS: Someone2

[xyzzy]

Indeed, Someone2's actions seem very scummy.

Vote: Someone2

[xyzzy]

(english isn't my first language and I'm not perfectly bilingual)

Excuses, excuses...

Then I saw that his actions were likely to be done by a cult leader, by a lyncher or by someone who can benefit from the dead of a townie and that wants to be sure he is one by asking a paraphrasing of the role PM.

Why, praytell, did you think this?

[xyzzy]

I checked the role compilation created by Mikeburnfire to see which role could be acting like Bob was.

Ah, yes, I forgot that everything Mikeburnfire is 100% accurate and should be used to make a statement about any game I play in.

I won't forget next time, I promise!

Okay fine, ignore my comment about the SK.

Why? Do you want us to forget about the SK, perhaps because you are the SK?

It was just speculation anyway.

You seemed pretty sure.

I'd rather kill off mafia than SK at the moment anyway.

What the heck!!! SKs are harder to find, and the payoff for lynching one is immensely greater!

Vote: Streeflo

[xyzzy]

...I always forget to unvote.

Unvote
Vote: Streeflo

Sorry 'bout that.

[xyzzy]

Geez, it was an innocent comment about the SK.

So you say.

Okay, a lynch on either one of them is good. I was just thinking the SK could kill a mafia during the night.

But a lynch on the SK is MUCH better. That increases the time to find the mafia, a much easier task.

[xyzzy]

Why did you change your answer? I wasn't asking for you to agree with me, I was asking you why you thought differently.

Big, giant major FoS: Streeflo

Sounds like you're trying to not look like the SK you are but ignoring the point.

[xyzzy]

Sorry for not posting, had connection problems.

Someone2, your explanation doesn't make much sense.

Also, Tuesday, the day I hammered Bob, there was only one post posted, so I thought the deadline would not be removed. That's why I hammered Bob.

Has nothing to do with hammering. If he was on lynch-1 at deadline, he would still die.

Vote: Someone2

I checked the role compilation created by Mikeburnfire to see which role could be acting like Bob was.

Ah, yes, I forgot that everything Mikeburnfire is 100% accurate and should be used to make a statement about any game I play in.

I won't forget next time, I promise!

Why the sarcasm? He didn't say

you

should refer to that guide, he just said that

he

did. Way too agressive.

FoS:Xyzzy

Mod:

votecount, please.

Although the word of an experienced player is often a good way to understand a specific game, it's a terrible way to figure out a game that said experienced player is in.

No analysis can appyl to every game; very few can even apply to multiple games.

[xyzzy]

I think you're being way overly aggressive. You took something small and insignificant that I said and blew it up into humongous proportions.

I could care less who we lynch today, as long as we lynch scum. Godfather would be nice though

You're trying to avoi9d the point, though. What you've said is inconsistent; it sounds very much like a SK.

[xyzzy]

Though- did I miss where MikeBurnFire is in the game? Who's his alias, if this is the case?

He's not; that's what's so ridiculous about using something he did for this game.

[xyzzy]

It's not about analysis. I looked at the said role guide (if I found the right one, of course) after the issue came up, and it only explains the different roles in the game, as far as I have seen. And what do you mean in "a game that said experienced player is in"? First, Mikeburnfire is not in the game. Second, why shouldn't something said by a player be used in a game he is in?
But that's not even my point. The point is the unprovoked aggressiveness in your post.

Oh, sorry, that should've been isn't, not is.

Otherwise it sounds kind of stupid.

"unprovoked aggresiveness"? So you're saying I should go easy on everyone, and let the mafia win? Hmm, interesting strategy. Let me know how that works out.

[xyzzy]

It appears like Streeflo is saying whatever he thinks will appease Xyzzy and get him off his case at a given point.

Yes, I was appeasing xyzzy. The focus right now is not on trying to find the SK and if I am the SK or not. The focus is on someone2, who has made some clearly scummy actions.

Holy crap, this is the most blatantly SK-ish thing I've ever heard.

Vote for Streeflo, unless you like having two townies die every night.

Wow. Just... wow.

[xyzzy]

I could care less if you think I'm the SK right now, I don't have the patience to argue with you.

someone2 screams scum at me, and he's flailing in an attempt to stay alive another day. Your last post did nothing to change my mind someone2.

Where is everyone? We need your input!

Mod: Votecount please

If someone2 looks blatantly like a mafioso, and SK is a first priority, why are we focusing on him?!?

Why don't you want us to focus on the greater threat of the SK?

[xyzzy]

Yes, Someone2 is most certainly scum, and we need to get rid of him, but if we get rid of the SK, we'll have more time to kill mafiosos.

