I don't really care what I look like when I have a clean conscience.CGS wrote:You fish for reactions and then look who acts scummy.
Huh? I didn't quite understand, sorry.CGS wrote:'Don't think I am scum because I am troubled! It's exactly what they want you to think! They want me to be troubled so people think I am scum.'
Well, weak or not, that was the reason. I've never finished a mafia game in my life, so I don't know if a killed person tend to bear a grudge on the people who caused his death. I don't like to make enemies.CGS wrote:Ahm. Sounds weak to me.
Agreed. This point is closed.CGS wrote:Anyway we get entangled in semantics here. I agree: non-random vote on Day 1 should be less questioned than non-random vote on other days.
Would you mind to explain better this weird logic?xyzzy wrote:He seems to be working for the good of the town, even though it may be risky. In the end, his debate with undo could be very helpful.
But, then again, if he's scum, he would know the risk better, which hurts his credibility...
What to do... what to do.
[b[Unvote
Vote: Primate[/b]
It's not my fault that I am emotive by personality.Aimee wrote:This is just the type of reaction that the town was looking for. A panicky, pressured post which just screams weakness
At least you are sensible.Aimee wrote:And undo already has lots of votes and I wouldn't want to add another to the mix, for the risk of scum hammering.
His post seemed to be unable to decide what to do, and in a previous vote he just mentioned that Primate seemed safe. Why change your mind all of a sudden? Could it be because bob700 and Cum Grano Salis both wondered what were your reasons were for thinking that?xyzzy wrote:He seems to be working for the good of the town, even though it may be risky. In the end, his debate with undo could be very helpful.
But, then again, if he's scum, he would know the risk better, which hurts his credibility...
What to do... what to do.
[b[Unvote
Vote: Primate[/b]
What's wrong with a second vote on someone on day 1? It gets reactions.undo wrote:I mean that, in random voting phase, anything can be used as a justification for casting a vote. When I saw your vote on yakult, I thought 'Hmm.. Why is he casting the second vote on a person, when we are in random vote phase and he can vote whoever else he wants? I'll vote him because I haven't got more suspicions and we need to pass random voting phase'. Don't you agree that random voting phase must be left as soon as possible?Primate wrote:Why is putting someone at -4 today on day 1 just as suspicious as -1 any other day?
Happy for you.undo wrote:I don't really care what I look like when I have a clean conscience.
You actually say that Primate did whatever he did in order to make you look troubled and thus more scummy. You in fact did behave scummy and now you are trying to blame the scums for making you look like that.undo wrote:Huh? I didn't quite understand, sorry.CGS wrote:'Don't think I am scum because I am troubled! It's exactly what they want you to think! They want me to be troubled so people think I am scum.'
Well, but that's the whole mechanics of the game. As Town, don't you want to promote a lynch of a scummy player? Won't you nightkill as Mafia? This argument is unrelated. Besides, we weren't speaking of causing a kill here, remember? You get confused in your own words.....undo wrote:Well, weak or not, that was the reason. I've never finished a mafia game in my life, so I don't know if a killed person tend to bear a grudge on the people who caused his death. I don't like to make enemies.
undo wrote:I don't know if a killed person tend to bear a grudge on the people who caused his death. I don't like to make enemies.
also mentioned that undo made "A panicky, pressured post..." It has already been established that he was simply doing it to provoke a reaction, something which he got. Otherwise, why would he have put a random vote against another player if he has a guilty cop result against another? And also, how is undo looking "very good"? He has been paranoid, overtly defensive, panicky and pressured. Not things usually found in town.xyzzy wrote:I'm suspicious of his debating. If he's innocent, he won't be bringing up bad arguments to accuse someone who currently looks very good. He's acting suspiciously around undo, for pretty pointless reasons.
Hm... No I am not.CGS wrote:You in fact did behave scummy and now you are trying to blame the scums for making you look like that.
Sometimes, people break relationships because of the most natural things.CGS wrote:Well, but that's the whole mechanics of the game. As Town, don't you want to promote a lynch of a scummy player? Won't you nightkill as Mafia? This argument is unrelated.
I mentioned killing as the extreme situation. When I said to Primate: "OK OK sorry! Don't get mad with me please. I don't want to distress anybody" I was kind of preventing.CGS wrote:Besides, we weren't speaking of causing a kill here, remember?
What do you want me to say? I knew something was wrong when Primate said he had a guilty cop result on me. I was right: He was lying. I don't like liars, and then he came with his WIFOMish argument ("Undo, do you think it a likely thing for scum to do, to come out with a fake cop guilty result result day 1?") so I accused him of being scum.Aimee wrote:I think undo needs to give a full defence.
Maybe. However:xyzzy wrote:Aimee:
Perhaps undo is a special role, trying to release information without looking like it; he can't really say, "I really am a cop, and you're really scum!"; that would look horribly suspicious, and he'd be immediately killed by any intelligent scum.