If we can reduce the number dying, we'll increase our time to get rid of the larger target.

[xyzzy]

It's almost certain, from his actions.

I'm just as sure that he's the SK as I'm sure that Someone2 is a mafioso: as close as I can be without evidence.

[xyzzy]

Without being 100% certain, you mean. There's a lot of evidence.

Same difference.

[xyzzy]

Okay, I agree with you guys that SK is a larger threat because of the one more NK he has. However, it makes more sense to me to just lynch the scummy mafia out in the open and generate discussion about the SK than try and pursue it and end in a mislynch.

No; I find your actions just as bad as Someone2's and if you're the SK, it's a much greater reward. There's sooooo much more benefit to getting a SK. If we get the SK first, we can focus harder on the scum.

[xyzzy]

6 posts, a while?

It's on the same page, even!

And you can just check only posts by SC if you really aren't sure.

[xyzzy]

So, what you're saying is, you're scum and your partner is Primate?

That should help. Thanks!

[xyzzy]

Why did you investigate Aimee?

It would make more sense to investigate someone who looks scummy, but, no, you investigated the person who turned up dead! That's a little unusual.

And more importantly, why did you feel that it was better to lynch bob before we could be sure of his scumminess, when we could have waited and became more sure of another target, or have gotten more information? It's never a good idea to kill someone before we've even learned anything useful about them.

[xyzzy]

Catching up with undo's post up there.

You and Primate are scum. You say us you have an innocent result on him so that we believe you and we don't lynch him.

I don't think so undo, mainly because of that:

If you think I could be linking with Primate,just lynch me and you'll see

Upon reading that again, it sounds a lot like a bad attempt at reverse psychology, as if we're supposed to interpret it as:

"If you think it'll prove something about me and Primate, go ahead and lynch me, but you may as well not, since you're not going to find anything."

[xyzzy]

Well, Aimee looked scummy because in two posts she said: " Mmm, I'm unsure of Bob, I'll wait before doing anything" That's why I investigated her.

So being unsure of who to vote for is a scumtell? That's a ludicrous strategy! Lot's of people are unsure of who to vote for; are they all scum, trying not to vote for their partners?

Well, I have noything to do with the mistakes of our mod.

I have to say, that's the worst excuse ever.

There was no more discussion, like i mentionned multiple times

There is ALWAYS more discussion. It doesn't matter what situation the game is in; there is more to be found.

[xyzzy]

Interesting.

So, it would seem we either have an innocent Someone, or a much more powerful mafioso than we originally thought.

Personally, I still find Someone's actions very scummy, so I will definitely continue to pay attention.

[xyzzy]

One of them is probably lying.

I suspect streeflo, simply because he's been more scummy.

A lot of big coincidences have occured if they're both telling the truth.

If streeflo is a mafia member, then undo is almost definitely the GF.

I say we lynch Streeflo.

[xyzzy]

Why is that?

The GF shows up town if investigated; thus, by an insane cop, they show up guilty.

[xyzzy]

Why is that?

The GF shows up town if investigated; thus, by an insane cop, they show up guilty.

What does that have to do with him actually being the GF though? Since the premise of the 'undo is godfather' thing was if Streeflo were not, in fact, an insane cop but a scummer.

If Streeflo is lying, a teammate who would show up town is a good person to claim being a target.

Otherwise, someone could say, "Wait, no, I'm a miller! You're lying!"

[xyzzy]

You're acting generally scummy. You're acting more like a SK, but scummy is scummy no matter what scummy the scummy is.

(I just used the word "scummy" a lot...)

Yes, I am pushing for you're execution; I think you're the most likely to result in elimination of scum.

[xyzzy]

Streeflo was defensive upon suggestion that we consider his actions.

Ergo, scummy.

[xyzzy]

Oh, that's right, I forgot! I'm obligated to believe any claim, regardless of credibility/position of claimer.[/sarcasm]

I take any claim with a grain of salt; it could be truthful; it could be a lie.

[xyzzy]

Okay, so I'm "assaulting" claiming individuals.

I don't believe both of them. I'm more doubtful of Streeflo, and I find the claims unbelievable.

[xyzzy]

StallingChamp: Just found out why you're gone.

Think of all the nasty words your mother always told you not to say.

Now think of me shouting said words at you. Very loudly. VERY loudly.

Congratulations on being the biggest screw-up of a player ever.

Anyway, hopefully this game wasn't too ruined by his actions, and we can get on. Unfortunately, this completely changes the game. I half suspect he planned this, too.

[xyzzy]

I think Xyzzy could easily be the SK

-stuff-

Here some posts of Xyzzy where he's pushing for the execution( by jumping too easily to conclusions, like saying:"I'm sure 100% he's scum") of anyone
or where he jumps on bandwagons. However, because he pushed so hard on the execution of Bob700, I think he's not mafia. Also, if he were the SK, for example, it would be benefiting him to accuse someone else as the SK, exactly what he did on Streeflo.

I wouldn't make it that easy, obviously. I've only targeted a few specific people, all of whom I believe to be scum or the SK.

This is a bit WIFOMy, but if I were the SK, I would be trying to get people to forget about the SK, saying that it's more important to focus on other people. I wouldn't be confronting people for ignoring the SK. (In case it's not completely obvious, I've just described what Streeflo has been doing.)

[xyzzy]

You're bored by lack of activity?

Why? Are you wanting us to increase activity so that we'll lynch someone, so you can kill someone?

[xyzzy]

I'm very hard to convince of claims. I'll never believe something that isn't logical. Therefore, when Someone2 claimed, I didn't simply assume that it was the truth; I challenged it until it was... *ahem* proven.

I don't see the point of letting scum live another day. Streeflo's claim is bad.

[xyzzy]

If Streeflo isn't the cop, how can he know about the night 1 delay before my claim?
Personnally, I beleive Streeflo's claim because of that

You're assuming he doesn't have some other investigative power.

If I'm right and he's an SK, he probably has a few other tricks up his sleeve.

[xyzzy]

Yes, SKs don't normally have powers which return a result, but some do. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the SK does.

Also, unless I'm just being forgetful, it didn't say who killed whom. Perhaps the SK has protective powers, and a rather stupid vigilante killed someone.

[xyzzy]

As I said, the reason I'm not suspicious of Someone2 is because StallingChamp basically confirmed him.

And let me clarify: when I said "protective role", I meant a role merely intended to keep him alive, not something that helps other people. Perhaps 1 NK and nightly investigations, or something.

[xyzzy]

Nice, except that you said this, emphasis mine:

One of them is probably lying.

I suspect streeflo, simply because he's been more scummy.

A lot of big coincidences have occured if they're both telling the truth.

After StallingChamp *spits* made the announcement about late results. If you thought, as I did, that that announcement pretty much confirmed Someone2, why did you not say so earlier?

Because while I believe Someone2, it's possible that my predictions concerning the SK are actually backwards.

I believe Someone2 is telling the truth, but there's an extremely faint possibility that he's he's not.

[xyzzy]

However, before this point I naturally assumed I was Sane or Insane, because SC informed me that my sanity was not guaranteed.

that doesn't make any sense.

However, this is where I started guessing that I might have been Paranoid, because a Sane and Paranoid cop seemed more likely than a lieing cop claiming scum and an Insane cop.

Why? Cop is a very good claim for scum; you can produce correct evidence at any time.

Certainly you were not expecting me to suggest myself to be lynched? About you, I think you are town, that's all.

I think he was getting at the fact that you were putting everyone on a list of people to be lynched. Obviously if we lynch everyone, you'll be the only one left, and - what role is it that has to be the last person alive? (However, it looks more like bussing to me...)

What, now you are trying to move away the pressure onto me? In order to get people forgetting a bit about you?

I have to agree; he's been doing that this whole game.

[xyzzy]

No, I'm trying to get xyzzy lynched and get an early start on Day 3.

Are you trying to look scummy, or does it just come naturally?

You should never push for a quicklynch. Never. Never never never.

[xyzzy]

I'm here, I just have nothing to say. I put my thoughts on Xyzzy and my vote will stay on him for now

Not having anything to say = scummy

It hasn't been quick. The day is dragging and half the players aren't here.

(Must come naturally)

Quality, not quantity, Streeflo.

[xyzzy]

The day is dragging, but I don't want to lynch someone who isn't scum because we went to quickly.

But streeflo is still acting extremely scummy... I'll try and get a PBPA on him this afternoon.

[xyzzy]

Unvote, Vote Xyzzy

(Yes, I know. I'd like to see it perhpas move the game a tiny bit, perhaps.)

[xyzzy]

I'm pretty sure ya'll can figure out what to do now.

When I turn up town, be very suspicious of everyone (erm, besides me, since I'm dead) on that wagon.

Oh, and it was for reactions. I got some... interesting reactions.

[xyzzy]

I don't. You do.

Of course, my current thinking is that you and Fonz might be scumbuddies, so not literally you, since you're biased.

But meh.

[xyzzy]

So, yeah, pretty much lynch Streeflo, Fonz, and undo, and you'll win.

[xyzzy]

Self voting isn't scummy. Doing the absurd and watching reactions is an excellent way to catch scum, duh.

[xyzzy]

Holy crap, this

ended?

OBJECTION!