How is this scummy? As already said, scum don't want to trouble townies at this stage of the game, Primate was mearly fishing for reactions.undo wrote:You probably thought that, if you lied and said you had a guilty cop result on me, I would become troubled. But now I turn the tables on you, and you look the most suspicious person right now (especially with your new WIFOM statement).Primate wrote:can you please state how precisely you think I have slipped?
How were Primate's arguments bad?xyzzy wrote:I'm suspicious of his debating. If he's innocent, he won't be bringing up bad arguments to accuse someone who currently looks very good. He's acting suspiciously around undo, for pretty pointless reasons.
Explain your first statement. As for the rest, pretty much anything can be called WIFOM, so therefore if your later statement was correct you would be suspicious of almost anything.xyzzy wrote:I'll quickly become very suspicious if Primate or undo turn out to be scum. Having used it in the past, I can say that despite it's general failure, WIFOM is a very seductive strategy; every time I've attempted it, it's been with the thought that maybe I'll be the one who'll do it right. It's a stupid strategy that anyone will follow, so I'm suspicious of anything that looks remotely like it.
Why would Primate accuse someone like he did if he was scum then? He's drawing attention to himself uneccesairly; but it makes sense if he is innocent as he would be fishing for reactions, which can help find scum.xyzzy wrote:OR it could just be a mafioso trying to get an innocent killed. I don't think Primate's trying to accuse anyone as an innocent; that's too dangerous this early on.
What do you mean by this?undo wrote:Sometimes, people break relationships because of the most natural things.CGS wrote:Well, but that's the whole mechanics of the game. As Town, don't you want to promote a lynch of a scummy player? Won't you nightkill as Mafia? This argument is unrelated.
I'm a strict believer in lynch all liars; he lied to get evidence, which only creates more confusion.How were Primate's arguments bad?
No, not anything; but if Primate turns out to be scum, it'll either be an attempt at a quick townie lynch or WIFOM.Explain your first statement. As for the rest, pretty much anything can be called WIFOM, so therefore if your later statement was correct you would be suspicious of almost anything.
Perhaps it's a gamble, hoping that we'll think he meant to look townie by doing something scum would never do. It's a working strategy.Why would Primate accuse someone like he did if he was scum then? He's drawing attention to himself uneccesairly; but it makes sense if he is innocent as he would be fishing for reactions, which can help find scum.
xyzzy wrote:I'm a strict believer in lynch all liars; he lied to get evidence, which only creates more confusion.How were Primate's arguments bad?
Why would Primate quick townie lynch on day 1? 1 for 1 trades with the scum are usually better for the town. As for WIFOM, I'm guessing you mean that he's doing it to look town, and if so; see responce below.xyzzy wrote:No, not anything; but if Primate turns out to be scum, it'll either be an attempt at a quick townie lynch or WIFOM.Explain your first statement. As for the rest, pretty much anything can be called WIFOM, so therefore if your later statement was correct you would be suspicious of almost anything.
True, but if he's doing it to look innocent then doesn't that mean that it is fairly likely that doing so is a move that a resonably intelligent protown person might make?xyzzy wrote:Perhaps it's a gamble, hoping that we'll think he meant to look townie by doing something scum would never do. It's a working strategy.Why would Primate accuse someone like he did if he was scum then? He's drawing attention to himself uneccesairly; but it makes sense if he is innocent as he would be fishing for reactions, which can help find scum.
Too hasty? How so? We are simply voting who we believe is scum. But, at the -2 point, I can only suggest one thing. Roleclaim.undo wrote:I've already defended myself, I can't help it more. If you really want it, go on, lynch me. I can only say that you might be being too hasty.
It's not impossible to see two scums fighting against each other, one scum just have to understand what the other want to do ( distancing themselves in that case) without talking of that during the night. But I understand your point so:That's what I was getting at. If you can come up with any example of two members of a scumgroup agreeing to get into an argument the night before, then following through, I will concede your point.
Seriously, it never happens. Overly paranoid people just think it does. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Undo, I wasn't talking to you, but to Primate in that post.When I read that post ,it seems that you think that suspicion is against you, but it is not (in that post, it was not even a suspicion, but a fact).A mafia is normally trying to get every suspicion away from him while playing a game, so I think that you're mafia because you tried to justify yourself before having totally understand my post. A town would have seen that I was talking to Primate, but mafias don't care about the town, but just about themselves, so they are more likely to make that sort of mistake, because they do not care to understand everything. I know my reasoning is a bit ambiguous, but I'm doing my bestsomeone wrote:
As I know you're experienced in mafia games
I'm not.
.How can you be sure of that? Maybe Primate is a cop lying about his investigation. It seems that you know what's the role of Primate and you are sure of it. you can only be a cop or a mafia in that case( or a mafia cop)We know and it's established that he isn't a cop, as Aimee said. Now we only need to know if he is protown or antitown. I'm still not convinced he is protown (by the reasons I've just presented).
That would be about the stupidest thing he could possibly do.Maybe Primate is a cop lying about his investigation.
